Episode 106 - Pod Swap with Kylee Chandler: How to Grow Your Email List & Podcast Organically

Let's talk about something we don't talk about often enough. What happens when things don't go as planned? Because today's episode is a perfect example of building your business in real time, not in perfection mode. I'm joined by the incredible Kylie Chandler.

She's worked behind the scenes with powerhouses like Amy Porterfield and Kathy Heller, helping them grow, scale, and simplify their businesses, specifically their podcasts. And now she's taken all that experience and built something of her own. And we get into that today. We talk about visibility, audience growth, growing a podcast, what actually works right now in online business, and what it really looks like to step into your next level.

But here's the fun part. About halfway through this conversation, technology decided to do its thing, as it always does. And her Riverside Connection decided to get all wonky on us. And so we had to pivot.

We had to switch platforms to my StreamYard and keep on rolling. And you know what? I could have edited that out, but I made the decision not to, because this is the work. This is what it looks like to keep showing up anyway and just rolling with the punches.

So you have options here. You can fast forward through that part, or you can listen to us figure it out in real time and remind yourself that your business does not have to be perfect to be powerful. As my mom says, perfection is boring. And thank goodness for that.

Ready to grow your online business without losing your mind? You're in the right spot, my friend. Welcome to Create Your Online Business Success. I'm your host, Tracy Beaver.

And this show is all about practical strategies, creative ideas, and sanity saving solutions that you can use right now. Let's crank up the dial on your business growth and make it fun. Let's create your online business success. Hello, hello.

Okay. Today I am so excited to be with you, Tracy Beavers. Hi, we're doing this together. I know.

I'm so excited, Kylie. I'm excited to be here with you too. Well, and it's so fun because I know this is going live on your podcast. It's going live on my podcast.

And I always love demonstrating a podcast swap to my audience because I got so much good feedback on that episode. And they're like, it makes sense. So here's a great demonstration of a podcast swap for you today. I love it.

No, when you first told me you were doing these, I was like, that's really genius. Because, you know, we book guests on our show, and then you might as well get the most bang for your buck out of what you're doing. And then both of you get the recording, and both of you can put it on your show, and you only have to record it once. It's genius.

A hundred percent. Okay, Tracy. So I want you to kick it off. Introduce who you are, what you do, just a little bit about yourself.

Yeah, thanks. So I'm a business and sales coach from Little Rock, Arkansas. I'm also a wife, mom to two young adults. You and I were just talking about them before we kicked off the recording.

I cannot believe that my kids are 27 and um 22 and like navigating life like pros. It's just so cool. Um, and John and I are in that phase where we're starting to be able to travel more. So that's exciting.

Um, but so what I do for business, I help established coaches, course creators, and service providers build an organic visibility system that consistently brings in more list growth. Because you know, you and I are very much aligned on the list growth situation. And it consistently attracts those high-paying clients that we all want to work with. And we do this without them being online 24-7 and also without having to think about buying ads.

I love that so much. I'm so excited to dive into that. I have questions for you. I know.

I have questions for you too. I want you to introduce yourself to my audience, please, ma'am. I would love to. Okay, and so also a little fun tidbit.

Tracy and I got to work intimately together. You were in my mastermind last summer in my beta group, and it was so fun just to get to know you, your heart, your business. And you were the Leanne. Um, okay, wait.

You were you were my Leanne Morgan of our community. And uh we I you just always brought the giggles and all that. So I just I just adore you. And if you work with Tracy, great choice.

Great choice. But so my name is Kylie. I'm a podcast marketing and growth expert. Um, I've been in the industry for over a decade now and have gotten the opportunity to work with amazing podcasters like Amy Porterfield, Kathy Heller, um, Natalie Ellis of Boss Babe, and since then have supported 150 female podcasters in really focusing on taking their podcast and making it the cornerstone of their marketing so they don't have to be on social media all the time and they can really grow their email list and then turn those subscribers into paying customers.

So it's been a fun journey, and I just, you know, love what I do. We've had I've had amazing success through just these marketing strategies. Like we grew Amy's podcast by 234%. Um, one of my clients increased her revenue by 77% after we implemented all of these strategies.

So lots of fun. I love that. And okay, fun fact you and your husband are full-time RVers, right? Uh almost full-time.

We have to go jack's down in the summer for a few months, but yes, we do. We live in a fifth wheel. We have an almost three-year-old daughter and another one on the way, and we're not stopping. My my friend just texted actually a lot of people.

