AI for Growth: Lessons from Leaders Dr.Karen Jacobs

Megan Driscoll: Welcome to AI for Growth Lessons from Leaders. Today I have with me Karen Jacobs. ⁓ I am really excited about conversation. It's a little bit different than what I've normally done as it's not directly related to small businesses, but I think it's relevant to most people who, and anyone who has children.

⁓ So Karen, can you introduce and tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do? Karen Jacobs: Well, Megan, thank you for having me on your podcast. I'm delighted to be here. So I am an occupational therapist.

I'm a clinical professor in occupational therapy at Boston University. I'm the program director of the online doctorate. It's a post-professional doctorate in occupational therapy. And I've been at Boston University for over 40 years.

Megan Driscoll: 40 years, that's unbelievable. That's so cool. Right? Exactly.

I always say that to myself too. Like what happened this year? How did we get to 2026? I don't even know.

Well, I wanted to have you on because I do think there are like, obviously incredible changes happening in school, in school in general, both at the lower levels and certainly in college. And I've seen this with, I've mentioned to you, I have a daughter who's a junior in college and I have a junior in high school. Karen Jacobs: Where does the time go? Megan Driscoll: You know, my daughter will share things with me that she's created for school.

And I'll say, this is not your work. Like you, I know you, and I know you didn't do this. ⁓ you know, so what are the parameters by which you're allowed to use AI are always my question back. So I it'd be really fun to have you on to talk about how AI is changing higher education.

⁓ and maybe we could just start more broadly about like just sort of your general thoughts about it. Karen Jacobs: Yes, well, I love talking about this topic because in my career ⁓ in teaching and as an occupational therapist, I have never seen something as disruptive as AI. ⁓ And we can look at it in both a positive way and we can look at it as challenges too. I like to think of myself as an early adopter and I have embraced that AI is here to stay ⁓ as an occupational therapist.

therapist, ⁓ I don't feel that it's going to replace me in my role, but it's going to be a thought partner. It's going to augment some of the things I'm doing and it's the same for our students and for future clinicians and clinicians in general. But I think everyone needs to have a really good understanding about what is AI and what are sort of the guardrails ⁓ when you're doing we'll talk about your children in particular ⁓ when you have an assignment. And here's where ⁓ as an educator we have an enormous responsibility.

We need to share with our students how they can use AI, when they can use AI, and not making it a mystery ⁓ and to guide them in its use. And so I think we need to have documents and reinforce, you know, the ethical and responsible way of using AI. And one of the things that, you know, I always tell other faculty members to do, and I'm not sure if on a junior high level, on a high school level, they'll have a syllabus that will have a disclosure about the use of AI, but I'd like to encourage all ⁓ faculty in any context to be very transparent about the use of AI.

⁓ that perhaps AI use is not appropriate for their class, but they need to be explicit about it. Megan Driscoll: Do you think that's sort of interesting the way you're describing it. You're almost describing it like it's anyone's decision, like that each individual clinician, each individual professor can decide whether or not they are allowing it or not allowing it and the parameters by which they are allowing it. Is it not something that's being taken on at the university level?

Like is Boston University saying, hey, this is our standard approach with the use of AI for our students. You may adjust. slightly, but here's where we stand. Or are they not giving that kind of guidance?

Are they letting it up to professors to decide? Karen Jacobs: Well, every university is different and every department and college is different, but I'm proud to be at Boston University. They had a task force to look at AI. ⁓ We have a wonderful resource, IATA, AIDA, where faculty can go for tools and students as well and guidance.

But they're letting faculty have autonomy in how they decide they want to use it in their courses. Now a department could say, know, as a department we have certain, you know, rules. ⁓ For my own post-professional doctorate and occupational therapy program, we developed guidelines for our faculty and guidelines ⁓ that they could share with their students. But we give them autonomy and I think that's very important.

Now I can't speak for every university, every high school, every junior high school, ⁓ what they're doing. But I like that we have autonomy in making that decision. it can be a challenge for students. So one professor might say, yes, you can use it for this assignment.

