AI, Entrepreneurship & Business Growth with Shai Stern of GoTavi | B2B Vault Podcast

Speaker A: Welcome to the Biz2Biz podcast. Your number one source for all business news.

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Speaker C: You're now watching B2B Vault, the Biz to Biz podcast hosted by Alan Koppelman. Powered by Nationwide Payment Systems, the number one solution for payment processing.

Speaker B: Hey everybody. Welcome to Today's episode of B2B Vault, the Biz2Biz podcast where we talk about entrepreneurship, business, sales, marketing, AI. All everything has to do with business. This podcast is for business owners, people looking to open up businesses so you can learn m from about products, services and all different things about business. And it's sponsored by Nationwide Payment Systems and our new Gateway NPS1. And today we have a special guest and I met this guest through Bordy who was on my, the last podcast that I did. So um, we got introduced by Boardy and that's really interesting. And then today we're going to welcome to the podcast Shy Stern from Gotavi. So welcome to the show, Shai.

Speaker D: Thank you Alan. Great to be here.

Speaker B: So tell us a little bit about yourself and what is Gotavi?

Speaker D: So, uh, I'm a 52 year old entrepreneur starting a company now for the sixth time. Well, sorry I guess last year and the thesis around Gotavi is an all in one essential business operating platform, which in simple terms means that I've been watching entrepreneurs, myself included over the years have multiple vendors or a different vendor for all the basic needs. Incorporation, governance, payments, background checks, insurance and a couple of others. And I said it's about time we create the super concierge platform that makes the life of an entrepreneur and a business owner that much easier.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's super important. I, I take the concierge thing very seriously in my business because that's what we try to do is provide a. Uh, we don't try, we do it for 25 years, provide a concierge service for people when we're doing their payments. So uh, they have an open line of communication to, to us, you know, and for whatever, email, text, WhatsApp, phone calls, etc, and you know, people get tired of some of these platforms where's no name, no phone number, you know, so it gets A little difficult when you're trying to do business. So, so tell us, like, how did the, how did like, not. How did you decide to like, come up with this concept after six businesses in the past?

Speaker D: Um, before I go there, you know, it reminded me, you know, you and I are super aligned. I think we connected like kindred spirits when we first spoke about this idea of a concierge. Reminded me two things. You know, years ago I used to travel, um, from New York to LA all the time, even before I moved to la. And they used to stay in the same, in the same hotel all the time. Now inevitably, whenever I got off the plane and I got to the hotel, I forgot my charger. There's always like, I left a charger in the car, on the plane, wherever I was, always forgot to charge her. And I'd always say, like, I'm sure many of us, maybe just me, but we'll go to hotel and go, hey, by the way, I have an extra charger. And inevitably they would literally leave a charger for me on my bed when I got there with a note saying, welcome back Mr. Stern, we assume you forgot your charger. And I was like, that is great service. That is great service. And um, reminds me of that story, Another anecdote reminded me of that for years at Checkault, uh, my payments company that we had, um, I used to keep my cell phone on the front page of the website. And ah, people would say to me, are you nuts? Like you want your cell phone to be so public? I'm like, yeah, I want it to be public. And those customers would then say, wow, that's incredible that you keep your cell phone on the website. And then there was a time when someone said, no, we're taking it off the website. I'm like, no, keep it there. It's my phone number. If I want it there. That's my risk. If a lunatic is going to call me, I can always deny the phone call or hang up the phone. But kind of idea, um, you know, is something that hopefully resonates with you and others. To, uh, answer your question about the thesis around Gotabi and how it came, you know, how, how we worked to get there was, you know, over the years we had a business that did SEC filing solutions. Then we had a business that did entity formation. We had a business, did background checks, one that did check processing Treasury Solutions stock transfer. And I looked at it and I said, with the explosive growth of AI, what's going to happen is there will be more and more entrepreneurs. They're going to be more and more side hustles. They're going to be more and more of everything. And I want to try to grow as fast they can to become the next $60 billion company. But they need the pipes, the picks and shovels to be fluid and to be easy and to not be a headache and not have to manage. They got to get to work. And this stuff is the stuff that nobody really wants to be. It's boring. So we looked at and we said, I like boring. I really do. Um, so, um, that's how it popped in. And, uh, so far, so good.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, definitely. AI is taking over everywhere. You know, we met through Boardy and it was interesting for me to learn that Boardy was created by Andrew D' Souza and Boardy actually went out and raised over $8 million without a human ever talking to the. The investors. And it's, um, it's crazy, like how something like that could actually work and.

