From the Boardroom to Behind the Wheel: Joe Joseph, JD Refrigerated Transport

Speaker A: How does J.D. actually stand out? Transport can be a crowded market. Right. So how do you differentiate?

Speaker B: First contract I remember uh, it was a produce contract in the market. I remember calling one of the agents in the market and saying what time would you like me to deliver? And he laughed and he said the prior truck company just dropped it on my doorstep three hours before I got there. And it sat outside. I ended up picking up three or four customers off the back of that.

Speaker A: Thanks for, thanks for joining, really appreciate your, your time. So um, I guess for people who don't know, why don't you give us a bit of a high level overview on, on JD and, and yourself and, and kind of how you came to be.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's good, good starting point I guess. I, I started life as an accountant with, with uh, Ernst and Young and then spent 20 years um, in consumer goods. But I guess you'd say on the other side of the fence. Um, so when I started this business 14 years ago, um, I came from the perspective of, of knowing you know, what I liked and, and what I didn't like about uh, you know, logistics and the supply chain from, from the manufacturing side of the fence, um, into sort of well okay, um, here's an opportunity to uh, you know, to start something and uh, and start with you know, with those sort of key, key parameters as, as the basis of the business. Um but I also the other catalyst for it was that I wanted to, to. I was living in Melbourne at the time and uh, my wife and I wanted to start having kids and I uh, wanted my kids to grow up with their cousins like I did. And my family are all Brisbane. You know, I come from Brisbane originally. So at that point I was thinking what do I do? And in the consumer goods industry there wasn't a lot of senior roles, you know, CEO type roles, um, in manufacturing businesses based up in uh, in Brisbane. Most of them were down sort of Sydney and Melbourne way. So in order to uh, to relocate myself back to Brisbane I had to start a business and uh, and logistics was it, or trucking was it? Um, how did that happen? I guess it probably for four years before that I, I uh, was the chief operating officer for a company, Aussie Farmers Direct. And um, and what I did was I saw an opportunity in these franchise delivery rounds of theirs, um, to sort of start a business on the side. So that was my first foray into, into sort of running trucks and they were little, two pallet trucks doing into the home, um, deliveries for, for Aussie Farmers Direct. So I I brought on a mate of mine who was looking for something to do to run them and, uh, I sort of funded it. And um, that's how we sort of started. And um. It wasn't until the collapse of Aussie Farmers Direct, which coincided with me wanting to come back to Brisbane, um, that I saw an opportunity, um, to. Well, it's funny you see an opportunity out of the collapse of a business. But six, um, months prior to their collapse, I'd been up there doing a review and I'd seen all these trucks. We were doing this out, all the outbound deliveries. But I saw all these trucks coming inbound and I thought, well, if we're doing the outbound stuff, why can't we do the inbound stuff? So I went to Aussie Farmers Direct and convinced them to let me put a 14 pallet truck on a bigger truck on, um, to do some of their inbound deliveries, their milk, their produce, et cetera. And um. And in six months it's sort of, yeah, we made good money. And uh, and I thought, you know what, we could climb the, you know, it's a higher barrier to entry with more expensive trucks. And we're up against anyone who, who could afford a secondhand two pallet truck and, you know, $50,000 truck and was work below the award wage. And I thought, well, let's, let's give this a go. So once that sort of proven itself, Aussie Farmers went bust. But I was actually overseas at the time. I was in a holiday over in Japan and I got the phone call saying, quick, get back here and you've got to get your trucks off of site. So, you know, padlock the gates. And um, by the time I hopped off that flight on the way home, I thought, you know what, I'll sell off all those little ones. The only way I'll be disappointed if I don't take that 114 pallet truck and replicate that, you know, 50 times. And that's essentially what we did. There was a, ah, I proved that there was, you know, with my sort of background on the other side of the fence. There was a, you know, it was an opportunity to get in there, get my head under the hood with people that I knew and deliver a, um, a solution, a logistics solution for them under a partnership type model. And that's essentially what we've, what we've done, uh, with the JD business. We took that 114 pallet truck and uh, my first major account was with someone that my network was strong from, from my prior, prior life. So to speak and uh, where people would let me get my head under the hood. I was able to, to, to pull together a solution that worked and that's, that's how we built the JD business.

Speaker A: Nice. That's a really good story. Those early days, like looking back, what do you reckon was some of the toughest parts of those first few years for you? Building the business?

