Entrepreneurial Success Without Sacrificing Family with Shana Lynn

Speaker A: I want to welcome Shanna to our podcast and she is a trusted advisor for top tier subscription based companies that are looking to amp up their customer retention. She is a master in her field, a entrepreneur, a mom, a wife. She has so many things, but she is a genius about creating community and how you do that. And I want to have her on because I think even if you don't have an online membership or anything like that, like, we can learn how to build community better, because don't we need that right now in our world? Like we need each other Even in our busy. We need people. Whether we want to admit it or not, we absolutely do. Welcome Shanna to the show. I am excited for you to hear this one.

Speaker B: Welcome to Couch Time with Amy Wine, the podcast that's all about helping high achievers like you thrive in life, relationships and business. Hey there. I'm, um, your host, Amy Wine. And each week I will be bringing you insights, inspiration and practical strategies to help you live your best life.

Speaker A: So whether you're looking to improve your

Speaker B: relationships, grow your business, or find more meaning and purpose, you have come to the right place. With expert interviews, real life stories, and actionable advice, Couch Time with Amy Wine is the ultimate guide to personal growth and success. So grab your cup of coffee or tea like me, get comfortable on that couch and join me for real life, real relationships, real people. It is time to take your life to the next level, and I am here to help you every step of the way.

Speaker A: Welcome, Shanna. I am so excited that you're here, live in person. I don't just see you in an event or something in a random year, because I feel like that's how often I see you.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I'm excited to be here too. Like we were just saying, it's so nice to do these because you get to know somebody more intimately.

Speaker A: Yes. And, uh, I love that too, because I've always wanted to get to know more about what you do and know more about you, but it's hard to find time just to connect. Unless you just randomly run into somebody in a different state in an event, and those are so busy, I find I don't have the time there. So I'm excited about this. So I wanted to ask you, you, uh, are working with subscription type companies and help boost their customer retention through building community. And I think this is a valid conversation whether somebody has a subscription company or not, because, like, building community is huge and I think there's takeaways from that. But what inspired you to specialize and Move into that space.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's kind of funny. I've always been in the community space. When I was in college I actually wrote a paper on marketing in the interactive community of Second Life, which was the OG virtual reality world. And so that paper really took off and that uh, really leaned me into the community space. So when I first graduated and got a career, it was working with an academic medical center to build the first social media policy for academic medicine, taking, you know, clinics like Children's Hospital, Cancer Center, Life Flight and building communities for those centers online. So that was like my first foray way back in the day. And then in 2012 I started becoming a full time consultant in that uh, space. So it, it's something that I naturally was drawn to because I'm always a connector. My old pastor used to say I was like the neurons of the church, just always making connections between people. So I think I had a natural ability for it, natural desire for it, and didn't intentionally, you know, merge that in a business sense. And honestly, if you would have asked me over a decade ago if I could make a business out of it, I probably would have said no. But the times have changed a lot and people are really seeing the value of community. And for me, I love specializing in everything that happens after the sale from the first time that somebody becomes a customer to the time that they may walk out your door for the last time. What is that experience for them? Because so many people oversell and under deliver and I just don't love that. So I really focus on helping people create not just the community side, but really a great experience for their customers that keeps their customers coming back time and time again.

Speaker A: I love that. When I was looking for app, uh, providers, I knew I wanted what's called an OTT app, which is a streaming app. So it's Ron Roku, Apple TV, it's on your phones, it's on your app Watch and it's a different type of that. And most of them don't have community in it. And I remember hearing you, I don't remember if it was at an event or online somewhere in past years, like years ago actually. And I remember hearing you and just thinking, I don't want to have one without a community.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And it took me almost a year to find a company that added a community element, like a little chat forum in there. You can have specific ones into the app process itself so that when people go through it, it's called Thrive Life tv and it's personal development, mental health, marriage, Parenting, physical, emotional. So it's like a, uh, all experts, all in their life domains. Right. So you can thrive in life, relationships and business. But when I did that, the community part was so big and I, uh, we're just now getting into it where we're getting people into the app it's just now launching. So I can't wait to see what happens with it. But I, um, may be calling on your expertise at some point because it is not mine. I think it's a very niche thing that you do. You don't hear about it like people saying after the sale. I don't hear that very often.