So will you become, will you be moving back to Minnesota when you know, number two? And we're like, heck no, we we're figuring out how we're gonna make it work in this RV. We meet people and families who are like, I got four kids in the RV. And I'm like, okay, two is gonna be more than enough for us, but we'll make it work.

And right, right. That's exciting. So do you guys live in different places all year round? Well, you know, we move around a little bit less now that we have a kiddo.

And so, like, we've been in southern Utah this whole winter. Um, but we're gonna go over to like Moab. And so we do some little, we have the spots we like to go. My husband dirt bikes, but we both mountain bike.

So generally we're just in the desert where we can mountain bike. That's so cool. Is he also an entrepreneur like you? He is a farmer in the summer, which is why we have to go back to Minnesota.

And then he's a full-time daddy in the winter. Oh my gosh, that's so fun. Okay. All right.

I know, I know both of our uh our sets of listeners are like, ladies, we are here to learn list growth and podcasting. And I'm sitting here, I'm sending your one to get into your personal life and talk about we're catching up. I okay, let me dive in first because you use a word that I want more clarity around for my audience. So you help established coaches, course creators build organic visibility system.

Yeah. Okay, yes. What is the organic visibility system? Like, can you dive in?

What does that look like? What makes that up? Yeah, it's actually an ecosystem that I that I teach people how to build. And it is through um my, I have an eight-week group coaching program called Business Visibility Made Easy that I developed um after trying to run paid ads and wasting thousands and thousands of dollars.

And I just got so frustrated with the whole process that I thought there has got to be more ways to build an email list other than just creating another lead magnet and putting it out on social media. And so back then, Facebook was my platform of choice and it still is. It's where I've built my uh my multi-six figure business all organically. Um, back then, LinkedIn was a place to go find a job.

And Instagram, I wasn't on it. I didn't understand it. I was like, mm-mm. So I dove into Facebook and I developed over 10 strategies through that platform alone that when you layer them in the proper order that I teach, you actually build a visibility ecosystem that begins to turn on itself for you so that you don't have to think about, oh, I need to spend 10 hours this week growing my list.

You just go in and you do your daily activities, your weekly activities, and your list starts to grow and your leads start coming in automatically. It's really cool. But it's little things like um, you know, there's so many communities, and community is a big word for for this year for 2026. Um, I feel like the people that are gonna be successful in business are the ones who are gonna make those genuine human connections and build relationships and community.

And so Facebook groups, I mean, there are some amazing, there's some really icky ones, there are, but there's some really great ones where you can be visible and be of service, not promote anything. But if you have your Facebook personal profile dialed in the way that I teach, it's actually a list growth funnel for you. And it does the work for you. And all you have to do is show up and be your amazing self, answering questions, for example, about podcasting.

You know, if you're in a Facebook group with a bunch of entrepreneurs and people are like, my podcast isn't growing, or, you know, what's a great way to leverage my podcast? And you're there and you're answering their question, they're gonna get curious about you, Kylie. And when they go to click on your personal profile, they slide right down to your email list. So it's things like that that end up creating this.

I love to just call it an ecosystem because I feel like it gives everybody a great visual picture. Okay, okay. So Facebook, I thought Facebook is dead. Yeah, well, it's not.

It is not, and people are sleeping on it. And I am here to tell you it is not. It is a great platform. Um, I think there's three billion monthly users, if I'm not mistaken.

I that was the last stat that I saw. And our our demographic, Kylie, online entrepreneurs, they are on Facebook and they're in Facebook groups if they're smart. Um, you know, some people are stubborn and they're like, I like Instagram. Well, that's okay, that's cool.

Instagram doesn't offer you communities. No, right? So, anyway, that I love Facebook for that. For for that reason alone, is the communities.

But also with the strategies that I teach, you can take them over to other communities, ones that are housed on Kajabi or Circle or Heartbeat. So, um, anyway, it's just fun to make sure that your social media profile is all dialed in to benefit you. Well, it's so interesting because my husband, I never go on Facebook, but my husband is loves, he's like, I don't like the social aspect at all. I want, I want to be in the communities.

That's where I find my dirt biking buddies and this and that. So it's that it makes sense. I haven't dove into it. So now you might be a you might be in my ear saying that.

So, okay, so if somebody wants to start on Facebook, would it be more beneficial for so you know, for me, we have podcasters who are entrepreneurs, you have entrepreneurs in your audience. So if somebody wants to go to Facebook and start, what's the right way to go about this? Are they going and joining communities first and just like being a support and just mentioning, like, oh, I, you know, offering advice, or are you going and you're starting your own group? Oh, you could do either one.

