Y&S Perspectives Eps.19 - Japan - Indonesia Business Culture

Mutiya: Foreign.

Ravi Virgarampat: Hi, welcome back to YS Prospectives podcast where you can tune into today's strategies for tomorrow's success with me, Ravi Virgarampat as your host for today's session. Alright. When people in Indonesia think about Japan, they often associate with discipline, precision, strong surface and very distinctive work culture. But beyond those general impressions, there are also personal experiences and deeper nuances that shape how we understand Japan. So today we're not talking about Japanese culture, but also about how cultural understanding can shape stronger business collaboration between Japan and Indonesia. And here I'm um, not alone. I'm um, with two beautiful women from both two countries. Please introduce yourself girls. All right.

Eka Iwasaki: Hi. Uh, hello. My name is Eka Iwasaki from Japan. Uh, I'm here for about 10 years and working as um, marketing managers in Japan. Desk consulting, Spire.

Ravi Virgarampat: Nice to see you Sayagasa. And also from the Indonesian side.

Mutiya: Hello everyone. My name is Mutiya and I'm here from the Indonesian office as m and a consultant and I've been here uh, maybe one and a half years. So. Hi everybody.

Eka Iwasaki: Yay.

Ravi Virgarampat: Arigato and trimakasi. Okay, before we get into uh, the business side, I'd like to start the conversation. Um, from Kamutia, um, we know that you just came from Japan, uh, right. To visit Japan office and m doing a uh, business meeting in there. Um, from your perspective, Kamutia, what was the strongest impression that stayed with you when working closely with Japan and working uh, in a Japanese company?

Mutiya: Okay, so uh, maybe for uh. Let me do the storytelling first. We just finished the kickoff meeting uh, from Japan maybe two weeks ago. So the first uh, and most impression from my Japanese colleague there, it's they are really disciplined and also uh, the time management is really accurate. So let's say if they say that, okay, please uh, meet in this point of in or in this location around 1 o'.

Eka Iwasaki: Clock.

Mutiya: Before 1 o'.

Ravi Virgarampat: Clock.

Mutiya: Everybody is already gathering around. So uh, that's really impressive for me as Indonesian citizens.

Eka Iwasaki: Thank you.

Ravi Virgarampat: Wow. What a very positive impression. Um, from your side, uh, as you have said you. Are you already working in here? About 10 years and more. Yeah. Right. Um, what was your impression of the working style and communication culture in here?

Eka Iwasaki: My first impression about that is like uh, uh, people are overall friendly to me, uh, from the very first time. And also all are active at office and also noisy. Yeah, uh, in Japan we usually uh, uh, take importance on to focus on working and be silent, not to bother others. But here, um, people are more active, actively talking and maybe Sometimes singing. But anyways, they are working. Also I noticed that they are working very, very long time. Uh, after a long, long way to come to office.

Ravi Virgarampat: Oh, what a uh, unique impression I might say because I think talking about me because when I'm working I like to sing as well. Um, yeah, yeah, that's very interesting. And uh, differences may seem subtle on the surface, like how people communicate and um, as uh, Kam said, like their uh, their culture. Like um, to attend everything stick uh, with the time. Right. And um. Yeah. But in reality all of that can deeply affect trust, teamworks and also uh, the expectation between one and another.

Eka Iwasaki: Right.

Ravi Virgarampat: Can for. From uh. My. Another question. And um, this is uh, to Sayaka, in Japan there's a strong culture of timely and accurate reporting often link to the concept of hor. If I might say. Is this, is this correct? All right. In Indonesia the style uh, might be different. And how do you personally see that difference?

Eka Iwasaki: Uh, yeah, as you mentioned, Ho Reno, uh, which is actually literally in Indonesian, uh, it means like um, you need to report ah, timely and accurate and also uh, what is uh. Yeah, quickly. Yeah. Um, but here um, what is important is not like that most important thing I feel is like uh, to deliver the best uh report to the destination. So uh, people wait to see the best timing. So sometimes not timely but sometimes uh. Good.

Ravi Virgarampat: I see. And um, what do you think about that? Kamotia, do you agree?

Mutiya: Yeah, I think in Indonesia most of the time that we're also focusing on how um, to make the presentation is more presentable to the client with a lot of maybe colors and pictures. So um, when I compare to the Japanese report, mostly it's already uh, delta and compact. So maybe that's the difference between the two um, presentable proposals from each of the countries.

Ravi Virgarampat: All right. By the point of view from Saigasan and Kathmutia, these differences do not necessarily mean uh, one way is better than another. Right. And in many cases each side uh, brings different strength. Japan may be stronger in precision, structure and consistency, while Indonesia often stands out in adaptability, relationship building and also flexibility. And when those trends come together, that is where collaboration becomes truly interesting. Uh, to both of you, uh, what do you think Indonesia can learn from Japan? And I'd like to start with Kangutia.

