S4 Eps 16: Tyler Skaggs Death Case & Paxton Trial Panel Interview

Speaker A: All right, welcome back to another edition of the Dirty Verdict podcast. I'm one of your hosts, Peter Taft, joined as always by Bill Ogden.

Speaker B: Thanks, Pete, for making me first.

Speaker A: You got it. And my junior associate here, and junior associate, Kyle Herbert.

Speaker C: I'm glad to be invited.

Speaker A: Thank you, Kyle. Um, okay, this is going to be a challenge called, um, do not speak until the other person's finished speaking.

Speaker C: Wait, what are you talking about?

Speaker A: Yeah, It's just a challenge. I'm not saying it's going to happen. Um, we'll see. Is Yvette a teacher?

Speaker B: She was. She's retired now.

Speaker A: Yeah, My mom, Yvette, she should have brought her. Brought her in for this one. She'd been good.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think actually, based on our pre convo, I think she's been like, not. Okay, well, I mean, where, where we started with who we're friends with versus where the. Some of the.

Speaker C: So we've already been talking for like 30 minutes off air and this might be the first podcast where maybe Bill and I just don't talk.

Speaker B: I don't know if I'm.

Speaker C: We'll just see how, how long we can go without speaking.

Speaker B: Challenge accepted.

Speaker C: Quiet game. Ready, set, go.

Speaker A: Okay. All right, We've got an all star, uh, panel of guests today. Our largest panel ever, I think. Yeah, we had Dan, Rusty and Erica. That was three, so now we have four. Congratulations. Record setting event. So, um, we're joined. I'll start over. Across from me, Laura Hollingsworth. And now and. And then I'll just say. And Dana Levy. Levy. And you guys are at the same firm, which is. There's several names.

Speaker D: Durham, Pittard and Spalding.

Speaker A: Got it. Okay.

Speaker B: I always said Pitard. I don't know why. I just like saying this.

Speaker D: It's more medieval.

Speaker B: That last, the last part just kind of riled me up a little bit.

Speaker A: And do y'.

Speaker E: All.

Speaker A: Is your firm. I mean, I know you do a lot of appeal work, but also trial as well and everything. Got it.

Speaker B: They, they. We've worked with them. They're fantastic.

Speaker A: Excellent. And I think our prior guest, Trey Barton, said he's working with you all on an appeal as well.

Speaker C: And to be fair, the idea for this originated from me having cocktails with Mr. Pittard at like 9am in Las Vegas because we were invited to a party.

Speaker A: Was that the end of the night or is that the beginning of the day?

Speaker C: I'm not going to answer that, but I'm going to say we were both invited to a party and then we were asked not to Go into the party.

Speaker F: Is this the pool party?

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: Was your shirt off?

Speaker C: They decided me and Mr. Pitter could not.

Speaker D: Weren't dressed appropriately.

Speaker C: We couldn't glow through the daylight, uh, at the pool party with our clothes off. And so they. So Pittard said. I said, I don't know. I'll go take a nap. And he's like, no, let's go get some cocktails.

Speaker B: I told you to get a full service.

Speaker C: That's right, A full service.

Speaker B: I told you to get a spray tan.

Speaker C: I know, right?

Speaker B: Should have got one.

Speaker C: They ran out of, uh, enough spray.

Speaker A: Okay. Also joined by Leah Graham.

Speaker E: Yes.

Speaker A: Of now the Sorrels law firm.

Speaker F: Correct.

Speaker C: Great.

Speaker A: How long have you been with Randy's firm?

Speaker F: Two ish months. A little over two months.

Speaker A: Excellent.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker D: Huh.

Speaker A: Very good. And Daniel Ditko, duo Dudco. Sorry. Daniel Dudko now best lawyer in Texas with the Kirker Garcia law firm. As of. How long ago is that?

Speaker G: Uh, two months ago.

Speaker A: Excellent. Okay, well, very good.

Speaker C: And real quick, so two of you guys are in Houston, and two are. You guys are all foreign. All right.

Speaker A: Yeah. Did Bill. Did you and Daniel go to school?

Speaker B: We did not go to school together. He taught me everything I know.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: I looked up to. To Mr. Duco. I was gonna say more than anyone, but Mike Seeley and Sarah Sealy, they were the only others on that level.

Speaker A: Yeah. He's given you some shout outs.

Speaker B: He coached. Coached me in mock trial.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Not just.

Speaker B: I still remember stories, too. You Pizza Hut. I remember everything.

Speaker C: Duke, we have some complaints to lie. Okay, we'll get to that after you

Speaker A: say something about Pizza, uh, Hut.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think he used to own one.

Speaker G: I owned a Domino's Pizza. Yes.

Speaker B: Same thing.

Speaker A: We learned a fun fact today is if you buy your client all new clothes and they work at a pizza shop, make sure they don't for trial, clothes for trial. Make sure they don't wear their clothes to the pizza place and then come to trial. They'll ruin them.

Speaker B: The rules you don't know you need.

Speaker C: They don't get that in law school.

Speaker A: No, they don't now. But if you watch the Dirty work podcast, you'll never make that mistake again.

Speaker C: So we want to dive right into this amazing case these lawyers handled. Or, like, want a little background?

Speaker A: I was gonna do. Yeah, do a little background. One thing we learned in our little prep is that was everyone involved in the Ken Paxton impeachment case.

Speaker E: Everyone but me.

Speaker A: Okay, good.

Speaker B: Well, we would have won.

Speaker F: Exactly.

Speaker B: We were.

Speaker F: I knew I liked you.

Speaker A: We Were. We were impeachment. Boyers.

Speaker B: Um, don't call us voyeur. Speed.

Speaker G: That is the worst word.

Speaker C: Today is the day of the primary. We should check and see if he's going to be our next.

Speaker A: We won't know until later.

Speaker B: You got to check on Briscoe Kane.

Speaker A: Lots of things.

Speaker F: So can I tell you. Can I tell you about the friendship that was formed between Daniel and Briscoe Kane? Every day, Briscoe would show Daniel his gun. Every day.

Speaker B: Oh, because he passed the law that you could carry it on the household. Yeah, and he did carry it.

Speaker G: And he let me touch it.

Speaker B: I went to high school. Yeah, we went to high school and law school.

Speaker F: He's a great guy.

Speaker G: He's, uh, a very nice person for his political leanings, which I don't agree with at all.

Speaker B: Same with Briscoe. We, policy wise, could not disagree more. But he is intelligent enough to explain why he thinks that the way he does. And I know that that's never going to change. And so we have great back and forth, but I can't let Kyle talk to Briscoe because Kyle's already been banned or blocked from every social media aspect.

Speaker C: I don't understand about Briscoe is he clearly just wants to go back in that tree and make fudge cookies, and

Speaker A: I don't even know what that means.

Speaker B: It means he's talking. He's calling him a Keebler elf.

Speaker D: Uh, he also knows him really well.

Speaker A: I mean, well, he's.

Speaker B: Could be.

Speaker A: Is he running for Congress?

Speaker B: Yeah, he's running for this. For the new district that they drew under the fair new non gerrymandered maps.

Speaker C: Well, I'm just glad we defeated racism.

Speaker A: Um, okay, so, um. Yeah, so y' all were on the. You guys were on the prosecution side of the prosecutors.

Speaker F: We never get to call ourselves that again, most likely. So.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: How did you guys get roped into that?

Speaker F: Rusty.

Speaker A: Cuz they were. They.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, yeah, y' all were.

Speaker B: None of you could say no. Not one of y' all said no.

Speaker G: Try five times.

Speaker D: I didn't want to. I was 100% from none of y'.

Speaker E: All.

Speaker F: Bill.

Speaker B: By. By the hour. What you say? 900, 500 flat fee.

Speaker C: Wow.

Speaker G: Oh, man.

Speaker B: How do you guys feel about call me to negotiate your next deal on an impeachment hearing at the end of it?

Speaker C: Feel good about having drawn the ire of someone who will be a sitting senator?

Speaker F: More than likely, I'm okay with it.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker F: Let's stand by what we did.

Speaker B: You couldn't have done anything else.

Speaker D: We did the right thing. And I would have did. Uh, Even knowing the result, I would do the same thing again. No question about it.

Speaker A: Do you all of y' all have a prosecutorial background? Anyone?

Speaker E: None of us.

Speaker B: Did any of y' all get badges?

Speaker E: We did.

Speaker B: They asked for them back. Yeah, for sure. I'm keeping that for the rest of my life. When I get pulled over, I'm like, oh, sorry there.

Speaker C: I'd be like, hey, take it. That's lame. You took. You stole your.

Speaker A: You kept yours.

Speaker B: Allegedly.

Speaker D: Uh, yeah.

Speaker F: This is great.

Speaker C: I'm sorry, Peter. Let's get back on track.