And another professor might say, you can't use it at all. And so where I think the issue is that we need as faculty to really take ownership is to communicate really transparently and also explicitly ⁓ what students can do or can't do with AI. Megan Driscoll: Do you think, ⁓ so I think it's interesting that it's kind of like ⁓ choose your own adventure a little bit, you know? ⁓ And that there aren't like really standard practices across universities.

I would bet that that's the case at most schools, that it's a little bit of like, I I feel like we're kind of in the wild, wild west a little bit. ⁓ Some of the data coming out is like blowing my mind as an example. Within one month, 10 % Well, so if 30 % of people were searching for things on AI in March, 40 % of people were searching for things through AI and not on Google in April. I mean, that is how fast.

So you're basically looking at by the end of the year, 90 % of all searches will be done in an AI engine and not in Google, as an example. And so we just think about the speed to which things are happening. I can appreciate that it's a little bit of the wild, wild west out there. ⁓ Karen Jacobs: Mm-hmm.

Megan Driscoll: What do you think, you know, so as an example, so here I am as a parent and I have asked to see a project that my daughter's doing or she's asked for me to look at it. And I look at it and I know immediately it's quite good, obviously. ⁓ And it's very professional and she didn't do it. You know, I mean, that's the point.

She didn't do it. She did the prompting and she was able to put it together. so. What do you think a parent should be saying to their child about the use of AI and like what's good advice for us to communicate to our kids?

Karen Jacobs: I love that question. ⁓ I think, first of all, it's starting off with asking your child, what has your faculty member or teacher said about the use of AI? And to find out that information first, because the teacher might say, here is a question I'd like you to prompt AI and give me what the prompt is. me what you found ⁓ and then now take that and put it into your own words.

Of course, have a disclosure. You you use Grammarly and now Grammarly, you know, ⁓ is sometimes, depending on the publisher, not even considered AI anymore. It seems to be built into the infrastructure of people, what people are using for writing. Or, you know, did you use another tool?

And I think it's really important. for parents to ask their child first, what did your teacher say you could use with AI? And sit down with them. I think a tool that is or a skill that's really critical for your child and all children as they use AI is to develop prompt engineering skills.

That's going to be something really, really important. ⁓ And perhaps that could be something you could do with your child. Let's sit down. Let's take that.

same assignment and let's think about how you might prompt it differently. Let's see the outcome. Let's look at that. Let's check it.

Let's verify everything. And that's another question that you could ask your child when you got that assignment that didn't sound at all like how he or she writes. ⁓ How did you verify that that information is accurate? And I think that's a nice interaction for a parent and a child.

to look at, you know, rather than say, I know you didn't do this, to say, well, let us rewind. Megan Driscoll: That's what I said. You Karen Jacobs: I am sure that what you said, many parents probably have done the same. And perhaps faculty or teachers have done the same with students.

⁓ I don't want them to feel shameful because having a skill like prompt engineering is something they're going to need when they're out in the work world. ⁓ We want people to develop ⁓ confidence and competency in AI. That is the world. that they are entering into as a worker.

⁓ And so we can guide them. and work with them and say, you where did you get that information? Let's make sure it's accurate. One of the things that's extremely important because we do know that AI can confabulate or hallucinate and you can get a lot of misinformation.

So one of the things I always say to anyone using AI is make sure you verify it. So, you know, you get a journal article and it could be made up. know I've looked and I've seen my name coming out of AI on articles. I've never, I don't even know that content.

So now you go back and you check and you verify everything. So now we're going to go back with your child and the next time they show you an assignment, let's go look at how you did that and did you verify the information. Megan Driscoll: Well, I can assure you she's probably not going to share with me again after my reaction. ⁓ But I do think, again, we're in our uncharted territory.

This conversation that I had with her about her project was a year ago. would certainly reply. That's how fast things are changing. would certainly.

Karen Jacobs: I'm sorry. Megan Driscoll: reply differently today in making the assumption that you would be using AI. I went from thinking, right, like you shouldn't be using AI at all. You need to be learning this stuff to this year being like, well, if you don't learn this stuff in AI, you're not going to have a job anyway.

