London's Leadership Podcast · 2024-07-18 · 23 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
25 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Stan Slovin draws on three decades in wealth management and his recent book "Better Listening: The Secret to Improving Your Professional and Personal Life" to address a critical leadership and personal communication gap. The core problem: we live in a "response society" where people interrupt, think about their next point while others speak, and rush to offer solutions before truly understanding what's being shared. Slovin identifies three foundational practices: active listening (being present, maintaining eye contact, minimizing distractions), reflective listening (pausing before responding, asking clarifying questions like "Tell me more" or "Help me understand that"), and empathy (recognizing whether someone needs to be heard, helped, or hugged rather than assuming). He emphasizes that great leaders listen to understand, not to respond. A striking example involves a CEO who, after reading Slovin's book, paused during his daughter's complaint and asked open-ended questions instead of offering advice - she responded with a 15-minute conversation and a hug, thanking him for finally listening. The distinction between surface-level responding and deeper exploration through acknowledgment and clarification is crucial for both professional relationships in wealth management and personal relationships with family. Slovin argues that respecting someone's need to be heard, rather than immediately jumping to problem-solve, builds trust and strengthens communication across all contexts.
Active listening (being present with eye contact and focus), reflective listening (pausing to clarify and acknowledge before responding), and empathy (understanding what someone needs - to be heard, helped, or hugged - rather than jumping to solutions).
Leaders often fall into a response mode where they push their own agenda and try to solve problems quickly, rather than stepping back to truly understand what their employees or team members are thinking and what they actually need from the conversation.
Instead of immediately offering advice, pause and ask open-ended questions like "Tell me more" or "Help me understand that better," then acknowledge what you've heard before offering your perspective or solution.
Asking "what else?" signals that you're genuinely interested in understanding the full picture rather than rushing to respond, which allows the other person to share deeper concerns and feel truly heard.
Good leaders listen to respond (preparing their next point), while great leaders listen to understand (genuinely trying to grasp what the other person is experiencing and needs), which leads to more meaningful conversations and better relationships.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode is dominated by well-worn listening platitudes (active listening, eye contact, nodding, empathy, open-ended questions) with almost no novel claims per minute. The only marginally actionable original contribution is the 'what's most important to you' relationship question near the end, but the bulk of the runtime is filler, host self-reflection, and restatement of the same few points.
there's the act of listening tip, which is being in the present, you know, focusing really trying to get distractions away, putting that self one way, not looking at the TV or looking around
we're all on a surface respond society
The content is almost entirely recycled from mainstream leadership and self-help literature - active vs. reflective listening, empathy, the listen-to-respond vs. listen-to-understand binary - with no contrarian or first-principles angles introduced. Nothing here would surprise anyone who has read a standard leadership book.
some people listen to respond versus listening to understand. Good leaders listen to respond. Great leaders listen to understand
empty their bucket
Stan Slovin has 30 years of real-world wealth management experience and has written a book on the topic, making him a genuine practitioner rather than a pure talking head; however, he presents primarily as a book-promoting thought leader rather than a senior B2B operator with verifiable scale-up credentials directly relevant to a B2B audience.
he's also in a rock and roll band from Chicago. He tours around the States teaching leadership and he recently wrote a book called Better Listening
I'm a CEO. I'm on a plane. I'm reading it. Thanks for the great tips
Evidence is limited to a single unnamed CEO/daughter dinner anecdote and generic social scenarios (soccer parents committee, dinner party); there are no named companies, no data, no research citations, no dollar figures or measurable outcomes anywhere in the episode.
A father CEO sends me and says, hey, Stan, I read your book. Okay, I'm a CEO. I'm on a plane.
She goes on for fifteen minutes, gets up from the dinner table, turns around, hugs or down, and says that thank you for finally listening to me
The host spends substantial airtime on extended self-disclosure and personal anecdotes rather than asking sharp follow-up questions, often answers his own prompts before the guest can respond, and never challenges a single claim; the interaction functions as a soft book-promotion chat rather than a probing interview.
my friends who know me are listening to this thinking, oh, it's good that he's doing this because he needs to. He needs to work on that himself
I'm going to write that down. I'm going to start building that into my conversations
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
1 - > Hello everyone, and welcome back to London's Leadership Podcast today with Stan Slavin, 2 - > who has been in wealth management for over thirty years. A cool fun fact 3 - > is that he's also in a rock and roll band from Chicago. He tours 4 - > around the States teaching leadership and he recently wrote a book called Better Listening, 5 - > The Secret to Improving Your professional and Personal Life. So we're just gonna have 6 - > a little conversation about what it takes to be a better listener.
