The Webinar Framework That Turns Trust Into Sales Calls With Jon Schumacher

Speaker A: What I, uh, got, you can't buy it.

Speaker B: Real sides between my eyes. Walk through the fire Came out better on the other side. You are listening to Inspired Insider with your host, Dr. Jeremy Wise.

Speaker A: Dr. Jeremy Weiss here, founder of inspired insider.com where I talk with inspirational entrepreneurs and leaders. Today is no different. I have John Schumacher. You can check him out@john schumarker.com and he is an expert at webinars. And John, before I formally introduce you, I always like to point out other episodes of the podcast people should check out. John works with a lot of different professionals, especially ones with a high client lifetime value, specifically people in M and A. It could be financial advisors. So I was trying to think, John, who are some of the interesting people kind of in the M and A world I've had on the podcast? Um, Todd Tasky was a great one. He helps pair agencies with private equity, right. And he's got the Second Bite podcast. And so, you know, by doing that, sometimes people sell, you know, their biz or make more on the second bite than they do on the first. When they sell the private equity, they roll some equity in and they get more on the second bite when private equity sells. Super interesting. Again, talking about valuations in the market and, you know, a lot of those type of things. Another one was, um, Adam Coffee. Uh, Adam Coffee has a book, um, and it's called the Private Equity Playbook. And I think he's got like the number one and number two best selling books within that category or keywords or whatever it is, I don't know. Um, so that was super interesting. He's been doing it for many years and he kind of cut his teeth, John, on doing it himself before. Obviously he coaches, consults, you know, and wrote a book on it. Same thing with Seth Deutsch as well. Um, is helping a lot of different types of businesses, but law firms actually kind of roll up and sell the private equity. So those are fascinating, really, for me, a lot of learnings there in business. Um, and this episode is brought to you by rise 25.

Speaker B: Rise.

Speaker A: Ah, 25. We help businesses connect to their dream relationships and partnerships. We do that in a few ways. One, we're an easy button for a company to launch and run a podcast. Uh, we do the strategy, accountability and the full execution. Production number two, or an easy button for a company's gifting. So, you know, staying top of mind. It could be clients, partners, prospects, it could be even staff from a culture perspective. You just send us a list, we'll do everything else. And John, it's not like we send like a mug with someone's logo on it. We actually I like send getting food. So we send food. Uh, so think sending something three to four, uh, every something, uh, every three to four months for four to five years. Um, and that's just a touch point for me to say I appreciate you, I'm thinking about you. So you know, for me the number one thing in my life is relationships and I always look on ways I can give to those relationships and I found no better way to profile them on my podcast and send them sweet treats in the mail. So check out rise25.com email support rise25.com I've known John for a long time. He's uh, really ah, a really smart entrepreneur webinar strategist. He builds premium webinar sales systems for coaches, consultants, financial advisors, B2B companies. And you know, he's advised everyone from shark tank startups to billion dollar corporations, helped over you know, two, 800 professionals, train them millions of dollars in client sales generated and really specializes in helping experts turn their knowledge into a highly profitable webinar presentation that gets them more conversations, conversions. So John, thanks for Jo joining me.

Speaker B: Jeremy, appreciate you. You're always really good at your relationships. You're always sending me these nice texts and everything like that. So you're, you're a real pro when it comes to doing uh, eating your own dog food as you say. Right. So I appreciate you having me and appreciate you uh, having me on your show.

Speaker A: I love it. And we're going to dig in and we were talking before here, Cory, like we're going to get into the nitty gritty because really what I think any business want, they want to get in front of people, they want to have a conversation, uh, one to many conversation that leads to more incoming calls, that leads to more conversions for their business essentially. And so I know you've really constructed and perfected this framework over more than a decade at this point. And so I wanted to start there, um, use this call booking webinar framework. So why don't you tell people about the call booking webinar and what that means?

Speaker B: Yeah. So call booking webinar is in essence a presentation, a strategically put together presentation designed not to have you pitch something at the end but to uh, pre sell pre suede, build trust and then allow people from your network, could be from your email list, your LinkedIn network, your referral partners, whatever, send them, give them something to send traffic to. Right. Or to gather up a group of potential uh, buyers for your services. Build trust, um, say the right things in the right order and then direct them to book a call with you at the end to get them on your calendar to talk about working uh, together. So this could be again for financial advisors, consulting companies, people who have high client lifetime values and those relationships matter in the trust building matters. And they can do that not just on a referral roller coaster sort of uh, avenue, but actually, you know, have a systematic way of being proactive in generating leads in a one to many fashion. So that's sort of what I mean when I say a call booking webinar system. You know, you got the emails to promote it, you got the presentation to build that connection and trust, you got your call to action in order to you know, get people on the calendar and then there's a follow up process with that as well. So happy to take this where you want. I can go through specifically the presentation. I know a lot of people are curious about that.

