Marcelo Bicudo - Founder TravelCash

Speaker A: Hello everyone. This is Wilka Nascimento. I am your host. Welcome to another episode of Wilka Leadership Talks podcast. I'm super happy today to welcome Marcelo Bicudo to the show.

Speaker B: Thank you, Wilka. Very nice to be part of your show. I was really excited to join you today.

Speaker A: And Marcelo, I would love for you to give a little bit of your background now in English because we were catching up in Portuguese. So we just did a switch real quick, uh, but to our listeners, uh, because this is where, you know, the platform and audience is located.

Speaker B: Of course. Well, uh, first of all, I'm, uh, really passionate about the hotel industry. I graduated in a hotel industry, so I'm really, uh, into the hotel business. But as I mentioned to you, we are, uh, I kind of migrated my career into loyalty as well. And, and today I really am fortunate to join the two major experiences in my life. And now I have, uh, a, uh, rewards platform that engage hotels, that engage travelers. And so now I'm able to really, uh, have, uh, both experience into place. And that's how I envision Travel Cash for the travel industry.

Speaker A: And this is awesome because it's one of my favorite topics. That's why I'm like, oh, Marcelo, I need to talk to him. First of all, because you're Brazilians, right? We have a similar story that we immigrated to another country and you know, we did internships and uh, exchange programs and all of that. But Travel Cash today is the company that we are here to talk about, um, you know, besides our ventures with hospitality. But I wanted to hear, uh, the difference between, um, how did you come with, you know, Travel Cash in terms of loyalty programs and, you know, if you can tell us how, you know, you came up with the idea to found this organization, it would be lovely.

Speaker B: Oh, excellent. Actually, uh, when I started working, uh, with loyalty, I research in regards to all of the miles mileage programs and the point systems and uh, everything that was in place. And it's a very, very, uh, small group of companies. So there aren't like, uh, major global players when you think about it. And this really trigged me because I said, wow, there's an opportunity for us to build value on a broader level. Not only, uh, on a regional level. Like usually you find a program that you have within one country or a few countries. So this is, this is how I perceive that there was an opportunity for us to build something that could drive value for the traveler, for the user, as well as for the establishments and the travel ecosystem. So when we started, uh, understanding what were the challenges? And uh, considering where we started, we started with the independent hotels. And we understand that that's the majority of the, uh, hotels in the world, right? So only 10% of the hot in the world are associated with a major international brand. So we're Talking about over 600,000 hotels in which only 60,000 are associated with the Merits and Hiltons and Hyatt's. And so 90% of the hotels are locally operated or regionally operated. So there was an opportunity for us to build something for them to drive more direct bookings. So we fell in love with the challenge. And uh, the first company we started was called All Points Travel, was an independent company as well as an independent loyalty program for independent hotels. We, uh, learned a lot, but the challenge that we had were m. Mostly because there is no playbook. So when you think about what other company has decided to be an independent hotel, a, uh, loyalty program for independent hotels. And there isn't. Ah, so the challenge is that you have to really, uh, try out and how do you say, um, make quick mistakes and build something to learn quickly and change quickly. And then after the pandemic, we understood that we had to make something simpler. And that's how TravelCash came about. TravelCash became a cashback, uh, solution for uh, independent hotels as well, but without being a loyalty program. So we are a replacement of the need of discounts that usually the hotels use and discount depreciate value and cash back builds benefits and builds a, ah, positive agenda for you to engage customers. So that's how it started. I believe there is, um, there is one major challenge that I believe you must be, uh, also aware of it, which is hotels, uh, don't uh, control how much they have spent giving discount. So that means that discount is actually an investment, but there is no accountability about that investment. If you ask a hotel how much have you, have you spent, how much have you invested the last 12 months into discounts? And they say, hell, I don't know. Right. And that's my point, because since it's an investment, when you use cash back, you replace that for something that now is going to be different. And in our case we sponsor 50%. When you change 10% discount into 10% cash back, so it becomes a new revenue that you were losing every day. So this is the concept of travel cash. And uh, we're really excited to be playing this on a global level.

Speaker A: And I love the fact because I live in the US at the moment and I know you are in Europe So how was this transition for you, um, to be in Europe and you know, expand the company there? Because I really like the fact that, you know, it's really simple. I can just download the app as a customer. But talk to us about this transition. You know, leaving Brazil, going to Europe to you know, invest and, and develop the company.