Mutiya: Okay, so from my experience previously, as I already said before, the time accuracy, it's really um, number one because in Indonesia mostly uh, maybe because of the traffic jam and everything. So uh, yeah, maybe 10 or 15 minute lates in Indonesia it's okay. But uh, at Japan maybe, uh, most of the clients or us, we arrive um, early before the confirmation date. So, um, I really hoping that maybe in the future Indonesia can learn on that side. And the second one is, uh, we are uh, from the Japanese side. They're really respectful to each other and the discipline, um, that show. From their insight, we can see that uh, they really respect us even though we're coming from a different culture and also a different country. So yeah, I, uh, think we can learn a lot from the Japanese citizen.

Ravi Virgarampat: And um, uh, to say that. What's your thought on that?

Eka Iwasaki: Oh yeah, to opinion, maybe. I think I can add. Japanese, uh, thinks it's important to give some kind of certainty. So when you come and when you uh, submit report and what is uh, a contest maybe can be expectable. Um, uh, being expectable is quite important for us, I think. All right, so what we can learn from Indonesia is also we can. We can. We have some things that we can learn from Indonesia as well. Um, one thing is that the Indonesian way is much easier than Japanese way. Uh, I feel, uh, uh, in my experience, so we can find some good way in between to work comfortably and more like, assured. Better, uh, maybe. And also I think Indonesians are more. Better at uh, better at uh, working with different people. So they are more uh, pregnant with other type of people regardless where they are from, uh, what other background or how they work or whatever. So I think these two, uh, we can learn, uh, from Indonesia.

Ravi Virgarampat: Oh, thank you so much. And Kamotia, uh, have you ever had like a feedback from a Japanese partner when working closely with us? Maybe? What's their thought on that?

Mutiya: I think, um, as me as an M and a consultant, there's like a different pace when we're gathering the information. As for Indonesian, um, Muzil, a financial advisor from Indonesia, they're trying to approach, uh, the client in more a friendly way manner. So, um, maybe for the gathering information, first we catch up over coffee and then after regaining the trust later on we get the information. So maybe it takes more time than um, Japanese pace. So, uh, usually Japanese pace is like, um, more um, accurate. Like first week what we get, second week what we get. But in Indonesia, um, maybe for the um, timeline, usually it takes more times.

Ravi Virgarampat: Oh yeah. And um, that is exactly why culture is not just a background topic. Right. It shapes how people communicate, how they build trust, and also how the decision are made and ultimately how business partnership are formed. So when we talk about Japan and Indonesia, cultural understanding is not separate from business collaboration like it is part of its foundation. And also if we uh, zoom out from the interpersonal level to the bigger picture, the relationship between Japan and Indonesia has been strong for many years. Not only culturally but also economically but in changing global environment. The more uh, interesting question today is how do Japanese company actually see Indonesia right now? Like um, what makes Indonesia an attractive market today in the eyes of Japanese company? And I think Segasa uh, is uh, the better person to answer this question.

Eka Iwasaki: Uh, yeah, simply uh, what makes Indonesian market attractive to Japanese is like uh. It's close and big market. Uh we are Japanese uh, has less percent less populations so we are kind of forced to go out. So uh, accessing to um, some. Some good big market is a must think. And um, Indonesia is very close so we can easily access. And time gap is only two hours between Japan and Jakarta so it's very easy to start with. And also Indonesia has large populations so there are very potential big market here. So. And also economy is growing so there will be a lot of chances here for Japanese. So these things are uh. Makes Indonesia attractive to Japanese. Yeah.

Ravi Virgarampat: I see. And from the Indonesian side, uh, why do you think a uh, Japanese company loves to uh, do business Indonesia? As we know that Indonesia there are a lot of existing Japanese companies. Right. Um, from your uh, opinion why uh they often invest in Indonesia market.

Mutiya: So uh, from my perspective, most of it same as Sayaka San already said before. So they see Indonesia as a growing market and a large population. And currently Indonesia have a lot of active gap. Maybe uh active age gap between 20 until 35. So it might say that um Japanese company also looking the Indonesian worker to work at their company and also um, the consumer uh of the product like the FMCG and everything. Um usually um, the most active user is from 20 under 35. Right. So uh, we also consume a lot of products. So yeah, maybe that is um one of the things that companies um investor see Indonesia uh as a country. It's attractive.

Ravi Virgarampat: I see. And uh, Kamothiya, how do you see uh the relationship between Indonesia and Japan? Do you see that? It's just like uh, they invest to us to produce ourselves only or. But also to build more meaningful local partnership.

Mutiya: Yeah. So as from my perspective, yes of course Japanese company also um. The first uh things that I always um knew that most m of them um said to us that they need synergy between what we want to achieve and what they want to achieve also. So if there is no synergy between Indonesian office and also the Japanese office, they will not um, think further or they will not invest in the company. So maybe um, from the Indonesian perspective also most of the um collaboration and also the partnership between Japanese and also Indonesia. The Japanese companies see Indonesia as one of the company that can synergy um from their objective.