Speaker A: You know, it's like what I want to talk about is there's a lot of pieces in this and even within those pieces like we talk about even before they get on. So I want to talk about mistakes people make like even be you have to get them on the webinar. Then once you get them on the webinar, uh, you have to have all the elements of a webinar and then once you have that you have all these post elements, you know, those post element things as well. So I wanted to kind of start with the pre stuff because we could jump right into the webinar itself. But like I know people make lots of mistakes just getting people on. I know you had one person, you know, that we are talking about with the registration volume itself. So I don't know if you want to start there, but I want to start before we even get, get them on the webinar.

Speaker B: Yeah. So would it be helpful to show your audience kind of some high level ways of doing that and then I can show you uh, a trick if you will. It's not really a trick but it's a, a pillar strategy for increasing the number of people who hit your registration page and actually register. Would that be, be helpful? Cool. So as far as. And then I'll, I assume it's okay if I screen share as well here?

Speaker A: Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker B: During the call. So I'll do that in a second. But as far as like the big picture of getting people to your presentation, most of the people I work with, we either use their Email audience. So I have a five part email sequence that we start promoting to five emails starting about a week ahead of the, of the webinar. You don't want to promote it too early or you tend to hurt your attendance in most industries, seven to ten days, uh, uh, as a promotional window to your list or, and also this applies to your LinkedIn network. Uh, maybe you start promoting your webinar via LinkedIn events or, or those kind of things. But yeah, seven to ten day window. Usually I send five emails. Some people like, whoa, that's more emails than I send. Yeah, but it works very effectively to let people know about it because not everybody opens every email. So email LinkedIn is a really good source for a lot of clients. A lot of them have built a network on there. They're just not ever giving them a reason to come and experience them. Right. To build that trust in a virtual environment like that. So uh, those are the main things. I'm also a big fan of partnerships and collaborations. I know you are as well. That's sort of your jam. But, and I've done this for over a decade, basically I collaborate with other people. Many people are just a single degree or even a direct connection away from having someone who might promote their presentation for them and they can either, you know, give them a cut of any commissions that are generated or just do some kind of promotional swap. Um, you know, you promote them, they promote you or they just like you. Some people in your network. Oh my gosh. Right. They just like you and want to support you and they're willing to share your webinar, you know, with their database. Right. With their audience. So those are my favorite ways to get people to attend, uh, and register for a webinar. You can run ads, you can do those kind of things. If you have a budget you can certainly test that. But that can be uh, can add up fairly quickly. Those people don't quite know you as well. So for most of my clients I'm looking for them to have an email list or a LinkedIn network or some built in level of distribution that they maybe are under monetizing. Bring in the partnership strategy as well. That tends to be my bread and butter for getting registrations. Okay. Um, and it doesn't have to be anything complicated. You could set up something like Zoom, like we're on right now, like Zoom meeting, you know, can you can host a webinar on that? That's more than fine. I'm going to quickly uh, share my screen here. Let me pull this up. And let's make sure I can share my screen. All right. Can you see this? Okay, Jeremy, registration.

Speaker A: Yep. I'm with you.

Speaker B: Cool.

Speaker A: This is great. Yeah, let's break it down.

Speaker B: So this is, um, a partner of mine I collaborate with. His name's Paul. He runs a book publishing company, and he was doing webinars, getting decent results, um, again, to his list, to his partners, to his LinkedIn network. You know, those were sort of his organic channels. But what I was seeing in his numbers was that his registration numbers were kind of low considering the number, the amount of promotion that he was doing. He was just sending people basically from those things to a zoom page. And his, his whole hook was just book marketing secrets. Now, I would probably tweak his hook here a little bit more if I, if he, if I was advising him again on this page. But he went from basically just using a standard, here come book my webinar on a zoom page to this. And the real thing that he did, if you have a book or a PDF, is to incentivize the registration. So not only do people register for your webinar to come to a webinar, but you can give them a tangible asset. Could be a news report or an ebook or a book that you've published. And then once people register, you give that to them on the confirmation page. I can tell you, Jeremy, it seems simple, but not enough people do it. I will never love it.

Speaker A: A registry will never do. Why not?

Speaker B: Yeah, I will never do another, like, intentional webinar again where I don't have some kind of a PDF or a book or an E book or something that I give people as an incentive to sign up. He saw a, and there's still some critiques on this page, but he saw a 50% increase in his registration numbers by talking not only about the webinar, but the book in his email copy, as well as when they, when they hit his landing page. Now, this could still use some optimization, but, um, you know, this is Paul's, um, page here. Again, I've seen this with multiple partners because I do a lot of webinars, both myself or with other people, and I see their numbers. If you incentivize people and many of your listeners probably have a book, they have some authority, some kind of authority content that they could use in conjunction with their web classes in their, in their call. Booking webinars makes, um, a massive difference in trying to get more people to actually register. Plus, it's a little bit of a, of a Trojan horse if you will. Because now even if they don't come and buy right away, they have your book, they have your material, right, that they can look at. And we all, you and I both know that this, you know, high trust, high dollar industry, it's all about trust building. And sometimes people aren't ready to just buy now, right? You want to leave them with a good experience, leave them with some materials so that now that they're in your pipeline, they can come back later. So there's a couple of reasons to do that. But this, just as a tangible example, um, is working is a, is a, I guess you call it a pro tip. And, and some people know this. Most people don't do it. I'll tell you that for certain, if you want, one of the best ways to bump your registration numbers is to do what I just said there. So.

