Revenue Insights by Thato Manyoga

Speaker A: Hello everyone, it's Wilka, uh, here with another episode of Wilker Leadership Talks. And today I have Tato Manio. Did I pronounce correct? Um, Tato.

Speaker B: Yep. Okay.

Speaker A: Almost, almost. Welcome to the show.

Speaker B: Thank you, thank you.

Speaker A: It's a pleasure to have you. But please go ahead and introduce yourself to our listeners, uh, in the hospitality industry.

Speaker B: Great. Everyone, uh, my name is Tato Minoga. I've been uh, in hospitality leadership for quite some time. Uh, outside of uh, the hospitality industry, uh, also uh, pursuing a doctorate in organizational leadership. Uh, so, um, leadership is always a fun subject, uh, whether uh, in academia or in a hotel setting.

Speaker A: Definitely. And uh, this is awesome. Like, I didn't know you were uh, you know, getting the PhD. That's fantastic. Yeah.

Speaker B: Hopefully we'll wrap it up soon. It's, it's been a long um, road. Uh, it's almost seven years. So I keep getting emails from the university like you gotta finish soon.

Speaker A: But I bet you know, managing uh, school work and a full time job. Right. Might not be the easiest thing. So how do you, you know, balance both?

Speaker B: For me, balance, uh, it's always a day to day assessment. Like at the end of the day you're like, did I achieve uh, balance in the schedule or was everything all over the place, but really just uh, you know, prioritizing everything. Uh, obviously when you have children they always come first and everything else kind of shifts around it. Uh, but just having a clear, uh, balanced plan in the day helps uh, me work out.

Speaker A: Awesome. Ah, awesome. Yeah, balance is everything. Um, tell me about it because you know, with my two, you know, little puppies, it's definitely challenging.

Speaker B: Exactly. Also with traveling too. So I'm sure that adds another curveball.

Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. But you know, priorities, uh, and you know, that's part of leadership. Right. So I want to get into that, um, straight. Uh, from when did you starting hospitality? Did you have a, um, mentor that guided you to revenue management or was something that you already entered and knowing that you wanted to do that?

Speaker B: Sure. So for, for me, uh, entering hospitality kind of started in adulthood. Uh, I was working in a different industry in uh, the banking industry. And uh, I wanted a change of speed. Uh, so uh, I started uh, in the hotels with uh, a night auditor position overnight just to kind of test the uh, industry and see if I would like it. And uh, from there I kind uh, of learned about the different departments and hotels and how they operate and discovered that uh, there was a business called Revenue Management. Uh, so I started researching uh, it and I was like, this is a good mix of my personality and uh, finance and numbers and still get a chance to deal with people, uh, as well. Uh, so I did have a mentor earlier in my career, Maggie, um, which really helped me, uh, from both the hospitality side and then also as a leadership mentor as well in industry.

Speaker A: Wow. Awesome. And in terms of uh, when you started, because I think, uh, I love that, you know, you started in night auditor. I remember I was working in a hotel by BWI area. Um, and the night audit, night manager was fantastic. He had all hands on decks. If we had an event at the ballroom the next day, he, he already had the staff prepping the night before. Like he was on top of, you know, his game. And sometimes, you know, people um, not really highlight the work. Right. Of the night auditor. But all of the financial of the hotels is in your hands. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah. Uh, you know, and I credit the night auditor because that's the role that kind of sees the back door of all the departments. Ah, right. So if you have heavily food and beverage operations or uh, just a small hotel, really, really any size hotel, you kind of see everything in uh, the back door. From the night auditor role, uh, from there I was able to kind of learn the different departments and then, you know, you kind of make a decision. You have two night auditors. You have one that's bare minimum and then two, uh, the one that says how can I help the rest of the team be efficient in the day, uh, as well. So that's um, the route I took. And uh, with that I learned more and more about the hotel industry.

Speaker A: Yeah, I remember um, when m. I was at the front desk, my, my auditor manager, his name is Matt, uh, at the Annapolis Marriott waterfront back in the day, he would leave me notes daily because I would make mistakes until I've learned. Right. Like how do you post, uh, uh, you know, a pantry charge or you know, on the right account and you know, how do you balance, you know, virtual credit card for, you know, certain partners and etc. But um, definitely, I think NY auditor, they have so much knowledge. Um, it's almost like you really have the financial. Not just on a daily basis, but, you know, end of the month for him was so easy. And I was like, oh my God, how do you run all these reports like in two hours? Uh, you know, so I really appreciate that too. And I did try to do my auditor, but my Sleeping Beauty did not work well.

