#404: Dennis McGettigan, From a House of Ten in Dublin to Dubai's Biggest Pub Empire

Speaker A: Foreign. I'll tell you where I've got it wrong. So what happened was, when covet happened, Jakarta and Singapore, that there was no support coming whatsoever in either of those countries. So I closed the two of them. New York, I closed it also. And, um, the reality is it just wasn't manageable unless you were there.

Speaker B: Are you one of these people that thrives under stress and under pressure?

Speaker A: You probably best under pressure. My, uh, old man calls me a fireman putting out fires. It was completely stressful. But at that time, I was just doing my very best.

Speaker B: My guest today is the founder of McGetigans. He was the guy that built the Bonington Hotel as well. He's been here in the region a long time, and he's recently gone through a very difficult period with the conflict that we had impacting hospitality in so many ways. But this guy went about it completely differently. Is he fearful? Is he scared? You'd expect him to be, wouldn't you? But no. Please welcome to the show the incredibly successful entrepreneur, uh, the man in hospitality himself, Dennis McGettigan.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker B: So how much did the building of, uh, the hotel cost to build?

Speaker A: I think nearly 400 million. When I took over that hotel, the total exposure was about 280. And that was between creditors, builders, bank debt. So trying to navigate through that with zero revenue was significantly difficult.

Speaker B: I want to know what, what a businessman like you knowing you've just signed up for 70 million, this massive investment, and then missiles go over. They've never gone over before. What are you think? Well, hi, and welcome to this episode of the show. And if you're watching this on YouTube right now and you haven't subscribed, oh, man, what have I gotta do to get you to subscribe? It would mean an awful lot to me if you did. It costs you nothing, but it enables us to get greater reach, more audience to the show, which means I can get better and better guests for you. If you're listening to this on any podcast channel, then please give us some feedback. Let me know. Am I doing a good job? Could I do a better job? What am I doing badly? And who would you like to see on the show that we haven't had before? Dennis, thanks for coming to join us on the show today.

Speaker A: You're very welcome, and thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

Speaker B: Right. In every country I've ever lived, ever traveled to, there has been an Irish pub. I lived in Sao Paulo, Brazil. We had an Irish pub. I lived in Thailand, I lived in Malaysia. I've lived in Hong Kong, I've lived in Egypt. I've lived all over the place. Slovakia, there's even one there. What is it about the Irish and Irish pubs that seems to work globally?

Speaker A: Personally, I think it's more of a case of what is an Irish pub and, uh, what that means to people. Do you know what I mean? So I know myself. If I go to any country in the world and I want to watch a rugby game, a football game, whatever, I will look up an Irish pub because I'll know that they will have that. Um, and I think generally we have a nice, ah, easy attitude.

Speaker B: Let's talk about Irish people and make some comparisons here, because I think that you have a lot in common with Australians and Kiwis as you have this. As probably the three nations that I would think that have this wanderlust ability. But the ability then, because you want to go and see and explore, but then the ability to settle, which I find quite unusual. What is it about Irish people that makes them want to leave Ireland, go explore the world, but also settle and build businesses?

Speaker A: Yeah, I understand the comparison, uh, you're making. I think, look, Ireland's a tiny country. You know what I mean? I certainly think Irish people punch well above their weight in many regards, but it is a very small country. Ah, there's an awful lot more out there to learn. You know, I think it's a. It's a good place to live, you know, I mean, the, uh. I'm making a mess of this. Sorry. Um, it's a good place to live. Quality of life is very, very good. Ah, standard is very, very good. But it's. It's just natural inquisition. Do you know what I mean? I think people just want to go off. They. They want to see the world. They want to take the best ideas that they see everywhere they go, bring it back if that's what they choose. Uh, or they get caught with a partner and they stay where they are. Yeah.

Speaker B: But for such a small country, I mean, you. There are more Irish people living overseas than there are Americans.

Speaker A: Oh, absolutely.

Speaker B: You think about that for a bit. What's the population of Ireland at the moment?

Speaker A: 5.

Speaker B: 5 million versus 365 million. Yeah, yeah. There's more. That's why when you talk about punching above.

Speaker A: But I suppose I. I think that goes back to, you know, a lot of historical stuff, too. Do you know what I mean? So I think, like, you know, that there was a massive famine in 18. I, uh, think it was 47 or, uh, 18. 45. To 1847, massive famine in Ireland, so people couldn't survive. So I think that's where the majority, uh, of people like Ireland's population then was 8 million. Do you know what I mean? So a lot of people immigrated to the US for, for a better life, you know what I mean? And let's be honest with it, I. Ireland was probably close to a third world country even 40 years or 50 years ago, do you know what I mean? It wasn't that booming economy and the government, I think, have made an awful lot of clever, uh, moves in relation to corporation tax and all that kind of stuff. So I think going back many, many years ago, that's where you have, I think in the US they claim that's about 90 million, uh, of the populate or 70, 80 million of the population is Irish descent. But that's going back a long, long time too. Um, you know, I would still say when I go home, I would still say to people, anybody I talk to, they're, you know, 20 to 30 years of age. Guys, just get out to Dubai. As far as I'm concerned, it's the new land of opportunity per se. Get out there, work your ass off for five, six years. Ah. And if you still like it, stay on. Um, you don't. You're going to set yourself up.

