Your 2026 Media Mix Playbook: What to Measure, What to Maximize

Speaker A: Hi everybody. Welcome to the Brandians podcast series. Go beyond where we explore the things shaping marketing today and in the future. I'm your host Brian McHale and today we're diving into a topic that seems to be getting more and more complex every day and that's media planning and buying. And I'm joined today by two expert media planners and buyers, uh, two of our Brandians team. Uh, Bill Brecine, vice president of media.

Speaker B: Thank you.

Speaker A: And Danielle Herillo, who is our vice president of digital media. So thank you both for joining. Um, very excited to have this conversation because as you know, media is near and dear to my heart. So uh, so let's, let's dig in. Um, from my perspective, I feel like, um, there is an increasing amount of tension between digital, ah, media and non digital media. Um, so let's start there. Bill, um, I'll start with you. Uh, maybe for our audience it would be good, um, what's your simple kind of interpretation, definition of digital versus non digital media? And then maybe talk a little bit about if you're seeing tension or if you don't agree.

Speaker B: Sure. No, um, my definition and everybody's is slightly different, but it's pretty simple. And digital in my mind is anything that is connected via Internet, uh, delivery. So you know, it doesn't have to be on a computer screen or on a mobile screen, but it's all about that connection. And then, you know, non digital, or in many cases they refer to it, or we refer to it as traditional, would be anything that's connected via uh, you know, a pipe or an actual cable or satellite. So you know, you hear the term linear or terrestrial a lot in the TV and radio world. The, those would be non digital, but if you're getting it through a digital channel, um, like a streaming service, then that, that's digital. So. And as far as the tension, I don't really look at it that way. I think it's more from the standpoint of following the consumer where they're at and making sure that you know, uh, we have a, the right blend of both because they all have their advantages and disadvantages. Um, it's just, you know, every day it's becoming more and more fragmented and complex.

Speaker C: Mhm. And I think too it comes down to, you know, traditional media or non digital media has been around for so long and digital has come up really, really fast. So oftentimes marketers or brands don't know where to fit them together. Right. So it becomes this tension or this push and pull of well, my digital Budget versus my traditional budget when in reality it shouldn't be that way.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's a great point. As far as uh, this isn't really new. I mean digital, non digital. We've been dealing with this for 15 years or longer. Um, um. But like I said in kind of in my opinion back to what you were just elaborating on Danielle, it feels like there is this push pull and there is um, at least from my perspective, a lot more discussion around what is, you know, what is that right? Mix, what, where, where should I be landing with one versus the other. And um, a stat I was reading the other day, um, that I think is kind of maybe a good example of this push pull or tension is uh, CTV spending uh, in uh 2025 hit or 2026 was, is projected to hit about $37 billion. And you know, just what we've experienced with our clients as well as what we've seen, uh, just in looking at the trades and the industry and all that, uh, there definitely is a shift and has been a shift uh, from linear to uh, to streaming. Uh, so Bill, I mean being the mostly uh, non, non digital kind um, of guy here on the panel, does that, is that um, indicate maybe that uh, linear TV might be a niche buy now? Which gosh, when I was coming up in media it wasn't niche. It was all about there's a reason you call it broadcast.

Speaker B: Right. I would say in my opinion, our opinion is um, really and truly if you're doing any form of video, you know, spot commercial type stuff, you really need to be looking at a blend of both because first of all traditional broadcast television and cable television is not dying. Uh, there's always going to be an audience there. Is it shrinking from the standpoint of other. Those viewers are consuming it a different way. It goes back to that connection thing that I was talking about. So I would say that it's more um, about the targeting. What are your targeting objectives? Because ctv, while it is on a living room television for the most part, um, it's catching people that are just viewing it differently. They're viewing it and it's a one to one. So like when I'm watching something on a streaming service and I get served an ad, Danielle could be watching the same program at the same time and she's going to get a completely different ad. So it goes back to that whole targeting thing and we could go down the same path in discussing audio when it comes to terrestrial radio complementing and working alongside digital audio. So mhm.

Speaker C: Because the market is still there. Right. Even though it's shrinking, people are still consuming their media that way. So to your point, it comes down, what's your goal? Who are we trying to hit and how do we ensure that we're truly surrounding them and meeting them where they're at?

Speaker B: Right, right.

Speaker A: So um, Bill, you would say then linear, traditional, there's a defensible position as you're putting plans together.