Speaker A: Back on track. So you guys are in the impeachment. We've covered that at length. Did anyone have any great stories? Did y' all have witnesses you were assigned to that did crossed or. We watched a lot of it, but I. I can't say I watched.

Speaker B: I think I watched every second, really.

Speaker F: I think Laura was the primary architect with Ross Garber of the impeachment rules and how different impeachments throughout history have worked and really, like, narrowing down. Here's how procedurally things should go. Um, Daniel, I think, had a great cross that had a lot of publicity with, um.

Speaker D: Um.

Speaker G: The HR guy.

Speaker F: No, the judge of the business.

Speaker G: Oh, what's his name?

Speaker F: I literally just escaped my mind.

Speaker D: Oh, man.

Speaker C: So, yeah, we're gonna heavily.

Speaker G: Oh, Dorfman.

Speaker A: That's right. What was Grant Dorfman's role?

Speaker F: Uh, he was working for the attorney general at the time, and so he was a theft.

Speaker B: Was he one of the ones that flipped or.

Speaker E: No, no.

Speaker B: Sign the letter or he's a n. No, no, no. He was a true believer.

Speaker D: He's a lieutenant of.

Speaker B: Of fiction.

Speaker D: But.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker G: Well, yeah, I think we.

Speaker C: Orphan heard the first TRO I ever argued 23 years ago. That's. He was wearing an Astros cap. He was on his way to a game, and I was like, this will only take a minute, Joe.

Speaker G: So you were at the old courthouse.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker G: With the holes in the walls and everything.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: With the, uh, robot dehumidifier.

Speaker G: Right.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: It was super fun.

Speaker B: You guys sound old.

Speaker C: We were old.

Speaker A: Okay. But, yeah, the. The. The case that kind of brought us together is the T. Tyler Skaggs case, and he was a pitcher for the Anaheim. I always say California Angels, because I'm.

Speaker F: I think it was Angels of Anaheim.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker F: That they rebranded into Angels baseball.

Speaker A: That. Okay. Which, ironically, didn't. Wasn't there a plaintiff's lawyer that owned them for a while? I thought so. Maybe that Was.

Speaker B: I think you're thinking of the. Of the LA basketball team and the racist.

Speaker A: Oh, that guy. Yeah. I'll look it up while m talking. But in any event, Tyler Skaggs was a pitcher.

Speaker C: He owned Golden State.

Speaker B: No, he owned the. He owned the. Not the Lakers.

Speaker A: The, uh, Donald something. He was a.

Speaker C: And that's how. Ballmer.

Speaker B: That's what I was thinking of. Yes.

Speaker G: I think the Angels are owned by Roy the Cowboy, what's his name. And then the Disney.

Speaker A: Yeah. And then Gene Autry, maybe.

Speaker C: Yeah, I'll look.

Speaker A: Because I was pretty sure there was a plaintiff's lawyer that owned him at some point. Anyhow, now they're called the Angels.

Speaker F: Angels baseball is how they'd like to be rebranded.

Speaker A: Okay. They play at a park in Anaheim.

Speaker F: Correct. They're the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker C: And we've all seen Angels in the outfield, which is an excellent film.

Speaker G: Is this.

Speaker D: They are not.

Speaker C: Yeah, there is a tomato.

Speaker A: Tomato, yeah.

Speaker G: Uh, are you thinking of the one where the guy has his arm broken?

Speaker F: No, that's a different.

Speaker B: That's Rookie of the year. But he's thinking of the one, I think, with. Was it something Glover?

Speaker F: Yeah, Donald Glover.

Speaker C: I think it's a Spike Lee.

Speaker B: Donald or Tony? I think it's Tony. Donald's dad.

Speaker C: I have no idea.

Speaker A: Too. While y' all are talking rap.

Speaker B: Okay, childish. Can't be anything.

Speaker A: So on a serious matter. So Tyler Skaggs was a pitcher for the Angels. He passed away under. Sad story. Under sad circumstances. So whichever one of y' all wants to take the. The. The factual allegations and we can start from there.

Speaker B: I love how they all.

Speaker F: We already knew.

Speaker B: Yeah, everyone's awesome. Everyone's looking at Leah.

Speaker F: All right, so Tyler Skaggs was a starting pitcher for the Angels. He was drafted in 2009, straight out of high school, age of 18. He had a. What everyone will tell you was a nasty curveball. Uh, he played for the Angels for a couple of years, got traded to the Diamondbacks, came back to the Angels around 2014 when he was connected with the Angels communications director, Eric Kay. Eric K. Was, uh, a long term drug addict, addicted, um, to.

Speaker B: What was his position?

Speaker F: Communications director. So he was the guy whose job it was to make sure that the players after games would talk to the media, would show up for meet and greets, show up to hospital visits. It was his job to get the players to talk when they didn't want to. And he helped his job. He got the players to show up to these events in a variety of ways. Um, he was the butt of most of the jokes. He was sort of the locker room clown. He would do a number of, uh, mildly to extremely disgusting things for money, to entertain the locker room and as Mike Trout put it, to keep things light.

Speaker B: Sounds like a glue guy. That's what we call Peter.

Speaker F: A glue guy. Yeah, Ish.

Speaker B: Maybe he's the glue that keeps the team together.

Speaker C: We've never called Peter that.

Speaker F: I think Peter would probably resent the comparison if he knew more of the facts.

Speaker B: No doubt.

Speaker F: Uh, but in addition to, um, keeping the locker room loose, keeping it light, Eric was the guy who could get you weed, he could get you Viagra, he could get you opioids.

Speaker B: Now, now switching to also Peter.

Speaker G: Well, that's smart.

Speaker A: Yeah, that may be true.

Speaker B: He's our Austin plug.

Speaker D: Yeah, maybe his name was the one redacted. Peter.

Speaker C: Literally the worst drug dealer ever.

Speaker B: He doesn't even charge you.

Speaker A: I report you.

Speaker F: Okay, so, okay, so in 2019, uh, late June, the Angels are traveling to Texas to play against the Rangers. And then the Astros.

Speaker C: Ask a question. Where was this young man from? Where did he go to high school?

Speaker F: Tyler. Tyler was from Santa Monica High School. Um, born and raised in.

Speaker C: California guy.

Speaker F: California guy.

Speaker D: His mom was the softball coach at San Monica High School.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: Got it.

Speaker D: Doesn't place.

Speaker F: And so late June 2019, the team travels to Texas to play a series against the Rangers. And then the Astros one night in the hotel room. As soon as they get there, Tyler goes to Eric's room to obtain what he believes is an opioid. It ends up being laced with fentanyl. He ends up dying almost immediately. Criminal investigation ensues. Eric K. Is ultimately convicted for Tyler's death. He's currently serving 22 years of prison. Colorado. Excuse me? Um, shortly after.

Speaker G: Colorado.

Speaker C: Is that where he bought the customer?

Speaker F: No, it's just federal prison. That's where he ended up.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah, they just signed.

Speaker D: He liked to be in California. He just. It's.

Speaker F: That's where he ended.

Speaker C: I didn't realize it was a federal offense.

Speaker F: And then we sued the Angels, uh, on behalf of Tyler and his family, asserting claims wrongful death, but negligent training, supervision, um, and hiring based on what we proved was it was known that Eric Kay was not only addicted to drones, but distributing to. Tyler was one of at least seven other players who. Evidence came out that he was Eric was distributing to. And we believe there's probably more than that, but. So our difficulty in the case was having to prove to a jury that, um, not only did the Angels know what was going on? Um, that, um, it was foreseeable that a player would ingest fentanyl and die from that, but that it was an error in the course of Eric's job description to, uh, provide the pills. And then we had to get over the personal responsibility aspects of. He took the pill. He was grown.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: He was buying drugs.

Speaker F: Right. And we were able to do that.

Speaker C: Was he buying drugs, or were they gratis?

Speaker F: He was buying.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: Kyle's always looking for a job that has free drugs.

Speaker G: He was buying in the sense that he would pay a little bit more so that Eric could supply his own habit. And so he was buying only in the sense that he didn't need to pay for it, but Eric needed the money.

Speaker B: I assume Tyler wasn't the only one on the team doing this.

Speaker F: Absolutely not.

Speaker G: 7.

Speaker B: I was going to ask, how did y' all figure out this?

Speaker F: So the criminal investigation and prosecution uncovered a number of people that testified during an Eric case. Criminal trial.

Speaker C: So, um, where was the criminal trial?

Speaker D: There were.

Speaker F: Fort Worth. Yeah.

Speaker D: And in the Northern District. The federal, uh. In the federal system.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: A tough spot to be in.

Speaker C: I don't like going to Fort Worth, let alone filing a case.

Speaker D: Now.

Speaker B: Stockyards are okay.

Speaker D: Jury came back in an hour and a half. Found guilty after eight days in draw.

Speaker B: 22 years.

Speaker F: That's a two years above, uh, the minimum, like, the mandatory.

