78. Andrea Hogan, Prior CMO of Qualcomm & Camino de Santiago finisher!

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Curiosity with Kristen podcast. Here you'll hear real conversations with everyday people making a difference, living their purpose, being parents, trying their best, and sharing their knowledge of life experiences, both professionally and personally. You'll also hear from executives about their companies and what cool things they're doing, plus how they're navigating their companies and their people. Forward. Each episode is unique and covers wide ranging topics that give my guests an opportunity to share what they've learned, are learning, and continue to learn, of course, along with wisdom, hope, and some great stories too. I hope it gives you encouragement and strength to learn, grow and and be curious.

Speaker A: Today I'm joined by Andrea Hogan, whose journey spans continents, careers, and one of the most remarkable transformation pilgrimages. From growing up in Ireland to building a remarkable leadership career with companies like IBM and Qualcomm, Andrea seems to have everything on track. But when her mother was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, life took an unexpected turn. That chapter eventually led Andrea to walk the 500 mile Castle Camino de Santiago, a journey that became far more than just a hike. Along the way, she carried her mother's journal from the very same pilgrimage years earlier, creating an extraordinary conversation across time, love and memories. That experience inspired her beautiful book, the Closest Thing to Magic, which I have read and highly recommend. In this episode, we talk about career transitions, identity beyond work, finding joy alongside grief, happy emoji cells, the power of slowing down, and why. Sometimes the biggest transformation begins with simply taking the first step. Enjoy. Welcome to Curiosity with Kristen. I have Andrea Hogan, kind of a newer friend, but we've, uh, we're kindred spirits, that's for sure. Um, and really looking forward to. I just, I noticed some of the things that you had been doing, not only CMO for large companies, but just some of the, you know, marketing and then also what you're doing for clients. And then of course we got into our passions for working out and triathlons and all the fun stuff and travel. So, um, so. And then, and then what my a, uh, big thing is when you started talking, that beautiful accent and I was like,

Speaker C: anything I want.

Speaker A: Really? Can I. You really can, Absolutely.

Speaker C: That takes the pressure off. That takes the pressure off, right?

Speaker A: Exactly. Well, welcome and thanks for joining.

Speaker C: Well, thank you for having me here. It's, it's a pleasure to um, to come on and like, like you said, uh, be. Before we started recording here, this is really just a continuation of a conversation that we had that could have gone on for hours. So I hope the listeners enjoy it as much as I did.

Speaker A: Well, I know I did as well. So I think they will for sure. So we'll just walking back. I have to have a little snippet of Ireland and where you're from and, uh, what brought you here to the U.S. yeah, absolutely.

Speaker C: So, yeah, I was born and raised in Galway in the west coast of Ireland. For those of you who don't know, I've got to say Ireland when I'm in America, because when I say I'm from Ireland, as we say it, say

Speaker A: it just like you. I love it.

Speaker C: Ireland. And people are like, what? Ireland? No, Ireland. No, Ireland. So I have to say Ireland like this.

Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. Say it the way you are, because I'm hoping to visit and then I'll make sure I'm starting to pronounce it the right way. Maybe you start a trend here in the U.S. i, uh, will.

Speaker C: I've become very Americanized in a lot of good ways. So, um, I'm, um, keeping the best of both. But, yeah. So from the west coast of Ireland, Galway. It's her largest city. And then great upbringing, fantastic country. I mean, really the only disadvantage of being in Ireland is the lack of sunshine, which actually helped me, uh, you know, preserve my skin in my 50s now, which I'm thankful for. But at the time, growing up, not having any sun 365 days a year got a bit old. So I had made a decision very early on in my life that I was going to be finding somewhere to live that was sunny. So, uh, that kind of led me to the U.S. uh, the West coast of the U.S. san Diego, arguably the best climate in the U.S. and, um, I started out actually in San Francisco in my early 20s, and I came over right after college in pursuit really of a. Of a career in. I wanted to be at the forefront of, uh, marketing of technology. And then that's really. The west coast of America was where. Where I was at, you know, in San Francisco was where it was at in the 90s. So started my career very fortuitously at, uh, IB. I spent a few years there and then took a little pivot. Uh, my boyfriend, now my husband at the time, couldn't get a visa over to the US and he'd gotten a stint to Singapore with his job. Uh, so I decided to go back and join him there for a year. And then they actually very luckily sent him over to California for a year. And we arrived here and, uh, started our family and kind of never left. So, uh, that's kind of how I ended up in The US and how I ended up in San Diego. But I feel like I travel home so much that I really live in two of the best countries in the world. Really?

Speaker A: Oh, that's wonderful. So you moved here in the 90s, is that right? I did.

Speaker C: I moved over in 1995. I know, it's crazy. It was a very different place then, you know, very different place.

Speaker A: And so curious. I grew, so I grew up near Redondo Beach, Torrance area. My uh, life moved up here in 95 and funny enough, the culture shock was like. I remember walking out and my window was frosted. Like I had like iced. And I was like, wait, what is this? And then the girl, I went running and it was still dark. Um, I had to wake up at like 4:30 to run before I could get to work at 7:30. And I was kind of a whole big deal. But I remember looking and I was like, what is that? And realized it was actually frost on the grill grass too. Um, so it was just so different. So I wonder when you came here, what were some of the like things that stood out to you, some of the early things that you either liked or were surprised about?

Speaker C: Well, the biggest surprise, which I was actually clueless about, this is actually hysterical for all the women on the phone. I didn't have a weighing scales, didn't, um, came to the US and just ate what I thought was healthy food, but ate a lot of it. So like I fell in love with Caesar salad. I didn't realize I had buckets of calories. And I fell in love with the sourdough in San Francisco. But I also, after a summer of fun and eating all this food which I thought was super healthy, hadn't noticed that I had actually ballooned in weight. And I, when I went to go shopping for, because I was getting a real job interview for a job going from host testing to needing a suit with IBM. And I shopped in um, what was it at the time, Marshalls or Ross or one of these, you know, ah, low cost stores that had everything right because the sizes were different. So in Ireland I had been a size, I don't know, a size 12, which in the US would equate to a size now about 4, you know. Yeah, but I actually was shopping now and I was trying on clothes and I was a size 10 or 12 thinking, oh, I'm in, I'm exactly the same Irish size. Not realizing that was quite a bit larger, I gained quite a bit of weight. But you know, the beauty of it too was That I was actually quite oblivious to it and I was having such a good time. But, uh, yeah, so that was the first big culture shock was of course the food portions and the. Maybe that everything wasn't quite as healthy as Ireland. But you know, a lot of great things about the U.S. i, I just love the weather, I love the sense of possibility. I love that there was such a diverse mishmash of people from all over the world. I love being, you know, independent and, and alone and um, with a bunch of great friends that I met. And I think, um, you know, the pace at which things moved was much quicker than Ireland. So that was a huge contrast. Right. But I love that it felt so much more energetic and was exactly where I should have been at that point in my life, you know.

