The Leadership Power of Listening: How Enhanced Listening Skills Can Transform Your Team | Ep. #126

Speaker A: Welcome to the deep dive. We're here to take piles of research, interesting source materials, and boil them down into, well, uh, actionable insights for leaders like you.

Speaker B: That's the goal.

Speaker A: And today we're tackling something that honestly sounds a bit basic sometimes. Listening.

Speaker B: Right. It gets dismissed as a soft skill, maybe common sense.

Speaker A: But the sources we dug into, they frame it very differently. They make this compelling case that actually enhanced listening isn't soft at all. It's, uh, a, it's a management superpower and a financially critical one.

Speaker B: It really is. The research shows this huge gap, right, between what managers think they're hearing and what actually lands what's truly understood.

Speaker A: Like a chasm.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And it's not just about, you know, hurt feelings or bad morale, though. That's part of it. It hits the bottom line hard.

Speaker A: So our mission in this deep dive is to get past just passively hearing things.

Speaker B: Right. We want to pull out the real frameworks, the practical steps you need to develop, well, genuine enhanced listening skills. Skills for today's leaders.

Speaker A: Okay, let's get right into it then, with what the sources call the main conflict, the big psychological barrier.

Speaker B: Which is.

Speaker A: It's the desire for control. It seems most managers, well, uh, most people really, we just rather be talking.

Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. Talking feels powerful, doesn't it? It feels like you're in control. You're setting the agenda, delivering the info, steering the ship. Precisely. And you get to avoid maybe the vulnerability of just listening. Because listening, that means you might hear

Speaker A: something uncomfortable, something you don't like, or something that challenges your plan.

Speaker B: Exactly. Or maybe just something complex or frankly uninteresting to you personally. But important organizationally, talking avoids all that.

Speaker A: And that avoidance, that, um, preference for output over intake, it's incredibly costly. We're not just talking wasted minutes here.

Speaker B: No, no. True. Active listening, the kind we're aiming for, it demands, according to sources, three things that are tough in a fast paced world. Awareness.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Energy. It actually takes effort.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And this is the big one, humility. A deep well of it.

Speaker A: Humility that feels key to overcoming that control instinct you mentioned.

Speaker B: It's the key. The research suggests leaders who practice these enhanced skills, they're not just, you know, nicer managers. They're building real trust and they're stopping huge amounts of financial loss.

Speaker A: Okay, so let's talk about those losses.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: Because the data points here really shift this from nice to have to must have. It makes the case for listening as a hard financial necessity.

Speaker B: Right. Let's start with the positive outcome first. Maybe the foundation. Okay. Listening builds trust. Simple as that. It strengthens those core relationships with your team. When people feel genuinely heard, their engagement goes way up.

Speaker A: That makes sense. That's the cultural bedrock, right? For any team that actually performs well, absolutely.

Speaker B: That's the prerequisite. But if you need the hard business case, the dollars and cents argument for, like, why this is so urgent now, it comes from the financial data.

Speaker A: The consequences of not listening.

Speaker B: Exactly. The failure to really listen, to make sure information is actually understood, processed. It leads to these massive, often hidden financial drains.

Speaker A: Okay, I have to jump in here because this next number, when I saw it in the sources, it really floored me. We talk about soft skills being invaluable, but they actually put a price tag on bad listening. A huge one.

Speaker B: Get ready for it. The total estimated cost just from misunderstanding in the companies. They looked at $37 billion.

Speaker A: Billion with a B.

Speaker B: With a B. 37 billion.

Speaker A: Wow. Okay, let that sink in.

Speaker B: And this isn't just some wild guess. It's from a specific survey. Right. 400 corporations in the US and the UK. Big ones too. Companies with 100,000 employees or more.

Speaker A: So this is in theory. It's measured loss in major organizations.

Speaker B: Real systemic failure.

Speaker A: And what is that? $37 billion? What kind of cost is it? The sources, men. It wasn't people doing the wrong thing necessarily.

Speaker B: Right. It's categorized mostly as errors of omission. It's team members misunderstanding or being misinformed about really fundamental things.

Speaker A: Like what?

Speaker B: Company policies, business processes, even their core job functions. Or, you know, a mix of all three.

Speaker A: So an error of omission is like forgetting something critical because you didn't really hear it.

Speaker B: Exactly. A key step gets missed, a task doesn't get done. Maybe a regulatory filing is forgotten, but because the initial instructions or the update about it were only half heard, not fully processed.

Speaker A: Can you give a concrete example? Like how does that play out day to day?