Speaker B: Yeah, good point. Now, you come from a family of ten siblings.

Speaker A: Ten siblings, yeah. I am number six. Uh, so the eldest is about 60 and the youngest is turning 40 next month. So good gap.

Speaker B: I mean, this, this whole Irish big family thing is, is not unusual. It's quite common in Ireland for there to be five or six, you know, siblings. And, you know, in the uk, this is kind of weird, you know. Yeah.

Speaker A: I don't know whether, whether it's a religious thing or not. Um, I think it's, it's, you know, I do think, uh, like my father is now 89 years of age, and I think it was a thing. I don't think people can afford to have that many children anymore, you know, and I think it's just the way, the way things were at those times. And.

Speaker B: But growing up with 10 siblings, I

Speaker A: grew up with 10s. It was a nightmare. Absolute nightmare.

Speaker B: How many boys and how many girls?

Speaker A: Uh, four boys. Six girls. Okay. You know, my dad, he ran, uh, our house like a business, and we all had our jobs to do. We got those jobs done. We got our five pounds at the end of every week, and he would charge us 50% for any clothes my mother bought us, you know, um, it was a business. It was absolutely, uh, militant. The kitchen was locked at 7 o' clock at even if you didn't have your dinner. Tough. That was it. Now, he wasn't a hard man, a very generous guy, don't get me wrong, but he just had to run it like that, you know, as my mother said, this is his business. I was like, okay, fine.

Speaker B: Otherwise it was chaos.

Speaker A: Correct. Um, but look, we all, we all, you know, I, I was crazy into my rugby. We all got on very well. And even more so now, I'd say we get, um, on, you know, I think as siblings get older, uh, you tend to find what you have in common. You know what I mean? And it's a much easier way.

Speaker B: So with the 10 siblings, you've got the kids that come from those siblings, and I'm sure there might be a few grandkids already by now.

Speaker A: Is there 35, um, grandkids at the moment?

Speaker B: So. So I'm just trying to imagine Christmas lunch.

Speaker A: Excuse me? Yeah. So no Christmas lunch. Well, to be fair, everybody has their own, uh, base, you know, if my dad had his way, he would have everybody in his house. So what we do on Christmas morning is we go to mass, then we come back and then everybody, grandchildren, siblings, in laws, everybody, we all show up at his house, um, usually about one o', clock, and we disappear at three and go to our respective homes, you know, so it's, it is crazy, but it's, you know, it's a really nice crazy. Wow.

Speaker B: I can't imagine my mum, My mum's. What's. My mum's six, no, five of them. And I'm, I, I grew up like an only child almost. So I imagine these big families, it just, it was, it always seems so much fun when you see people that come from big families is. And it seemed like it was, you

Speaker A: know, oh, look, you put us all in one room, nobody's getting to talk, just like, that's, that's it. You know what I mean?

Speaker B: Now, your dad started big etigans in Dublin.

Speaker A: Yeah, so, so my dad, he, um, you know, he was one of nine himself. Uh, you know, he was the eldest of the family and, and uh, you know, they were from a very, very poor background. Uh, so he opted to leave school at 14 years of age. Worked on a local bar down the road in a place called Kiln Macrenan beside Letterkenny and Donegal. What he did was then at age 19, uh, he applied to Q and R to get a job on the QE1, uh, so he started washing dishes on the QE1, earning more than his father, by his own admission was earning, uh, in Donegal at that moment in time. So worked as a pot, uh, washer, dishwasher. Ah, excuse me. And then what he did was he worked as. He spent eight years on the QE1 and worked his way up to first class waiter. He then met my mother, who was actually from Southampton. Um, met her, married her, moved to Ireland, uh, bought a pub in uh, a place called Queen street in Dublin for £8,000. And I think he said he had £4,000 saved up, which was a lot of money in 1964. Yeah. So he, um, bought that publisher. Um, you know, there was, it was a very, very rough part of, of town. There was eight previous owners in the previous three years. You know, windows getting smudged, like really, really not good. But he toughed it out and he decided to call that McGettigan's. It's very different to what we're doing here, obviously, but he called that McGettigans. And then he moved on and he bought another pub in liquidation, which is called, um, that was called Kilimanjaro, I think it was called. And he created a, uh, pub called the Bagged Inn. Um, and that was really where I suppose things really off for him. You know, the likes of U2 started off there. David Bowie played there, Tracy Chapman played there, um, the Water Boys, like an awful lot of bands. They all played. And look, it was nothing special, but Ireland had nothing, you know what I mean? So having this venue for young, upand coming bands coming in. Bob Geldoff tells me a very funny story about that. But anyway, um, so he bought the bag and then he, he ventured into hotels. So, you know, bought his first hotel in 1978, the Sheiling Hotel at Rahini, which is now apartments, and, and went on to build six, uh, hotels in, and then ventured into the UK in 2000, sorry, 1999, where he bought the Bonnington Hotel in Southampton Row. Uh, and then he bought a piece of sand here in Dubai. I'm uh, going to say it was about 2005. Uh, at the same time, um, about 2003, he bought Gillette's headquarters in, uh, Hounslow in the UK. Um, and then he built the Bonnington here in Dubai. Um, and so that's, that's it.