Speaker C: Yeah. And I think, you know, a lot of people talk about building community in just a very vague way. They don't really have a strategy around it. And it comes down to like, what should you post on Facebook or what should you post in your Facebook group? And that's just not my philosophy. I go from community strategies of old because, you know, you know this as a trained therapist, humans are humans, whether they are online or offline or at an event. And the dynamic of human psychology really hasn't changed that much over, you know, the last hundred years, decade, et cetera. So we can actually look at communities and movements of the past and learn a lot from them. So I tell people, I don't take online community strategies and teach you online community strategies. I built my strategy off of looking at gangs, sororities, political parties, movements of the past to try and figure out what are the common threads among those movements and communities that make them so sticky. And then how can we apply those aspects to our business? Right. Whether that be an in person brick and mortar business or whether that be like an online product or service.

Speaker A: I love that. So what would you say are the key elements that kind of make that community effective and help retaining customers over time?

Speaker C: Yeah, there's really four key elements. This is like the four pillars of our thriving community framework. In the first two, I think are the most important. Everybody cares about like a piece of the third, and then they really think, I'm going to talk about the fourth. But the first two, which are cause and culture, are the ones that people spend the least amount of time on. Um, but are the most important because the cause is having that really clear purpose. I like to describe it as like the flag that you're waving. Right. If you were in a crowded room and everybody was going to wave this flag to try to attract their perfect person, do you know what that is? And this isn't just like you Know, I help people, you know, leave their teaching job and become virtual assistants or whatever. It's the why behind the purpose. It's the why behind doing that and having a clear path to progress towards whatever that purpose might be. So when we can get really clear on those things, that really helps us call out to the right people, and it gives us a filter. Because now, why are we here? Well, we're here to do this thing. We're here because we're headed in this direction together. And one of the best ways to build community is to be working towards a common goal alongside somebody else. So really getting clear on that purpose. And then the culture, which is the beliefs, the behaviors, and the boundaries. You know, I think people like to say that thriving communities accept everyone and, uh, are kind to everyone. But if you look at communities of past, if you look at political parties, if you look at religious groups, sororities, if you look at movements like the civil rights movement, it wasn't like that. Right. There were certain beliefs that that community upheld. And because of those beliefs, they had particular behaviors that they exemplified as a community and expected of the members. And then they also had boundaries around behaviors that they wouldn't accept. So when we can intentionally create that, those are like the two pillars that you start with to create a thriving community.

Speaker A: Wow, that is fascinating. I can already see, like, a mistake. I made one of the very first communities I had online, and I. I worked in the marriage online. This was maybe five years ago. And now that I'm going back into the marriage world online, and I have not wanted to for a really long time, like, I've battled God with that because I did not have the best experience. And I know part of it was my marketing, part of it was definitely my marketing. But I just kind of allowed anybody to post on the wall, even though we had rules and we had things like that. I would. When you get 1500 people overnight and I shut it off at that point, my business coach at the time was like, you did what? I was like, yeah, um, I'm one person. 1500 is enough. I had some of the most difficult marriage problems ever show up, and it just got really negative really fast. So I learned kind of to not allow them to just randomly post. But I posted and then they did it. But then where do you draw the line of driving that much of it versus allowing the community to thrive? Like, how would you set the boundaries in that instance?

Speaker C: Yeah, so I always think of, uh, it like that study they did with children on a playground, right. They Put children on a playground with no fence and they just kind of stuck to the building, right? They didn't play, but when they gave them the fence, they played and played freely because they had that boundary. And so it's about communicating early on what the purpose of the group is and what is acceptable and not acceptable. Because then what happens is if we've done a really good job of onboarding people and really kind of indoctrinating people in our culture, then your community starts to self police. They start to report, they start to challenge people. So for example, I had a client that worked with me and they were like, I don't even like my community. I don't want to show up in my community. I don't want to spend any time there. It like, they're wild in there. It's just negative all the time. And so we set this rule that if you came with a, uh, complaint, you needed to come with possible solutions for your situation. Because this was a coaching community. We weren't here to grovel. We weren't here to, you know, just like, grumble in our, you know, life. We were here to make progress. And because we're here to better our marriage or whatever it might be, we're going to take action every time we post by coming up with a potential solution. And so what would happen is when people posted without one, the community would say, and what could you do about that? What's one possible solution? So the community started to self police. Now granted, there's still, you know, some that would get removed, but they always got removed with little feedback. Which is what I love about, you know, Facebook groups in particular is that you can remove, you can reference rule and you can even add a little note now that just says like, hey, I'm so glad that you shared this. I see that this is a very hard time for you. Just a reminder though that we require X, Y, Z or we don't talk about blah, blah, blah. So could you do this post again and just edit it to, you know, explain that?

Speaker A: Oh, I love that. I do not have that in my app, but I'm going to suggest it. Yeah, I, um, might. I do love that because it, uh, yeah, it became overwhelming and I'd never run a group. I had no idea what to do. But wow. So changing the subject a little bit. Well, same subject, but different question. What are the most common misconceptions that people have about building communities for customer retention?