So I started my own free Facebook group. It's called Be a Confident Entrepreneur. Um, and you're welcome to join us. We have your demographic is in that group.

We have over 4,000 members in the group. And um, so you can do your own group because the way I teach part of the ecosystem, the way I teach you to set up the membership entry questions, people want to give you their email address to be able to join the group. So that is a list growth funnel for you, having a free Facebook group. But you don't have to start your own free group.

The best place to start on Facebook is to, and your listeners can go look at my personal profile. Um, you want to make sure that your personal profile is fully maxed out. Every nook and cranny of it is dialed in, talking about who you are, who you serve, and how. And your cover photo leads to your email list.

That's the secret sauce of the personal profile. Once you have that done, then go into a couple of communities. Don't do what I did. I joined like 10 or 12 groups and I ended up overwhelming myself.

No, just pick two or three. Um, if your audience is online entrepreneurs, come join mine and get the lay of the land. And if they allow promotion, promote in the thread or on the day they allow it. But other than that, Kylie, all you're doing is being of service.

So, like, for example, in my free group, if somebody said, Oh, I'm thinking about starting a podcast, what's a great hosting platform? Well, oh my stars, you could go in there and comment and say, Hey, you know, I this is what I help my students and clients navigate. I like Buzzsprout, I like to record on Riverside, I like, you know, da-da-da-da-da. And we use the script for editing or whatever it is you guys do.

And all you've done is help answer their question, but you've also planted a seed because you've said, I help my clients and students do this. And so they they know they're like, oh, she's an expert. And if they ever want to hire somebody, they're gonna keep you in mind, especially if you're active in that group and they see your name a lot. Right.

I love that. Establishing the authority. And I I can't agree with you more, Tracy. This year is about the community, it's about collaboration, it's about the the personalized touches.

And hold on one sec. I'm getting an unstable internet. I don't know if that's me. Yeah, um, I think I I from what I can tell, everything's good.

Are you I might have to tell my husband to turn off his phone just to make sure. Okay. But no, um, hold on. I let me ask him to turn that off or just see really quick.

Okay. Okay, that's weird. He's not even here. Um he's not even, he's not even here.

So I don't know why it's going. I just don't want to record. Um do you want to turn the Wi-Fi off on your phone? That might help.

I did turn it off on my phone, yeah. Okay. So you know what? So it's March.

It's March, it's duh. It's March in St. George now, and this is like we're we're literally looking at Zion National Park, like it's our backyard here. And so there's a ton of people here now, which we're not used to at all.

And so I wonder if more people are just using the internet than normal. Because I'm like, I never had an issue with this. But um, okay, here's what I want to do because I just don't want to like go out. Um I'm gonna push stop and see what happens, and then we can okay.

It's not even letting me stop. Are you plugged into your modem? Yes. Okay.

Okay. We were just getting into the we were just in so much juiciness. I know. And I want to get to your juiciness, and I want you to tell my audience about your view and stuff.

Because I would say let's exit out of this, but I want to make sure that we don't lose. Okay, so it says it's recording again. Maybe. Of course, I just had like a Zoom call before this.

I had no issues whatsoever. That's okay. Okay, it says it's recording, so let's let's get back to it. I'm gonna go back to what I was saying.

Yeah. Okay, so I can agree with you more. Hold on, Daniel, just cut. There's probably some glitchiness there, so you can cut that, but I couldn't agree with you more that this is the year for community.

I just think that people are craving those personalized touches. And I so I am not on Facebook yet, but I do like to use Instagram. And I just was on a call with my client this morning. We were talking about non-social ways to grow her podcast.

And she said, What do you use Instagram for? Because I know you're there, I know you're not posting a ton. And I said, I use it for the the direct message, voice message aspect. Every time I get a follower, I'm voice messaging them.

And in my mentorship yesterday, I had two people literally say, Kylie, you voice messaged me. And then I thought, I'm gonna go check on her podcast. I binged and now I'm in your mastermind. And so it wasn't even I saw you posting reels, I saw you posting on stories.

It was literally, that's my favorite aspect. If we are gonna talk about the social, and I always, always invite them right away to join my newsletter or somehow on my newsletter and like, let's get you off of social, let's get you on my newsletter as quick as I can, but we can chat here and that works. So I love these strategies and I I agree with you. Yeah.

Um, so uh okay, I want to dive into that for a second. Um when someone so if I'm understanding, I think you're frozen again, Kylie. Oh turn your video off. Can we hop over to Zoom or something?

Um, yeah, we could hop over to we can use my StreamYard. I was gonna say, should we try StreamYard or something different? So what we can do is we can maybe piece them together. I think we'll be fine.

