#11 - Nick Gavos: Breaking the Stigma That Age Equals Knowledge

Speaker A: I think that uh, I've ah, broken the stigma of, you know, age and experience equals knowledge. It's not always the case. It's about putting in the work, putting in the effort, being the best person you can, and most importantly, being the best professional that you can be to putting in the work. So definitely do the best that you can possibly do, aim high, achieve what you can, and don't let anyone hold you back.

Speaker B: Nick, thanks for joining the show. Really appreciate your time and uh, I know it's a little bit of an early one before work, but thanks for coming on.

Speaker A: No worries. Thank you so much, Sam, for having me.

Speaker B: Now I actually, I came across you, um, I think I saw on LinkedIn that you were at the IF Kabar conference recently, uh, down in Hobart and saw you up on stage and receiving an award, if I'm not wrong. So would you mind maybe giving a bit of an overview, I guess on. Yeah. Who you are and what you do? Sure.

Speaker A: First things first, um, my name's Nick. A lot of people probably know me in the industry, probably see me around. As you mentioned, this year I was very, uh, honored to be selected to represent the IFKBAR Young Professionals RSC on the panel alongside Adam Kowalski, Ozlan Bassa and our facilitator Nicole Cooper. As for the, the awards, I was last year's winner of the Young professional award. In 2025, uh, this year Adam Kowalski took the honor. So it's very much a great representation for the RAC to have two Young professional winners on our panel.

Speaker B: And in terms of you and your background, would you mind maybe giving an overview on, uh, your journey, I guess, within freight forwarding and sort of how you came to be where you are at the moment?

Speaker A: Sure. Uh, look, we've my journey in terms of where I started. I grew up in our family business, Gavos Freight Solutions, where licensed customs brokers and freight forwarders. So I've been involved in our business, uh, from very young, starting very small and just again essentially given tasks and sort of sponging as much as I could from the like harbor, his protege and general manager as well. So again on the side, I was also a national and state athlete in karate as well and as well as being student at the time in high school, so balancing pretty much everything. And then once I finished all my commitments, I, uh, pretty much came into the industry full time and started from any port operations point of view and then slowly progressed.

Speaker B: Nice. Lots going on then.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, and now coming up through the family business, like was that always the plan for you, were you always going to get into the, the freight forwarding and logistics side, or was there like a moment where you were like, okay, this is the career path I'm going

Speaker A: to go down, actually? Yeah. So yes and no with that one. Believe it or not that that one was, it was on the cards, but it wasn't 100%, if that sort of makes sense. Where, in terms of where I wanted to be as a Postgraduate from Year 12 at Killer Leon's College, I was sort of hoping to start my studies to become a osteopath, because at the time, being a national athlete, it was always my goal to open up my clinic and potentially a dojo one day under the, the Kim K Martial arts banner and essentially run both hand in hand. And I, uh, think as you get older, you sort of realize that at the time my studies weren't so great because I was traveling a lot and my ATAR suffered very, very drastically. So I didn't have VCar, uh, come to the, to the rescue to sort of assist me with again, my commitments with the Australian national team. But in saying that dad was luckily enough to be there to sort of say, you can stay here, if you want something to support you, like, because this is what you've always been a part of, then, you know, it's up to you if you really want to join this industry and be part of it. I'm not going to put pressure on you being my son, but you have to want it. So eventually, as I started going along the yellow brick road, I saw something that was quite niche and something that I could take advantage of and again, something that I genuinely had a passion for as well. So it'd be great to carry on the family legacy and as well try and make my own career and sort of my own, um, how do we say? Reputation.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You want to carve out your own, your own identity as well. Right. And working in the family business, like, there's definitely a lot of pros to that. Obviously it's a familiar environment, but there's probably some challenges, I guess as well. Um, in your view, like, what are some of the main challenges at working in a family business?

Speaker A: Working with family, literally family, I think, yeah. With family businesses, uh, especially like us SMEs, when we, when we all gel together, we can all get on like a house on fire. But you know, as well, being relatives, when you have similar ideals and mindsets, you do clash at times and you probably don't realize it, but it's Only to the benefit of the environment. It's not malicious or, or anything of the sort. So we're, we're quite grateful to, to have those little sparks here and there because you know that there's a genuine uh, care factor in the environment, in the, in the place. So you know that you're only going to push yourself and everyone else around you to, to be better. So I think that's the advantage of being uh, in a family business versus uh, a multinational where I think everyone's just doing it their own little part.