But before 7 - > we do that, Stan, why don't you tell us a little bit about 8 - > yourself and how you came to write your book Better Listening. Yeah. Well, 9 - > then, first off, thank you so much for having me, you 10 - > know on the London Leadership Podcast. I'm just looking forward to our great conversation.
11 - > Oh boy, how I wrote this book, you know, goes back 12 - > about ten fifteen years ago and I thought, you know this, this is 13 - > needed. You know, we're all good listeners, but the key is we 14 - > could all be like much better listeners. You know, the world is busy, 15 - > we're multitasking, our attention spans are very very short, and we're constantly 16 - > distracted. You know, our patients sys then in conversations even today like politics, 17 - > and culture, religion and economy.
There's so many things moving around with 18 - > different views that we all kind of wanted to be, you know, a 19 - > better listener. And what I realized, what I wanted to write this book, 20 - > is that we're just cutting each other off all the time. You know, 21 - > we're just not letting you know, each other finish, or we're thinking 22 - > about what we want to say, you know, when the other person is 23 - > still talking, and almost like we're just like kind of hijacking, you know, 24 - > the conversation.
So I thought, you know, this is such an 25 - > important area to have more impactful conversations. We want to have more meaningful dialogues, 26 - > we want to have deeper discussions and we and I thought, not only 27 - > would this help professionally, which is in my world wealth management, to have 28 - > relationships that we really hear what people are feeling and what they want to share, 29 - > but also in personal relationships, you know, And that's why I wrote 30 - > the book Better Listening.
Well, that's really interesting, and listening is something 31 - > that I've tried to really work on and improve. But I realized that I 32 - > still have such a long way to go. And my friends who know me 33 - > are listening to this thinking, oh, it's good that he's doing this because 34 - > he needs to. He needs to work on that himself and I and I 35 - > realized just what you mentioned there, like interrupting people and thinking about what we're 36 - > going to say while they're still speaking.
And I realized just before we started, 37 - > I have that thing where I like, I don't know what it is, 38 - > it's like something that jumps in or maybe it is that my attention, 39 - > I lose the attention or but I really want to be a better listener because 40 - > I think listening really shows people that you value them. I think listening well 41 - > shows people that you appreciate their thoughts shows listening, I think really helps you 42 - > grow as a person too, because it helps you to fully learn from the 43 - > voices that are around you.
And if we're if we struggle to listen, 44 - > I think we can just stay fixed on what we've done or what we've always 45 - > known and not really be able to adapt because we don't take things in. 46 - > So this is something that I really tried to work on and I'm still working 47 - > on. So I'm really excited about this. So I understand.
One of 48 - > the things that we like to do at the London's Leadership Podcast is make it 49 - > super practical So what would you say would be like three of your key takeaways 50 - > from your book on how we can all become better listeners. Well, I 51 - > would start by saying, you know, and again like there's so many you 52 - > know tips. You know, there's the act of listening tip, which is 53 - > being in the present, you know, focusing really trying to get distractions away, 54 - > putting that self one way, not looking at the TV or looking around, 55 - > but really focusing on that person that's talking once because they they feel then 56 - > that you care about what they're saying.
The eye contact, the leaning in, 57 - > the nodding a little bit, just that's your active listening. And that's 58 - > one area. The reflective listening tip, which is even more important, is 59 - > going through the process of not being in such a response mode. So if 60 - > you said to me, what are some tips, Oh, let me tell 61 - > you the tips, you know.
But if I said to you know, 62 - > Fernando, when you say tips, help me understand that a little bit more, 63 - > because obviously you want some tips. You know, that's a big area. 64 - > Tell me more and you may say, well, no tips, you 65 - > know that could help the listeners be better. So one, you always want 66 - > to reflect, okay, when a person's talking to you, before you respond.