Speaker B: And there's no parole in federal court.

Speaker G: It didn't help that the night before punishment, he was on the phone with his family, talking about what a piece of the family is.

Speaker B: Uh, the Skags family.

Speaker E: Correct.

Speaker B: Multiple that came in during punishment.

Speaker G: The prosecutors played it.

Speaker C: I don't know if you know this. They record all those conversations.

Speaker F: Yeah, he did not know that. And he had multiple conversations where not only did he say.

Speaker C: Well, his lawyer didn't say, by the way, the giant sign.

Speaker G: I was talking to his mother.

Speaker D: He knew it.

Speaker C: He just didn't care.

Speaker D: Didn't care.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: His lawyers advised him. He knew that he shouldn't have been doing it, and he did it anyway.

Speaker F: And in the course of the prosecution, at one point, Eric Kay had talked to the DEA and said, look, my. My supervisor, Tim Mead of the Angels, the sixth person in the chain of command, he knew about this. I told him two years before Tyler died that this was going on. He. Eric, told the DEA this. It got, uh, leaked to the press. And in one of these recordings, Eric said, look, I'll go back, tell the Angels lawyers, I'll flip my Story. I'll change whatever you need if you can get them to help me get out of this. None of that helped him on why are people.

Speaker B: Yeah, I could see that being not good on sentencing.

Speaker F: Right.

Speaker A: Okay, so one question. So this is a, uh, kind of a near and dear to, uh, me and my family. So it was a, uh. He thought. Tyler thought it was a standard opioid.

Speaker G: It looked exactly like a blue opioid. 30. Like a blue oxycontin. Uh, it looked identical.

Speaker B: Like, allegedly. I don't know.

Speaker G: We put him up on trial. You could not tell the difference.

Speaker F: And this is before the fill. The fentanyl explosion. So, like, the whole idea of fentanyl wasn't really.

Speaker A: Cause that's what you. You hear. It was an overdose on fentanyl. It wasn't an intentional overdose. He was intending to take a normally, uh, prescription level.

Speaker G: The evidence came out that he had never taken fentanyl before, never heard of fentanyl. There's no text messages. We had his entire phone. He didn't really even know that fentanyl was a problem. And this pill contained 100% fentanyl.

Speaker D: Now the feds are changing your house, the hundred percent. They're. They're changing it. They talk about it. Poisoning. Yes, because that, uh. To Danish.

Speaker C: It's not an overdose.

Speaker D: It's not an overdose. These players are asking for oxy. Right. If you talk to all of the players that were soliciting this from Eric, they'll tell you. We were getting oxy, and they had taken oxy, and they knew the effect it had on. They knew what they could take, and they knew why they were taking it.

Speaker B: Where's the team doctor?

Speaker F: Oh, that's a great question. Doc Milhouse. Doc Milhouse, um, was actually the person that we discovered most likely got Eric addicted or at least help, um, foster his addiction in the early years. So between. You cross him. So between, like, 2009, 2012, he gave

Speaker G: Eric K650 opioid pills.

Speaker C: Well, how.

Speaker G: How over what, Gary? 10, 2009, 2012, at some point, he gave him, um. Uh, there was like, five a day.

Speaker F: Yeah, it ended up five or six a day.

Speaker D: Three months, it was like three, 300.

Speaker G: Eric K. Had no medical issues? No, no, no issues.

Speaker B: Oh, he was writing the script for Eric, not for the players.

Speaker F: Right, right.

Speaker B: Correct. Oh, yeah.

Speaker C: So how did Milhouse find time to work for the A's and Michael Jackson?

Speaker G: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the. The system within the Angels organization was corrupt from the bottom to the top.

Speaker B: Wait, did you cross that doctor?

Speaker G: Yes.

Speaker F: Yeah.

Speaker B: And so the jury heard it. So does he still have a license?

Speaker G: He's still a team doctor.

Speaker F: How, uh, addictive they were.

Speaker G: So let me tell you a story about when team.

Speaker A: When.

Speaker G: So Craig Milhouse shows up to be to. To first cross exam.

Speaker C: Excuse me, Dr. Milhouse.

Speaker B: Dr. Milhouse for now.

Speaker C: But he didn't go to soft drink medical school to not be called.

Speaker B: No, he went to Puerto Rico.

Speaker G: He showed up.

Speaker F: He's legit, though. He was the doctor for the Ducks. The Anon Ducks, the hockey team. He was the doctor of junior.

Speaker G: He showed up for his testimony, and the lawyer met him in the hall and he had his tie was askew, his hair was all up. And the lawyer said, you look like shit. Go home. And the lawyer goes in there and says, he's not testifying today. I mean, that's. That's the team doctor to this day.

Speaker D: And then during cross right, the team doctor is. Is Daniel's talking to him about the 650 pills.

Speaker E: It.

Speaker D: He could not and would not admit that he was aware that that was too many or that was addictive. Like, it was mind blowing.

Speaker B: I got asked, uh, should I go

Speaker C: to medical school at Ohio State or Baylor? Does Baylor have a medical school?

Speaker B: No wonder Ohtani was gambling.

Speaker A: Who does the doctor report to in the chain of command?

Speaker B: There's really. I don't think there is. The medical board, I think is the answer.

Speaker F: You're giving them so much credit.

Speaker D: They advertise him in their media guide because they had published this beautiful media guide that listed all of their executives. Called them executives. He was advertised as their team doctor. But of course, as soon as litigation starts, they back goddle and they run from him and they run from every executive there. Those aren't real executives. They have no decision making. Oh, he's not the team doctor. He's a contract doctor.

Speaker B: Yeah, Bill. So I could go talk to him without counsel. Bill.

Speaker G: The favorite defense argument. He was an independent contractor.

Speaker B: For sure. For sure.

Speaker C: So who is the dirty verdict team doctor? Do we have Josh? Oh, it's Josh.

Speaker B: Listen, Josh, we're just. We're just way soft core compared to the Angels.

Speaker A: Washington Ho.

Speaker B: And then, oh, yeah, Washington Ho came on and we drank his.

Speaker C: He's, uh, our team pharmacist.

Speaker B: THC Seltzers. Super slow episode. Lot of Doritos.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: So, uh, Mr. K blamed his superior, whose name was Tim Mead. Were there a bunch of, like, texts and emails?

Speaker F: Oh, my God. The text and emails with Tim me were extensive. Um, not only were There a bunch of emails. Like for instance, there was an email from Eric in 2017, so about two years before Tyler died, where Eric is saying, you know, I've got my addiction doc appointment, you know, so like we knew, like there were emails all over the place. They tell a story. Right after Doc Milhous stops prescribing Eric K pills in 2012, Tim Mead tells a story about how Eric, uh, they were playing in New York. Eric comes to him and is having sort of what looks like a panic attack, I think is how he described it. And Eric says, I need help. I need help. I can't do this anymore. They take the Angels team bus in New York with Eric K. Tim Mead, and then the traveling secretary who's like the fixer, the John Clayton or Michael Clayton, M. Michael thing, uh, um, Tom Taylor. And they go back to the team hotel where Eric then explains, like, I'm addicted to these pills. I've been on them for a while. I need help. That's in 2012. 20, 2013.

Speaker B: What year did 2019.

Speaker F: So this is six years before, so. And then in between, it is clear that numerous. I mean, the HR person, like deleted a text message that she had where she's calling him what, um, tweaker, a tweeter tried to say that doesn't mean he was on drugs. You know, but like everybody in that work.

Speaker B: What does it mean? That's what that was the question.

Speaker D: There was a text message and I'm trying whether it was 18, 17 or 18, where Eric's now ex wife sends Tim Mead and the fixer, Tom Taylor a picture of Suboxone.

Speaker C: What's Suboxone?

Speaker D: So fair.

Speaker B: He's pretending like he doesn't.

Speaker D: Suboxone. What's Suboxone is right. It's. It itself is an opioid and it's used if you're an addict.

Speaker B: It's like methadone to help.

Speaker D: Um, and so she sends this picture and says, you know, this same, uh, he's. She's like, it's. We're back to the same, right? So she's sending this. By the way, we get these messages from Eric's ex wife.

Speaker G: Yes.

Speaker D: Because they're. Oddly enough, both Tom Taylor and Tim Mead have deleted almost every one of their text messages.

Speaker C: I'm shocked, surprised and stunned.

Speaker B: I know I only keep messages for 30 days for this reason.

Speaker D: Unless they're from Mike trout.

Speaker F: They like 2015, uh, Tim Mead had

Speaker D: every one of his text messages where he's helping Mike Trout get massages instead of Disney Trips.

Speaker B: Wait, was Mike addicted? No,

Speaker C: he's a national treasure dog.

Speaker B: But I agree.

Speaker F: In 2017, there was an intervention at Eric K's house the day after it.