Speaker B: Perfect. The idea of moving to Europe is um, to move from. Well we tested everything in Brazil. We had 2 million users and then we say, okay, now we are ready to expand. So then we learned that uh, we have to find a place that has a maturity into the legal and accounting wise as well as connectivity to everywhere in the world. So we chose the UK as the ideal place for us to get started, uh, something new but structured and regulated. So that was the main reason for us to move into Europe. Uh, Europe also is a very broad, uh, marketplace as far as independent hotels challenging, uh, with distribution. Right. When you think about direct bookings, it's a major issue for any hotel. Uh, and here is a great place to learn from. How can we support different hotels from different cultures using different systems? As you know, the hospitality industry, uh, is a great, uh, uh, actually a huge offer of different systems connectivities. And we're talking about pms, CRS booking, uh, engines, uh, channel management tools, uh, rms. I mean it's, it's, it's tremendous for sure. Mendez. So all this complexity. In regards of our solution, we are very, very simple. We don't demand integration, we only demand a report. And every system can drive a report to us. So that's why we say, okay, we have to be in Europe, we have to, to, to be very close to this ecosystem and think out of the box to see how can we drive value to all of them.

Speaker A: And, and, and just to pig back again, you know, on this, uh, because I was reading the other day, there is companies right in Europe, like startup, um, companies that um. Hey, you know, I have a great example. I was just reading the other day Revolut. So Revolut, it's uh, organization based. I was, you know, with my research and I was like, oh my God, everybody in Brazil knows about Revolut and Revolut is just getting to the United States. So definitely, you know, in terms of expansion, I totally agree with you because also a, um, lot of, you know, hospitality organizations that I've seen and you know, that I've been, became familiar in the last, you know, two years, um, they are based off Europe, in particular in Spain, um, you know, for instance, I know travel, cash, you Mentioned that you had 2 million users in Brazil. But then also, you know, um, I'm sure you are broadening the specs of going out for branded hotels. Is that, you know, also another reason, um, why you, you know, you're physically in your airport, you know, contacting me for my role?

Speaker B: That's, that's exactly right. We are completing two years now being based in Europe. And one uh, thing that I, I, I was really certain prior to coming here was that I wouldn't go for a, uh, customized solution. I wanted to, to always offer tribal cash as it is to be scalable. But here in Europe I learned that there are opportunities for us to build something customized. So uh, we also offer travel cash as a white label solution for a group of hotels that wants to drive value to their delivery. So basically there is no change into the business model. So if you want to have a cashback that applies only to your group of hotels or to have an open model as travel cash, it is as a, as a travel currency. This can be really uh, something that we can drive. And prior to come here I was certain that I wasn't going that way. But here I'm much more open minded into it and I see that we can drive value as well for the two strategies.

Speaker A: And it's so funny also too, last year I visited um, New Zealand, uh, like on a, you know, on a two week trip throughout the country. And the amount of hotels that have stayed that I had not even heard about that particular brand. Of course, you know, they have their own, you know, brand for their country. But I was very surprised, right? And you know, we are in hospitality in the end of the day, right? Because either if we are on the commercial side or you know, on uh, the whole working in the hotels, et cetera. But it's amazing how there's so much opportunities for you know, different markets, markets and of course, you know, once you break into it, right. You learn and that, you know, I think you, you nailed when you said you, you're more, you have more of an open mind. But um, my question now, uh, you know, I'm just very curious in terms of the front end, right? Like to the customer. Because I, prior to the call I did download the app. So now I have it. But you know, how does it work, um, you know, for the customer facing. Because as you know, as a customer I am always a fan of miles and hotel rewards and what is there for me, uh, to really drawing, um, Travelcash.

