Chris Caldwell: The Inconvenient Path of Gratitude

Speaker A: I was a part time teller. I was headed down the academia path. I was going to get my doctorate. I was going to teach history. My manager said, hey, have you ever thought about doing this full time? Like, uh, no, this is not me. That's not what I'm supposed to do. And he said, you know, you've really got something here. I think you've got a gift that we ought to explore. Uh, fast forward 30 plus years later, here I sit. By the way, I've always tried to make sure to touch base with those folks to just simply say, hey, by the way, part of the reason I'm here today is because of you. I wouldn't be here today were it not for you.

Speaker B: You're now listening to a new episode of Gratitude Through Hard Times. Gratitude instills humility. Gratitude removes ego. Gratitude helps empower the best in others around you. Our to guide individuals and companies to practice gratitude so you can live a longer, happier and more successful life. Get ahead of life with connection and purpose. This is Gratitude Through Hard Times with Chris Shimbra.

Speaker C: Well, good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome back to another episode of Gratitude, uh, Through Hard Times. It's your host, Chris Schembra. And today I know I might sound different from audio. I'm not sitting in our recording studio. I'm actually down at our beach house in Hilton Head Island, South Carolina. We're a big fan of Work Hard, Play Hard, and this week we're down at the beach. But nonetheless, we're so excited that you've tuned in for what I know is going to be a very special conversation with a great leader right directly from the heart. To all our loyal listeners out there, it's good to see you, friend. I know the next time that you're in New York City, I hope you give us a call. You've always got a seat at our dinner table. Some of my favorite moments throughout the week are when you email in your thoughts, your questions, your comments, your concerns about today's episode guest. So keep that email flowing. Your support over the last eight years is really what's motivated us to keep this mission alive. It's good to see you, old friend. To all the new listeners out there, I have no clue how you stumbled on to our little humble corner of the the Internet, but we're glad to see you. You know, I don't know what you thought you'd find in today's episode, but I hope you find just a good, human centered conversation between two leaders that are talking about how to lead better tomorrow. The stories that got us here, the people we got to give gratitude to, and how to stay human during these really turbulent and trying times. Maybe someone sent you this episode, a friend, as a vehicle to say you matter. I see you, you're on the right path and so I hope you join us for our journey. By the end of the episode, please click that subscribe button. Share this episode with a friend in need. Our commitment for the last 11 years has been around gratitude and pasta sauce and human connection to remind you you are perfect just the way you are. So it's nice to meet you, new friend. Welcome to this episode. Today is going to be amazing because we have a self proclaimed leader, uh, the best community banker who leads with a servant heart. We have Chris Caldwell, the CEO of Community national bank that just went public a few months ago. They're based out of Vermont. They serve a great deal of people in the right way. They were founded in 1851. They are committed to serving the needs of the community from a human centered way. Um, Kris has held a variety of different leadership positions, not only at this bank, but in many different banks. He's a career community banker and it comes directly from the heart. So today we're not going to be talking about lending strategy, go to market strategy, fiscal policy. Today we're going to be talking about Kris, the husband of Betty, the father of an amazing family. Uh, gratitude to his pets, to the people who tell stories around him, the people who got him to where he is today. I think it's going to be very heart centered. His full bio is in the show notes below. He's achieved the top that you can achieve. But today we're just going to be talking man to man. Glad that glass of wine or uh, coffee or uh, water and join us for a great episode. Chris, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker A: Thank you, Chris. I appreciate it. Glad to be here.

Speaker C: Now, before we dive in, what made you say yes to this topic around gratitude and human connection?

Speaker A: You know, honestly, I, anytime that I can, I can express my thanks for the people around me. Um, or if there's a conversation that's happening where we're expressing thanks, I want to be part of it. It's just, you know, it's part of my DNA, um, from my upbringing, from my parents and learning how to say thank you and be polite and be appreciative of the things that I have in my life, um, to the work that I get to do every day, the people that I get to work with every day, the communities I get to work in every day, uh, it's, you know, we can't say thanks enough. And so if there's an opportunity to be part of a conversation about gratitude, sign me up. I'm all for it.