You know? So ⁓ even my thinking has changed so much and I work so much with AI and helping come. Karen Jacobs: So thank Megan Driscoll: I have basically, what I do is I essentially help companies implement AI solutions primarily to revenue and sales ⁓ problems essentially. So creating systems in place that are automated and that are using AI in the background to help companies grow.

That's what I do. so now I've just really come to the, I've been very concerned. Let's talk about this too, because this really concerns me. Job market's really bad right now, for new grads especially.

⁓ Karen Jacobs: sure. Megan Driscoll: There are multiple people that I actually do know whose kids have moved back home and who have been looking for a job for six months and can't find it. And I don't necessarily think these are jobs, these are people seeking jobs in the space where you work, occupational therapy, you know, sort of what we're talking about, healthcare and nursing. And although a lot of that will change significantly too, I think those are going to be affected a little bit later ⁓ when we get more into like robotics, you know, where robotics will be doing phlebotomy as an example, ⁓ you know.

All kinds of things. ⁓ We probably in 10 years, we'll all have robots living in our kitchen doing all of our cooking and cleaning for us. ⁓ Which is like Jetson, right? Days.

I can't even imagine it. But one of the things that I am concerned about is the job market for new grads who are coming out. And so I'm wondering, like, what are you hearing from the university about that? Like, what is your understanding from your perspective as a professor at BU about what you're seeing in real time with students?

and what BU is saying about it. Karen Jacobs: Yes. Well, you know, I'm in a health field and, you know, immediately right now we're not seeing ⁓ a gigantic impact. In fact, we are probably seeing more of an impact of efficiency and documentation ⁓ and people saying, yes, you know, I'm nervous about this.

⁓ And, you know, maybe I'm not an early adopter, but I know that this is reality and I have to develop skills. I think in general, I can't speak for BU and what they're saying. But I think we're all looking at how we can ⁓ prepare our students for this reality and what can we help them develop skills in that will make them marketable. And again, I go into this prompt engineering as being very, very important because you can pivot ⁓ when you have that skill to do many other things.

⁓ developing a competency in AI and I mentioned a competence in it is critical so that you can be flexible in the job market and so you might see an advertisement for a certain job and there may be hundreds of people applying to that job. What you might be able to say is I have this distinct skill. that I've developed that sets me apart. I think thinking about what that distinct skill that can set you apart is critical.

And I'd love to throw that back at you, this question. What are you seeing ⁓ employers looking for with a very competitive job market with a lot of people out there looking for perhaps the same job? You know, what could strengthen someone? ⁓ as a future employee.

Megan Driscoll: You know, I agree with you. think AI skill is ⁓ not only going to be hugely important, it is something that could differentiate you. I fear, though, that it becomes something that's like you put it on your resume and it doesn't really mean anything. And so an organization very quickly realizes, well, everyone's going to put that on their resume because why not?

Anybody can say they are proficient in AI, but what are they actually showing for it? ⁓ So that is my concern, that it becomes kind of like a Karen Jacobs: Yes. Megan Driscoll: you know, like a non-critical thing that nobody really cares about because it's not really true. So I do think though, and I've talked to my son about this as a junior in high school, you know, there are some summer programs and some actually schools, like I know Stanford, I think UCLA as well, a couple other schools are actually providing an AI certification for high school students and for college students.

Karen Jacobs: sure. Megan Driscoll: I think getting something like that would be really important where you're actually putting your money where your mouth is and not just kind of listing that you are AI proficient in any way in the skills section, but you're actually saying I was certified and took this class and really took it seriously. So that's the thing that I think, what I'm advising my children and what I think that ⁓ other parents should be thinking about is gaining an actual certification in.

⁓ Again, it's not just, you know, it's the prompt engineering. It's the whole mindset. You know, one of the things that I think has come up quite a bit, I've learned through this podcast, which I primarily speak to small business owners who are trying to utilize AI. They're far and away ahead of business owners who are in a wait and see category, which to be honest is the majority.