Speaker B: I hopped in a truck. So I went um, when I left, uh, Yoke essentially came out of the boardroom and hopped in a truck for eight months and drove the, ah, drove the truck through the day and uh, you know, I was invoicing at night and we were invoicing on a, you know, out of spreadsheets and on, on you know, Word Documents and uh, which is, you know, totally foreign from where I'd sort of been before. So I guess the, the sort of shock in change of what I was doing, um, in hindsight it was massive in the moment. It, you know, I loved every second of it because I was sort of learning and uh, and uh, and building along the way. But it's a whole other realm of, of complications that you uh, that you're fronting into. Um, and in the early stages keeping, you know, keeping staff when uh, you know, working out what, what I, what I would spend my time doing versus paying others to, to uh, to do. It's, it's, it's you know, in hindsight it's yo. I'm super proud of that journey. But um, but yeah, it wasn't easy at all.

Speaker A: Yeah. And for you to get into the refrigerated transport side was that purely because of your past life at Aussie Farmers Direct and the experience there with, with some of the produce.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yep. Definitely, definitely that, that was, it was born off the back of you know, milk and produce, uh, deliveries. But I also knew that in any industry you've got what. What is essentially a commodity range and you, and you. You. The more you can climb the, the margin ladder, so to speak, by doing value added, you know, pieces of uh, business, the, you know, the more profitable you can be. So, so for me I didn't want to just go into sort of, you know, line all dry freight. Um, it uh, it had to be sort of somewhere where I could add value which I wish people were prepared to pay for.

Speaker A: Yeah. And, and I guess jumping into any transport business but let alone, you know, finding a niche in cold chain, there's always a level of competition um, out in the market I suppose. But back in those days like, and even now how do you differentiate and, or, or how does JD actually stand out? You know, because, uh, I guess transport can be a crowded market, right? So, so how do you differentiate 100%?

Speaker B: I mean, it, you've got to add value. When we started out, my first, um, contract, I remember it, uh, was a produce contract in the markets. And I, uh, remember calling one of the agents in the markets and saying, what time would you like me to deliver? And he laughed and he said, the, the current, you know, the prior truck company just dropped it on my doorstep three hours before I got there. And it sat outside and, and uh, and I bought it, uh, and I bought it in. I go, well, that's so good. That's the cold chain. We gotta, we gotta keep the cold chain. So you tell me when you want me to arrive. So, uh, he ended up going out and telling everyone else in the markets about, you know, this new business that was, you know, time slotting their deliveries into the, into the agents. And I ended up picking up three or four customers off the back of that. So I guess the, the, the thing there was something which didn't, you know, which didn't feel right, um, was something that we jumped on, we changed, we added value. And um, and, and that's sort of been the way we've, we've gone ever since. So I sit in a meeting, I ask people, you know, what their pain points are and uh, and we try and find solutions to those, uh, to those pain points. Yeah, um, yeah, we had back in the early days, it was, you know, the, the rejections out of the major retailers for, you know, temperature or, or, uh, or temperature boosts or things like that were, you know, I couldn't believe it. The dollars they were talking. Um, so we put a lot of effort into not just the technology, but the systems and the process, the people in the process, the training piece that sort of went alongside it. So by controlling, you know, systems, people, process, we were able to, um, to deliver a better outcome. Um, we even got to a point where, you know, for some of our produce clients, we were calling them if they wanted us to do it. We would call if there was a, an issue on the dock in, in one of the major, in one of the delivery points, we'd call them from the dock and they might be able to then reach out to the buyers while we were still on dock and resolve the problem. So we were continually looking for ways to add value which would either save the client money or, uh, deliver them a better outcome.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And then Just going back. I mean, I love what you said about when you first started, you were driving a truck for, you know, eight months and then kind of doing the invoicing at night. It, uh, must give you a bit of an advantage, right, when it comes to hiring, especially if you're looking for drivers or people at all levels. Because if you've kind of done that role yourself, you know, as the CEO and owner of the business, I would think it would help you, I don't know, kind of relate to, you know, people across the business, regardless of what role they're they're playing in the business. Does that, has that helped you, like getting, getting on the front lines?