Speaker B: Yeah, you know, it's uh, it's, it's a tough role because, you know, you're definitely overnight. And you know, what a lot of people don't understand is, you know, you're still part of the front desk team. So if your AM shift doesn't come in, you know, you're staying a little bit longer. Uh, and if someone calls out a third shift, you may have to come back earlier. So, uh, you definitely have to be flexible.

Speaker A: Yeah. And not talking about the weather conditions like by bwi, you know, this would change on a daily basis. So at times we would start at 30% occupancy. End of the day was 95. You know, so that's also another point that I want to get into revenue management because, um, I've had great revenue managers that were, you know, on a daily basis working, uh, with me when I was in the sales department and giving me heads up. Right. Of what did pick up for, you know, next week and what is going on in town. And you know, he was always hand in hand with me and of course as well, you know, getting some of the data insights right to the salesperson. And then we would have discussions of, you know, is this group a, uh, nice piece of business for the hotel? Right. And many times I had to really, uh, explain that sometimes the numbers, uh, you know, it's. The numbers don't lie for sure, but it's the relationship you have to maintain with the client. So how do you balance, you know, with uh, working with, you know, the sales teams that I've worked with throughout the career and ensuring that they are buying. Right. The data to actually sell to the customers in the end of the day.

Speaker B: Yeah. So I would say with revenue management, uh, I always say we're more so the storytellers of uh, the team. So you have your top goal, which is uh, your budget and your roadmap for the year. And then, uh, from there you're playing quarterback and telling the story of how, uh, you want the year to end. So working uh, with the different teams to get them to buy, to understand what the biggest, uh, end goal is for the property and the team. And then also, uh, if uh, things deviate, you know, you're calling audibles and uh, reviewing, you know, business cases, uh, that they may have presented in the past that may have not have worked, uh, but could potentially work, uh, at that point in time. Uh, so really at least working with the teams I've worked with in the past, it's really, uh, collaborative approach, uh, working with the sales managers, directors of sales and events and uh, coordination teams just to make sure that we're on the same page. And I can best support them with information they need as, uh, well, to make, uh, sound business decisions.

Speaker A: Yeah. And also, you know, I think from my green days, uh, when I was at, you know, the hotel level, I remember that at times I did understand why we wouldn't take, uh, a lower rate when we had rooms. We. But you know, it's all about again, revenue management and you know, yielding right through the segmentation. So talk to us about, you know, that dynamic.

Speaker B: I'm sure. Uh, so with um, you know, that dynamic with yielding, uh, it's really understanding in both sides of the story because you're kind of the liaison between the ownership group, asset management, and then, uh, the property onsite team. Uh, so basically when we're looking at, you know, different demand patterns, seasonal, uh, demand, uh, we're just making sure that at least our net rates are, uh, up to par. And then if there's an opportunity to get a little bit more rate for the hotel's profitability, we're maximizing that as well.

Speaker A: Yeah, I, I, you know, another point that I've learned with, you know, the yielding too is the displacement analysis. Right. So for me at the time I was in a, uh, hotel in Queens, New York and you know, like, I was like, oh my God, we're in Queens. It's so hard to sell, right? This is like 15 minutes, 15 years ago. And you know, having the displacement analysis, I could, you know, run my numbers, plug in real quick and, and get the rates that I, you know, I expected according to the budget. But definitely at times it has helped me a lot. And that was the only time that I was actually real surprised by something. Right. Like a new uh, form. And you know, surprisingly, when I came from a small hotel, I did not use any displacement analysis. So do you think there is a difference like between, you know, medium, um, sized branded hotel, then you know, a smaller size, even branded as well, and how, you know, that operate on a daily basis?

Speaker B: Yeah, I'll say especially for full service, uh, hotels running, uh, those displacement analysis, uh, is really key because it'll. A lot of times you think the business is the right fit for the hotel and uh, you want to think it is, uh, but always just uh, you know, second checking and running a displacement analysis, uh, will open your eyes because then you can look at the profitability of the group, uh, or uh, piece of business that you're bringing into the hotel and then you have an opportunity to assess if uh, you have an opportunity to bring up the rate A little bit. Or maybe you can even offer more concessions like free breakfast, uh, based on uh, where the rates are and uh, profitability is uh, with limited service hotels maybe, uh, it's not uh, always uh, the case. Uh, but it also depends on the seasonality of that specific property and if that period of time makes sense. Uh, so I could say it could be a good fit for all types of hotels, but definitely more so full service properties.

Speaker A: Yeah. Awesome. Thank you for that insight. And what, what is your thoughts about the new tools in revenue management these days?

Speaker B: Oh, I think it's, it's uh, it's amazing. The thing that we're missing is a good forecast tool. Once AI can solve forecasting to get us between 3 to 5%, uh, the job will be so much easier.