Speaker C: If you guys ever do that to

Speaker B: me, this is what we're doing. Kyle, they're not real lawyers. We're all worried about you. Oh, uh, at least you had a

Speaker C: dumbest for me 10 years ago.

Speaker B: Why do you think there's so many of us?

Speaker C: You guys must be close friends. But I. No recollection of you guys at all.

Speaker B: Except for here in Loughton.

Speaker C: Thank you.

Speaker B: That's the Suboxone.

Speaker D: That's the Suboxone talking.

Speaker C: Okay, so it sounds like there wasn't like an aha, uh, moment. It seems like there was like a clear path with overwhelming evidence that all of these principles were operating. The full knowledge of what was going on.

Speaker F: Yeah. So 2017, there was an intervention. Tim Mead, his Eric K's boss. And then Tom Taylor, the team fixer, who, um. Offices very close to the team president, former team president John Carpino. Go over to Eric's house. His. Eric's ex wife, Camilla K. Testified at trial that. That Tim Mead goes into Eric's bedroom and comes out with baggies of pills and individual baggies.

Speaker B: I thought they came in bottles.

Speaker F: Well, not if you're distributing them.

Speaker D: It's weird how the drug dealers don't do that.

Speaker G: I'm.

Speaker B: Kyle knows. I don't know.

Speaker C: So there's an intervention and I'm assuming no changes after that?

Speaker F: Absolutely not.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: So what? Eric.

Speaker E: Oh.

Speaker F: Overdosed at Angel Stadium a month and a half or so before the trip to Texas where Tyler died. And they didn't do anything. They just said, oh, you're back now. Thanks for coming. Get back to work.

Speaker D: Two years after the vice president of the Angels confiscates six or seven small, individually packaged sets of drugs, there's no

Speaker B: such thing as a small pack.

Speaker G: Uh, you say there's no changes after the intervention, but there are a bunch of WhatsApp messages on the angel server that they never looked at, in which Eric K. Is trying to buy Roxies in 30 milligram. How many you got? Over and over in which the HR president said, maybe they're Roxy shorts.

Speaker C: I don't. First of all, I don't know if

Speaker B: there can be, but I really don't.

Speaker G: Whatever. That's what I said.

Speaker F: That was the street term for oxycodone. Um, they was oxy. Put an R, Roxy. And now.

Speaker G: It's.

Speaker C: All right, I got it. Interesting.

Speaker B: It's Like Molly. So it sounds like she's not a girl.

Speaker G: She's just nothing to see here.

Speaker F: Head in the sand.

Speaker A: Have innocuous.

Speaker G: Their defense was Tyler took the pill, right?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker F: And he's a horrible human being. And although we formally said they shit on him. And let me.

Speaker G: Let me say something very clearly.

Speaker C: Wow.

Speaker G: Everybody that testified, other than the lawyer, said Tyler was the nicest person. He was one of those guys that the lowest clubhouse employee said. He treated me like I was a great person. He listened to me. A waiter, busboys. Like, Tyler was the greatest human being. His family is the greatest group of people you've ever met in your life.

Speaker B: He was like 30, right?

Speaker F: 27.

Speaker B: God.

Speaker D: He's the kid that we all wish would be our kid. Like, he was a genuinely good human.

Speaker G: There. There are text messages they showed in depositions where they tried to accuse Tyler of having an affair with a woman. It turns out it was an 80 year old woman that he was just being kind to that was like a relative that was a friend of a relative because he was such a kind person. Like, he was just genuinely a good person.

Speaker B: Walk me through who got the production of these texts and who you ran to first and then how many high fives you did before you injured your shoulder.

Speaker C: Did you guys. Did you get like a production of like 30,000 documents and one of you started at one and one of you started at 30,000 and met in the middle, like. Like a noodle from lady in the Tramp?

Speaker G: We got no production from the Angels.

Speaker E: Right?

Speaker C: Really?

Speaker B: All thirds, all third, everyone.

Speaker F: For the most part, it was third parties. And then it was once we showed the Angels we already know these exist. Where are they then? It was a lot of work from Laura and Dana, making sure. Okay, we want affidavits from the top people. Artie, Moreno, Carpino. Here's the searches that we did. Here's what we went through.

Speaker B: Isn't that the best you're asking for? Artie Moren, Those affidavits?

Speaker F: Yeah.

Speaker D: Oh, we got one.

Speaker F: We got multiple.

Speaker D: Uh, because he deleted text, too, but at the same time, I mean, that was the. These guys, like the discovery road. Here was something long we never experienced.

Speaker G: 50 motion to compel hearings.

Speaker E: Really?

Speaker D: 50?

Speaker C: Why did it take 50?

Speaker G: At least 50.

Speaker F: Referee quit on us.

Speaker G: Our judge wouldn't do it, so he appointed a discovery.

Speaker C: Where was this case filed?

Speaker G: Orange County.

Speaker C: Okay. State court.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker G: And he appointed a discovery referee. Our judge did because it was so contentious. And then she eventually quit and we had to get another judge and you

Speaker C: guys did the classic send some discovery, let them lie, go find third parties to prove they're lying.

Speaker D: We had to serve over. So the Angels took the position that even though they paid their employees to use their cell phones, had a specific writ policy that allowed it, that they were not required to produce anything off their cell phones. So we had to pivot and we sent out, I don't over 50 third party subpoenas for cell phones to self. For cell phones.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker D: And, and we, we got, we got good stuff that ultimately really, I think that the high five you want to talk about was Kamala K. Yeah.

Speaker G: Eric's ex wife.

Speaker B: And she come to you all.

Speaker G: She was actually his wife at the time. We subpoenaed her and then she agreed voluntarily to produce her phone just to get an image.

Speaker F: She didn't like the Angels. She had an. She had an axe to graduation.

Speaker B: To be fair, not a lot of people like the Angels.

Speaker D: She would have been very quiet. So Kamala. Right, Kamala, they have three children. Kamala's primary concern, uh, through all of this was protecting her children. And so the Angels, they tried really hard to talk to her and by the way, to get her to sign an affidavit contrary to a lot of the public reporting of things that was happening. So there had been leaks from the DEA to, um, the press about things that Eric had said during his dea, and the Angels went out and sought out affidavits from his sister, his mom, um, and then, and then Kamala. And Kamala just refused. She was like, I'm not being. I won't be a part of this. And so finally, when we sent our subpoena, we were ultimately able. We just kept saying, look, we'll talk to you informally. We just want to know what happened. We just want to know what happened. And so she hesitantly agreed to sit down and talk to us. And I believe, honestly, I mean, Daniel had this very real conversation with her in which she was just. He was a real human and just said, we just want to know what happened. We want to know what happened in this case and what was going on. And that's when I think she started to realize we weren't the bad guys.

Speaker B: How long was the death to that call?

Speaker F: It was 20, 25 years. It was after the impeachment, so it was not.

Speaker D: Yeah, so what did.

Speaker G: And this is a woman that had to work two jobs. She was delivering FedEx at night so she could keep her kids from not being homeless.

Speaker F: And Eric was horrible.

Speaker G: And the Angels, who would Happily pay for Eric K's criminal defense later would give her nothing in support. And so she was, uh, obviously upset. Yeah, and she was upset because she felt like the Angels enabled her husband to do drugs and then. And then did nothing to support him or her. Like, her bank account was drained. And so she was upset. She didn't have vengeance. She was like, I just want the truth to get out there.

Speaker F: And not only that, she blamed the Angels and the stress of their seasons because they work very long seasons. Eric would work 18 plus hours every day during the season and the off season. So she blamed a lot of Eric's drug use on the stressors that came with the job.

Speaker D: And they knew about.

Speaker F: Which they knew about. They were there for the intervention. They were there along the way. And she just felt like they didn't ever really help him.

Speaker C: So what information did she give you guys? What was on the cell phone?

Speaker G: Just all of the.

Speaker F: Well, she gave us the baggies to me coming out the baggies.

Speaker B: It was his cell phone that she gave you?

Speaker G: No, she gave us, uh, first.

Speaker B: So she.

Speaker G: Because she was so concerned about her husband, she's constantly messaging the vice president.

Speaker B: She's constantly.

Speaker G: She's like, hey, he's at it again. He's doing it again.

Speaker F: How's it going today? It became so commonplace.

Speaker D: It was shorthand.

Speaker F: It was like, how's today going? And that was signed for. Is he using? Is he out of control?

Speaker B: And this doctor still the team doctor?

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker E: Yeah.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Until this episode airs.

Speaker C: All right.

Speaker A: Um, couple of things. One, who else was on the trial team? We haven't even talked about what the verdict was, but who's on the trial team? And what was everyone's role here at the table on that?