Speaker B: Oh, I mean, most of all. I mean, I, uh, don't recruit the drivers personally anymore. It certainly helped me from a recruitment point of view in those, in those early days. It helps me from a relatability point of view, 100%. But probably most of all, it's just an appreciation that you have for what they do day in, day out. And I've always said it, you know, our business, if you've got a good, good driver, uh, uh, you know, behind the wheel, um, it can save a lot of head headaches downstream or upstream, depending on how you, how you look at it. So that appreciation, um, it, it sort of, how do I say it, it sort of permeates throughout the business where, where the culture is that we support. We're here so the, the head office. We don't call it head office, we call a support office where we're here to support that driver network or out there doing that, doing the job for us day in, day out. So that's the way I look at it. It's just a greater appreciation which, which delivers a massive, a massive benefit, I think, for sure.

Speaker A: Now you, uh, mentioned headaches. Talk us through some of the potential headaches, specifically with cold chain. Right. Because I would imagine that a lot can potentially go wrong from the time a product is leaving the supplier and actually arriving at the store. Or would you maybe be able to walk us through what that, you know, kind of looks like and, and what are some of the, um, mitigations, I guess, that you guys need to, to look at?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, when you think about it, um, there's all different types of product that we, we transport and they're all at different product ranges and, um, sorry, temperature ranges and, and those temperature ranges can be as y. As, uh, as narrow as 2 degrees, you know, where you've got to maintain that product within two to four or four to six, uh, degrees. Um, but I've always said that you know, you can have the greatest equipment in the world, but if you, if your people don't care enough to, to get it right, um, that's a massive part of what we do. So people, um, and process is such a big part of what we do. Um, the training piece, but also the cultural piece. Um, that care factor. I can't put a, I can't put a uh, um, you know, a value on, on, on that because what I've learned is that um, you know, you rely on, on people to perform the process that goes along side of this uh, temperature. Um, so it's not just setting the right temperature range, but it's monitoring that piece of equipment because over, over the journey, you know, lots of things can happen to the equipment and it relies on them being on, you know, monitoring and on board with it. Um, yeah, opening doors, closing doors when you get to docks, um, turning fridge units off while, you know, while doors are open to stop the, you know, making sure that you know, the docks and, and the docking and unloading process. We maintain the, the cold chain from, from uh, from end to end. The process piece is massive. So we invest a hell of a lot in, in training drivers. And that's, that's not just you know, one of the things we changed in the very early piece was, you know, we found that, that there were some drivers being sent out by different businesses with less than a day of induction training. Um, our induction training program is a minimum three days and then after that it's a, it's you know, the driver doesn't go out on their own until they, they pass muster, uh so to speak on the process that we need them to uh, to be adopting. So some people might, you know, might only spend three days if they're, they might be an experienced operator, come from doing a very similar type of role. But then you know, some of them we might spend a week and a half with getting, uh, getting them up to speed and then from there it's a constant refresher. Uh you know, some things will refresh on a quarterly basis, some things on an annual basis. We've also put a lot of investment around um, digitally being able to um, we have a, um, an online platform called Tribal Habits which allows us to put, push, um, you know, toolboxes, training programs, uh, out to all of our drivers, survey monkey type things as well if we want uh, to get feedback, test them on certain things. And that's proved really really, um, really good too. Especially now with a team of, you know, 120 odd drivers. That's uh, that's pretty critical.