Speaker B: Oh absolutely. Um, I mean I still look at a lot of your uh, linear and terrestri, uh, delivery, whether, whether it's video or audio, it's still more mass because you're not targeting one to one. So uh, it absolutely still has a role in the overall mix.

Speaker A: So you were talking targeting, following the consumer, et cetera. Um, so let's talk a little bit about the consumer journey.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And um, Danielle, I'll start with you. Um, for years we've talked about purchase, uh, funnel. Where's the consumer in that? Funne. Um, given the way consumers act today, given the digital changes in technology, is it still a funnel? How do you think about it? Is it spaghetti? I mean, what is the journey and how do you think about it?

Speaker C: Yeah, so I really think about it almost as like a roundabout when you're driving. Right. There are many entrance and exit points to what the consumer journey really is. When we think about it, I think that there is potential for a time and place of an actual, like the old school marketing funnel. But now we really have to take into consideration how many touch points really consumers have and how many different places consumers are going to research, um, before buying things. So I really see it as a circle that consumers and brands are just jumping in and out of and trying to meet that consumer where they're trying to find their information really. So it's no longer like a down the funnel type of thing anymore. It really is roundabout, roundabout, roundabout.

Speaker A: And so from a planner's perspective, um, sounds like that would be a lot more difficult, um, in order to figure out where and when to shoot that message out to the consumer.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. It makes things a lot more interesting and it makes it even more imperative that as planners we have clear cut goals and definitions of what we're trying to do with these, um, media plans. Right. What's the objective? Who's that target audience we're trying to hit? Let's m make sure we explore all of the different ways that we can hit them. Um, and let's really influence that purchase where we can.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Um, okay, next topic. Retail. Uh, Media networks, uh, they are not new by any means. Uh, everybody seems to have one these days. The Walmarts targets the Krogers, uh, but their growth is explosive. I mean I uh, read a stat that showed that uh, in 2025 they were estimated there was about $60 billion spent in retail media networks. Um, before we jump into some of what's going on there, anybody want to take a stab at defining retail media network for the audience?

Speaker B: Sure, sure, I can jump in first. Um, I think a lot of people have this misnomer that it's, it's more the digital networks. And I think what brought that on in a lot of people's minds was you know, the rapid growth of Amazon. And you know Amazon basically has its own channel of marketing now that you have to be certified in all of their ways of doing things and whatnot. But it's really and truly if you go back to the pre digital age, it still existed from the form of shopper marketing and point of sale marketing. So I mean, you know, in the CPG category, um, you know I've done work where you're literally doing shelf talk or you know, take one coupons that are right there on you know, at the point of sale for the consumer and that stuff still exists. I mean when you go through the aisles of a Kroger or a Target or a Walmart, um, you know you're being shouted at non stop. Um, the, the difference is is now they've brought on the digital element which is where all the data comes into play and you know, um, you know, customized coupon, uh, offers via digital channels and things like that.

Speaker C: Mhm. And from a digital perspective I look at it like, look at that access to all that first party data that you have that as a brand you might not have access to from your own CRM or your own purchase data. Right. So you get to kind of branch out and target those known purchasers of specific brands or specific products when they're in that shopping mindset. And that data is extremely valuable.

Speaker A: So just kind of building on that. Um, and as Bill said a lot of times people initially think of this as digital but think about non e commerce brands. How should they be thinking about these retail media networks these days?

Speaker C: Yeah, um, I think it's an extremely important tactic to consider when you're looking at your consumer holistically, like I said, or a little bit earlier, if you know, if you don't have access to all of that first party data that you want or need to make your buy a Little bit more tactical. Let's branch out and see where we can reach them. Right. You're, you're able to show your ads or influence your consumer who's already in that shopping mindset. Um, and it's kind of invaluable.

Speaker B: Yeah, I would agree with that. I mean, because again, goes back to what I was saying earlier, um, you know, in a brick and mortar atmosphere, you're still being, you know, uh, talked to and connected with the brands at the point of sale. But now you have all this beauty of loyalty programs and all this other stuff that it, you know, digitally the consumer or the brands or the retailer, I should say, knows what you're buying and that goes back into all of that data set that is then, you know, getting you to repurchase or giving you a discount, uh, in the future.

Speaker C: And from a retailer perspective too, right. Those large retail retailers have really built, um, trust with these consumers. Right. So a lot of the retail networks now offer, you know, influencer programs or paid social programs. So if you as a brand have the ability to partner with one of these larger retailers, it automatically will kind of elevate you because you're holding hands with that well known and well trusted brand that the shoppers are going back to week after week or month after month.

