Sandra Lopez: Delulu Soul Searching

Speaker A: I got my 360 feedback and one of my team members said, I don't know Sandra, she seems to be like a robot. And I took that to heart and I'm like, well, no, that I care. A good leader delivers results. But how do you become a great leader? And the great leader is the understanding that we are all humans. The importance of empathy. I know my ego was limiting me from finding true happiness and true joy and being able to ask myself at times when I'm making a decision is, am I doing this for my ego or I'm doing this for my soul?

Speaker B: Um, you're now listening to a new episode of Gratitude Through Hard Times. Gratitude instills humility. Gratitude removes ego. Gratitude helps empower the best in others around you. Our goal is to guide individuals and companies to practice gratitude attitude so you can live a longer, happier and more successful life. Get ahead of life with connection and purpose. This is Gratitude Through Hard Times with Chris Shambra. Well, good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen and welcome back to another episode of Gratitude through Hard Times. It's your host, Chris Schembra.

Speaker A: And.

Speaker B: And spring is really springing in New York City. It's, it's good to be with you all here today. You know, I'm so excited to see some of y' all loyal listeners back here for another episode. Some of my favorite moments throughout the week are when you email in your thoughts, your comments, your questions, your concerns of today's episode guest. Your loyal listenership over the last eight years has given us permission to lean into our purpose and bring pasta sauce and gratitude to all corners of the world. So it's good to see you, friend. Next time you're in New York City, give us a shout for all the new listeners here. Hello. How are you? I don't know how you stumbled upon our little corner of the Internet. Maybe you googled today's guest. Maybe this episode was shared to you, shared, uh, with you by a friend as a vehicle to say you matter. They see you. It's nice to meet you. I am so excited to get to know you every time and I over time and I hope that by the end of our podcast you click that subscribe button and join us along this journey. Take a look back through the podcast episode archives if you want and you'll see our eight year commitment to bringing on some of the world's great leaders just to share their human story. If you're looking for a podcast on go to market strategy or the new AI tool or any of that kind of fancy mama Jamma, you come to the world wrong place. But if you want a brief pause from going really, really fast, at scale, at speed to have a positive impact on the world bigger tomorrow. If you want to pause and just come into the present and just feel like you're sitting around the campfire or you're eating in a grandmother's kitchen and you're just learning about life from someone who's done it with experience and wisdom, you've come to the right place. Grab that glass of wine, grab that cup of coffee, whatever you got to do, get and just sit in a cozy, quiet place. And let's welcome a really special guest to our podcast. This is going to be a really human conversation. We know today's episode guest through a prior episode guest, Sandra Campos, who if you go back through the podcast episode archives, we did an episode titled how experience builds wisdom. Right folks? Wisdom. Big exact talking about wisdom. That's the same flavor as today. Today we have Sandra Lopez. She is a multi time exited executive, former CMO of Microsoft, advertising executive at some of your favorite companies in the world. She is an advocate of of Latina executives across America. She sits on the board of the World Economic. She's a co chair of the World Economic Forum's AR VR model. She has done a lot both in a profit capacity and a give back capacity for her community. Right now she's the CEO of her amazing company Ambi. Ambi Ventures. Partners with ambitious businesses at the intersection of growth and transformation through strategic, fractional, CMO services, advisory, expertise, investment, you name it. Her full bio, y', all is in the show notes below. It would take the whole episode to go through. She's done a lot of great things in life, but I want to skip through that and I want to say a quote that's on the front of her website, sandalopezinc.com you are always a student, never a master. You have to keep moving forward. That's a quote from Conrad Hall. It's also her personal philosophy. And whatever you're going through in your life, I want you to remember tomorrow can be better than yesterday. You've still got a lot to unlearn and learn and you just got to keep putting one foot in front of the other, no matter how hard it gets. That's the flavor of today's episode. So without further ado, let's welcome Sandra Lopez to the podcast. How you doing new friend? Let's go Ferrari.

Speaker A: Yeah, let's go Ferrari. Let's go. Lewis Hamilton. Um, nice to be here.

Speaker B: It's Good to have you. Why are we wearing Ferrari hats, by the way? What does Ferrari mean to you? The spirit of it.