Speaker A: Yeah. Wow. And as you have scaled over the years, you know, how do you maintain that close knit kind of, you know, family orientated feel with the culture but at the same time you've obviously scaled to a point where you're a pretty large, pretty large business now. Um, a lot of, a lot of staff, a lot of drivers. How do you maintain that balance, you know, of, of keeping that culture in check without losing the little personal touches?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's um, I mean it's not easy, right? You get bigger. I mean I know I, I walk, I'd know sort of 80% of the names of drivers now and within a month or two, you know, we're based here at Archerfield. But not every driver comes through this site. Some drivers run out of, you know, satellite sites and uh, you might be recruiting a driver and I might not, I might not see that driver for, you know, for a couple of months. So I pride myself on, on, on, on knowing I hate walking around seeing someone I don't know in a JD uh vest. But invariably as you get bigger that it becomes more difficult to do things like that. But um, so you know, I think first and foremost um, we really, at this site here at uh, Archerfield we make a real effort to get out and talk to all of the drivers. That's just not myself but the entire support office. So we don't expect people to sit and stay behind their desk here in the office, get out, talk to the drivers and it's um, Driving's a tough, tough gig. Right? You're um, you know, you're out there doing 8 to 10 hour shift and uh, and you've uh, got probably less than you know, 20 minutes of touch point with you know, with the office a day. And it depends on what time you start and what time you finish as to who you see and who you don't see. And uh, so we've got to make a real effort to, to, to interact um, with them. Um, we also try and pick up the phone where we can as well. Um, we run monthly um, barbecues here on site. But uh, even that like you know, we stagger that over. We do um, four, four times in, throughout the, the day when we do a monthly barbecue and you still probably only hit 50% of uh, of the, of the driver team just by, you know, just by, by, by, by definition we run quarterly um, off site uh, events. We Might we. We've got one coming up in two weeks at the Plow Inn, which is pretty good. So we bought all the team to that. And then we do our annual uh, you know, Christmas um, party as well. So we try and do a bit of social activity as well as the work stuff. So the barbecues on site and we try and promote the interaction. That's the key thing. Most people just want an opportunity to, you know, to be heard, not feel like a, a number or a bum on a seat and that's all. And ah, and for me too, you know, I, I've always said, you know, the door's always open. I'll never forget in the very early days I had my, my first office manager and uh, she came in after a driver was sort of in talking to me for about 20 minutes and she said oh yeah, I should have come in 10 minutes ago and cut that off for you. And I go no, no, don't ever do that. I said that that's the most valuable part of my day. That that 20 minutes means that driver, you know, for the next couple of months goes out there, he feels like I've listened to what he had to say. There's a couple of things we can, you know, change or improve, you know, for them. And um, and they go out happy and uh, and doing their best job day in, day out, you know, which for us solves a lot of uh, a lot of other potential mean for sure.

Speaker A: And do you think that that also then helps when you guys are hiring, say whether it's drivers or warehouse staff, different roles across the business? You know, it can be tough at the moment in this industry and this, you know, various factors. It's pretty tough to recruit good people. But do you find that having that really good culture gets uh, you referrals or you know, people worked with a mate who they try and bring over or do you find that helps you guys when you are looking to hire?

Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. Most of, most of our driver recruitment um, would come from existing drivers, uh, referring, um, other drivers. You'd be surprised. I mean like, like all industries people talk, they're out there on dock meeting other drivers and uh, if your drivers are uh, you know, are speaking positively, then um, you know, that's going to bode well. Um, I love it when I hear from clients and that they say, you know, all the time we see your drivers, most other drivers are coming in, they're kicking the cat and they're complaining about their, their employer and all this sort of Stu, your drivers generally are happy and I think that is what other drivers notice and that's what attracts them to uh, the JD Business.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, definitely.

Speaker B: And

Speaker A: switching gears a little bit in terms of technology. How important is tech in your business? Um, especially at the moment right where things are evolving quicker than it ever has. Um, a lot of different platforms, a lot of AI tools out there but how crucial does tech play a role in your business?

Speaker B: Yeah it's absolutely integral. Um, and particularly now that we're you know we're becoming a lot, a lot larger. Um, I remember a couple of years ago the point where you know having started on the truck with, with truck number one and uh, yeah my touch and feel of the business was very good and I remember a couple of years thinking ago thinking you know what? You're not going to be able to have this touch and feel for uh, forever. And I guess it was just one of those light bulb moments where you know that the scale and the level of complexity gets to a point where you need the systems that can support you in um, giving you the information that you need to run the business. So um, we spent a lot of ah, uh, caveat that with the fact that one of the things that I was really proud of early in the days was I implemented a transport management system in I think year one or 12 months after I'd started the business. And I'm glad I did that at that stage because I invested time from beginning to end in implementing that system which was Freight 2020 at the time. We're about to move away from that because we've got now a uh, software stack that we've been researching that we want to implement which uh, is going to give us better track and trace capability, um, end to end visibility, transparency, being able to incorporate AI um across our data, to interrogate the data and give us sort of actionable you know, insights um, as well. Um, but you know that early piece, me investing the time from you know end to end it meant m. It's actually put me in good stead to assess this new software stack that we're going to now. So sort of you know each step along the, along the journey has um, has prepared us for where we are. Yeah um today and here we are about to implement a um, a software stack that um, that I think you know there's no one software package in my opinion out there that will do everything you want to do. The main thing is you, you've got to have software that can talk to each other so it can seamlessly integrate. And you've got to be able to get data out of each of those and have them sit centrally where you can when, where you can then interrogate that data. Um, and preferably in a real time, you know, in a real time fashion. Yeah, um, it's been exciting to see how, how things have evolved in this whole system. Software, data, um, space, um, but the one other thing I guess I add to that is that that's only one dimension. Um, because once again it's the people in the process that uh, they go alongside of it. So one of the things I've learned going through this, this, you know, I guess call it a second phase process is that it's no good implementing these new whiz bang systems if you don't evolve your process and your training of your people, um, at the same, at the same time.