Speaker C: Yeah, the, the first misconception is that a community is a Facebook group. Like people think it is the platform itself. And so they really limit themselves into how they can create community. I love creating connection and community through things like zoom calls and breakout sessions and, you know, live events or whatever it might be. But they think, oh, well, I just need to manage a good Facebook group. Um, but the reality is, is you're missing out on so many other opportunities to create connection, not just among your community members, but between you and your team and the community as well. So we really teach how to leverage email, you know, personalized video messages, zoom calls, all sorts of activities to help facilitate that community connection. So that's always, like, the first thing that I have to debunk for people. And I think the second mistake that people make is thinking, you know, if you build it, they will come and they will figure out what this community is supposed to be like. I'm just going to let the community dictate the culture, because if we don't define the culture, then the loudest voices in your community will define it for you. Like, at the end of the day, your community will have a culture. It's just, do you get to define what it is, or is your community going to define what it is?

Speaker A: Oh, uh, that's huge. Yeah, I think that's my mistake that I just was like, I'm going to throw this out there, and we're just

Speaker B: going to have it.

Speaker A: And never in my wildest imagination did I think I would get what I got. So, I mean, you're an online business entrepreneur, sort of, but you work with all kinds of businesses, but you're an entrepreneur. Like, what is one of the hardest lessons that you've had to learn in running your business?

Speaker C: The hardest lesson I had to learn. I love this, because this is, like, I actually was being interviewed right before this, and they asked me a question at the end that was like, what's your final word of wisdom or piece of advice? And I think they wanted me to give community advice. And I was like, well, if I have a business owner's ear, here's what I'm gonna tell them. It's to, uh, make sure that you are building your business around your life and not the other way around. Because I, being a high driver, high achiever, I mean, give me a personality test. And it, uh, literally says, like, I'm a nine. Quick start high D and achiever is my, like, strengths finder. Right. So all the things working against me in that regard, I worked so many hours, and I worked so hard to meet the goals that really other people had Set for me, it was like, oh, well, you need to hit a million dollars in revenue because then you can get this thing or, you know, you can get that award or you can be recognized on this case study versus going back to why did I do this to begin with? I did this for more time freedom and really not massive financial freedom, but just some financial security in and for me. It took a long time for me to come to this place where I said, I want to decide how many hours I'm going to work a week.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: Everything else has to work around that. So that's what we did. So we just worked it out. We were like, I work 25 hours a week. I don't work 60, 80 hours a week anymore. I work 25 hours a week. And if that means we can make half the revenue that we made, that's okay. Because to me, as long as I can profit and pay myself, as long as my family is, you know, sustained, the most important thing are these years with my little ones that I'm never going to be able to get back. So I think as entrepreneurs, you start with that vision and then you get in the space and you realize how hard it is and you have to strive and you have to, you know, uh, hit all these arbitrary goals. Right. So it's getting really focused on the reason. And I still remember sitting in a parking lot and some people will say, God doesn't speak to them. And I totally get that. I understand. I'm not like trying to convert you into believe that. But there was a thought that came to my head that surely was not from me.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, and the thought was, what if instead of trying to make twice as much, you try to work twice as twice or half the amount of time.

Speaker A: Oh, wow.

Speaker C: And I was like, oh. And the thought that followed was, time is the greater asset where you are. And I can do a lot more with your time than your money because I don't know about you, but where we live, everybody's m too busy. Nobody can serve, nobody has an open home, nobody can have you over, nobody can show up when you need somebody. And for us to be a family, where my husband works from home or is a stay at home dad full time, I work 20 something hours a week. Like we can leverage and let God leverage that time in a way that is worth so much more than more dollars we could put into the kingdom.

Speaker A: I love that. And I do think, well, I live in Houston, so a major city, like nobody has time. Like, I couldn't even tell You. I've lived in my house for 25 years and I honestly could no longer tell you who lives in some of these houses around me. Yeah, when we first moved in, we knew everyone, but we were always outside in the cul de sac. And I think having younger kids, that

Speaker C: helped that, uh, for sure.

Speaker A: Now that they're gone, it's like, okay, do I like these people? Do I want. But so many people have moved in and out in that amount of time that it's just like we don't even know them. And I hate it. Like, I want to be the house that's open. Right. Uh, and I, I'm like you, I'm a high achiever. Like, I did not have the margin in my life. So that is, I love those words of wisdom that you just gave because so many people need to learn that. And I know people are going to hear it and go, 25 hours. How do you do that? But do you find, like, I know when I started setting time boundaries on my day and I have the same time thing, I, I work maybe 25 to 30 max. But when you do that, do you find that your yeses and no's become clearer? Like what you're going to do and you say yes to versus what you say no to become a little bit clearer and you can actually get more work done in less time?