And quite honestly, what scares me about that number when you look at the numbers and I can't quote them now, but Karen Jacobs: search. Megan Driscoll: If we talk about like 100%, right, if there's 100 % of the group that's not really engaging in AI yet, so they're concerned about it, the majority of those people are female owners. So women are actually not adopting or are taking more of a wait and see attitude with this than their male counterparts. So that's gonna further set back female entrepreneurs, which as a female entrepreneur, ⁓ that makes me worried ⁓ because my feeling on this is that...

If you're not even, if you're not able to bolt on AI, right? So you didn't build your company with AI in mind, right? Because your company has been in existence already starting right now, right? Even if you started your company a year ago, you really didn't build it with AI in mind.

Most people didn't. And so you're running a traditional company and you need to bolt on AI into it, right? That's like a second best. The first best thing to do.

is to like literally forget everything that you know about business ownership and start completely over creating an AI forward, right? Where like you're thinking about when you're thinking about I'm going to hire someone, you're like, no, I'm not going to hire someone. I'm going to train an AI agent. I'm going to have an AI agent working for me because that person can work 24 seven and the guy that is free, or I could hire someone.

It's going to hit my bottom line. I'm going have to train them. They may not work out and they can only work nine to five and I have to pay them benefits. Right?

Like that's just a right. This is happening right now. Karen Jacobs: No, I agree with you. And I actually want to go back to our certification.

Boston University was right on top of that. And they created a very robust certification for all of our students. It's optional, but all of them can do it. I've gone through it myself.

And it's quite good. And for myself, I have been doing that so that I can put on my resume that I did this Harvard Macy training. Megan Driscoll: ⁓ good. Fantastic.

Karen Jacobs: or whatever other things. So I think you're totally right. I do think some soft skills are still important, those interpersonal skills, that you're a team player and those are still important to reinforce. I do wanna say how you and I met was through an organization called Women Advancing AI.

And I think that all... interested entrepreneurs and women in general should seek out women advancing AI because that community is growing and we're there to support each other. So I think you're totally right about ⁓ entrepreneurship, the people who are standing by saying, ⁓ I just think it's gonna go away ⁓ or, you know, I'm just kind of reluctant. ⁓ I do think having a community that's there to support you.

⁓ A business consultant like you, who's there to provide wisdom and guidance is really important because we do need to get on board. It's not going away. Megan Driscoll: Yeah. No, it's not going away.

not only that, too, I think it's accelerating in such a speed that it's almost hard to like really understand and imagine. I'll be ⁓ there's going to be a podcast coming out, I think in June or July with a. She's kind of like a leader founder of AI. I when you talk about she was doing kind of AI and large language learning models, like in the nineties.

And she actually exclusively works with companies like Nike and Pepsi and she advises them. And, and one of the things that she said to me, which was really quite frightening actually, she said that she thinks that 90 % of small businesses will be obsolete in three years. If they haven't at a very minimum bolted on AI as I've described, but that even if they're bolting it on, it's going to be really, really hard to survive because she, you Her description of this is she starts and exits companies all the time.

And she started a company two weeks ago and she already has 50 people working for her, 50 people, AI people working for her. She's like, you just can't compete with me. It's like impossible. You can't compete with me when I have 24-7, 50 people working for me behind the scenes doing all the work.

And it's like that mindset is like kind of like blow your mind, right? And I think people get a little comfortable in that. Karen Jacobs: Yeah. Yes.

Okay. Megan Driscoll: their businesses have been doing well. And so of course their business will continue to do well. And this is such a disruptor that I think that's just a really dangerous place to be in the way that you're thinking.

And so I want to get that message out, know, as to as many people as I possibly can about really retooling the way we think about business entirely, like forgetting almost everything we've learned. all, even if we've had 15 years of great business, it's like, put that aside for a minute and think about how could your business survive in an environment where your competitors have 50 employees overnight doing all of the work for them for free? Could you compete? If the answer is no, what are you gonna do to change your business so that you can compete?

Karen Jacobs: Well, I think you can't start early enough thinking about this. And that's why when you were sharing at the beginning, you have a junior high school child and a high school child and I teach in higher education. Those are the messages that we need to begin to say. You're going into an AI world.

What skills could you develop to be competitive? ⁓ And I think that's really important. Megan Driscoll: Right. Karen Jacobs: ⁓ can frighten people.