Speaker B: So you got into the family business at what age?

Speaker A: Oh God. Listen, um, I kind of touched on. I look, we were collecting glasses at 11, 12 years of age. Okay, you know what I Mean collecting glasses in, in the bars, in the restaurants, serving guests, whatever the case would be. So, so look, it's in your DNA from day one, you know what I mean? I always knew what I wanted to do. And a publican was not that. Um, but I certainly wanted to go into hotels. So, you know, I did that. Finished off my, my, my schooling, went to the uk, did hotel management. Uh, my middle year I went out to Cleveland, Ohio, worked with Marriott for a year. I came back, finished off college and then I went. In 1996, I went to work for Shadow Elan Winery Resort, which is another Marriott property in Atlanta. The Olympics were on. It was a good excuse, but I got great, great training, uh, you know, really good guidance, all that kind of stuff. General manager there. The guy was, it was a Dutch guy, Han. He was, uh, remarkable and a remarkable person to learn off of. Um, so then I suppose 97 was this Hank guy.

Speaker B: Was he like a mentor for you outside of anything, Family?

Speaker A: Yes, because he was. See, in Cleveland, Ohio, he was operations director. He then got his first GM role, which was in Atlanta. And I just picked up the phone and said, hank, can I come down? He said, I'd love to have you down. Do you know what I mean? He knew how you worked and your ethic and all that kind of stuff. Um, so went down there, you know, he made me a supervisor, 20 years of age, which was, you know, pretty, pretty unheard of in, in that circle. Um, the hotel was amazing. Three and a half thousand acres and yeah, ah, three golf courses and at a winery resort. It was just stunning. So that was any great training. Ah, returned back to Ireland. As I say, I think it was about December 97. And um, I think I was off the plane four days. My dad told me to get into one of the hotels, so that's what I did. And I would even tell you the salaries we were getting, but believe me, they weren't, um, flattering at all. But look, we did what we did. We, we, we, we, we all worked very, very hard as children, Cune. I mean, and, uh, it was a great grounding. He, you know, treated us very fairly, certainly, uh, made you work for what you got, um, but would never see you in trouble. Do you know what I mean? So very fair, very fair.

Speaker B: And did, did you kind of like work directly under him by direct instructions every day, or did he keep himself one removed from you?

Speaker A: Well, I went out.

Speaker B: They were learning.

Speaker A: Well, I went into that hotel as general manager, you know, at a very young age. Like I was 22, 23. Do you know what I mean? Very. So yeah I would just report it to him basically, you know. So he would go around every hotel every single day, do you know what I mean? Um, or certainly he would show and where I was maybe three times a week, you know and he would just say look, how's things? What are we doing? You know and I oversaw, we did an extra 90 rooms there, you know, got it uh, brought up star rating, you know so we did a lot of work on that, you know and then I worked within the hotels over that period of time. I worked in the North Star then I worked in the Regency, helped in the apartment a little bit. Um, yeah.

Speaker B: And did every one of the siblings play a role all the way through their careers in the family business?

Speaker A: Yeah, my eldest sister, you know she's still involved in the hotel business. Elder brother, he's involved in the business. Uh one position. Patricia, she's not in the business. Uh Catherine is in the business, uh Lorraine's in the business, James in the business, Dennis in the business. Neil is not in the business. He was, he just got into recruitment. Um, and then Anita is one toe

Speaker B: in so but most people are, but

Speaker A: most of us are.

