AI for Growth: Lessons from Leaders Jeff Sigel

Megan Driscoll: Thanks for joining AI for Growth Lessons from Leaders. Today I'm super excited. I have Jeff Siegel with me. And thanks for coming to the show.

Thanks for speaking to us today. I'd like to start off with, ⁓ you know, tell us a little bit about yourself. Tell us a little about your business as kind of an opener. Jeff Sigel: So first of all, thank you so much for having me on the show.

⁓ My background actually is in food marketing, so literally nothing to do with AI. And I spent many, many years working at ⁓ Nabisco, the Hershey company. ⁓ I worked for the parent company of Stop and Shop, for those of you in the Northeast. And then I worked at ⁓ Cracker Barrel.

⁓ I now say not recently, because there's been a little. Messiness at Cracker Bar. ⁓ And when I left, yeah, well, you know, kind of have to explain it. But anyway, yeah, absolutely.

Megan Driscoll: I think you leave that off your resume. No, no, Actually really, I like Cracker Barrel to be honest with you. Growing up, well in college, it was big in the South and I went there all the time. Jeff Sigel: Yeah, no, mean, everybody loves it.

But it's like, you know, you know how it goes. ⁓ So anyway, ⁓ but ⁓ after I left there, I went off and started my own ⁓ business. And so, ⁓ you know, actually, the first thing I did was I wrote a book, which you can see over my head here, which is called the middle matters, a toolkit for middle managers and got really into Megan Driscoll: Aina Hakos. Jeff Sigel: sort of thinking about the leadership lessons that I had learned over the course of my career.

And then at the same time, as I was kind of starting to get into this sort of leadership stuff and writing a book, my twin brother and I started to sort of think about how you can use AI for marketing. ⁓ And we were really fascinated by this idea of ⁓ digital twins ⁓ and ⁓ I guess being twins ourselves and this idea that how can you create an AI sort of version of someone ⁓ who, you know, maybe it's your the boss in a small company and they're trying to and so you need to have salespeople that don't understand how the business works or whatever it is ⁓ and you want them to understand it.

So couldn't you create essentially a twin of the boss where they could ask them questions or whatever and remove that bottleneck of the boss having to be in every conversation, every meeting. And so we started a company called twinning edge, you know, had to have a little dad pun in there. so that's what I you know, so that's what I do these days. Along with I do, you know, sort of, I'm also really fascinated in how AI is sort of playing into leadership.

My focus in the leadership work that I do is all about how you again, same kind of idea of how do I expand the leadership capacity? Megan Driscoll: Yeah, I love that. Jeff Sigel: ⁓ And so some of that is just how do you help people understand how to lead in a way that allows the team to accomplish more and some of it is actually around how you use AI to expand your leadership capabilities and so actually been doing a lot of You know trainings recently and I've got a bunch on the calendar for April around what I call boss GPT, which I'm sure we'll get to at some point There's a little story behind the idea of boss GPT, but this idea of how you can use ⁓ large language models to really expand your own capabilities as a leader.

Megan Driscoll: Yeah, well, and that's why I was really intrigued about having you on because I do, you know, the show is really about allowing people to see all the ways in which AI can help their businesses and help themselves and not just beyond sort of chat GPT and prompting like, you know, for a specific thing that they need, you know, but really embracing all the ways in which AI can support you. I do think... Jeff Sigel: Right. Megan Driscoll: You know, I do think this concept of utilizing AI for support in professional and personal ways.

You know, I think I've talked in the show before about how much I love Claude as a, like, advisor, mentor, ⁓ psychologist. You know, I've brought Claude with some problems with my kids and, things going on in my family. And I'm amazed at, like, the result. You know, when I get back the feedback, I'm like, Jeff Sigel: Yeah.

Absolutely. Right. Megan Driscoll: Yes, Claude, that sounds fantastic. I'm 100 % going to do that.

And I'm going to say it in exactly that way. And so I think it really is a very helpful tool to be able to understand that. talk a little bit about that, because I do think that. I think people underestimate how important prompting is and what exactly you're putting into it to get the right result.

So talk to us a little bit about what kind of prompting do you see as important for when you're, again, going at it from a leadership standpoint. Like, hey, this is the problem. Do you put in the actual email that you received and some context around it? how do you use it?