Speaker B: Sure. Think about, um, maybe HR rolls out a complex new policy. Let's say parental leave. A manager's in the briefing, but they're multitasking. Maybe checking email, kind of half listening, what we'll call level I listening later. They catch the basics but miss a crucial detail, like the 60 day notice period for filing the paperwork.

Speaker A: Um, okay.

Speaker B: Later, a team member asks about leave. The manager gives them the incomplete info they absorbed. The team member misses the deadline.

Speaker A: And then you've got chaos.

Speaker B: Maybe legal issues, admin nightmares. Definitely lower morale. And that initial failure to listen to the details, that's the error of Omission. It directly impacts job functions, business processes.

Speaker A: So it's not just interpersonal friction. It hits the actual mechanics of the business policies, processes, the operational foundations.

Speaker B: Yeah. And if you break that huge $37 billion down, the average cost per company in that survey, an estimated $62.4 million per year.

Speaker A: $62 million per company annually.

Speaker B: Annually just gone wasted because people aren't taking the time to ensure real clarity, real understanding in their communications.

Speaker A: That's staggering. And they even drill it down further right to the individual level.

Speaker B: They do. They calculated the cumulative cost per worker per year just from lost productivity due to these communication barriers. And that number is $26,042.

Speaker A: Over $26,000 per person every year, wasted because of miscommunication.

Speaker B: Yeah, it really brings it home, doesn't it? Poor listening isn't just an abstract problem. It directly hits every single team member's potential productivity. So if you're a manager listening to this, improving your listening skills, that's like instantly tackling one of the biggest hidden costs in your whole department.

Speaker A: And we have to layer onto this the modern context. Right. The sources talk about digital strain.

Speaker B: Oh, definitely.

Speaker A: All the emails, the slack messages pinging constantly, the back to back zoom calls. It makes it harder to practice that real active listening.

Speaker B: It absolutely does. We're constantly in this state of partial attention. And the sources argue this just makes mastering listening even more urgent now, especially

Speaker A: with hybrid and remote teams, maybe.

Speaker B: Exactly. You lose so many of those little informal cues. You can't just catch someone's body lang language down the hall to clarify something they mumbled in a meeting.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: An email has no tone, no non verbals on a video call. The temptation to multitask is huge. So that conscious effort, the awareness, the energy, the humility we talked about becomes even more vital.

Speaker A: So mastering listening is almost like the antidote to all that digital noise and distraction.

Speaker B: That's a great way to put it. It's the way you cut through the noise and avoid contributing to that $37 billion problem.

Speaker A: Okay, who. So if that's the why the massive cost, and we need a framework for the how, how do we actually move from just hearing noise to actively listening?

Speaker B: Right. If the cost is the motivation, the three levels of listening framework from the source material gives us the roadmap. It's a way to think about it, reflect on our own habits and commit to getting better.

Speaker A: A path from just filtering noise to actually leading through listening.

Speaker B: Exactly. And the key idea is that listening isn't just on or off. It's not binary. It's a spectrum of awareness.

Speaker A: So let's start at level I. The most basic, the most common, and unfortunately, where the sources say most managers most of the time.

Speaker B: Yep, that's level I. Listening to respond.

Speaker A: Okay, listening to respond. What does that mean in practice?

Speaker B: Well, on the surface, it sounds okay. You're focusing on the content, the words being spoken. But the real action, the trap, is what's happening inside your own head.

Speaker A: That internal monologue. What's going on there? For a level I listener, they're paying

Speaker B: a lot of attention to their own thoughts, their judgment about the speaker, the topic, even themselves. They hear the words, sure, but they're instantly filtering everything through me.

Speaker A: How does this affect me? What smart thing can I say next? Does this make me look good or bad?

Speaker B: Exactly. That's the self reference trap. And you see it in their behavior, Right? We've all been there. Someone cuts you off mid sentence to

Speaker A: say, oh, that reminds me of this time I had a similar problem.

Speaker B: Precisely. That urge to jump in with your own related story instead of just letting the other person finish their thoughts. Classic level one. Your main goal inside is prepping your reply, not absorbing their meaning.

Speaker A: The conversation turns into a competition for airtime.

Speaker B: Yeah. Or just waiting for your turn to talk.

Speaker A: Okay, so to lead better, to avoid those costly mistakes, we have to move up to level two. Listening for understanding.

Speaker B: Right. And level two requires a really significant shift away from that self focus. It's about going beyond just the words on the surface.

Speaker A: Deeper.

Speaker B: Yeah. You're trying to figure out what the person is saying underneath the words. What are the real underlying issues here? And maybe most importantly, what does this person actually need?

