77. Parul Saini, former CIO of Uber & Founder of AI Ally Works

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Curiosity with Kristen podcast. Here you'll hear real conversations with everyday people making a difference, living their purpose, being parents, trying their best, and sharing their knowledge of life experiences, both professionally and personally. You'll also hear from executives about their companies and what cool things they're doing, plus how they're navigating their companies and their people.

Speaker A: Forward.

Speaker B: Each episode is unique and covers wide ranging topics that give my guests an opportunity to share what they've learned, are learning, and continue to learn, of course, along with wisdom, hope, and some great stories too. I hope it gives you encouragement and strength to learn, grow and and be curious.

Speaker C: Today I'm joined by Parul Saini, a, uh, technology executive, entrepreneur and founder of AI aliworks. Parul's journey began in India, where her curiosity about life and purpose eventually led her into the world of technology. Along the way, she navigated gender bias, built a successful career at companies including Adobe, Splunk and Uber, and ultimately rose to become Uber cio. But Parol's story is much more than career success. In 2023, she faced one of the greatest challenges of her life that forced her to rethink priorities, resilience, and what success truly means. Today, she's helping business leaders understand and embrace AI while building a community focused on education, innovation and empowerment. Join us as we discuss courage, leadership, health, reinvention, and the power of staying curious through life's biggest challenges. Enjoy. So, welcome to Curiosity with Kristin. I have Parul signing. We got connected through a mutual friend, um, gosh, last year or so. And, um, just. I'm so excited about not only just when we met the AI things that you're doing for small businesses and just pushing that along. Welcome and I'm so excited to have you.

Speaker A: I'm excited to be here. Look forward to this conversation.

Speaker C: Absolutely. Okay, so we're going to step back. So you were at PwC, um, and Adobe. I mean, you've done a lot of different things. And then of course a big part was Splunk and Uber. Right. Uber was the other one where you did a lot of it. Transformation, all of that. Was that, uh, what, when you were a kid growing up, was that technology and that space, was that always something that you gravitated towards?

Speaker A: No, I was a very unfocused child. I was m. The one child who was very lazy. I didn't want to do much with my life. I had a very spiritual bent. You know, when I was young, I actually experimented with religion quite a bit, which is so unusual for a teenager. Now That I think about it. But I had the curiosity about life, not so much about technology. I always wanted to understand what makes people tick. Like, you know, why. What is our purpose as human beings? Why are we here? What type of impact should we be creating? What makes people become happy or sad? How can we create more fulfilled life? Those are things I used to ponder when I was a 13 year old, believe it or not.

Speaker C: Wow, that's impressive. I mean, those are really profound questions that people always should be thinking about. But to be at 13, was there something that happened in your life or.

Speaker A: I, I don't know. I had actually. It may become dark. But then when I was 4 years old or 5 years old, that's when I became very aware of death and nothing had happened. Uh, you know, my. Nobody had died in my, in my family by the time.

Speaker C: Or a dog or.

Speaker A: No, none of that, none of that had happened. I just started wondering what happens after we die? I don't know what the trigger was. And I kept thinking about that.

Speaker B: A.

Speaker A: And as I became older, I would read a lot and I would read about different lives, different stories, different people. People's stories always fascinated me. So I became this voracious reader. And being in India because it's so multicultural and religion is a big part and there is a lot of choices, right? Like there is all sorts of practices and you can choose what you want to believe in. And because my family was quite large, everyone had their own belief system, different types of practices that, that. So I had exposure to a lot of different types of practices. And my mom used to make so much fun of me because I was the person who would like, you know, get up in the morning and start praying. I don't know why, but you know, I would. And I had this. I would have very disciplined sort of being and she would make fun of me. She's like, I have no idea how you've become so spiritual. None of us are. Like all, uh, of my family, my parents and my brother, they don't really care. They don't practice spirituality. My brother is spiritual, but he was a Methodist. Like, where did you get this? I'm like, I have no idea. I'm just curious. So I would read all of these. Maybe my dad was. So he had a lot of books on spirituality, so I would read a lot. It started off me trying to understand death and then that became curiosity about life.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker C: That is so amazing. How did you end up in the IT area?

Speaker A: Isn't that funny? Um, so I.

Speaker C: But we all and who knew? I never thought I'd be a recruiter, and I've done it for 30 years. You know, you just. It's interesting how, uh, a chance meeting or something like that turns into a career.

Speaker A: I would say that's because I grew up in India. So our choices. And I was a good student. I was a very. Because I was so disciplined. I was very focused. I was a good performer. I scored really high marks in whatever I did. I wasn't very good with sports. I was not a sporty kid, but I was a very studious child. And our choices, if you are, uh, a good student, the choices are engineering or, uh, becoming a doctor. I did not like dissecting things, so, you know, that was out the window. And I, for one week took economics classes and I realized it was just too boring. And I missed physics. So then this was in 11th standard, and in India you choose your subject in 11 standards. So, you know, I took economics for one week and I'm like, yeah, not my thing. Miss physics and I miss math. Um, physics more than math, actually. So then I, uh, switched to science and I graduated the high school degree in science. And then my family was more engineers. I wouldn't say, like, there are different degrees in engineering as well. But my family, my dad's side, all were some type of engineer in their own right. So that became the path. And my dad was a very determined person and he actually found this college which was up and coming. And, um, because I had a certain percentage of marks when I graduated, uh, and they had this first batch they were putting together of women. It was a women's only college, which is actually one of the most prestigious ones in India right now. Not at the time. So I got into the first foundational batch of that college, all women, which I never, I never had an issue with that. I quite enjoyed it. Um, and that's how I got into an engineering college. Not because I was very focused, but because my dad was determined to create that path for me. So then I graduated. Then I had a proper engineering degree. I graduated when, uh, the dot com bubble had burst in us and there were no jobs to be found anywhere. Um, but when I was in school, it was on the up and up. So everyone was hopeful that we'll get good jobs after we graduate. And in India you have to have some really strong connections to get a job. So I was already at a disadvantage. My family wasn't rich, they were not very connected, and I was a woman. So, like, everything was working against me in terms of me getting a job. And I also started practicing Buddhism when I was 20 years old. When I graduated, a couple of years before I graduated, I found out about it. When I graduated, I started practice practicing Buddhism. And one of the key things I learned in that practice was no matter what you do, do your best and become indispensable at whatever you do. So I was the kind of person at work and it took me a while to build that discipline. But I continued to try to be the best that I could. No matter how trivial a job I do, I did it with the best effort, best intention, with the intention of learning and becoming better at it every day. So I, my first job was actually at a call center. So again, no job being too small or too big. At the time call centers were coming up in India. Uh, my first job was at a call center and I had a graveyard shift. And I quite like the voice and linguistics, the one month course they give us. That's my. And that came in handy when I moved to the US right at the time it was just fun hanging out with friends, friends learning how to do American accent. And then I started, uh, graveyard shift is where I was assigned. My shift used to start at 2am until 11am I did that for eight months. And I looked like a raccoon at the end of that because I had dark circles around my eyes. I had no social life. I used to sleep all day, work all night. And one day I just decided, I thought to myself, like, I feel like I'm better than this. No, no, no other, uh, frame of reference. It's not like I was a great performer and you know, I had multiple options. I just decided that I'm better than this. And then I decided to quit the job and just sit at home. I don't know where I had the courage to do that. Wasn't probably the smartest thing to do. But I am the kind of person I would just decide and I'll do it. So I did it. And it was hard. It was hard because I had no prospects. I didn't know what I wanted to do. All of my friends at the time at the call center were doing really well. It paid really well. And I was so lost. That year was like horrible. And I thought I wanted to do an mba. So then I was sitting at home and I was preparing for MBA entrance exams. So it's like kind of gmat, but then it's entrance exams you take that, they happen every year. So I prep for it. Uh, for one year I took the entrance exams. I got through some colleges, but not the top tier colleges. And in the one year that I was sitting at home, I only had one job opportunity that I was called to interview for. I show up to that interview. There were 200 people interviewing for two positions.