Jeff Sigel: Yeah, that's a great question. And I think the answer is yes. But it just depends on what I'm to accomplish. But I think I was just putting together, I'm doing a course on prompting in April for I know some folks at Missouri Cordia College, which is in Northeastern Pennsylvania.

So I'm going to be doing this course. And so was putting it together. one of the very first you know, sort of slides is what I call the anatomy of a good prompt, right? And the anatomy of a good prompt, I'm gonna go, I'll go one step further after this, but just at the basic level is what's the role that you want AI to play?

So if you want AI to be your executive coach, say I want you to be an executive coach, right? And tell it what to do. And in that sort of, mean, you know, know how... these things work, that sort of pushes the probabilities of what it says next to that kind of realm.

Then you obviously have to tell it the task you're asking it to do. So what is it I need you to do for me? It's helpful for you to tell it the audience, right? Like if you're writing an email, like I'm writing an email for, I actually use it a lot because I'm, I, you know, I guess maybe the thing that I'm least comfortable with, you know, in my business work is that I've sort of become.

de facto a salesperson and I was never a salesperson. I was always a marketer, which is different as you know. And so I'm always like trying to make that, how do I, I mean, I need to write this email for the CEO or I need to write this email for a CMO or whatever, or I'm talking to somebody who might be interested in individual coaching or whatever it is. So you have to tell the audience the context of what's going on.

Megan Driscoll: They're different. Jeff Sigel: It's helpful to tell the tone as well. Like what kind of you know, do you want to be serious? Do you want to be casual?

You know, you're trying to be funny, whatever it is. And then of course, the format of what you want the output. And then there's the other piece, which is giving it some constraints, the other constraints, like I want it to be no more than 150 words or whatever. So if you get the more specific, the more specific the context, you give it, the better reaction you'll get, the more broad you ask it for something, the more you get you know, just random stuff.

always say it's, I say, you know, chat GBT or whatever your favorite LLM is, is like the collective stupidity of the internet. If you start without any constraints, you're going to get just sort of this average response. Megan Driscoll: Mm-hmm. Jeff Sigel: And in fact, that's why, I mean, this is what hallucinations are basically like, like chat GBT and Claude and whatever, all they're doing is saying, hey, what's the next most likely word to put in this sentence?

And if the probabilities are like, well, this word's 10 % and this word's 9%, it's gonna pick the 10%, and that's how you get hallucinations, right? Because it's like, it's still picks something. I was saying to... to my wife last night, it's like, know, Chow GBT left to its own devices, sort of like a toddler with like an overconfidence problem.

Like it thinks it knows everything because it doesn't, it's not designed to sort of be like, hey, I don't really know the, occasionally you'll get an I don't know the answer to that, but most of the time it's like, it'll just pick the next word and it'll tell you something and you have to go with it. The way to deal with that is to really constrain it, give it a clear body of information to. Megan Driscoll: Yeah. Right.

Jeff Sigel: to work with. Yeah. Megan Driscoll: in the setup. Yeah, that's really helpful.

also think that ⁓ people don't do this enough either, which is like, tell me all the reasons why this won't work. Give me all the negative. Where could this go wrong? And then there's more discernment there, right?

⁓ Because I have found that it never tells me that my idea is Jeff Sigel: Yes. Yeah. Right. Megan Driscoll: You know, I mean my idea is always amazing and I should absolutely do it And so what I've started to do is say is there a downside to this Are you aware of are you aware of something that someone else has done where this has backfired or how could this?

⁓ How could I be embarrassed by this or how could this turn out in a different outcome than the one I've said that I want? You know the desired outcome and that has been really helpful to get like some some well Jeff Sigel: Right. Absolutely. Megan Driscoll: there's this situation where, and then you're like, ⁓ OK, all right, so I should consider that, you know?

⁓ Jeff Sigel: Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you can also ask it, you know, take the opposite perspective.

You know, using. Yeah. Yeah. Are you against me?

Are you, you know, or even to say, hey, you know, ask it to. Megan Driscoll: Yes. argue against me. Jeff Sigel: you know, ask it to first, you know, say, write an email and then say, play the role of my boss, ⁓ edit, you know, as a, you know, my tough, difficult, you know, boss or whatever, and edit this and don't, you know, be honest, you know, don't don't hold back, ⁓ you know, tell me what the negatives are, I really want this to be, you know, I really want to make this email better, and actually have it critique its own work is an interesting thing as well.