Speaker A: That feels like a big jump cognitively, emotionally, how do you practically listen for need instead of just content? Like if someone's complaining about a policy.

Speaker B: Okay, good example. The level I listener hears, this policy sucks. Change it. Pretty simple, right? The Level 2 listener hears the frustration. Sure. But wonders why. Okay, this person sounds frustrated. Maybe because they feel powerless or unseen by this policy. The underlying need might not actually be a policy change.

Speaker A: It, um, might be.

Speaker B: It might be needing to feel validated or needing clearer communication about why the policy exists. Or maybe they need coaching on how to work within the policy effectively. M Level 2 listens for that emotional subtext.

Speaker A: And the sources really stress this. The speaker can actually feel the difference. When someone's listening at level two, they feel truly listened to.

Speaker B: Absolutely. You go from being just a sounding board to being an active partner in their attempt to communicate. That's where that trust starts to build.

Speaker A: But there's another level for real leadership, especially in complex situations. Hybrid teams, all the chaos.

Speaker B: Uh-huh.

Speaker A: The sources say you need level three conscious listening.

Speaker B: That's the peak.

Speaker A: Conscious listening. It sounds intense. The definition is listening with all your senses, intuition, your whole body, trying to get the big picture. That sounds almost impossible for a busy manager juggling a million things. How is that practical?

Speaker B: Yeah, that's a fair challenge. Level three isn't about trying to consciously track, like, 10 different data streams at once. It's more about developing a kind of soft focus.

Speaker A: Soft focus?

Speaker B: Yeah, you're aware of the environment, the group dynamics, and the individual speaking all, um, sort of simultaneously. Not scrutiniz each one, but sensing the whole feel. You notice the shift in energy in the room, not just the words someone says.

Speaker A: Okay, so in a meeting context, what does that look like?

Speaker B: A level three listener isn't just hearing, say, Bob's objection to the project timeline. They're also noticing. Hmm. Hm. The usually talkative folks on Zoom are silent today. Or the project lead looks really tense. Their body language is closed off. Or maybe there's just a general feeling of fatigue or resistance in the whole group. They're listening to the impact of the environment, the group dynamics.

Speaker A: Because those things give context to Bob's specific comment.

Speaker B: Exactly. Bob's comment might just be the symptom, the little flag popping up indicating a bigger, maybe unsmoken issue within the team dynamic or the project's structure.

Speaker A: So level three is required for leaders because they need that systemic view, especially when groups are involved or things are ambiguous, like in hybrid settings.

Speaker B: Precisely. You need level three to really diagnose what's happening beneath the surface, to catch those small issues before they blow up into those massive multimillion dollar problems.

Speaker A: Okay, so the three levels give us the what and the why. Now let's get into the how. The sources offer some really practical, actionable steps for listening deeply day to day, starting with just setting the stage correctly, cultivating presence and tone.

Speaker B: Yeah, your attitude going into the conversation is huge. The sources emphasize this. Managers need to consciously take a moment, like 30 seconds, to shift into listening mode. Especially if you just came from a stressful meeting. You gotta reset, Reset.

Speaker A: And that starts with humility. Right, Right. That idea again. You can't walk in assuming you already know everything, which, let's be honest, is often the default for busy leaders.

Speaker B: It is. But a good manager, the sources say, understands they can learn just as much, maybe more, from their team members as they can teach them.

Speaker A: So it's a mindset shift before the talking even starts. M, you're there to receive valuable intel, not just dispense wisdom.

Speaker B: Exactly. You're gathering primary source data on the state of your part of the business, which leads directly to needing full presence physically and mentally.

Speaker A: And the sources had that great quote from M. Scott Peck. Uh, what was it?

Speaker B: True?

Speaker A: Listening requires setting aside oneself. Setting aside oneself, that's powerful. What does that look like practically in an office or in the video call?

Speaker B: Practically. It means putting the phone away.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Closing the laptop lid and making sure the other person sees you do it. It signals you have my attention.

Speaker A: And on a video call, close those

Speaker B: extra tabs, stop the side chats. Give your visual focus entirely to the person on the screen. And mentally, setting aside oneself is that active effort to silence your own internal chatter. Stop prepping your brilliant rebuttal. Stop relating it all back to you.

Speaker A: Which connects to that intentional shift. Stop trying to figure out what you'll say next. The goal has to be understanding them, not just waiting for your turn to reply.

Speaker B: Yes, that single mental switch just knocks out level I thinking right away.

Speaker A: And then there's patience. This seems like where a lot of us, especially under pressure, fall down. The sources are really clear on this.

Speaker B: Don't interrupt, don't talk over people, and please don't finish their sentences for them.