Speaker D: I'll start with Lou. The. So we had a really remarkable. We were four of a much larger trial team. Right. This case came in through Rusty. That's how we all got connected. Um, he was the lead lawyer. Then we had, um, a local council who've been with us from pretty close to the beginning. Bill Haggerty and his folks out of Orange County. Fabulous. I mean, they lived through the trenches of the discovery wars and then carried on into trial. And then a couple months before trial, we had another great, fantastic lawyer, Sean Holley, trialer, join us. And, um, was just. Again, these are all just phenomenal voices and trial lawyers in the room. And so that was to set the table of the group. And Sean had also a phenomenal team that Dana and I, because Dane and I. So when to pivot A little bit to what our roles were. Dana and I were the legal side, the. That. That. That kind of side of things, while Daniel and Leah did all the heavy lifting in court. Um, and we work with some of Sean's great lawyers, um, Kristen and Patty, who I could. I started literally crying on the first time we met with him because I was.

Speaker F: We've been so long.

Speaker D: We. It had just been. We. It was fabulous to work with these amazing, amazing lawyers.

Speaker B: Are parents, spouse and children beneficiaries in California. I can't remember off the top of my head.

Speaker G: No, no children. So he didn't have any.

Speaker B: Think, oh, yeah, that's a good law. California.

Speaker D: And because he had no children.

Speaker B: Oh, he didn't have any. Okay, I thought you meant because the statue was like.

Speaker D: But the point is, because he had no children, the parents actually had a claim in California. Had he had children, um, in California, the parents would not have a claim. And so we originally, when we filed our lawsuit, filed a lawsuit in California and in Texas for. And then we ended up, um, consolidating both by agreement in California.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: So you guys do all this discovery and they've like, no offers to like, screw you guys. He did it to himself.

Speaker F: Exactly.

Speaker C: Really? It was a zero offer.

Speaker F: It was 100. I mean.

Speaker G: I mean, we went to. Immediately it was an offer, but it would be. It's pitiful. I don't know how privileged it is, but it was pitiful.

Speaker F: It was insulting.

Speaker C: I mean, we. Only you would know if it's privileged.

Speaker G: Yeah, I don't.

Speaker F: It is privileged. And it was.

Speaker B: Don't say it.

Speaker A: That's the first time Bill has ever said that.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, okay, so getting to the ver. So the case was against the. Well, can I ask a question?

Speaker C: Was there. Yeah, just a minimous offer. Was there any sort of like, take or leave it off? Like, normally when somebody walks into a mediation and tells me, like, we're paying you 1700 bucks. So there's usually some cocky that goes with it.

Speaker G: So there was a tower. And the layer that would not pay in the tower. The lawyer for that layer was Jim was in our hotel. And so every. Every day after trial, I would come

Speaker B: in and go, that was a bad

Speaker G: day for you, Jill.

Speaker B: Wait, so.

Speaker D: And Jim would be like.

Speaker B: So this trial flew under my radar. Um, how long was it?

Speaker G: Three months, almost four, three and a half months.

Speaker B: I knew it was super long.

Speaker D: September 21st, we all flew home.

Speaker F: December 17th, 19th, 19th.

Speaker G: Just missed Christmas party season.

Speaker A: Okay, so the case of Noodle, the defendant Was the Angels baseball team only one? Only defendant. Okay. And then the jury, ultimately, what was the cause of action? Uh, I guess against them.

Speaker F: Negligent hiring, training, and supervision.

Speaker D: Okay, is anybody curious, like, course and scope.

Speaker B: Was there any med mouse stuff in California that kicked in shoes?

Speaker F: That was it. And then we never actually reached, um. The jury never actually returned a verdict because we got a question. We got multiple questions for the jury. But where things really started to pivot in terms of resolution was when we got a jury question that said, essentially, we brought it.

Speaker D: I carry this with me literally everywhere I go.

Speaker C: You wake up every morning and you're like, read, Kyle.

Speaker B: Kyle, read Kyle.

Speaker G: Read it.

Speaker B: Who's gonna have the honor?

Speaker C: Oh, uh, Kyle's gonna tease the honor and read it. I don't read good.

Speaker A: Kyle's now going to read a question by the jury that promoted.

Speaker B: Read it in a California voice, though.

Speaker C: We, the jury, in the above entitled action, have the following question. Do we, as the jury, get to decide the punitive damage amount? Question mark.

Speaker G: Great question.

Speaker C: There is no field for it, which I guess means there's no blank to fill that in.

Speaker E: Right?

Speaker B: Uh, was it bifurcation?

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker F: I got this.

Speaker B: So there's no.

Speaker G: No question.

Speaker B: I want to give them.

Speaker G: They were lucky.

Speaker B: Where can I give more money on this sheet that you gave?

Speaker C: So the judge hits the buzzer and says, we have a question from the jury.

Speaker G: Well, it's even better because all day, we had a day off Thursday. So this is Wednesday afternoon. All day long, we're getting questions about, what do we do about if this goes past Friday, what do we do all day long, just question after question about scheduling. So all of a sudden, the judge walks in, and she has this, like, crazy look on her face, and she's like, you guys better get up here. And we're like, what? And we're like, the schedule's fine. We figured it out. She goes, no, no, no. Come look at this.

Speaker F: And then she says, so the answer's gonna be no, but, like, let's see. And then she reads it, and then she just. Cause where we were standing, happens to hand it to me. I read it. I'm standing by insurance. Jim, like, the guy who won't fold.

Speaker C: You're like, jim.

Speaker F: And I read it, and I'm obviously, as a plaintiff, you're like, yes. You know, And I hand it to him, and he's like, thanks. And I'm like, jim, my pleasure. And he looks at me like, you're weird. And then he looks at it, and he's like, huh. Uh, okay. You know, and like, understand.

Speaker C: And then within 24 hours, the tower

Speaker B: somehow all of a sudden, the tower sort of collapses. Jim's out of the way.

Speaker D: By the way, we should have mentioned these towers were unknown to us. Correct.

Speaker B: Oh, you don't get that in Cali.

Speaker F: No, they are.

Speaker D: Oh, no, you 100% get that in Cali. It's a standard form interrogatory. And they sat through five different signed declarations by their CFO, who now is their president, Ms. Molly Jolly.

Speaker B: I'm taking these people's.

Speaker D: That's her real name.

Speaker C: Her real name is Molly Jolly.

Speaker D: Huh.

Speaker F: She married into it.

Speaker B: Actually, she chose that name.

Speaker C: She chose a weird profession to be. Molly Jolly.

Speaker B: Yeah. Her profession of covering up for killing someone. Yeah. Weird name.

Speaker D: Well. And the end she's saying that they had. I. What. What do we think they had? 11,15 million in insurance.

Speaker F: Very, very.

Speaker B: Oh, I would assume that ladder was way higher.

Speaker D: And then all of a sudden, a, uh, month or two before trial, we find out it's nine other excess guys.

Speaker B: I mean, we have a Lloyd's policy, the floor. There's no living.

Speaker D: Which makes sense because you would think a Major League baseball team have a massive potential liability would have like their

Speaker B: plane goes down like.

Speaker D: And these are all common policies, but by the way through mlb. So MLB in the background knows all this is sitting out there?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: All I hear is that Kyle and I can easily run a baseball team better than the Angels.

Speaker F: Amen. Absolutely.

Speaker D: And I don't have high confidence in y'.

Speaker B: All.

Speaker G: Yeah, 100%.

Speaker B: That's fair. Rule one, Bill, you're. Don't be drug dealers.

Speaker C: Bill, you're not even going to have to quit using drugs.

Speaker B: Yeah. I just became like, what The. The HR manager or whatever Eric's name. Eric's job was.

Speaker C: I'm the team doctor now.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: You guys, hold still.

Speaker F: You're in need of a cfo.

Speaker B: We all thought Cohen was a good fixer. No, you're the Angels.

Speaker C: So they send this question out and then did they ask for like, give us a couple hours?

Speaker F: I don't even think we actually even had to answer that.

Speaker D: It was the end of the day. It was 4:28. We did answer it.

Speaker F: We did.

Speaker D: And we was. We did the standard, you know, you

Speaker B: are not to consider.

Speaker D: Well, no, no. I mean, it was even more. Calcium is great. It's like if you determine punitive damages should be awarded, you will be deciding the punitive damages amount, if any, at a later.

Speaker B: I need. I need that to be a universal response.

Speaker C: I have that on. Do you guys all have that, like, on a set of T shirts?

Speaker F: We should.

Speaker C: We should.

Speaker B: Or somebody needs that tattooed on their lower back.

Speaker D: That's a great idea.

Speaker E: Good.

Speaker B: Good tattoo.

Speaker A: Who is the kind of lead negotiator on settlements?

Speaker G: It was a whole team of people.

Speaker F: Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker G: I mean, when you're talking about a

Speaker B: case that big, do they come to you with the number at that point, or do you. They ask you for a number.

Speaker G: I mean, we're getting pretty confidential, so just not specifics.

Speaker D: But we had. They had mediators.

Speaker C: Right. They.

Speaker G: That after that question, they said, let's call the mediators.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker G: Okay, so mediators.