67 - > So let's think about this. Push that response mode later to the conversation. 68 - > Don't be a response mode person. Okay, step back and pause, 69 - > Step back and say okay, so it sounds like you want to talk about 70 - > tips, So tell me more about that so I can really be clear.
71 - > And that's your reflection and clarification. And once they tell you really what they're 72 - > feeling, the better listener adds something in there that is so unique. It 73 - > makes these leaders from good leaders to great leaders, and that is empathy. 74 - > If I had one thing to take away and today, we need to have 75 - > more empathy in our conversations.
We want to hear what they're feeling. We 76 - > want to really listen and let them deep, you know, just deepen that 77 - > conversation, empty their bucket. We want to you know, we want us 78 - > to respond by putting on that super cape of solution. Let me tell you 79 - > what I think, Let me help you with the problem, let me show 80 - > you what you know.
They don't want that, They just want to be 81 - > heard. Sometimes they just want to vent, and we are so quick to 82 - > respond. Sometimes it's even a great question. Here's a tip.
Hey, 83 - > do you want me to listen to what's going on? In how you had 84 - > a hard day or things at school bad, or of friends having an issue, 85 - > or do you want me just to listen you know you want my response 86 - > and a couple of thoughts, or do you want me just to listen and 87 - > they'll tell you As opposed to you know what, I really didn't want you 88 - > to solve my world's problem. I just wanted you to listen to me. 89 - > You know.
So three tips right there, active listening being the present to 90 - > reflective listening. So you want to reflect first when you're talking to someone. 91 - > You want to clarify to make sure that you're understanding it. You want to 92 - > show empathy so that you know that you're really getting them to show what they're 93 - > feeling.
And then you check in, okay, what else? And then 94 - > and then go into your response, and there your response is more meaningful. 95 - > They appreciate you listen, You appreciate you listened, and everyone's ta happier in 96 - > the conversation. That makes sense, Yeah, really good.
Just as you 97 - > were as you were talking, I was trying to take in what you were 98 - > saying and not thinking of a response. But one of the things I heard 99 - > as I was also learning about this, was this technique called the ear technique. 100 - > So and I think you described it explore. So somebody like is talking 101 - > to you about something, instead of jumping in assuming you've understood what they've said, 102 - > just asking them a few more questions to really get to the core of 103 - > what they want to say.
So, oh, you want to know about 104 - > tips about listening, Tell me what kind of tips you're looking for? Why, 105 - > why are you looking for or why listening? And then just getting to 106 - > that explore And then I think the other thing that then acknowledging what they've said. 107 - > And I think you did that so well just before we started you and 108 - > with you, I think what I've noticed that's good is that it doesn't seem 109 - > rehearsed.
Some of the things that I've found difficult with listening is that Okay, 110 - > oh right, hold on, I need to do this, this, 111 - > this, And then when people I'm engaging with people, I'm trying to be 112 - > an active listener, so I'm nodding, I'm smiling, and then if they 113 - > feel as though, wait, are you listening to me? It feels like 114 - > you're not. It feels like you're not quite heavy because I'm trying to do 115 - > it all, but I'm not actually there. If that makes sense.
Well, 116 - > then I'll your crazy story roll back. A father CEO sends me and 117 - > says, hey, Stan, I read your book. Okay, I'm a 118 - > CEO. I'm on a plane.
I'm reading it. Thanks for the great 119 - > tips whatever is, but that's not the review. I come home to the 120 - > dinner table with my daughter. My daughter tells me about her crazy problems of 121 - > the day, and I'm about to jump in and give her parental pontification.
122 - > Okay, I'm gonna tell her how to sound. And I stopped, and 123 - > I just paused, and I said to her, tell me a little bit 124 - > more, because it sounds like you had some issues today. Help me understand 125 - > that more, or tell me a little bit more about that. So remember 126 - > good open ended questions, right, you know, we all know about it, 127 - > but we've got to beet back to the basics.
More open ended questions. 128 - > So he says to her, Okay, so it sounds like this, 129 - > you know, tell me a little bit more. He shared some empathy. 130 - > Listen, a lot of people have this.