Speaker A: You know, for me, when I look at, um, well, F1 as a whole, it's the notion of the importance of teamwork across all elements. And so for. So that I always use as a reference when I talk to my own teams in terms of how they all have to work together and the milliseconds actually count. And then specifically, Lewis Hamilton is my driver. I believe that, you know, when I speak to people, having a purpose doesn't only mean showing up to work and delivering the purpose of the company's mission, but also being able to give back to society at large and contributing. And Lewis does that both on the track and off the track. And that, to me, is a person that I admire and inspire. And I'm inspired by him every single day. And so I had to change my Mercedes hat to, uh, Ferrari. And so. Let's go.

Speaker B: Let's go. Luis, if you're watching this, cheers. Thank you for all you do. Long live Roscoe. We love you, pal. This is awesome. So, Sandra, we have to take a quick detour into the topic of gratitude before we actually dive into the main meat of today's conversation. For all the new listeners out there, my story is simple. I invented a bowl of pasta sauce 10 years ago, fed it to people, and halfway through that dinner party in my 350 square foot studio apartment on the Upper west side of Manhattan, I paused the dinner. Fifteen people seated around the table drinking great wine, working together to create the meal. Halfway through that dinner table at 7:47pm Now a tattoo on my arm, now the name of my company. Now the moment that I dedicate my life to. We asked a simple question, and I'd like to add, uh, we've been asking that question every single day ever since. And so to kick us off, I want to bring us back to the feeling of the dinner table, Sandra, by asking you this one question. If you could give credit or thanks to one person in your life that you don't give enough credit or thanks to or that you've never thought to thank, who would that be?

Speaker A: That's a great question. And when you talk about gratitude, I reflect on, you know, I'm. I'm, um, 53, and I would say most of my lifespan was probably giving gratitude very superficially. And I would say I have to give gratitude towards Covid because in its real essence, it forced many of us to go inward and figure out how we're Going to survive and come together. And during that moment of time, I was also going through some things personally. And it's really, really when I stopped and thought about, you know, am I even very happy? You know, what am I doing? Yes, I was. You know, I loved my career, I loved my home life, but I felt like something was still missing in me. And that took me into a journey of self discovery. I went to Tulum and really begun to understand learning about who you are, you know, going back to your past, not only in terms of me as a little girl, but my ancestors and the, the trauma that continued along with me. And so I go back to Covid is what I'm so grateful for because that led me to where I am today. And I was just telling an executive just recently, he's like, oh, you know, he's, you know, they're trying to get to, uh, an exit and they're working really hard. And I said to him, I said, you know, I don't think life is hard anymore. I go, I think it's easier having fun. And a lot of that I attribute to the work that I do or whether I'm involved in like learning more about Kabbalah is trying to figure out finding peace and finding joy. And when I say joy, you can be happy, you can be sad, you can have the feelings, uh, which I go through that, but really trying to get to a place of peace and joy. And once you do that, I think life is just so much easier.

Speaker B: Cheers to Covid.

Speaker A: Cheers to Covid. How often do people say Covid?

Speaker B: I, I, I don't, I mean, I would give gratitude to Covid because expanded. Yes, we'll talk about that later. Sandra, I want to ask you, was there a specific moment where you, because I mean you are literally folks, if you read in the bio, it's like, yeah, uh, most powerful women in tech top this, top Latina top this, top that. Like, you are seen as a strong power woman executive in the workforce. Did people respond positively or not positively when you went on this new journey of self discovery, growth and internal transformation? Right. One of the quotes that you said years ago was the greatest gift I've given myself is to walk in my shoes and walk in my skin and know what I was supposed to get done in this world. But that scares a lot of people if they've not done the work themselves. Was there a moment where like, maybe there was friction from others on the front end and then it turned into them saying, like, I see it, I get it, I want It. This is amazing. Did any of that occur?