Speaker A: Yeah, fantastic. And so when you came here to San Diego, so you were at IBM in San Francisco and then you went to, uh, it looks like, I see Dublin, but I don't know if that was.

Speaker C: Yeah, I took a stint to go back to Dublin. It was actually funny because I was going back for a few months knowing we were leaving again, but I had to go back and live with them for a few months to be considered a domestic partner so we could go to Singapore together. So I was going back, but I was so independent. I'm a product of my parents, I think, marriage and divorce. I was always, I'm going to be on my own two feet, I'm going to have my own money. Even though I knew I was going to be there for four or five months, the idea of not working was terrifying for me. So in the 90s, when we weren't really doing dial up and interviews remotely, I did, I interviewed for a company in Dublin when I was in San Francisco, got a job, you know, knowing I was gonna be leaving in four or five months. But I figured I'd cross that bridge when I got to it. So took a job with a company out in, outside Dublin, in the technical area of Dublin. And um, they were doing Lotus Notes groupware at the time, which is what I was doing with IBM. And uh, I took the job and within three months I knew I was gonna have to give them my notice, right. So I told them that, oh, this thing had popped off my husband's opportunity. And I had no idea when I took the job, but I absolutely had to go. And um, I did feel bad about it, but I also, um, thought that maybe something would come out of it and it did. They offered me a remote contract which was kind of unheard of in the 90s. Getting something like. Something ridiculous, like £50 an hour working in Singapore while I was with my husband, um, my boyfriend, then working remotely, dialing up on my compact 386. You know, remember the old days when you dial up and you hear the modem m go? Yep. You connect.

Speaker A: Yep. That whole sound. Right?

Speaker C: Yeah. That was kind of a ballsy move, I think. But I also. God, look, I'd been in the corporate a long time, and I, or, uh, at least instinctively had that good. A good sense of, like, you have to do what's right for you, and sometimes you've got to get a little bit creative, and sometimes those creative opportunities result in, you know, something that's better for you and the organization, you know, but you have to put your best interests at heart, you know? And, um, yeah, I think I learned that I instinctively knew that early in my life, and it served me well.

Speaker A: That's amazing. So when you were in Singapore, you're working remotely. How was that for someone that's, you know, I'm sure you were young and, you know, not in an office with other folks, but then in a new country. Uh, and then I know you were there for about a year or so. Well, it looks like you took some time off too, in between there.

Speaker C: Yeah, I took that year there, and that was great because, you know, I was working remotely, but I was on very set deliverables, so it was more kind of work that needed to be kind of. They took. It was not really relevant m. To the experience I had, but more the experience that I'd accumulated at IBM being in a, you know, big company, lots of great kind of like, processes in place, and they wanted help with kind of systems and. And contracts and things that a new client kind of onboarding, things that I did with IBM that weren't really part of my job. So it was stuff that I could do more in a silo. And, you know, I had a lot of free time, too. I was working four hours a day. So I kind of immersed myself into the culture of Singapore and I traveled and I. I joined the cricket club. They played field hockey and I played hockey there, and I, you know, so I. I never felt lonely because I was very much, you know, my few hours working and then my. My life in Singapore, which was, you know, a whole new country, a whole new experience, and I love that. Yeah.

Speaker A: I think now I know I definitely know why we are kindred spirits. I would have been the same way. It was like, oh, this is awesome to uh, meet new people, new culture. Check it out.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker C: Exactly. There was certainly never a dull moment. It would have been different if I had been like, you know, 24 7, working and not in the same place or with the same people. Uh, it was a lovely balance, actually.

Speaker A: Right, Absolutely. So then you got a. Columbia University was, uh, um, program. A Chief Marketing Officer program.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I came back to the U.S. um, with my husband after that, and we just ended up back in San Diego. And then, you know, between a couple of gigs, agency work, having children, and then really landed back at IBM at Qualcomm, and, um, which has been, you know, the. The big career that I've had the last 15 years. Lots of different roles with them. But the one wonderful thing about Qualcomm is they really encourage you to take, you know, continued education, which I. You know, my mother used to always say to me, never look a gift horse in the mouth, which was so true. Like, it's like, if are offering you things, take full advantage of them. It's like. Like, I just approached that, my life that way. I've got great health. I should take full advantage of it. I have, you know, hopefully a fairly decent mind. I should take full advantage of it. I have social skills. You know, I think we can always improve, but take advantage of the gifts that you're given and the opportunities that you have. And, you know, most companies don't reimburse education tuition, so I took a lot of continued education. But I really was always interested in, you know, in the marketing space, you're generally working in one particular area, and I wanted to always make sure that I was augmenting my experience with the academia of marketing and staying relevant and staying current, just, uh, adding to my repertoire, you know. So Columbia was a phenomenal program that also gave me access to a lot of great people, new friends, found a network in different places that have been super helpful, actually, at different junctures in the last few years.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And then. So Qualcomm. What made you leave Qualcomm? I know we talked a little bit about it, but, uh, for the podcast, uh, folks, you were, uh. Well, and I think. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty straightforward, actually. Yeah, it is.

Speaker C: But I also want to take a moment to, like, you know, there's the story that you say, or you. The narrative. I'm a marketeer, so there's always a narrative. Right. So there's a narrative you say at a particular point in time, which is about kind of holding your head up high and Doing the right thing. And then there's the kind of reality and truth. I think at the time when I left Qualcomm there was uh, uh, an organizational shift. A sponsor of mine who was very, very senior in the organization had left and because of that there was a rebalancing in the organization, a reorg. Right. So and my team ended up on the least favorable side of that. So the opportunities that were presented to me were just not things that I felt were going to expand my career or going to be really aligned with where I was at at that given point in time. So that coincided with my mother had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's. I had just turned 50. I knew there was something was going to give. I felt kind of very much at a crossroads. I wanted to go back and help and support her, get her into long term care. And I knew there another chapter coming and I felt like I just needed a break. I felt I had been like the last year or two been quite stressful in the organization and I felt like I was managing politics more than I was doing work and that wasn't fun for me.

Speaker A: No, I definitely know I had similar situations towards the end. I mean I was Ah, for 24 years but 13 years curious. You know, you moved up to CMO for North America channel sales. Talk a little bit about that role and your experience at Qualcomm.