Speaker B: Perfect. Well the whole strategy of Travelcash is to address a B2B 2C model. That means I'm never going to invest heavily into Google or Meta or anything like that because then I would fall into the same uh, challenge that the OTAs have. They get customers by investing heavily in marketing. So our strategy is always to build value to our partners and therefore build value to their clients. Right. So the hotels is one segment that we play along. Uh, the other segment that we play along is theme parks and attractions. Uh, and now we are expanding into different fields that we could drive travel credits as a benefit to whatever purchase you make. So there, there will be some, some uh, new uh, verticals that we are going to address in the future that is going to be more and more relevant for the user. So from the user standpoint it doesn't matter where you get it. Let's say I went to a hotel website and I saw the cashback over there managed by Travel Cash. So it's basically you just have to purchase as any other purchase is any other time. And as you check out you receive a communication through us saying hey Wilco, I created an account for you, here is your credit. Now you're open to use anywhere in the world. So has to be very simple from the user standpoint. As you mentioned you already download the app but maybe if you didn't know me you would just receive an email from the hotel saying hey, we'll thank you for staying with us. Uh, you paid $1,000, here's $100 back to you and it's already uh, open for you to make a choice and use it right, right now in our app we have a concierge service that works like a travel agents making m you every everything that you need like booking a hotel or a flight or a train or a bus, whatever. Uh, the next steps is to turn that into a marketplace. So we want to provide the same usability that you have in OTAs within our app in order to provide. And uh, one of the solutions that we found and as I uh mentioned to you is nuit A that we just signed and that's one of the new features that we're going to offer into our, our application.

Speaker A: And you know, honestly I love the, the fact that you know, for customers you're making it easier to like you can add money to your account. It's your travel wallet. And you know you're looking for partnerships obviously B2B to expand right the program. But uh, one thing that I want to pick your brain because maybe you know some other people that are on the audience, uh, that are watching this wanted to understand a little further. You said that it's, you learned, uh, with a loyalty program, right? So is your background loyalty and what it's really the, the, the difference between travel cash and loyalty programs.

Speaker B: Perfect. Basically, loyalty programs offer some sort of a credit, uh, vested like a point or a mileage or some sort of a credits that usually the user have a challenge to understand the value. The number one question that I had when, when we had outpoints was only points was how much is that worth? Right. And you have the same challenge with the miles that you have from your airline. And that's a strategy that they apply. When we developed TravelCash, we wanted to make it simple. So we manage as a currency, uh, you can earn the cash back, let's say in Brazil, in reais, but then we turn that into US Dollars at the wallet. And then you can see that you have, let's say, $100 to book a new hotel or a flight or whatever, and you just pay the difference. So you know exactly how much it's worth. And that's one of the main differences. One other cool thing is that usually points and miles, they expire, hours also expire. But just by looking at your balance, just looking. Don't have to transact. Just looking at the app and looking at your balance, you revalidate for another 12 months. So basically, just by looking at your balance once a year, it's valid forever.