Speaker A: And by the way, I just want to piggyback on that for a second, um, John, because you know, people buy sometimes just strictly for a bonus, right? People, obviously we're talking about a free signing up, but like anything that someone could do to incentivize so that, that goes, let's say you're never going to do a webinar in your life, right? But this, what John just talked about, you can use even if you're selling something, right? Like what other incentives, bonuses can really add value to that, right? And specifically like you're still selling a registration even though it's free. Like you have to sell it as if someone's paying for it. And what better than, you know, to include bonuses?

Speaker B: And I've been doing this for over a decade, man. And I'm telling you, like, I've, I've seen this across multiple webinars and it makes sense logically. But the, the difference is fair, is prone, is, is profound. Like literally I've seen it like 30, 50 increases in the number of people that will register for your web class, your training, your um, call booking, webinar just by doing that, that one thing, you know, which means a lot because if you can't get people in the front of the thing, you're not going to get people out the back of the thing, right? So if you're clap. I mean, if you're hosting webinars right now, that's uh, if you're not doing that, you're welcome because, uh, you should be doing that.

Speaker A: So now someone gets on, right? So there's multiple emails in different channels. Could be email, LinkedIn partnerships, if someone wants to do ads now that people are on the webinar, obviously there's multiple emails, follow up emails to get them on and probably reminding them to come on. Now they're on the webinar. Talk about during the, the webinar a little bit.

Speaker B: Yeah, so I like to do a 45 minute presentation. That's roughly what I have people do. People always ask me, should it be an hour, 90 minutes? I, I feel like 45 minutes is the sweet spot for these call booking style webinars. Okay. You don't need an elaborate pitch at the end. You're not even directly selling something. Right. So um, we want to respect people's time. Again, most of my clients, they, they have um, you know, their clients are busy people. Right. So they, they want to get to the point and do all of, and, and do it in a concise way. But you still don't want to hurry through the process either. So uh, for a live presentation, let's say you're doing once a month, maybe on a zoom, doing the things we talked about. You're, you, you're having people from your network, your email list coming to your webinar once a month is usually what I recommend most people do. Um, we get them live. And if it would serve your, your viewers here, Jeremy, I'm happy to walk through kind of like the main elements of that presentation is that, would that be helpful? So the first part of the presentation, I'd say the first 25 minutes of a 45 minute talk, I like to call framing the opportunity. Okay. One of the biggest mistakes people make in these type of webinars is, is one, they'll just either start talking about their bio right away or just like where they went to school and kind of like, you know, they're checking a box if you will, because that's what they've been taught to do on these type of webinars. Or they sort of just kind of obviously just hit pain points after pain points in kind of this, this strange way. I like to start every presentation with what I call the 3Ds. The 3Ds. And people love these sort of frameworks. Right. The 3D stands for desires, difficulties and discovery. Okay, so I don't start with the difficulties. Actually start by talking about the desires of, of the people. Hey, if you're here today, you likely are looking to do X, Y and Z, et cetera, et cetera. You know, talking about like who the, who this is perfect for and what they are ultimately after. Then I pivot back to the difficulties. But you know, if you're here today. Maybe you've tried this, you've tried that, you've tried this with unsuccessful leaving you feeling this way or with this other result. So we kind of ping pong between desires and difficulties and then I go into seeding a discovery. So what I've discovered is a, uh, for example, like for a financial advisor, what I've discovered is a simple five part retirement framework that doesn't just address your investments, but it gives you a holistic view of what a successful retirement looks like. And I'll be talking more about that here on today's presentation. Right, so you were sort of opening that loop. I always like people to position what they're sharing as a bit of a discovery. And that's kind of how I see it, like a new opportunity, a path forward, a new success path. And so anytime I work with a client, consultant, advisor, coach, I'm always like, okay, how can we take their specific method? And all of them, all of you have a specific method. You just need to frame it. Right. And position it on a webinar as a new, as a success path, a new opportunity. I call that a discovery. Okay, so we want to start by framing the situation, you know, talking about their, their, their desires, their difficulties, their discovery. Then, uh, I have people share what I call a short discovery story, which is like a three minute or so, you know, framework of how they discovered what they're sharing. So usually I use a before, during and after framework for that. So what were they doing before they made the discovery? Describe the moment of discovery, like, okay, this is really what's helping people. And then what did you do after? Use it with hundreds of clients with success. Did you write a book on that thing? Like that's where you can kind of see the why should I listen to this person? Sort of part of the webinar. Okay, so like that first part is all about framing the opportunity with the right context. Context is super important. Most people just jump into like hitting people with a bunch of how to stuff on a webinar. And we want everything we do to be valuable. But this is. But if you don't properly set the stage, if you don't talk about, you know, what's at stake and why, they should listen to you in a way that flows well, that feels good. You're not doing yourself any favors when it comes to getting people to book a call with you at the end. So I'll pause there. I have more if you want to go through the rest.