You can absolutely get it to do that. Sometimes I'll take it, sometimes I'll take ⁓ the output from one conversation and just start a new chat to see if we can get the history out of the context window because it sometimes gets stuck in this like, ⁓ I'm talking about the same thing. I've been talking about it over and over again. ⁓ Megan Driscoll: Right.

Do you think, when we talk about AI replacing people, Because I do think that it is going to replace a certain level of person within an organization. ⁓ And I've had a lot of conversations with people about the humanity of this. I personally don't think that it will ever be not. Jeff Sigel: ⁓ huh.

Mm. Megan Driscoll: necessary to constrain through human eyes. I always feel like there will be a necessity for someone to be there managing kind of the output, if you will, right? Like, and providing some human oversight.

⁓ I just can't see us completely ⁓ autonomous, like, really running and just being like, yeah, I mean, sure, we'll do whatever, like, you know, and it's running off behind the scenes. But I do think that it can replace and especially, especially in this space of, I'm very interested to see what happens in the space of coaching. Okay. So it has blossomed, right?

mean, 15 years ago, a coach was like someone with a whistle on a field, right? You know, and now we have coaches for everything. ⁓ do you see. Jeff Sigel: Mmm.

Right. Megan Driscoll: Where do you see this fitting into that industry and like the impact that it could have on the industry? And have you thought at all about like ways in which coaches can mitigate for that? how do you see that in that space?

Because as a coach too, you know, this is affecting you in real time. So I'm interested in your thoughts on that. Jeff Sigel: Well, I'm gonna shoehorn in here the boss GPT story if you don't mind, because I think it's sort of relevant to this point is, I always tell people, first of all, prompting isn't new, right? ⁓ And the idea of boss GPT came about ⁓ probably about a year and a half ago.

I was talking to this woman that I know, she had set up lunch. ⁓ She's actually from the advancement office of my the university where I got my MBA or whatever. And she set up, she was going to be in Boston and she's like, I'd to have lunch with you. And I'm like, great.

I'm going to get asked for money, whatever. But she didn't ask me for money. had read my book and she said, you know, I need some help. She said, my boss is a micromanager.

It's kind of soul crushing. What do I do? And I said, so I was like, Megan Driscoll: which is very common story, unfortunately. I hear that all the time.

My boss is a micromanager. I'm like, yeah, well, welcome to corporate America. Jeff Sigel: Well, you know, I told her what I always tell people. like, well, listen, you know, this is what you need to do.

And we basically answered a micromanager is I call it feeding the beast. Give them all the details until they go back off or whatever. I'm good. know, ⁓ because really, too much too much.

I'm good. You've got it covered. And so, you know, she goes off and like a couple of months later, she comes back ⁓ to me. She was back in Boston and she's talking to me and it's Megan Driscoll: ⁓ Too many, too many, too much management.

Jeff Sigel: now January and she says, you know, we're having coffee and she says, Jeff, I was like, how's it going? And she's like, Jeff, it was going great. ⁓ and I was like, what do mean was going great? And she goes, well, everything got better when I did the things you said.

And then I went on vacation for two weeks. And when I came back, my boss was like right back to the way she was, like she had completely changed. And now she's back to the way she was. And I go, you, I should Yeah, because she didn't change.

I you can't change your boss. All you can do is change the way you're prompt your boss. It's like boss GPT. ⁓ And, and ⁓ I said, and the way you know this is because we stopped prompting her, she just went back to her default, right?

And so, so I said to her, if you go back to prompting this person, in a way that, you know, whatever way you were doing before, they will change, right? And So the reason I sort of bring that story up is because what's fascinating is that AI, these LLMs are not, we always say, ⁓ some people say me, Jeff, that's such a great analogy. And I'll say, no, it's not an analogy. The analogy is the GPT, right?

That Generative Pre-trained Transformer, the LLM, right? Is the analogy. It's literally built to behave. you know, at some level the way we do and it's pretty good, right, you can have a conversation.