Speaker C: Today, folks, to all the new listeners tuning in, we're going to be talking about gratitude. Not just the type you practice by yourself as a list in a journal, but the type that you give to others that's pro social. Today we're not just going to be talking about giving gratitude during good times. We're also going to be talking about how gratitude can become a tool for proactive resilience during hard times where we find out things about ourselves and those that surround us that help us get through whatever we're going through. And so you're tuned into a conversation about gratitude under that flavor. Now, Kris, to start us off today, we always like to ask a very simple question. We've been asking this simple gratitude question since July 15, 2015. If you looked at my life then, it was quite simple. I had a bowl of pasta sauce and I wanted to feed it to my friends to see if it was even good or not. And I invited a few friends over that didn't know each other by the way for a simple dinner party. And we worked together to create the meal. We had a shared group experience. And at 7:47pm on that very first evening, we paused and asked this gratitude question. And so I'd like to ask it to you just to kick us off here today, Kris, if you could give credit or thanks to one person in your life that you don't give enough credit or thanks to or that you've never thought to thank, who would that be? I love. Already got a smile about it.

Speaker A: That's a tough one. I never give enough gratitude to my wife as, as, as hard as I try. Um, sorry.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, he's amazing.

Speaker A: And, um, she's pretty special. So, yeah, it'd be my wife.

Speaker C: Now, Betty. Um, B E T T I E, not Y. Uh, pretty cool. There's Betty. And to the amazing spelling of the name. Now here's the interesting question, Chris. I see you people know you as someone who's very grateful, especially very grateful to miss Betty. What way would you like to thank her? That's different.

Speaker A: One of the things that, um, I get a lot of accolades for leading the organization, for running the bank, for everything that I do. But, you know, but that doesn't come without a tremendous support team behind me. And so, you know, Betty, Betty is that person who enables me to be able to do that. Um, who is probably, without a doubt, my biggest cheerleader, except maybe my parents. Um, and. And is the person who is there to say, you did, you know, you did a great job. Way to go. Um, she's the one that makes sure that my time matches my suit, you know, but. But she's also, um, I. I don't ever get enough chance to say publicly, um, whether it's our shareholder annual meeting or whether it's a, um, a letter to investors, whatever. Yeah, that, you know, she's. She's that person behind the scenes that is. Is, ah, allows me to do what I do. And so, you know, I think for me that. That if there was one way, some way that I could just be more public in my appreciation, I certainly, um, you know, want to do that. And so that's partly why I, you know, when I, When I post stuff on LinkedIn and I talk about, uh, I talk about her and my relationship there, um, I try to bring that out because it is. I mean, she is a critical component. This is. I don't do what I get to do every day without that amazing support.

Speaker C: What's a memory of Betty that just lights you up with joy?

Speaker A: When we were much younger and we ran a lot together, um, running across the finish line. The first time that we ran the, uh, indie mini marathon together, um, and we crossed the finish line together, and, um, yeah, it was cool.

Speaker C: Cheers, Betty. Cheers to a lifetime of running adventures, service, and leading with the heart.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: You are what gives Chris permission to lean in every day with gratitude and humility and care. Uh, so cheers to you, Betty. Thank you for that, Chris. Bet it brought some stuff up for you, huh?

Speaker A: It does. It does.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: She's pretty cool, so.

Speaker C: Well, thank you for going there.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker C: Now, Chris, you have had a wonderful journey in your career at multiple different banks leading up to now, and you've publicly said that you are a community banker at heart. Let me get the exact quote. You are a. Oh, my gosh. It's right here. Um. Oh, my gosh. Scrolling. I have so much research. Sorry. I'm really a community banker at heart. Community National Bank's mission aligns with my personal philosophy of how to serve customers and businesses and community at large. Take me back to a moment in your life where your personal philosophy of service, of community, of connection, of generosity was, like, solidified. Was this teenage years, college years, was there a mentor, etc. When did that solidify?