Speaker D: Fascinating.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I mean, everywhere you go, there's AI, AI chatbots on websites. Sometimes, I don't know why, people come to my AI chatbot and then they don't leave a message there. So, you know, it's. We can all, you know, we ask them, like, hey, fill out a form, call us, or we'll call you, however you want to do it. But it's interesting how people will engage, not engage with AI. And, um, you know, the. There's this AI is, you know, is everywhere.

Speaker D: It really is. But you see, Allan, you know, I'm 52, and I remember not so long ago when the Internet really started to take off and there were conversations that people said, I remember my. My father, may he rest in peace, he was rather a quick adopter of Internet and Amazon and all this fun stuff. But there were a m. Lot of his friends would say, there is no way I'm putting my credit card on the Internet. Remember those days, Alan?

Speaker B: Oh, yeah.

Speaker D: No way. And then obviously the whole world does today, because if not, you can't get into an Uber and you can't buy off Amazon. You can't get Uber Eats. You can't function if you don't put your. Today there is a moment, there's a moment where there, uh, will be those who are quick adapters, and they're all in. There are those who will be slow to adapt. There will be those things that go wonky, and that's why there's AI insurance. Today there's going to be. But we're living in a moment and there Might be a split generationally where the youngsters are adapting quicker than the older folks or the middle aged guys. It doesn't make a difference. It's here to stay, it's here to be adapted to. It's only going to be refined and get better. And it's on us to embrace those who are just running.

Speaker B: If you're enjoying the show, make sure you follow B2B Vault, the Biz to Biz podcast on YouTube, Spotify or Apple. We break down payments, point of sale, business trends, AI and interview leaders from every industry. New episodes drop weekly, hit subscribe and join the community Link in Description yeah, one of the things that popped up in my news feed today when I started to look at the news was how, and there was a couple of posts on Reddit about this too. That AI chatbot, whatever you call them bots, right, are clicking on ads and eating up ad budget on people. And there's like there was one guy that posted about that, he got $80,000 worth of clicks and it was all bots. That's kind of dangerous to the, to the ecosystem of business because unless you put some kind of ceiling on your ad spend, uh, that's something that's super, super important right now because I don't know how meta, uh, Google, etc, even OpenAI, who's taking advertising perplexity is taking advertising right now. I don't know how that's going to be controlled from that standpoint.

Speaker D: That's a great call out. But one thing we could both bet on, it will be figured out. Maybe that's because they all want ad revenue and they're not going to jeopardize or ad revenue being um, questioned. Um, so these guys who build these companies are, I give them all the credit. They're the smartest guys in the room. They will figure that out to make sure that they continue to get ad revenue and not to jeopardize that.

Speaker B: Yeah, it was just kind of interesting to hear somebody, a couple of people post about, you know, not know, there's been talks about tokens and all of that and things like that. So, so you know, so like vet, you know, everybody want, you know, AI is definitely not going away, you know and everybody's trying to figure out how to use it and how much to use it, how, um, not much to use it, what you can actually do with it. But you know, when you talk about, you know like founders, uh, you know, when I talk about founders and even I talk to founders all the time, you know that a lot of Them are they're looking to do everything as fast as they can and sometimes they're not looking around that like, okay, when I get from this stage to this stage, what, what do I need, you know, what, what do I need to do? And, and uh, you know, how to, and sometimes they can outgrow, you know, a platform that they're on and things like that. So how are you approaching that?

Speaker D: Yeah, that, that's, that's, that's a great, a great point. Uh, it's a, not to sound self serving for me or for you, but that's why concierge still wins all the time. Um, you know, again, guys who are building new businesses today, if they're building it on their own, they have to know how to slow down and run at the same time. You know, the operational um, needs of a business are forever shifting. The compliance needs of a business are forever shifting the governance. Meaning there are businesses being built and have already been built rather successfully that are governing AI agents amongst um, co workers, amongst colleagues, amongst different, uh, let's call it slack channels. They need to be governed. Um, when businesses are growing and they're spending money, um, is that they don't even know why they're spending it or they're not testing if that money is well spent and, or these are all things that having the right advisors around your table is more is imperative as it always has been. It's now it's even more imperative. So here's a, here's a takeaway. As you're building your business today in this environment of AI, you need to have an AI coach, um, that is responsible for managing the AI spend of the business. A lot of finance folks, it's now an additional requirement for them to understand there's a new line item called AI spend. Now it can be buried in multiple places. It's got to have your eyes really in tune to what that is. But you know, you're bringing up a really good point and that's why again, having a great payment provider in you and having the right essential tool provider in me allows the company more time to focus on this new era and how they need to run their business.