Speaker C: A hundred percent. So there's a few things that I find happen. One is like this whole law of constraints and that work will fill the time and space that you give it. So if you give your SP yourself two hours to write a blog post, it will take you two hours to write a blog post. If you give yourself 20 minutes to write a blog post, guess what? In 20 minutes, the blog post is done. And the marginal improvement that you would have gotten from that two hours probably isn't enough to produce an ROI for you. So I look at that. So there truly are so many studies on actually giving yourself a constrained amount of time and how much more focused and productive you are. And then I also look at being really intentional about my time. So that's not just like saying yes and no to things, but it's actually knowing your numbers, knowing the activities that are profit driving activities. I think lots of us like to post on Facebook and hang out in Facebook groups and spend our time and say like, okay, well this is my productive activity. But you're not doing 10 outreaches a day to grow your business. Right? You're not actually selling, you're not networking, you're not Doing these things that actually drive roi. So when you have that constrained amount of time, you really have to look at your business activities and go, what am I doing? Because it's fun and easy and what am I doing? Because it's actually driving revenue in the business. So it really forces us to get super intentional to know our numbers, to really understand what drives profit. And then also you will be surprised. I remind myself of who I was in college when I crammed on a test. Like I did really well. I got a lot done in a short amount of time and that is still true of us today.

Speaker A: I never thought of it that way about the college, but it's so true. Yeah, I hear a lot when I coach people, especially in Boone. I do business coaching as well as being a therapist. I do a lot of things when I do business coaching. I talk to people about really getting structured in their calendar. And entrepreneurs tend to be that creative. You can't put me in a box. Like don't, don't structure me. Like I have to be free flowing. And I'm like, yeah, I am the most free flowing person there is. But if I do not have some type of time blocking, I will be playing brain ping pong all day long and getting nothing done. Which doesn't allow you to work for 25 hours a week. Right?

Speaker C: Yeah. There's this really great book called Deep Work that talks about the science behind that and you're focus every time you shift an activity, it takes you about 15 minutes for your brain to actually refocus. So I love blocking and batching time. I only do meetings on certain days and then I don't ever work Fridays unless I didn't effectively use my 20 hours that week. And then I'm gonna have to work on a Friday. But to me, the Friday is the fun, the creative, the deep work. And I still have time and space for those things. But I batch and prioritize all of those revenue driving activities to the front part of my week so that at the end of the week I'm rewarded with the deep work. Fun, creative.

Speaker A: I like it because you have something to look forward to.

Speaker C: Oh yeah.

Speaker A: So can you share an aha moment that you've had maybe by working with a client that fundamentally kind of changed the way you approach community building?

Speaker C: Who? This is a really good question. You know, I think it's interesting because I worked with Stu McLaren who's membership builder was his director of community for three years. And building community for him was a bit easier because he is a very Community driven personality. And he had so many quirks that we could, like, grasp onto. Right. And take advantage of. And he was willing to invest in community because he knew the value of it. So when I started working with other community leaders and business owners, a lot of their question was, well, I'm not a stew, or I'm not a so and so, because they didn't have what they thought was this required personality.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And I think for me it was going, oh, wait a second here. Like there's, There's a still. The same strategy that I used for Stu exists for everybody else, but everybody's trying to be him because he teaches memberships.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And so he was teaching thousands of people of memberships and they were all trying to do it like him and do it his way. And that to me was like, how do I teach people to really craft a community strategy that leans, uh, in their strengths, leads into their vision so that they can sustain? Because the biggest thing I find people do when they try to model somebody else in their personality or how they run community is that they burn out and then they shut it down or they ghost on. So in order for us to build something that's sustainable for the business owner, then we really have to make sure that we build something that suits their particular personality and vision.

Speaker A: Oh, uh, that makes so much sense because I am not a stew.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: I've been through his stuff and I look at him like, I can never be this excited.

Speaker C: Yeah. Like I would be faking it for sure.

Speaker A: I would be. I'd be like, drained. Passed out on the floor when I was done. I love being with people, I love talking with people, but it can't because I'm. I'm introverted, but just over the line. Right. I can extrovert when I need to, but it does drain me and I have to be alone to recharge. So sometimes that's kind of hard.

Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. And. And Stu is an introvert, truly. Like, I worked very closely with him for three years. He's an introvert, but he has this performance character which, you know, we all kind of have that, like we show up to perform in a certain way. But I. Yeah, I think for me it was like really making sure that I spoke from a strategic perspective versus a tactic perspective. Because there's lots of tactics that we did that worked really well for stuff that are just not going to work or aren't going to sustain for somebody else. So really figuring out, like, what is the strategy behind all of this and making sure that that it could be built in a really sustainable way. And honestly I think that and the relationship between the business owner and the person who's helping run the community, those are really the two things that I feel like came out of that the most that I've been able to help. So now, like in my group program, I don't just support the business owner, I support the community manager, the person who's helping facilitate too.

Speaker A: I love. That's awesome. You do both. Okay, that's really good. I love learning this because then I'm like, okay, who can I refer to her and how can I put her on my list to help me in the future?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We do all the training for community managers and retention leaders because I know

Speaker A: a lot of people and I talk to a lot of people and they're. I always am asking, what is it you need help with? And sometimes I hear these and I like to know who I can send them to. So that's good. What advice would you give a subscription company or a membership company or somebody that's just getting started trying to explore the idea of using comm community, get

Speaker C: clear on the cause and the culture, those two things first. And then the other two pillars are communication and connection. And so the communication piece, people are really good at outgoing communication. They're really good at the megaphone. But the most important part when you are starting early is the mailbox, which is inviting people to talk to you, hearing from your community. And I think oftentimes people think it's going to be the, um, engagement, the conversation piece that's happening among community members, or the connection piece, which those are really valuable. Don't get me wrong. In the beginning, our communities are smaller and we feel discouraged when there's not a lot of chatter, when there's not a lot of engagement happening in the community. But this is the golden time. This is where you can build one on one intimate relationships with people, where you can ask them questions, get to know your avatar, if you will, really intimately to help craft a better program, better marketing message, a better experience for your future members. Like, take advantage of that completely and don't worry so much about, you know, having all these structured activities to try and get your engagement up. Because at the end of the day, I always say engagement is not the metric you need to track. It's progress. And so we want to find ways for people to make progress. And in the early days, don't worry so much about high level engagement. Build those intimate connections, make sure that you're Going deep with these people, not for them to know you, but for you to get to know them. Because that'll serve you really well as you go to scale.

Speaker A: Oh, my gosh, I love it. One of the things that you said earlier, and this is going kind of out of subscription, membership, community talk, sort of, you said earlier something about, and I can't remember the exact language you use, but you did what other people thought you should do. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. So what would you say to yourself now that would help you when you thought I really should let all these people have input into my life? What would you say to yourself differently?

Speaker C: Yeah, I. I think for me, it comes down to really knowing your true identity. Because like I. I would say back then, I was having a identity crisis and identity battle, broken identity, whatever you want to call it, to where my identity was becoming. I am a successful entrepreneur, and if my identity is I'm a successful entrepreneur, then that means I need all of the accolades to confirm that identity. So if somebody says I can get a gold plaque on my wall because I've hit a certain revenue, or if I can, like, be in this program and be known in this program or make it on this stage, I need all of those things to confirm that identity in myself. Where I wish I could go back and shake that young mom at the time, I think at two years in entrepreneurship is when I had my first child and adopted our oldest. I wish I could just shake her and go, you are a child of God. Your identity has nothing to do with your success in entrepreneurship. That is just a way for you to steward your family financially. God will use that how he wants. But at the end of the day, like, the legacy that you leave and the impact that you leave is most importantly in your home, what's happening at your kitchen table. So open your eyes, look around and reprioritize your life. Because I was just so hung up on, you know, achieving the different things. And I had a few different things. I actually started. I had a marriage blog way back in the day. So that was like, one of my first. Yeah, like, way back in the day, that was one of our first things before I went into entrepreneurship full time. But I had all of these different businesses that I was working on, and I had one that was particularly successful, and I just didn't work hard at it. And I wish somebody would have just, uh, said, look at the ROI over here. Focus in on this one thing. Do this one thing well, and then, you know, let your Identity rest elsewhere. So you're not constantly grasping to feel like the best at everything.

Speaker A: No, I love that because it's so true. Like, I feel like other people sometimes we let other people. A lot of people do. And I know I have in the past until I really got down to knowing what I wanted, what my priorities were. Other people would sway me, even though the point of who am I? Right? Like, I'd be like, oh, that's not what I thought last week.

Speaker C: But you got a point, right?

Speaker A: Uh, and I realized that it was just because I didn't really wasn't sticking with my identity of who I know myself to be in that season.