I don't want this to keep happening. So can you email me your StreamYard one and then hopefully we don't know if it's Riverside or I will do that. Um are we okay to leave? Because it says it's 99% uploaded.

Um, let's pause. Um let's mute ourselves over here. If you just mute yourself and then let's just leave it open, and then we'll we'll jump over to StreamYard. All right, okay, part two.

Okay, Kylie. So you just said something really cool about um over on Instagram, but what you said also applies to Facebook that I love. It applies to LinkedIn if one of our listeners is big in LinkedIn, and it's the DMs. I love connecting in the DMs, but what I want you to go back and say what you said again about when somebody follows you, what's the process and what are you saying to open up that conversation?

Okay, I yes, I love talking about this because while it is social, you can use the strategy and not be posting consistently on social or interacting all the time. So and you are so right. Like I just taught in my mentorship yesterday, I called it girl real marketing because here's the thing with smaller, I say smaller businesses, but smaller podcast businesses, sometimes we have to do a little bit of footwork, a little bit of legwork. And these are great ways to create super fans for your podcast or to get them to grow your email list like you talk about really efficiently with people who are very engaged.

Um so anytime I get a new follower, I hop over there again. I literally have a template that my students can use that I use. You can use on LinkedIn, you can use on Facebook, you can use on Instagram. And there's a couple ways I go about this.

One, if you have a juicy newsletter, which I'm not a big fan of, like, especially because I'm in the podcast world, like sending out an up an email that's like, hey, I released a new podcast episode. Here's what it's about. People are gonna check it out. Give them something juicy, give them lifestyle, give them industry updates.

All oh, and by the way, give them the podcast episode if you have one. Right. But my newsletter is that way. I know it's really juicy.

I have like 60% open rate. People have it all the time. So I'm very proud of it. So when somebody follows me, I first start by sending them a canned message that I have saved in Instagram.

I think you can use that in other platforms as well. And it says, hey there. And I literally I input their name and then it says, Thank you so much for the follow. I'd love to know what my what about my content stood up out to you and how it can be supportive to you.

Oh, and by the way, be sure to join my newsletter. And then if they get back to me, which of course you have a handful of people who don't, but I would say majority of people do respond. They say something, yada yada. I send them a voice message back because I want them to know for a couple of reasons to do this.

One, I want them to know that I am here for the voice message. Let's talk back and forth. Two, a huge part of the strategy for growing your podcast, social media, or not your social media, but um, website, anything is having strong SEO words that are audience-led, not owner led, not Tracy led, not Kylie led, audience led. So when I can hear them telling me their struggles, what keeps them up at night, their biggest struggle on their podcast, those are keywords for me.

And I can create the podcast episode from it. I can use those as my episode titles and I know they're gonna be searching them. Um AI is gonna start indexing me for those. So that is the beautiful, beautiful thing about doing the DM conversation.

And then who knows where that's gonna lead? You know, it could lead to a new client, it could lead, you know, and then again, you can remind them be sure that you're on my newsletter. Or if you are a podcaster, you can literally say, Well, you know, you mentioned this. I actually have a podcast playlist specifically that I dive into teaching XYZ.

You mentioned it. Go ahead, grab it. So it's like the the opportunity with this is endless. And again, people are so craving.

Like, I can't tell you how many people are like, I can't believe you just like sent me a voice message. You took the time to do it, and it takes a minute or less. Exactly. And you know what?

You can do it anywhere. You can be out walking the dog and send them an audio. You can be riding your bike, although I don't recommend it, but you can mountain bike. I take that back.

I don't think I think. That's a dangerous example. Don't do that. But yeah, it's true.

And the other cool thing is when you think about how long it may take you to create a reel, we'll just go with Instagram since we're kind of on that. But think about I'm not against reels and stories. Those are fine and there's a place for them. But the the amount of time it takes you to create a reel, you could literally message, you know, 10, 20 people back.

Correct. I was I was just having this conversation um yesterday with Julie Solomon. Um, I don't know if you follow Julie, she's amazing. But um she was she she would love this conversation because essentially um the people that were in the room with us were saying they needed more followers, they needed more followers, they needed more followers.

And I was like, you don't have a leads problem, you have a conversion problem. And we need to go deeper with the people that are raising their hands to want to be connected to us, and that's what you're saying, Kylie, is this person, Tracy Beavers, raised her hand by liking my post, and you're doing it in a very genuine way. And the other thing I love about sending an audio is it's you, and I can tell it's you, and it's not a bot because there are like mini chat drives me insane in the membrane.

