#10 - Why "Good Enough" Is Costing Businesses Millions

Speaker A: You know, a larger organization, uh, you know, might have to rely on stock as a buffer, you know, because making changes to their supply chain or their logistics setup, uh, is difficult. M. There's a lot more to it than just moving that product from A to B. There's more moving parts either end. But you know, in that medium sized business, I think uh, volatility you can really take advantage of.

Speaker B: Let's jump into it. Chris Rowe, thanks for jumping on the podcast mate. Really appreciate your time. We, you and I have known each other for a little while, but for the listeners, would you mind giving us a bit of a high level on yourself and your background?

Speaker A: Yeah, thanks Sam. First of all, thanks for inviting me. Um, I've had a look at a number of the podcasts and you know, it's uh, it's a great job that you guys are doing here and something new and something we don't see a lot in the freight industry. So uh, well done on where it's taken you so far.

Speaker B: Thank you. Appreciate that.

Speaker A: Where did I start out in logistics? Well, I guess um, uh, I was kind of born into logistics on my grandparents side, on both sides of the family. One owned a trucking business and uh, one owned roadhouses. Right. So service stations. So you know, right from uh, my first days I was around transport in one form or another. And uh, you know, whilst I didn't imagine it'd take me where it is today, um, certainly been part of the grounding in that space. From an international freight perspective though, um, my first role in international freight was uh, in country New South Wales for a business called Sunrise. So you would see the rice products in the markets and so forth. So that was in a rice mill, um, in country New South Wales and my job there was packing containers for export. Right. So, um, the physical side of it, you know, manually handling goods into the containers.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Then that also gave me my first look at some key parts of the paperwork. Right. So you know, container numbers and you know, the recording of data and even down to uh, batch control for what was going into the containers and building out packing lists and so forth. You know, that was my first taste there. Um, then I moved to the city, moved down to Melbourne and found uh, myself a role, uh, directing the freight forwarding. Like most people my age, I started out as a document runner. Um, that was great fun. Gives uh, you a really good grounding. You meet a lot of people and learn a lot of things along the way. Work my way through import operations, customer service, um, key account management, sales um, from there I've ran branches, I've ran sales teams, uh, worked for privately owned businesses as well as uh, multinationals in that space. So I guess um, you know, there's probably not one thing that I haven't been in touch with at one stage or another. But what I really like about this grounding is you know, I can be on the floor with the guys in the warehouse, understand and communicate with them, um, but also take those learnings and uh, turn them into commercial conversations in a boardroom. So really lucky to have ah, had that sort of exposure and really lucky to have worked with some great people along the way that I've been able to lean into and uh, learn from.

Speaker B: Yeah, nice. You sounds like you've kind of done it all. How, how did you find that transition from operations through to key account management, then eventually into sales and then leadership. I would assume that that would have actually helped quite a lot, um, as opposed to just being a pure salesperson the whole way through. But what's your thoughts?

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. Look, the operations piece, I, I can't speak highly enough of and people getting a grounding in that space, you know, it's going to give you a better understanding of the challenges um, the customers face. Because you're on that front line, you're often taking that first call when a customer has a challenge or they've got an issue that they need to solve. Yeah, you know, you hear that and you know those challenges whilst keeping, can be similar, affect customers differently. So you know, being able to understand that each situation, um, whilst the outcomes might be the same, they affect people differently and how to work with people on uh, getting those outcomes.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And that's translated greatly into customer facing roles. Again, going in open minded, eyes open, asking questions and listening. Yeah, how it affects me could be different to how it affects you. And then how we approach that can uh, be two totally different cases.

Speaker B: Again, was there any kind of one thing that made you want to say, okay, uh, I want to go into sales and then I want to go into sales leadership? Or was it a case of just sort of trying out various jobs within a freight forwarder and you sort of found one that you really resonated with?

Speaker A: Uh, look, I've always been ambitious, right. So um, you know, one of the things I always did throughout my career was worked as hard as I could to finish um, my day as quick as I could and that allowed me to tap someone on the shoulder further up the chain, you know, ask them what they're doing. Is there Anything that I can help them with and even you know, having a coffee or you know, a chat around the water cooler, you learn things. Right. I wouldn't say that I set out to go uh, into sales and sales management and so forth. But one thing I do really enjoy is um, leading and helping and uh, you know, whether that's from an operational viewpoint. You know, I've run operations teams, I've run three PLs, you know, I've been a branch manager, um, and you know, delving into that sales management piece, you know, working with people, understanding where they're having challenges, you know, how we can help those. And I might not have the answers right, but I can reach out to other people that I know and explain the situation and get there views and their thoughts.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, we can apply uh, different methodologies into that and you know that to me is the most exciting bit. You know, is that real coaching, real mentorship and, and sharing what I know?