Speaker B: Yeah. And talk me through like what's the journey since day one when you actually officially joined the business, you know, full time capacity to now, what's that journey been like in terms of the actual role or the responsibilities that you're doing?

Speaker A: It's been a very long journey so far and it, and it's only just beginning. That's um, the most optimistic view I can give in terms of where I started again. I sort of came in with some knowledge but all I said to the guys was is just treat me as if I didn't know anything, start again and let's work through the basics and build a strong foundation to work off that. So luckily enough the foundation was sort of there, just needed a little bit of tweaking. Um, again it started from an imports point of view, then eventually to exports, organizing local cartage, getting involved in freight forwarding and then once I finished my diploma in Customs broking last year as well, even throughout my studies I, I was a uh, Customs compiler and then eventually I became a classifier as well. So that sort of went hand in hand with what I was trying to achieve in my studies and getting my acquired years of experience as a Customs compiler to eventually go for more licensed Customs breaking license and so going for

Speaker B: the license that's on the roadmap at the moment.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's definitely on the roadmap. M. I have to sort of look at where I'm at in terms of myself and my knowledge because I'm definitely not where I want to be. Uh, I know I can keep improving and keep getting better at what I do, but as well it's also getting the years of experience behind me. So far I think I'm only at three years so probably uh, might need another year or two before I even start looking at it. But still building my base and they

Speaker B: don't make it easy. Right. I think that's like one of the, one of the challenges and what I hear constantly is just the actual ability to Go down that pathway and become a licensed customs broker is really difficult, especially at the moment where there is a massive shortage of brokers. Um, and we obviously need more. So what do you know, like, specifically what you actually need to do in order to become a licensed customs broker? I think, like, people listening would find that, that interesting in terms of what you actually have to do.

Speaker A: Yeah, sure. Uh, I've mentioned this on the panel as well, and I think a lot of people were sort of shocked how I threw it out. But in terms of wanting to be a licensed customs broker, someone that doesn't have the license yet as well is going for it at the moment. All I can say is it starts with you as a person. You need to know where you are, where your two feet are, and you need to trust yourself in your abilities. You need to have confidence, you need to have character, and you also need to have conviction. That's one, two, again, you need to complete the diploma, you need to have the, the knowledge and the expertise behind you before you can even go to the board. That's definitely one of the requirements. And third of all, it's also having a couple years of experience, acquired experience under a licensed customs broker or senior licensed broker. So once you, you start putting everything together, perhaps you can, you can look at it. But again, someone, and as you touched earlier, someone like licensing, NACA Black, they, they are quite tough and I do admire them because they're only doing their job. They're only protecting the integrity of the license, which I think a lot of people and a lot of juniors sort of forget that. It's great to get it in the end, but you got to work hard to get there. And once you earn, um, to get that license like I want, I do one day, then you can say you've got it and you've passed all the hurdles, uh, the correct way to, to be a licensed customs broker.

Speaker B: Yeah, that makes sense. And for people coming through, you know, like, we're always talking about that next generation of, of talent coming through. And I'm constantly having conversations with my clients about what do we do to get younger people interested, um, in freight forwarding or logistics more broadly. What do you say to some of those younger people that are, uh, maybe just leaving school or in uni and thinking about a career path, like, why should they consider freight or logistics as a viable career path?

Speaker A: The thing is, with freight and logistics, it's like I mentioned before, it's very niche. There's so many different pathways. You can sort of travel along. You can start from any what's point of view to become a freight forwarder, uh, or specialize in a specified section of forwarding or logistics, or you can possibly even get into the customs broking side. So there's so many pathways that you can go. But all I can say to the young people where I was myself 18, uh, years old as a postgraduate, this industry, what I love about it is it offers so many challenges. And if you're prepared to be trolled by fire, then definitely come along because this is the place where you're going to see what you're really made out of. This is a good opportunity to test what you know and what you don't know. And most importantly, not being afraid of making mistakes and being something it's not going to be pretty and definitely never will be. But you've got to be prepared to trust the process, putting the grind and see the result come in the end as well.