I can't stand it. I got caught up in somebody's mini chat bot, and I and they had said DM me on Instagram, and here I am in this circus wheel of bot situation, and I finally just got frustrated and left. I thought, well, they told me to DM them, that clearly isn't gonna work. So oh well, but yeah, that's but I love what you're saying because then that you are uncovering their needs, which that's sales 101.

Yeah, okay. Can I ask that too? Because you mentioned mini chat and mini chat just what in the last month or so released where you can like now message a follower automatically with mini chat. I haven't opted into it, I haven't done it because I do this manually now.

The beautiful thing is on these platforms you can save that can message, so it's it's just as quick. And people can follow mini chat, a mini chat message looks different too. So you can see, so they can see it. So I think that that stands out to them as well.

But yes, I think so too. I want to talk about podcasting for a second because I know this is your jam and it's what you teach. Um and I know that you believe in growing the email list. Whatever we're doing, whether it be being on Instagram and connecting with people in the DMs or drawing people into our list so that we can talk to them in the inbox.

When it comes to your podcast, what are some of the biggest mistakes that you see podcasters making when they're trying to grow their email list using their podcast? Oh, well, first I think is not utilizing dynamic ad insertion. Okay. And really, well, actually, I should back up.

The problem that most people are doing is that they're not figuring out the topics, the keywords, the SEO rich keywords that their audience is craving, wanting, using in their day-to-day life. Because the premise of everything we do must that is the foundation. From there, we create podcast episodes that are so discoverable, organically discoverable for these people, and then they went to the podcast. Or we create lead magnets or playlists that are specifically sticking to this pain point.

So we're just recording, thinking we're doing episodes that I would like, so they would like, right? And then we're not using the keywords in the episode title, so we're not organically getting discovered. So nobody's actually discovering us to get onto our email list. And if they do, I don't even invite them to get on my email list.

And so I see a lot of podcasters kind of falling into that cycle. Um, the other thing is just not using their podcast as like not creating lead magnets based on all of their on their podcast episodes. Yeah. Because this is content you've already created.

Why create more of something when give them a podcast playlist or bundle of sorts or create a podcast quiz and use that as a lead generation thing? Get them onto your email list first, and then we can always nudge them about the podcast as much as we need. Oh, and by the way, I'm I have this offer. And so I think that that is a really big thing.

And another thing is just people saying, Well, I put it in my show notes, right? Nobody reads show notes anymore on the platforms, like people are reading show notes. And so I would say those are the biggest uh-oh's that I see about making. So they need to say something in the audio, like um, you know, if you're loving what I'm saying and you want to dive deeper into it, go grab my checklist and then you give them the URL, a very easy URL to remember.

You're absolutely right, Kylie. The only time I will go to the show notes is if somebody has something that I really, really want, and they're like, the link is in the show notes. And then I'm like, oh, okay, but it's still an extra step. I wish they'd just tell me what the URL is.

So you mentioned a podcast quiz. I know this is something you get so excited about, and you really want your clients and students to do. What makes uh a quiz so powerful for podcasting and for growing the show? Okay, this is a great question.

So it's interesting because a podcast-centered quiz is great for growing the show, but more importantly, it's great for growing your email list and then getting those people who come through the quiz into whatever your offers are and the right offer for them. Because our ideal customers and our ideal listeners are all slightly nuanced, and the one thing that you have might not be the perfect fit for them. But if you can not only bring them into your email list, oh, by the way, here's a playlist, a podcast playlist that's specifically made for you, right?

I think of my client, Holly Haynes, has over 600 podcast episodes. Somebody comes in, they find her, they're new, they'll scroll through, they'll probably pick one that they like. Maybe it's not even her best. I mean, we all have those, right?

Yes. And it's like, okay, I'll listen to that. Maybe I'll stick around, maybe I won't. But if I say this playlist is specifically for you, I have 600 podcast episodes.

Here's 10 episodes made for you based on your quiz results. They're gonna binge those, right? It's the guide, step by step, it's the whatever they need. And then they fall into that funnel where not only are they using the podcast, which is such a beautiful nurture tour tool because they get to learn who you are, maybe some personal tidbits, how you teach, how you coach, um, your beliefs, like the things that make you you, and and that is what people really want, right?

They want that relationship with the podcast host. It's like it's like they can they can hear you in their head eventually. Yeah. So we're developing that relationship with them, and then we're emailing them and we're nudging them and we're giving them testimonials from our clients, and then we're like, by the way, I have this product that's so perfect for you based on your quiz results.