Speaker C: Oh, wow.

Speaker A: And. And they were doing an entrance test because I was preparing for MBA at the time. So my level of preparation was quite, quite good. So the, out of the 200 people, they selected two. They finalized two. I was one of the two people that selected. And guess what the job was.

Speaker C: What was the job?

Speaker A: It was help desk technician.

Speaker C: Oh my gosh. Wow. 200 people.

Speaker A: Mhm, mhm. So then I get the job offer and I take it back home. And my brother looked at it going, you'll be a help desk technician. Who wants to do that? You should not take this job, he tells me. I said, I have no other option. I've already been at home for a year. I have MBA sort of options, but I feel like I want to get back into work. Kind of like my situation now.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And then I took the job. It was horrible. It was horrible. But it taught me the importance of hard work. It was horrible because, I don't know, it was just weird being a woman in that environment because I remember crawling under the tables, crimping network cables, you know, cleaning trackball mouses. I like, you know, supporting the CEO when they're presenting and, you know, I will be in my silver Kamis and my heels and I'll have to like, figure out the ad stuff. Um, a lot of hard work.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I made some really important and interesting friends who helped me later on in the career. But it was a, it was a hard job. There's also not a lot of guidance for early sort of career people. But then that company had some, some good coaching programs. But my challenge was just being at the receiving end of a lot of sexism. It was odd. I cannot even share a lot of things, which probably I'll share about drinks one of these days. That was a bigger challenge than the work itself, which is like, how do you deal with some of the things that you wouldn't expect to come with? Professional environment.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So that's how I got into it. That was my first job in it. Uh, then a friend of mine, he left that company and joined Adobe. And at the time Adobe was building, um, out a new IT team and he put my resume forward. They interviewed me. I got through. In fact, at the time, the guy who was the hiring manager looked at my resume and looked at my friend going, you're giving me a girl's resume? I don't want to hire girls. They have to leave. Mhm. They have to leave at 6pm to be home, cook dinner, they take jobs, then they get married. They take time off for getting married and they have kids. They have to take time off for having kids. I don't want a girl in my.

Speaker C: Wow.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I was the girl who used to leave at 9pm every day and I was the girl like I, I, I got married so late in life, I still don't have kids. So I was that girl. But his perception was that. And then my, my, my friend, funny enough, escalated internally going, uh, to the, the person, the head of it there going, are you not hiring girls in it? Um, so it was a bit of a controversy. So that's how I got into Adobe. I mean, of course I did well, I was, you know, I did well on my entrance, um, tests and stuff and my interviews. Oh, the other thing, in my interview for Adobe, the HR person asked me what I wanted to be in five years. I'm, I'm a pretty ambitious, determined, very clear in my thought. Right. I said I want to be selling security solutions in five years. I loved security and I loved sales and I was a people person. So I thought that's what I wanted to do. Although I didn't end up doing it. Doing that.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, but that's what I wanted to do. I told the HR person that. And the HR person in the interview debrief, uh, was told the team, he or she, I forget, uh, they said, this person is too ambitious. I don't think we should hire her. I found out later a friend of mine, uh, told me about it and he dug his heels in going, we need ambitious people in this team. We need people who would be able to think beyond the obvious. Right, right. Anyway, so that's, that's how I got into Adobe.

Speaker B: Oh my goodness.

Speaker C: So what, what made you, how long were you at Adobe? For a while, a little while.

Speaker A: Six years. Then I moved to the U.S. that's a whole other story in itself.

Speaker C: I was going to ask just in a quick thing like what brought you from uh, India to the US that

Speaker A: that moved, the 32nd version was that I, because, you know, I'm the kind of person, I don't like to sit still. So there was an individual in the US he reached out to me, he said, I'm building out a team. Would you like to be part of it? And I said, sure. Uh, and he was actually just amazing mentor for me. I didn't have a life, so I used to work every evening, I used to work every weekend. And I enjoyed doing. I enjoyed patching servers. Like, I don't know what else to say, but I loved it. And my philosophy was to do the best you can do, never say no. If somebody asks you to do something at work, you figure it out, how my attitude was. And he loved that about me because I was the person he could come to at 9pm at night, and I would say, yes, I got it. You know, by the time you wake up, you'll have it, no problem. And I did. I did deliver on that. When a, uh, job wreck opened in the U.S. he's like, you should move over. And then he facilitated the entire thing. Of course, there was controversies associated with that because in it, nobody had moved to the US before that. I was the first person to have even received an offer like that. But then the conversation was, well, there are other men that are way more qualified, so why her? Why not these other people that are more senior, more qualified? It may or may not have been the right thing. I don't know. I was too young and too far removed from the dynamics of it. But I just knew that I was in the thick of a controversy that I did not create for myself. So then there was this one individual, um, who was visiting Adobe India at the time, and he pulled me aside from the U.S. a VP from the U.S. he pulled me aside and, um, he said, and I was almost ready to quit that day. I said, like, I've had enough. I'm just gonna go figure out something else again.

Speaker B: Huh?