Speaker B: So you've all got a hospitality background. Bars, restaurants, hotels through all of those early years plus most of the people in the family throughout their career uh,

Speaker A: have something to do with them. Absolutely. It's remarkable you know and our dad didn't push us. Now my youngest sister, she's doing a little bit of HR and stuff like that like she's doing psychotherapy at the moment. That's, that's what she wanted to do but you know it's all by choice though we were never forced to, you know this is the path you need to take, you know what I mean? I know more with my children. My ah, eldest son Daniel is 24 now and he's uh, just started working for me here in blah blah. It's good start a new generation and

Speaker B: when we go back to that beginning here in the UAE, I, I mean I came here January 2005. Yeah so I, I remember what this place was like back then. I think the Madinat had just opened up so it was fairly new. JLT was under construction. There was going to be this amazing lake that yachts were going to sell. Super Doherty when they showed the designs off plan and it was, it was kind of. Everyone knew everyone back then.

Speaker A: Absolutely, yeah.

Speaker B: And I was very familiar. You know wherever I went you could bump into someone and say that you'd know.

Speaker A: Yeah, of course.

Speaker B: And I, I like that, that feeling. And then obviously this place has turned into a monster with so many tourists and the population growth like it's got. But when you remember opening the first McGettigans in JLT.

Speaker A: Oh, look, whatever about the, the first magazine is, what the Bonnington was, was the big one, getting that open, um, because so much had been invested into the country at the time. Um, like getting that open. I remember having director sales, and he said to me, dennis, he said, I have no problem once I get people into the hotel, selling the hotel, it's getting them here. Literally. We were the sixth tower in JLT to open. The roads were all over the place. There was sand everywhere. Like outside of the main restaurant, the Cavendish, there was a bunch of sand just sitting outside the window. You're just like, what is going on here? Do you know what I mean? So that was a struggle. We've managed to get that done. And McGetigan's really came about, you know,

Speaker B: hold on, let's talk about that for a minute because I think it's really important to stay there because you've mentioned it now, because the undertaking of build, designing and building a hotel and then making it work on its own as a business with nothing else for a family of 10. Okay, it was, is a monster on its own.

Speaker A: It was nuts. And, and I, I, uh, you know, honestly, at times I think you need your. I need my head tested at times. You know what I mean? Because, like opening that hotel at the time. Bear in mind, the crash had happened. Nobody wanted to buy apartments. Nobody could close their apartments even if they paid deposit. I tried to do the right thing by giving people back their deposits. I let them amalgamate one and two units to one. Do you know what I mean? So we tried to work with an awful lot of people. Um, but brutally honest, cash flow at that time was, was, was appalling. Like I was working out, how are we going to do this?

Speaker B: Like, how are we actually people some numbers here. So how much did the building of hotel cost to build?

Speaker A: The total tower was in around, I think nearly 400 million at the time.

Speaker B: So 400 million. So you had to find financing and some of your own money to get that built.

Speaker A: Correct.

Speaker B: You've got, you've got 400 million. And then what kind of revenue does that, that business have to make to, to at least wash its face?

Speaker A: Well, there's, there's two, two separate things. It was 400 billion. And then when we, when we eventually sold all the apartments.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Do you know what I mean? That's significantly.

Speaker B: How many apartments were there?

Speaker A: Uh, 272.

Speaker B: Says 200. And did that cover the 400 million?

Speaker A: That covered the 400 million. Then the way it works, I was over 400 million because the way it worked was my bank loan at the time was 150. There was 272. Sorry, that there was the apartments. Um, and then on top of that, like, when I took over that hotel, the total exposure was about 280. And that was between creditors, builders, bank debt, ah, all of that kind of stuff. So trying to navigate through that with zero revenue was, ah, was. Was significantly difficult on your shoulders. Correct.

Speaker B: So. Well, we're in Men's Mental Health Month right now. We're sitting here in June. Talk to me about how, I mean, you're kind of like a. You look like you've got crocodile skin. It's like stuff will bounce off you. But I know that you're a human being like anybody else.

Speaker A: Of course.

Speaker B: Talk to me about the stress of trying to manage that and manage the people around you and just stay positive when that's. That's mega stress.

Speaker A: It's mega stress. It is. But, oh, I don't know, my old man calls me a fireman putting out fires. Um, I think it was completely stressful. And look, I didn't purchase the hotel till a few years after that. But at that time, you know, I was just doing my very best on how to, like, how you juggle things. Like, it was as simple as this. We had like, uh, uh, originally all the apartments were given to us. We had 200 units under our management. So what I tried to do was just get 10 apartments open every single month. Do you know what I mean? And they just tried to do that. And that created cash flow. Then you're trying to sell, you know, the units for a year, create the cash flow, then you get the next 10 done, et cetera, et cetera. And that's really what we had to do. Do you know what I mean? It was just. It was chicken and egg all day long. Um, but we got there. And as I say, you know, the whole point of McGettigans was twof. Um, as I mentioned, I think earlier, McGettigan's, uh, is a bar that I wanted to go to, and I wanted everything in McGettigans that I want. Do you know what I mean? Uh, but McGettigans was more so done to save the Bonnington at that time. Do you know what I mean? Um, I can't remember looking at figures, I won't go into them right now, but McGettigans was doing every bit of what Bonnington was doing, you know, turnover wise, which is crazy.