Right. So it goes so far beyond the podcast because when we can personalize their their their playlist for them, it's it's a no-brainer because now they're gonna become a super fan because they just listened to 10 episodes that were so spot on for them, but now they're hooked to who you are and what you do and how you do it. I love that. So that podcast quiz, because people love quizzes and you know, they get to learn about themselves, but then you're also giving them this curated playlist.

That feels really special, right? You know, similar to sending them an audio DM, that feels really special. Sending them a curated list of things that they're interested in and saving them that step of having to dig through 600 episodes, that's really special. You know what I mean?

Yeah, I love that. So um, let's talk about engagement with the podcast, like getting, and and I know you taught this last fall that it's not so much about downloads anymore as it is about followers. Right? Right.

Is that still true? Oh, yeah. I mean, you when you were talking about somebody raising their hand, a follower clicks the button they want to follow, they want to subscribe, they want to raise their hand and be notified every time you have a new podcast out. Yeah, downloads still have some thoughts in them and they're up and down.

Why? Because iOS update happens or um a certain streaming platform goes away and we no longer have the downloads coming in from that. So it's very fickle. But when we can think about followers or um even engaged listeners or or noticing patterns and metrics like that, how many people are coming from our podcast onto our email list?

Those are the two seasons. Those are the things we want to we want to see. Got it. So when some if somebody is, they've created their podcast, they're all excited about it, and they're just not getting as much engagement, they're not getting as much list growth, they're not getting as many followers as they feel like they should.

And what are some things that they could look to optimize that might help overcome that? Good question. So, uh, first of all, I know I I go back to this, but it's again the foundation. You probably didn't do the research that you needed to do to figure out what your ideal, I say customer listener interchangeably.

Right. What words they're using, what words they're searching, what words like strike their soul and make them say, this podcast is for me. I have to give it a try. And so once you know those words, you can go back, you can add a tagline to your show name that doesn't even have to be marketed anywhere else.

It's purely for Apple and Spotify because Apple and Spotify are their own search platforms. They're not competing with Google. So, yay, for us, we can literally use that to our advantage. Same with our description.

We plug in our keywords in there, and then every episode title is an opportunity for you to organic, organically rank, be organically discover discoverable to your ideal person. So those are all things that you have to have to do. I think the other thing also is just like assuming that you know the content your audience wants to hear based on what you you think and you know. And again, it comes down to having those conversations.

DM is a great way to do that, or having quiz results that tell you about them. And then that's gonna lead, that's gonna be the lead for your podcast topics. And then it's gonna be a heck yes, every topic after every topic after every topic. So love that.

There's some there's some things that I know are overlooked. Um, and and we can't, gosh, we can't be perfect about everything in business, right? Um, and this is why people hire you is because you help them figure out the things they've overlooked. But what's a really cool, high impact way to promote the podcast?

Because you know I teach, I don't want you to be online 24-7, and we've talked about that. Um, how can I promote this podcast without feeling like I've got to post it all over social media all the time? Okay. Well, first of all, we talked about organic discoverability, so we're not gonna dive into that.

But two other ways that are tried and true is become a guest on other people's podcasts, right? Do swaps if you need. Love those. Right.

The other thing is create relationships with other entrepreneurs who have communities. Yeah, go in and do a training in their community, yeah. And then give them a playlist that is an extension of what you taught. Oh, and by the way, book a free consultation with me or anything like that, or take my quiz.

And so using those strategies works really so well. Those are tried and true, those aren't going away. People want that opportunity to see you, get to know you, watch you teach all of those things as well. So yeah, I I totally agree with you.

Borrowing other people's audiences, um, a lot of people call it BOPA is the term I've heard through tossed around in the last six months. But I that's one of the strategies I teach in my ecosystem too is collaborations. Yeah. Um, you know, if I've I've gone live with people that do LinkedIn lives regularly, I've been a podcast guest, summit speaker, um, you know, and and going back to having those authentic conversations with people, that's where you uncover the potential for a collaboration.

Yes, yes. That that's what I was gonna ask, Tracy, is how how do you start those conversations? Because I think it can be it's one thing to speak and start a conversation with your ideal listener or customer, but like reaching out to other entrepreneurs can feel intimidating. Am I gonna hear back?

Like, how do you reach out? Because we both probably get emails all day long for people who want to be on our podcast or this or that. It's like none of them feel authentic. Right.

They don't. I, in fact, bless their heart is all I can say because I think I think there's somebody selling a uh pitch template because I'm not kidding, Kylie. The same week, two different people used the same email to pitch me. And I was like, oh my stars.