Speaker A: I'm the kind of person, I think I like to just, you know, not take a, uh, lot of crap, you

Speaker C: know, yourself and, you know, the energy that you bring in, you know, like, if you're around people like that are like, energy that raises you up at your whoop will tell you you're. You're living. Living within your means or underneath, you're aging slower, right?

Speaker A: Yes, yes.

Speaker C: Um, there's the way.

Speaker A: Maybe I should start charging whoop for referrals, because I always talk about it. But anyway,

Speaker C: I think that that's great. You know, who you are, who you want to be with, and that you're not going to just take that.

Speaker A: Yes. And I'm pretty confident I have the confidence in myself to be able to make a decision that I can, that is dignified in its own right, and then I will figure it out. Kind of like the path that I'm on right now. Right, right. Prioritize myself. So, anyway, so that day, I was almost ready to quit. So I go to the office, and people tell me, this individual who's visiting from the United States wants to talk to me. I'm like, all right, this is it. We are gonna end it here, and I'm going to leave. And just that's that. So this individual pulls me aside, and he's like, parole. I know that you've been asked to move to the U.S. i want you to know that you have our hundred percent support, and we want you to move and be successful. And I'm like, that is so cool.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, he's still a very good mentor of mine. He's in San Francisco. He lives in San Francisco. That was a, ah, defining moment. And, you know, that instance in my life was very clear indication to me as to when I do become a leader, what type of leader do I want to become?

Speaker C: And I love what you were talking about. Just the type of leader who, you know, they always lead by example was what I was trained at, Robert. Half, um, when I was there for so many years. It's, you know, really important when you find those people, and then it just teaches you how you want to be and show up with the others that need you.

Speaker A: Yes, yes. And my big lesson was one interaction with another human being has the potential of changing an entire trajectory of their life, which is what happened with me, because I was gonna go home and then stay in India and probably do something else. May or may not have been the same output or result, but that one interaction, which was all of 15 minutes for him, changed the entire trajectory of my life because it reinforced the fact that, yes, I am able to make that choice for myself. So I. I think, uh, yeah. Then I got the offer letter. Maybe I signed it that week or something like that, but. But rather than asking, in India, it was very common for women to ask for permission. I have never been that woman.

Speaker C: I'm not surprised.

Speaker A: So I. I then signed the offer letter. Then I went to my parents and I said, two weeks. I am moving to US.

Speaker C: Oh, my goodness.

Speaker A: And, yeah. Ah, I had no idea what I was in for. And, um, you know, when I was talking to Declan, and he was so naive, he's like, you know, and you will have to adjust parole once you get to the US And I think my answer was something like, yeah, you know, it's nice. I'm excited. I like it. And he's like, yeah, but you've Just visited. When you live there, it will be different. Wasn't paying attention. Um, also, I'm the kind of person, I just don't see barriers. I see possibilities. I'm like, yeah, you know, I'll figure out. How hard can it be? I'll figure it out.

Speaker C: Right, exactly. I love that. Don't see barriers. You see, uh, possibilities. I'm writing that down. I like that.

Speaker A: So then, so then I moved and uh, I think my big, big issue at the time, everything else was fine. I had worked with the team that I was part of for a long time. My boss I had worked with for almost a year, maybe a over that. So I knew the people and I had a really great manager who helped me get acclimated and he would help me with everything. He told me about the culture, how to be, how to show up. You know, I was incredibly lucky to have him as my manager. And um, he was a very, very people oriented person. So we were, we were a pretty tight team from that perspective. And he created this, you know, environment of, um, collaboration and really like also a high bar for quality. So I was very fortunate. However, my health is always one of those things when my life accelerates. My health is kind of like a break that pulls itself. So when I moved to the US my health took a downward spiral because the environment was new, the food was very different. So I got very sick, very sick. And I had to manage that. And the doctors were new. I had left all of my support system behind. So then I had to manage my health, which was deteriorating on a daily basis basis while trying to prove myself at a job. But because my manager was such that he was very, very helpful, I could balance it out. And he would also help me figure these things out health wise. And then I started making friends. And because I was part of this Buddhist community, the community is national, international. So they were here as well. And they took such great care of me. These women will bring me food, they will take me shopping. And you know, I got connected with the community and that was like the rock or the foundation of life that I tell one of them is, um, an Asian lady and she is like my second mom because every holiday she would invite me home so that I'm not by myself. And then again she would feed me. I would take her daughter out Black Friday shopping. That became our thing. You know, it was fun. Uh, I actually had, uh, quite a lot of fun when I moved to the US because I was earning and I was independent and I didn't know how to drive, so I had to learn how to drive. I knew how to cook, but I didn't really do anything at home, so I had to figure out, like, how to wash clothes and how to clean and how to cook. But all of that was interesting new things I was learning. And being in the headquarters at Adobe was such a different vibe. Oh, and then this was my really big sort of cultural shock moment. In India, when you're sitting in a meeting, you are like, you're thinking about hierarchy and you don't. Nobody expects you to have an opinion. And here in the us, people ask you, what do you think? And I'm like, oh, my God, really?

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Can I think? Is it okay to think?

Speaker C: Oh, wow.

Speaker A: And, you know, I don't have dearth of opinions. And then that was actually pretty cool. So I really appreciated all of my colleagues that I learned so much from, uh, in the headquarters at Adobe. So that was a great, great time.

Speaker C: No, I. I love pivots and stories and, like, what you think you're gonna do is maybe not necessarily what you end up doing, but you find what is true to who you are. Right. You kind of navigate along it. And I think everyone wishes it's just like, here's what you want and you just kind of shoot, uh, you know, just shoot that way and you don't have to. You're fulfilled and everything's great, you know, but that's not life. It's always pivots and changes and you do one thing and then maybe you switch to something else or it evolves into something, you know. So I, I really do appreciate that story. And then. So what made you leave Adobe to go to Uber?

Speaker A: Uh, PwC. So.