Speaker C: Um, yeah, I adored my experience at Qualcomm. I mean I started out as an individual contributor and I always loved that thinking that, you know, the responsibility for my work lies with me. I don't manage people. I just like you give me a job to do and I'm 100% responsible for no excuses. When I was made a manager, I think that was one of the greatest gifts and learnings of my life is that I actually love being a manager. And I was actually as much as I always thought I was a good advocate for myself, I realized comparatively I wasn't and that I was a much better advocate for other people. It was so easy for me to be instinctively in people corner and help them and promote them. And I loved the opportunity to create a culture that was like energetic and fun and motivated and to this sense of responsibility that I had to lead and inspire my team which was um, I loved that. I loved having to rise and step up to the occasion, you know. So Qualcomm was an amazing um, company in that sense to work for. I also talked about the education experiences almost the role expansion. I had so many different experiences at Qualcomm and the biggest part of really, I think my role, what it was, was, um, I absolutely thrived with relationships. I loved working for our customers. I loved wearing the hat of our customers, advocating for them. We started with a company that had no real brand and trying to build a partner program with huge brands like Google and Microsoft and Motorola and HP and Lenovo and Best Buy and Amazon. And you know, for these brands to give you attribution or recognition or to work with them, you generally have to have big empty pockets, you know, be able to sign these big check. We didn't have that. But we needed to attach ourselves, these brands to build some cache ourselves. And a lot of times you had to get super, super creative, but you also had to be very much trusted and liked by our customers. And to really come at it from a, um, we're solving this problem together. What is your problem? How can we help you? And how can we really bring something brilliant to the, to the customer? And my, that was always the way I approached things and that was how my team, I really hired people, people orientated teams and um, people who just were phenomenally good at building relationships and getting the work done. And that to me was, um. I think I came out of it, I think my greatest strength in that role. I mean, I went from channel sale managing, kind of onboarding new channels to managing all our partners across all the different adjacent parts of our business from mobile IoT wearables. But really the, the common thread was this, managing relationships and being able to have multiple parties work on a particular program, project or product launch and really with one end game in mind and everyone feeling like they were in it together and we were all part of a greater cause. That was where I felt like I brought my magic. You always have to think about what is your value prop, what do you bring to the table? And I think at Qualcomm, at first I was so uncomfortable with that being my thing because, you know, I was in a company full of engineers and PhDs and I always felt like, oh my God, they're so smart. Comparatively. I know nothing. I'd walk into offices, people, patents all over the wall, like stacked patterns that were all over the wall and also stacked at the bottom of the wall. These were people who were just so smart. And I never felt really comfortable early on. And, um, this is what I bring to the table. But I really started to appreciate that because that's what set me apart. You do need those kind of people, but you need people that will build the kind of Relationships that people will answer the phone to. The people read your email, respond to you and want to come back to you. Not just because you've got a great product, because they really like working with your teams.

Speaker A: Exactly. Isn't it interesting? The smartest people and those folks need that relationship. They don't know how to do it yet. That's your strength. And so it's just a win, win. And also as you're talking, I can hear just the uh, genuine um, love of, you know, it feels almost not like work. Right. It's like it never gets people. Right. Um, I can tell that while you're talking. And it's so interesting where um, and I, I know I had that for many years at my, and even in my company is where it's, it doesn't feel like work where I get to help people and advocate for them and, and really uh, with solutions like I, I've got a solution for you. I can help you, um, versus like hey, buy this from me. Yeah, never like that.

Speaker C: 100% right? Yeah.

Speaker A: Ah, exactly.

Speaker C: It seems like a small shift, but it's a significant way of approaching something, you know, wearing their hat like. And you're solving. I always thought about it too. Like you got to solve the problem for the customer. What problem are we all solving? We can all rally around that. It's not your problem, my problem. What problem are we collectively solving for? And how do we each bring, what do we each bring to that to help solve, you know, and it just, it changed everything and just having fun. I also recognized after every project we would, we would get together and have like a kind of appreciation and kind of celebration and you know, even small things like what we would do, we would give vouchers for, you know, lunches so they could drink Covid so the teams, when we were working remotely, people could have a celebratory lunch. They'd have like Uber eats, they'd have like a lunch together. We would just get feedback from our customers and how we worked. And it was interesting because, you know, at Qualcomm a lot of our customer to customer meetings never had marketing included, you know, and it was mainly, you know, and there are tough topics like pricing and supply and like things that weren't fun. But when they realized how well the marketing teams were getting along and the value we were bringing and kind of the energy that those teams collectively and the results that we were able to um, get, we started getting included more and more on these agenda for these like, you know, exec to exec. Meetings at company level, where marketing was kind of like an afterthought. You know, it's like, okay, you guys do your thing. We're going to talk about the real business right now, which is really about, you know, the pricing and the procurement. Like, no, this is the real business, you know, Exactly. And.

Speaker A: And then when it becomes that way and they're all working together, it makes it then. Then you know what everyone's doing and then you can forecast better about like, ooh, or have an idea like, exactly. This client is doing this, and maybe this could be helpful for this and. And maybe change. Yeah, absolutely. So curious. So then I know you decided you made the. The choice to leave. I know. And, uh, uh, with your mom as well, you know, going back and forth and starting your own. And that was just, what, a year ago?

Speaker C: A year and a half ago. Ah, yeah. June 24th.

Speaker A: Right. Can't believe how fast time goes. I looked at that and I'm like, no, that's. No, they can't.

Speaker C: Fast. I know, it's crazy.

Speaker A: It's so fast. So when you left, because you were there for a long time, how was the transition?

Speaker C: You know, it was really good. I mean, I was gonna take a deliberate pause. I was going back to get mom into full time care. And, um, so I knew it would be six months or so that I was taking for sure off. And I actually was interviewing as soon as I left for an opportunity that came up. But I knew that that was the wrong thing to do, was to go back straight into the fray. I needed to be in Ireland, get her into care. And then when I was back home, that was when I stumbled on, when I was moving into her care facility, her journal that she'd written on the Camino Santiago. And that was her. The greatest adventure of her life, in her own words. And she had done that at 68 in 2012. And I just found this really modest copy book that she scribbled notes in every day. So she'd kept this journal she hadn't showed us. And when I was home, the magnitude of her Alzheimer's hit me during that time. It was very traumatic getting her into her home because there's a stage in Alzheimer's where it wasn't that she was so far gone that she didn't care or didn't know the difference. She did. She was aware there was a lot of anxiety around the movement. You know, she didn't want to be left alone. She didn't want to be not in her home. She didn't There was a lot of a um, lot of very tough emotional heaviness that came with that. And I realized how much my sister had been bearing as you know, the daughter who was there taking care of everything. I mean when you're living abroad from your parents or living away from your parents, I mean there's times where, especially when they get sick, that distance can shield you sometimes, but it can also break you in ways that you anticipate in advance. M so I felt that breakage heavily when I was there that time. And when I found the copy book, I felt like that was really just an invitation for me to do the Camino at that moment. Like to do it right now, to go and take that time to not just kind of come to terms with mom's, the loss of her and maybe finding out more about who she was to make up for that loss, but also to manage my own transition and what was coming next. Because be honest, I wasn't quite sure what that was going to be. Mhm.