Okay, you got this template from someone. I don't even know. I but I was like, it just gave me the ick, you know? Yes, as the kids say, it gave me the ick.

So um, yeah, so what I do is when I'm again going back to Facebook groups or let's talk about communities in Mighty Network Circle Heartbeat. If you're in a community where you know there are people in that community that share your same audience, then it is very easy, in my opinion, to slide into the DMs, send them if you're on Facebook, send them a friend request. So they're far more likely to get your message. If you're on LinkedIn, send them a connect request.

And then once they do, you could just say, hey, Kylie, I you you and I are both members of the Be a Confident Entrepreneur Group with Tracy Beavers. I love the work this year. I love um the messaging you have on your profile about helping podcasters, you know, grow their lists and um and use the podcast to grow their business. I share that same audience, and this is what I do.

Are you open to a collaboration? Would that be would do you want to set a 15-minute coffee chat and just talk about how we could each leverage each other's audiences to grow our own businesses? That's a genuine, very genuine human way of saying, hey, I really like you. I like what you're doing.

And if somebody, you know, there are people that will still be rude about that, but those aren't my people. You know what I mean? So if you just send them an audio so they can hear your voice, I think that's super powerful. But yeah, you just basically open it up with by emailing them or DMing them and saying, hey, you've got a cool audience.

I like what you do, I've got a cool audience. I'm you don't know what I do yet, but I think you might like it. Let's talk about working together. Yeah.

I love that so much. And I agree. And again, going back to just being a human and showing up and just, you know, talking about, you know, like even if it's a I saw you post about your family, you know, traveling to XYZ. I don't know if I I was there recently.

This coffee shop was great, or you know, just like letting that humanness come through as well. The other thing I love to do is sometimes I'll create a Loom video, just a short Loom video, introducing myself. You know, it's like, okay, she's human. I did that for Kate Kordsmeyer, and she's gonna be coming on my podcast.

And I'm just so excited that, you know, and she's not on social. And so that'll be another great conversation as well. Okay, Tracy, are lead magnets dead in 2026? You know what?

That's a really good question. Um, and nobody's ever asked me that question. I I think the basic ones are. I think the basically now now for me, a lead magnet, um, what I help my students understand is that having a free Facebook group, that's a lead magnet because it's a top of funnel strategy that grows your list.

Having a podcast to me is a lead magnet because that's a top of funnel strategy. But I think there are some things that are my audience is no longer looking for. They don't want a checklist. They don't want a cheat sheet, they want like a quiz, something juicy, they want um a short video, maybe with the checklist.

You know, they want something that they're gonna actually get a quick win from. So I think if your lead magnet is going to be truly of value, then yes, it's going to work. But if it is, hey, just download my you know worksheet for 10 things to watch for yada, yada, yada, and it's something that they could find through AI, it's not gonna resonate. Just like people are saying that courses are dead in 2026, courses are not dead.

What's dead in that environment is the do-it-yourself course that you just buy and you have to sit there and do by yourself. And there's nobody there for you to ask your questions of. There's nobody there to say, you're doing a great job. Yes, you're on the right track.

You know, and so the people that like you and I have been talking about, the people that are loving on their audience, they care about their students and clients, they're answering their questions, they're available. Those are the people that are gonna shine in 2026. So I don't think lead magnets are dead, but I'd love to know your opinion, Kylie. What do you think?

Okay, well, I agree with you that I feel like the checklists, those types of things just aren't they're overdone. Again, Chat GPT will give them a quicker answer without being potentially on an email list they don't want to be on. Um, however, what I have found is more of if you can be like authoritative state of the union type freebie, like I did 2026 um podcast marketing trends. And so, and that I've had like 200 people sign up in like a month and a half, like it, which is which is good, you know, and um just started running ads to it too, and it's performing great in the ads.

My CP, my CPL is huge and or low, really low, which is great. But so I think if you have that angle, it could work, but the checklist and stuff, no. What I will say, I've been testing since I started because I really only started my business just over a year ago. It was January of 2025, so it's been you know, you're probably think back to that.

It's like you test, right? You test a lot of things, and I knew I didn't want to get stuck in the rabbit hole of creating freebie after freebie that didn't perform. So I'm like, what happens if I just create a really juicy newsletter and I promote how juicy my newsletter is and how unique it is, and that has been doing well. I use that in a lot of places.

I just try people and I I make it sound, I say, I figure out the industry updates as for the podcaster, so you don't have to stay on top of it. Yes, there's there's tidbits that are, you know, I keep you updated on network, um, you know, or networking opportunities and all the things. And I literally, like I said, my open rate is so good, so so good. Like 60%.