Speaker A: Keep going.

Speaker B: Does that make sense?

Speaker A: This is great. Yeah, totally. I mean, I could see how, you know, I guess you've worked with enough, uh, financial advisors, you could probably do a webinar because that was pretty good off the cuff that, uh, that discovery that you, that you riffed on.

Speaker B: Yeah, you know, we do this for advisors, consultants, you know, all kinds of people. But we want to position what you do and how you do it as a unique mechanism or a discovery piece. And so we talk about the 3Ds, tell the discovery story, and then I like to do what I call introducing this, the path to success, which is basically like what your unique pro, the big idea of your unique process. All good presentations, as you likely know, Jeremy, are built upon like one good big idea that you kind of point to. Right. Um, for the advisor I mentioned, it was his five part holistic retirement plan for an mergers and acquisitions consultant. Uh, it could be um, that you know, you have this framework for uncovering and fixing, um, let's say, um, you know, constraints in, in the business. The concentration risks is a big one for mma. Like people that are getting, helping companies get ready to sell. Most companies have these concentration risks like owner or customer concent risks or things like that that would make a, uh, buyer of your company less likely to pay a higher multiple on ebitda. Right. So like you, you, you have that framework, so you want to introduce that success path. You can think of it as like drawing a line across the screen. There's multiple paths people can walk or have tried before. So you can think of like multiple arrow lines going across the screen. What is your path to success that they haven't tried before? We need to anchor that around that big idea. It right after we have seeded that discovery earlier. And then I like to share what I call contrast content. Jeremy, you've heard about this. It's the old way, new way, the easy way, hard way. You know, what's the traditional way of financial advising and why it doesn't serve you and what it doesn't do for you versus the new better way, which is your path to success. You're creating this dichotomy in people's minds early, having them choose ultimately your path. Right. Um, and that's sort of the 25

Speaker A: made frame like that though I've never heard it framed like contrast content. I like that.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And so I find that works really well, like if we talk about their desires, difficulties. Seed the discovery, tell the discovery story, introduce the success path, which is your method in, in uh, not in an overwhelming way. But just as, as an idea, contrast it with the old way, new way. Because people have tried walking these paths before in many cases, right? Retirement, selling their business, um, help if you're a performance coach. You know, I have a guy I work with who helps people reset their nervous systems. He's like more of a life coach for high performing, uh, men in particular. It's like, you know, his success path is like, you've maybe you've tried talking to therapists, maybe you've tried reading books or going to seminars, but the thing you haven't done is do a set of, of exercises that help you gain control over your nervous system and how your nervous system responds to stress. Right? And so he has this whole program that's success path. So and then we contrast the other ways versus the success path. That's about 25 minutes of a 45 minute talk. And by the end of that, people have full context, right, of uh, who you are, what you offer, what you, why, what you have is different and unique and something that they need, you know, so does that, does that make sense?

Speaker A: Yeah, love it. So what's next?