Speaker A: Absolutely. So you're there and then you're going on the Camino. Like how did you plan for that? And I mean it worked out perfect because you were, you had the time off. It did, but you got your mom into a care and then found the journal and then I'm going right now.

Speaker C: It worked out perfectly. I mean I gave back for a brief stint. I told my husband I really wanted to turn around and do this while I was off still. And My son was 15, my daughter was well on her way and 24. She's actually doing med school in Dublin and she was in college and like, so it was, it was really great timing and my husband was like, yeah, absolutely, you should do this. And training wise, I mean, look, I can't take. It's 850 kilometers, you know, 25, 35 kilometers a AH day. Of course it's a physical feat, but. And there are people who do it in their 80s and people who do it in their 20s, so they're you know, from all ages, ranges and abilities. But I had been, I think I was at the fittest in my whole life at that point. I had just done a half ironman, I just climbed Mount Whitney. Like I didn't really need to train per se. I figured I'd fine. I'm not saying it wasn't tiring. I was. Days where you're walking six, eight hours a day, it's tiring. But then a few days, that's part of it too. You're. You just build this New strength. My legs became stronger, and I didn't have one blister on the Camino. I can talk about the footwear and give a. Give a plug for that, but honestly.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah.

Speaker A: What? I'm dying. What shoes did you use?

Speaker C: So I did. I used ultras. What is that? Ultras?

Speaker A: Oh, Altras. Oh, I have those.

Speaker C: And then, I mean, probably two thirds of the Camino I walked in my teeth. If you have, obviously, any kind of foot issues, need support or that's not going to work for you, but they worked amazingly. I rubbed a little bit of Vaseline on my, you know, around the straps every day, put them on, and, um, they were just absolutely perfect. I, you know, the days were out high in mountains or tougher terrain. I put the, the hiking runners on, but otherwise the Tevas were spectacular.

Speaker A: That is amazing. So you did it in six to eight hours a day for 35, 35 days. 35 days. And that. That was the whole thing. So you said 850 kilometers. What is that in miles? I can't even think.

Speaker C: It's about 550. It starts the south and you end up. I actually clocked 1,000, nearly 100. Because, you know, when you get to a town, you can. You end up walking around and sightseeings. That's the official mileage. Like, they would joke. They would joke and go, um. You know, I would, uh, get into a town and people would, like, pile into the, you know, the hostels and they, like, backpacks off, you know, communal showers, and they collapse on the bed, pass out for the afternoon, and I would just dump my backpack and I would be out, like, trying to see the town and checking out museums and churches and, like. And I, again, I feel that's kind of. I'm so thankful that I have that kind of approach to life, but also that energy that can do that.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: Um, I just, uh.

Speaker A: I would have been right there with you. I wish I would have gone with you.

Speaker C: You would have absolutely loved it. But how lucky, you know, when people really are done with the day and you still feel you still have more to do. I think that's just a lovely way to be. And, um. Yeah, a lot of miles clocked, but it was. I, uh, never really felt it, really, to be honest.

Speaker A: Tell a little bit about, um, what you did with that time with your journal and, uh, the book.

Speaker C: Yeah, so I kind of had this lovely ritual where I didn't take my mom's copy book with me. I didn't want to lose it, but I'd taken photographs of every page. And so what my plan was to write my own journal every night and then read her journal and just see if there was commonalities, because I was following, following the exact path. There's different Caminos. The official one's called Camino Francis. Starts at St. Jean Pied Port, over the, uh, French Pyrenees, and then across the north of Spain to Santiago. So I did the exact same path with her and pretty much stopped in exactly every single village that she stopped in. Um, and I'd mapped that route out in advance, but I would read her journal entry after I wrote mine. And it was really interesting. There were days where there was such beautiful parallels, like two, you know, one time we both lost our guidebook on the same leg and someone at Pilgrim had returned it. You know, we hadn't lost it. We found it again. And there was a day, I think the most probably spectacular coincidence was this town called Porto Marin. It was towards the end of the Camino, probably the last maybe seven or eight nights, and this old Roman town that had this 1000 year old Roman bridge. And I had gone for. I dumped my stuff and I was sitting on the bridge and I was writing in my journal.

Speaker B: And.

Speaker C: And I kind of this point, I'd kind of made some friends and kind of a few of us on a WhatsApp group. And, um, I tried to be very deliberately more solo in the first part of the Camino. But towards the end, these people that you meet along the way, you just kind of help, but kind of form a group. Mom had done the same. And I just texted and said, hey, why don't we go for a swim? We're down here, you know, there's a lovely little river here. Do, um, you want to go for a dip tonight? So within a few minutes, there was seven or eight of us down with a six pack of beer. And we all went for a dip. And I came out of the water and I. And I remember telling the story to my husband. I didn't want to take it as any kind of like an insult, but because I've been married and having children. Lots of big moments in our lives, right? As a woman. But when I was sitting there, I can't even explain, the sun was going down, and I just had this feeling of, like, complete and utter, like, joy and lightness. Like, it was the happiest I think I'd ever felt, the freest I'd ever felt. And I was writing to my daughter, that light. And I said in a text, and I Said it was kind of like every cell in my body had a smiley face emoji on it. You know, I just felt this, like I just hadn't felt that way. And I just, I thought about it and I wrote that in my journal entry that night. I wrote, I've never felt happier. And my mom's last line in her journal that night had, when I read it was, I've never been happier. And I was like, how special was that on that day that she was. I thought she was really with me. She obviously channels herself with me that day. It was really, really powerful. And um, I think.

Speaker A: What day was that on the trail? How many days have you been on the trail?