Some people are deer in headlights thinking, ⁓ my gosh, I don't know where to begin. And so I think joining some kind of community, getting a consultant, ⁓ and not standing back and just waiting for it to go away, because it's not gonna go away. Megan Driscoll: No, it's not going to go away. It's going to accelerate.

So let's talk a little bit about, you know, I love the parenting angle, right? So with regard to like giving your child opportunities to have these conversations. I have been also amazed, and I wonder about this from your perspective as a professor, there are AI programs that you can run on your computer that will tell you exactly where keystrokes were added to the paper that someone has put in place and can actually then tell you exactly where that information came from on AI.

And I'm sure you're not running that, but it is possible to have and professors could have that. What is the... What is the approach as well as a parent in your opinion, like how do you handle that when your child has kind of forged it, right? Or what's the professorship kind of approach to that?

Like how are we handling that when that happens? When you know you said you can't use AI and that person has. Because I think students are unaware of how obvious it is to pick up. Again, kids always think that we were born yesterday and we fell off the apple cart and we didn't.

⁓ So what's the professorship approach to that and handling it? ⁓ And then what maybe as parents could we adjust to those kinds of things? Karen Jacobs: Sure, well there's no tool out there, really. that's reliable, ⁓ that we could put a paper in and it's going to, you know, it's not like a turn it in where we could look at plagiarism.

It's very challenging to say that there is a tool out there that 100 % will tell us that ⁓ AI was used. You know, we can get a little sense of it through some of the tools that are there. I think developing honesty, ⁓ you know, I think encouraging your child to not feel defensive, to know that it's something they need to develop ⁓ expertise in, but that there's guardrails in using it. Like you could use it to maybe come up with brainstorming an idea for a topic.

And then you need to go onto the online library or actually go into a library to find... Megan Driscoll: Are people going into libraries? Good. Good.

Karen Jacobs: They are, and they're studying in libraries. We have a fabulous library at Boston University, but we have a great online library. And that exists. And so that verification of data is really important.

⁓ Again, I think it's a trust that parents need to ⁓ have with their child. always say, you want to trust your child. You want them to be honest. You don't want them to be defensive.

And so I think sitting down and talking about it is good. The other thing is, parents on a junior high level and high school level have parent teacher meetings. And so speaking to the teacher, ⁓ finding out their ⁓ statement about AI, what they're sharing, ⁓ what their expectations are for the use of AI for an individual assignment or within the class. and finding out what they're doing if they feel suspicious that someone has used AI.

I think it's very serious to ⁓ say to somebody, you used AI and you shouldn't have used AI. You know, don't be on the defensive with a child. Don't have them in that place. Talk to them and say, you know, this is interesting.

You know, it's the right seems a little bit different than I've seen your work previously. Can you tell me how you got here? And be on that positive way of approaching it. Megan Driscoll: Well, that's also my concern too, just about ⁓ the sort critical thinking skill.

⁓ You know, one of the things I loved about college, for me at least, was ⁓ I feel like I really honed my skill on like critical thinking. I'm kind of like a quick hit kind of person, like, get me high level and I don't really want to, you know, get into the details. But in college with, you know, writing 20, 25 page papers, having to sit in the library and pull all this research, you really are like critically, you're learning how to critically think. Karen Jacobs: Okay.

Megan Driscoll: I vacillate between, that's an important skill. are our children losing that skill and how do we get them to gain that skill in the environment? And then me saying, well, maybe they never need to critically think again because they can just go to AI and get the answer. And it's kind of like I vacillate between these two things.

like, how much critical thinking am I doing now today, right, as opposed to what I was doing 15 years ago or even five years ago? So what's your thought about critical thinking? Like, do you feel like these students that are graduating are kind of like numbed to this? Like, are they just kind of like?

robotic or are you still seeing like their brains working? Like that's... Karen Jacobs: No, critical thinking is very important and I don't want that to ever go away. I started out this conversation by saying I think AI can be a thought partner and in educational context, I think that's important.