Speaker B: Next is what I call teaching away objections. Okay. So people are going to get what you just said if you do it well, but they're going to be like, that sounds great, but insert reason, right? It could be, you know, about themselves, about the opportunity, about the market. Is this for me? Right? Like all of these things? Like, this sounds interesting, this sounds amazing, this sounds like something I need, but is this for me in my situation? And all of those kind of things? Right. Um, so I usually like to pick four or five key objections that people would have to believing that they could do what you're proposing, that they could walk that success path that you just laid out for them. Okay. Um, could be about them again, money time. Is this specific to me, all of those things? And so what I do with the client is we map out those objections, you know, and then we do what I call teach them away. And we usually use a framework I call keys to success. So if we show them the success path, now we want to show the keys to success. And so basically we would call out the myth like most people think X, but really Y. Right? So most people think that they need to do this in order to, you know, get their business ready to sell or get their finances in order for a, uh, most people think all they need is their investment planned out to have a successful retirement. But really what they're missing again is this. And, and then I share some Examples and, and case studies and things around that concept. Okay, so we're basically calling out like, here's the key to success. Here's what most people think. Here's what, what really is the case. Here's a few examples or stories around that. Then we go to the next one, the next one, the next one. This one's about, yeah, 10 to 15 minutes. Okay. Um, and so by the end of that, they now have a full picture of the path that you're proposing, um, and why it's unique, why it's better. And we can do this in a way that both informs people, gets them leaning in your direction, but also inspires them and excites them without going into ridiculous details and all that kind of stuff that tends to kill a presentation. And then once we teach away those objections, I re anchor it back to the, um, kind of the success path or the big idea again of the presentation. It all comes down to this thing right here. And then we offer a call to action to book a call. Now most people will just say, hey, if you like what you hear, book a call. We'll discuss your retirement planning or your business or your family life or whatever you're proposing. And that's, that's okay. I mean, the industry average for high ticket offers, you know, attendee to call booking, 5 to 8%, maybe 10% sort of standard I've been seeing 14 to 35% for, for clients recently. Not only using the framework that I just laid out here, but also a specific way of positioning the call. Okay, so, you know, for example, if you're an mergers and acquisitions consultant, let's say, instead of just saying, you know, book a strategy session, we'll talk about your business. Um, you could say, you know, if you like what you hear, you know, we're not done today. Your next step would be to take us up on a, an action plan that we've put together for you. And the first part of that action plan is to book a complimentary, let's call it exit readiness strategy session or something like that, you know, with me directly. Um, and then we describe what that call is, and then we, we add one or two what I call, um, value adds. You could call them bonuses if you want, but value ads that go around that call. So, you know, let's say it's the exit readiness strategy call. During that call, we're going to look at your situation, help you uncover your blocks, etc. Etc. And show you how we can help you. Now also, when you attend that call, we're going to give you our, our complimentary calculator, our, our business, our sellability calculator or something like that. Right. Like where you can enter, answer a few questions and get an estimate of what your Excel for in its current form. Okay. And now we're also going to give you a copy of our book when you attend too, or something like that. So I'm kind of loosely talking about that. We'd obviously clean that language up a little bit. But basically we, we name the call, we position the call as a logical value add next step. Then we incentivize the call by giving a couple of value adds. Calculator would be great. This is from a real client example calculator, you know, because people are curious, well, what would my business look like right now? What would it sell for? You know, like those kind of things. And then a book or something like that is another great thing to leave for people who are um, booking a call or some kind of uh, information that they can read so that you may have that in their back pocket even if they don't become a client right away. Um, that works really well. I've tried talking more about my offer and service directly on the webinar and or less I find that this call to action is getting the highest take rate and you can still pre qualify people a little bit on the webinar or even after they book a call you could have them fill in a questionnaire, you know, and make sure they're a fit as well. So um, I'll stop talking about that. But that's overall the, the framework for this type of presentation that we're building right now.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean that part, um, John, about it's, it's very specific, right? It's not like, hey, book a call, it's like, like first of all it's framed around a benefit, right? The exit readiness strategy, whatever the benefit is. And then also you know, again going back to what value adds and bonuses and it could be what's the next step they're thinking or in the process, in this case in the M and A thing is like they may be thinking what their company is worth, like what's the next step in the process they would need. So you know, it could be whatever industry, what's that next step look like and what's the bonuses or something to support that next step? I guess.

Speaker B: Yeah, bonuses add on. Some people are allergic to the word bonus because they're, they're burned on Internet marketing. Right? But I saw, I use the word Value ads and stuff. But you can make those strategic as well. And, and that really increases the take rate on the call. And if you're getting too many tire kickers from that, you can always tighten the filter a little bit. Right. Like you can always tighten it but the goal should be I always like to generate the demand first. Right. And then you can tighten up the filter. You know, you know what I mean?

Speaker A: Too many tire kicks. You don't want to be like I'm only looking for people who make over x dollar dollars like open to everyone. And you can kind of filter it from there.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean in a way, yeah. I would keep it more open than too tight, at least for the first go around. And then you can always tighten that up. Right? Yeah.

Speaker A: So now post call post or post webinar.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: What are your recommendations?

Speaker B: Yeah, so I, I'm finding Jeremy that um, a three day replay sequence works really well for like higher ticket. Um, if you're, you know again the type of people we're talking about today here, uh, people that, you know, let's say 30 to 40% of the people come live to your presentation depends a little bit on your trust or traffic Source. That means 50, 60% of the people may not even attend. Right. The webinar. And some of your busiest prospects will sign up for a webinar, but they won't always attend either. Right. Some of them will, but not all of them will. Right. So we want an easy way for them to consume your message. Right. And so um, I've tried a lot of different things here with urgencies and whatever I find to respect the intelligence of these high ticket folks, these higher level folks which a lot of people listening to this, if you're an advisor or your consultant, you're not looking for the 19 year old kid who's starting a business. Right. You're looking for you know, people that have some have more money than time. Right. So we want to be smart, make it easy, low friction for them. And so I find three days is an adequate window and we have the replay as well as a call to action button just to book the call, um, give them. You know I usually send out I would say five or six emails in that window. So it's you know, not a uh, massive amount but it's, it's, it's assertive enough. Right. To for just to those people who've registered, encouraging them to watch the replay around a deadline. So ah, a deadline is important in the follow up but I find that just leveraging the Replay does. Does. Well, I mean for me, John, I

Speaker A: mean as a consumer of this stuff, I will register for stuff. I will not attend it because I like to listen to it in two or three times speed. I'm interested in checking it, but I want to watch the replay on my own time and my own speed. Right. So I personally prefer that. That.

