What Slows Teams Down and How to Get Moving Again

Speaker A: Hi, everybody, and welcome to the Brandian's podcast series, Go beyond, where we take a look at the issues facing marketers today and in the future. I'm your host, Brian McHale, and today's topic is one that is frankly very common, but it also can get extremely expensive when it happens. And the topic is when teams slow down, how do you help them get moving again? Uh, and joining me today, I'm, um, happy to have a couple members of the brandiance team. Uh, Jess Poe, who's vice president of client leadership, and Sarah Boland, who's an account director at Brandian. So thank you both for, uh, joining me today on the podcast. I think this will be a great conversation because I know that both of you work so closely with teams, both internal and client teams, uh, and I'm sure we never get stuck. But, um, what I'm hoping to go through today really is based on my experience. There are, um, a variety of reasons why teams get stuck, but typically it's not because maybe there's no talent on the team or, uh, people don't care. It's normally just because of kind of human dynamics. Maybe there's too much coming at people or, uh, so they might have too many choices, or there might be some sort of, um, internal politics that's happening, or people are trying to be too perfect with the work. Um, so there are a variety of things. And so I'm hoping today we can go through those types of things. And I'd love to just hear your experiences and, uh, what you've done to help kind of get teams moving again. So, um, uh, the first topic that we'll dig into under that kind of umbrella of stall points is decision paralysis. I, um, I always think of this, I always have in my mind when I think of decision paralysis with a team of an airplane that's just continuously circling the airport and it's not landing. Um, and, you know, from a business standpoint, that can be because there's maybe too many opinions or too many options. So, uh, Jess, when you, um, uh, when you see a team starting to kind of get into decision paralysis, what would you say is kind of at the root cause of that?

Speaker B: And.

Speaker A: And do you have, like, a first move, uh, to try to get that team going again?

Speaker B: I do. I do. Uh, Brian, thanks. Thanks for having me. And I would. I would say the biggest thing is to stop and to realize, you know, what's the objective, you know, that's the over. Because I understand that that airplane analogy that, that you just said, um, I feel like a lot of times, you know, whether it's your client, whether it's internal, there's so much going on, there's so much information. So our job, I feel like, is to simplify that with rationale. I, um, would say, you know, there's so many decisions that have to be made, there's so much information. And so how do we strategically help, um, the client or, you know, help the team focus on a couple paths. And I think that's our job, is to simplify it, but also to make sure, hey, this is the right way to go and we can go a few different options, but narrowing it down from, you know, 15, 20 different avenues to two or three and simplifying that rationale.

Speaker A: Yeah, I like the idea of making sure you have that rationale, uh, so that it's really helping people think through the different options. So Sarah, where do you see this decision paralysis kind of popping up?

Speaker C: I mean, I would agree with what Jess said in terms of it's either a lack of focus, so simplification and streamlining to help like define what, what are we trying to answer here? What decision do we need? Um, or it could be a lack of confidence. And that's where that rationale, tying it back to the original objective helps them. Many times I think they might, depending on if you're dealing with, um, a team member or the actual end approval. Because often if you're not talking directly to the person who's the a of it, if you will, the ultimate approver, you might. The person that you're talking to could be second guessing. So if you just help them even understand, like what do you need to sell it into your team internally? So often it could just be providing the tools or arming them. Back to what you said, Jess, about rationale, just arming them with really simple rationale for why a solution, um, would be, uh, good to go forward with and give them that confidence.

Speaker A: And some of what you're talking about goes back to what I said earlier. Just, it's normal human dynamics. I mean, people are working through things in their head and you're trying to help them work through it in a more efficient manner. But when we get human dynamics as part of it, I, um, know sometimes we can. It's a natural, uh, urge to want to try to help in a certain way. Any examples of things that maybe m people try to do to help, um, work through decision paralysis, but it actually is hurting,

Speaker B: I would say, um, one thing is knowing all the details. Right. And I feel like let's call it. Your client doesn't need to know all the ins and outs and everything, but they need to know. They need to weigh in on the strategy. Right. And to give them two to three with that rationale, two to three different options with that rationale. And pick it and be confident. You brought up the word, the confidence and the clarity. And I think that's something that's really important with the client, is to make sure that they have that confidence and the rationale behind it to move forward. And you don't need to know all the nitty gritties along the way. But as long as that strategy is there and they're on board with that, I think you're good to go.