She feels good, he says 131 - > to her. What else? She goes on for fifteen minutes, gets up 132 - > from the dinner table, turns around, hugs or down, and says that 133 - > thank you for finally listening to me, because we're in this response mode society 134 - > that we have to respond so quickly, and people are really asking us to 135 - > just pause, take a step back, hear what they're saying, get a 136 - > deeper meaning, empathize with them, and move you know, I'll real quickly, 137 - > leadership, just to move it first.
Second, leaders, okay, 138 - > have a really hard time because they have a hard time really being great listeners. 139 - > They're good listeners, but there's a great quote that says some people listen 140 - > to respond versus listening to understand. Good leaders listen to respond. Great leaders 141 - > listen to understand.
They want to hear what their employees are, the project 142 - > or who they're working with. They want feedback. They want them to know 143 - > that their opinion is value. They'll even say to them, hey, listen, 144 - > what can I do to hear more about what you're working on so that 145 - > I can make sure that we're clear about what we're trying to accomplish.
And 146 - > this great leader said, once, you know, if every day I know 147 - > that anything I say to someone, I am not going to learn anything. 148 - > So as long as that's the case, I might as well listen a little 149 - > bit more. And that's really where you know, the leadership part of listening 150 - > is so crucial today because we're trying to get our agendas. The leaders are 151 - > trying to get their agendas, push their agenda, get it done, do 152 - > it how they want, when in reality, if they just step back a 153 - > little bit, they will see that they have such a wealth of knowledge and 154 - > the assets that they're working with other people, and these people have great, 155 - > great you know, intel and intellect and want to give back.
We just 156 - > have to give them more of a chance. Yeah, given them more of 157 - > a chance. And I think, I think, what that? What that?
158 - > What that father did? In your stories? It is so it's so 159 - > it sounds so simple just asking what else or because I think in that it's 160 - > like, so I was saying, explore, acknowledge and then respond. But 161 - > even the acknowledged part is just stating back to the person what you've heard.
162 - > It's something so simple, but actually it takes a lot of strength to do 163 - > because for some reason, it just feels like in the moment, it just 164 - > feels it feels like it's forced. But it's such a powerful thing to do. 165 - > Like I've been in conversation where I think, oh, I need to 166 - > just acknowledge. Let me just phrase what I've heard to the person, And 167 - > it could take me one or two seconds to say that, but for some 168 - > reason in the moment that feels so hard to do that, I'll just jump 169 - > straight to respond.
But if I were to just just pull myself back for 170 - > those two seconds and acknowledge what they've said to the point that they say yes, 171 - > that's almost they not along like yes, that's what I said, that 172 - > gives you the permission to then respond. And I think what you said earlier 173 - > was really good, is like and sometimes it's even helpful to I heard this 174 - > in I think it's a book that just came out called Supercommunicators, which was 175 - > like do you want to be helped?
Do you want to be hugged? 176 - > Or do you want to be heard? And sometimes when you after acknowledging someone, 177 - > you could even ask like sometimes when I'm speaking to a friend of mine, 178 - > I never quite know what she wants when she speaks to me, So 179 - > I think it's sometimes helpful to say, Okay, do you want me to 180 - > just hug? Do you just need to me to empathize and hug you?
181 - > And I'm like, oh, do you need to be helped? Do you 182 - > want me to give you a suggestion or do you simply just want me to 183 - > listen and it will. Yeah. And I think a lot of people want 184 - > all of those, but they don't have a chance to share that.
I 185 - > mean, how many times do we hear a story where someone says something like, 186 - > oh my god, you need a hug. Well, I don't know 187 - > if you need a hug, because I just responded so quickly without really digging 188 - > deeper. And I think that you bring up great you know, this exploring 189 - > knowledge is so powerful, you know. But what's interesting is that what you 190 - > said is we want to respond so greatly, but if we just step back 191 - > for a second and we just again, this is a great takeaway also a 192 - > tip move yourself away from surface responding and go deeper.
So we are a 193 - > society that if we hear something, we respond. Okay, if we are 194 - > in a conversation with friends, we jump in. In fact, the conversation 195 - > gets louder and louder and louder because everyone's jumping in. No one's taking a 196 - > pause.
So we're all on a surface respond society. And and what people 197 - > are saying, they're crying to be heard, is move it down further. 198 - > With those clarifications, with that acknowledging, exploring with the you know, you 199 - > know, helping someone, you know, hearing someone, a hugging someone. 200 - > We want to know more so that we know which one do they really need, 201 - > you know.