And so the fact that you can, we now have a tool that you that functions in the way that we, you know, that we function as humans in terms of the way it responds and so forth, means that you can now practice conversations, you can now, you know, you can now prompt it to behave like a human so that you can sort of have a conversation with that. you know, with the LLM and simulate. And so a lot of things that ⁓ I, when I'm talking about leadership and AI is you can use it to assess how you're, you you're thinking, you can use it to interview you, you can use it to simulate a conversation.

There's so many different ways you can use it like a human. So to get to your question about coaching is very cool that we now have this tool. that not only behaves, you know, can behave like a coach, but can also essentially behave like your boss, right? And you can basically say, let's simulate this.

Now, to your question of a, it's an interesting question about whether it's going to take over the coaching industry or whatever. I will admit that I use, I don't know why I tend to use Chat GBT, but that's my sort of LLM of choice. I use it all the time as a coach. In fact, I've uploaded my whole book into a GPT and, and, you know, we'll ask it questions and see how it would coach something or whatever.

⁓ So it's definitely a nice tool that people can use to kind of coach themselves. And I think, to your question, is it going to take over coaching? You know, I don't know. I think people crave some kind of human connection and also the the, it's great for sort of coaching kind of, I don't know, I'll call it surface scenarios, but when you have like a broad set of, you know, challenges that would kind of go across, you know, multiple kind of issues and whatever, I would say it kind of isn't, it stops being quite as good, right?

It can't, it's not, you know, it, it, has a, you know, it has this, you we've talked, we talked about this idea of the context window. It has a context, but it's not unlimited. Megan Driscoll: Yeah. Right.

Jeff Sigel: Whereas, you know, we sort of as human coaches and whatever can sort of see patterns across, know, you know, 20 sessions or whatever it is and kind of go over. Right. Megan Driscoll: Well, there's that there's a time piece that I think that that that doesn't matter which LLM you're using can't quite understand. Right.

Like it's it's I do think that it does refer often to things you've obviously it's learning about you and continue to learn about you. But in terms of like very specifically like a niche, it'd be interesting to see if that can happen is is can you can you create meeting rooms? Right. So gather.

Jeff Sigel: Right. Right. Megan Driscoll: all the conversations that we've ever had about my workplace and put them in a workplace meeting room. Right.

And now I get into that meeting room and you are to pull off of all the things I've said before. And now let me tell you this new problem. Jeff Sigel: Right. Yes, absolutely.

Yeah. Well, you know, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So you can do something. There's a couple of interesting things.

mean, obviously within, you know, the the the big sort of the big LLMs ⁓ you can create, you know, in chat. You can create a project where you basically feed it documents, past conversations. Megan Driscoll: And that's kind of what you developed, right? I mean, that is kind of Boss GPT.

yeah, like tell us a little bit about that. Jeff Sigel: you can like I said, I uploaded my book you can give it you know, you Megan Driscoll: That's true. I guess I was thinking about that more for work-based stuff, but now we're talking about more the humanistic thing. I guess you could start a project which was workplace drama.

Jeff Sigel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you basically say like, here's a project for like, I, you know, dealing with actually have somebody I was talking with last summer who, you know, actually, to your point about coaching, she was thinking about coaching.

And then I mentioned this idea of creating a twin and she was having trouble with a co worker. And she says she creates a sort of mini twin of this, excuse me, of this co worker. And, and basically was like, it was so good. It helped me figure out what to say to this person, whatever.

And so if you're this little sort of project of like, this is this person that I have to deal with, like, I mean, you could absolutely do it that way. You can create. Megan Driscoll: Yeah, so want to pause on this because I think this is a good kind, because again, I hadn't, I don't think I've talked a lot about project folders ⁓ on the show at all. And I think it's a good point to talk about this.

So in ChatGPT, when you pay to play, essentially, if you're in free ChatGPT, you can't do it. But if you pay for the monthly subscription, which is often not that expensive, and I don't know if this is true, and I really use ChatGPT primarily and Claude. Those are my two kind of favorite go-tos. ⁓ Jeff Sigel: Yeah, that's right.

Megan Driscoll: So, and then once you start working with them, one, it's like, kind of want to stick with it because again, the history, the understanding of who you are, but you can actually go in and you can set up projects and those projects can be for anything. And essentially when you go to work on that thing, again, you open up that project and it is able to pull off of all the information you've shared with it previously. If you just use the main chat, it won't be able to do that.