Speaker C: Oh, sorry. PwC.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. So then when I was here and that's. It felt like the opportunities were boundless. However, because I was on H1B, it was hard for me to switch as I wanted to. But when I was at Adobe, we were doing a pretty big project where we were building like, uh, a virtual cloud within it. This is before AWS was a thing. I was one of the primary architects of that, and I was primary engineer as well. And that was a lot of responsibility for a young engineer. But I did what I did and it worked out well. PwC was on the ground program managing that entire project, which was, uh, quite cutting edge from all, um, perspectives. And they. There was this one partner who pursued me for 12 months for. For me to join his team at PwC. Because after 12 months, I was, I thought I will finally do it. I actually went to my um, boss's boss's boss at Adobe because again, I didn't see that. I just scheduled a one on one with her. And you know, I was the kind of person who would go to her and be like, what can we do better, Paulette? And she's like, oh my God, Parul, you're the only person that has asked me, what can we do better? Everyone else has opinions and they're telling me how to do things differently. I'm like, no, you know, I just really wanted to improve whatever we are doing so she was somebody I could reach out to. So then I went to her, I said, paulette, I think I want to do this, which is move into consulting. And she's like, why would you want to do that? And I said, I feel like I had this gap in my experience where as an engineer I'm really good at some things, but I'm really bad at dealing with ambiguity. For me, you have to give me requirements as precise as possible for me to design around that. And as I was doing this project, I realized that I'm not able to think about it myself. Right. And I was very frustrated as an engineer. I'm like, why can't you guys tell me exactly what you want so I can build it, you know? And that's to your point. That's not how life works. And I said, paulette, um, I'm realizing that this is a big gap. And I would see These people from PwC, some of them were really brilliant and they would just manage all of this chaos. I'm like, oh my God, that's amazing. I want to learn that skill. And she goes, okay, that's what you want to do. I will approve it. Because, you know, I didn't need her approval. She said, I will support you. Just make sure that you're making the right choice and then you make the best of it. I said, okay. And then, you know, we are still in touch as well. Um, So I joined PwC and man, oh man, was that a, ah, humbling experience. Um, because, you know, I was working as an, as a very opinionated engineer at the time, uh, at uh, one of the best tech companies in the world. And you know, the how you show up as an engineer in a tech company is very different than how you show up as a consultant working with clients.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Um, and I was still trying to bridge the gap between dealing with ambiguity, understanding gray areas. My world was very black and white.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: So as good of an engineer As I was, I was not the best with communication. And I did not know how to keep things to myself and think internally, not externally upset people.

Speaker C: Um, good skill to learn, though. Very good skill to learn. Right.

Speaker A: I have a lot of battle scars. Um, and, you know, I had, I had some really good influence at PWC as well. There was this one partner who looked at me who kind of understood my plight, um, and, you know, pulled me aside one evening on a Friday evening at 4:00'. Clock, and then we spoke for three hours. And he was a. He was a physicist by education. Again, like, really good friend of mine, mentor of mine. We are still in touch. And I remember, um, and I was like, ari, I just cannot understand this. What is this? Like, it's all great, right? Like you're selling an saw, it has to be precise. And he was, that's not how it works. And then he told me how to navigate the gray in the world of consulting. Was struggling for months before we had that conversation. And after that, it clicked. And then I sought partners that I felt that I could learn from. And there was this one individual, I think he was brilliant, but not everyone understood his brilliance. And I would find opportunities to just go do projects with him because I felt that I could learn the best from him. And I would learn by observing some really strong partners. And, you know, in consulting, it's a very, very hard, um, environment. And some partners. You know, I still remember I was sitting in a room and this partner was supposed to. Or, um, we said, was he a director at the time? Maybe he was a partner. This was a new client. He came in, didn't know the client, got on a call, and it felt like he and the client were best friends, um, in the way he ended the call, kind of getting what he wanted out of it. I couldn't do that at the time. And I looked at him in amazement, going, that is so cool. But now I can do it. At the time, I could not. It was just learning by immersion in consulting. So that's what I did for a while. And, um, after really struggling for a few years, I did get promoted. Uh, my clients loved me. Some of them offered jobs, offered me jobs. And. But it was still like, my health creates, uh, uh, a breaking point for me. So my health was just going off apprails again. I was like, okay, I'm done dealing with the type of stress that I'm dealing with. And then I chose to do something else. And then I interviewed a few things, and I had like seven job offers at the time when I decided to switch in that time period, this was in 2015. So I picked the one that gave me an opportunity to work in the product and engineering team. Mhm. Leading really complex engineering project and an element of product development and product management at zora. And you know, my boss was fantastic. And I really. I always take opportunities to work with people. Not so much the job and all that should be interesting, but can I work with someone that I respect and I can learn from? And will that environment challenge me is what I look for? So I really liked my boss at zora. Uh, she was amazing. And she had been in that role, like, had done that for a long time, and I felt that she was amazing and I could learn a lot from her. And I did. ZORA was fantastic. And I was doing this combination of product management, program management and everything. You know, it was a startup, so you do everything right. And because it was a startup and I could do everything, I loved it. So I just would every time people be like, does anyone want to do this? I'm like, I will do it. Does anyone want to do? I'm like, I will do it.

Speaker C: Was ZORA one of their clients and then they recruited you over?

Speaker A: No, it was just I started interviewing and I didn't know again, what I wanted to do. I wanted to come back into tech. That's all I knew.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So then I, you know, I interviewed for customer success roles, solutions engineer's role, sales engineer's role. For this role that I had at zora, Uh, I interviewed at other consulting roles. And, you know, I was getting, uh, a higher sort of level at other, other firms and some other roles. But I had like seven job offers at the end of it that I could choose from. Oh, wow. And I chose ZORA at the time because of the people. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so that's how I ended up at zora.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And how come you left zora and that's when you was that splunk? Is that what you went to?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, well, it sounds like just a great additional, like a promotion, right. From product program manager to I.T.

Speaker A: leader. Um, yes. So that is a story in itself. So after few years at zora, it went to ipo. Then I was like, okay, you know, I'm kind of hitting a wall in terms of how much new stuff I can do here. It was interesting and I love the people. And, um, I was at an interview for another similar role at a different company, just larger. And this individual who interviewing me said, you would make a great chief of staff. I, at the time, I hadn't heard of it or hadn't thought of it. I had heard of it, but I hadn't thought of being a chief of staff. And I thought it was just a glorified executive admin role. So I did not want to be a chief of staff, but then I was. And I'm the kind of person, I always pay attention to what people tell me. I may or may not take their advice, but I always consider it.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: So I considered the advice, and I was like, if I ever become a chief of staff, I would become the chief of staff for Declan. Declan was the person at the beginning of my story, the person from the US who was visiting India and pulled me aside and said, you should move, and we want you to be successful and move to the U.S. right? So I was like, if I ever want to work as, ah, a chief of staff, it has to be declared, so. And I knew Declan was the CIO at Splunk at the time. So I pulled into the parking lot, and I remember this vividly. I pulled into the parking lot before I went into the office at Zorro, and I said, let me see what Declan has open for him. And what would you know? Declan had a chief of staff role open. Uh. Oh, do I type? I texted him. I said, declan, you have a chief of staff role open. I'd like to. If you'd have me, I'd like to interview for it. He goes, Are you sure? I said, yeah, absolutely, 100%. And I prepared for that interview like I had never prepared for anything.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: I spent weeks getting ready weeks. And just so much, so much. I had every scenario, every data point, everything. And it was a hard interview. I think it was like, 12 rounds or something.