And again I'll go back to the leadership because I think 202 - > that you know, this is a big problem right now. You know, 203 - > the number one complaint, you know is a person says, you know, 204 - > you're not listening to me. Okay, you're just not getting this, like 205 - > you're not hearing me. I mean, how many times do we go to 206 - > a dinner conversation right with a fan with a bunch of couples.
We're sitting 207 - > around and someone starts a story and they're telling the story about their kids or 208 - > a restaurant, and someone jumps says, no, no, no, it 209 - > wasn't it wasn't there. It was actually you know on the West End. 210 - > Okay it was it wasn't there, and go, okay, well whatever, 211 - > anyways, it was a great, big restaurant. No it wasn't a big 212 - > resturent.
And you say, like, wait, do you want to tell 213 - > the story? Is obviously you keep interrupting me and you're not letting me, 214 - > you know, finish. And this is and this creates hurt. It's not 215 - > just hurt on a professional standpoint, it's heart on a personal This is where 216 - > you know, parents and children today, you know, have a hard time 217 - > communicating because everyone's just jumping into responding, Whereas if we just kind of step 218 - > back a little bit and said, you know, help me understand that a 219 - > little bit more, or you know, it seems to me that this is 220 - > really important to you.
It's having a major fact. I want to understand 221 - > this more. Okay, And by the way, we don't have to agree. 222 - > We could agree to disagree, and we don't have to you know, 223 - > listen on the defense.
You know, they say that a person will never 224 - > change another person's strong opinion, But the funny part is they're not going to 225 - > change yours either. So if that's the case, let's have a more respectful 226 - > dialogue and let's hear what the other person is saying. Let's kind of get 227 - > to the root of it, let them empty their buckets, give some empathy, 228 - > and then you'll get invited back to the Thanksgiving table the next year. 229 - > You know, Yeah, yeah, I was just I was just just thinking 230 - > about what you were saying.
Of if I heard you correctly of just having 231 - > to slow down, and we're in this response society that all the all our 232 - > kind of like conversations are just response response response, but we're not getting to 233 - > to really the root of the issue as leaders but also in our family relationships. 234 - > So what you said, I think that most of the complaint is that 235 - > you're just not understanding what I'm trying to say. And I think and as 236 - > I was hearing what you're saying, what I was most thinking of was when 237 - > I've met people who who do do this, When I've when I've had those 238 - > encounters with leaders or friends who who seem to just slow down when you're with 239 - > them, who seem to just really take an interest in who you are and 240 - > what you're saying, they really might me and in some way, I really 241 - > there's something in me that thinks, oh, I want to be like you, 242 - > And why is that?
Why is that? Is it because they feel 243 - > comfortable and help me understand that it just feels like they they they care. 244 - > I leave I leave the encounter feeling as though this person cares about me, 245 - > Whereas when I encounter someone who's like me and who's response heavy, who's almost 246 - > like trying to do a million things at once. It makes me feel as 247 - > though they don't care enough about me.
But I do care, but I 248 - > don't. It doesn't make people feel as though I care, And whether I 249 - > care or not, they don't feel as though I care, So I don't 250 - > care in their art like I it might. My desire isn't being communicated, 251 - > so it's not effective. And I just think something as simple as just when 252 - > somebody's come to you, just to slow down for that thirty seconds, for 253 - > that one minute, for five minutes and just really say, just tell me, 254 - > what do you mean by that?
Where's that coming from? It just 255 - > makes such a difference. But we sometimes don't want to sacrifice those five minutes. 256 - > But actually there's such an investment in the future of all our relationships.
257 - > And most of the time, I think, just as you were saying that 258 - > as well. Sorry, when we look at these things, we think, 259 - > oh, I'm going to be a better listener at work. I'm going to 260 - > be a better listener with my team. That's all good, But your team 261 - > aren't going to be there when you're ill or when you need to port your 262 - > family out.