Speaker B: Yeah, you know it's funny like you were talking about the token usage and there's uh, you know, I always tell people like, hey, don't, don't, don't be crazy. You have to put a cap on your token usage because if you don't, I mean I talked to somebody that founded a company, they got a $200,000 bill from Claude.

Speaker D: It's insane, right? It's insane. But. But that's irresponsible, by the way. Irresponsible on their part and irresponsible on Claude's part. Claude should absolutely as well. It's like a credit card. They should have credit limits.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker D: They need to go and have credit limits. And that's going to happen as well. Remember, we're living right now in a wild west that's going to calm down and somewhat be governed. And. But how do you balance governing things and not hindering speed and growth and potential? And that's, that's, that's the conversation. I'm sure it's happening. It's happening by us. It's happening by you. It's happening all day. Is that. Yeah, we gotta go, right? I call my company, Gotavi. We gotta go. But you gotta go and be somewhat tempered. Make sure that your excitement is not gonna come back and bite you in the. In the behind, you know, next month with a bill from Claude or some other, as we call it, mishas. We got to make sure we, you know, we're watching over ourselves.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's like, uh, you know, it's easy to go and say, you know, was messing around in AI the other day, and it's like, well, you got to go over here and do this and do that. And then I was like, oh, that's not free. You had to buy. You had to put buy tokens. And I was like, well, I'm not doing that. And it said, oh, well, you only can build, uh, whatever it is, four, five agents. So you can't ask the agent to do, to do anything else. But what a lot of people think is like, all of a sudden, like, I had, uh, somebody tell me, they're like, oh, I'm gonna make all these sales. I got the sales plan and here's the plan. And I was like, okay, tell me the plan. And they had a lot of papers written out and they showed it to me. And I go, well, what's the plan? They go, I'm gonna go on Claude. And Claude's gonna find me all these customers and email it. Email the customers. And I'm gonna get all these phone calls. I'm like, dude, Claude does not do that. And they. People watch these videos, you know, online. Like, oh, yeah, connect Claude. And it's gonna do. I don't know who's making these videos, but they're not true. And you know, you gotta hook up things and software and this and that. It's not, it's not like, oh, you just go talk to Claude and Claude just does stuff or Open AI just does stuff, or Perplexity just does stuff. It's got to be, it's got to be with human intervention that you're doing this stuff because what are you going to do? You're going to say Claude, go fix my website. And then the next thing you know, Claude goes crazy and makes your website into something that you didn't want it.

Speaker D: There's, there's a lot of accuracy to what you're saying, but there's other, there's a pushback on it, you know, like, like with all tools that you have in a business, Claude, perplexity, OpenAI, Gemini, people don't keep, you know, Gemini in the same conversation as well. You know, I'm using gemini, I'm using OpenAI, I'm using Claude, I'm using Perplexity, I'm using these different tools for different reasons. And there's a lot of value. There is a lot of value. The question is how do you know where the value begins and how do you know where the value ends and how do you know how to thread through that value? I think what you're saying is they're not going to go to do this and the guys who are doing these videos are. It's a great challenge back at the guys producing those videos. But don't forget Alan, those guys looking to make money and you buying their videos too, right? They're looking as well, they're selling you something and there's a gullible environment. It's the same morons who sell my 17 year old daughter things. You uh, know that I wish they didn't and that she didn't buy. But we're a sucker for things like that that are get rich schemes. The wizard says by the way, this is a lot about what I've been talking about the last couple of days. You know, I'm 52, I love talking to 20 year olds today more than ever, more than ever. And I know you're only 22 because it says you had 22, but

Speaker B: I wish I was 20. I should get a new hat says 66.