And it will say, I don't remember you're mentioning this person, but I don't remember that person. I don't know anything about that history. I don't save that stuff. Jeff Sigel: Right.

Megan Driscoll: It does when you put it into a project folder. So that's the benefit of doing projects. ⁓ and so what you're saying and what we're now talking about is, and I hadn't thought about this, which again, it's just like, we're continuing our brain. There's so much, it's like hard to wrap your brain around it, but we could actually set up projects that are based on people or problems, ⁓ or whatever it is.

And so, okay. So she actually set up a project as her coworker that she was struggling with and fed it all this information. And then basically what you're saying is. Jeff Sigel: So much you can do.

Megan Driscoll: would come back after having a conversation, reload that in, and kind of get next steps. Is that how she did it? Jeff Sigel: Yeah, I mean, I think I think I don't know exactly whether she was doing it that way. But what I imagine she was doing was she created this project.

And like you said, I mean, the great thing, my favorite example for a project, you know, this is a very simple example is like if you have to write a lot of proposals, you essentially upload examples of proposals that you've written in into a project. And then you have your proposal writing project. And every time you want to write a proposal, you just go in and you basically say, here's the bullet point details that are different about this proposal. But use my typical a proposal template, and it will spit out a proposal based on the template you've uploaded in there.

You can, you could also do that by just uploading the, you know, a proposal document every time and doing that. But if you have a project, you don't have to do that. You just, and it will get better and better over time at doing that. There's no reason why you couldn't do that with sort of this idea of, you know, that kind of a twin idea that I was talking about of I actually have like a project that's essentially a person.

I have no idea by the way, whether HR people are like totally cringing when I say that, but you absolutely can do that. Yeah. Yeah. Megan Driscoll: Well, it's your own personal space.

mean, it's like also it's, you know, I mean, I think I'm sure HR people are cringing on having folders for people within your chat. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's not something you'd want to be running on your work computer for sure. Keep that in mind people please.

Cause that could get you into trouble no matter what. But I do think that it, I do think that it's your own personal space. It's like a journal. Jeff Sigel: My boss is a total whatever you know Right.

Yes, yeah. Megan Driscoll: It's just an online journal. mean, again, though, it does get to this place where you think about like, ⁓ and I don't think about this actually, and I know people who are concerned about privacy do think about it. I just don't think about it.

⁓ I guess I don't really, I never really care what people know about me. Maybe that's just like not, I don't know. just don't really, I don't really care that someone is learning something about me specifically. Like there's nothing I would ever put in there that I would, I mean, I'm not.

Jeff Sigel: Yeah. Yeah. Megan Driscoll: running an illegal operation. I'm not anything, right?

I mean, I've had the run-of-the-mill problems that I have or problems that most people have. And if somebody found out I had a problem, I wouldn't care. Do you think about privacy with regard to what you put in there? Like, how do you think about that?

Jeff Sigel: Ha ha ha. Right. You know, it's a funny question. mean, I'll think back to, know, I wrote my book, ⁓ I published it in June of 24, so almost two years ago.

And it was right around the time that people were just starting to like use, you know, ⁓ chat GBT and some of the other LLMs. And I was like, yeah, I'm just gonna upload it up here and see what happens and see how, you know, what does it know about my book and whatever. ⁓ you know, I mean, I like to write so I don't write articles, you know, with chat GBT, I write them by hand still. But it was interesting because one day I was my you my actually was my brother was sort of, you know, playing around with I think he was the first one to upload my book into ⁓ chat GBT.

And I one day I was he's like, test this out, you know, see how it does. And so I tested it out and I go and I asked it to write the article that I was writing and I was kind of struggling with the article that I was writing at the time and it wrote it and I'm like, this is actually better than what I was working on. Right, my whole book, right? So it has my writing style, it has my tone and whatever.

So I ended up rewriting my article. I didn't use what it wrote, but I rewrote it using its structure and whatever. So I guess my answer to your question is I've never worried about it. Megan Driscoll: Well, because you had fed it your writing style.

Yeah. Jeff Sigel: there was somebody I was working with at the time who had also written a book was like, I don't want to put my book in there. Everybody's gonna have access to the information. I'm sitting like, to me, I'm like, great.