Speaker B: Yeah, we had.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: You're two different ones.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker G: At the same time.

Speaker C: You should have just.

Speaker F: Who knew each other and had worked together and so, like, is that a

Speaker B: California thing where sometimes if it's a big case, bring them both to Navy?

Speaker F: I don't.

Speaker G: I don't know.

Speaker A: Uh, who pays for the discovery referee?

Speaker G: Both sides.

Speaker E: Both sides.

Speaker F: Did we split a 50?

Speaker E: 50.

Speaker A: It was very expensive, and they charged, like, a high.

Speaker F: A lot of money.

Speaker G: Former federal judge.

Speaker D: Okay, so through jams originally, and then

Speaker F: I think we switched to a different, um.

Speaker D: Yeah. Judica west second.

Speaker B: As we all do. As we all do when we find ourselves in jams.

Speaker C: So what did you guys settle the

Speaker F: case for the family is.

Speaker B: Wait, did y'.

Speaker F: All.

Speaker B: Did you ask for a number and open.

Speaker F: No.

Speaker D: No.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker D: You didn't.

Speaker G: No, but we didn't close.

Speaker B: Oh, you did close. Oh, yeah. So they were deliberating. What'd you ask for in clothes?

Speaker G: I mean, I can see.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's public records.

Speaker G: I. I said, look, Tyler's.

Speaker C: You did the close.

Speaker G: Yes, I said, Tyler's economic damages are 150 million. And then when I was going through the loss of consortium, the damage is a little bit different. California, there's not pain and suffering mental language. It's just loss. Consortium. I said, well, that's certainly worth more than a baseball contract. And so I basically asked for 400 million. That's fair.

Speaker B: Ohtani crushed that contract. It's not even close.

Speaker A: They don't have Gregory in California.

Speaker B: Uh, no, they don't.

Speaker F: Versus Jerry. And is.

Speaker D: It isn't rearing its ugly head.

Speaker B: Right. Or whatever's come after that. That's made it more confusing.

Speaker C: Interesting.

Speaker D: Oh, excellent. We brought.

Speaker C: Well, something else.

Speaker F: And then insurance Jim was crying in the courtroom.

Speaker C: No, you made Insurance Jim cry.

Speaker F: I didn't make.

Speaker B: The fear of calling his boss made him cry.

Speaker F: Yeah, Amen. That's what I.

Speaker B: Because his reserve was.

Speaker F: I have a picture. I'll show you.

Speaker C: I, uh. Every time I send a demand and someone calls me back and says, you know, my adjuster is really upset about that, this, I immediately say, I can't tell you how sorry I am to hear that. This is a tough, tough job. If you're adjuster, usually I know the adjuster's name. If Pam wants to talk, just the two of us. Not about this case, you know, just about the stress going on in her life. I don't want her to be too stressed out. You set it up, and we'll talk. And they're like, what the. What are you talking about? And I'm like, can't take this job too seriously. You know, life too short.

Speaker D: Okay, good. Oh, I was just gonna say. I will say.

Speaker B: I.

Speaker D: The. The. The confluence of, uh, the insurance, gym and the adjusters and all that was so bizarre, because I really felt like defense counsel wanted to settle this case.

Speaker B: Oh, 100%. Every day of trial. He was like, please make it stop.

Speaker D: I mean, he really. Earl. I mean, like, who was it?

Speaker C: So Insurance Jim wasn't counsel.

Speaker A: He was just.

Speaker D: Oh, no, he wasn't try. He was. He was just. He was babysitting his Towers decision. But the lead counsel was a, uh, gentleman named Todd Theodore.

Speaker C: Can you tell us Insurance Jim's real name?

Speaker B: Nah.

Speaker F: Insurance Jim isn't it?

Speaker D: I would have to know Jim.

Speaker F: Yeah, it might be James something.

Speaker A: I don't know.

Speaker C: So, Daniel, did you talk any more trash to Insurance Jim? I talked.

Speaker G: All of their experts stayed at the hotel. And so every time I'd see him in the lobby, I would be like, I can't wait to cross you today.

Speaker B: That's so funny, because there's so many hotels in Orange County.

Speaker D: You had a great interaction with Dan Duquette.

Speaker G: Dan Duquette saw me in the hall. He goes, you really got me on that one. When I crossed him, he goes, you got me.

Speaker B: Just straight up.

Speaker G: Yeah, straight up.

Speaker A: Is Dan Duquette the gm?

Speaker B: No, he was.

Speaker G: They hired him as an expert, but

Speaker D: former GM of the, uh, Red Sox.

Speaker G: He has other teams wild. He was super nice, though. He was like, you really got me.

Speaker C: Do you normally talk trash during trial? Because I never talk trash during trial.

Speaker G: Oh, I don't know if I ever stop.

Speaker C: Perfect. So we shouldn't hang out.

Speaker D: Loved it. I mean, Daniel waited until they gave him permission. Permission. But they really. I mean, when he would. There was the best moment, right? Well, one of the best. There were Lots of highlights. But Fennell. Fennell was great. Fennell. And Fennell's been finished with his threats? Oh, no, no. His cross. And then how, Daniel?

Speaker C: So tell us.

Speaker F: So this expert is on cross, and he has this email that the other side is trying to paint as he's saying candidly to someone he never thought would see the light of day. This is a house of cards. This case is weak. I don't know how I'm going to give an economic damages opinion.

Speaker G: That was their opinion in this case.

Speaker F: That's how they interact.

Speaker G: He used the term house of cards.

Speaker F: And he kept saying before he got passed, like, do you want me to explain what house of cards means? I'll explain what house of cards means. And the, um, defense lawyers, like, I don't. I don't want to know.

Speaker B: No, absolutely not.

Speaker F: So he sat down.

Speaker G: The very last thing that our expert said was, I can explain. And the guy said, no, I'll pass. And I said, I want to know.

Speaker C: I've looked. And the jury would love to.

Speaker G: And the jury laughed. Yes.

Speaker B: And they were like, please, the jury.

Speaker G: I'm still in a text chain with the jurors. So they're very good. They love us.

Speaker C: Interesting.

Speaker B: And tough to keep that kind of engagement that long.

Speaker G: So we had an alternate who was there the entire.

Speaker B: Pissed. No, no.

Speaker G: At the end, she said. She released her and she said, I wish I didn't have to leave.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker B: Yeah, I bet they're imagining.

Speaker G: But she was so excited to watch the trial. She's like, I don't want to leave. Like, I'm sad this is over. And she was an alternate, and she had to go home.

Speaker F: Well, and it's cool because the jurors were, like, on news broadcast. Like, they got interviewed by the press. They, like, you know, it's good for them, too. I think one of them is actually going to be in an upcoming Netflix special that's going to be about Tyler, airing in September. Yeah.

Speaker B: Are you any of y' all on it? Uh, because I can make some calls. I got some Netflix contacts.

Speaker E: Yeah.

Speaker B: After the Alex Jones case, I know a lot of people like that.

Speaker D: I will say, like, I, uh. You know, one of the joys that Dane and I watch, a lot of trialers, we love to go to trial, but we. I always say, I'm not going to talk to your witnesses. I'll talk to your judge all day long. And I watch these guys and what they were able to do over that long period because we had weird timetables. Right. We were very California Is very strict on, um, when the courtroom doors open, like, three hours. We were averaging three and a half hours a day. And these guys were able to maintain a consistency and a connection with the jury. And, you know, it's like their witnesses were remarkable in the way they handled them. And I will say I've said this, and I've told her the best direct I've seen in my entire career. And I'm an old lady at this point, and I get to say that was her direct of Mike Moran.

Speaker C: You're using a lot of pronouns and m. A lot of people.

Speaker D: I'm sorry, Leah. Uh, Leah Graham's.

Speaker A: She's right.

Speaker D: Direct exam of Mike Moran. Well, she had two that were phenomenal. Kamala K. She took Kamala K. The ex wife, Leah, to Kamla on the, uh. On direct. And it was beautiful the way she built the case. It was her, uh. And it was really, really spectacular. But Leah's, um, took a witness that didn't want to testify, didn't want to be there. He was a public figure. He was a ball player who had Right. Had to admit to taking illegal opioids. Um, and he. As at least my opinion was, he was as close as we were going to hear from Tyler's mouth as to why he took these drugs and what brought. What brought him to this place.

Speaker B: He testified.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker B: And you got a pro ballplayer to testify to committing felonies.

Speaker G: Well, ask her how she did it, because she met with him on the streets of Huntington, uh, Beach.

Speaker B: They're all the same.

Speaker F: Newport Beach. Look, Mike's a great guy, and he didn't want to testify, but he was a close friend of Tyler's. He was a teammate. He also received drugs from Eric. Kate. Um, he had testified at the criminal trial, so he had sort of already gotten the dirty, you know, information out there. You know, he confessed to all of this. But he had, you know, a rough time in the criminal trial, like it was. His parents found out about his involvement from espn. It's not an easy thing. His wife had to deal with secrets that he kept from her. So there was a. You know, and from his perspective, he's sharing a lot of very shameful, embarrassing information. He had already done it once. He didn't want to do it again.