Speaker A: Yeah. 100. And I think that what goes with the tech side of things as well is all the marketing and the branding and, and you know, social I see is playing a bigger role, um, in the industry probably than it used to a few years ago. How much emphasis or how much weight do you personally put on, say, personal branding? Like, I can see you're pretty active on LinkedIn and um, you know, getting good engagement out there. Like how do you see that in this industry at the moment?

Speaker B: I'm glad you said that because my marketing team will appreciate that. They, they've been convinced, they were trying to convince me for years that my personal presence wasn't, uh, you know, people wanted to connect with, you know, the owner of the business. The, you know, the. What do I stand for? Where does it come from? And I was always like, you know, my old man used to say the breachy whale gets the harpoon. So, you know, you lay low and don't do it. It's. The feedback's been phenomenal. I started doing it probably, I don't know, three or four months ago with uh, with help and um, and uh, and that's been, and that's been phenomenal. It's been really good for the business. I think in, in our game. And like a lot of games, people research you online, they research the business, they research the, the people that run the business. So um, you know, I've always said our trucks out there on the road are a fantastic form of marketing for us. People notice our trucks. Um, but what they do then is they then hop online and they, and they do their research and, and I think social media is um, is pretty important for that, particularly you know, things like LinkedIn.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, you know, podcasts, um, like this. You know, people want to, want to, want to know more about uh, the, the business they deal with. They might research you for 12, 12 to 18 months before they decide to engage uh, with something. So yes, we have, we put a lot of effort into, into simply that um, we don't do a lot of other forms of marketing. Um, that word of mouth is probably the other, the other big one for us. Existing clients talking to other people or uh, people, uh, from existing clients moving to other businesses and bringing us in off the back of that.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, absolutely. And you know, looking back on, since you've started J.D. and you know, obviously done a phenomenal job to get it to where it is now, but if you could kind of go back from day one, what would you do anything differently? Would there be anything that you would change?

Speaker B: Oh yeah, it's a good question. And um, I guess I'm reluctant to say no, but uh, but I, I feel like the journey is as you know, has been the journey I've loved every, every second of it. I mean, not to say there hasn't been painful, painful parts of it. I guess I'm really proud of the journey this business has taken. I mean I, in, in a prior life, not just on the other side of the fence, I did a big, you know, uh, stint in the private equity space, probably five or six years. And um, and what I learned is that you know, as an executive, even not just private equity, but as an executive, you, you tend to be very short term focused, whether it be based on your, your incentives or uh, you know, the current mandate of the, of the business. Um, one thing I'm very, very proud of with this business is that the right decision, I feel like we've made the right decision for the long term in every situation. Um, and that's been the lens that I've always put on it. Um, don't, don't cut any corners. Do what's right. If you can't, if you can't be proud of something, change it. Um, you know, make a decision that you're going to be, that you're going to be proud of. And, and uh, that's what I love most about the, the journeys. Not to say that we've done everything right per se, but, but we've had the, the right intention. And uh, and you know, we're, I think that's put us in good stead. I think that's got us to where we are today. And uh, And a lot of other businesses, I think, yeah, you can have four or five values on a wall. The one value we always talk about is to be proud of what, what we do. Proud of every decision you make. If you see something, a piece of equipment, you know, an asset that you're not proud of, change it. Do.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And that's been the guide, guiding light for, for our business. So, no, I don't think about changing anything on the, on the journey. The, the mistakes have, you know, our mistakes have made us where we are today too. We front into our, our mistakes, we fix them and we, and we, we keep moving forward.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's great. I love that. And, and on this show, like, we've got listeners of all different ages. Right. So I, I get approached from school leavers or people at uni, um, who are considering a career in transport or they're unsure or, you know, they've heard about, um, you know, logistics and all the different roles. But if you were talking to say, the next generation coming through, because as we know, you know, it's a challenge. Right. Trying to, trying to attract younger people into the industry.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: What are some key selling points that you would tell them, you know, as to why they should consider transport or logistics broadly as an industry to, to get into?