Speaker C: It was about 30 days in Port of Marin. And I think that was the other thing was that they say this on the Camino. Like there's um. It's designed to be that long for a reason. It's a thousand year old pilgrimage and you know, people go for a week. I'm not dissing that at all. You know, you've got limitations in your life and a day by yourself is better than no time at all. But I think it's designed to be that way. Like the first seven, they say the first third really tests you physically, you know, and then the second, second, third is about uncluttering in your mind because we're. You're finally getting used to having all those responsibilities and burdens and tasks and to dos and um, you just unclutter and free your mind. And the last leg of it is this kind of like where there's a spiritual transformation, where there's this kind of like sense of awareness. And that's what it was like.

Speaker B: It.

Speaker C: I didn't know how else to explain it, but it had taken all of that time and all of those steps and all of those miles to get to a point where I felt like, oh my God, this is what it likes to get back. It feels like I was getting back to the best version of myself, maybe meeting the best version of myself for the first time in my life. And I just wanted to share that with people because it took that journey for me. It took that 30 days, it took that 700 kilometers. So it's not easy to get to, but how beautiful. And it made me feel that. I think joy is our default factory setting. I think it is, is. I just don't know how. We just don't know how to tap into it. We don't know how to find it, you know, and it seems like a lot to have to do, to find it. But it also makes me realize that it's there. You know, we just gotta give ourselves permission and time and space to do it.

Speaker A: Oh, I, uh, love it. Isn't it interesting? So joy versus happiness, right? It's a real like, oh, be happy. But joy is a different thing. And then peace. I wondered if you know, with, with peace. I know that's a big one too, so I don't know if it's peaceful joy. Did you feel peace as well? And was that earlier or joy first or.

Speaker C: Um, I think it was both kind of together. I felt huge peace in that moment too. Like this sense that um, I think everything just kind of like all of the things that seemed that were important before were not important. The things that shouldn't have been important. Like I had, I didn't realize that I had completely over identified with a career. Like I was such an executive in my mind and I thought that wasn't a big deal. But when I was in the Camino, I realized how much I'd over identified with that part of who I am. And um, because of that I hadn't made no space for the other big parts of who I was, which was, you know, I'm romantic and I am, um, playful and I am, um, you know, adventurous. And I knew those things were there, but I somehow felt they couldn't coexist. And now there was this feeling that like I can be all of those things and they can coexist but I do need to make space for them all. Uh, I can't hide these other parts of who I am or make excuses for them. I need to make space for them. There needs to be fun in my life. There needs to be playfulness, there needs to be. It can't all be competition. And that would, the balance hadn't been there. I'd really over indexed on the career and having how I had to show up and being tough and, and not really kind of bringing all of who I was to the table. And that was a realization in the moment. Like there's lots of parts to me, there's lots of parts to all of us. Right, right. And we can be all of those things.

Speaker A: Isn't it amazing how there was so much joy and happiness in your job? You felt very fulfilled, I guess, maybe fulfilled. Giving back and helping both. That's very fulfilling. Um, but then the same kind of, of feeling, but yet absolutely different. Enjoying Peace also at 30 days and you know, it's. Yeah. And I think we all, you know, having, having had Both experiences too, I think is, is very big. And I guess looking back, you know, both are important. Right. It's like, you know, and then one without the other, then you realize how important the other one is too. But that when it comes down to it and getting back to who we are, we have so much technology, so many things on our plates. I know that never ends right before getting it in.

Speaker C: Yeah. I think, um, it also made me realize like, I really want to do so much in my life. I've always been that way. But there's a difference between like, like the busy productive. I think what I think that is it's kind of wasted time and the experience time. Like putting experiences of your life and you know, trips and moments with family, loved ones or yourself. That's the stuff that's worth putting into your life. Like The I'm busy 24 hours a day. That, that's not feeding your soul. You know, that's not, that's not the stuff that you're going to look back on, on these say, time well spent.

Speaker A: I did the same thing and this is when I first started my company.

Speaker C: I love this lift everything.

Speaker A: So number three is working.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: One is family. Number two is health and fitness. That's why I did my milestone before this. And then I do also, uh, women's retreats and vacations and things like that. And then my goal is to, at the very bottom it says say hell yeah five times a day. Get excited.

Speaker C: Hell yeah is that I really want to do this versus a yes. That us women say all the time when we don't want.

Speaker A: Right, Right.

Speaker C: Yes. Way too often the stuff we should not be saying. Yes. But you only say hell yes when you're like super excited about that.

Speaker A: You know, there's a book I just read, Open to Work by the main person at LinkedIn and Microsoft. Yeah. And it talked a lot about the Industrial Revolution and about how back before then it was like eight in 10 families had very severe poverty. And then after the Industrial revolution it was 1 in 10. I mean huge difference. And ye, um, very grateful for the fact that, you know, we have the suburbias and the houses and we're able to put our kids in schools, but also the health care system, although there's a lot to be said with that. But yet there is that. And yes, you know, that, that we are uh. And yet I'm just going to say we're healthier. We're not healthier though, with uh, the foods and the things that there's things like that But. But overall, I guess I'd say is we are way better off than we were back then.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah.

Speaker A: You know, that. That's something to be super grateful for. I think it sometimes did get over indexed in the sense of like, you know, we work so much. I remember actually when I started in 96, actually yesterday was my 30 years with recruiting. 429.

Speaker C: Congratulations.

Speaker A: Thank you. It was so crazy to think, but, uh, I remembered back then everyone talked about working 40 hours and then like, oh, is there overtime? Like the overtime was a bigger conversation. And then it just didn't. It wasn't a conversation anymore because everyone was working longer. And then for the big four. Ah, the CPAs that I was talking with, they were. I met this one guy. It was. He was, you know, a couple years in and he left after, I don't know, three years or so. Um, and he said the reason he left was he was driving home at like 1 or 2am M. Because they were. Worked so much and got in a massive car accident on the freeway. And that like shook him up. I mean, he was okay. And I spoke with someone yesterday who's in with an investment firm and he's calling me because, you know, he works all day, he works far away. And then his bosses start texting you at 10pm and from midnight to 6am they're working too. I'm like, where did. When did they sleep? You know, it's like, so. It's just so much, you know, so. And when you're in that, that and you see how, how big it is, um, or how big you think it is and how important you think it is, because then you're also making more money and there's more of that. And it's like, okay, well, that's nice, but to what extent of your health? And then there's a lot of conversations I'm having lately also with a lot of people who have gotten up in those careers that are now needing a break. I just saw another text from this guy who started a business. This, uh, I think it was maybe 10 years ago, um, and was all in. And I, you know, they grew a lot. I, I didn't as much because I've stayed true to my little blue index card. Uh, and he's, he's leaving and uh, the company is still going without him. But, you know, I, I think he just needed time because it was burnout,