Speaker A: Let's talk about the silence piece. We hate silence, right? It feels awkward, inefficient. We rush to fill it, but the sources say patience here is vital.

Speaker B: It's absolutely critical. Research shows that pauses, even slightly longer ones, 3, 4, 5 seconds. That's often the moment right before someone shares the really important thing.

Speaker A: The vulnerability, the key insight.

Speaker B: Exactly the thing they were hesitant to say. If you jump in at 1.5 seconds because the silence feels weird, you might literally be cutting off the exact piece of information that could prevent that $26,000 misunderstanding down the line. Let them find their words, let them use the space.

Speaker A: Okay, so we've set the stage. We're present, we're patient. But then there's this listening illusion, looking like you're listening versus actually listening. And people can tell the difference.

Speaker B: They always can, usually through our non verbals. Right? If you're just sitting there, eyes glazed over, nodding mindlessly, like a bobblehead, guilty. We've all done it, but it screams I'm not really here. Real listening needs active engagement signals. Small, genuine things like a focused expression, an appropriate nod, not just constant bobbing. Maybe a small verbal cue like mhm or I See? Or okay, go on just showing you're

Speaker A: tracking with them, which leads naturally into empathy. The sources stress this, but how do you practice empathy without getting totally swamped by the other person's emotions, especially if they're really upset?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's a balance. Empathy in practice means allowing yourself to connect with what they're feeling. If you're anxious about a deadline, you acknowledge and register that anxiety in yourself. Briefly. If they're proud, you reflect some of that pride.

Speaker A: But you don't get swept away.

Speaker B: Right. You stay grounded enough to still think clearly, lead strategically, but you're receptive enough to connect, to validate their feeling.

Speaker A: Okay, validation. This seems like a really important distinction the sources make, one that trips up managers. Validating versus agreeing.

Speaker B: Huge point. You absolutely must validate, honor, respect what your team member is saying and feeling, even if you completely disagree with their conclusion or their proposed solution.

Speaker A: So many managers think validating means caving in.

Speaker B: Exactly. It's a common mistake. They think, if I say, I understand why you're frustrated, I'm admitting the policy is wrong and I have to change it. That's not true.

Speaker A: So what do you say?

Speaker B: You can say something like, okay, it sounds like you poured a ton of effort into this, and based on that, I can absolutely see why this policy feels unfair to you right now. You've validated their feeling and their experience

Speaker A: without promising to rewrite the rulebook.

Speaker B: Precisely. Disagreement doesn't make their feeling or their perspective invalid. You just acknowledge its validity for them.

Speaker A: Okay. And then tying back to level three. We need to read the whole picture. Pay attention to the nonverbals.

Speaker B: Constantly, actively look for the gestures, the facial expressions, the posture. These give massive clues to the feelings behind the words. Especially today when people are often careful, maybe coached about their workplace language.

Speaker A: So if someone says, yeah, no, I'm totally fine with the workload, really. But they're sitting, stiff as a board, jaw clenched, avoiding eye contact.

Speaker B: The Level 3 listener knows something's up. The words say one thing, the body screams another. That contradiction, that's critical data.

Speaker A: It tells you the conversation isn't over, even if they just said it was right.

Speaker B: It tells you there's more beneath the surface you need to gently explore. You can't just take the I'm fine at face value and move on.

Speaker A: Alright, last stage. We've listened presence fully, patiently, empathetically watching the non verbals. Now we need to make sure we actually got it right. We need to confirm understanding.

Speaker B: Yes, through summarizing and asking better questions.

Speaker A: Let's Start with summarizing. What's the function there?

Speaker B: Two key things, really. First, it proves you were actually paying attention. Saying back what you heard builds massive trust, like, okay, they really were listening. And second, it gives them an immediate chance to correct you before a misunderstanding takes root and turns into one of those costly errors of omission. You check your understanding out loud.

Speaker A: And this summary needs to come from a place of. Yeah, not being defensive.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Critical listening well, means truly considering their viewpoint, even if it's critical of something you did or support. So if they criticize a process you

Speaker A: implemented, your instinct might be to defend it.

Speaker B: Right. But your job in that moment isn't defense, it's understanding. Understand why they see it that way, what the impact is. That's the humility of level two and three. Again.

Speaker A: Okay, now questions. This feels like where the manager shifts from pure listening back towards leading, but based on what they heard, and the quality of the question matters immensely.

Speaker B: The sources warn against simple yes, no questions. Why? Because they shut down insight. They close off the conversation.

Speaker A: They often lead to the answer you already expect. Maybe.