Speaker B: Yeah. And some people say, well, don't offer replays. Well, I think that works well in like Internet marketing in some ways. But I've never been a fan of it for this type of presentation because to your point, you're a smart guy, you're a successful guy. If you're interested in something, you will block time to watch it at whatever speed you want, like you said. And if it's interesting enough to you, you may book a call or you may take that step. Right. Like you don't need a bunch of rigamarole, right. To make your decision. You're a smart guy. And so it respects their intelligence a bit there too. So I find that that style of follow up, I've used it with like real estate, you know, wealth management, you know, those things are effective at uh, pushing people to watch it. You know, we got to give them some kind of incentive to watch it. But, but also ultimately just leveraging the replay versus like price increases or other things that I haven't found those to be as effective.

Speaker A: Do you typically, you know, thanks for sharing that. Do you typically advise people on once they're on the call? So now the person books a call and they, whoever it is is actually on the call with the individual?

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: Do you have any recommendations or mistakes that people make on. On. That's that part of the call. And you may talk personal experience because you've done a lot of these personally.

Speaker B: So I, I have and I do a lot of one to one zoom selling for consulting and stuff too. So I do, um, I have a framework for that. I have an AI agent for that. I mean I have all of those things trained and, and put in so I can give that to people. Is that my specialty? I mean I don't advertise that on the front end, but if somebody's telling me that out of ten qualified leads they're only closing one, uh, or two or something, then I'm going to be like, okay, like you know, for the sake of helping them just make more money and generate more clients. I mean, do you have a written process around that? Do you have a questions based framework that guides the conversation? You know, I have a very specific method I call the doctors framework. Actually Jeremy, I know you're in healthcare or you have a healthcare background.

Speaker A: So are you. Yeah.

Speaker B: And so do I. But um, so I, I think of myself as the doctor and they're the patient. Especially if it's an inbound lead that's come through a presentation. They've obviously wanted to speak to me, uh, about my situation or about their situation rather. And um, so I have a questions based frame that I, that I use for all of my calls. Um, I've been using it for years. I've closed five to $50,000 plus deals with it. Do I get every deal? No. Do I want every deal? No. But I want to professional. When you're dealing with people on the higher end, they respect somebody who's professional, who's organized and who can lead the conversation in a non aggressive way. Maintaining buyer safety and all the important things that we want to do but ultimately lead them to, you know, would it be helpful for you to see how I work with my clients, show them that, show them the process, show them the pricing and then let them make a decision. I find for the big high ticket people, especially if they're new to you, I don't try to close them on one call. Um, many times they're just not going to go for that. I mean we're talking like 25, $35,000 plus deals, you know, um, my goal is to just build trust, connection, show them everything. Some people say yes right away and that's like sweet, all right, let's go. Right. But um, but not everybody does. So my goal is to build trust and turn them from a lukewarm lead into a hot lead and then into a sale. That's kind of how I am treating it. No, I love higher end of the

Speaker A: market with the doctor's framework because a doctor, it goes in, they ask you a bunch of questions to see what the problem is first of all. And then second, can they even help you based, based on what you're saying? And that's kind of how I go in. My mentality is with someone is like, my mentality is like can I help them on the call? Right, right. Let's say we never worked yet. And it's something I don't even. It's not really a service I offer. Can I help them and see what their biggest pain points are or directing them to where they need to go based on where, where their pain points are. So I, I do love the doctor's framework for sure. Just coming from like a. They almost Come from like a serving, helping mentality, really.

Speaker B: Yeah, you ask good questions, you diagnose and you prescribe. Right. For the appropriate thing for them. Right. That's. That's sort of what, what doctor, a good doctor will do. Right. Hopefully with good bedside manner. You know, some do, some don't.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: We know the medical field, but uh,

Speaker A: m. Anyway, yeah, so you mentioned AI, an AI agent. Do you want to talk a little bit about AI? Because I know you've dug deep in that over the years and you know, kind of the things that you utilize or that you recommend or not recommend.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I'm happy to go where you want on this. Um, you mentioned my knowledge.

Speaker A: Tell me, talk about that. What do you mean by that?

Speaker B: What's that again?