Speaker A: And with AI, Right. I, that's another point. So like I remember, uh, also right, like every year there is something new in the market and another, you know, um, what is it? Program revenue management from the brand and training and you know, and then the OTA segmentation came about and then I, I remember when I saw, I think it was a OTA insight, I was like, oh my gosh, this m. Makes my life so much easier because I see our rates and everybody else is in the compsat rates, you know, available here. And I really enjoyed that time. But then also uh, I've learned quickly that you have to feed information, otherwise it's not really accurate. Right. So how does that work? You know, feeding the, the information uh, of that particular hotel in of course, you know, in that particular market into this, uh, you know, new tools that are coming out almost every year.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I would say too with um, the new tools, uh, essentially for revenue managers, we're looking for tools that can make uh, our job more efficient and uh, save time that we can focus on more revenue impacting uh, tasks. Uh, so even with all these new um, these tools and AI technology, there's times that it could be overload, like you get uh, data paralysis and uh, you know, you don't know what to do because there's so much data points, uh, that impacts your decision making. Uh, but if you can minimize the tools that you're using that you can focus on the most efficient ones, uh, that'll make the job so much better. Uh, you mentioned like with uh, the rate shops for the OTAs and the different other partners that hotels use. I think that was key because I remember earlier in my career I was doing manual rate shops every morning, uh, first thing in the morning, I Would shop the comp set, I would go to their website, write down the rates, uh, and then decide if we're going to increase or decrease our rates or if uh, our rate strategy made sense. Uh, now you just have so much data at an instance, uh, where you can just wake up, refresh the data, you have your rate shops, and then now you can quickly assess and make, uh, the next decision. So I think it's uh, very amazing. And then also with Power bi, it's another tool where, uh, you're able to incorporate all that information into just one dashboard. Uh, not a lot of companies use it, but I do recommend that if you have the ability to have Power BI and more analytics and just the one stop Shop Dashboard, uh, definitely saves time and uh, increases uh, your decision making capabilities in that moment.

Speaker A: Yeah, and at times in the sales role too. Um, I was joking with my revenue manager, uh, because we were in a downtown location in D.C. and I'm like, man, it's so hard to get a group approved by you. Because he say no, like 70 of the time and he's like, okay, you gotta bring the right business, you know, I'm like, I know, but if last year this group paid $20 less, they are really asking me, why are, what, where is this increase come from? Because it's definitely more than, you know, 3, 5%. So again, you know, I think the analysis of the revenue team definitely helps, you know, understanding the business and then relaying that information, uh, in the end of the day to the customer.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: Um, now if somebody were to ask you, uh, you know, I'm new, I've just left college, uh, where in hospitality should they start and why?

Speaker B: So for me, uh, I am biased to revenue management, uh, but it really depends on, uh, the person's personality and goals. What I do love about our industry is that essentially you can find a place in any department, uh, that fits, uh, your personality, goals or ambitions. Uh, so if you like to be out and about and uh, in the face of customers and winning clients over, you know, the sales team's a perfect stop for you. Uh, if you're more, uh, analytical and want to be involved with the strategy, revenue management's a great, uh, roadmap. And then if you just uh, like traditional hospitality and dealing with guests and uh, impacting the guest experience, then operations is a good route. And if you like to be behind the desk crunching numbers, there's a place for you in finance.

Speaker A: Yeah, actually also I wanted to point out that a lot of times, right, you are managing like five to 10 hotels. Talk to us about how do you, you know, plug into the next thing, uh, we even know with the help of all of these systems.

Speaker B: Yeah, you know, I think more so, uh, when you deal with uh, multi unit assets, it's really managing your time and day, uh, by day, uh, so having a strong uh, calendar system to keep track of everything. And then usually you'll get into your routine with your daily tasks. Now, uh, with our industry, every day is different and you uh, think uh, you're doing one thing and then by 12pm your whole day is going to change. Uh, but that's what makes it exciting as well.

Speaker A: Yeah. And also one thing that I've learned, um, I think was my last hotel too, that it's not just crushing the numbers and displacement analysis and all of that good stuff. Um, if you don't manage the channel manager that, you know, your information that you're changing on the PMS or on, on the OTA side, it can change as well and not be pretty, you know, because we don't like to lose money for our owners.

Speaker B: Right. Yeah, exactly. You know, it's really balance and balancing different systems. Also, uh, uh, having great partners like uh, yourself and uh, your team, you know, just to build that relationship. Uh, you know, the hospitality industry is still about relationships. And uh, you know, there's different times when you need to turn uh, the faucets on or off and yield, manage. And there's different times where you know, we can make sure our partnerships remain strong as well. Uh, so it's really a collaborative effort and get benefits. At the end of the day is a wonderful guest. I get to stay at the properties. Uh, so at the end of the day we're all about hospitality.

Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. And your experience has been in major markets. Right. Like uh, first I think we work together in D.C. and then you manage some hotels, uh, in Miami. So talk to us about, you know, these major markets, the differences, uh, does it impact like your, your, your uh, shift of mindset from, you know, one market to another.

Speaker B: Yeah. So, you know, I think getting a chance, an opportunity to work with different markets, uh, has been really fun because some of the markets I've got to work, uh, within the hospitality industry would be markets I would typically wouldn't travel to or have a reason to travel to. So it definitely gives me insights of those areas, uh, and it also mixes up the day uh, as well. Like your Northeast, uh, hotels are going to operate different than your Southern hotels or your Midwest hotels. And then once you get the chance to learn the seasonal demand drivers and what makes those market specific. Uh, it's kind of uh, fine tuning that strategy. And it's like having multiple children. Like every child has a different personality and that's how we manage the markets. Different personalities for different markets.

Speaker A: And besides that, uh, you also attend conferences, right? Like we met in person last year at HSMAI annual meeting. And how do you also manage managing the hotels, being behind the desk, supporting the teams and you know, still attending those events as well for you know, insights of the industry.

Speaker B: Yeah, those, those insights and industries are very uh, fun. I look forward to them. Uh, because then you get to meet with different like minded, uh, people, different partners, uh, high tech for example, you get to learn about the different technology that's coming into the hotel industry as well and then you get to come back and share it with the teams. Uh, so definitely, I think it's uh, important to, to definitely make time to attend those conferences, uh, for the different areas and uh, the ones that are more impactful to your role. Uh, so for revenue management it kind of has a wider reach, uh, but they're definitely uh, very insightful.

Speaker A: And uh, just out of curiosity, uh, Tato, what are the, I mean some of your experience in revenue management and uh, awards that are out there, right? Like, because there is always like, hey, this hotel, uh, revenue manager won an award because they got a better revpar for the year. Uh, so talk to us about you know, a little bit of what are those rewards really entail and you know, if you can give us clarity. Ah, there.

Speaker B: Yeah, so there, you know, there's different uh, rewards, um, or uh, you know, I would say for revenue managers it's competitions. Uh, so for revpar for revenue, available room is a great indicator for the industry as well. And uh, at the end of the day we're very competitive. Just like the sales team. We want to make sure that our hotels have the best share, uh, best rate growth or occupancy growth, uh, depending on the different market standards. But those are really competitive features where you get to assess your full year and say I really made an impact moving, uh, our share and uh, benchmarking against other revenue managers at other properties as well.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love those. Uh, I remember that particular, uh, revenue manager, by the way, shout out to him, kif, he's awesome. And now I think he is doing asset management. So I was like, oh my gosh, I'm super proud. You know, because people are just um, you know, growing and growing the career too. Um, but any, uh, last. I know we're getting to, you know, the end here. I want to be respectful of your time, but any last words and thoughts of, uh, you know, revenue management, uh, collaboration in the, uh, uh, overall industry?

Speaker B: No, I think, uh, it's growing. You know, 20 years ago, revenue management tests were more, uh, room inventory management. So I feel like, uh, every year revenue management adds more to the plate. Uh, but revenue managers need to be more holistic in their thought process of the total, uh, revenue management for the hotel. Uh, also we're seeing a shift, uh, from just, uh, revpar goals to traffic part to now looking at total revenue management, uh, looking at, uh, both food and beverage revenue management rooms, revenue management meeting space. Uh, so I definitely think that's going to redefine revenue management in the next five, uh, years or even shorter than that. Uh, so I'm excited to see where that path takes us.

Speaker A: So that kind of concerns me for my, um, colleagues in revenue and any sales and events, because, you know, there is quite a few options out there and at times, you know, you have to, hey, I have a, uh, complimentary boardroom for you, you know, if you're trying to get that group and that win. But definitely, I think, you know, improvements are always, uh, a great thing and, and change are also, you know, part of this game writing. It's a daily change and people that don't do well with change, uh, or, you know, are resistant, definitely are left behind, especially with AI coming along. Um, but thank you so much, Tato. This was fun. I love talking to you, picking your br. Uh, industry. And, uh, we have to. To redo another one because there are so many questions that I want to ask in detail and. And you know, that I think, uh, 30, 35 minutes is not enough.

Speaker B: Definitely. I'd love to come back and chat more about, uh, the industry and uh, revenue management, maybe beyond revenue management.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I will see you at, uh, Hsmei Desir.

Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. Look forward to seeing you there.

Speaker A: Thank you so much, Tato.

Speaker B: Thanks. Bye.

Speaker A: Bye.