Speaker A: Yeah. So the first stall point, decision paralysis, has to do with maybe too many options. Um, the second stall point isn't necessarily about options, but it's about prioritization. And, um, no surprise, uh, priorities shift from time to time. Uh, whether it's with a, uh, big or a small brand, everybody deals with it. And it might be because of, um, uh, something a competitor did. It might be because of just some internal fire drill that the client, uh, the client is experiencing. Uh, so you know it's coming, you just don't know when. Uh, and so, Sarah, I'll start with you on this one. Um, so when. When priorities are shifting midstream, um, what do you do to keep that momentum going without making a client feel like, oh, they just broke the process.

Speaker B: Hm.

Speaker C: Well, you made a great point when you were saying, um, you know, it's coming, you just don't know when. I think in our business, and that is, you know, brand building and working in a competitive market where things do change, um, we have processes. And you said, how do you make it feel like they didn't break it? I think that's just being really clear about. We do have a process, but it's more of a roadmap. It's not rigid, but. And it can't be in our business. We have to be able to be flexible and nimble. So I think when priorities shift. Not if priorities shift because it's, uh, inevitable, we just reassure the client that we can be nimble and kind of. I think timely communication is important so you are able to have that dialogue sooner than later so you can impact. Right. So timely communication, then a quick realignment of what is it we're trying to do? We were trying to do this. Now what we're trying to do, and then I think an assessment of what can we reapply so you could be working through a project or a campaign and priorities shift, but not all is lost. So I think uh, especially when you're working with a long term client where you really know like generally what the end benefit of, of that service or product is, it can be reapplied. So kind of salvaging. It's not going back to square one. It's not going back. Uh, it's just saying, okay, these things we can keep great. And these things we need to pivot. And whether that's the media tactic or the creative or messaging, I think just reassuring them that like we got it right, we can work with you and move through it. Um, works, works well.

Speaker B: Yeah. I feel like um, being open that things are going to shift sometimes I'm a little bit too optimistic and I like that because then the end goal, it's even stronger. Right. So being open, you said pivoting, being flexible, I think that's huge.

Speaker C: And I often hear from clients when this happened. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. And my answer is always the same, like, don't be sorry. This is just the way, this is just how things go. Like, we get it and uh, the we is back to like we're on the same team, we have a shared goal. It's not, you did this to me. Oh, you changed your mind. It's not a problem. Things change and we're here to be part of your team and pivot when you need to pivot and be efficient and uh, just realign expectations and that

Speaker B: end goal can be a lot stronger after that pivot.

Speaker C: Yep.

Speaker A: I always like to remind our teams, um, because when shifting priorities happen, uh, our internal team can get frustrated because oftentimes we don't have the full picture. So it's like, oh my gosh. So I always try to remind our teams, uh, that uh, what the client is dealing with as it relates to our world, the advertising and marketing world, is just a sliver, a small sliver of what else is on their desk in any given day. And so it's best for us to continue to try to a, you know, recognize that they've got a lot on their plate. Uh, but then b, try, try to ask the questions that will get you that bigger, more full picture so that you can be of help in as best way as possible. So do you have Sarah kind of talked about her process. Do you have any go to ways that you try to anchor teams when priorities are shifting midstream, kind of similar

Speaker B: to what you just Said I kind of go into detail with our intern team to say, you know, sometimes the client is going from a HR meeting to a budget meeting to an operations meeting to the. And then all of a sudden they get to our. They get to our meeting. Right. And so that kind of goes back to what we were talking about of really simplifying the process for them. It kind of goes back to, you know, question number one with that, with that defining those one to two to three different options. And if things shift, if they pivot, be open about it, be flexible about it, but really define, okay, remember, what does success look like? What are you trying to accomplish? And instead of coming up with 10 or 15 different ways and put it back on the client, no, you know, like, we should be those, those experts in the field and provide that simplified recommendations, um, for the client.