Speaker A: So if I'm hearing you both correctly, um, the retail uh, media networks really are full funnel, right? They're not. You know, oftentimes I think people think of them as that final transaction, that click to buy, which is certainly a part of it. Uh, the transaction piece is key. But retail media networks are full funnel and you can brand as well as you can make a sale, which is, I, um, think a lot of obviously brands are thinking about it that way. But I also believe a lot of brands that haven't gotten involved in retail media networks, uh, maybe have a slight misconception about what they could really get out of these.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. And on a similar note too, when you're running a retailer, ah, network campaign, it's really easy to get kind of blindsided, um, by the return on ad spends that they're able to really um, report back on if you're linked to a specific product. But like we always talk about, it's really important to remember that you know, your retailer network buy is one part of your overall plan. Right. And your overall strategy of how you're trying to move that needle and how you're trying to get that consumer to take the action that you're trying to point them towards.

Speaker B: I mean if you Think about it. I mean some of these retailer networks have gotten so big, like the Amazon,

Speaker C: I mean the Walmart.

Speaker B: Who in the world doesn't have an Amazon? I mean I literally, I don't know that I know anyone that doesn't have an Amazon account these days. Um, and you know, when you think about it, I mean that is, that's you can utilize that data and their network for mass reach tactics going back to, you know, upper funnel versus lower funnel.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: Right, right. Um, all right, shifting gears again. Uh, I started off today by saying media, uh, planning, buying, getting more and more complex. So if you want to talk about complex, let's talk about measurement and attribution. Uh, because this is an area, ah, that um, brands can go crazy, crazy with, especially the big brands when they can afford to do whatever they want to do as far as measurement whenever they want to do it. Um, at our agency, as you know we have our five rules to be nimble and one of our rules is uh, only measure what's actionable. And um, I always like to add in there, um, that just because you can measure doesn't mean that you should because you can start to just have so much to think about that you lose focus and forget what the North Star really is. Um, let's think about, I mentioned big brands but let's think about measurement, attribution as it relates to some smaller and mid sized brands because I feel like they're the ones that struggle most with this just because of what I was saying, they don't have the money to measure everything that they want. Uh, so thinking about those small to mid sized brands, Bill, I'll start with you. Um, uh, what are some practical things that small to mid sized brands can do in this area of measurability and attribution?

Speaker B: Yeah, I would say it all starts with data and what kind of data you can get from um, you know, from your client or from the brand. Um, the more data the better. Um, you know, obviously there's a lot of myths and I don't want to jump ahead but there's a lot of myths that digital is more measurable than non digital. That's true to some extent, but it all goes back to what was the original objective and what you want to, what do you, what do you want to measure? Um, I mean is it final sales? But going back to your, the original question Brian, about um, smaller to midsize brands, it's, you know, it's imperative that you have alignment with your client or your brand that based on the data they can provide you, you have realistic, uh, reporting metrics and it can be as simple as going to just what I would call an old school correlation analysis. So if you're getting very little data and you say it's just weekly sales or something like that, literally just correlating it to your media activity is one of the very, you know, the oldest old school ways of doing it. It's not going to necessarily be as detailed as, you know, m, some of the stuff that you can do in the digital space or some of the stuff that you can do if you have these big, big dollars paying for modeling type of mechanisms and things like that. But it's something, um, because there's a lot of people that feel like traditional media especially, it just isn't measurable. That's not necessarily true.

Speaker A: All right, so Danielle Bill said that digital might have a little bit of an advantage for measurability.

Speaker B: I'll um, admit it,

Speaker A: but sometimes I feel like that gets overhyped. Uh, I don't disagree with it, but. So what do you think? Talk to me about that. Where do you see it getting overhyped? Or maybe you don't agree?

Speaker C: It can to an extent. Because I think we, we think about digital and we think, oh my gosh, I have access to all of this data. Like, oh my goodness, what am I going to do with it? What am I going to do with it? And if we're not meaningful with anything that we're doing, it's just going to fall on deaf ears. Um, I, uh, I like to look at measurement from an incrementality standpoint. So you know, what is the lift or who did we influence that would have not been influenced or would have not purchased anyways? So that' really good way to be able to show effectiveness of digital media. But when it comes to data points, some brands have more closed loop attribution or access to sales data where some brands just don't. Right. They don't have the tech stack or there's not a unified system to be able to do that. And the beauty of digital is that we have a solution to measure. Right? Like we can do foot traffic studies, we can do correlation analysis a little bit different than from a traditional perspective. But there's always something that we're able to do with what we have, which I think is really cool.