Speaker B: Yeah, it reinforces level I, thinking you're just confirming your own hypothesis.

Speaker A: Let's use that great example from the sources. The level I manager, worried about a

Speaker B: project, asks, are you overwhelmed with this project? Simple yes or no. And often people say no, even if they are right to seem capable.

Speaker A: Right. But the level 2 or 3 manager

Speaker B: asks, how has this project been feeling for you?

Speaker A: Big, uh, difference.

Speaker B: Huge. Look at the kind of answers that invites, how has it been feeling?

Speaker A: It opens the door for much richer language. They might say it feels, uh, kind of disjointed or exciting, but the pressure feels intense or, or honestly, a bit repetitive.

Speaker B: Exactly. And those answers are goldmines compared to a simple yes or no. They give you immediate clues about where support might be needed or where communication is breaking down or where motivation is lagging.

Speaker A: Okay. And the final, final check to make sure you're truly aligned before moving on the verification technique.

Speaker B: This is non negotiable for preventing miscommunication turning into liability.

Speaker A: So you summarize your interpretation first.

Speaker B: Right. Okay. So if I'm hearing you correctly, it sounds like the high stakes are okay, maybe even motivating. But it's the disjointed communication between the design and development teams that's creating the real friction and anxiety.

Speaker A: And then the crucial part, you ask,

Speaker B: does that sound right or have I captured that correctly? You explicitly ask for confirmation, because if

Speaker A: you just assume you understood, you risk disaster.

Speaker B: They might walk Away thinking they communicated clearly, while you've logged a totally different understanding in your head. And that gap, that's where the $26,000 mistakes are born. This final check ensures you're both leaving the conversation on the same page. It closes the loop with respect.

Speaker A: Wow. Okay. So we've seen the staggering financial cost of not listening. We've explored three levels. Responding, understanding, conscious listening. And we've walked through the practical steps. Presence, humility, patience, empathy, validation, non verbals, summarizing, open questions, verification. A lot it is. But the path forward seems clear from the sources. Building these enhanced skills. It just takes commitment. Commitment to being more aware and consistent. Intentional practice. Moving up those levels deliberately.

Speaker B: Yeah, it takes real intention. You have to actively decide to override that default setting of just waiting to talk, of wanting control. It's a daily choice really. Choosing humility, choosing to truly receive information, even maybe especially when you feel rushed.

Speaker A: And the sources suggest it doesn't have to be overwhelming. Like commit to just one real level two or level three conversation each day.

Speaker B: Exactly. Just one conversation where you consciously focus on understanding the need, sensing the subtext, verifying your understanding. Doing that consistently starts to rewire your habits.

Speaker A: Which brings us to the challenge for you, the listener. Take a moment and reflect. Where do you typically operate? Are you mostly stuck in level one, Filtering everything through yourself? Interrupting, missing details?

Speaker B: Or have you genuinely made it to level two? Sometimes really trying to understand the underlying issues, the needs behind the words?

Speaker A: Or maybe in certain situations you reach level three, sensing the whole picture, the group dynamic, the environment, the unspoken context.

Speaker B: That self assessment is the starting point for improvement. And building on that powerful idea that true listening requires setting aside oneself, we wanted to leave you with one final thought to chew on.

Speaker A: We established that the big barrier is usually our own desire for control, our aversion to discomfort or vulnerability. So the question for you is what specific situation maybe coming up this week are you prepared to walk into with, let's call it radical humility? Where can you consciously prioritize learning from someone over instructing them just to practice elevating your listening towards level three.

Speaker B: It could be anything, couldn't it? A tricky performance review, a one on one with someone who seems disengaged. Even just the next team meeting. Find that opportunity. Commit to holding the space, resisting that urge to jump in or problem solve immediately.

Speaker A: Set yourself aside.

Speaker B: Set yourself aside and just see what insights emerge, what you learn when you truly consciously listen. You might be surprised.

Speaker A: And that's our deep dive for today, we hope. Digging into the real cost of miscommunication. The framework of the three levels and these practical steps gives you some concrete tools.

Speaker B: Tools to help stop that $37 billion drain, maybe starting in your own team. And more importantly, tools to build that essential trust.

Speaker A: Absolutely. The insights we discussed, particularly that three level framework, were drawn from materials provided by new level work.

Speaker B: Right. They're a company really focused on building exceptional leaders, helping managers develop skills just like these.

Speaker A: So if you're looking for more support or resources on leadership development, definitely check out what new level work has to offer.

Speaker B: Worth a look.

Speaker A: Thanks for diving deep with us today. Be aware, listen fully, and we'll catch you next time.