Speaker C: you know, um, there's almost some reason. Another podcast this morning with them Alzheimer's Speak. We were talking about how people don't think about death in this country, you know, And I, I don't want to be, bring us down here to like a grim topic, but people should think about that more often. We should be conscious about how short our time is here on earth, like it's going to happen, it's inevitable. And um, you know, I've been spending a lot of time in homes. My mind, I go home, I'm in the home every day for seven or eight days. And I can't help but be overcome with emotion but also urgency when I see people around me who are maybe 70s, 80s, that's 20 years, 30 years from where I'm at. And you know, the ones that are cognizant looking at me and going like, God, wouldn't I give anything to be back in my 50s again. Wouldn't I give anything to be able to walk, run, go on a trip, be on my own? Like, I'm so conscious of the privilege that it is to be at this juncture in my life with the means that I have in my life. And I have no intention of wasting that. And I wish everyone could feel that way because I think we talked about this in our previous conversation. There was that show that I was watching, I think the Madison with um, the new one with Michelle Pfeiffer. And there's a moment where her husband, he talks about, I think it's so beautifully said. He's, and I'm gonna probably butcher this, but he was talking about they were super wealthy and they were living in New York and they had gone, they were retiring and they'd gone on this trip to Thailand and stayed in this $7,000 a night resort. Beautiful, right? And they were walking down the beach seeing like people like couples like themselves and they were these big brimmed hats protecting themselves in the sun, loads of sunscreen on, on long sleeve shirts protecting themselves from skin cancer. And no one's running, no one's swimming in the ocean, no one's like hugging, kissing, and he's like. And as I walked on the beach, I realized that, you know, you're waiting all your life for this moment. And the looks on all of our faces and we knew it was, that this moment had passed. The moment it passed. And you're waiting, you're accumulating, you're, you know, adding those extra dollars to your 401k or just putting them on. Like then you get to a point and you can't do any of those things. Like you're, you're a, you know, a version of yourself that. That, you know, can't do those things anymore or doesn't. And that's the other thing I think about. I think about, like, as I get older, like, how you feel about yourself, how you feel about age. I want to be at 70, running down a beach. If I can still run on a

Speaker A: beach, heck, yeah, I'll be running with you.

Speaker C: I want to get sort of my skin, you know, I'm. I'm conscious of skin cancer too, but, like, yeah, there's. There's balance, you know, And I feel like. Like taking that youthful perspective, but also. Also living in the moment. Giving yourself permission to live now and not put off for tomorrow while you can do today. There's never a better day than today.

Speaker A: No. And. And isn't it amazing? Because there's the past, there's the future, but it's the present. And the present is the present, right?

Speaker C: It is the present is the present, right?

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I couldn't say it any better than what you're saying, because I really feel, uh, the same. I spoke with someone actually, yesterday. Oh, my gosh. Um, I was driving back. Sorry, I was laughing because I drove to LA for a meeting, and then the next. I rented a hotel to sleep and then had to drive back up. So I had all of my calls prepared, but it was an important meeting because I'm also potentially going to India, and I needed to figure out.

Speaker C: Yes, I'm dying to hear about that too.

Speaker A: Yes, that's super fun stuff. So I was like, okay, I'm going to. How do I. How would I make this work? I packed my food and my. And my. A cooler next to me, so I never had to stop. I only stopped for, like, gas only. That was it. Got back and made all my meetings, did all my stuff, had all my calls. And one of my goals specifically, which is so crazy, was this gal. Uh, she's working big for, uh, tax. You know, she works, uh, really busy. Fall and spring, she said, and then she takes the summers off. And I had an opportunity for her that was actually kind of gonna bring her back to, like, a pretty big role. And she's like, gosh, I would. And yet. Yet my lifestyle, I can't. And her and her husband bought, uh, a ranch, and she has 20 horses. And she, um. Racist.

Speaker C: We talked about this. You, connections and horses. We need to circle back on that after this call because totally, I love horses. I need more horses in my life. That's on my list.

Speaker A: Perfect. Come up. Well. And so Funny, you know, this is a new one.

Speaker B: This is just.

Speaker A: I just. I didn't know.

Speaker C: I know I'm saying we talked about the last. But something else. You talk about horses. I'm like, there's a lot of horses. Horses in your life or people with horses that we need to circumcise.

Speaker A: It's awesome. But so like the summers. And I just. I know. And I did this as well. But I loved that her career is. And someone. I can't remember what someone used a term, but it's uh, in. In seasons. I think they said, you know, career in seasons. But this is actual true seasons. Hers is in the spring and the fall. She works.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: The summer and the winter, it's different. And I thought, gosh, that's so nice. And I know what I did is, um, you know, in 2002, I think I have said this. I had. Well, I can't remember if I said I had 14 weeks vacation I had to take. Right now it's 16 weeks vacation. Um, or I was going to lose it. I took, uh, 12 weeks off the phone. So it's like three months I traveled and I still went top in the world that year. And I was like, huh, I don't have to. And that's. And that's not every career. Right. It depends on, you know, and some people do like to work, but it's also like really stepping back and the experiences in your life and getting that. And some people can get that in an afternoon or day or doing certain things. So it doesn't have to be the Camino or whatever. Although I totally walk it.

Speaker C: I can't wait.

Speaker A: Uh, I got to do that. But I just, uh, you know, I would with that challenge. When I had kids, I started working from home. So I was doing kind of COVID back in, you know, the 2004 to on I sort of. When I had my daughter. And then I started challenging like in Sweden. Uh, I'm Swedish, first generation here they all take a month in July off. And it was hard to find childcare in August. So they like, what if we took a month off in August and just spent with the kids, visit the family? And I started doing that. My production didn't change, it got better. So I was like, huh, okay. So I just started playing around with schedules. And I think it's so encouraging to see that it's ingrained in us that we work 8 to 5, we have no more summers. I remember that being a big wake up call after college. And you're like, wait, A minute I pay taxes and I don't have a summer anymore. What's going on? So sad. But that there's other ways of living, of working and recognizing. Also, I love that you said, you know, towards the end of your qualcomm, it was politics versus more of the other pieces that you liked and that you were able to still leave gracefully and, uh, have such a wonderful experience. And then your experiences, when you're talking, I just see, uh, how much joy and happiness and, and what a wonderful career and experiences. Um, you know, ah, being here and Singapore and then with your team and growing and pivoting, being able to walk the Camino. Um, and that just. I love that I'm going to be thinking about that. With every cell had a happy emoji

Speaker C: and your body, it was like, I'm telling you, I could go back to say it, actually, when I thought about it, I was like, that is actually. It is. It is perfect, right? Actually, really, Even when I say it, I go back to that feeling, because that was exactly it. Like, it's like all the billions of cells in our bodies were smiling. It was like. It just felt like I was. Yeah, it was, uh. Like I said, I felt almost guilty about saying that because I've had these amazing moments in my life. But there was something about this juncture and that time that it took to arrive at that place and the awareness maybe that I had that I didn't have in all those other times in my life. Like, I was just really, absolutely ready and, um, present for that moment.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: And I think it took that whole journey and all that distance to get there, to be ready for that, to receive that kind of epiphany, to feel that way.