Speaker B: Oh, wow.

Speaker A: Um, so then I became Declan's chief of staff, and Splunk was going through a pretty big transformation at the time, and they needed a leader to lean in and take over some of the transformation. So that's how I became an IT leader.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker C: What a great story. So you were chief of staff, and then you moved into the IT leadership,

Speaker A: and the reports still to his in, huh? In few months after joining as the Chief of staff. Yeah.

Speaker B: Oh, wow.

Speaker C: Oh, that's such a great story. And then. So what made you leave that to go to? Uh, and then a totally different. With Uber. That's different. Sure.

Speaker A: So, uh, at Splunk, I had a fantastic time. My. The team that I built was amazing, and I built the team that I would want to work for.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I had some really good influence in my life in terms of leaders. So I had a fantastic team. And one day a recruiter reached out to me for a CIO role and I talked to him and he said, do you have any business applications experience? Because my background so far was infrastructure. And I said no. And he said, parul, if you ever wanted to be a cio, you should get business applications experience. And at the time, Uber had reached out to me for a, uh, business applications role in it and I had said no. Yeah, like I love the product, but I just didn't really consider joining that role seriously. And that seemed like a sign. And if anything in my life I have learned is not to use my brain to the extent that I'm trying to question everything that happens, I kind of follow the path a little bit. And I didn't realize that getting into Uber is hard. There were people who told me later on that they had interviewed, they didn't get in. Mhm. And I was like, really? For me, it was super easy.

Speaker C: Yeah. And they're a tougher company.

Speaker A: Um, yeah. Yeah. And that's another thing people would tell me, oh, it's a hard environment. I'm like, really?

Speaker C: Right. That's.

Speaker A: I have a lot of fun. I don't know where. I don't know where the politics is. I just do what I want to do. I just have fun. So I took the guy's advice and I joined Uber and it was.

Speaker B: Well, I want to stop you for

Speaker C: just a second because I just want to point out for how awesome it is to not listen to the brain sometimes, but actually the body and what the, what brings you energy or what you feel. Because that gut instinct can be sometimes confusing. Right. Um, and for people who are in it, and we're always in something related to that, I think that that's just. I wanted to point that out because that's awesome.

Speaker A: Yes. And it's also having the humility to listen to somebody else's advice, consider it and take action on it. I think oftentimes, especially people who are very intelligent and then they use their brains to do a lot of analysis and take a decision, often ignore other people's advice. In my case, I always pay attention to advice. I evaluate it, and then I choose whether I take action or not. Um, and that has served me well. So then I joined, ended up joining Uber and it was a pretty interesting company, very fast moving. And, um, I was amazed at the quality of talent that we had there and just the opportunity. So it turns out like, then I was running business applications for one of the biggest companies in the world right when I left.

Speaker C: Ruin yourself right in the fire.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, totally. And it wasn't hard because is, you know, the foundations and fundamentals of doing anything are the same. As long as you approach it with curiosity, um, and you keep an open mind and you have the humility to learn and also like the desire to learn, you can pretty much do anything. So, um, I was at Uber for about roughly five years after that. And in 2023, when the CIO left, I then took over her role. And then I was running it for all of Uber for about roughly three years. However, the interesting thing is that when I got the biggest break of my life and I was thinking to myself in May of 2023, that I finally made it, you know, I was running it for Uber. I finally made it. I thought to myself, I will be able to now take my career in a direction that I wanted for a long time. And where I started my journey in 2002 in India has come to fruition. And finally I'm on the right track. Right after making my decision. Turns out, June of 2023, exactly one and a half months into my taking on that role, I was diagnosed with cancer. Cancer. And I still remember that moment very clearly. It was around 3:45pm on a Tuesday. I was in the thick of meetings. And, you know, I had, uh. I was on high risk screening for cancer because it runs in my family, but. And I would do a lot of MRIs and scans, but I didn't think much of it. And I had done one. I was delayed because I was. I was so busy at work. I was delayed. I got an mri. People were. My doctors were really concerned. They had me do a biopsy. I didn't really think much of it. I came back to work and I was just really busy. Like, I didn't have time to deal with health. It was really busy. 3:45, the doctor calls me and here are escalations on the zoom call. I put them on mute. I take the call and the doctor says, we looked at the results and I'm sorry to inform you, you have cancer. I'm like, okay, thank you. And then I hung up the call and I went back to the zoom call because is, you know, escalations and whatnot. And I didn't really think much of it. So then I texted my husband. I'm like, hey, I. I have cancer. Then. Now. Then the entire world came crashing. Not on me, not on me. Mind You. I'm like, what an inconvenience. Now I have to deal with this while I just want to do my job. So the way the months played out after that was I was working 12 hours a day. My husband on the other other side was completely freaking out and he's very, very research, um, oriented. So that guy is doing all the research on what type of cancer, what has been diagnosed, the stage, the size. I'm not even paying attention. I'm like, you know what, I'll just go to the doctor, we'll figure it out. And he's reading all, he ordered a bunch of books and he's reading all sorts of things. And it, to me, it hasn't registered still because again, remember, I'm, um, very busy. Right. Yes, right there.

Speaker C: Very good distraction.

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, but you know, that wasn't the smartest thing in the moment. I would tell people that you should at least take ownership of your care, if anything, because cancer is a very complicated disease. When I started paying attention, I realized it. Although, like I wasn't scared or anything like that. So then I'm like, oh, I'll have to go tell people at work. So I did tell people at work. And then, um, the most confusing thing was and I handled it just fine. I don't think I was stressed, um, while I was going through it even today, it wasn't a big deal. I handled it physically. It was a lot of effort going and finding the right hospitals care, finding the best oncologist. But you know, we're both engineers, so I always have a runbook. You make a runbook, you check off the task, we'll find the doctors. I made decisions on which oncologist I like. Thankfully the, you know, the healthcare is fantastic or was fantastic at Uber, so we were able to find the right care. The challenge came when the doctor sometimes cannot really explain to you the trade offs of the choices that you will make. And the hardest thing for me at the time was to set expectations at work for my bosses because I just got promoted, I was put into the position. So I want to do right by the company as well, as much as I wanted to do right by me, because that's how I would expect professionally somebody else to show up for me. So I'm trying to set the right expectation. And the doctors keep changing the uh, planned for me. Like I was never supposed to have chemo, then I was supposed to have chemo. I was only supposed to have surgery. And they kept changing the plan. And then thankfully my boss was very Understanding. And he supported me through everything. And, you know, HR and every. Every. Everyone else was very, very supportive, and so was my team. So then I started chemo. I had four rounds of chemo. My cancer was very early stages, so they caught it before it was spread. So from all, um, for all intents and purposes, the bad, best, uh, outcome that I could have asked for at the time, not the cluster of things that happened after that, at the time, the best outcome, right? It was. Okay. I would. I wouldn't say that it was the. The toughest thing in the world because my oncologist was the best in the US And I am a very good student. I will study, I will research.