Speaker A: Um, you know, I think it. It really struck home for me. Um, early, early on in my career, um, I was, I was a part time teller and um, the bank that I was working for, this I'm, I'm a newbie in banking. And, and um, we, we did a United Way campaign and the United Way came um, to our office, visited with our staff about why support the United Way. And then the, the, the manager of the office stood up and talked about how, you know, not only is it a, uh, a financial gift, but it's also an opportunity for us to, to give back of, of time as well and to, to give an opportunity to volunteer for, you know, Red Cross or, or whatever organization it happened to be. And, and you know that all of a sudden it started clicking that you know what, I can do community service while also working professionally as a banker. And that began to really start to solidify at that point. Um, and it's just continued to grow stronger and stronger every day. For me, uh, it's as I, as I tell our team, you know, community is in our name. Um, so we better, we better do it right and, and you know, it, it's doing the right thing every day. Um, and when you do the right thing every day and, and you understand that your job is to, to do more than just take a, take a uh, deposit to make a loan. It is to be, to be an integral part of our community. That's when we excel our best.

Speaker C: From the point of volunteerism and giving back and the idea that you can live a life that has both income and also giving back, being um, of a generous service to the community. Some of our listeners might think that that only requires writing a check, but I think it also requires other types of alternative ways of giving time, effort, energy, etc. What's a form of volunteerism beyond just writing a check that you're proud that you spend time, effort, energy, social capital, emotional expenditure, etc. Like doing is it hammering a nail and at a habitat for you, like what kind of non traditional ways do you like to give?

Speaker A: One of my favorite pictures, I wish I had it, I could show the listeners. But um, one of my favorite pictures is of my wife and my dad and I at a habitat project. And the bank that I worked for at the time was doing a volunteer day and my dad had just recently retired and started doing volunteer work for Habitat in a different community. And so he and I were chatting and talking and I told him that we were going to be doing this day and he said, hey, do you need an extra set of hands? And I said I'm sure we could probably use an extra set of hands. Always use an extra set of hands. And so he came over that Saturday, and, um, we're hot, we're sweaty, and, you know, my T shirt is just soaking wet by the time we're done. But the smile on our faces, um, just as magical. And so. And, you know, I drove by that house that we worked on for the next 10 years, and, you know, every once in a while, my wife and I would just sort of drive by and go, hey, we did something there. You know, we, we put up. We put up walls in that house. And, um, you know, that. That's just one of those. One of those special memories that, you know. Um, yeah, you're right. You can write a check and support Habitat that way. And certainly those funds help buy materials to build homes, but it's also the ability to put a little sweat into the property that makes it that much more special. Um, but it's any number of ways in which you can give back. And it's any number of ways that I serve on a board and I can lend my expertise as a banker to help that organization be more fiscally sound than where they are today. So if I can give of, um, my time that way and my skill sets that way, that's, you know, that's a wonderful way to help support the organization. It doesn't always have to be the sweat going into the property. Sometimes it is other ways in which you can help. Um, so, you know, it's. We, we've got a. We've got a lady here at the bank that is just a wonderfully passionate person with children, children that are going into the foster care system. And these are kids typically who, you know, in some cases are putting in, being put into a foster care system with nothing but the shirt back. And it's no fault of their own. Right? These are innocent people who are getting stuck in bad situations. And so we did a drive to just support this program, um, here in the state of Vermont. We filled a massive work truck, work van full of stuff. And what was really fascinating about it was when our customers found out what was going on, they wanted to help. We just initially started it as an internal project, but all of a sudden our customers found out they want to help. And so a local store says, hey, can we give you a big box of backpacks for these kids? Absolutely. And another store calls us up and says, hey, you know, these kids need, like, underwear and socks and just sort of the bare, you know, the basic necessities of life. Absolutely. And so all of a sudden, we've got people not only writing checks and making monetary contributions, but also providing materials. And it was just. It was heartwarming. It was really cool.