Speaker B: No, that's good. And then you've, you know, 25 odd years in the industry, various roles, senior leadership, and you've kind of come to a point now where I think last year you set up a consultancy business or an advisory business, um, freight advice. Can you tell me what's the story with that and why did you decide that now was the right time?

Speaker A: Now's the right time. That's probably uh, the million dollar question in that sense. Um, I'll go back to uh, an old boss of mine, I think. Um, I was looking at buying my first house. Right. And you know, you're juggling around, uh, timing, you know, when's the best time to hit the market and so forth. And he plainly said to me the best time to do something is, is when you do it. So uh, from a timing perspective, um, you know, I'm not sure it was the right time or the wrong time, but it was the time that uh, I wanted to do it and, and start a new challenge.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Look, the whole basis around it is that um, everyone over my career where I've been lucky enough to sit in front of hundreds and hundreds of customers, all with different issues, all with different problems, um, I found there was a bit of commonality in the gap. And you know the gap comes down to, and you'll hear me bang on about it, you'll see it over my socials and so forth around you know, three core pillars and that's the people, the process and providers. You know, individually they can look great, but if they're not connected properly then that's where the gaps appear and you know, that's what freight advice is built around. It's not about uh, coming in and pulling the rug out and making massive changes. You know we use the term look inside the box and you know that's looking in with the structure you've built, the processes you've got, the people you have and your providers. You know, we're not here to um, change providers, you know, but what we're here is to help you and uh, your processes get the most out of those providers.

Speaker B: Yeah, nice. Are you, is your customer base predominantly importers, exporters or is it the forwarders themselves or mixture or.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, direct to the importers and exporters at this point. And you know we deal with people at different stages in their journeys. You know, so it could be um, a more mature business that do have um, the infrastructure, the people and so forth in play but they want to sense check on what they're doing right. And you know what looks great on a dashboard isn't always reflective on the effort and uh, everything in the background. So you know we're able to have a look at that and put forward some improvements in that space. M. You know you've got people who are, who are new to the game. We see a lot of startups, right, um, you know, a lot of people starting up fashion businesses or products or whatever it might be and geez, they can learn the hard way, right? Not um, okay with what's happening. You know, for example, you know uh guys I've, I've worked with their supplier, said we'll look after it all. But uh, you know it's a CIF shipment, it turns up, they don't realize that there's local charges, customs clearance, all the other nuances that go on with it and all of a sudden uh, that blows out of the water on them. But I think the sweet spot for us right now is um, definitely that medium sized enterprise. And you know it could be a business that's 20 years old, you know, rather mature, founder led, um, they've built it on the fly especially from a logistics point of view. They don't have the internal capacity for a full time head in logistics to look after everything. Um, often people are double hatting, you know, they might be procurement, they might be um, sales, they could be anything but falls into that space as well and logistics becomes the last thing that's looked at and uh, you know, they do what they can do best and you know it works, but it can work better.

Speaker B: And what do you think like, like you've had really good exposure across different businesses now and now on the import export side. So direct to the customer. But what do you see? Um, what do businesses get wrong specifically around their supply chain? That seems to be maybe a reoccurring theme that you see.

Speaker A: Yeah, look, I think it's, uh, set and forget. You know, it becomes, uh, a little bit of comfortable inefficiency. You know, you could have great long standing people working with you, you could have great long term relationships with suppliers, but that becomes comfortable. And you know, what was a workaround for a certain situation then can get molded into the process.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And you know, I think taking the time to really look at that process, map it out and put it on paper. M. People don't see the gaps until they do that.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And what's in front of them every day might not seem like a risk or seem like an issue because they're used to it. M. And, uh, then identifying that and suggesting change and sometimes there's a reluctance to change because they feel it's working, but it can work better. So, you know, for me, that is probably something that is a core area and a core space where I think people need to take and spend some more time looking at.

Speaker B: And are you seeing much in the way of, you know, customers that say, if we go down the technology route, customers that maybe need or want to implement some of the latest technologies, they're not sure where to start or kind of where to go. I mean, has that played a part in your experience over the last few years or. Or not so much.