Speaker D: But the 22 year olds,

Speaker B: uh,

Speaker D: they see things and they can plug things really quickly that I have the experience in certain areas. They got a certain tech wisdom and how the AI is working and they're able to figure out how to thread through. Now that also needs maturity, experience, not living in some pipe dream because if you go out and you go ahead and Raise money and you tell an investor, I'm going to have $5 million in revenue next year, recurring revenue, whatever the number is going to be. Well, you have to know one thing. You better deliver or beat it or they're not going to give you more money or not support you on your next raise. It was actually was a great clip. I don't know if you saw Ari Emanuel, the big super agent that the show Entourage was based on.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker D: Came out with a new book just now. It's all over the press, you know, and uh, I'm sure it's going to be a great read. And I've been watching a bunch of the interviews and I've met him in the past. You know, he's something else from a different, just an amazingly driven, driven individual, you know. And him and Mark Shapiro were saying they got challenged by, uh, by Mark, uh, on CNBC about that. His revenue over the last quarter was this. He goes, yeah, because we've backloaded on the second half what those numbers are going to be. We got a lot of deals that we're going to announce and they're going to hit the numbers. Those guys got it down, buttoned down. That's a real business in the world of, uh, AI. And I'm going to use agents and I'm not. Here's the thing, if I go to an investor and I go, give me 5 million bucks, I need to go ahead and hire a head of revenue, biz, dev, uh, marketing, sales. Here's my budget on that. Now I'm saying I don't need that budget, I need 80% less. Because I'm going to use a go to market agent, revenue plan, whatever that might be. They only will be satisfied with it if the outcome of the growth will be delivered. If you say, want to spend 80% less money, but you're going to get them 80% less revenue, you haven't achieved anything.

Speaker B: So

Speaker D: it's. How do you use those tools, Thread them through, beat them down, keep on challenging them, refining them, um, until they bring you an outcome that it's going to help bring the growth to the company.

Speaker B: I mean, one of the things I use my AI for is monitoring my email box because I get so much email now. Haven't had it go

Speaker D: working for you. How's that working for you?

Speaker B: It actually works well because I go in there and I say, okay, I got people that want to come on the podcast, pull them all up, and it pulls up everybody that wants to come on the podcast and then lets me know like how many connections they have on social media, LinkedIn. Does the subject matter, you know, jive with what we want to talk about on B2B vault? You know, I try to only have, you know, talk about things on here that I can have a conversation about. I mean, you want to talk about payroll, you want to talk about payments, you want to talk about insurance, you want to talk about, you know, building a business. I mean, I can talk about all of that, but if somebody's going to come on here and talk about real estate, I'm not going to have much to talk about. I know things about real estate, but I'm not a real estate expert. So, you know, I got to get. Bring the conversations here that are going to be important, you know, and every, uh, every episode can't just be about AI. It's got to be about other things because, you know, otherwise it would just be the AI podcast. I mean, you know, we're dealing with, with AI, you know, there's more conversations about cyber security. There's more conversations about, uh, people's identities being stolen because of AI. And there's a lot of stuff going on around, around AI when it comes to security in general. Not just cyber security, but security. And that's, you know, one of the big things is, you know, how are people going to control that in their, in their business environment? And if you're an AI company, know, you've got to ensure yourself against those type of things. Not for you. Because what if you mess something up for one of your users, you know?

Speaker D: Yeah, it's a. You know, we speak about that a lot at Gotavi, and we offer AI Insurance, and we highlight that most business policies today do not cover AI insurance and AI build. And if these things go, go wonky. But here's something I will tell, um, entrepreneurs. I will tell entrepreneurs that if you are faced with, with a client saying to you, let me see your AI insurance policy, and then they go to and go, no, what you have is not sufficient. We want you to have more coverage. Well, I'll tell you something that happened a bunch of years ago. Five, six years ago, um, State Farm Insurance wanted to become a client of Checkholts. And I never in a million years thought we'd beat out the, uh, incumbents for that piece of business story for another day. Um, but, uh, we won that business again. Because I called up the guy at, um, State Farm who was making the decision. I go, hi, I'm shy, Stern. I'm the CEO, and I want to talk to you about this opportunity. And he goes to me, are you really kidding me? You're calling me up? The other competitors, their CEOs are not calling. And his name was really Kevin from State Farm. We won the business because of that phone call. So I encourage everybody to please call up, call up, pick up the phone and say you want the order. But they came back and we were finalizing the contract and they go, your insurance policies are not sufficient for what we need now. We thought, and we had big, big banks that we had enough coverage. They wanted in another level of coverage. That's their prerogative. That's what they wanted. And I said to him, I said, my dear friend, we want to win your business. However, we service hundreds, hundreds of financial institutions. They find our coverage to be sufficient. If you now want us to double the coverage which, what they wanted, double the coverage, are you going to pay for it? And he went, he goes, let m me speak to my compliance folks. He came back and they said, yes, we will pay the difference for doubling your premium. Didn't negotiate the contract. Didn't, didn't retrace us. I mean, Alan, that's a great point. He did not retrade the agreement. He said, yes, we'll take that on as a cost for ourselves. And that taught me a great lesson. If you don't have an open conversation with a client and say to them and say, look, you're asking us for an additional cost that we did not, um, build into the price we gave you, how do you want to manage it? And you speak openly and honestly most of the time, reasonable people will say, okay, we'll cover that for you. We want to go with you. And um, today with AI insurance, you got to have it. But be confident to say, if they ask me to take on an additional cost for one specific client and one specific bill, ask them if they're willing to share that cost with you.