Speaker B: Yeah. And what do you reckon? Like, I feel like there's a little bit of a misconception sometimes when people think about logistics and think about freight and they might only think, okay, it's just a warehouse or it's just, you know, there, uh, stacking shelves and that and that, or driving a truck. But what different career paths and opportunities actually exist for, again, for those people that, that might not be fully across it. Like which, which direction can you go in in freight forwarding?

Speaker A: So many, literally so many. You can start as, uh, you just mentioned warehousing. If you're going to look at it from a warehouse point of view. There's pick and packing, there's forklift drivers, there's people working in the warehouses doing manifests and as you said, loading cargo, accepting cargo. There are warehouse managers overseeing that as well. There's administration roles as well. There's all these different environments that logistics can lead you to. That's why it's very hard to market logistics, because there's so much ground to cover. Unless you're in it to sort of see it and sort of gauge it. It's a, it's a bit hard. But what I've been saying to people is you've got to market logistics in general as a place that's fun, it's dynamic and most importantly, somewhere that will give you so many opportunities but not being afraid of trying something new. So yeah, you can't really cover, uh, one or the other. You've got to cover everything. So that's the best way I can put it.

Speaker B: And have you got any ideas or thoughts on, you know, whether it's like an education piece or how do we get more people? I think just actually explaining logistics and explaining the different pathways to people is half the battle. But have you got any ideas or any thoughts like you as a young person yourself, that we can kind of implement? Whether it's more internship opportunities or more courses through universities or like people going into high schools and talking about career paths, like do you have any ideas or thoughts yourself?

Speaker A: Well, I can say comfortably as part of the ifca, BAH professionals are actually one of its representatives. We're definitely looking at things like uh, as you mentioned, they're going into schools, sort of getting in the faces of the students, showing them what the industry is talking to them, sending out licensed customs brokers to pass on their firsthand experience and knowledge as well to answer any questions that they may ask. So definitely that's something on the cards. I would love to see the diploma revamped. I think it's a very long overdue. Especially someone like myself who was probably expecting to come out ready made. There's a lot of loopholes across all the diplomas that I've seen that I think need to be covered. Because at the moment the NACA Black standards here, and then you look at the education side where it's probably a little bit here and you look at the input versus the output and it's not really matching where it should be. So we've got to look at ways for uh, even where NACA Black is at the moment to bring the standard up. So we're getting more better people coming through to ensure that we're getting more licensed customs brokers because the skill shortage is there in terms of I think lack of education support systems. That's definitely one lack of opportunities in internships. There was something that DCN recently covered that we um, should almost throw back to the old master and apprentice, uh, relationship and teaching uh, method which it's proven it worked for all our mentors. And last but not least, looking at ah, like I said, the Plymouth, I think it's, it's definitely long overdue.

Speaker B: And Customs, I think it's one of those parts of freight where it's like the regulations are constantly changing and you have to always stay across it and stay updated. From your point of view, how do you actually stay across everything? It's such a dynamic part of freight forwarding.

Speaker A: How do we stay across it? Well it uh, comes back down to again having the opportunity to go out with licensed customs brokers to the CPD events I've been grateful to start as young as 18 so I've been going to all the IFCA bus, CPD in Melbourne as well as all the, the Freight and Trade alliance ones as well. We actually couldn't go to this one because we're at the, the Grand Chancellor or if you bubble National Conference. But without fail every year uh, myself and Peter and our general manager will go to, to all of them and keep up to date. Listen to all the, the speakers from the departments, uh peers, industry experts to all the topics you know, surrounding uh legislation dumping again all the hairy topics that people are probably concerned about getting their take and walking away from it. Filtering what works, what doesn't work and then applying it into the workplace as well. Plus external research.

Speaker B: Yeah. And shifting now onto technology and AI and the role that that's playing not only across customs but I guess more broadly across logistics and freight forwarding. What are you seeing in that space and are you guys sort of playing around implementing any, anything new or do you think it's going to be a bit of a slow burner? Uh, uh, as opposed to, you know, I think some people think it's just going to come in and change everything straight away.