Speaker A: Yeah, so there's a couple of areas there. Um, you know, when you look at, uh, older generations and, you know, people of my ilk and so forth, we've grown up with the introduction of, uh, first of all, online tracking, you know, things like that. Right. But we haven't really adapted to it. Well. And you know, going back to my forwarding days, uh, we always had great tools in that space, but the real uptake on them wasn't great. You know, helping people self serve in that sense and utilizing the tools that are there. And I think too sometimes as a provider, you feel you're banging your head up against the wall, you know, you're showing a customer what's available, what they can do with it and the ability for it. You still get a phone call, you know, asking a question that's, uh, right in front of your customer's face. M. It's not saying you don't take the phone call and Answer that. But I think people adapting to that technology in some generations is slower. But then we've got to think about um, the new decision makers and the people that uh, are making their way up through um, these businesses now they're going to adapt to technology naturally because it's part of their day every single day. And I think sometimes um, the technology has paused a little bit in that space and we need to relook at that. And how do we serve those people? How do those people then get the most out of what we do via some M technology that we can apply

Speaker B: coming to the freight forwarding side and how they deal with the importer or the exporter. What would your advice be, if you have any, for how a forwarder should really deal with, with an importer and exporter and like I guess what a good relationship does look like from that perspective.

Speaker A: Let me just take a step back. I guess. So if a freight forwarder is, is working with a business that I'm working with, number one, they shouldn't see me as a threat. Okay. They should actually see me as an ally because my number one target is to help um, engage and educate the user of the freight forwarder on how to use the freight forwarder best. I think freight forwarders are really great at ah, delivering what's asked of them, you know. Yeah, they work hard, they'll get the space, they'll get um, the, the price that's needed and, and you know, push everything as far as they can. But I think sometimes the customer themselves makes the mistake of not asking for what they actually need. So you know, instead of um, saying yes and jumping straight into um, what's needed, I think a freight forwarder should take a step back and ask uh, a few more questions about that consignment. It might not be the world's most urgent consignment. So it can go on a slower service, it can go on deferred air freight, you know, um, it's not critical. Yeah, but then if you use that same process for something's critical, it's bound to fail. So you know, really understanding what the needs of a consignment is and then being able to flex the service around conditions, um, around what's happening, asking questions at the start, um, will build you those better executions in the end.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's good, really good. Have you seen much change? I mean you must have seen quite a lot of change, but what would you say has stood out to you over your career in terms of just maybe the industry in general? Or how people are operating or how customers are buying, if that's buying. But habits have maybe changed over the years. What have you seen that has been a bit of a shift?

Speaker A: Look, I think, um, uh, a big shift is the availability of information online. Okay. So. But it's the interpretation of that information that uh, is the fall down in a lot of places. Okay. You know, um, if I'm looking to purchase something myself, of course I jump online review, you know, find out what I can and can, make some decisions there. But you still always need that absolute expertise, you know, to make your mind up. Someone who's lived it, someone who's breathed it, someone who knows that here's uh, a potential risk. You know, you're always going to need people like that in your life to make, you know, big decisions. We're not talking about buying a 200 pair of shoes, right. You know, you've got someone with uh, tens, hundreds of thousands of dollars, uh, worth of stock in a consignment. You know, you can't make decisions based off just your own research. You need some expertise around that.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's good. And obviously a lot of challenges over the last few months coming out of the Middle east and that's a pretty dynamic situation. But you know, I guess you'd be used to, used to that being in the industry so long. But what are you seeing? What are, what are some challenges from your end that customers are seeing at the moment or that you're seeing that keeps cropping up? Um, specifically, you know, maybe over the last sort of 6 to 12 months.

Speaker A: Look, I think the challenges is in um, mindset and process. Right. Really. So, you know, volatility is uh, the new normal. Um, I hear people saying, I can't wait till things uh, revert back to how they were back to normal. But what is normal? Right? Yeah, normal's change. Now change is the only constant. And I think, um, you know, touching back on that medium sized business, they're the ones that have really um, got the best advantage because they're nimble and they're able to adapt to challenge quickly rather than that set and forget that we touched on earlier. They can make moves quickly to adjust to the marketplace. You know, a larger organization, um, you know, might have to rely on stock as a buffer, you know, because making changes to their supply chain or their logistics setup is difficult. You m. Know, there's a lot more to it than just moving that product from A to B. There's more moving parts either end. But you know, in that Medium sized business. I think uh, volatility you can really take advantage of.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And I know like off camera earlier we were just chatting a little bit about artificial intelligence and kind of what's that, like what that looks like in the industry. But you know, I think there's probably people out there that are maybe a little bit worried about could it take over my job and, and should I be planning for you know, to, to change jobs or change industries. But we were sort of saying that we don't necessarily think it is all doom and gloom and, and it as we've seen it hasn't come out and just replaced a whole, whole bunch of jobs. It's just made people a bit more efficient within their current jobs and what they can do achieve within a workday. But are ah, you sort of seeing anything on, on your end or what's your view I guess on, on the whole AI thing at the moment?