Speaker C: Well, you're describing a true community.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: You're describing a village. And we're going to talk about those two topics just in a sec, because I think it's a very timely topic for what's happening in our world today and the yearning for people to return back to community and village, where we all pitch in together to do things. We're going to talk about that in a sec. To close the loop on your personal volunteerism. First of all, to all the listeners, you know, I hope you're really thinking about your life and realizing a. If you don't have giving back, volunteerism, philanthropy, charity work, if you don't have that in your life at all, just use this as another example. Please. Start. Start small. Do something. It's just. It fills up your heart with joy. But the invitation for those that are giving back already right now, if you're only giving back in a check and you're really far away from the impact. Yes, keep doing that, please. But also get out in the field, hammer a nail, pick up a box, do some really physical things with other people, and you're going to feel the impact more. And not only is that going to benefit you just from like an oxytocin, serotonin happiness perspective, but it's then going to motivate you to want to give more. And that's what the world needs. They're just more givers. And so I hope you're finding out that, like, intellectual capacity, network capital, finances, there's a lot of different ways to give, and it's a great way of building relationships within community. So I hope that's inspiring you. Now, Chris, Habitat for Humanity was my thing as well as a kid and Relay for Life. Um, and I remember that, you know, there'd be a sports game at night on a Friday, and I'd spend the whole sports game trying to. Not really watching the sports game if I wasn't playing in it, but rallying kids to come with me, 7:00am the next morning, you know, to Habitat for Humanity. And while it certainly worked, it certainly didn't work oftentimes as well. And I found that this personal philosophy I inherited from my own family about giving back and participating in the process was sometimes getting challenged. Sometimes I'd be the only one trying to give while the world was trying to go a different way. I'd be the only one trying to do this gratitude while the world was going, you know, so what was the time that your personal philosophy around giving and gratitude and heart and community and faith and family and all these things was challenged? And what did you have to find inside of you to get through it?

Speaker A: That's a tough one. You know, I, I don't, I don't know that I've got a really good example of that, Chris. I mean, I, I think that there have been times where I certainly have wished that more people would come along, um, than, than, than have in the past. But I also, I guess I, I look at it from the perspective of I, I can't, you know, I can't force somebody to do what they don't want to do. And, and I can't force somebody to have that kind of mindset that says I'm going to be charitable or I'm gonna, I'm going to give them my time and energy. Um, all I can do is try to do the best I can to show what it means to me and why it's important to me and hope that maybe along the way there's somebody that says, you know, maybe, maybe there's more to this than what I'm, than what I'm sensing. And I'm going to try to do, you know, I'm going to try to emulate a little bit of what Chris is doing. And so if I can do that in that way, then, you know, I guess I've done my part. Does that make sense?

Speaker C: I actually think it's the best answer you could have given because in that answer, I learned two things. One, I learned just like so many of our listeners here today, that just showing up consistently and being the example is in itself the work. Doing the right thing with integrity. I know a lot of you folks are probably sitting there and you know how you want to show up in the world, but you might be spending too much time worrying about how others reactions will be. Kris is giving you permission to keep showing up. And if they follow, they follow. If they don't, they don't. But you've done your part. And the way I think Kris's life and career have shown is that ends up, it does work out. And that's how you get to leadership positions of a good organization with a great family, doing great work for the world. The right way is just by continuously showing up and not worrying if others are being there. You know, there's a tattoo that I got on April 26, 2009. When I was 11 and a half months sober at the time after three stints in rehab, and I was holding on to my last ditches of sobriety and got the Serenity prayer tattooed in my arm. God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. By the way, I drank the next day, and I've been drinking, you know, ever since, but nonetheless, it served a purpose at the time. But what you just said, I can't force others, I can't change others, but I can have the courage to change how I show up and the wisdom to know the difference. You just talked about the Serenity prayer.