Speaker A: I mean, I think it's really hard because I could only share what people have shared with me. And the biggest lesson, it wasn't, I would say, kind of the before and after and the contrast and before I was taught, you know, outcomes at all cost. There's a specific way to show up. And even with my upbringing, you know, my parents and I also learned, you know, throughout my education that you, business is business, and you keep your personal life separate. And so when I became a leader for the first time, I never talked to my team members about what was going on in the weekend. People did not even know if I was married or not or if I had kids. I kept it very black and white because that's what I was told was the right thing to do. Until maybe two years into, um, my management, I got my 360 feedback, and feedback is a gift. Uh, however, at that time, I think I had a big ego. And so I was reading the feedback, and one of my team members said, I don't know, Sandra, she seems to be like a robot. And I took that to heart. And I'm like, well, no, but I care. I care about people. You know, I believe I have empathy. And what I realized through I went to my senior leadership, I had the fortunate opportunity. You know, I tell Intel, I tell people that Intel's such a magical company, and they invest in their employees and they invested in me from the transformation of being not a good leader. A good leader delivers results. But how do you become a great leader? And the great leader is the understanding that we are all humans. The importance of empathy, the importance of extracting. Xander Campus was talking about wisdom and wisdom and bringing humanity into the business environment, of which it's rarely. You're rarely taught that, or you rarely see it. And so what I could say is, over time, I always tell my team members and those that mentor me is the greatest gift that I get isn't my bonus, it's the little emails that I get and said, you know what? You inspired me to take a pivot in my career, or you inspired me to reach out to the CTO of the NFL. I never thought I could, but I did, and he's going to take a meeting with me. And so, you know, I don't get specific feedback, but what I do hear is that when I get those emails, I know that I'm making a difference because I'm showing up differently and I'm not getting the emails. When we hit our okrs and Our revenue goals, you know, yeah, we applaud, we celebrate as a team. It's great for shareholder values. But the emails that I get that have me, that I take a pause and I say to myself, this is why I'm here on the planet. It's those ones that. It's the human to human relationship. And somehow I gave them the motivation to take an action that they were hesitant to.

Speaker B: Holy guacamole. Can you share the first name of one person's email that's moved you recently?

Speaker A: Who's the first person? Oh, God. Um, yeah, I, I, um, I don't want to share the person's story specifically.

Speaker B: No, yeah, just like, like give a shout out gratitude to, like, hey, that mattered.

Speaker A: This woman by the name of Bev. And it's just recently. Yes,

Speaker B: cheers to you. I want to pause and double click on a few things because I think I was just. What you just said was like nine different mic drops. To all of those that are listening, first of all, think about this. Good leaders get results. Great leaders inspire people to do great things in their life. From a human to human capacity. Like, whoa. Like, whoa, Please, please hear that. Right? You can have the greatest growth and the fastest trajectory, and the people around you will still just call you a good leader. And that's not who they're going to give gratitude to 50 years from now. You got to be a great leader to get that. I think that what you said is that part of just doing this work is about choosing to show up differently. And the more consistently that you would just commit to showing up differently. Then the emails started flooding in to give you that gratification that it was like it was working. And every email that comes in, it makes you take a pause and realize, oh, my God, it's working. My invitation to you leaders out there is take the pause. Without needing to receive, which you do. I'm not saying you don't do, but if you're listening to this, use, uh, the pause itself. Let that be the biggest part of the work. And just that pause will help you show up differently tomorrow. Just that. So that's a tiny little thing that we can learn from. Sandra, one of the things I have a question about is you said at the time I had a big ego. You said at the time I had a big ego. So what does your ego journey look like? Is it bigger or smaller now? Is it a conscious or unconscious practice? I don't know. I'm just double clicking on a sentence that stuck out to me. But tell me about It I do

Speaker A: believe that businesses in general success, uh, subconsciously is defined by like, you got to feed your ego. And the um, more that you feed your ego, the more successful you're going to be. And I started part of my journey. I feel as kind of like the quote is, I'm a perpetual student and I'm always going to grow and learn. And my commitment to growing and learning is. I look at different practices currently it's Kabbalah. And Kabbalah's really taught me how your ego limits your life. You make sometimes decisions in terms of what's right for your ego for versus what's right for your soul. Oh, we were just talking before we kicked off is the um, co founder of Elf Beauty Cosmetics. I was just reading his story the last night and you know, multi billion dollar, three billion dollar business. He got to go all these parties. He was doing great from the outside perspective, super successful. Probably the viewpoint was that he was very happy. And I think it was the story that he just stopped. He's like, I'm not happy. You know, this is not fulfilling me. And I kind of have a similar story is that um, I think my e. My. I know my ego was limiting me from finding true happiness and true joy and being able to ask myself at times when I'm making a decision is am I doing this for my ego or I'm doing this for my soul? And that's a very hard transition. Actually we've been talking about this, ironically this past week about LinkedIn. We were using LinkedIn and uh, how many of us are tired that we go to LinkedIn? And I'm so honored that. And so LinkedIn has become what I would say is a machine to feed the ego. And in my viewpoint, in who I am at this present moment, you know, I look at these channels and having a voice is important. You know, figuring out like, how do I share my perspectives in a world that like the. I'm no longer needing to feed my ego, but I have something to share, I have something to talk about. And I'm going through this journey of like, how do I best do that in a platform that feeds the ego? I'm not sure if it's currently feeding the curious. I mean how many people really link, read the articles or link onto the, you know, stories that you write on LinkedIn? Most people are like just scrolling. Congratulations. Congratulations. Congratulations. I don't need a hit, you know, I just want to seed a thought that perhaps will affect one person so that we could leave the world a better place. So I love that.