Eka Iwasaki: All right.

Ravi Virgarampat: I couldn't agree more because I think um it is like uh the reason why uh the relationship between Japan and Indonesia stay longer. Right. And to make the um collaboration sustained more throughout many years. And if Indonesia is increasingly seen as like a strategy, uh partner uh to the eyes of the Japanese, the next question is where the strongest opportunities actually lies. And um, to Sayaka San, which sectors do you think are currently the most promising for Japanese companies in Indonesia?

Eka Iwasaki: It's very difficult question. Many companies sees like uh consumer market as a whole and um has a potential also um, something related to that like um uh logistics or ICTs. Um so yeah, food and memories of course. And also maybe uh, like agricultural uh fisheries might have potential but uh. Still not so many uh cases.

Ravi Virgarampat: Wow, that's a great information. And also has said about the ICT and uh, as my experience I've been facing like a lot of ICT clients from Japan as we know that uh, that Japan uh is one of the strongest country when we talk about cyber security also. Right. So I think uh. That sector in Indonesia is like one of the most promising. And yeah, uh, alongside with that uh, to come uh Muthia. From your perspective uh, what types of collaboration are most likely to succeed in the long term between Japanese and Indonesian companies?

Mutiya: Most of the strategy that they are looking for is like a joint venture maybe because in Indonesia there's a lot of uh rules from the government that need to be adjusted. So if they're um looking for this joint venture or maybe strategic partner, as you already said before, um, they already have uh Indonesian employee in here. So maybe from the go to market strategy it's uh more easy for them to enter Indonesian market.

Ravi Virgarampat: All right. When we talk about strong opportunity there are also real challenges. And very often the challenge is not only regulation but also how both sides align on working style, expectations and pace. To Sayaka uh and Kamutia, which differences uh tends to be the most difficult in practice. Whether it is communication style, decision making process, expectation or sense of type. Maybe from Sayaka San first

Eka Iwasaki: uh, what uh, I often feel is that uh the trend comes from uh different communication style from the both side when we often search for partners. Right. And uh, we assist communication between Japanese party and Indonesian parties. And um. Japanese parties ah usually expect uh, fast response. Um, but Indonesians not always fast, they have some different uh, style. So in between we uh, have some difficulty in uh, meeting both expectations. That is one thing we face to do.

Mutiya: Okay, so maybe uh, I have other perspectives that maybe can have a better understanding to our audience. So uh, in M M and A, uh, most of the buyer from Japan usually looking from Indonesian office, that Indonesian company they already sustained in terms of revenue and EBITDA in the last three years. But currently uh, right now um, it's kind of hard looking uh, for Indonesian office that match with the inquiry from Japanese buyer. Uh, so maybe uh, it's a challenging for us to meet the expectation from Japanese buyer. And this I see.

Ravi Virgarampat: So what we have discussed so far is not just about communicating style. Right. But also how trust and expectations are built in cross border partnerships. And at the same time strong opportunity often comes with equal uh, important challenges. So while the potential is clear, there are also several gaps that need to be understood if the partnership is to go beyond initial interest. And I think that brings us to the most important takeaway from today's discussion. So in the end, uh, the real value lies is not only on the opportunity itself but in the ability to understand and work through differences together. And as the last question that I would like to ask to Katmutia and Sayaka San, um, how uh, do you feel right now working closely with Japan and working closely with Indonesia? If you can tell to our audience maybe from Camotea.

Mutiya: Yeah, so it's a really great experience for me working closely with Japanese border, Japanese, um, colleague and also the other um, country as well. So uh, it gives me a lot more understanding for uh, another culture from the other country. And as we already talked and also discussed previously, we can always have the positive, positive culture that we can take in Indonesia.

Ravi Virgarampat: Okay. And um, translator San.

Eka Iwasaki: Yeah, uh, me as well enjoying uh, in staying in different countries in Indonesia from Japan. Um, but overall after 10 years or so I feel uh, people are just people, not Indonesian or Japanese or not labeled people. So uh, just colleagues so we can communicate and we understand and we chat and um, yeah, we like, we hate or whatever. So it's quite interesting. I don't, I don't know what to say that it's quite normal thing and no, no like nothing like Indonesian or Japan or different countries. So yeah, I, I think like uh, if we work together for a long time, maybe things are like that.

Ravi Virgarampat: Uh, I see. And I think we all believe that there is, if there is one key message from today's discussion, it is culture is not barrier, uh, to collaboration, but it is the part of the foundation. And when Japan and Indonesia are both willing to understand each other's ways of working expectation and also values, the result is not just a business transaction, but also a long term and strategic partnership. Thank you so much, Kamutia and Sayakasan, Trimobasi and Arigatougozaimasu, for sharing not only your professional insight, but also your personal, uh, reflections towards each other. And I think today's conversation shows that understanding culture is not simply a nice addition. It is essential if we want to build stronger and more lasting collaboration between Japan and Indonesia.

Mutiya: Sayonara.