Speaker A: Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

Speaker C: Now, I want to kind of translate or, uh, uh, go into kind of like that, the daily moment. And you know how Chris shows up tomorrow, because I think the world is in a really interesting time. You know, I think it's not lost on me that your bank was founded in 1851. Now listen to this. Listen. Let's go to 1851 for a sec. You had local communication, local, uh, communities. You had physical labor. You had seasonal rhythms. You had handmade craftsmanship. It was the olden days, but it was also a really fascinating period where worlds were colliding. Because in 1851 as well, you had Isaac Singer creating the Singer sewing machine. You had factories and railroads and telegraphs and industrial machines and mass production and global trade and speed and scale. And so you had a moment in time when slow met fast, when human met machine, when scale met community approach. 1851 was that year. And now here y' all are almost 200 years later, and the world is at a similar time. We're straddling two different moments in humanity, a lot of changes occurring. Chris, how are you meeting this moment?

Speaker A: Yeah, it's funny you bring that up, Chris, because at our annual shareholder meeting last week, that's one of the things I talked about was from 1851 through 2026, we've always tried to figure out how to meet change while at the same time serving clients. And client expectations have evolved from 1851 to today. You can't do what you do without this thing. I mean, uh, anymore customers expect that you can bank with us through this device. Right? That's only been around, by the way, since 2007. So it's not even 20 years old yet. And yet here we sit, and now we're talking about AI and what does AI do for how customers want to Interact with us. And so there is, I think there's a sort of a speed of change which is accelerating at today's pace. And yet I would also contend that through all of that there is still a desire at the very root of it all. There is still a desire for the customer to want to have a personal relationship with their banker that says, I need somebody that I can trust who is the person that I can go to to seek advice and can be helpful for me as I deal with the changes in my life. Whether that is having a child or sending a child to college or getting ready to retire or unfortunately going through a divorce or whatever else it happens to be. Um, all of those things that happen in our lives that they need somebody they can come to and still spend time with to build those relationships that talk about, I want to, I'm here to help you. And, and you know, at the end of the day that's what we do. I mean, that's our job. And if, if we do it really well, customers will keep telling other people that they need to come see us because at the end of the day we're helping. And, and that's our, you know, we're professional helpers. Um, so, so yeah, I mean there's, there's change and changes accelerating, but at the same time I also contend that, that Whether it was 1851 or 2026, customers still still need and want a personal relationship that, that, that allows them to see and be seen.

Speaker C: Hmm. Mhm. I think that's so important is that you're talking about doing both, not either.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Is that when the speed of change is accelerating, the not slowness, but the humanness of trust, professional helpers, that human touch, both are important so that the customer can have a frictionless digital experience in banking and a friction filled point of connection with another human. I mean, not for nothing, oh, I just dropped everything. Not for nothing, but statistically speaking, 51% of the American workforce reports feeling lonely on a consistent basis, which is equivalent to the reduction of lifespan of smoking 15 cigarettes a day. So disconnection and isolation are really, really troubling things. You're saying we can speed up technology to serve at speed and scale and we can solve a really big human thing by also staying human. Some of your customers might be coming to you for a moment of connection, human to human, that they don't find anywhere else.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, we have customers that call to just get their checking account balance. They again, it's right here. You can get your checking account balance Right here. It's not because they need their checking account balance. It's because they want to talk to somebody.

Speaker C: You were a part time teller many years ago, long time ago, at the start of your journey, you were on the lines, front lines of the impact. You were there with the people. For a young person that's watching this, that might want to get into a frontline, human oriented, connecting with people while also technology is doing this thing,

Speaker B: what

Speaker C: would young Chris say to them?

Speaker A: Seek out somebody in the organization who you admire and you want to be a little bit more like Find, find, find that mentor and, and um, ask them questions and learn from them and be a sponge. I, I'll never forget there was a, there was a lady that I worked with when I was a part time teller who um, I just would go to from time to time and say, hey, I don't have any customers right now. What can I do to help you? And she would give me a task to do. And then pretty soon it became help me understand what this does. How is this helping your customer, how is this doing whatever it's trying to do? And she was just teaching me more and more and more about the industry, about how I can better serve customers as well going forward. Um, and, and she never knew it, but she was, she was a very informal mentor to me. Um, and so I would say, you know, don't ever hesitate to ask somebody, well, can I understand more about this, Can I understand more about that? But regardless of what the industry is, you know, there are people that have spent a lot of time in their, in their career doing something and they've got a lot of knowledge and um, glean that knowledge from them.