Speaker C: Yeah, your identity and your trajectory, like, your vision. And, uh, when we're not clear on the island we want to end up on, everybody can sell us on the fact that their island is the shiny one, the membership island, the course island, the brick and mortar island, the do it through webinars island. Like, everybody's trying to sell you as to the fact that what worked for them must work for you. And it's the way to succeed. And I think when you get really clear about a vision, what you realize as you also realize that you're capable of anything and way more than you can imagine, is that whichever island you want to land on, you can land on. But when you try to get to all six of them, you are going to get nowhere. So you just have to pick one, stick with the path, and trust that if you do the work, you will succeed at it. So I'm just going to pick my island that fits with my family, my lifestyle, my vision, my personality, how I want to run a business. I'm going to go towards that island within my constrained period of time, and I'm going to keep working at that until I succeed, because I know that I will. But the biggest thing that's going to keep us from succeeding in that is distraction. Going to try and, like, looking over and being like, oh, well, they're rowing towards that island, so I must be going to the wrong one.

Speaker A: I've lived there for five years, and I can. I can say now, like, I'm not there anymore. I. I've learned it all because I felt like I didn't know enough, right? I didn't know online business. I was a teacher, I was a therapist, I was a mom. I was all these other things, and there's so much out there. And a shiny object syndrome, um, is a thing or this made me know it. So I feel like I've taken all that knowledge now, and I've sat down and I threw it up on a wall of everything I thought I had to do or what everybody said. And I was like, how does it all fit together? And I realized it doesn't fit together because they're not me. But how can I take this part that feels good in this part and then that part? And that really is a nice feeling, if that makes sense these days.

Speaker C: Uh, yeah. I imagine you feel a lot lighter.

Speaker A: Oh, hugely lighter. And it's allowed me to get my work hours down so it's not six, seven days a week where the it's taking over at the expense of my family, my marriage, my health. I love these interviews because I'm like, okay. They either speak to me or coach me, or I'm like, oh, I'm doing okay right now. Yeah.

Speaker C: Well, you know, it's funny because one of the in person community workshops that I taught Dan Miller was there, who's a, uh, very successful entrepreneur, dear friend, unfortunately passed away this year. But Dan looked me in the eyes after, I think it was like day one of the presentation and we didn't know each other from Adam. And he looks me in the eyes and he says, protect your marriage. You are going to be a very successful businesswoman. And when that happens, your marriage is at risk. He's like, I've coached too many people through rocky marriages or divorces because they're very successful business women and they end up finding their validation there if they're not getting it in their marriage and then it destroys their marriage. And I was so grateful for that advice because my husband and I have always had a really rocky marriage. We don't have that, like, fairy tale. We had a fairy tale story until we got married. And then literally stuff hit the fan and things were awful and crazy. And we've been so grateful for, like, wisdom and counsel over the years, but having that person who was so much further ahead than me look me in the eyes and tell me that just kept in the back of my mind that at the end of the day, if I have all the business accolades and my marriage is destroyed, which is, you know, for me, I think, uh, a destroyed marriage is also a way for the devil in a lot of ways to get to the kids. Like, there's so many ripple effects that come from it, that that just became a priority and we haven't always done it well. Right. But that commitment has been there. And I know so many people who didn't have that wisdom early on and who didn't have that support. And, you know, they're. They're dealing with the aftermath of divorce, which is so hard and so challenging and the right choice, you know, for a lot of people. But yeah, so I'm just so grateful for that, like, early on wisdom of, you know, when you're an entrepreneurial woman, your marriage is at a. An increased risk statistically than other marriages, 1,000%.

Speaker A: And I love that you had that advice early on. And like, you, like, my marriage has been up and down. I'm the ex. Angriest wife on earth, self professed for about a decade. I could say we're doing pretty good right now. Like, pretty good. So. But, you know, life happens sometimes, and it is that. But I think we can get into as entrepreneurs, seasons where we think it's just a season. I'm just busy for this season, so I'm going to neglect my marriage. I'm going to neglect this or that, and I'm just going to push it. But then what happens? That season doesn't end or it lasts a lot longer than we thought. And then we wake up and we're like, wait, what happened? Why are. Why is everybody upset? Because I told you for this season. But, uh, you can't do one without working on the other. Now, it doesn't have to be in perfect balance, because I don't believe in that, but I do believe you have to have some type of rhythm in your life and your relationships and your business to thrive like you have to.