And people email me all the time just telling me how much they love my email. And I think people are moving towards that type of a newsletter, and I hope they are, and it works so good as a free free resource. Yeah. No, I really like your newsletter, and I recently changed my emails.

Um, I gosh, it's probably been about 90 days now. I changed it up. The format's a little different. It's kind of a um, it's it's kind of like a newsletter where I give I give them a visibility and list growth tip.

Then I tell them, you know, what I I think I titled it something about what came out of my mouth on the pod this week, telling them about my my latest podcast episode, and then um, you know, what what happened over on my YouTube channel, um, you know, just being funny about it. And and, but then also showcasing um people that are doing awesome things, you know, like um when I'm a an affiliate for Liz Wilcox um and her email marketing membership, I'm gonna put that in there. Or, and then I also try to give them some glimpse of my personal life, which may not be a great idea because I am uh a little quirky, but I lately have been talking about the bird feeder camera that my husband got me for Christmas and all of the species of birds that are in our backyard and how I can identify them by sight and sound now.

But anyway, it's funny. And then I'll include a picture of, you know, like the the one I did this week was a brown headed cowbird that was in the camera and he looked like he was doing the you know, this electric slide or something the way the camera caught him. And I was like, I dance for my I dance when my dinner arrives too, little buddy. It's yeah, you know, check out this bird.

So but that that Tracy is, you know, it's like I think of all the clients that say, Well, oh, should I do this? Because so many people are already talking about this and that. Sure, but they don't talk about it like you do, they don't have the channel that you do. They and that's what sets you apart, and that's why people fall in love with you and want to continue to work with you and then refer you and then listen to your podcast and all the things.

So I love that angle. I love it so much. Thanks. So before we wrap this up, um, because I could talk to you all day, and and that I I think our listeners might get tired of it, but I would not.

Um, I want you to share with everybody that's listening to my show right now what's the name of your podcast and where's the best place to connect with you, Kylie? Yeah. So I would say go so go to Apple Spotify, your favorite listening platform, type in Goo uh clip. Type in podcast growth tools, and that's my podcast.

Um, so definitely be sure to hit the follow subscribe button there. If you want to connect with me on a deeper level, go to podcastmarketinghub.com forward slash subscribe. Again, my newsletters are kind of the the heart and pride of my my company.

Sure I use a little bit of AI to refine, but really it's me, you know, speaking just like you, Tracy. Um and then go find me on Instagram, Kylie J. Chandler, and DM me. Let's talk.

Let's just chat. I love, love, love meeting new people, hearing about your podcast, your things. So yeah. And then you too, Tracy, please share where my audience can go and learn more about you.

Yeah, thanks. So my podcast, we launched it about a year and a half or so ago. And I, you know, I don't know, I guess people just it rose to top rank 5% on listen notes, which I don't know if that's a big deal or not, but it makes me happy to know that people love the show. So it's called Create Online Business Success.

Um and you can find it anywhere you listen to your podcasts. Also I mentioned my free Facebook group. It's called Be a Confident Entrepreneur. Come join us.

We have over 4,000 online entrepreneurs and we do fun free events every month. I do a live QA Ask Me Anything for my members and I also do a free networking session for my members. It's the first Friday of every month and we usually have about 45 people that come and they love the breakout rooms and the music we play and the prizes we give away and it's just so it's so fun, you know, like we've been talking about we've got to find ways to connect with our audience on a deeper level especially in 2026.

And those are two things that I added last fall in an effort to um get to know my my audience better. And it's been beautiful. Oh I love that. Well Tracy, I think I love your approach to business.

I love your approach to list building that how genuine you are and so proud of your podcast. I think it's so been so fun to watch it grow. And um thank you so much for the opportunity to do a podcast swap. This was such a blast.

It was it was so fun and I love your show too Kylie and your newsletter. I do I read it every single time. You're so sweet. All right Tracy well best of luck with everything and we'll talk soon.

Yes ma'am Hey thanks for tuning in to create your online business success. I hope you found today's episode packed with actionable tips and inspiration. And listen if you want to dive even deeper with me and connect with a community of like-minded entrepreneurs that totally get you and understand what you're building then join us in my free Facebook group. You get to promote your offers anytime, network with other entrepreneurs just like you and possibly find some lucrative collaborations.

Just search for Be a confident entrepreneur, get visible, grow your email list and your income over in Facebook. Or if it's easier, just click the link in the show notes. We cannot wait to welcome you in.