Speaker A: And when you got back after that, so you. I don't know if you went to go see your mom first. And what did you do after you, you finished the Camino? How did that feel? And then what did you do after?

Speaker C: Yeah, well, they always say about the call of reentry back to Earth after the Camino, like, how do you take all that goodness and all that you come back and it's just back to life. Like you changed, but you're stepping back into a world that hasn't. So how do you take all of that with you? Or you don't want it to? Slowly a feeling that people don't have the feeling leaving them. I went to see mom first. We were celebrating her 80th birthday. She didn't know, but she, she really enjoyed the day. But, you know, wasn't really aware that it was her 80th birthday. So I, I went straight back from Santiago to, um, to Ireland and spent that week there. And I just. Everyone could see everyone comment and how different I looked, felt. I had this just aura of like. And I was always like, I'm always a high energy, positive person. But it was different. I felt it was different, you know.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Someone was like, you look. I'd lost a few pounds, which I didn't probably need to lose, but I just felt like I, uh, you know, I looked healthier, more vibrant. You know, I'd gone a month and a half with no makeup, no hair straightener, no. No anything. Right. So the beauty regime was out the window. But I. When you eliminate stress and you exercise every day, and I think walking now, I have a newfound respect for walking after that, you know that it is probably the greatest exercise for us. And then no stress and no responsibilities. And, um, my diet wasn't great. I mean, I was eating whatever I could eat on the Camino and a glass of wine and beer every night. But like, that was a. Enough to actually. It took the toll of stress and life out of my face. It made me just feel so much better. So everyone's noticed it and saw it. And when I got back to the States, I really wanted to, um, preserve that. And I thought, I'll just keep writing. I'll re. I'll rewrite my journal, kind of embellish it a little more and more details and stuff. And as I started writing, I was about a month into it, really enjoying that process, kind of, I think, kind of trying to extract more goodness and kind of continue to live it a little bit. And I had a friend come over and I read it to her one day and showing her mom's journal and she said, God, I, I think you have the bones of something here. Like, this would be such a beautiful story. Your path in parallel to your mom's story. Like, it's a, it's a coming of age, it's a transition story, it's a reinvention story. It's a, it's a lost story, it's a Alzheimer's story, it's a mother daughter love story. It's. And it was so many things and I thought, I can re. Enjoy, like even if it's just for me, even if I have no idea how to publish a book, but even if it's just for me and my daughter, she, it. It would be great to capture it and have a story that's bound in A book. It's all been a very organic grassroots effort. Not much thought put into it. And I. Which is kind of nice when you're

Speaker B: off for a year.

Speaker C: And. Yeah, I just, uh. It's gone from kind of strength to strength. Was really not planned out. Really not planned out. It's still not very flat out when it comes to the book. But it's just. There's been so much traction and, um, I think a lot of that is serendipity. One thing I'll say, I. This is actually, I thought, really interesting. I just did a post today about this because it made me rethink about how serendipitous this whole thing has been. When I was. I was a week before I was publishing the book and I couldn't think of a title for it, you know, and I. I was reading. I was looking at old videos and pictures on my phone. I always took videos when I was my. With my mom, you know, and I came across one video when I had put her. We'd taken her into the home and I had created this album of all of our fun travel trips together, you know, and I always did these albums for. Of our trips with a little inscription up front. And I read the inscription and the last line, the inscription was, you were the closest thing to Magic I'll ever know. And she, like, shrieked in delight. And when I saw that video that day, I was like, oh, my God, that's the title of the book. The closest thing to Magic. Then fast forward, you know, this past February when I'm home in Ireland and I'm reading her this book. You know, I'm reading it to her. I'm reading her her journal entry in there, and she's like listening intently for like an hour. And she's like transported back. She remembers the Camino. It's amazing. And I'm just feeling so happy with her. And I'm leaving 20 minutes later, which by then she normally would have forgotten anything we talked about. Like, 20 minutes is like a lifetime when you've Alzheimer's and you're advanced with it. And she turned to me when I was leaving and she goes, andy. She calls me Andy. She goes, andy, your book is magic. She goes, in fact, you should call it magic. Oh, my God. Like, here it was again, like, she gave me the name idea. Here she was again, reinforcing the name. Like, she. I did the walk because of her. I really wrote the book because of her. I am where I am, um, because of her. It all felt like it was in Some way preordained. And I just, um. I've had this sense of, like, I'm on the right path. All these kind of, like, moments, you know, even when you don't know what's next. I'm on the right path.

Speaker A: Right. Oh, that's so beautiful. What did your, um, daughter, uh, think?

Speaker C: Uh, my daughter was my first reader of it. She was my son. It took him. I'll be completely honest, I gave it him a Christmas present, wrapped. And, um, he said he'd read it, and he just finished it last month, so it took him three months to read it. He's 15.

Speaker A: You had a boy and a girl, because we've talked about that. He's 15.

Speaker C: So I try not to take it as a huge insult, but he really said he enjoyed it. He really enjoyed it. My daughter was phenomenally. You know, I've had so many people, like, people that my mom knew who didn't know her story, people that she met at the Camino, who I. I integrated their stories and asked them for memories of her that can include in the book in the final chapter. And they all wrote about how she had stories about her in the Camino, what she meant to them. And these were people who were 25 to, like, 65 to. From all over the world. And it was so beautiful to include their stories and, um, their perspectives of her. Because really, at the end of the day, to me, this book was about capturing her greatest adventure, sharing it with people, to inspire people to, first of all, understand that when they're going through Alzheimer's, it's okay to find joy alongside all the grief, you know, and that grief walks with you, but so does love. And love really knows the way. I think that's what it really, to me, that's what I learned from the Camino, and I think just inspiring people to take adventures. Mom. Like, I had one woman reach out to me and say, like, oh, I. I love the book. You know, I. Your mother was so brave at 68 to walk the Camino by herself. I haven't even gone away for a night myself. And I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it in honor of your mother, and I need to do it. Like, you forget when you're someone like you and I who's traveled, and there are people who are very nervous of that kind of thing, who haven't had adventures, who haven't had the luxury of time away, or the. Just haven't felt the confidence to take time away and be that her book Is like, God, she's 60. I need to do that. I need to. Like, how lovely is that? She would love that. She's inspiring people, you know.