Speaker A: The name is probably self explanatory, but I love the example you just used of foot traffic to talk a little bit about that. What's that involve?

Speaker C: So foot traffic Studies are um, they're really fun. They are able to kind of trace an actual store visit or a foot going into the door back to a digital ad that was served at its bare bones. That's what it is.

Speaker A: And when I think about small to mid sized brands who as you said may not have that tech stack, may not have that closed loop, um, it really is in my opinion one of the next best things you can do. Because while you can't say at the end of a foot traffic study that this consumer actually purchased something, you can say that at least they saw the ad and they showed up. Um, and oftentimes uh, as we know being advertising versus operations, especially when you're in kind of the retail or restaurant world, um, we can get them there. You can get the horse to water but you can't make them drink. We can get them there. And oftentimes it's up to operations to create an experience where people are going to buy. Uh, and so I love foot traffic and even when people have closed loop, uh, I think they're still valuable um, uh, in many ways to helping get that full picture of measurement and attribution.

Speaker C: Absolutely. And the ability to optimize current and future campaigns based off of foot traffic that you're driving into store is invaluable for brands. It's wonderful.

Speaker A: Yeah. One of the biggest changes over the last few years that um, I think has an impact on measurability, accountability for media spend, et cetera is privacy and how privacy has changed and what we uh, as advertisers, as marketers are allowed to do, not allowed to do, allowed to track, not allowed to track. Um, how has your world changed Danielle, over the last few years as privacy has changed?

Speaker C: Yeah, it's completely changed measurement, um, not only what we're able to measure but how these bigger companies are offering measurement solutions have completely changed um, based off of privacy issues. But at the end of the day it's moved towards the better. Right. We're looking at ah, um, something like a multi touch attribution measurement model more as a tactic, um, and a methodology versus the end all be all which helps to really prove out why it's important to have digital and non digital and multiple tactics running. Um, so at the end of the day you know, stripping out that one to one measurement kind of threw the industry for a loop. Like what do you mean I can't measure that back to one. But all in all it's really elevated the discussions that we've been able to have within our agencies. Within our brands and to our clients of this is, this is a better model and it's more scalable. Right. Because of the results that you get are really more indicative of kind of the nature of your client and the nature of your consumer and what they're doing.

Speaker A: You mentioned multi touch attribution, so it's oftentimes written as mta if you're reading, if you're reading industry trades or anything. So quick, simple definition of that, just in case somebody doesn't know what it is.

Speaker C: Sure. So in a typical media execution, you're not just running one tactic. Right. You're not just running display. You're running display and CTV and digital audio and multitouch, multi touch attribution, um, really kind of goes back and gives a little bit of credit to whatever was touched or whatever, um, media touched that consumer. It gives a little bit of a piece of the pie of the conversion to that media. And we can see just by explaining it why it's not, you know, a definite solution or it shouldn't be looked at as a definite solution.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: No.

Speaker A: Good, thanks. I think that was a good definition. Um, you talked a little bit about data in your explanation, uh, just right before this. And, uh, privacy data collection, first party data is more and more valuable these days. Um, is first party data king now? Is that in the head chair or how do you think about that? Either of you?

Speaker C: Yeah. Do you want to go or you want to?

Speaker B: I, uh, think it. I don't know that I would say that it's king, but it is absolutely very valuable. And I think it goes back to what the brand is, what the brand's trying to accomplish. And you know, if it is literally just trying to like, let's just take for example, if the objective is frequency of purchase and you already know you have this customer, but you just need to talk to them, uh, more and more and hit them with frequency. It is king in that scenario because it's not necessarily. The objective's not mass awareness and trying to bring in new customers. It's trying to activate an existing customer. So it is absolutely king in my mind there.

Speaker C: Oh yeah, I will die on that hill. That first party data is king. Especially with. I know, because look at all that. It can tell us, right? It can tell us who your consumer is, obviously what they're doing, what they're interacting with, but it also kind of tells you who your consumer isn't. And when we talk about AI, the ability to model based off of your ideal consumer is something that we only dreamed about to this level of specificity like five years ago. So if you have a good base of who your consumer is, the world is your oyster when it comes to like attribution and modeling and just audiences in general.