Speaker C: Um, I think it's a two way benefit. It was a benefit for you and it was a benefit for her because it feels good to give and teach in that way.

Speaker A: Yeah, she loved it.

Speaker C: I'm going to say something radical that I hope you listeners kind of hear me out on. It feels good to give, it feels good to teach, it does feel good to answer a younger person's question. If you, on the flip side, if you do not go around asking for help, asking for mentorship, asking for guidance, asking how they did something, you're robbing them of their ability to give and that's not good. I mean, I want to flip this whole model on its head and say if you're trying to get ahead tomorrow, it would be selfish for you to not go ask for advice from others because in doing so you're robbing them of Their happiness of that joy. And so all the leaders listening to this, I know that you're trying to make everything more efficient, outsourced and optimized, speed, certainty, mastery. But please do not forget those intergenerational relationships that give people the opportunities for knowledge share to occur. You know, at the end of the day, people buy from people, not from companies. That's the olden day thing. The new thing is people buy from people, not from AI, but in order to set up a legacy talent program at your company, you got to start with the young people, but you got to also keep the middle people. Don't get rid of them too soon. That's where knowledge transfer occurs. And you cannot overestimate the importance of that wisdom. Does that make sense? Yeah. Chris, as we start kind of landing the ship, what's a topic we haven't talked about today that you're excited to talk about or you don't talk about enough?

Speaker A: Besides my puppy?

Speaker C: Yes. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Speaker A: No, no, no. You know, I think one of the things that I just, I can't stress enough is the mentors in my life, um, whether that was my grandfather or my parents, but it was also people along the way that, that just, you know, put their virtual arm around me to say, hey, I see something in you. And man, you know, I'd really recommend that you think more about this. Um, I was a part time teller. I was headed down the academia path. That's where I was going. I was going to get my doctorate, I was going to teach history. That was just, that was where I was headed. And, uh, it was an individual who was my manager who on a run one Saturday morning said, hey, have you ever thought about doing this full time? Like, uh, no, this is not me. That's not what I'm supposed to do. And he said, you know, you've really got something here. I think you've got a gift that we ought to Explore. Fast forward 30 plus years later, here I sit. By the way, I made sure. I've made sure. Uh, I've tried to make sure not always been as successful as I wish I had, but I've always tried to make sure to touch base with those folks as things have happened in my career to just simply say, hey, by the way, part of the reason I'm here today is because of you. Um, and so one of the greatest things I got to do when I was made CEO was to reach out to a half dozen folks to say, I wouldn't be here today were it not for you. And that's, um, you know, I think that's really important. Um, my. My. Both my parents were teachers, and both my parents still have students who today reach out to them to just say, I hope you know that because of this, that you did for me, I'm now doing this. Um, and so, you know, that that's. I don't do it because I. I'm wanting people to do that for me at some point in my career. But I do think, you know, one of the greatest gifts that'll ever happen to me is when one of my former staff reaches out to me to say, you know, I know. I don't know if you remember this, but you did this for me. And, And I'm here now. Um, and. And that's awesome. And I've got folks that I used

Speaker C: to work with that.

Speaker A: That just ping me on a text and say, hey, do you have five minutes? I have a question for you. Hell yes, I have five minutes. I'd be delighted to sit down.

Speaker C: Listen.