And sometimes we sacrifice listening well to our families trying to be 263 - > better leaders and listeners at work. But actually the people we need to be 264 - > better listeners with are the people who are closest to us, are our wives 265 - > or our moms, or our dads or siblings or who. But but we 266 - > sometimes think with them it can just be response heavy, but actually with them, 267 - > it's when we need to really invest that time to slow down, to 268 - > empathize, to acknowledge and to and to and to really listen.
I think, 269 - > but I struggle with all of this. That's why the fucking go better. 270 - > Like, hey, listen. You know what's interesting is I want to 271 - > go back to And it's funny because when we are talking to our employees okay, 272 - > or when we're talking to someone in our family, you know another thing 273 - > that comes up, and that is, you know, where where in the 274 - > relationship do they finally realize that we're caring about them?
And that was one 275 - > of the things you said, I want to walk away. Well this is 276 - > the problem and this is where better listening or just the small tips can change, 277 - > like literally change. There's a great question, great question I'll share with 278 - > the audience and with you, and that is when you're talking to someone and 279 - > they're in a new relationship or let's say you're in a business and you're trying 280 - > to get a new client, or let's say you're in a new friends group 281 - > or you're at an associate whatever is anything that you're just joining and you're trying 282 - > to get involved, and they want to find out more about you, and 283 - > you want to find out more about them.
Here's a great question. What 284 - > is most important to you with regards to a relationship with me working with you, 285 - > or with me being on your board of directors, with me being on 286 - > the soccer you know, the soccer parents committee. What's most important to you 287 - > with the relationship with let's say someone doing that. And what they do is 288 - > they look and say, well, I want someone who's professional, I want 289 - > someone who I can trust.
I want someone who has good communication. And 290 - > we are so quick to come back, why I have a good communication, 291 - > you can trust to me? Okay, we want to respond, but actually, 292 - > what's a better part of that? After that question, what's most important 293 - > to you with regards to a relationship with let's say myself working on a project 294 - > or being part of this group.
And the next thing is when they tell 295 - > you ask them okay, so when you say communication, help understand that more? 296 - > Well? We want someone who is able to well when you say trust, 297 - > well, the last person we had really didn't. Well, how does 298 - > that look?
You know, how does that look moving forward? And then 299 - > finally the last thing is like, you know what, we want someone who 300 - > can be proactive in ideas. Okay, well that's a big area. Give 301 - > me a couple examples.
And once they tell you what's most important to them, 302 - > you realize it's not most important to you, and you create the whole 303 - > relationship knowing what is most important to them, and that relationship gets stronger, 304 - > you have more productivity, the results are a lot faster and more efficient, 305 - > and you find out it's because you listen. Going back to what you said, 306 - > you show that you cared what's most important to them. That's a great 307 - > little question to, you know, have in your conference.
If you're ever 308 - > in a social setting, religious a sports setting with a kid, or a 309 - > company setting and you're about to go into something new, stop and pause. 310 - > I love that, Fernando, I love that stop and pause, you know, 311 - > slow down and say, hey, before we get really involved, what's 312 - > most important to you with regards to our relationship with us working on this. 313 - > I'd love to hear that. Wow, Wow, what's most important to you.
314 - > I'm going to write that down. I'm going to start building that into 315 - > my conversations. Stan, I've really loved spending time with you today, and 316 - > I think i've I've learned so much from you, which actually just speaking to 317 - > you, I can feel how my desire to be a better listener kind of 318 - > like and my desire to care for people really getting I feel inspired to go 319 - > out and do this. Thank you so much for your time, Thank you 320 - > so much for your book, and I think your book is available on Amazon, 321 - > so anyone can go and buy it right now.
Is anything else you'd 322 - > like to say? Stan? Now, first of all, thank you so 323 - > much for you know this is it's fun having a meaningful dialogue, it's fun 324 - > having an impactful conversation, it's fun having an interactive and even today, it's 325 - > a great example if you get chance to read it, and you can go 326 - > on Amazon. It's just called Better Listening and it's great if you pick up 327 - > a nugget or if you pick up I'd love to hear, so please email 328 - > me do Better Listeningbook dot com.
It's the website Better Listening Book at gmail. 329 - > Love to hear your thoughts most importantly, remember we're all good listeners. 330 - > We are, We could just all be better listeners. So thank you so 331 - > much for having me.
Thank you so much, and see you next time. 332 - > It's the Leadership Podcast.
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