Speaker A: Yeah, agree. Okay. So I want to. I want to shift. So we have shifting priorities. I want to shift to, uh, another stall point that is often kind of under the radar or underneath the surface, I guess is a better way to say it under the surface that, that we don'. See initially. And that is an internal misalignment, or it could be some level of internal politics that might be going on at a brand that we're working with. Um, and Sarah, you sort of mentioned this earlier, um, when you talked about having the decision maker in the room. Some of this internal misalignment can be because there aren't the right. You're not working with the right decision maker, you don't have the right people in the room, or there's something political going on that you have no idea. So, um, Jessica, um, as you think about internal misalignment, when you start to sense that that is slowing work down, because obviously clients have deadlines, and they're not changing their deadlines because of internal misalignment. But when we start seeing that slowdown, is there anything that you do to try to get at all right, what's causing this slowdown? Um, and should I be leaning in or should I be leaning back on this one?

Speaker B: I think it's a case by case situation. But no matter what I would say, I'm going to use my basketball reference, call a timeout. A lot of times, get everybody in the room, get everybody on a call, because if I'm hearing or seeing that misalignment, um, we got to hash it out, and we got to hash it out together. So everybody is on the same page. So more times than not, definitely throw up the flag or call the Timeout, uh, early on so that we can all level set and get on the same page. Um, and then. Or if you can't do that, because then you might have to pivot, uh, get everybody that's on the group, get what they want to do, what they think is the objective, and then get everybody in the room and define, hey, I heard this, but I also heard this. Let's hash it out together.

Speaker A: Do you have anything to add on?

Speaker C: I mean, I would say when trying to identify what's the root cause, my go to is just, just ask, just plainly ask. Like, I sense there's some like, um, not everybody's aligned or internal discussion what's going on. And uh, I mean, you clearly have to have the relationship and the trust built with the client. But if it's a long term client, just saying what's going on, because that can help. It might be something completely unrelated to the work itself and some other internal something happening where we can help them, um, navigate that, or we just know, hey, this has nothing to do with the campaign, has nothing to do with anything we've presented. It's just something happening internally and we need to pause and we're okay to pause. So you asked, when do you step back? Sometimes there's nothing an agency partner can do in this scenario. So it's just be patient and wait and say, okay, we're here and ready when you are.

Speaker A: Yeah, go ahead, Jess.

Speaker B: No, I was gonna say I'm glad you said that relationship, because it's, uh, having that relationship and being comfortable not only asking, you know, I'm hearing different things. But the why behind that, Right? I think the why behind, well, how come you think it's this? You know, there's A and then there's B. I think understanding that why I think is really helpful.

Speaker A: And you mentioned trust and you brought that up. And in my experience, one of the biggest things that we can do or anybody can do in any relationship to, uh, develop that trust is to be transparent. Absolutely. Um, whether that's a new relationship, whether that's a continuing relationship. Uh, and I've found that if you start off being transparent and continue that, that trust just naturally builds because there's never any question about what may or may not be your motive for recommending something or saying something or doing something. Um, and I've also found that when we're transparent with clients, they tend to be transparent with us. Um, and so when we get into this misalignment, if there's something going on within their organization that we typically can't see, they'll share, uh, they'll tell us because there is a built up trust, there is a natural transparency that's been happening. So I don't know how you all think about, I know you all practice transparency because it's something that we do at the agency, but, um, how do you think about transparency as you're starting to build relationships and how important that is to it?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think it's just back to what you said. Leading by example. So always being. And you know, we all want to be, um, on top of the details and get everything quote unquote right. We don't want to mess up, but sometimes we do. By we, it's, you know, the team or something we're working on and I find, find a really quick way you don't want to do it. But when it happens, if you did, if, if there was a misstep, you admit it immediately. Like, hey, we were going down this path and it's just not working. It's not right. Uh, or there was a mistake somewhere. I think that sets the stage for you're going to admit if something's not working and then when you are recommending it, it feels that much more authentic because they know you wouldn't recommend it if it wasn't going to work.

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: Good point.

Speaker B: Yeah, I would say also I'm taking it two steps back, but finding the right partner, the right client. Right. And really believing in them and believing in what they stand for, I think that really helps, um, in terms of being passionate about it. Hopefully the client's passionate about their work. Um, and then we are as well. I feel like we are with our clients as well. So I think it kind of, that's two steps back, but I think that helps along the way with that relationship.