Speaker A: Look, we fail and technology innovation is always great because it sort of makes everything easier. Look, with technology itself it's, it's amazing for freight forwarding especially for the bigger companies because it allows their process to, to move faster which might m. May suit them for, for someone like us as an SME that where we pride ourselves on our craft and on our knowledge the, the technology is great unless you use it as a tool. What I'm seeing at the moment, especially with along of the young people and the students, they, they're using it as a, as a support system because they, they lack the conviction to, to problem solve a task and they'll use that AI to, to complete it for them. Where I think the answer should come from you and then use that as your, as your second basis because uh again as trade experts and one thing Colin Bram actually mentioned is a good friend, a mentor of mine through the uh, italc, uh Diploma of Customs Broking. He mentioned especially at the conference that we're probably one of the only professions that's uh, licensed under a legislation or section of uh, any act in Australia. So for us as licensed customs brokers or aspiring brokers to, to use AI, uh especially the younger generation, before we even think about that, we're willing to master the craft as our mentors did and be the best Professionals that we can ourselves from a compliance point of view and meet the standards where the industry acceptant before we look at that it may work for businesses but if we're going to talk about students, definitely we need to look at us first and master every and cover every basis.

Speaker B: M and what do you reckon, like your role, say customs compiler, classifier broker, uh, that side, that custom side. How do you see that role shifting over the next few years, if at all? Like do you see, do you see much change in terms of that particular role or skill set?

Speaker A: Look, um, from that point of view I can probably see more technology coming along the way, especially in the multinational companies because again they work on speed and KPIs like a lot of them do for someone like us. And hopefully I can speak for Most of the SMEs out there that have kept their traditional ways. For a uh, customs compiler and classifier like myself, who's aspiring to be a licensed customs broker, the standard should be again from a classification point of view, if we're going to use that as an example is starting off with all your section, chapter and legal notes, mastering and navigating the tariff, um, understanding your notes using your interpretive rules, using your Schedule 3, which is uh, the actual working tariff, Schedule twos or interpretive rules, understanding and how to apply them and justify your answer with conviction. Why you believe that this item is to be classified here? That's something I think technology can't do at the moment. It can, but it's certainly fresh and it's probably making mistakes here and there. So that will probably get better as time goes on and gets more advanced. The main focus, uh, I believe for all young people coming through in the industry especially is customs compilers and classifiers get dirty in the books, stop somewhere, start reading, start learning, start memorizing. Because whether it's having a conversation like us at the moment or gone before NACA Black and they're absolutely grilling you over a scenario or no different to meeting up with a client and they ask you a question you're expected to know on the spot. I can't just say, uh, one moment please, I'm going to punch it into Chat GPT and he's going to tell me the answer I need to know as an expert and that is my expectation as a lawyer equivalent in the logistics industry as well being top of the chain as a licensed customs broker.

Speaker B: I like that. Lawyer equivalent. Yeah, it's a good way to put it actually. Just going back a bit to again, school leavers People about to go to uni or people thinking about their first real corporate, corporate kind of full time job. What's your favorite part about the job?

Speaker A: My favorite part, talking to people and coming across very, uh, harsh scenarios. I love to come across all the nitty gritty stuff that people don't want to touch and I absolutely love to dissect it with the team and learn how to get it over the line. Uh, recently we just had, I believe it was in February or March because of the ongoing conflict in the Middle east. We had about 14 or 13 AK returned back from, from the Arab Emirates of meat. So that was a, a tricky process to get it back here and clear it because that requires an import permit once it leaves. So there was a special division that was formed with quarantine, uh, and uh, their export department there that sort of, how do you say, fast tracked the process and work with us to get it over the line. And that, that was probably one of the meaningful experiences that I've been part of. Obviously, you know, someone like my father has been around for, plus 30 years is probably more than me, but that was by far, uh, I think the most intriguing one in terms of real, uh, real life, uh, consequences of conflict, uh, in, in any, in any region of the world that, you know, when Judy calls you, you have to act and you have to act now, drop what you're doing and problem solve.