Speaker C: Yeah. And I think in my case, you know, there would be seasons that just stacked onto seasons. But I think more than anything, the damage done in that season, the disconnection that happens, the neglect that happens, takes so much effort and time to repair. That if you just go back to trying to maintain a marriage or maintain a relationship with your kids, you can't. Because the foundation that you had before that season of neglect and abandonment, in a way, is crumbled. So you're trying to maintain your business that you've just worked hard to build while rebuilding a foundation so that you can have reconnection with the people that you love. And for me, like, I think it's just like, it's just like business. It's a lot easier to keep a customer than it is to get a new one. Well, it's a lot easier to maintain connection than it is to rebuild it from the ground up because you keep destroying it.

Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. That is so good. That's a fan. You need to quote that everywhere.

Speaker C: Put it everywhere.

Speaker A: Uh, quote that everywhere. It's true. And when you're thinking about building communities for our business, I think we don't often think about, and I love it switched here. We don't think about building the community in our home.

Speaker C: No.

Speaker A: Right. Because it's taken for granted or we're irritated with them or we're this, we don't strategize how to build that community in our home. And we really need to because they could slip away faster than any of them.

Speaker C: Yeah. I think my husband and I have talked about what is our family culture. Right. And uh, what is our family purpose and leveraging the strategy that we use for building communities with businesses in our home. Because I, I think it's, I think it is, it's something that, when it happens every day and it's, um, in front of you all the time, it's the first thing to get neglected. Because in the back of our mind we say, well, they'll always be there, they'll always love me, they're always going to support me. Until they don't. And we don't realize that, you know, we've, we've neglected them all this time. And I think, you know, unfortunately, when we have young moms, and oftentimes young moms are the ones who are pulled into entrepreneurship because it's like, oh, you, you're away from your kids all the time as a teacher, like, hey, start an uh, entrepreneurial career and come home and you'll get all this time with your kids. And so they get lured into this idea of like not just being a stay at home mom or not working that job that makes them drop their kids at daycare. And then what they do, what they don't realize is they end up getting sucked into 60, 80 hour a week something. And the exact opposite of what they wanted is happening. And I just keep thinking like for me, our kids, you know, are only young for so long. Then you have many, many, many years to build after that. And also I've stopped comparing my business success to so many people because if you look at so many of the business people who are very, very successful, who I very much love and admire and I think are absolutely wonderful, they don't have children where they have one child or their children are significantly older. They're out of the home already. It's not very often that you see a successful businesswoman, extremely successful businesswoman, who has multiple young children at home. You just don't see it. But yet we're being coached by people who don't have that additional commitment. And it's not just an extra thing. It is the thing. It is the thing that we are called to when we have children. We have now signed up to say, priority number one, God, priority number two, husband priority number three, like discipling these children. Right. Like that's. That's my priority. But when somebody else. Their top three priorities aren't the same as yours. It's very challenging to be coached and led by them and try and model what they're doing.

Speaker A: I love that because it leads to a lot of self doubt. Oh, yeah, right. And it goes back to identity and knowing who you are, what you want to accept and what you don't. Because especially when somebody knows more than you, has achieved more than you, and you're looking at them for advice and they give it through the lens of what you're saying. Not knowing about the mom and the young kids and those priorities and taking those into consideration. The advice that you get is what leads to the self doubt and then you have to learn how to overcome that. Right?

Speaker C: Yeah. And it's always balancing those decisions. You know, it's the same thing like with public school versus, you know, homeschool. We homeschool and I tell people that impacts my business. I am not as successful in business because I choose to homeschool my kids. But you know, for us, that is a priority so that we prioritize that over the business success. And it took me a long time to get comfortable with knowing I could make more money if I just made some different choices or neglected some other things and really, uh, you know, having more of a kingdom driven perspective that's, you know, eternally driven and really going like, what really matters in the end. Right. And I think part of that comes from, for me, just like, literally reading the Bible, like not Bible studies, but like just reading the Bible front to back, remembering the stories of the storehouses. Like the man who built the storehouses because he had all the extra, you know, crap, and God killed him the next day. The moment he finished building those storehouses, he was dead. Right. And I'm like, oh, yeah, this isn't the point. This isn't the point to, uh, hit the $10 million mark or get the plaque or whatever. And people can have that kind of success and strive for that if that is what they want. But I think at the end of the day, it's a matter of really being intentional about our priorities and being okay with the fact that that means we're gonna have to let some things Go and sacrifice some success.