Speaker A: I think that's a great point because, um, I always strive to find brands that we work with that share our values, share agency values with brand values. Because if you're aligned there, the decision making process tends to be very easy, at least as easy as it can be. Uh, because everybody kind of understands where each other's coming from. And there's not this. I wonder why these guys are thinking that. I wonder if they're thinking like my brand or if they value what I value. Once you have that alignment, it gets back and just continues to build that trust and transparency.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker C: And one thing you said made me think of that. Like I use the example of if we messed up, a better example would we don't.

Speaker A: We don't we don't mess up.

Speaker C: A better example would be. And it goes back to honesty. It's still shared values and honesty being one of those. We use the word transparency in the business world, but it's really just honesty. Um, and when a client comes to us with a, ah, objective and maybe we are not the experts to meet that objective. Just saying, like, hey, we're here to help find the expert and partner with the expert. So we've had projects where, um, they fall within our core competencies, but some areas don't. And we have to find a, uh, partner to work with to deliver for our clients. So just being really honest about where we are the experts and where we're not is, um, I think part of that shared values and honest communication.

Speaker B: Last thing I would add to that, and I feel like this goes a long way, is always matching the client's sense of urgency. If it's important to them, it's important to us and vice versa. And that kind of goes back to those core values. So, um, a lot of times we hear from the client, hey, this is high on the priority list. Okay, then it's high on our priority list. Right. Matching that sense of urgency is, I think, something that we definitely strive to do as a team.

Speaker A: Yeah. And Sarah, building on what you were saying about kind of knowing who you are and being authentic, I, um, feel like that's really important for any, I'll call it agency or professional service type business is to be authentic, be who you are. Um, we have one business over the years because we were authentic and said, I think you're looking for this and we're not that. And they've come back and said, I appreciate that honesty, uh, and really openness. Can you still help us solve this? And it's like, yeah, I've got a best in class partner that I can bring in that will work with us. And so I think it's refreshing to most brands when professional service providers are that open and honest about who they are. Um, uh, Sarah, earlier you mentioned, um, making mistakes, which of course we clarified, we don't do. But one of the last, one of the last stall points that I wanted to talk about has to do with perfection. And we have, you, uh, know, we have our five rules to be nimble at the agency and one of them has to do with don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Uh, and I have seen over the years a lot of brands slow down work because they are striving to be perfect. And my interpretation often of that Is that they are, uh, it's a safer route to go. I mean, it's hard to get there, but it's a safer route to go because if you're perfect, nothing's gonna go wrong. But let's be honest, right? I mean, and when is good good enough? And I've also seen it kind of

Speaker B: um,

Speaker A: masquerade in things that are like, hey, we've got do, we've got to get to this level, otherwise the work isn't any good. Well, that doesn't, you know, good is good and that doesn't mean poor quality, but good is still good. And so when you're dealing with a brand where that perfection pressure starts to show up, is there anything that you do to try to help the brand think through, uh, when good is good enough so that the work can continue to keep moving forward in the way that they need it to?

Speaker C: Um, definitely. And I think that is human nature to want to get it just right, you know, and you can always. There's. And there's some companies or brands where that's their culture. There's always room for improvement. So being able to demonstrate back to. It's not even just saying, oh, it's good enough because maybe that doesn't sound so great. But reframing good enough to it meets the business need. What's the business objective? What's the business need? This meets it. And so just going, tying it back to this works. Um, also, um, one of the things we do and unfortunately with digital advertising, it allows you to really be um, nimble and change and um, kind of learn real time. So having um, kind of the opportunity to test and learn with creative, I think helps ease some of that perfection pressure. We can have a few variations and put them in, uh, you know, put them in market run as digital ads, a few versions. We sometimes call it a B. Testing, um, or test and learn. But the idea is you can have a few options and get the real market, real time performance data back to help lead how you continue. Um, we do that often with our brands. So um, it's a way to make a client feel confident with the options going in that they can optimize as they go without waiting to launch and get messaging out there.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Anything to add, Jess?

Speaker B: Yeah, we always talk about kind of that 80, 20 rule a lot of times. Right. Um, if there's seven steps to a project, you know, and really defining what those are, uh, step two, if it's 80% there, you don't want it to be. You don't want, ah, it to be 100%. So things get delayed by the time you get to step seven. So I think that 80, 20 rule just to keep things moving, keep that momentum going, I think is something in the back of the mind that we always. We talk about.