Speaker A: Um, so, you know, but. But it gets back to what you've been talking about, Chris, in terms of we don't. We don't exist in a vacuum. Um, and we get. Honestly, you can be really, really lonely if you try to exist in that vacuum. And so, yeah, I need downtime. I need time for myself where I can recharge, and that's perfectly acceptable. But I'm not here today without a whole lot of other people around me. We have an amazing team. We have a great senior leadership team at this organization, and we're working really, really hard, ah, at building that team out and developing a sense of cohesiveness around that team, a sense of purpose around that team, and really driving where we're headed. That comes with a lot of emotional intelligence work, which we're trying to, you know, we're spending a lot of energy and time on. Loved your article, by the way, on the. On the joyful phrases. Um, that. That was in. I think it was cnbc, you know, I think those are. Those are the kinds of things, though, that how can we actively listen to one another? Um, and that's what our team's trying to work on right now, is how do we actively listen to one another so that it is not just. I'm trying to get my point across to you before you get your point across to me. It is. Chris, I want to hear more about what you have to say. Stop, Pause. Did I hear this correctly? Um, am I hearing what you said accurately? Tell me a little bit More Help me understand. Let's flesh this out. And oh, by the way, in the process of doing that, you begin to, to have a better sense of what you're trying, your point that you're trying to make. And if you're willing to listen to some challenges to what your point is, then all of a sudden, you know, your point becomes more salient, your point becomes more valid for the whole, uh, you know, it just, but it doesn't happen in a vacuum. It just doesn't happen all by itself. It has to happen with people. And I don't care what, uh, yes, I use AI to, to sort of proofread emails and do some other pieces and parts and you know, it's, it's been very beneficial and helpful just in doing those kinds of things. I still want people, I still need people. Right. I still need somebody to proofread my shareholder letter.

Speaker C: I think, Chris, that commitment to staying human with people and training and emotional intelligence skills, you are ahead, you are ahead of a trend. And here's what I mean by that. I believe AI will have tremendous positive benefits in our world. Sure. Yes. Yeah. And I believe that AI might have its big tobacco moment sooner than Big Tobacco had their moment.

Speaker A: An interesting way to put it.

Speaker C: If you look back to the 1930s, FDR once said, to dole out welfare or relief of this kind is to administer a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit. AI is that on steroids for cognitive thinking, for social connection, for emotional intelligence, for resilience, for critical thinking, for learning, agility, adaptability, Workday, a big organization just came out with a study that said something like, uh, 83% or sorry, 56% of Gen Z's have more patience for AI than other humans. They don't know how to be patient, to get right. So whatever the. With the excitement of AI, it's also there's studies that are finally coming out about what it's doing to humans. And you are ahead of the curve of saying, I'm going to discern how much of myself I give to that thing and how much of myself I keep. Like writing a shareholder update. You need excellence, you need precision. AI doesn't do that. Right now AI is great. As I say, from two to seven, AI might be a great idea originator. From zero to two or sorry, uh, it's good. From two, you have to be the original ideator.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker C: You got to be Chris with a, ah, wealth of knowledge to get that original zero to two insight idea. Let AI help out. From two to Seven. Arrange, organize, transcribe, do the thing from seven to ten. That's Chris coming in and polishing with excellence. Right now we are dumbing down. I know I'm going on a tirade, but right now we're, we're, we're playing and we talk about this in the first Broadway play I ever produced back on October 23, 2012. It opened, it was about Fiorello Laguardia, former mayor of New York City. And in it we talk about we are playing to the least common denominator. AI slop general statements. That's not excellence, that's mediocrity. Excellence comes in the precision that only a human who's done the work for decades knows how to say. I don't know. Yeah, I haven't got so passionate about that before, but I don't know.

Speaker A: But it's critical thinking too, Chris. Right. I mean that you use that phrase and it's, it's a phrase that I'm, I, I'm scared in some ways that we're losing the course of critical thinking. Um, challenge me. I mean, I don't, yeah, I don't want to be a 30 second sound bite. Um, and so challenge me and push back and make me defend my position. And maybe, just maybe in the process of defending my position, my position becomes even stronger.

Speaker C: Yep.

Speaker A: But maybe in the process of defending it, I also begin to see a different way of looking at it. And that's okay too.