The more people who have access to like, Jeff Segal's information, the more people are going to be like, ⁓ I want to talk to Jeff Segal, right? Not like, you know, you know, and the other thing is, the other thing I guess I feel about privacy, it's a little bit like, you know, it's like a, you know, I mean, wouldn't put my social security number in there. But you know, like, Megan Driscoll: Yeah, right. Jeff Sigel: But it's a little bit of like a drop of information in an ocean.

Like, if you ask chat GBT for how do I deal with my micromanaging boss, it may pull off of articles I've posted or my book or something because I've uploaded or whatever it is, it might do it, but you'll never know exactly what it is. so, you know, I guess, you know, the way I think about it is, you know, it's funny, if you go back and I would sort of go back to like various times in human history, right? Like it used to be that being intellectual in a long time ago was the ability to basically memorize and repeat word for word something that somebody else wrote or said, right?

And then intellectual was the ability to literally copy, write out the same thing that somebody else had put into a previous book, right? And it's only been in this, you know, kind of the last, I don't know, whatever, couple hundred years where we've come sort of obsessed with this idea of plagiarism, people stealing ideas and whatever like, but and I get it, I don't want to take away from people's ability to create and own their content. But on the other hand, it's like this idea that, you know, the ideas that people come up with are totally new to the world, nobody's ever thought of, has always been ridiculous.

I mean, even like, you can go back to Shakespeare. mean, Shakespeare draws off of all kinds of old stories and, you know, and historical things and biblical references and whatever it is, like, like, and yet he put it together in this really unique and new way. And so that's kind of my take on this is I think that what's going to happen is our, our view. of what is acceptable and how you use information that already exists and whatever, is just going to adapt to the tool, just like it did when the printing press came out and whatever it is.

It just hasn't been enough time for us to adapt. I do think it's fascinating. I'm sure you've come across this argument is I was teaching ⁓ marketing at ⁓ UMass Boston last year. ⁓ Megan Driscoll: Yeah.

Jeff Sigel: And ⁓ in the first semester I taught, it was like the students are using AI to cheat. And the second semester I taught, the attitude was, ⁓ my God, we need to train our students how to use AI because this is a tool that they're going to need in the workplace. Like there's this evolving view of what is the role of AI, how do we use it, what's acceptable, and so forth. So.

Megan Driscoll: Yes. I think we initially were like, whoa, hold on. You're cheating. You're working around, right?

And I think it became very clear, especially within higher education, that there's no going back. And so how do we embrace it and still teach people how to think? How do we teach people how to think? I've actually become, as this is sort of an unrelated topic, but I've become very committed to a liberal arts education because of this piece about Jeff Sigel: Yes.

Right. Yeah. Megan Driscoll: ⁓ I do think that's a really well, let's learn a lot of different things. You know, let's get a lot of different perspectives.

Let's not say we're going to focus just on one thing and hopefully learn how to problem solve in a variety of different ways. And that problem solving skill, the ability to communicate those ideas, I think that can be like the defining factor, like, because the technology is just going to be there. Everyone's going to be using it. It allows someone who doesn't go to college.

Jeff Sigel: Right. Right. Megan Driscoll: who doesn't need a higher education, doesn't want one, it's a real equalizer, I think, in terms of opportunity. ⁓ So what is the college education going to be?

What value does it then have? And I think it has this ability to teach people how to think. ⁓ And how to higher level use these tools ⁓ and think forward about what they'll be like. What will the world be like in five years?

And how do we... ⁓ Jeff Sigel: Right. Right. Absolutely.

Megan Driscoll: constrain that, be part of it, own it, develop it, right? Like how is that gonna be? It's really, have, my kids are, one is in college and one is in high school, so I do think about like what does the economic world look like for them? What do the career opportunities look like for them?

⁓ Beyond just scammering to say, well I'm gonna be a nurse, because everybody needs to be a nurse, you know? I think there's like a mentality of like, ⁓ I better become a plumber, and we are gonna need those things. I mean absolutely they're gonna be of a high value, but there'll be a lot of. Jeff Sigel: Yeah.