Speaker A: Yeah. Because I think what we're talking about really is, you know, we're not going to compromise quality. We're never going to do something that is not quality, that doesn't meet brand standards, that doesn't put the brand in a good light. Uh, but you also have to balance. How is this being seen, used, um, and what are the time and resource commitments that are necessary to go into. Go into whatever it is that we're putting together. Uh, and sometimes brands can't afford perfect. Um, but we would, like I said, never want to put something out there that compromises their brand or frankly, our brand. I mean, we feel just as proud of the work as they do when it's out there. So those are our four stall points I want to jump into now in the last part of this podcast today, uh, something that we started last week, last month, which is our myth busters. So I've got a couple of myths for each of you here. I want to read out and, uh, want to get your quick gut reaction to them. Um, and so we'll go from there. So, uh, all right, Jess, I'll start with you. So if a client's stuck, it's because they don't have enough information.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's. I would say that's not accurate. A lot of times, clients don't need more information. Clients don't need another deck. You know, they'll say this. What I don't like doing is sending over a 40, 50 slide deck and just throw it over the fence and say, here you go. Figure it out. Right. Um, I think that kind of goes back to that first topic that we were talking about. The clarity. The clarity and giving the client, hey, we can give you rationale, we can give you information, but here's two recommendations, and we can go either one, here's the rationale behind it. Uh, let's talk about which one makes, uh, more sense and what can hit the objective a little bit more. So, uh, more information is not always the answer. Good.

Speaker A: All right, Sarah. Empathy means agreeing with the client.

Speaker C: No, that is not true. I think empathy is just understanding where the client is coming from. Whether that's. It could be a personal motivator, it could be an internal dynamic. But where are they coming from? And then how can we help them based on that information? Often, if there. If there's a shared goal and objective, you can give them your rationale and connect it back to knowing you know where they're coming from. So referencing that, um, so they feel like they've been listened to. So listening and kind of replaying back what you heard to them, reassuring them that you understand that point of view, but doesn't mean agreement.

Speaker A: Right. So myth, myth, myth.

Speaker C: Oh, was that the answer?

Speaker A: No, no, not at all. I'm just saying. You're right. Um, all right, Jess, myth here, where you tell me if it's not.

Speaker B: Is this a trick question?

Speaker A: Good strategy requires slowing things down.

Speaker B: Myth, strategy and speed are not the same. Right. You can do both at the same time. Now, uh, I'll also backtrack what I just said. There are times where you do need to slow down to make sure that there aren't mistakes and need to really understand the process. But you can provide strategy quickly, and that goes back to making sure that you understand the objective, the clarity, everything about that. So they're not, uh, one or the other. They can coexist.

Speaker A: Good. Yeah, I think. And, uh, I'm just smiling because I think about some different people I've worked with over years, and there, uh, are some people that wouldn't agree with you. They would say, gosh, in order to do good strategy, I've got to take a lot of time, and that's not the business world anymore. You cannot. You cannot do that. You can't rely on that. Now, there are some things that take time. Uh, but like you said, strategy is not speed.

Speaker B: Strategy is not speed. Uh, they're definitely separate. And, uh, as long as you have those clear goals and you know that you can hit the strategy, you can do it quickly. Yeah.

Speaker A: All right, Sarah, myth or not, internal alignment is the client's responsibility, not the agency's.

Speaker C: Myth. And there's very few things I would say are only the client's responsibilities. I think the way we approach a, uh, relationship, it's a sh. I say an extension of their team. So it's not client versus agency. And what are their. There are certain tasks we each do, but at the end, uh, it's a shared goal and a shared vision, and having alignment along the way is everyone's responsibility. I think what we do like, as in terms of client leadership, is just ask the right questions. So to get that clarity now.

Speaker B: Um. Good.

Speaker A: Good. Well, that. That wraps up this episode of Go Beyond. And I want to thank Jess and Sarah for joining me today. Appreciate the conversation. I think it was a good one. And I think we you all threw out some great nuggets that people can take take away and hopefully help their teams continue to move forward. Um, if you like the podcast, please feel free to like and comment. We'd love to hear from you. Uh, and also please hit the subscribe button. And speaking of subscribing, we also have, uh, a newsletter at brandiance that you can subscribe to that comes out monthly, and those are in the show notes as well. So, uh, thanks again for watching this episode of Go beyond and, uh, stay tuned for more episodes in the future.

Speaker B: There.