Speaker B: As a pub, as a pub downstairs

Speaker A: in a car park.

Speaker B: Are you one of these people that thrives under stress and under pressure?

Speaker A: You probably best under pressure.

Speaker B: So when there is a fire, you come alive.

Speaker A: Oh, absolutely, yeah. And take charge because I, I just, I don't mind if, if my senior management staff, they make a mess. But if we're really under pressure, I want to make those decisions completely because then I have no one to blame except myself.

Speaker B: And when there is no stress and no pressure and no fires. Are you somebody that.

Speaker A: No, we still want to be involved.

Speaker B: Are you a bit of a terrorist causing them sometimes?

Speaker A: No, I, I, Look, I, I suppose, you know, many years ago, you know, I, I certainly was micromanaging the business, you know, any major decisions are going to come my way anyway, do you know what I mean? So, so if that's acquisition or, or whatever it is, it will come my way. Do you know what I mean? I've got a super number two, Kent Daniels. His only thing is he's English. But I kind of get over, I get over that. I'm kidding. Um, Kent does a great job and look, if there's any, any problems he has, you know, he'll just bounced off me and you know, to cover himself. But also a bit of guidance, that's all.

Speaker B: Talk to me about how you take a pub in a car park and you turn it into a successful business. What does it take?

Speaker A: What does it take? Well, look, there's a couple of advantages here. Bear in mind. So we opened getting a JLT in November 2010. JLT had kind of, you know, instead of six towers, there might have been 20, 25 towers. Do you know what I mean? So, so things have moved on a bit. I was very. Two things. One, I went to every single Irish event that was going on, you know what I mean? So I went to the Irish Business Network meetings. I, I was all over all of that and I was talking it up and, and you know, really trying to build momentum. Then you had the added addition that you were the only alcohol venue in JLT with people now starting to occupy those buildings. You know, I did a couple of really silly things trying to, you know, get people in there. This was the first night I opened up. Um, you know, I ran a free bar for four hours or five hours. Whatever the case would be, you know what I mean? Just to get people in. There was a queue at 7 o' clock in the evening of about three or four hundred people, you know, and then we just started. We just built as we went along. Like, you know, I remember many of the crew to me, will we do happy hour? Said, no, you don't need to do happy hour right now. Let's just see how this goes. We will add as we go along and see what we have to do. At that time we had entertainment on a Wednesday night only. Sorry, Wednesday and, and Saturday we had a dj. The rest, you know what I mean? So you just learn like, like anybody. Um, I've learned as, as I went along. I. The one thing I always say to my own team, I said, never, ever think you're the best because you will get chewed up. I said, so always be looking behind and in front and always be ahead of it. And that's it.

Speaker B: Who was your m. Nemesis?

Speaker A: I didn't really have one. You know what I mean? Like, you can take, um, like for me at that time, you know what I mean? You had the Irish Village downtown.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You had fiber. Ah, McGee's downtown.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, and for me, you know, the only thing that was even remotely close was probably Nelson's in, In Marsha. You know what I mean? So I wasn't, you know, look, I have an awful lot of respect for Dave Cadnac, run the Irish village for 20 odd years or whatever, you know what I mean? Remarkable guy. Um, but you know, there was nice, uh, what do I say, uh, competitive rivalry, you know what I mean? But we all, we both have great respect for each other and just get

Speaker B: on with things and when you look at places, you know, because McGetigan's is one of the most successful bars here.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: In, in general. T. For sure.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Before that there was the place down at the Minasiahi. I forget what it's called. Alex. Uh, what's it called?

Speaker A: You do the original Barassi. Oh, sorry.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So originally, like when I first came here in January 2005, oh, the brassy was absolutely rocking. It seems to be the place that everyone went to.

Speaker A: Absolutely 100. No, I completely agree with that. And yes, I suppose for me there was a little bit of competition there, but very different. Similar clientele, but different, if that makes any sense.

Speaker B: And who is your ideal client?

Speaker A: My ideal client is absolutely everybody. No ideal client. Look, there's no ideal client. At the end of the day, we're in the business of Hospitality. We're in the business of looking after people. Um, like, I, I would be very open. You know, any nationality is, is very, very welcome to me. Excuse me, Any nationality is very welcome to me. And look, Dubai is a melting pot as far as I'm concerned. Magettigans is a melting pot. You know what I mean?

Speaker B: Um, if you take, if you take, um, McGettigan's food and McGettigan's beverage. In, in. Let's just take JLT.