Speaker B: It's a lot of, it is a lot of problem solving. Right. Like you got to think outside the box a lot.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Yeah. And when it comes to work, like we hear about flexibility, you know, hybrid, remote, whatever it looks like, like, for people like you, maybe, maybe less so yourself specifically, it's a family business, but like people your age and your mates and stuff like that. How important is flexibility or remote and things like that for people looking for a job?

Speaker A: Uh, I think again because uh, I'm sort of a time capsule myself. I know, um, I might be. I uh, just turned 21 today. So again, happy birthday. Oh, thank you. Someone like myself who's been brought up in an environment that's embraced the old school values, someone like myself, uh, what I say to young people is don't worry about working from home, get together with the team. You need to be in the office, especially as someone coming from an SME and see and sees how that creates disconnect. You need to be part of the team, you need to be able to talk to your colleagues, you need to be able to problem solve. Because in an environment like ours, you definitely can't run. You certainly can't hide either. In a bigger company, you probably have flexibility. Uh, in an environment like ours, you definitely need to be part of the cohesion of the environment because that allows us to all gel together. It creates a fun environment, a healthy environment, and most importantly, the productivity comes along with it as well. And, uh, I just feel when you're working from home, we sort of lose that person a little bit. Like, you may have circumstances, fair enough. But, uh, uh, like I always say to people, try and come to the office because there was no such thing as, you know, teams or anything of the sort. Thirty years ago my father started. It was either you rocked up the work or you didn't. So I think that's the same philosophy we should still have and not rely on it.

Speaker B: Yeah. Awesome. Any final thoughts or I guess any message to, you know, that next generation that are sort of coming through before we, uh, before we wrap up?

Speaker A: Sure. Just, um, as I was saying before, give it a go. If this is something new for you, if you're listening to this, then absolutely give it a crack. I didn't know where I was, you know, a couple years ago. I didn't foresee myself to be here at this point, uh, as a, you know, a national award winner and a panelist before all 21. So again, Sky's the limit. I think that I've, uh, broken the stigma of, you know, age and experience equals knowledge. It's not always the case. It's about putting in the work, putting in the effort, being the best person you can, and most importantly, being the best professional that you can be to putting in the work. So definitely do the best that you can possibly do. Aim high, achieve what you can, and, uh, don't let anyone hold you back.

Speaker B: And finally, actually, I know you mentioned that you're a big martial artist and kind of went down that pathway. How does that translate over into your work life, like having coming through such a disciplined sport?

Speaker A: Um, most certainly it's, it's always there every day, I think as a, as a martial artist where, when, when you start down the track. And I was very thankful to be taught by two, uh, coaches of mine who I hold to, uh, utmost respect as well, who are both my father figures and mentors. Uh, those lessons that you, you have with those people do not go again, like, they do not leave. It starts with a, uh, process and it finishes with, uh, a finish it starts at. And so that it starts with, you know, habits at home as well. Martial art, it's Clean gear, packing your gear, cleaning up around you, having a process, having a system that sort of definitely translates into your work because you have a start point and you have a finish point as well. So again, there's forms in martial arts a lot of people know. We have forms called kata, we have freestyle fighting called kumite. So these are things that, the lessons that they teach us as martial artists, that we know when to rely back on our form and our basics and our foundation. And then we also know how to think and act under pressure on the spot and compose ourselves with, uh, sunshine. To not show the person our true thoughts or our current emotions. To, to be able to have that poker face, as we call it. So that, that's what martial arts is. It's about creating better people and most importantly, being the best version of yourself.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'm like 18 months into my BJJ journey, so I think as well as, like, trying to get everyone into freight, I think everyone should do martial arts. Like, it's, it's unbelievable. Um, and it, it really does transfer across, I think, into work, life, life, like so many attributes you can take from that side and implement into your, into your daily work. So, no. Love it. Awesome. Well, I'll wrap up now. We'll keep you, keep you, uh, too long. I really appreciate you jumping on and taking the time and, um, yeah, we look forward to following you on LinkedIn and, uh, no doubt you'll go on to do really, really great things. So thank you very much.

Speaker A: No worries, Sam. Appreciate your time and thank you for having me. Really appreciate it again for the opportunity.

Speaker B: Thanks, Nick. Cheers, man.

Speaker A: Cheers.