Speaker A: Look, we're only um, at the start of the journey right in that space. And I think um, AI, from what I'm seeing within, uh, the logistics and within our customer base that we talk with, AI is being used to remove mundane tasks.

Speaker B: Rem.

Speaker A: Right. Um, you know we spoke about previously, a lot of these tasks have been offshored, you know, um, put into data centers, whatever that might be. But you know that's just moving the labor cost into a uh, less costly area. So if that can be automated and uh, built out into something that's more efficient, then why wouldn't you do that? And I think that's where AI currently has its biggest play in the marketplace. Customer impact of that, we're not there yet in my view. Okay, so you know, customers talking direct to chatbots, um, you know, AI making decisions on customers behalfs and so forth. There's quite a way to go till uh, till that happens. But I think from um, you know, making things more efficient, removing um, mundane administration tasks and so forth, you know, AI is happening, it's happening now and it's well on the way and you know there's some great results in that. With forwarding being such a competitive space and you know, margins are tight, anything that a business can do to uh, help their profitability, um, is only good for a customer in that sense because uh, you know, your forward is more competitive than ever.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I think likewise, you know, it's creating a lot of opportunities as well. Right. Because the ability to now, you know, go on Claude or whatever you're using, spin up a website and spin up a uh, company Essentially, you know, within hours is kind of unbelievable at the moment. So I don't know what you think, but I think that there will be a whole bunch of new startups as well coming through, um, because of things like AI and because of the accessibility of now, how easy it is to set up. Not necessarily easy to be successful, but at least to set up and, and to have a go.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely, definitely. Um, and look, that's going to be there for everything, but you still got to build your credibility, right? Yeah, you know, um, runs on the board, trust, you know, proof points, all of those sorts of things. And AI isn't going to build that for you. Yeah, doing it is what does it. And, you know, whilst the ability to build something, to actually, uh, execute and be of value in the marketplace is completely different.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's true. And then, like, what do you reckon the next, you know, generation coming through, whether they're starting freight forwarding businesses or importers or exporters or whoever it is in the logistics space, what do you think that they need to be good at in order to be successful? Um, as the industry continuously evolves and changes?

Speaker A: I think don't try to be all things to all people. You know, find a niche and be really, really good at it. You know, find a niche that interests you as well. You know, you could be starting out something, you know, in a forwarding sense and, you know, for me, from the country, not that I've ever done it, but, you know, I've grown up around, um, farms and a lot of my old schoolmates, uh, are still on the land and so forth. The logistics and supply chain around, uh, agriculture is huge.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Um, you know, I sort of kick myself that that's something I never really jumped right into, um, because it's interesting and I know quite a bit about it, having been exposed to it most of my life.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So, you know, find something that you're interested in, find that niche and build that out and become an expert in that area.

Speaker B: Or never say never, Chris. Um, and look, we get a lot of younger people coming through, whether they're coming through our website or they're finding us on LinkedIn and they're starting to reach out to us, trying to break into the industry and not necessarily just forwarding, but broader supply chain and logistics as well. You know, some of these people have just left high school, uh, some of them have just graduated from uni. What would be your advice to, you know, the younger people, maybe 18, to sort of 21, that are looking to come in the industry and why they should think about actually getting into the industry in the first place. Like, what's your, what's your view on why we need more people?

Speaker A: Look, logistics and trade, um, is never going away. You know, you look back at some of the oldest laws ever written and, uh, you know, that's maritime law. You know, uh, bills are lading, you know, they date back to sailing, uh, boats and so forth. Right. So, you know, this is here, it's, it's here forever. And the opportunities to, um, work locally. Yes.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Use those skills to expand globally, you know, uh, are endless.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, just in my own life, I would have never imagined, uh, some of the trips that I've been lucky enough to go on, uh, work wise, you know, being through Europe, being through Asia and, and other places. Not just once, but, but regularly and then connecting with people globally.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, being able to enjoy the culture. You know, one of the best things I, I ever remember is, uh, sitting with, uh, some of the sales team in, in Vietnam and sitting in where they would eat in Vietnam. You know, don't take me to, to a restaurant. You know, don't show me off. I want to go where you guys go. And you know, things like that you just never look back on and you might not get to experience in a normal life.

Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. And what, what excites you like about where the industry is going? Um, you know, there is a bit of doom and gloom out there and, and you know, some, some pessimism. But what actually excites you? What keeps you, uh, optimistic?

Speaker A: You know, the, the doom and gloom thing again, going back to, uh, an old mentor of mine, you know, he said logistics is the first thing that will say a downturn, but it's the first thing that sees the upswing. Okay. You know, he used to use air freight in particular as a. You know, air freight will slow when an economy slows, but when it starts to tick up again, you know, air freight booms. So it is, it is in a cycle and um, you know, the amount of change and challenge that I've seen over my years, not one day is the same, you know, so if you're up for learning constantly, um, you know, if you want to problem solve, you know, if you want to try new things, um, if you want something to fall over and pick it up again and try it again, then, uh, you know, this is the place to be. It won't stop, um, it won't stop changing and it'll always be challenging.

Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. No, I agree. I, I tell people that as well. Like it's, it's not going to go, it's not going to go anywhere. You always need to move goods from A to B no matter what the economy is doing. And, and like you say, even you know, like I speak to a few clients and even in these challenging times that's actually creating opportunities for these clients as well. So yeah, you know there is always, always some good that can come out of you know, a bad situation at a macro level. So um, yeah, no, I, I, we need more people for sure.

Speaker A: Yeah. And look, I think there's more to it than you know, the operational side, you know, the commercial side and so forth. You know we're seeing a lot now um, with the way that um, we market businesses that changes. Right. I don't have the skill set but uh, my 18 year old daughter who uh, is brilliant at Socials and TikTok and all of those sorts of things, you know, they're just stuff that she's like at home by herself, you know and being to, able to apply that in, into business and especially in logistics where you know traditionally we're probably a bit slow on that uptake. You know, there's so much more to it than just uh, the traditional mindset.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Um, no, I really, I really appreciate the, the discussion and, and looking ahead, you know, for yourself and for freight advice, you know, new business. Where do you sort of see you had a crystal ball. What do the next sort of few years look like for you in a, in a perfect world?

Speaker A: Look a uh, perfect world would, would be um, obviously the, the scaling of the business. Right? That's, that's always number one. If, if you're not looking for growth um, then you know you, you might as well stop in that sense. So always uh, looking for new opportunities there but also divulging the business into uh, different areas. And, and something we're working on uh right now is whilst we focus primarily on the international logistics space, I'm now working with a customer looking a lot deeper into uh, their stock holdings. You know, how logistics uh, applies that, how we can get uh, a better return in their business by taking a more holistic view. So you know the product offering is expanding there. So uh, from more the international logistics piece into, deeper into the supply chain. So that's really interesting and exciting as well.

Speaker B: Nice. That's really good. And where's the best place for people to find you? LinkedIn or your website or.

Speaker A: Yeah, look, LinkedIn, um, my only form of Social media. It's, uh, we're quite active there on LinkedIn, myself and Freight advice. Start there, move on to our web page. Um, and, you know, LinkedIn, my contact details are, uh, direct there. Others don't do it. I'm not sure why. Pick up the phone, give me a call.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. Chris Rowe, really appreciate you jumping on and, yeah, it's been a good, good discussion to get, you know, your thoughts on where the industry's going and, and what's happening and. Yeah. Any final sort of thoughts or, or anything before we wrap up?

Speaker A: No, look, I think, um, it's been, it's been a great chat. You know, it's always, always interesting to hear what else is going on in the marketplace and we had a bit of a chat off air around that. Pardon me, but I think, um, you know, if there's people out there who, um, want to see if it can be done better, you know, they might have been doing it the same way time and time again. Um, please reach out. If it's not to me, reach out to your incumbent, uh, reach out to your current suppliers, whoever that might be. Ask them what's new, because if you don't ask, you don't get. And sometimes, uh, our industry is horrendous at passing on information. So ask and see what's out there.

Speaker B: Yeah, good way to end it. Chris Rowe, thank you so much. I really appreciate you jumping on.

Speaker A: Thank you, Sam. Appreciate your time. Have a great day.

Speaker B: Thanks, mate.