Speaker B: I mean, it's, it's such a, a diverse, um, game. But I, I, I'll tell you this. When I, when I started in logistics, I mean, people that I knew, they looked at me like I had two heads. Like, why would you want to, you know, why, why would you want to do that? You know, low margins, massive competitors. Um, to be honest, I think that's nonsense in any industry. You know, if you're focused on delivering value to the client, um, you can find a niche where you can make money, you can be successful and you can be sustainably. So, um, this industry, um, simplicity is not the right word, but just the rubber hitting the road, you know, um, being there, seeing the trucks, you know, out there on the road, um, being a part of something that, you know, we're, we're an essential service, uh, in that we own Australia's food. You know, supply is dependent upon, you know, uh, road transport. Um, there's a lot to be proud of and, and uh, it's tangible.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So no fugazi in it. You know, you got a lot of industries where, you know, you're looking for the least path of resistance to profitability. This is very real, very tangible, delivers a phenomenal service, a necessary service. There's a Lot to be, there's a lot to be proud of. Um, lots of moving parts too. Right? You've got um, you've got um, being based here, you know, where we oversee, you know, the trucks coming and going. It's the maintenance of the vehicles, it's the procurement of all the parts that go, that go into it. It's the selling on the other side of it. And we're dealing with, you know, blue chips, multinationals all the way down to, you know, corner stores. And it's, it's, it's such a diverse, exciting and no day is, is no day is the same as the day before it. Um, in fact, if I look back I'd like, like my most enjoyable part of my career has been in this, in this business and, and what I'd say to, to young people coming through, um, where I think the other temptation is to think that everything exists online these days. And it's not to say that, you know, online is not an important part of what we do. Even um, this can be an exciting, diverse and, and very interesting um, career option that is in, in the supply chain, in, in road transport for sure.

Speaker A: And I think it's one of the few industries that I don't, you know, I can't see AI, uh taking over anytime soon. Delivering, delivering goods from A to B, which is, which is important, isn't it?

Speaker B: Yeah, everyone's, everyone's afraid. I, you know, I, I, I, um, I just think it's going to make for those adoption is just going to make us more efficient. Um, like any other form of technology, you know, you got to embrace it and uh, and, and use it for, for however it can make you make you more efficient. Where, where um, it's interesting you say that too because we're at the stage where what we're doing internally, we've got big uh, future um, aspirations with regards AI and technology. But stage one is actually overcoming the fear of adoption, um, in each of the individuals in the team. So we're running sort of monthly um, uh, breakfasts internally where we encourage and share um, how individual members in the team have adopted AI and what's working for them and what hasn't worked and, and uh, we're what we, we're in that how do we encourage people to, to, to adopt, you know, adopt, change, adopt, uh, new technology. Because then when we start to go and roll out, you know, because that's, that's what, that's what I think a lot of businesses have struggled with is the adoption. Yeah, that's Everyone sort of has these ideas that they can put in play. But um, it's a brave new world.

Speaker A: And I think that that's probably m. I think the reality is the, the people most affected will be the ones that don't embrace that change, um, as opposed to just AI completely taking over everything. I think that the ones that do embrace it, especially early on, will have such a huge advantage in the marketplace.

Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. And it can mate. It can save you a phenomenal amount of time. Like um, just little things that uh, that you uh, know. I had a, I was doing a spreadsheet the other day and then there was a rather complicated spreadsheet with a. And uh, the formula which might have otherwise taken me probably 20 minutes to work out how to do that formula right through trial and error. It's like, I know 30 second prompt into copilot. That's done. It's like. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty, pretty, pretty wild. Yeah.

Speaker A: And what's, what's, you know, what's the outlook for, for your business? If you could, you know, have a crystal ball over the next few years? Where are you guys sort of expanding and heading to?