Speaker A: Oh, okay.

Speaker B: What, what percentage of the revenue is food and what is beverage?

Speaker A: Different venues are different animals. So, so JLT is, is, is. I would say food is probably about 23, uh, 24. But if I take Brasserie and Expo, food, uh, is 70%. If I take Mattinash, it's 35%. Okay, so it's just different venues.

Speaker B: And, and again, the whole world wants to know the answer to these questions because, sure, they sit there pondering, of course, is there, is there more profit in food or more profit in beverage?

Speaker A: Probably, if I'm being very honest, better probably food, more profit. Food, probably, probably. But there's not much in it. I will say that.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: You know, we all go for GPS. We're all looking for 25, 27% gross profit costs.

Speaker B: Across, across, uh, all of you, you're always looking at 25, 27%.

Speaker A: Correct.

Speaker B: Okay. And I, I, I understand when something gets established and I think about these things. There's some, like, some TV shows have lasted the test of time, and yet there's TV shows that have kind of come and gone over the years. They had their time for a period. And you see a lot of venues across the city kind of reinvent themselves.

Speaker A: You have to.

Speaker B: Okay. And they become something else. Or they, they have a refurb, a refit, or, or they completely change altogether and they go from being an Irish pub to an Italian bistro. You know what? And I see that it's kind of like they have this, nightclubs in particular, have this shelf life.

Speaker A: Three, four years. Yeah.

Speaker B: With, with Irish pubs as part of your portfolio. Is that the same? Or are you able to kind of keep that same old method with maybe innovative marketing offers to interest people, but make it always feel the same because people are always comfortable with an Irish pub, no matter what.

Speaker A: Sure. But I, I don't. To me, aesthetics are aesthetics, you know what I mean? Uh, and the people are the people. So if your staff, your food and your beverages are at a very good, high standard, that's the most important. And you're Offering so far as sports and entertainment. If that's of a high standard, it doesn't matter about the box. However, I will say, like, I took over the MadNat in 2016 and that was a, uh, Frio, you know, this brasserie type of restaurant. Um, we made that McGettigan's. Um, I refurbished it last year. Uh, Magettigans. I opened JLT in 2010, as I said, in 2018, I did a full refurb that will be getting another refurb next year. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker B: When you do a refurb, though, for that, let's take McGuffetti M against JLT. You do a refurb. What are you doing to make it different? Is it. You're just thinking, hold on a minute.

Speaker A: You're looking at the mistakes you made in the past, but.

Speaker B: But those mistakes the rest of the world can see. Or is that just because you're.

Speaker A: Well, probably because I'm anal Annie, you know what I mean? Probably. But. But there are things like I really want to do. Like I want to have a situation, say in jlt for. I can say we have a room off to the side called the Baggage, which I named after the Bagot, you know, so we have a room off there. It's really used for gigs and for live sports and stuff like that, I think, you know, I think maybe as you mature, I don't know, like, I want to put in a separate bar in there and I want that soundproofed from the rest of McGettigans. So if you and your wife don't want to listen to music at 2:00 in the morning, you can go in there, have a nice quiet drink, you know, and I have a little terrace out there, do you know what I mean? Um, I want to change the whole barn. I want to bring it out and I want to have an inside out bar within, you know, between the garden and the pub, you know what I mean? So you're just trying to. And, um, more toilets for both ladies and gents, do you know what I mean? So you're just trying to better it all the time. And the last refurb we did, I wanted to get more lady friendly, do you know what I mean? I wanted more women coming, but it was very much a man's bar. And by doing the garden and I think we did it quite nice at that time. Ah, an awful lot more women started coming, do you know what I mean? So. So you're just always analyzing yourself and what you're doing.

Speaker B: Talk to me about the one on the Palm here.

Speaker A: Factory demand. Yeah, so. So I suppose that story really starts with, um, our part. Sorry. So that is a franchise. Okay, so the first franchise, uh, the first franchise I ever did, actually, somebody approached me six, uh, months after I opened him gettings jlt. Uh, and that was the airport. So the airport, we had McGettigans in there until they moved it to make a gate. But Anyway, we had McGettigans there because I was only doing. I'm not a bar guy. I was never a bar guy. Um, I was always hotels. So this was kind of weird. So we opened up McGettigans in the airport. And then I kind of thought to myself, maybe there's something in this. Do you know what I mean? And then I opened up dwtc. So we had three or four at this point. Ah, what I did at that point was, uh, we got approached about, uh, a franchise, ah, with Arenko. So they owned the, um, Hilton on jbr. So they said, look, would you consider putting them yet again in here, Et cetera, et cetera. I said, absolutely. Um, and that was the start of the birth of the franchise model, really. So we did that. Irenco approached me another few years later when they, uh, built both the Marriott and the Hilton on the Pan. I told them I wouldn't give them Magetians at that time. I said, look, it's got to be cold. I have a concept in Ireland, in Donegal, called Warehouse, which is nearly identical to this bar here. I said, look, guys, uh, we're only going to do this. I'm not doing another McGettigans. I've changed my tune since then, by the way. But anyway, so, um, they drove over, Hilton drove over. They, ah, looked at the concept. Yeah, really like it. Um, so that it was, it was Factory by McGettigans. Um, and it's a fabulous bar. They've done a really good job on it. Started off a little bit slow, made a few tweaks, um, and they're doing very well now.