Speaker C: Whatever I will tell you to do, right?

Speaker A: I will. I. I will listen to you. And then I will do my own research. Then I will have checklists, and I will have run books. And, you know, I don't have time to get emotional about any of this stuff. So I went through it like it was a walk in the park. I kid you not. Chemo is hard in the body. But, you know, I didn't really dwell on it very much, so I had, um. It hurt. It impacts everything. So, of course, I lost my hair. There is a lot of water retention in your body, so I'm, like, swollen. I gained, like, 10 pounds. I had lost all of my eyelashes and my eyebrows. And then it causes swelling on your eyelids. And then you kind of get, um, just, you know, your eyelids are very swollen and puffy, so you just look weird. And then you get really, really, really dry eyes because your body's, you know, every time you're taking chemo, you. You're basically dying. And then they're rebooting you again, essentially, right? So. And then the third day from chemo, because that's when you're basically dead. And then they reboot you. They give you a dose of white, uh, blood cells so that your immune system can then rebuild itself. Third day. Um, third day is the hard, hardest, because then nothing works. Like, I used to be in a position where I would sit and I would just stare at a. And wall. Just at the wall. Because I could not have a conversation. I couldn't think. There were no words that would come out. I couldn't even watch TV because I didn't understand what was happening m. What was going on on the screen. Because the only thing I could do was sit and stare at the wall. That is it. I could not listen to music. I could not watch tv. Forget about reading. I would just stare at the Wall. And that was the day my husband will get the most freaked out because is, I'm basically, I'm living, but I'm basically dead. And then the next day I will start, um, be getting alive again or coming back to life again. Um, so. But even in that state, I didn't have time to deal with whatever was happening because I was so busy. I was on a mission to do the ride by my team, do the right by Uber, and then do the best I can for my entire organization. And I felt a lot of responsibility for my team. So, you know, I would sign up to do whatever is needed. I remember my fourth round of chemo. I had like all the worst things you can possible in the way I looked. And I was working from home at the time because my immune system was extremely, extremely, um, fragile. And then my fourth round of chemo, I third day from my uh, from my chemo fourth round. Remember the third day is when you're basically dead. I am on a call presenting to Dara in his. You know, we have something called Monthly Tech Day presenting at Monthly Tech Day. So the only thing I could manage to do and I wanted to kick it off for my team because again, I signed up for that topic and I wanted to show up for them. My team was going to handle it, but I had to do the kickoff. So I could only say six sentences and I wrote it on a piece of paper. I turned my camera on, I kicked off the topic, I read what was written, I turned my, I handed it off to my team, I turned my camera off. And then I don't know what happened, right, because this is the third day, I'm basically in debt. And then, and then in the room, because I'm remote and I'm on zoom, there is this big monitor and it's just when I'm speaking, it's just my face on that monitor, right? And the slides on the next monitor. And it's a giant monitor. So people in the room like were shocked at the way I looked. They told me later, they were like, oh my God, we thought something was really wrong. I said, yes, there was something really wrong with me, right?

Speaker C: Oh my goodness.

Speaker A: I laugh at it, but you know, that's how I went through chemo. And I think it was a good thing because by forcing myself to work in that manner, I was forcing my brain to develop the neurons connections, right? The neural connections, if you will. Otherwise, if you don't use your brain because those connections are also impacted, takes a long time to build them again. So in a way, my capability of being able to use my brain, even today, I forget. Sometimes I just forget sentences and words and wouldn't come back. But it's much, much less than what I've seen others go through, because then I was forcing myself to work through the entire time. And m. Then I thought that was behind me. After the end of 2023, my God. Then I had the big surgery, and then I was in and out of hospital for about three months. Like, the moment I would think, fine, this is behind me, and I can go live my life. Bam. Something would happen, and I would be hospitalized again. Uh, again and again and again and again. Like, there were times where I was like, I have a meeting with CFO scheduled, and my doctor is like, we need to admit you right now. So I'm like, this is no. Or. Or I had scheduled this big off site with my team. Like, and now I'm back, and I have, like, people visiting from India while this CFO meeting. And then my doctor is like, you need to be in the hospital. I'm like, I am so mad because I cannot start my life again. And that continued to happen. Happen all of 2024. And I got exhausted at the beginning of 2025. And then there was a lot of side effects from the, you know, cancer prevention drugs that they gave me. I had stopped sleeping. Like, there was a point where for three months, I just didn't sleep. I was sleeping four hours every four days. That's it.

Speaker C: Oh. Oh, my gosh.

Speaker A: Yes. Yes.

Speaker C: From the medicine.

Speaker A: It was. Yeah. Because what they do is they give you medications that suppress estrogen and progesterone in your body.

Speaker B: Uh-huh.

Speaker A: Uh, especially, like, as a younger person, that makes you, um, insomniac. Like, they. That it just wreaks havoc on your body. So when it's.

Speaker C: When it's, um, blocked out.

Speaker A: Yes. Because. Because mine was hormone positive cancer, so they had to block out all the, uh, hormones, and they. And they share it like it's not a big deal, but your entire life is disrupted by that, and nobody can see because, you know, when you're sick and you're in the hospital, at least people empathize with the fact that you have cancer. After that, they're expecting you to be back to normal. I was, like, severely depressed all of 2024, and they kept trying to give me antidepressants, which, you know, I just. I didn't. I was like, just stop it. I don't want more medication. I want this to stop.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Because I. It was just so difficult for me to do my job because I would have to. I'd be fine, and I'll go sign up to present. It was my job to present because I was running a pretty large team. I would go get ready to present, and then right before I have to go up, I would feel like I'm gonna burst out crying. And I could not even today. Like, there are times where I just start crying without any reason. I'm not, like, depressed or anything.

Speaker C: No, it's not human emotions. All of the emotions are okay, and you have to feel them. You can't ignore them, or they then turn into something.