Speaker B: Absolutely. I want to link curiosity and soul in a second. Mhm. But folks, I want you to take a fearless and searching moral inventory of your actions on a daily basis. Are you doing it to feed your ego or to feed your soul? Sandra, without going into AI Because I don't want AI to take up time on this podcast. Do you think AI hurts or helps our ego? Does it inflate or deflate our ego?

Speaker A: Oh, that's a great question. It depends on how you're engaging with AI. If you're engaging AI to validate your thoughts, to validate your perspective, then it's going to inflate your ego. If you use AI as a contrarian, like tell me why the strategy would be wrong or give me feedback on how I conducted the session. So let's say you're using granola and you're in a meeting and you're presenting and you want honest feedback of what could I have done better?

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Give me some suggestions. Arguably, I think that's feeding the soul. And so I have always been an advocate. I mean I grew up in the tech industry and my perspective is there is, ah, tech for good and tech for evil, similar thing. Are you doing it for good or are you doing it for evil? We as leaders know, we know the impact what technology has. I mean there's a reason why some of the technology leaders don't allow their kids to use the technology themselves that they're creating because they know it's. And so I have always been an ambassador of tech for good before the hot thing around data centers with regards to what it's impacting in terms of the amount of consumption of energy it's going to take and how it's going to affect our environment. I was raising that uh, years ago because you can do the math and you can say that there's not enough electricity to fuel these data centers. So the question is, for a company that's creating it, what are you going to do about it? How are you going to be ensure that you're on the right side of history?

Speaker B: What's something that our listeners can ask themselves to understand if they're using tech for good or tech for evil?

Speaker A: I think it depends on what their own North Star is. So ultimately depends on who you are as a human. So you could be using, you can be viewing that you're using technology for good, but in reality you're using it for evil. You m. Could uh, so that, that's really the question for the individual themselves. I'll give you a great example. I know somebody and ChatGPT has been like, I would say like their therapist, right? Gave the uh, Chat GPT a goes to chat GPT for everything basically, whether it's personal advice, maybe sometimes work advice. And I was telling the person, I go, you know, sometimes stepping away from chat GPT and actually having a conversation with a human because these tools don't have conscience, they don't have a soul that I know what you're trying to do is become a better person,

Speaker B: but

Speaker A: in reality it's not helping you because it can't see around the corners, it can't see the depth of your childhood that it should be asking you. It does not replace an amazing psychologist or sociologist like you need to go talk to a human being so that you can get to the root of what you're trying to work on. So that is an example of the person's trying to be a better person. But in reality the tool is actually hurting the person and that person needs to go talk to a human being, right? So that would be an example of the intention is good, but the usage actually ends up evil because they're not really getting to the heart of the work that person has to get done.

Speaker B: It sounds like maybe, uh, Sandra can, or any of you listening can create some kind of whole interesting questionnaire thought process on tech for good versus tech for evil and how we're using these things because I think it's in front of us every single day. It's pretty incredible. I do see that if someone is using AI to validate their thoughts, it inflates their ego probably even more than a LinkedIn does.

Speaker A: I mean that's a great research psychology perspective in terms of what it does.

Speaker B: At least in LinkedIn you've got people that disagree with you on the platform. But all ChatGPT or Claude or Perplexity or whatever the model is, if you go to it with a pretty biased like, hey, this is a pretty good idea, right? They're like, oh my God, this is the best idea. And you're like the perfect person in the world to like do this thing. Here's a ten step formula to do it. Then you're like, oh my God, wait, this is it. Oh my God, uh, wait, I'm um, the best. This is great. And so I do worry about that for people. And so my question then lies if LinkedIn or AI are one of many examples of things in this world that inflates the ego, the opposite could be to deflate the Ego to assume a posture of humility and student based lifelong learning and always seeking new ways of being of service. That sounds like the souls work. So can you take us into talking about the soul as an antidote to all this crazy shit that's happening in our world? And I love some of the words around contrarian curiosity, student humility, ego, deflation. Tell me about the soul in your life and um, maybe something that someone watching this can take to, to get one step closer to their soul.