Speaker B: It's where I go to watch the football.

Speaker A: Okay, very good. Um, and I've done a third deal with them there. We come up with a new concept, MacG's. Let's call it McGettigan's Light. Um, and in Albarcia, they bought the Novotel and the Ibis in Albarcia there. And, uh, so we put a MacG's in there and they won best bar from Hotel and Caterer, which is superb.

Speaker B: Okay, so let's go through. You've got McGettigans, you got M. Macg's, you got Brasserie, you got blah blah, which we'll talk about in a minute. You got 1964, you got Goose and Gander, uh, factory, coffee box. Is that all of them?

Speaker A: Yeah. And then certain properties in Ireland.

Speaker B: Okay, but that's here.

Speaker A: Middle East. Correct.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: And we're opening up, uh, let me see, Jump street opens up hopefully in the next two months. That's gonna be another 1964. And then Abu Dhabi, We've opened a fan zone up there along with blah, blah, blah. So Abu Dhabi, were opening Gettigans there in, I think at the end of September, early October.

Speaker B: How do you get it, you know, if you were like the blue car company, because you sell blue cars, because that's what it says on the tin, for example, I can understand how you stay in that lane. But then you become, you know, the blue car company for 90 with the yellow car company for 10. That's a gamble. I find that this is the same with hospitality. You, you're, you're, you're the market leader. Like the name, the face, the place for Irish pubs.

Speaker A: Well, thank you for that. Okay.

Speaker B: Period. There's no, there's no disputing that. Why risk getting involved in other areas? Wine bars, coffee, other, uh, things like that? Did you do this by accident or do you sit down around a big table one day and go, right, come on, let's just. Just challenge ourselves.

Speaker A: Well, I think challengers, I think you have to challenge yourselves. And look, I've got to be kept busy all the time, and you've got to be doing things all the time, or else I just, you know, wouldn't function. Do you know what I mean? So, so the thing with the wine bar. Just take the wine bar, for argument's sake. I, uh, called it 1964 after, you know, my dad's first pub. Do you know what I mean? There was a space in Mad before we refurbished with that was doing nothing like that particular space. It's not a big space. It's probably the size of this room a little bit bigger. That space was doing no revenue. So I said, okay, well, let's think about doing something different here. Do you know what I mean? Let's, you know, it's the same staff, it's the same kitchen. It's a separate, uh, entrance, you know, And I just said, let's, let's give it a go. And it's worked. Do you know what I mean, so I want to do that. I want to do a whole lot of concepts, you know what I mean? I really want to start pushing stuff out because, thank God, I think the name is very good. It's working very, very well. Um, we're getting now to say, look, you can't have this, but you're going to have that. Ah, we will put five mcgettigans, I. E. Goosengander. You know, I couldn't put, um, mcgettigans where Goosengander is, uh, because, you know, when I do a franchise, I give them an exclusivity area and that, that was broken in that. Do you know what I mean? So we came up and we sold an English bar, do you know what I mean? So I will continue to try and, ah, come up with further concepts that are way different to what we're doing.

Speaker B: So here's something that's quite interesting for me. We live in a Muslim country. We have a large population that doesn't drink alcohol at all.

Speaker A: Correct.

Speaker B: Okay. And arguably the minority drink alcohol rather than the majority to take the total population.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Would you agree with that?

Speaker A: 100. Okay.

Speaker B: In the UK we're seeing this ever increasing decline. Uh, we're hearing the news that pubs are closing every week. Nightclubs are closing because the youth is behaving differently towards alcohol. They're not drinking as much as they used to. They're more into their health and fitness than ever before. Is this propaganda? Is this stuff we've been fed that's not true. Or what actually is happening? Compare here to the UK or Ireland.