Speaker A: We've worked um, with a lot of brands that maybe don't have a data capture strategy or a formal data capture strategy. So that's why we do put things in place like football studies and those sorts of things. But thinking about developing that first party data or data capture strategy for a brand, um, once brands have that data, what should they do with it? What are the first things you think they ought to be doing with that data? Because, because you know how it is. I've got a lot of data, I just don't know what to do with it. Yeah. So what's, what's most helpful to people like us?

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: Um, if a brand suddenly starts capturing some data.

Speaker C: Yeah. Um, I'd say the first thing is just ensuring that your data is clean and you have a good taxonomy of setup within your CRM system. Right. Because if you don't, then you just kind of have this mismatch. Um, and then from there it's let's do some testing, right? Let's we know who this is, our consumer, let's port this out to the different technology platforms that we're using and let's make it work smart and hard for us. Because you're not paying for that data, it's yours, right?

Speaker A: Bill, Anything?

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I would agree with that. I mean the big thing for me is it goes back to what I was saying a minute ago. If you're trying to talk to them about repeat purchases and stuff like that, then obviously it's a no brainer. But then also the other thing you can do is, is you hit the nail on the head earlier. I mean, if it's deep data, a deep amount of data, so like you know, millions and millions of customers or even thousands of customers, you can build a Persona or various Personas of what that customer looks like and then go after them in certain ways. Um, so I think, you know, the term we use a lot is lookalikes. Um, and you know, you can't do that if you don't have good data.

Speaker C: Yeah. And from like a creative type of perspective too, you really get the opportunity to test out different messaging. Lots of AB testing can be done on known consumers because you already have a track record of what their behavior is. Right. So you can make that assumption of what they would do in the future. Well, how can we influence that? What messaging works best for them, what type of creative resonates with them?

Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's good. I, I'm such a fan of data and I always have been and it's just been interesting looking at media world over the years on how much better the data is for both digital and non digital. Um, I kind of steered us down the path of some small to mid sized brands and um, what they can do, what they should focus on. But one of the terms I don't want to get out of this section of the podcast without at least defining or acknowledging media, uh, uh, mix modeling, uh, and uh, Bill maybe give us a definition of that. And I know we're not going to go deep into it but just so people understand what that is in case they're hearing about it and they haven't done it.

Speaker B: Sure. Um, yeah, I mean there's all sorts of different offerings out there and setups but it all goes, it's very similar to the multi point or uh, multi touch attribution, um, uh, topic. But one of the things I like about it is many of them out there have the ability to ingest data on weather, economic factors, um, all sorts of different things. So it goes back again to the word data. But the more data you can put into these systems the better outcomes that they can spit out in terms of what's working and what's not. But uh, that is where at least in my experience media mix modeling is where you kind of really pull your digital and your non digital tactics and then all those other outside factors like I mentioned, weather, economy, things like that, that will really give you a good picture of was your mix working and what's working harder for you versus not and then you can optimize your plan in the future.

Speaker A: Yeah, and to your point, I mean it's, it's um, it really is something that does require a significant level of resources because you have to have ah, a lot of data internally, clean data that you can use and uh, get access to. Um, there's a lot, a lot of times we'll work with brands that they know they have data, they're just not quite sure how to get it or get at it or it might not be clean. Uh, and then also a lot of those models are not cheap and so you have to be ready and willing to make that investment. So it's a great tool. Um, it's not the only thing out there but it's a great tool. But it really is kind of a next level versus Some of the other things we were talking about. Um, so speaking of media mix. Oh, go ahead, Bill. Did you have something else before I jump? So, speaking of media mix, uh, let's uh, put our 2026 hats on for a second future down the road. Look, um, what are you all seeing, uh, as maybe making or being some changes that are happening in 2026 relative to a media mix?

Speaker B: Yeah, you want me to go first?

Speaker C: I'll go first. Um, I think we are seeing a heavier lean to digital than we have in the past.

Speaker A: Um, the digital person said that.

Speaker C: Digital.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: You're not getting any more of my budget.

Speaker C: I will take it, Bill.

Speaker A: That's right, yeah.