Speaker A: But that was not how I was. Like, I'm not a person who would feel that. Right. The medication would make me feel that. And I just. I kept fighting it and fighting. I'm pretty good at suppressing, you know, issues, and I'm a pretty happy person. Just could not live with it. The doctors were not very helpful because they feel that once they've fixed your cancer, the rest is your problem. We'll give you sleep medication. We'll give you antidepressants. Good luck with it. If, um, this doesn't work, we'll give you another. No, guys. You have completely disrupted my life. And the thing that matters to me, which is my career, like, nobody's working with me and helping me figure this out, which is what continued to happen for a year and a half. And then I had to go through another big surgery. And this time, my hormones were gonna be gone for good. So this time, I'm like, I just have to do this research myself. I took a month off, and I went to. This was in March of 2025. Um, well, at the time, I had stopped sleeping, so I had severe insomnia and, of course, severe depression. But depression I could control. Insomnia I couldn't control.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: So I would sleep, like, four hours every four days. And I was barely holding it together. Oh. Um.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And then I took the time off, and I went to about 20 doctors within, like, two, three weeks to figure out what are my options after my surgery. Because the big hospitals, they don't take responsibility. So I did find something. Supplements. I did a lot of research. What will I do? What will I not do? What type of lifestyle do I need to have? Um, I also got a whoop. Love the whoop. They don't pay me for this, but data is your best friend when it comes to looking at how certain things. Food, sleep, is impacting you. Seeing that in real life Changing your habits. So that's what happened. March of 2025 onwards, I tried to go back to work and I realized I was. Oh. At the time I also got a really, really nice job offer for a full fledged CIO role, reporting to the CEO. And I was. Oh my God, Crystal, I have to tell you this. And I loved the company. They made me an offer the day before the surgery. The day before the surgery when my entire life was going to be turned upside down. Um, I didn't share a whole lot of details with them. And the next day I said, I'm going in for surgery tomorrow, so I'll be in touch. And I was ready to say no. But remember, my surgery was small in impact, in like the duration and severity, but big in impact. So the next day, because now I have zero hormones immediately over life, my brain isn't working. I'm not again in a state where I'm not processing information right. And I'm talking to the CEO of a, uh, public company and trying to respond to the offer that he has made. And I am not able to do that. So I was so exhausted. And the way the doctors describe it, like after you go through the surgery, you feel like you've been hit by a truck and then, um, the truck just kind of keeps going over you after a while. And anyway, so I got tired, I got exhausted. I just felt a lot of pressure. There were things that I was trying to do. So eventually I said no mhm to that role. And then I went back to my job at Uber. And then I just realized that the stress, like I just wasn't hundred percent. And at the time I realized I'm done compromising and I need to put my health first. Right. There was nothing else my body could have done at the time to scream any louder than it was screaming at the time.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: So I had, I did what I never wanted to do. So remember, like, I was fighting so hard for two and a half years to put my career first. And then eventually the hardest decision of my life was to put my health first and my life first. And then I realized I need to kind of, you know, try to stay alive for the rest of the years of my life. So that's, that's my story. And then when I was taking time off, um, in the June, and it was, it was nice for the first time after I made that decision, for the first time in a long time, I could sleep, I could breathe. And I felt it took me a long time still to get back to a Place where I could just feel connected in my body. M Because before that it was like one thing after another. You're going through a checklist, you're doing one thing and then you're moving to the next thing. And I felt that I could just be, um. And it's good and bad because I'm not the kind of person who likes to just be just like you. Right. Like you have to do, continue to do something. So in that balance that I was trying to maintain, I started the podcast that I started, which is the courage curve and telling stories of women that have gone like everyday women. We all go through such amazing life journeys and we have incredible strength and we show up with that strength every day. And I wanted to tell those stories. So I launched that podcast, um, and then I wanted to give back to the community. I realized that early on in my enterprise corporate career that AI is going to change the world in a way. Big technology transformations have changed it before. However, the vulnerable are, uh, extremely vulnerable right now. And there isn't enough resources for the backbone of our society, which is the small, small businesses especially. There isn't enough resources to help them because the resources that exist are coming from the vendors. And they're very well intentioned. But they're also, they have a tunnel vision, their interest in having the small businesses use their product so they can make revenue. Nobody's trying to give back to this, to community and society. If they did, they would be selling their software for free. But that isn't happening. They're giving you trainings for free so you can use their products. Right. So then I was thinking to myself, how do I help this community? And I went through various different variations of how I will do it, leading to this idea where I called my company the AI Ally Works, which is we are your ally in helping you understand how AI works for you. M. Uh, that is the goal. So what I'm trying to do here is not sell any software products or do implementations for small business owners, but really work with people such as yourself. And teaching you how to fish and making sure that you feel confident in your abilities to leverage this technology in the best possible way for you, you make that choice. You don't depend on any other technologist to make that choice for you. You feel confident enough that you can run with it yourself and frameworks and how to make those decisions. That's kind of what I'm working on and of course building a community around it because it's evolving so fast that you have to stay up to date. But you also need a community of people that are in the same situation as you and, uh, learn from each other at the same time, bringing the subject matter experts from the enterprise world so we can bridge the gap between these two worlds that exist in the area. So that's what I'm up to.

Speaker C: That's amazing. I mean, wow. Thank you so much for sharing such an amazing and heartfelt hard journey that you've had to go through. Um, and isn't it interesting when our body talks so loud to us? I should introduce you. I'm going to actually write this, uh, another person that I've, um, interviewed, and she was at Apple and uh, her name's Lamya. Um, but she got physically very sick as well. And um, she was, I think a young partner in, in France Paris of some fund or something like that and, and got really sick and had to step back. But it's just interesting when our bodies. And it's sometimes like our bodies need time to heal and they can then, you know, maybe they don't come back 100% or maybe they do. And that is, you know, but you just have to. It's hard to stop. I think I also, growing up, the, uh, only time I would stop is if I got sick and then I had to physically stop. And then listening to your body, it's a hard thing, but how amazing to take that. And, um, you know, things happen for a reason and there's a reason you're on your journey and, and even when something doesn't make sense, and especially hard, really hard when you get to that point where you're like, I made it. I'm exactly where I want to be, like. And you're like, body, come on, get with the program. We're where we need to be. Like, why don't you understand that? And it's telling you, like, no, you're not on the right program. I'm going to tell you where you're going. And it's like, wait, no, it's like that. You know, I've had that too before. It's like, shoot. You know, it's funny because, uh, it may, and most likely will have an even bigger impact than if you were the head of IT at Uber, right? Which, um, you know, that. And it's evolving so much, um, you know, to where it's going. So, uh. And I mean, this past weekend I was, you know, on boats all weekend, which, you know, and, um, all the people that came on the boat, which were incredible, they were all one guy was He's a, um, has a marketing technology company that helps, um, on the back end. And so he has all these AI agents. He has a Mac Mini with another Mac. And he's sharing and, like, he videoed and some stuff that night and was sharing like, get this and do this. And then that was Saturday. And then Sunday, I had this gal from Meta and then a top IT guy from another one. And. And so we were talking about all the AI and the technology, and she has agents working and what they're doing behind the scenes, it's just like, oh, my gosh, it's just so explosive, I guess, is what I'd say in terms of what's possible. Um, but from my standpoint, and for a lot of us that are not techie, it's that fear. I was telling my friend on Saturday, like, gosh, I have a little bit of fear, but I'm all in. I want to do this. But there's fear of security and making sure it doesn't act access, um, because of, like, what you did on last, uh, week at your amazing AI Alley, the event, uh, at the amazing country club in Oakland. That was incredible. It was so beautiful. I was like, I can't believe I'm here. This is like a vacation and I get to learn at the same time.