Speaker B: I mean we've had, for years we've had clients say to us, when you're ready to clone yourself in another state, let us know. Uh, we'll help underpin it. And uh, I've been reluctant to do that mainly because what you said before around how we drive our culture, it's very hands on and I'm really proud of that. And I guess there's some degree of nervousness, um, and I won't take that step in a state until I'm confident that we can replicate the same level of service that we, we do here. But the reality is, um, I think the next couple of years I think we can double our size just doing exactly what we currently do in the geography. We already, we already do it. And that's our focus. Right, that's our focus is to, is to nail the blueprint here in uh, in Southeast Queensland. And uh, and then uh, and then expand, you know, interstate from there.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's, it's, you know, it's refreshing to hear um, a good success story because as you, you probably know as well right there, there can be a bit of doom and gloom um, in the industry and, and in the market in general, but it seems like, you know, you've kind of bucked the trend and, and you've had really good growth and, and you know, a lot more to come by. The sounds of it, which is you know, testament to, to you and, and obviously your leadership but also having the right people around you. Right. Because I think it's ultimately a people business and, and without the right people, um, it's going to be tough.

Speaker B: 100 Sam, you know what? In this game, more, more so than most, um, gravity takes you in the wrong direction. You uh, you've got to constantly be, be fighting against it. And uh, and I've always, I've always known that. And it's one thing to know it, it's another thing to. You can speak it and say it till the cows come home, but to walk it is bloody difficult. And uh, surrounding myself with good, good people helps, helps keep you, keep you on that, on that focus. And I think there's been lots of tough conversations and tough times to you know, you uh, if you sort of just roll with the flow of this industry they will take you into non profitability really quickly. Um, it's being able to say no and uh, knowing what to say no to.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And when to draw a line in the sand and um, when to, when to take a step back, you know, potentially lose a piece of business to go forward. These are all, these are all hard things. It's easy to say, they're hard things to do but um, that's been the secret to success. Um, and no one's immune. You know, we got you. You can have a blue chip client that if they you know, if um, costs are going up and they're not willing to move on price, you've got to be strong enough to uh, and you've got to be established, your business has got to be established enough to be able to take that uh, hit as well. Um, you've also got to then manage it really, really well on the other side too. And how you procure and how you manage your supply, your supplier base, there's a lot of a uh, lot of moving past to it and you can't do that on your own.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, absolutely. And it's such a dynamic and evolving industry and you know there's so many external factors um, which I think can impact the industry, you know, downstream as well. Right. If there's wars in the Middle east and the price of oil goes up and the price of diesel goes up and, and interest rates and a whole bunch of other stuff. But I think that there's always going to be those factors out there and it's just how you react to them and, and um, rather than using them, you know, just purely as, as a, as an excuse. Um, but you know, it can be tough as well. So I think you've got to be agile.

Speaker B: I think just the communication. You've got to be agile. Without a doubt. Um, that's. That. That is 100% the truth. I remember coming out, coming through as a young fellow, and if you were, you know, you always looked at the big companies as the safe haven and uh, and size almost predicated success, and it's not the case these days with the rate of disruption and change. You know, um, agility is more important. Yeah, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. Um, but also, I mean, I think the other thing is, with disruption being rife, I guess what I've learned is, is, is not to sit on your hands. Yeah. Front into it. Communicate with transparency and um, and deal with whatever problem together with your clients, with your suppliers.

Speaker A: Yeah. Collaboratively.

Speaker B: Um, and as quicker you do that and the more transparent you are, the better the outcome, I think is, Is, uh, you know, is probably what I've learned.

Speaker A: Yep. For sure. No, that's good. We, we managed to cover quite a lot. Was there anything else that you were thinking of or you wanted to, to cover off?

Speaker B: No, no, I, I, um. You know, I don't do too many of these. M. Sam, but, um, I, you know, it's been an enjoyable chat, mate. And um, I think, you know, I did over before I hopped on. I had a quick of other ones you'd, uh, you'd done and uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's really great. These, I think. I think for me, I want to start listening to more podcasts like this because, um, you know, one thing I learned throughout my career and what I never think I did enough of is, um, is, is really take the learnings from, you know, from, from other people and the journey of, of other people in, in business. It doesn't even have to be the same industry as you. You know, you. There's a lot to, there's a lot to be learned.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, no, I appreciate, Appreciate the kind words. Yeah. Thanks again, Joe, for jumping on. It was really good to meet and to have this chat and um, congrats on, on all the success so far.

Speaker B: Thank you, Sam. Appreciate it, mate.

Speaker A: Thank you. Cheers.