Speaker A: Wow, that's amazing. So it's like you log in and then you see your balance. You don't need to take any action because I'm also, you know, I think one of the. I'm, um, a millennial, right? So. But one of the challenges, um, with the mileage loyalty programs and all of that, um, like my mentor, we, last year, you know, we went to New Zealand. And he's like, I said to him, I hope you're getting your miles, your points. And he's like, I don't have time for that. I never understand. And he travels quite often. Like, since I met him, uh, you know, Ricardo has been traveling for 25 years everywhere in the world. And I was like, you should be having this complimentary, you know, using your points. And he just said, it's so confusing. I can never understand. So, like, he's missing an opportunity, right, to go, you know, to come and visit me on a, On a, you know, on a flight that is, uh, complimentary because he used so many times. Right. But it's like, it's so complex. And he always says to me, I can never track down how or if this is still valid or what is the amount of the points, what is translates for me or if I have enough in this particular airline to book international trip. And I'm like, wow, this is, you know, for him it's difficult. He's older and all for me, because I'm in the industry, right? But one thing is you can be on the industry. Like I, I did, uh, I have a, ah, uh, like again, you know, I love the, the rewards and all. I have membership for everything that I can possibly get. And you know, my mind is already like, you know, I'm thinking, am I going to get my points out of these or not? Otherwise I don't want to do it. But, you know, it's like stressful to even think that way because I have like, you know, I have to actually think obsessively, like, oh, I need to get my points. Oh, uh, I need to use this card because I'm gonna get, you know, five time points this time. But however, in the back end, right, you don't know between the agreements, the companies they offer. Like last year, for instance, I went to Montreal for a weekend get away, like three nights and two days. I swear to God, I use my points, right? And next thing you know, I didn't have my complimentary breakfast. I was like. But I used the card. I don't understand. Next thing you know, in the back end, it was booked through a third party, not directly with the hotel. So I missed my benefit. And I was like, oh, no, you didn't do that to me. But, you know, like, this is the confusion. And I, I appreciate very much, you know, that there is, uh, more clarity and simplicity because definitely it's needed. You know, I was not a happy camper, um, to book at that hotel. And knowing that, you know, 43 days I didn't have breakfast for two. And you know, because I was like, well, it's a birthday trip, you know, Montreal, because it's beautiful. And I wanna, you know, uh, it's been a while since I have been there, but I was like, I was shocked. And then I called support, you know, from the credit card. And they were like, yeah, well, you didn't look at this little logo. And I'm like, are you serious? Like. And then I said, go back on my history. Every time I book a hotel, I have complimentary breakfast. And how come you guys have this new partnership with XYZ and you don't inform me, the customer, you know, So I actually canceled that membership, you know, because I was like, well, since I'm not gonna be taking advantage of it. So it's very frustrating because you spend time when you're supposed to be on a trip, and then you're on the phone, and then you already start your hotel experience with that. Like, oh, wow, really? Now I have to, you know, find breakfast because I. And then I'm like, it's. It's a lot, you know, so it's just as stressful as a customer. But definitely, I think, uh, having, like, on the dollar amount value on my wallet, definitely, it's like, make life easier, you know, because then I know if I can just step my card and use, you know, whatever, you know, I make a reservation in a restaurant or, you know, I purchase a flight. Uh, so tell. Talk to us. Like, are you able to purchase activities as well? Uh, you know, what are the other partnerships, uh, that you guys have?

Speaker B: Great. Yeah. Uh, well, we are starting. We tested in Brazil now the partnerships with, uh, with theme parks. And, uh, that's working really, really well, not only to purchase the entrance, uh, ticket, but also for inside, um, payments. Right? So let's say I got, uh, cash back for the. For the tickets. Now I can use it inside as a method of payment. So that's something. That's really awesome.

Speaker A: Um, I'm so happy you're doing this. And again, you know, I have to. I think you can use me as an example for a beta testing of customer experience, because I'll tell you this, I was in Dubai, and I. My concierge at the hotels, you know, I. So he suggested, because I was like, oh, my gosh, there's dolphin tours, right? Dolphin encounters. And I was like, I want it. I want it, because I'm obsessed with dolphins. So. And that, um, morning, I didn't have any, you know, programmed activity that I already booked, so I said, okay, I'm gonna go. So I get there, and it was like, $250, you know, the encounter, whatever. And then I was like, oh, how do I use the benefits to getting to the theme park? Because, you know, you have to have, like, something. They give you, like a bracelet or whatever to enter the park. And then I was like, oh, so I need to be on the line because I thought I bought vip, you know, to go Justin, uh, show. But because it was a theme park, they were like, no, you have to be in this line with all the kids and everybody, you know, to get the bracelets. And I was like, okay, failed already. Because I thought I bought something, you know, that gave me quick access to the activity that I was, you know, going to anyway. So then I got there, I did activity, and then I was like, oh, I can stay at the team park and enjoy the. The water, you know, the, the. The water slides or whatever. But I didn't know because the people in the, uh, in the theme park also didn't know because I had a different color bracelet just for activity. So I was like, oh, I'm confused. You know, so it was very confusing as well. And the next thing you know, I couldn't, um, do the other activities that the theme park had because my, uh, bracelet was only related to the dolphin show. And I was like, oh, this is awkward, because then, you know, theme parks, you. There's like huge lines.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And then you're on this line. And I don't know the system internally that they have about bracelet collars, but, you know, I think this is like, you're going on the right direction here just to the start with team parks, because if you can just tap your phone and pass it on and go on to the next thing you want to do, that is definitely saves time and a better customer experience, for sure.