Speaker C: Um, and I think it's because we do have the customization. Right. Um, we're able to get down very, very granular with what can be done. So heavier switch to digital. I think social, paid social is playing a heavier role than it ever has in the past, just due to a lot of the economic factors that consumers are dealing with right now. You know, there's a mistrust of bigger brands or bigger, bigger kind of splashier ad campaigns, things like that. So that, that one to one of like an influencer type of thing is very, very beneficial.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: For me, I think it goes back to that customer journey and understanding your, your customer and what, how your customer spending their day in terms of media, um, consumption. Because while you know, it over, if you go back over the last five to 10 years, every year the, you know, the tipping point has gotten a little bit more digital, a little bit more digital. And that's, that's simply just because that's how people are consuming it. So, you know, the other thing is that I wanted to touch on is, um, you know, you hear the word programmatic a lot mainly in your space, Danielle. But, um, more and more the traditional side is, is something that you can now access inventory from a programmatic standpoint. So, you know, that's going to just blur the lines and make the gray area, even that, that much more, uh, between the two. Because, you know, again, if I'm, you know, if I'm going out and buying terrestrial radio programmatically through some sort of software service that, that, you know, allows me to do that. It's still not digital media, it's still terrestrial. It's just in how we're purchasing it into the end consumer, they don't care. So. But I think those are the things you have to, that we are increasingly having to take into consideration as we plan now and into the future.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And that's why Bill and I work so closely when we're planning anything, because it really is truly just a media budget and a goal. Right. How are we reaching that consumer? It doesn't matter whether it's digital or non digital. It's what's going to move that needle for our clients. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah. And that's why everybody at our place and all of our clients have heard me, you know, for years now, and I'll continue to say it is that, you know, if you're doing television, you should be doing CTV with it. If you're doing terrestrial radio, you should be doing digital audio with it. So.

Speaker A: Yeah. So thinking about, about trends, um, anybody that knows me knows I can't get through a podcast without mentioning the two letters AI. And, um. So what's your opinions on realistically, the impact AI may have on media planning or buying this year?

Speaker C: Yeah. From a digital perspective, um, I love AI.

Speaker A: Because you've been working with it for 15, 20 years. Right? Optimizing digital media from the very beginning.

Speaker C: Exactly. All of the DSPs that we use have custom elements, algorithms. It's just kind of been rebranded. Right. But from a digital perspective, it's starting to truly make the research portion or the data combing portion so much easier for myself and my team. You know, we can rely on these tools to help us do our job like 10 times more efficiently in cases. In some cases. So we're able to do more of the strategy and more of the fun stuff versus trying to comb through the data for specific trends. Um, I think it's going to continue to help in that aspect.

Speaker B: Yeah, I would say, I mean, I think I agree totally with what you said from the traditional side.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I mean, for me it's all, you use the term tools, AI tools. And I, you know, I don't know that I hope and I don't think that the human element's ever going to leave our profession in terms of, I mean, we're always going to have to help guide it. Where I'm excited about AI is, is the tool side of things, the optimization helping, more efficiency in the reporting, things like that. It's more on that side than it is on the true brains behind how much should go to this channel versus that channel in the planning phase.

Speaker A: So, Bill, you kind of jumped into the area that I was going to ask next of like, I think a lot of people secretly wonder, um, can you just give AI your budget and tell it to go do a media buy? Sounding like you both are Saying that's not happening.

Speaker B: No, I mean, what I would say to that is, can you, or could you possibly. But would I trust it or. Yeah, should you, or would I trust it, um, with, you know, without having. That's actually intriguing to think about, you know, as just a fun experiment to see what it would come back with. But, you know, again, I still think you're going to have to have that human element to, you know, to at least put the fine points on things and fine tune things before you ever actually go to market.

Speaker C: Yeah. And from an execution standpoint, I don't see a world where there's never going to be a human interaction point. Anybody who's ever worked in any of these large, um, software services and been part of a beta type of test or seen a new AI rollouts knows that they can help. But would I trust it with a whole media budget? Absolutely not. Because it doesn't get the whole picture. Right. When you're working in a walled garden, your systems truly only see like this much of what you're planning or what you're doing. And there's always an overarching goal. It's only one little piece.

Speaker B: And I know we're on a media podcast and not creative, and by no means am I creative, but I know I read a lot about the consumer distrust when they feel like they are seeing something from a messaging and creative standpoint that is purely AI, um, I know I immediately discount it. So. And in my experience is, you know, really in the social media space, if I see something, I can usually tell if it's AI or not.