Speaker B: Yeah, I've had cust, I've had companies come to me before and they're like, oh, well, we require you to have X amount of insurance. And I'm like, well, we're not doing it, you know, and they're like, what do you mean you're not doing. I'm like, yeah, that's going to add too much to our cost. I mean, we're, it's, you're asking us to take out like a ten thousand dollar insurance policy and we haven't done anything together. So there's no reason for us to take out this type of insurance. Because, you know, why do we need to be, you know, why, why do we need to be. Have so much insurance? And we had, you know, we, they asked us to demonstrate a whole bunch of other things like, you know, the validity of, uh, security, the PCI compliance and ISO and different things like that.

Speaker D: But here's another, here's another play. There, another play could be, hey, you know, new, new, uh, potential client. We understand that's what you want. We understand that it's not what we think we need. If you, we can write down the contract. If Your revenue surpasses x dollar in the first 12 months, then by all means, we'll split it with you, we'll cover it year two and year three. As long as you maintain a certain threshold of growth revenue, that's fine. And then if they're serious and they're committed, they'll go with it. But there's always a way to discuss. Once two parties are truly interested in working together, then hopefully in a conversation it can be resolved as to who covers what.

Speaker B: So, you know, let's talk about like, why do you think so many, especially young, um, entrepreneurs run to these online companies that have no telephone numbers and then they go and get payments, they get insurance, they get whatever legal advice, uh, all kinds of things from, from these companies. Whereas, you know, when me and you first started out in business, I mean, it was all done, you know, face to face or over the phone and things like that. And do you think, like, people are gonna go start to question, like, hey, should I be doing business with a company with no phone number or should I be going and trying to use a concierge type service?

Speaker D: Um, I think there's going to be both. I truly believe we're going to see both. Meaning the best days, Alan, for you is when you got an email or you got an inbound that go, I don't need to talk to you, just turn me on, right? And I can, you can process for them. Those are great days. Now you, you, because in your payments business, you're so good at what you do, you want to talk and say, hi, thank you for your business, please know I'm always here for you. I love that, right? You and I, we love that. There are those who subconsciously, they love that, but they hope and they pray they never need to talk to guys like you and I. They just want to have their business. Hum. And for that I applaud that. And that's, by the way, a lot of services. If they're humming and the prices go to the prices fair Enough, they're good to go. I don't need to be bothered. I have a friend of mine who runs a 500 person law firm. He said to me, go shy. I won't meet with guys like you. He goes, you're my friend. I love you. We'll grab coffee, dinner, drinks, whatever you want. He goes, but why would I sit with the vendor? I just want this stuff done. I can go bill more hours. And especially lawyers today where their hours are now at risk because they can get 90% of what they used to do done now through AI or whatever the percentage is. So they themselves, their research and a lot of things are done more quickly. So their billing hours are going down. So, um, I, I think you're going to continue to see everyone trying to say, how can I get something done without talking to somebody? Like, um, for example, when I lived in la, I loved the sushi. In la. There was a kosher sushi joint a couple of blocks away from my house. I loved the sushi. I miss it today. Now living back in Ralkin County. But Alan, the guy used to answer the phone was so unpleasant that literally. It was so unpleasant that literally I said to my wife, I'm going to take, I'm going to swear off sushi from this joint. I can't deal with this guy. Again. A guy was so unpleasant and finally was uber eats. And I go, thank God. I'm back to ordering sushi. I don't need to talk to that guy. So there is all types of experiences. You know, by the way, not having to talk to somebody, there's no hold button. But if you're talking to somebody on WhatsApp. Ah. Or you're getting somebody on their phone, that's a great experience. I just think that experiences are all come in all shapes and sizes. You and I love that. Our clients know. Yes. If you need us, we're there for you and we'd love to be there.