Speaker D: We really didn't.

Speaker F: We probably could have subpoenaed him, but we didn't really want to go that route. And so, uh, it just was a lot of, like, Mike would say, let's. All right, I'll talk to you, but you can't take notes. You're not recording anything. So he and I would just walk around his, his neighborhood in Newport beach and just talk about what his experience was. And, and ultimately it came down to if the roles were reversed and he was in Tyler's shoes, what would he want Tyler to do? And he said, it could have been me. It could have been me. It could be my mom suing the angels.

Speaker C: It could be my bill on a different bank.

Speaker D: That's exactly right.

Speaker F: And that's ultimately what I think, uh, made him say, I got to make change. I got to.

Speaker B: If I don't know if y' all can disclose. But how much were y' all in this case? Expense wise?

Speaker E: Significant.

Speaker B: You go, um, because like I'm thinking California pricing on three month trial. You like, you have to think you're easy into.

Speaker F: Every deposition was in person. So like almost every deposition was in three or four days a week. Multiple. Yeah, more.

Speaker D: How many experts?

Speaker B: How's that?

Speaker D: How many experts did you take at trial?

Speaker G: So expert. Oh, at trial? I, uh, don't know, nine or ten or something.

Speaker D: Uh, you took four experts in one day.

Speaker G: Right. And so, but it's weird because in California all your expert discovery occurs right before trial. Right. So they're doing pretrial and I'm deposing experts every day.

Speaker C: So which hotel were you staying at?

Speaker B: The Beverly Hills, obviously.

Speaker F: Daniel Hotel. He found his favorites, I think.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker G: What was it? It's just the Marriott. It was the area. Uh, there's not a lot of choices in Orange county, just the Marriott.

Speaker B: No, there is. You just got to go to Laguna.

Speaker G: Right.

Speaker B: The Montage is great

Speaker F: for Orange County.

Speaker C: Do you take this? You take your family on vacation to the Marriott in Orange county and you're like, this is it, kids.

Speaker F: Now he probably does cuz he's got status.

Speaker B: This building built us.

Speaker D: But we did get to become m really good friends with the concierge at ah, the Marriott. He was a good, good guy.

Speaker F: And the people that run the Water Girl restaurant, big fans.

Speaker C: Did you ever go to the um, Balboa Beach Club?

Speaker D: Uh, I think so.

Speaker C: It's in, it's in Newport.

Speaker D: I think we, I think we might have. But it wasn't closest so that if it wasn't walking distance or doordash, we probably didn't do it.

Speaker A: What's the name of the town that the courthouse is in? Santa Ana. Because in some counties up there, there's multiple cities that will have a county courthouse. But that's where this.

Speaker D: We were originally in Fullerton and then our judge retired and, uh, did a handoff, and then we ended up in Santa Gray. Was incredible.

Speaker F: Super fair, very attentive, very decisive. Read everything. She was great.

Speaker G: Read everything.

Speaker A: You only had two judges over the course of this, correct? Because that's the one thing California is kind of known as rotating judges through a case.

Speaker F: No, we got lucky in that regard.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Uh, okay. So, uh, kind of winding it down now. Obviously, you got a huge financial recovery. Whatever.

Speaker B: For the family. That's it. For the family, Pete.

Speaker A: For the family. Yeah. Yeah. But also, as you all know, representing people that have lost loved ones, the families always want to know the money is one thing. Did I effectuate change in some way? So do you feel. I mean, obviously you can't see a lot of this, but do you feel that the Angels and maybe Major League Baseball, professional sports at large, have learned a lesson here? Do you think the message has gone out that you've got to do a better job? Institutional question after I finish.

Speaker C: Sorry, sorry, sorry.

Speaker A: Uh, if anyone's learned, um, as institutional control, which is the. The term the NCAA uses, you think that's been improved through this, uh, process? And then Kyle may have a.

Speaker F: A dumber question.

Speaker A: Another question.

Speaker G: So the. The issue is that because it's high publicity, the family was always questioning whether we were doing the right thing, because every time an article was posted, half of the comments were like, tyler's a drug addict. You know, there's no lawsuit. You shouldn't bring a lawsuit. Uh, over and over, are we doing the right thing? Are we doing the right thing? We knew we were doing the right thing. We knew what we were fighting for. We knew we were fighting for them. They got nervous that somehow the jury or somebody would tell them that we weren't doing the right thing. And so now for them, I feel like there is some closure to know that, yes, all along, all of that fighting, the depositions, all of the monotony, the constant fighting, it was worth it. Because now when they go to sleep at night, they know all along we were doing the right thing. As for institutional changes, I don't know. I mean, it feels like Major League Baseball was unhappy with the Angels, but nothing seems to have changed.

Speaker D: They've done nothing.

Speaker F: I do want to say, though, that I don't know that every team is like the Angels. I do think the Astros aren't.

Speaker B: For sure the Astros are not right.

Speaker C: But, uh, that was actually my. My question is, do you think this is a widespread issue of drug abuse or just. Just the Angels.

Speaker F: I Think there's probably that guy on every team that can get you what

Speaker B: you need pro and, and in college.

Speaker F: Yeah. And. Well, and not just in baseball. Like we uncovered evidence that it happens in the NBA.

Speaker E: Right.

Speaker F: Like there's reason to believe it happens in other sports as well. But I think there's always that guy that can get you that. I think the Angels were way out in terms of how extreme they let it get. Reckless. Yeah, I do. Thank you.

Speaker G: I, I think we don't, we lose focus of the fact that these are 18 to 25 year old kids who just want to stay up there.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker G: And they think to themselves, I'm invincible and I can take an opioid or I can take a steroid or I can take something. They don't think of the ramifications. They just know that they've worked their entire lives for this career that's going to last this period of time and they want to just stay there.

Speaker B: Baseball is unique because you don't need any college.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: You can go straight from high school.

Speaker G: Right.

Speaker F: He was 17 when he was.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker D: I mean, look, I believe this was sustained systemic failure. And I, I, this is my personal. After spending six years in this case because this, well, we're coming up on 7th, the 7th anniversary of his death on July 1st. But I believe it was systemic failure because you have, uh, I mean, tell me what you would do if someone said if you just played 30 games this season you can make 120 million at the end of the year. Tell me what you would do and what, Let me tell you what MLB has done. Despite the fact that there has been a criminal trial in which we know it is undisputed, seven Major League baseball players were receiving illegal opioids on one team. And then we got a civil trial in which the jury, we didn't get a verdict, but the jury was pretty clear that they were going to find them grossly negligent. Ask me what MLB has done. Zero.

Speaker A: Nothing is a union involved in this.

Speaker E: The union.

Speaker D: So you know what the union did? I give them all kinds of props. They passed. After Tyler died, they changed the drug testing rules because. Right. They the players get caught in a catch 22 and that was the problem before Tyler died because you have some states that allow. And I'm talking marijuana medicinal. Yeah, because I'm not even like, I'm not talking opioids. I don't think that the players union in any stretch would say, oh yeah, no, we're cool with our players. No, they're not but they, what was happening with the way the policies is they were becoming global. And so the owners, they wanted an out. And by the way, the number one example of that is go look at Josh Hamilton and what the Angels did to Josh.

Speaker B: No shit.

Speaker D: Yeah, they won an out. They want an excuse to get out of their contract so they don't have to pay these big dollar figures. And so the players union is constantly trying to protect its players. But after Tyler died, they said we want to give in on testing, we want to allow testing. So they allowed random testing of uh, opioids for the first time after Tyler died. And so I don't pretend to be the best expert on all of those negotiations, but I do know that they stepped up to, had played and took care of that. But MLB did and still to this day sitting here have done nothing.

Speaker B: Which is, it's weird because like the public Persona uh, during Yalls case changed completely from what's fentanyl to this isn't. This is an epidemic.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Problem. So like, you know, I think Donald Trump ran on, on the word fentanyl. Right.

Speaker C: Canadians are bringing it Venezuelans.

Speaker F: The changes that the Angels made, they took their um, their media guide offline. So if you sue them now and you wanted to do research like we did on who everybody was and what the hierarchy, you can't do that anymore. So they made that change.

Speaker D: Molly Jolly promotion.

Speaker F: She went from CFO to president.

Speaker C: Of what?

Speaker F: Of the, of the organization of the president.

Speaker C: Molly Jolly.

Speaker B: Molly, we'd love to have you on the show.

Speaker C: Looking for a sponsor for the podcast

Speaker B: and if the angel, if you want to come on, you will not have a good time.