But the bottom line is critical thinking is absolutely something that we're reinforcing on a university level. I would like to say that your junior high school student ⁓ is having that reinforcement by their teachers, ⁓ it's really important. Again, AI can be there to augment what we're doing, ⁓ but I don't want to see it replacing critical thinking. Megan Driscoll: Right?

And you don't think that it is, like so far. Karen Jacobs: ⁓ I don't think it is, and I may be naive in some ways. For some people, probably it is. But I think if we use AI ⁓ in an ethical and responsible way as a prompt to help us get an idea, say, we're stuck on a title for a paper, and you prompt it and say, I want this title to whatever it is.

⁓ You're thinking. ⁓ with the prompts. And so I'd like to say that ⁓ we can still encourage and teach critical thinking in an AI world. Megan Driscoll: Yeah.

Well, it's going to be interesting. actually, I think, hiring my daughter for an internship this summer. ⁓ Because I think that her working for me in AI would be more beneficial than she has some other internship opportunities she's considering, and she's got a couple that she's got to decide on. But I actually think that those won't give her the types of skills that I could give her this summer that will be really important for her to have when she graduates next year.

⁓ So I'm interested to see how she thinks because she would be a very just a typical student going to liberal arts college, right? Like, is she able to really critically think? And I kind of know her really well, so I can kind of see like what's development has happened. So, you know, know she's matured in a lot of ways, but like, has she developed critical thinking skills in a way that she can then apply to a job?

I'll be interested to see. mean, I know it's just a subjective one off really can't make any judgment call. Yeah. Karen Jacobs: Well, I'd love to meet her.

I'd love to meet her. And maybe I can meet her ahead of time and we could do a little case study on your daughter. Wouldn't that be great? Okay.

Megan Driscoll: I would love that. I would love a case study. ⁓ And I think, you know, because it does concern me that we are graduating a bunch of kids, even I would say probably the seniors this year, not as much, but the kids who are like freshmen or who are entering next year, who've kind of done their whole high school career with AI as an option for them. Like I'm really concerned about them kind of just walking through life like.

You know, constantly like asking Claude for advice on how to handle things. I'm also, and we don't have time to really talk about this, but we have to wrap up. But I'm also a little bit concerned. There's been several people that I've talked to, and I actually think I'm going to speak to a psychologist, and we're going to do a segment on this, with the connection to like a Claude and like the kind of like can't.

Karen Jacobs: Yeah, I know where you're going. Megan Driscoll: move forward with doing things without it, becoming like a crutch for people and a little bit obsessed with it. Are you seeing that at all in students in your programs? Karen Jacobs: You know, I'm not saying that disclosing anything like that.

So I ⁓ have really strong guardrails on how they can use AI. And I just had a case where ⁓ doctoral level trained ⁓ occupational therapy students, I gave them an assignment of doing a business plan. And then I said, you know, you can use AI or you don't use AI. And I asked them ⁓ questions about, did you use AI on each of the sections of it?

And one group said, no, we decided to not use AI and to use, and quote, our own intelligence. And so I think we're seeing that ⁓ students themselves are stepping back and saying, do I always need to have ⁓ any of these GPTs ⁓ there at all times? And some are setting their own. guidelines of no, I don't and I like Megan Driscoll: Yeah, maybe our brains are fighting back, you know, and just saying we actually do have autonomy.

We do have a thought in our head about what we want. That would be lovely. Karen Jacobs: you enough for fighting back, we do have that. So I want to say, stay positive.

Megan Driscoll: We do have that. Let's hope that those, exactly, let's hope those brain cells win. ⁓ Well, this has been a really awesome conversation. I'm super excited to have you here.

I'm super grateful you were able to do this with us. And I know that parents around the country will be happy to hear ⁓ some strategies on how to manage their children through this very tumultuous and a time of upheaval, that's for sure. Karen Jacobs: And I'm happy, you know, if a parent wants to reach out to me, I'll give you my email. Sure.

I'm at Boston University and my email is K J A C O B S at BU dot edu. And I want to thank you for having me on your podcast. This was a really fun conversation. Megan Driscoll: Yeah, so I was going to say, could you tell us where people can find you?

Yeah, it sure was. Thanks again so much, Karen. I appreciate it.