Speaker A: Oh, it's hard to even answer that question because me, myself, I'm in the midst of that journey, right? That messy journey. I said I started my journey like after Covid and I would argue I'm still a toddler in understanding how to get to joy, how to really listen to your soul and what I could only share. And it's my own journey. So this is a data point of one is going back to like curiosity. There's so many tools out there. There are so many different types of practices. You know, cabal is agnostic of a religion and trying different things so you can understand like who am I and who was I meant to be and garnering your intuition. You know, we know a lot as humans, genetically already engineered the day we were born. You know, we have fight or flight. And so we have amazing intuition. And you know, when I talk about the soul is like if, when I start to dial in my intuition I can anticipate things, I become clairvoyant. And uh, you know, a couple of my fellow colleagues will say like, Sandra's a witch. And there was a point in time like, I don't know if I should use the word witch or not because in business they're like, what is that? Get away from me. But we all have, every one of us has intuition and clairvoyance and it is seeking really working really hard to see can you see into your soul and really tune into it. And there's various tools and once you start to get a glimpse of really listening to your soul, you know, you started talking about like hardships in the uh, podcast and just take one step in front of the other. When you have access to your soul, you have certainty beyond logic that it's going to be okay making the pivot from big corporate Adobes, Microsoft and Intels of the world. I did that for 20 plus years. You know, the luxury of uh, knowing I had a paycheck every two weeks. Nowadays it's kind of difficult with all the layoffs. But in general like stability and taking a leap of faith that I'm going to go do my own thing. Has it always been easy? No. Has there been hardships? Yes. But certainty beyond logic, that I am where I am at the moment that I need to be is amazing. And hardship, if I go back to my entire career, my entire life, the moments. The hardest moments of my life was when I saw exponential growth. So hardships to me are the greatest gifts. I am now learning to experience my hardships and say, what a gift. Thank you. What a gift. There's something that I'm supposed to be learning here, and I always do, and I always grow exponentially.

Speaker B: M. Holy guacamole. Listen to your words, Sandra. Messy. Listen. Journey. Experiment. Intuition. Certainty beyond logic. Hardship creates exponential growth. Thank you. How do those words sound?

Speaker A: I mean, thank you for putting the mirror in front of me. I, uh, kind of going back to what I'm grateful for. Thank you for Covid. I know we lost a lot of human beings in the process, so I reckon I want to recognize that. Yeah, if it wasn't for Covid, I wouldn't be where I am today. With that perspective, I would still probably have an ego.

Speaker B: Um, my question to you listening, folks, is how can you introduce a touch of, uh, soul into your life? Listening. Messy experimentation, Things you do just for the sake of the journey, things that you do that require you to listen to what's inside, where you find certainty beyond logic. What are you going through right now that you don't even know it yet is going to create exponential growth? And how can you actually thank the thing? How can you thank it? You know, I think we live in a. We live in a. The opposite of a messy life. We live in a. Everybody fits in a rigid box, and we've removed the color from our cars in the parking lots, and we can all follow a linear order on AI and calendar invites and click this thing and do that thing, and it's. That's pretty. It's pretty, like, pretty orderly and logical. And what you're saying is, that's all fine and dandy to achieve good results, but you want to unlock greatness. You step into the messy path and touch the soul of the people that you serve and put soul into the products that you build. And you do that, and you're going to get excellence.

Speaker A: Yep, absolutely. The soul responds to the soul. So when. If you're starting your own business and you really focus on what's the soul of the company, humans are going to respond to that. I would say you talked about, you know, it's all linear. And, you know, we have the boxes. You know, part of my process is like, I ask questions. I'm like, well, the system was telling me that's what I should do. Or the system was telling me that's how I should live. You know, I am divorced and my new principal is like, well, should I find a new partner? Do I really want to be living with that person under one roof? You know, maybe it's slightly different. Could it look different? And so just because society says that you should have a partner and the partner should live under the same roof and that's what it should look like, I began to question that. I'm like, I don't think that's healthy for my soul. I need my own space in the morning. I have an hour routine. I do the miracle morning. It's called savers. I don't know if you guys are familiar with that. So miracle morning was part of my Covid recovery. So savers is an acronym for silence, acknowledgment, which is gratitude. Mhm. Visualize the world in which you want to live in. Exercise, read. And when I read, I try to read a contrarian point of view so I can learn from people that have an opposite opinion to me and scribe journal. I mean, journaling is my, uh, it's my outlet. And so I need that space. So I'm not sure I can wake up to a person right next to me seven days out of the week. And so it's also, your soul knows what it desires. And sometimes it's really hard because society or systems are telling you, this is how success looks like, or this is how you should be living. And if you don't, you're crazy. Like, what is this person like, how can you not want to live with a partner under the same roof? No, it's not for me. And so I would challenge all of us is if we can begin to normalize the things that are not normal, we begin to accept more. And the more people can feel that they belong. And if we all feel like we belong, then we feel like we have a purpose on the planet. We all have a purpose on the planet. We drive growth and sustainability for a better pathway.