Speaker A: So, yeah, yeah, it's interesting. I think, I think that will, uh, I agree with what you're saying, but I think it will, um, continue to evolve and, uh, it'll just depend on the brand. If you're a brand that is all about authenticity, if you're a brand that's all about transparency and suddenly you're doing campaigns that are obviously AI creative, I think you've just created a huge disconnect and a high level of confusion with your customer. Uh, but if you are a brand that's kind of out there having fun doing whatever, um, that might appeal, you know, it might appeal because you can do some pretty fun and wacky things. Um, what I think is interesting in the creative space right now is, um, it can be less expensive, it can be faster to do that, which is oftentimes why people have gravitated to AI in general, which I think is the absolute wrong reason to gravitate to AI. Uh, but, um, it isn't always cheaper, faster, less expensive. Um, you look at some of the Coca Cola ads that they've been running, which are interesting, you know, and I don't know, uh, if I'm really a fan of them or not. Um, but, um, when you read how much they spent to put those together, they could have done a pretty nice spot for less money. Um, the normal way, the human way, I should say. Not the normal way, but anyway, you're right. We're on a media podcast. We're not on the creative podcast. But like I said, you start talking AI and I'll. How long do we have? I'll be happy to sit here. All right, so our last. Our last segment here, uh, is something we haven't tried before, and it's. We're just calling it Myth Busters. So what I'm going to do is give you each a couple myths. Um, and, uh. Or maybe they're not. You have to answer. Um, but, uh, just top of your head, quick answers. Uh, some of these have come up already today. Uh, some haven't. So, Bill, you're on the hot seat first. Um, traditional media is dying.

Speaker B: Absolutely not. Um, no, I mean, we've talked about that already. Um, you know, a lot here today. About. Again, it goes back to every media type, whether it's traditional or digital, has pros and cons and. And, um. So I would say absolutely not. Um, you know, I always like to say I've been asked before, and I thought maybe this was one of the things you might ask me. Maybe it's the next one. But is, um, you know, is there anything that is totally bulletproof over time? And if you think about it, I mean, the oldest form of advertising is out of home, you know, storefront signage, all the way back before, you know, anybody ever thought there was going to be, um, you know, landlines, but much, uh, less mobile phones and things like that. But my point on that is I don't see that going away. That's never, ever, ever going to die. And people are always going to consume video content on some form of television, whether it's a tablet, old school television, you know, and you're always going to have an audience, whether it's connected through that cable or satellite or through the, you know, through the Internet. So I feel like the answer to that is no, it's never. It's not going to completely die. Is it going to shift? Absolutely, it does. Every day. Yeah.

Speaker C: Like, uh, it's getting more creative and more experiential.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So sorry. So that's my. I just busted that myth, but in a long form.

Speaker A: Good. That's good. Okay. Myth. No, Danielle, Retail media is only for E commerce brands.

Speaker C: No, sir. No myth. Wrong. Um, depending on your goal and the KPIs you're trying to hit, it can have a place in, uh, a lot of the media plans that we work on and for a lot of brands. But it all just comes down to what's the goal? Right. Who are we trying to reach and what are we trying to get them to do?

Speaker A: Yep. All right, Bill, you can't measure non digital media.

Speaker B: I can't say what I want to say. I got to keep this family friendly. No, absolutely, you can measure it. Um, it goes back to what I was saying earlier about the old, old, old school.

Speaker A: School.

Speaker B: Just simple correlation analysis. It's all in how you set up what kind of KPIs and expectations you have or that you want to get out of a campaign. Um, so, yeah, I mean, it's measurable. Is it? Again, I'm going to give digital or not. Is it as measurable? Probably not, but it is. You know, there's, uh, not a thing out there that you can do that you can at least make some guesstimates or hypothesis, educated guesses on and how it's working for you.

Speaker A: Good. All right, last one, Danielle. AI eliminates the need for human media partners.

Speaker C: No, not never. Um, it makes, uh, for a wonderful tool. Wonderful tools in our arsenal to do what we do better. But the human still has to be at the forefront.

Speaker A: Great. Well, good. Well, Bill, Danielle, thank you so much for joining me today on this episode of Go Beyond. And I want to thank you all for watching. Feel free to subscribe or like, um, uh, our episode. And, uh, speaking of subscribing in the, uh, show notes, you can also. We'll also have a link where you could subscribe to our monthly newsletter. So please do that if you're interested. And also feel free to leave, uh, any comments you'd like. We'd, uh, love to hear from you. So, uh, thanks again for watching and, uh, we look forward to seeing you on the next episode of God Beyond.