Speaker A: Yeah. And redefine that success. Because success is like, I can tell already your success is how you show up in your home and with your kids and the rest is great and drives you and you want that, but it's not your only anymore.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And I will say, like, I just, I was just messaging with Amy Porterfield's team actually about something and they were like, how long are you going to be on, um, maternity leave? And I was like, I'm not actually, I don't take maternity leave. Like that's very unhealthy. And I was like, no, they're super sweet. But I was like, look, I love to work and I have tried maternity leave. It drove me absolutely insane because I wasn't getting to use that outlet. So what we do and what we've done with this baby on the way is we've batched all of our podcast episodes through 2024. We have uh, you know, we're not going to be focused on sales or anything like that. I'm just going to get to show up and serve my clients and my group program and my private clients. And that to me is life giving. And so we get to, you know, do this how we want without having guilt. And I think a lot of moms would feel guilt about that. But because I know myself so well and I know my family would not get the best of me if I was not getting some work time that we just, you know, we just know that I'm, I'm probably gonna have a baby and the next day I'll be laying in bed and you responded to emails because that gives me life.

Speaker A: Right. I love you said that because you just validated me and I don't think anybody else has understood. Like I did the whole stay at home mom thing for a while because I have a special needs kid and I had three, three and a half and under and just thought that was the way it was go. But I will tell you, I was a terrible stay at home mom. Not that I was terrible to my kids or I didn't do all the things because I did. I mean I did all the mom things over because you know, I wasn't achieving anywhere else. I might as well be at that. I volunteered everywhere, ran myself ragged doing it. But I was not happy. Happy as I could be because I found like I have to have something for me.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: Whatever that is. And I ended up teaching at the kids school so they would go to work with me and then they'd come home with me, which worked out great because I felt like I had something in between that was for me, even though it was 20 more kids. But when I went back to grad school to be a counselor, finally I realized that. That I was that person that needed some outlet. Right. I wish I had realized then that I really only needed that outlet five hours a week, and I'd have been fine.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Versus, like, you get nothing, Amy.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Ah, I lost myself in it. Like, I didn't even know what brought me joy once.

Speaker C: Yeah, I. I think it's so common. And, you know, I feel the same way oftentimes about hobbies. Like, you know, I. I wish I had hobbies. My husband's, like, golfing and doing all the things, and he jokes, he's like, I really want you to take up golfing. I'm like, I don't have time for my own hobbies. I'm not going to be taking up yours anytime soon. Uh, but I. I realize that my work is a hobby. My work is something that I enjoy and get a lot of life from and. And God's leveraging it, uh, in some pretty cool ways. And I get to use my giftedness. And I think at the end of the day, you know, especially American culture has really made work this negative term like, oh, you shouldn't have to work, and, oh, my gosh, is it Friday yet? And, oh, I got a case of the Mondays and all of that stuff that you see on sitcoms and here on the radio station or whatever it is, it is feeding these negative thoughts that steal the joy out of producing work. And the reality is, is when God created Adam, he created him to work, and that was actually before the fall. So work is a part of who we are. It's a part of what we're supposed to do. Whether that work is in our home with our kids, whether it's, you know, a job fulfilling outside of the home, whether it's volunteer work that you're doing. We are created to be workers, and that is a good and joyous thing. And when the joy is ripped out of that, because people have told us that we should hate work and we should dread it, and you should be, you know, just watching the clock till five or can't wait till Friday. It. It's that mindset that I think has really, like, just drug the life out of what could just be a part of who we are and what we do and be really fulfilling for most people.

Speaker A: Well, I love that. So I'm going to end on that. Note because I think I resonate with so much of what you say and this is why I like doing that, just to get to know you better. I've always like wanted to do that with you. So I thank you for being here and just sharing your wisdom and your knowledge with everyone. Tell everybody how they can find you really quick and then we'll also put it in the show notes.

Speaker C: Yeah, so the best way to connect with me more is my podcast Community creators with Shannon. So if you're interested in community or if you have online business, come hang out over there. Otherwise, hang out on Instagram shannaspeaks and you can go to shannalyn.com to learn more about me and what I do.

Speaker A: Awesome. Well, thanks again for being here.

Speaker C: Thanks for having me.

Speaker A: You're welcome.

Speaker B: Thanks for tuning in to Couch Time. This is Amy Wine and I hope you've enjoyed today's episode and gained some valuable insights that you can apply to your own life, relationships and business. Remember, remember, you are capable of achieving anything you set your mind to and

Speaker A: I believe in you.

Speaker B: Keep showing up, keep taking action, and keep striving for greatness. If you enjoyed the show, don't forget to subscribe. I would be forever grateful if you could please leave a rating and a review and share it with someone who you think could benefit from these conversations. And don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you you never miss an episode. Until next time. Keep living your life authentically and intentionally on purpose and keep thriving in all areas of your life. Thanks for listening and I'll see you on the next episode of Couch Time with Amy Wine.