Speaker B: And what you described is exactly what we engage our partners with, which is first communication, second engagement of all the operational team. So everyone has to be in the same page to understand the value proposition and the mechanics and how everything should work. Right. And then, of course, we suggest, uh, new procedures, new developments of either tools or ways for the experience to be as fluid as possible. Because, uh, sometimes you have, uh, the technology is there to support, but sometimes the technology really is the challenge, because sometimes you have old systems, and that doesn't really apply. So we try to make it as fluid as possible. And we start by engaging the leadership of every single department. So once we start a project, we engage all the departments to discuss, okay, how can we deliver, uh, great experience. Because one thing that I talk about, loyalty is that, uh, points, mileage, cashback, whatever. That's not what makes people loyal. People are loyal to experience. People are loyal to a great service, to a great product. I only come back because I had a great experience. So points. And cashback is just means to an end, right? So if you want to have, um, repeat visitors, if you want to improve your bottom line, you have to pay attention to service. And service comes from communication, comes from expectations. How do you address a problem and you solve it on. On a fluid way.

Speaker A: So, yeah, definitely, I. I love this aspect to be Honest, you know, because as you said, it's the experience. Like, I didn't mind, right? Like, I thought it was quite, you know, um, expensive. But I was like, since I'm here, you know, I want to take this time and, and do. It's my dream, right? Like I, I'm from a part in Brazil that I'm far from the ocean, you know, I mean, Mato Grossi stage. This is what, where I was born. And of course, you know, in, uh, living many years, I've been to the Caribbean and you know, other places, but I haven't done that, right? And I was like, oh, this is an opportunity. I don't know why I haven't done the dolphin encounter and that actually the experience with all that theme park and all the bracelet. I was like, they destroyed my dream.

Speaker B: I know.

Speaker A: I was so frustrated and you know, it's sad to say because I also was a, uh, big, um, you know, theme park, an international theme park. But I was like, in the end I was like, I don't want to go on vacation, you know, that I'm making little Wilka happy, five year old Wilka happy with a dream. And then nothing actually is fluid, right? Like, even the, like, I, you know, I was like prepared to do the encounter thing. So I didn't bring my cash, you know, money, uh, paper money. I just had my phone and in like, you know, sunglasses, you know, sunscreen, all these things. But you know what I mean, I wasn't prepared with, you know, the details to buy an ice cream. You know what I mean? So it's like, because I, I'm again, you know, m. I'm a millennial. I use everything I do with my phone. And they were like, oh, we don't take, uh, Apple pay with American, uh, Express.

Speaker B: I was like, okay, okay, like, what do I do?

Speaker A: Yeah, you know, so if I had the travel cash, if I knew back then, right, I was able to just tap and use, you know, and use it in the resort, right? Like in, in the, the activity zones. But um, I love the idea, uh, Marcelo, I love that, you know, you already, um, have partnerships in Brazil. You already tested out. Now you're expanding. What is the next steps? You know, uh, for travel cash, if you, you know, were to expand within like five years, if you want to

Speaker B: share, that's exciting actually, because, uh, we're doing some major, uh, developments this year in which we will, uh, drive a, uh, huge amount of users to the database. So that's one thing, uh, in order for us to grow it's kind of a, uh, chicken and egg thing. Right? We have to have a large database in order to have more hotels and more parks and more companies engaged, and we have to have those companies in order to have more database. So this is sort of the challenge at the time. Uh, we are, um, working with a new venture that is going to allow major, uh, volume of users to gain on everyday expenditures. So this is something new. I cannot share the details, but I can tell you that we are going to jump from 2 million, I would say at least 10 million this year alone.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: This is the strategy that is going to grow perception from the establishments to say, oh, I have to be part of it. And I'm happy to say that establishments are welcome in a very sustainable model. So there is no, uh, setup fee, there is no monthly fee. They only pay 50% of the benefit that they award their guests. Right. So this is really something. There's no other company in the world, ah, working that way. So I'm, I'm confident that we can bring equilibrium, uh, balance to the market. Supporting more direct bookings, supporting more, um, um, actually not only direct bookings, but support direct relationship with a large volume of people without depending on Google or intermediaries for sure.