Speaker A: Well, I think I know who to call if you have any, if you want to maybe find some information from the media guide. Maybe someone here. Um, okay, I've got a. The mastermind behind this is actually Dana because she has been the quietest I said a word. So yet someone. Something tells me she was behind the scenes kind of coordinating this.

Speaker G: Can I tell stories about. I'd love to brag on day. I love the. What they did like appellate wise, legal wise. But there was a night in which I had to cross examine their primary expert, the toxicologist. And Dana at 3 o' clock in the morning found the textbook that this toxicologist used in medical school that directly contradicted all of his opinions and sent it to me at 3am now this

Speaker B: is an appellate lawyer.

Speaker G: She could have just said I'm going to deal with the jury charge and all the rest of it. And she is sitting, sending me at 3:00am um, the textbook that she found online and paid for with her own money, by the way, so that I could cross examine, which turned into such a. A powerful cross examination that at the end of the day, he was still on the stand. They never brought him back.

Speaker F: He just disappeared. They said he'll be back on Monday. No, he wasn't.

Speaker G: He's still under oath.

Speaker F: And it was never.

Speaker D: Yeah, Pretense of accuracy.

Speaker A: So, Dana, how'd you find that out? How'd you figure that out?

Speaker E: Well, I. I kind of was researching and I figured out that he was full, uh, of, you know what. And so I had to kind of give something to Daniel that he could use that we could. Could get in. And so I went and found the textbook and something that their experts had relied on.

Speaker D: And so I kind of had a Dolph mission. Remember, you were looking.

Speaker F: I started out because we were.

Speaker E: We were doing expert discovery on the eve of trial. So we had that universal question of like, are we gonna try to strike this guy or are we gonna just let him go and make him look silly? Which, as an appellate lawyer is never the. It makes me cringe. I don't like that. Because it can go all sorts of sideways, um, and rarely works. But we were so close, and we didn't think the judge. She wouldn't have. We didn't think the judge was gonna strike this guy. So that's where we landed. And it worked out. I mean, Daniel did an amazing job.

Speaker C: Job.

Speaker E: And just.

Speaker C: Daniel is your greatest joy in life. Cross examining?

Speaker B: No, it was teaching. No, it's teaching, Bill.

Speaker C: Well, one of.

Speaker G: I said, one day you're gonna host the greatest podcast.

Speaker B: And here we are. He saw it.

Speaker A: So the guy was. Was he on cross when he failed to return?

Speaker C: Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker A: Never heard.

Speaker B: Uh, it's happened once before.

Speaker G: The day has to end at 4:30 sharp. I still had him. And then he was supposed to.

Speaker A: We had.

Speaker G: Thursday's off. He's supposed to come back on Friday. He never came back.

Speaker E: Right.

Speaker B: I wouldn't either.

Speaker E: He was like their star witness, remember? And they tried to squeeze you because they're like, he can't come back because he had some sort of conflict. And so they tried to play games with the timing of it.

Speaker C: I think the legal phrase for that is run away.

Speaker B: Get outside of subpoena power quickly.

Speaker G: When I say the textbook directly contradicted his opinion. I asked him the phrase out of the textbook before I showed it to him, and he goes, yeah, that's exactly what I did. And then the textbook said, doing this is widely inaccurate. You should never do it. It has no pretense of accuracy.

Speaker E: And. And he said, I never. And I. I didn't mean to have a pretense of accuracy.

Speaker A: That was his quote.

Speaker F: And that's.

Speaker G: Oh, really? At 4:25 in the afternoon, he said, I never meant to have a pretense.

Speaker E: I don't think I was trying to have a pretend.

Speaker C: I think that clears it up.

Speaker G: Yes.

Speaker B: On a side note, Paxton won.

Speaker F: Yeah.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker B: Oh, he did.

Speaker F: He did. Uh, great. We should redo this.

Speaker B: AP called eight minutes again.

Speaker G: You guys want to impeach him again?

Speaker B: I. I'll give it a shot.

Speaker D: I have some ideas.

Speaker A: Uh, how'd you find. Last, uh, word. How'd you figure out, though, that one part from the huge textbook?

Speaker G: She sent it to me.

Speaker A: 3 o' clock in the morning.

Speaker E: Yeah, I just went through. I mean, I knew what his opinions were, and I found the chapter, and then I just.

Speaker F: That was just one example.

Speaker G: No, no, there's, like. That is just one of, like, 50 examples. I mean, uh, my appellate lawyer stayed up all night preparing for. She would. I would come in in the morning, and she would be like, I found this study that came. This. This Guy wrote in 1920 or 1966, before, when he's a grad student, that directly contradicts his opinions.

Speaker B: I mean, over the actual witness wrote.

Speaker G: Yes.

Speaker F: Yeah. And to characterize them as just appellate lawyers understates their value. They were trial strategists, and they were involved, you know, pretty every step of the way. You luckily came in right before trial when we were doing summary judgments and stuff. And thank God, because the four of

Speaker G: us would drive home from trial every day, and they would tell us what we screwed up 100%.

Speaker B: Oh, I've tried one with them.

Speaker D: So I will tell you, Dana and I were like the kids when you get in the car with your parents, and I could tell you whether it had been a good day or a bad day.

Speaker F: Conversation in the car and.

Speaker C: So when are we all going back to Vegas?

Speaker B: California?

Speaker D: I mean, Booth. All right, who's got a plane?

Speaker C: Not me.

Speaker B: M. Oh, uh, yeah, y' all got

Speaker A: lots of Marriott points.

Speaker C: Yes, I have a ton.

Speaker G: Well, not as many.

Speaker C: Yeah, not as many.

Speaker B: You have three months straight of them.

Speaker A: Uh, well, thanks, guys. That was a. Yeah, that was awesome discussion.

Speaker B: Somehow the impeachment was secondary, right?

Speaker A: Yeah, awesome discussion. And congratulations on a great outcome for a very great work deserving family. Sounds like he was a great kid. And, um, nothing worse in life than losing a child. So, um, I know they were very fortunate to have found y' all and your big, big team and commend y' all for the expense and the time and the just persistence to go. Now, seven years almost from what y'

Speaker B: all need to hire a ghostwriter. That is a crazy case that deserves a book.

Speaker F: Sam Bloom. Write the book Sam or Netflix Special. I would say we hang out in

Speaker D: September every day, showed up and wrote what happened. So we have. We. I will say personally, we have a catalog of what happened every day.

Speaker F: And.

Speaker D: And he did a remarkable job. And it's sampling that he spent. He spent years digging.

Speaker B: He's Atlantic Athletic.

Speaker G: Athletic.

Speaker D: He's in this case, despite the fact that he was at the time, he was a. The. A.

Speaker F: Not beat writer.

Speaker D: He was a beat writer. And it was hard for him professionally.

Speaker B: Yeah. Because he's burning all of his connections to the team.

Speaker D: Not happy that he was doing what he did, but he accurately reported what was going on.

Speaker B: Don't introduce him to Mike Vrabel. Apparently, if you work at the Athletic, he's got something about it.

Speaker C: So is Michael upset? Is Michael Lewis still going to do the Dirty Verdict?

Speaker B: He's already doing. I think, uh, he's already doing it.

Speaker A: So.

Speaker C: Awesome. We were negotiating with him, and Michael Cryon decided to go with Michael Lewis,

Speaker A: and I think that was because Michael Crichton passed away.

Speaker B: Yeah, we. Kyle, this is like the third time we've broken this news to you on the show.

Speaker F: And among other reasons, the fact.

Speaker D: I mean, if there's a reason to come back. Yeah, it should be.

Speaker C: I can't be responsible for little details for every dead hack. Right.

Speaker B: And that's a crazy case, though. I. That is. I've tried some crazy ones. That's a fun one.

Speaker C: Wow. Yeah.

Speaker A: All right, well, thank you guys for joining us, all four of you. It's a real treat.

Speaker F: Thank you.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker A: And, uh, so I guess we know where to find everyone, y'. All. Which Yalls website?

Speaker D: Our website is DPS Law Group dot com.

Speaker A: Got it. Okay. And you're as sort of Law dot com. Okay. And it's Kirker Garcia for you. Okay. Uh, so find them if you want to do any kind of case. Obviously, there's a great team. Uh, so thanks for joining us. And if you like this, like it, follow, subscribe, LinkedIn, Spotify, Audible, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook.

Speaker B: We're everywhere.

Speaker C: Well, every. YouTube.

Speaker A: YouTube. Yes.

Speaker C: And I should point out, as a podcast, we are not currently using any performance enhancing drugs or opioids. This. This is just a pure, clean performance on our behalf.

Speaker D: So can I see your phone?

Speaker A: No.

Speaker B: I mean, you can see your ex wife.

Speaker C: Yeah, you can see it.

Speaker A: Yes. Uh, all right, thanks, guys. We'll see you next.

Speaker B: That was great.

Speaker F: Thank you.

Speaker A: All right, we probably.