Speaker B: Yeah. I have a client, I have, I have a couple of really large clients and it took a really long time to close the deals on them. And I was like, okay, well, every time we meet you guys tell me about all these problems you have. Yet you can't solve them because you're trying to solve a problem through email and your problems aren't getting solved. I said, we're here, we're ready to solve all your issues. And you know, once they see all that, they're like, okay, great, now, now things are moving a lot faster for them. It's like, I Tell people like, what are you doing? You're getting a bunch of five dollar and ten chargebacks. You know, you got to put all that on autopilot and just give people money back and lock them out of your systems. And you know, because that's a big huge business today is all these subscriptions instead of, or small micro payments instead of sitting there trying to fight all these chargebacks. And you know, you're spending more money on fighting a charge back than you are, you know, doing business. So you know, you have to look at everything from the standpoint of, you know, how to, how is this going to work? Even if you use the AI to do it, it's not going to work. You're going to be spending a lot of time to, to deal with bad, bad customers that you don't even want.

Speaker D: There's a lot of, a lot of wisdom of what you're saying and that's really the audit trail of expenses at businesses today. Um, even in a world of AI, audits are audits and expenses are expenses and business is business. So yes, AI might catch 95% of it one day, might catch 100% of it. You're going to have AI native businesses. Lovely, lovely, lovely. But at the same time always leave room for humans. We're still going to be needed.

Speaker B: So if people want to get so, so first let's give this, this. If you're going to give a new business owner three or four pieces of advice, what would it be?

Speaker D: Um, number one, um, okay, let me think this out for a second. 3, 4 pieces of advice for a new business owner

Speaker B: or any business owner. Doesn't matter.

Speaker D: Number one, Hustle. That's number one hustle. And when you feel you're tired, hustle harder. Number two is be packed with integrity. Integrity is a non negotiable have. Be packed with integrity with your investors, with your partners, with your clients, your employees, your vendors. Integrity. Integrity. Integrity. Always, always, always. Three, you have to refine your pitch all the time. Make sure that you're agenda, your pitch, your thesis, your strategy is constantly refined. The world is moving very, very quickly. And four, watch the cash, Watch the bottom number. Always watch where you spend. Watch where you spend. Watch where you spend. And if I could add on one more. Smile all the time. Be good Energy. You see Alan smile. Be good energy. People love to be around good energy. Energy. Be grateful, be humble, appreciate the opportunity that you're in. Appreciate this amazing environment and society that we live in with this new technology that we're all embracing. When you take these couple of things with you, you're going to have great success in life and in business.

Speaker B: So where can people get more information about what you're doing? They go to the Gotavi website. G o t a v I.co.co.com.

Speaker D: yep, we got them both now. So Gotavi, uh, dot com is one to my cell phone and now we'll put it out there. 917-579-3107. An email of course, Esther Gotabi.com but yeah, it's uh, everything's

Speaker B: there. And Shy is also on LinkedIn.

Speaker D: Yes, love LinkedIn. We don't speak about LinkedIn enough, but an absolutely incredible platform.

Speaker B: Right, okay, so any final words today?

Speaker D: Thank you Alan Shanava, and all the blessings to you and your family. When uh, I come down to Miami, gonna get together in person to have a good sandwich or a good salad, whatever your favorite food is.

Speaker B: We m go for a good shawarma. Uh,

Speaker D: there we go. A good shawarma in Miami Beach.

Speaker B: All right. So yeah, I mean it's very exciting what people are building out there. And you know, we're talk, we're, you know, we're watching what's going on and AI is exploding and all different types of companies and you know, you don't have to go the path of just signing up online for everything. You can deal with concierge type companies that are still out there that can help you, um, organize your business, grow your business and, and, and learn something from having conversations with people and not just having a conversation with Claude or open AI. Right.

Speaker D: If it works, it all works.

Speaker B: So uh, thanks for everybody for joining us on the show today. B2B vault, the biz to Biz podcast. Find us on Apple podcast and YouTube and Spotify and anywhere else you listen to podcast. And thank you again, Shy for joining us on the show. And peace out everybody. And I always say, carpe diem, seize the day. And uh, we'll give a big shout out to Boardy AI because he's the one that introduced us.