Speaker A: And you know, one thing too that I wanted to mention in terms of the benefits. Um, right. Like, because again, the next generation of people, right, uh, the Gen Zs and travelers, they all are using this, right. Their phones. So like I said, I'm, you know, uh, I'm still, I'm already behind. Right. I'm a millennial. But I wanted to make sure that the, you know, my nephew, the next generation, he's able to be, oh, I did this in, you know, five minutes and everything worked. Is this movely m operation, you know, it's. Everything's fantastic. So definitely, you know, you already won a customer, to be honest, because just having, you know, these experiences that I mentioned to you that it wasn't pleasant, you know, but then how do you turn that, you know, customer also right. As a hotelier into, hey, you know, she had an issue and she will come back because we have the structure now behind the scenes that it will make that experience seamless. Uh, um, I'm, uh, an ambassador of that, you know, because I always tell my hotels, you know, and partners that I have discussions with. Have you stopped and think about how is the customer perception to your boutique hotel? How is the customer perception of your breakfast? Uh, right. That you're offering, but not just, uh, services, but also. Or you Know something that they can pay and like a product, but like the services, right? Like how you really make their life easier. Because in the end of the day, you know, like for instance, uh, you can use this in any industry, right? Like I have a car that I have a nap. I'm like, oh my God, there is a nap for me to use my car. That's awesome. And I'm like, I never had a car before that it had an app, you know, and my car is m. Just a Mazda. So it tells me if my doors are locked unlocked and if the, the. The car when I need service. Like everything is on the app. You know, like sometimes I go walk my dogs and I'm like, oh, I forgot something in the car. But I have my phone, I don't even have my key. And then I just open the. The car.

Speaker B: Yeah, the car. Amazing. Amazingly.

Speaker A: M. I think that the, the next generation of people, the Gen Z's in travel and you know, everything, you're using your phone. That's for a fact, right? Like, I cannot even, uh, you know, tell you that it's not. Because it is. Right? Like, of course, generations like ours, you know, millennials and everybody, like, oh, I need a break. Yes, you do. But also, how is the people in Tick Tock, right? Or making sure that they are getting, um, you know, credit in their accounts too. Um, you know, use as a traveler to. For them to purchase any other activity related to hospitality. Right? So I think that's uh, another, you know, that's just a point for you to go attack Tick Tock because, you know, for the amount of merchants these people are selling out there, I never buy anything on Tick Tock because, you know, I have Amazon. So it's like. But it again, I'm um, one generation, right? What about the next generation? Everybody's out there selling, oh, you know, about this coffee cup. You know, it's great because my, my tea is hotter. You know, it's like how you have people marketing your product for you right in the end of the day. And that's, you know, a great example of, you know, scaling in a business. But uh, Marcelo, this was great. Uh, you know, I love to discuss more, but I am respectful of your time. I know you're a busy guy, especially you know, folks in Brazil are coming back from a, uh, holiday weekend and I'm sure you have, you know, a back to back day, you know, in. Even though you are there in Spain. But um, any thoughts, uh, to this next generation of hoteliers, uh, and that you wanted to, you know, share for inspiration of, you know, the travel cash.

Speaker B: Well, I would say if I was an owner of a boutique hotel or even an independent hotel in a city center, it doesn't really matter. I would really focus on what, uh, I was designed for. So let's say a hotel is designed for service. It's designed for experience. It's designed to, uh, create comfort and really customize the service. So focus on that, uh, that what makes people come back. Right? Focus on your data. Right? So get to know Wilka's name and phone number and email to interact with her, you know, by, by having the customer to feel recognized and rewarded in, uh, whatever way. Right. It doesn't have. You don't have to have a loyalty program or, or a cashback program in order to make them feel special. Right? So that's, that's, that's why I say, I say focus on what you're designed for and rely on support for other expertise. So Travelcash is one of the solutions that supports you on your endeavor. And we want to, uh, make our partners, uh, more focused on their, on their business, and that's why we exist.

Speaker A: Fantastic. Well, thank you so much. Marcelo Ricardi was a pleasure talking to you today. We need to redo it because then I want to go further.

Speaker B: Yes, yes, it would be a pleasure. I would love to come back and, uh, share the evolution. Hopefully in six months, we have lots of new features to share and to discuss, and I'm sure your audience is very qualified and, uh, I will be happy to be here again.

Speaker A: Fantastic. Thank you so much, everyone, for listening. And again, this is another episode of WILCA Leadership Talks. Please give us a follow and have a wonderful day, guys. Take care.

Speaker B: Thank you. Bye Bye.