Speaker A: Uh, A.I. agent. You said you have an A.I. agent, and I think some of your clients can use that I believe too.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I have a variety of AI agents that I've built. Um, so basically I've taken, you know, the frameworks that I've talked about, like my webinar framework or um, the doctor's framework or you know, and I've programmed them into agents that can, you know, ask people a few questions and, and write out those assets, create those assets for people. I have a tool called Webby for webinars, email engine for writing emails, sequences. Um, I have a tool called Script Bot for writing one to one, uh, enrollment conversation questions based frameworks, doctors frameworks. Um, so I, I've. I look at AI agents as not even a standalone, but just as another tool in the multimedia stack that we can give our clients. I still think videos have value. I still think templates have value. You know, in the old days it was just videos and templates. Right, Jeremy? And sort of that's where, you know, as far as like client curriculum or materials that you can help them in between sessions use, or maybe they just buy it. Like I've sold a lot of people just, just license or buy the thing, right. And then use it. They're not even a one to one client, but um, I just look at agents as the next, the new kid on the block when it comes to helping people get things created, drafts created quicker, emails. I think it's great for writing, for ideation. It's getting better at images, not great at images. Still. I still pull my hair out trying to create a YouTube thumbnail with some of these tools. I just give it to my VA because I just, even though I could do it, I don't want to do it. You know kind of thing. So um, yeah, so that's kind of how I see agents. To my knowledge I was one of the first, if not the first to create in a webinar writing tool back in 2022. Um, and that just went bananas. People used to just go nuts over very basic functionality. Then the market has shifted a lot and I think we were talking about before the call, I almost feel like I've over indexed myself into being an AI expert when really my talents are in conversion. Right. And helping um, consultants, coaches, advisors, people who want to get clients, get more clients online. Right. So basically I help advisors and consultants and coaches get clients. That's what I do. Right. And I sort of of over indexed into almost being a software person and, and all of that. And I feel like given the competition in the market from you know Claude is making a historic run right now. Anthropic is a company OpenAI still, you know, charging hard. Their 55 model is pretty good. Codex is pretty good. You know, um, Gemini and Google are sort of hanging around Grok. I mean there's a lot of things going on and almost m everybody is using these tools at some level now. And so I think for all everybody out here who's a consultant or an advisor or coach, just be careful commoditizing yourself as an AI person and make sure to keep your expertise at the front of it, your frameworks at the front of it, your results, your human um, abilities and intuition at the front of what you sell. I'm a big fan of going up market right now. I think there's a lot of money in the top of the market. I think there's money m in the bottom of the market. The middle of the is sort of facing challenges as we talked about before we hit record here. So you know there's a lot going on.

Speaker A: Yeah. But John, uh, talk about you know how you, I know you help people in a variety of ways, right. I mean from done for you to courses. Do you want to talk a little about how you work with people in the various capacities?

Speaker B: My primary focus right now is on the high end of the market. You know, um, you know I've, I'm doing done for you done with you services. So we actually come in if you want a call booking style webinar like we talked about today. You know I'll come in. You know actually I have a series of combination of my AI tools and me will come in, write your presentations, design your presentations, write your pre webinar, post webinar emails, advise you on the strategy, you know, either give your team those assets for you to implement or I have a small team as well that can come in design, edit, set up, technical, uh, systems, systems and all that. So I'm double tripling down on that piece as we speak. On the lower end of the market, I still am selling mainly um, cohorts, so like six uh, week classes. Um, usually those are a couple thousand dollars, um, that people can purchase from me throughout the year from my list or my JV partner networks and stuff like that. Uh, and then some people do just go to my sites or my systems and buy, buy the software, buy the tools kind of on their own. So those are kind of my main offerings. But my primary focus is going upstream. I'm looking for you know, people who uh, are, you know again are client or consultants, advisors, coaches. Their client lifetime values are over $10,000. They have a bit of an email list or a social network that they feel like they're under monetizing. Uh, maybe they're on the referral roller coaster or they're doing random acts of marketing and they want a consistent system to use email and webinars, a simple presentation on a consistent basis to fill their calendar. That, that really is what I'm doubling down on. And yes I do offer done with you or classes around that at periodic times throughout the year. But you know, that's kind of what how I'm working with people right now.

Speaker A: John. Ah, I have one last question uh, before I get into it. Um, I know we have a few minutes left. Uh, people can go to John Schumacher.com to learn more. It'll be linked in in the notes as well. Um, and he's got some great paid resources. He got some great free resources too, a ton on his website. So check it out. John. I find your journey fascinating. Um, how did you even get into this? Okay, maybe just give, take people through a fast forward of. You know, it seems I know your background a little bit early on. It seems almost random. So does mine by the way to what you're doing now.

Speaker B: Now.

Speaker A: So how did you even land into this business?