Speaker C: It's empathy, it's trust, it's new idea generation, it's creativity, it's, oh, uh, we don't know how to do that without blowing up. And we have no emotion regulation skills, we have no interpersonal effectiveness skills. We don't have distress tolerance skills as a humanity. I think, um, gosh, I was just in London last week, um, working with uh, the senior executive team of a multi billion dollar technology company who's, who's finding that they're nicing their way into mediocrity. Not really. But uh, if you can't have challenging conversations from a group level, challenge each other, productive conflict, those kind of things, you risk just being good, not great. Oh, they're good. Is still awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're good. It's still awesome. But from a humanity perspective, we need to be great. That's what our country was built on. That's what organizations are built on. Excellence. Excellent. Yeah, I'm glad you see that.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker C: I want to start landing the ship. I didn't mean to go off on that, but it Sounds like you and I think so very much alike in that way. Um, in closing, first of all, if Betty was here on this call, what gratitude would you say to her today?

Speaker A: Thanks for being everything. Pretty simple, you know, but. But yeah, um, she's been an amazing partner for a number of years, and I'm just incredibly grateful. So.

Speaker C: Any last words in closing?

Speaker A: I mean, thanks for, thanks for having a podcast that talks about gratitude. Thanks for having a podcast that, that is about appreciating others and expressing that appreciation. And, you know, before we got started, I was telling you that, that, you know, one of the things that I try to do is just, uh, we don't have a lot of employees. We have 136 right now, so it's not a monumental lift. But each month I send to employees that have their work anniversary, I just send them a quick congratulations on your work anniversary. Really glad you're here, really glad you're part of the team. But also try to just think back over the last year in terms of an interaction that I've had with them to say, hey, I saw this. I really appreciate this. Um, yeah, it, you know, it, it takes a little bit of time to, to put together, you know, 15 thank you cards to, to the staff. But, but, you know, they, they love. I mean, I keep getting feedback. You know, at one point I thought, well, you know, nobody actually is reading these things, so, you know, maybe I'm just wasting paper. Um, no, they, they really appreciate it. Um, it's a handwritten notebook. And, and what they, what they, what they appreciate is that I've, that, that somebody in the organization has acknowledged and is appreciating something that they're doing. Um, and, and you know, there's, you know, I use the words grateful, I use the words appreciation. I use the word thank you a lot, um, in those cards because, you know, I'm sort of running out of synonyms for thank you. But again, I'm trying to make sure that people understand that they matter and that what they do is important work for what we try to do. And it's about community. And it's about. Part of what you do every day is you're giving back to your community, whether you recognize that or not. And yes, we're paying you to do that, but you are still giving back to your community. And our community is a better place as a result of what you do. So, um, you know that. And our community is our towns, it's our neighborhoods, it's each other within the, within the walls. Of this organization. Um, you know, community can be defined in a multitude of ways. And so, um, but, but what they do and how they reach out and how they express concern for one another, um, is really amazing. And, and, um, that's what I want to acknowledge.

Speaker C: I think you're helping people save lives. I truly believe that the way that you're helping people show up in the world around them is saving lives, letting one person feel seen and known and heard. That's it. I know we're right at time, so I want to wrap this up and say thank you for coming on. Um, thank you for your commitment to human connection and community. Uh, the world needs it now more than ever and you're doing it and I thank you for that. To all our listeners, thank you for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this really heart centered conversation. Look, at the end of the day, volunteer, lead and serve. Don't just settle for the easy conversations. Help people have the hard conversations because that's where trust and belonging and true excellence is found. Go thank someone in your life, but do it the inconvenient way. Sit down and write a letter rather than just clicking a button to sending a gift card. You do these kind of things, you're gonna really shift a lot of hearts and souls of the people around you. Um, so hope you enjoy this episode. If you're in Vermont, give them a call.

Speaker A: Come see us.

Speaker C: Come see us. If you're a leader who's looking for permission just to lean in to what you know is coming, I hope this is it. If you were sent this episode by a friend, go ahead and give them gratitude. This was their way of saying to you, you matter, you belong. I see you. Keep tuning in. If you haven't clicked that subscribe button, go ahead. Uh, join us on this journey. Um, look back through the episode archives. You'll see hundreds of great conversations like this. Um, but yeah, thanks for tuning in. Hope y' all having a phenomenal day on earth. Remember folks, it's your world. Go explore and we'll see you next episode. Bye, everybody.

Speaker A: Thanks, Chris.