Speaker A: Unbelievable. Yeah. And it's so funny you say that because I was talking with someone else and, uh, you know, like, you, I'll go anywhere. I mean, I went to Costa Rica for a month by myself in the jungle and I was like, ah, yeah, awesome. I go backpacking by myself if I needed to and not have a problem out there. But I, I was talking with someone last week and that, uh, was what she said. It was that it made her, you know, to even take a hike into the local hills. That, yeah, will get nervous about that and, um, inspire to be able to solo travel. But also you meet so many wonderful people.

Speaker C: Different. Like I love and you probably the same love, family, travel, friend travel. But there's something spectacular about solo travel. Like you, you meet yourself, you learn more about yourself, but you meet people that you would not have met with other people. Because when you're alone, you just attract other people. Right, right. Like when you're with someone that generally creates a wall. They're like, oh, she's with him right now. Or she's with them. I'm not going to interrupt them. But when you're alone, you're kind of inviting conversation and people into your life that wouldn't necessarily come into otherwise. So I think it's such an important part of our journey if you can take some time alone.

Speaker A: Exactly. I love it. Okay, so what are you doing now? You know, so you've got the book, and I know you're doing some, uh, some of, you know, doing some consulting and things. And so what are you up to now? You know, after this amazing experience, going back into kind of working, what do you think you'll be taking that's different?

Speaker C: Well, I, I've learned that, you know, I have a, a lot of energy and I actually am also this idea of being comfortable with doing multiple things. Like I am. I thrive on doing a lot of things. And before I used to kind of judge that a little bit thing, like, I got to stay focused one thing at a time. Time and be focused and just go all in. And I'm like, I don't get my energy out of that. I need to have multiple things. So now I'm doing multiple things and very happy about that. I got my book, which I'm continuing to promote. I've got my business. I just launched my website and there's two parts of my, uh, website it's called All West Consulting. The business, it's, you know, coming from the west coast of Ireland to the west coast of California. I fractional CMO type work, but also advisory work. So I'm doing advisory kind of pro bono work for women's startup tech entrepreneurial companies both in Ireland and the US Which I'm really enjoying. And then I'm also doing um. I just actually took a kind of a full time gig that I can't announce yet, but I'll be announcing in a couple weeks to still allow me to do my fractional kind of advisory work if I have the bandwidth. And then I'm um, I'm also. The nonprofit stuff is really important to me. So I'm doing. I'm stepping up my effort in the nonprofit world in the senior community work. I'm a chair of Elder Help San Diego, which is about keeping people in their homes as long as possible with dignity and independence. Um, I'm speaking. I just spoke this morning on Alzheimer's podcast and trying to raise awareness around, you know, the condition of Alzheimer's and not just helping people get through it, but also helping yourself get like having yourself get through it, but also how do you better care for people who are going through it. And, and you know, some of the things that I've learned just by being um, on this journey with my mom, you know, I think it's an overwhelming. It's an overwhelming time. It's a really horrible disease. It's different than a lot of other diseases in terms of um, the length of time that you're grieving, the waves of grief that you feel. And um. It's. Yeah, it's a, it's. You can't really prepare for it, you know. So I uh. All of these things and I still feel like I have room for more. I don't know what that is yet, but we'll. We'll see how that unfolds.

Speaker A: But we're talking about. I have some ideas depending.

Speaker C: Don't sign me up for anything until we talk. Sounds good.

Speaker A: I love it. I think it's so great. I am so excited by. I. I can't wait to share this because I feel like just. We're definitely kindred spirits. I'm so glad we got connected because

Speaker C: I definitely feel the things. People reaching out.

Speaker A: Yes, I know, exactly.

Speaker C: Stumbled on me that sea of LinkedIn people. I know.

Speaker A: Isn't it funny? I don't like. I. And thanks LinkedIn people or links. LinkedIn algorithm, I guess or something for knowing who I am and putting me in touch with people that, um.

Speaker C: Thank you, LinkedIn.

Speaker A: Yes, exactly. Because it. It does it. You just popped up and I was like, oh, I like. And so LinkedIn and messaged and I thought, oh, that. I don't know what it was specifically,

Speaker C: but you just reminded me of something really funny.

Speaker A: My mom.

Speaker C: Mom used to say when she got on Facebook and Alzheimer's didn't definitely started to. We didn't really realize at the time, but she was on Facebook and you know, at that generation didn't really understand how Facebook worked, you know, but she kept saying things like, people just keep popping up on my page. My mom, like, that's kind of how Facebook works. I don't want to see them. It just. It just pops up. It was like the news feed, you know, and she just didn't understand how that was working. Like it was an invasion of her privacy. But they would crack me up. Like they were just like, you know, popping up, like around so funny.

Speaker A: It really is. So thank you, LinkedIn and thank you so much for this time. I could talk another hour easily. And I want to respect your time. And I know I ran over a little bit from. From my good swims.

Speaker C: I'm glad you got your mild swim. I'll always be happy that you exercise in me to get back in the pool. That was my least favorite of mine, my triathlon legs. So I, uh, need to get back in the pool. I felt so good out coming out of the water. There's actually nothing better than coming out of the water. Like that feeling of energy that you have, and it really.

Speaker A: It's like every cell in your body is. Is a happy face. It's funny, right?

Speaker C: There you go. There you go. It's so true. I love that. Where did you hear that?

Speaker A: Right? Exactly. It does feel good after. So. Well, thank you so much for this. I can't wait to share it. And if someone wants to reach out to you and, um, I'm assuming I'll attach your LinkedIn.

Speaker C: My website page is up and running. They can reach out there? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker A: Perfect. Well, thank you again so much. I appreciate your time.

Speaker C: Have a great rest of your day.

Speaker A: Thank you. You too. Bye.

Speaker B: Thank you for listening to Curiosity with Kristen. If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe and leave us a review. You you can find me on LinkedIn @Kristenravelle. That's K R I S T E N R E V E L L

Speaker C: if m you'd like to be a

Speaker B: guest or have any questions for me, your feedback is essential and helps to improve the show. If you have any suggestions, comments or questions, feel free to email at Kristen thereavellegroup.com that's K R I S T N M at T-H-E R E V E L L G-R-O-U-P.com Little long, but it works.

Speaker A: Thank you so much.

Speaker B: Have a great day and stay curious.