Speaker B: Yeah, no, you're right. It does sound random to me too. So you know, I have a background in healthcare. I was a physical therapist. Um, you know, you're a chiropractor. Um, I don't know. You don't practice anymore either. I don't believe. Right, so I don't either. It's been a long time. I think it's been 12 years now full time. And I Was kind of doing it on the side before that, but I haven't practiced in 12 years. So I, um, jumped into PT, you know, was all in. I was taking all the seminars, doing all this stuff, and a couple years in, I sort of burned out. And then I read this book called Rich Dad, Poor Dad. That just melted my mind. I was like, oh, my God, what am I doing? I'm working for other people. I don't want to start a small business. Like, it's just. I looked at, like, would I open clinics and all that? I was like, no way. It seemed too risky. So I actually started exploring. This was in my, um, 20s, like, in my later 20s. I was a little late to the entrepreneurial game, I guess, but, um, I guess it really doesn't matter. Um, but I started taking seminars on trading stocks and like, you know, and I went to this T Harv Eckard. You remember T Harv, back in the day at these conferences, right, where they would pitch all these courses. And I was one of those nuts that ran to the back of the room, they pitched. They pitched a program on how to make money on the Internet. This was like. I don't even know what year it was. It was before I went full time. Maybe 2009, I don't know, something like that. Uh, ish. And I ran to the back of the room. They said everybody had made money that had taken this course. I'm like, all right, okay. It turns out they have. You put up a little digital product and put it for a dollar and sell it to your family so they can claim that sort of thing. So it's a little bit like, you know, whatever. But anyway, it seated the idea of doing stuff online. And, um, and then I started, like, looking at different ways to leverage my knowledge in healthcare to get online. So I was actually one of the first physical therapists to, um. One of the first physical therapists to start putting content on YouTube. Um, as me, my friend Aaron, who were still friends today, I think Chad, uh, Chad Madden had a channel. There were a few pts in the space that were like, oh, there's this online thing and you can, like, share your expertise online. And so I took a bunch of classes from a guy named James Wedmore. Um, he was the YouTube guru back then. And if you knew any SEO on YouTube back then, you were golden, man. You could rank a video for a medium competitive keyword, like, real fast. Okay. So I like, you know, started recording these videos. My now wife was, you know, we had these flip phone Cameras, right. Back then there was crappy audio, no editing. Um, I had my assistant do some of them, you know, those kind of things. And I started posting content on, on YouTube and, you know, was able to start getting some views. Um, then I started selling ebooks. You know, back when I had paid somebody, they didn't have any click funnels or there was no. You had to pay somebody to build a page. And, you know, it's usually more than you made back, but, you know, and I remember selling my first 17 ebook. I thought I was, I thought I had made, made it, man. It was like, it was like 10 minute back. Relief was the name of the book. And it showed I had some good stuff in there, right? It was a few YouTube videos and some instructions in this little ebook program. And I sold a few of those, but it never really took off. I mean, enough. I didn't really understand the idea, oh, you need traffic, you need. You know, I was growing on YouTube, but I didn't know how to put it together. Well at that time, I just didn't know what I was doing. Um, but that's how I got into Internet marketing and I just fell in love with this idea. Like, I want to create my own thing. I love the idea of, of making money online and the freedom, freedom is my core value. Um, so I started doing some consulting. After a while I got into live streaming. Back when that was brand new. I did Google Hangouts on air. I was like, I wrote a book on it. I was doing courses on it, consulting on it. I was doing this on the side of my career at first. And then when I started making some, a few thousand dollars and started banking some money doing that, I got into doing webinars, selling that program, and that's really where I got into webinars. Was like I was selling my Hangouts program and I was doing the whole JV webinar thing where like, somebody would invite me to present to their audience, I would come on with the person, we would pitch my product and split the commissions. And I started bouncing around, doing that and really learning webinars. This was probably, I don't know, 13, 14 years ago now these days, when I was still doing it on the side for a while before I went full time. Yeah. And then I just started, you know, doing more webinars, getting referrals to other people, doing more webinars. I had a little product that sold pretty well. It's like, you know, people was so new at the time, like, oh my God, you could live stream from your computer. Right? This was like brand new back then, right? And people were buying the course because it was interesting, right? And just started learning webinars. Learning webinars. Doing a lot of webinars. And that's kind of where I learned initially how to teach beginners how to do webinars. And then I did the webinar Mastery Summits. I started doing more JV webinars. And I started just kind of slowly at first. I was sort of new to webinars, but I was doing them and learning them well enough where I could teach beginners how to do them. And then I just got better and better and better and better and better and better at it. And, uh, just kind of kept in that space, you know, kept. Kept learning and perfecting, you know, And I've had a few detours. Like, we all have other projects and stuff.

Speaker A: But no, John, this has been great. I mean, it's fascinating to me, the. The journey, right? And just, it takes a lot of twists and turns and a lot of learnings. And, uh, no, I really appreciate you sharing one. Just your rock solid webinar structure, format, call booking, uh, system, really, and just your journey. So, um, everyone, check out johnshoemaker.com to learn more. Check out more episodes of the podcast. We'll see everyone next time. And John, I appreciate you sharing.

Speaker B: Thank you, Jeremy. Appreciate it.