Megan Driscoll: there'll be a lot of opportunity, you know? And so it's like, where is it gonna go? It's kind of like just super exciting, you know? Jeff Sigel: Yeah, it is.

I have this thing that I this slide that I sometimes put in presentations and it shows a picture of like fire, a wheel and AI. And basically I always say when I pop that slide up on the screen, I say, when in human history has a new technology ever led to fewer jobs? ⁓ And then I said, let's go back to fire. Before there was fire, there were no cooks.

Before there was the wheel, there were no Uber drivers and so forth. Megan Driscoll: Yeah, it's true. You're right. Jeff Sigel: Right.

And so the thing that's there's two things that I think are happening right now. One is we're in the middle of it. We're in the middle of this change. And it's hard to imagine what happens.

But I kind of look back on the last I mean, I'm a marketer in the last 25 years, 26 years, or whatever it is that I've been in marketing, because I got out of business school right around, you know, 2000 2001. Megan Driscoll: Mm-hmm. Jeff Sigel: marketing has completely changed. There are so many jobs that didn't exist.

There were no SEO marketers and maybe they're what we were talking about that before. Maybe they're you know, maybe there won't be in the future. But there were no SEO marketers. There was no such thing as tick tock.

You know, all this content marketing stuff only happened because we all started you know, walking around with a video camera in our pocket, right? Right. Megan Driscoll: completely. Maybe won't be in the future.

Yeah. The influencer, I mean an influencer 10 years ago like. Jeff Sigel: Right. But well, because I was, I mean, the idea like, mean, it used to be, I mean, I'm sure you remember, I mean, like, when we, when I was a kid, you had to go get your film developed, right?

Like, like, and then if you wanted to video, you had to like get it, you had a big clunky video camera. Now you literally video anything, and you video yourself talking, whatever, you know, the technology has allowed there to be different kinds of marketing. And I think the reality is the same thing's going to happen with AI. So we're sitting here going Megan Driscoll: Yes.

Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. Jeff Sigel: AI is disrupting all these jobs that exist today, but we can't see the future state where AI has created new jobs because we have this new tool.

I will say, I think the thing that's different, that's really, think, and I suspect we as a civilization have not really thought through at the level we really need to think through is the speed at which disruption is happening is so much faster. than anything we've ever seen before. And so what's going to happen is you are going to have timeframes where people are displaced. And I'm seeing I do work, you some of the work I do is with, ⁓ with job seekers.

And, and ⁓ there's definitely a lot of job seekers out there. And every day, I feel like I see those green, you know, out, you know, looking for work thing, even more and more. ⁓ Actually, by the way, great usage for AI is from a job seeker perspective is I always tell people you need to practice interviewing but not by memorizing your background but by by get practicing curveball questions. So one of my favorite things is have chat GPT ask you, you know, one question at one curveball question a day, use use the voice interface, actually talk to it, have it talk back to you and practice the interview and then ask it to assess your answer and get better and better.

Megan Driscoll: Yes. Yes. It's a great tool for that. Especially you upload your resume, you upload the job that you've applied for, and you basically can upload the LinkedIn profile, the person you're gonna interview with, and all of a sudden it's like using this person's background, what do you think they're gonna be asking me based on the information I've shared with you?

And you can absolutely have a full blown mock interview, again, which just is ⁓ a tool that, again, I don't think people are really using, but are very helpful. ⁓ So we need to wrap up a little bit, because we're getting towards time. This has been an amazing 30 minutes. I loved talking to you.

Jeff Sigel: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Megan Driscoll: Tell me a little bit about where people can find you, like if they want to learn about BossGPT more, like yeah, so tell me more about that. Jeff Sigel: GPT. Yeah, so I guess what I'll do is I'll send people to my my, my, ⁓ my leadership website, which is simply ⁓ Jeff Siegel, J E F F S I G E L dot com. ⁓ And you can find it there.

All articles about everything from boss, G B T leadership, ⁓ coaching, training and all that kind of work ⁓ that that I do with folks to help them sort of expand. their leadership capacity. Megan Driscoll: Amazing. Awesome.

Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. was such a great 30 minutes. I loved learning about, think, again, this is just a new perspective that people can hear on how they can utilize these LLMs in really profound different ways. So thank you so much for talking to us.

Jeff Sigel: Awesome. Thanks so much for having me.