Speaker B: Folks, normalize what's not normal. You have like, you literally, like, drop like wisdom bombs, like every other sentence. It's ridiculous. Like, the amount of like, quotable moments of like, certainty over logic. Soul responds to the soul. Soul response to soul. Right, folks, at the end of the day, so many people in your life are telling you, commodity faster Speed, certainty, mastery. Go, go, go. Outsource, efficient, optimize, Go. Uh, folks, I know a lot of you, at the end of the day, you're in the people business. Maybe you're in real estate, and you're literally at the base of Maslov's needs, providing food, water, shelter. Right? Maybe you're in a services business where like, you're literally connecting to another human that needs your service. This is human soul stuff. And so while everybody's zigging commodity, linear templated, what you should do, the only competitive advantage is to zag. Go the opposite way. That's it, right. If you want to. Right. AI has democratized access to pretty much anybody being able to do anything. But what happens through that is that you lower the common denominator. You actually, you don't increase the normal like, denominator, you actually decrease it. You go down to the dumbest. It goes down to its like dumbest form where like, everybody can play in the sandbox. Which means the only way to stand out from that commoditized generic, mhm, boring fluff is to bring the soul back into it and to get ridiculous with it and to get purposefully messy with it and to learn shit through that hardship and to get confused in the process and to understand the journey, because that turns into wisdom, because that's how you keep the soul in it. And that's the greatest competitive advantage of the future.

Speaker A: Love that. When everybody's zigging zag, of course, I

Speaker B: mean, it's never been, uh, One of the things you say is it's never been faster. It's never been easier to run fast in the wrong direction. Uh, and if a rising tide lifts all boats, at which point do you actually question whether you're on the right tide?

Speaker A: Yeah,

Speaker B: right. You mentioned the word, you mentioned the word individual. And I know we're at time, but you mentioned the word individual. Like experiment, journey, individual, like your intuition, your soul. It's like an individual thing. AI is the biggest group think thing the world has ever seen, folks. You think social media algorithms create group think mentality. You ain't seen jack. AI is literally taking something from here, throwing it over to something in there. If someone asks about the color blue, it's taking your thoughts about the color yellow and calling it the color blue. It's all just group think crap. Which means the only thing that stands out tomorrow is to do something that's individualized, that's filled with experimentation, that's uniquely something you can own as an organization, as a brand, as an individual. But it's got to be completely different than what you can find in a chatbot. That's it. That's the soul?

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Does that make sense?

Speaker A: Love it. Well,

Speaker B: if you could thank Covid directly, first person on this call, what would you say to it?

Speaker A: M. I didn't know I needed you. Thank you for being there. Crazy how an epidemic change the world of many people. In the process, we also lost individuals. So, Covid,

Speaker B: any last words in closing?

Speaker A: No, I think, um, be delusional about finding your soul. How's that? Dulu.

Speaker B: Dulu. Soul searching, folks. Look, come on, this is some pretty human stuff, right? I know if you're watching this, you know, you're searching for a little bit something different in life. Yeah. Maybe your life right now, if you're watching this, looks pretty damn good on paper. You made it this far, you made it, you survived, you thrived, you're alive. But you know that just because life looks good on paper doesn't mean it feels good in the heart. And this is literally someone who has walked the walk in corporate America, followed energy, intuition, and soul into a new pathway. And it's working out pretty well for you can do it too. I hope you've enjoyed this episode again. For all the Lowell listeners on the podcast, it's good to see you, friend. I can't wait to open up my email and see your thoughts, questions, comments, comments and concerns. So keep them coming. To all the new listeners, welcome. I hope you enjoyed this. I hope you thought about one person that you can send this to to let them know I see you. You matter. Follow your soul's purpose and everything's going to turn out all right because you have that power to impact someone else's life just by doing that. Take more moments of pause zag while people zig and keep doing the work. Keep showing up, y'. All. Join us on more episodes of Gratitude through Hard Times. I hope you're having a phenomenal day on earth, folks. Remember, it's your world. Go explore and we'll see out there. Be delusionally delulu. Whatever Sandra said, we'll put it in the show notes. Bye everybody. Cowbunga.