Speaker A: That is exactly you, you. That's what I said. Right? My entire life is about the vibe. That is exactly the vibe that I wanted to create where people feel like they're on vacation, but then we are learning at the same time with friends.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: And then we party.

Speaker C: Yes. And I'm so bummed I couldn't stay longer, but at least I got to stay for a little bit. And I was like, shoot.

Speaker A: We've already started planning the September Summit, by the way, so now I just have to top the venue. Well, I'm glad that you all like the venue. Um, so now we'll just have to. Cecil has some really interesting ideas and, you know, we'll do something in the, uh, um, wine country.

Speaker C: Oh, I'll just share. For anyone, please look up AI Alley Works and the events, because it truly was like a retreat. Um, I was looking around and how thoughtfully you guys curated it with the fireside chats with the three people. And they were all amazing speakers from big companies and just. They're there. And then you had small companies too. And then having the conversation around the table to help brainstorm. When Pam I saw, um, was talking about, like, around her table and having her friend who's this nurse for high Net worth people. And then the phlebotomist, that's a travel. And then she needed one. So they connected that way. But then they're talking about security and then the guy across the table, on their same table had the security piece and it's like voila.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker C: Like it was just. And even at our table there was a gentleman that did, you know, this one thing. And then I, I was like, ooh, you need to do this, this and this. And I'm like, wait, I could do that for my business. I didn't even think of that. So it was just really, the conversations were really rich, the speakers were amazing. And yes, it felt like it was on a vacation and it was really amazing. So thank you so much. I've gone to a lot of events and yours really was up at the top.

Speaker A: I would say I am thankful and appreciated for you joining second for your feedback because, because I have a very, very high bar for how I spend my time and I do not want somebody to come to anything that I do. Whether it is a five hour event or a 45 minute conversation with me. I want you all to walk away thinking that was the best time that you spent. Mhm. And I knew we put a lot of thought into small, small details if you notice.

Speaker C: Oh yes.

Speaker A: Including the napkin color to everything else.

Speaker C: Oh, that's so great. I didn't know that. I loved, um, well, the food also and the desserts and just all the appetizers, all the drinks, everything, you guys, that, I mean it was a really healthy, yummy lunch buffet. And then the, the um, snacks and the desserts. I mean it was incredible. Um, and it was so cute. Even the, the notebook with the pen and the pins were nice. I was like, oh, this is really nice. But I loved how he was like, take the sticker, peel it off. And we're, we're sticking together.

Speaker A: Yes. AI allies stick together.

Speaker C: I thought that was really cute. I was like, uh, but just, you guys both are such genuine, wonderful, helpful, amazing people that are just fun to be around too. So it just kind of is a, it's a double whammy in a great way.

Speaker A: Thank you. Um, a teaser for the next summit, my next summit, I'm going to bring tech companies, CEOs to come and talk to you guys about how they built their business model around AI, like the AI companies. So you know, that would be a good sort of next step to expose you all to just how to think about the business model and what's changing in the world. You couldn't get it faster than the people that are doing it in the Valley itself. So that's a great way of learning and I think I need to figure out how to solve this gap between sort of theory and implementation. So there are various different ways where we can do implementation and I'm still vetting which way to go as in, you know, I'm not going to do all of them but like who do I know that can do it well, that I can make a connection to or how do, how do I solve it for all of you is kind of my next thing that I want to tackle. Because we see value and now we have to be able to provide that value immediately for all of you is, is kind of where I to want to go.

Speaker C: But it's interesting you're saying about that and we'll talk separately from this podcast. I know we're live recording, but I was just thinking about like the people on the boat this weekend. I'm like, oh my gosh, you had someone from Meta, so large company, but. And you've got yours too. And then someone small business owner and I, I'm like, I, I'm trying to pick his brain because he, and, and he was self taught. I mean he's like from 8 to 8 he's like sometimes I need to remove myself from it because I'm, I get so into it. And he's like just spending so much time learning it and he said he just Learned it from YouTube and he started just doing it like just trying it and then he's reaching out to. There's a community he got involved with and I don't know, it's on if it's on WhatsApp or something and it's a paid thing. And then he goes on and he's meeting, I mean even we're on the boat. He met someone in the UK that's doing some incredible things and so it's just like he's, you know, learning off of each other in this community. Um, but I think learning off of that community and growing that and the whole AI agents and behind the scenes and having that Mini Mac, I thought that was really interesting to.

Speaker A: That's probably an Open Claw installation.

Speaker C: It is, it is an Open claw. Yes. I'm writing that down because I know he took a picture of his screen and I, it got blurry but I'm like, I think that says Open Claw.

Speaker A: So maybe we can end here then. I have a guest that I need to attend to. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: Thank you for your time and your story and for what you're putting out there with AI. I'm just really excited for people to listen to this, not only from learning about how quickly it's transforming, but from someone's journey. And it's still continuing. It's always going to. You're always evolving and changing, no matter what. Thank you so much for sharing your story and for all that you put out there. And I'm so glad to, uh, to know you.

Speaker A: Likewise. And thank you for having me on.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker C: Okay, bye.

Speaker B: Thank you for listening to Curiosity with Kristen. If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe and leave us a review. You can find me on LinkedIn @Kristenravelle. That's K R I s T e n R e v e L l if you'd like to be a guest or have any questions for me, your feedback is essential and helps to improve the show. If you have any suggestions, comments or questions, feel free to email at. Uh, Kristen, the Revelle Group.com that's K R I s t n m at T h e r e v e l l G-R-O-P.com little long, but it works.

Speaker C: Thank you so much.

Speaker B: Have a great day and stay cured. Serious.