Speaker A: Ireland. It's very, very similar. I was only having this conversation yesterday. But, um, you see, I think the focal point, look, I think everybody's got way more educated as years, as time has gone by, um, on a general education rather than a few. Do you know what I mean? So I do think, uh, I do think at home particularly, and the UK is the exact same. Um, it was the meeting place, it was the. What's going on for the last seven days? What have you been doing? It was that whole community thing. The world has changed an awful lot here particularly. Sorry, the UK particularly. So, yes, you're going to go to the gym, you might meet your mates in the gym, you might be doing your run, doing your thing. I think there's a huge decline in the uk but I do think the off sales has had a huge, uh, um, effect on that too. And I think an awful lot more people just said, look. And I don't think Covid did any good for anybody in the uk, Ireland, you know what I mean? In that they got used to being at home, they got used to having, having their, their sessions with their friends at home, and that's it. And it's much cheaper. So I do get that. I, I think Dubai is very different. And you can't put, I can't put my finger on it. Dubai, uh, is very different. Uh, like, as I'd mentioned to you before, that the, certainly the neighborhood bars that I have, they have been super resilient, you know what I mean? Um, but people want to get out. They want, you know, and the good weather, I think there's loads of things, but they want that interaction here. You know, I've got, I've got to

Speaker B: take all this into consideration, though, because if I take 10 million across the country, a fraction of that, 10 million of people that would go to a bar, you've got, arguably, okay, from what we see on social media, everyone living a more healthy life than they've ever lived before. You know, whether it's fitness and high rocks and all this other stuff that goes on. So you've got that, that simmering in the background. Um, a population that isn't always going to go yet a thriving business. If you look at the uae, it's like London in terms of the population size.

Speaker A: Yeah, for sure.

Speaker B: With far less as a percentage of people that drink than London.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: And if you, if you were, if you were making that comparison and your whole business here in the UAE was just in London, I would be fearing the success of the Irish pub or the pub. But here, it's kind of, isn't it? It's almost twisted to me. It's like we're in a Muslim country where there's a load of people that don't drink. So you've got a smaller market that you can sell to, yet you absolutely clean the floor, wipe the floor with anything that's going on in London.

Speaker A: But you give everybody a reason, give everybody a reason, why would you not go out? Do you know what I mean? So if I have entertainment seven nights a week, if you've got a pub quiz, God forgive me, but yes, that does happen still, you know, if you have a pub quiz, Ah. You know, if you have your brunches, you're given, like, I keep saying this to my, Saying this to my own team, like, give it. Why do they not want to go out? So just give them everything, everything that we can. And you can afford to do it here. You know, there's A good pool of musicians. You have all the sports, you have the weather, you've got that, you know, I like going out, do you know what I mean? And, and you know, I just, I think it's, it's a very easy one like to buy, if any. I'm talking to anybody in Ireland, the uk, wherever, to get over here, understand it before you say a word, do you know what I mean? And, and see the nightlife and see that, you know, and anybody who's done it like that was amazing. I don't know if I'm answering your question perfectly.

Speaker B: I think, I think getting your perspective is really important to me because whenever, whenever I look at how would those, I look at a business and how would that be successful over here? And we can see that so much has done so well.

Speaker A: It's not transferable all the time. Like, you know, so we've done a lot of really good things.

Speaker B: Where have you got it wrong? Talk to me about where you got it.

Speaker A: I'll tell you where I've got it wrong. So, so if I go back to Covid. Excuse me. So, 2015, like in 2015 I opened Singapore, New York and go away in the space of 12 weeks. Three units, three different continents. It was just ridiculous. Um, New York, we'll come back to that. Singapore. And then a year later I opened up in Jakarta. Now what I found myself doing is I found selling my head chef every three weeks to different continents to just check up on things. I found myself, I remember one time leaving here at 3 in the morning, getting into New York at 8 o' clock in the, or the morning, um, work until 11pm, flying back here, do you know what I mean? It was just unsustainable. So what happened was when Covid happened, um, Jakarta and Singapore, that there was no support coming whatsoever in either of those countries. So I closed the two of them. New, ah, York, I closed it also, do you know what I mean? And, um, the reality is if, you know, I did that because it just wasn't manageable unless you were there or you have a team. So like if I was going to hit the UK again or I was going to hit, um, the US again, you want to open 20 in each place, do you know what I mean? To have scale, to have a team there that can pick up the phone or I can go out once every two months, once a month, whatever, sit with them, go there. But that's the only way it's going to work when you have scale. Ah, here, obviously we're on the ground. We're here, we can watch everything in Ireland. We have enough good people there with our various hotels, you know, me to look after that.

Speaker B: But closing those places down in Singapore,

Speaker A: it was hugely important.

Speaker B: Like, talk to me about the cost of doing something like that, though, because you must have invested quite a bit.

Speaker A: Oh, God. Look, you know, you want to go into costs. Oh, uh, New York was certainly, I'd say, you know, five to seven US at the time.

Speaker B: Hold on, let's make sure the audience understands this. Sorry, five to seven million dollars?

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: You invested in the U.S. correct. Uh, how long did you invest in that before you closed it?

Speaker A: I closed in 20. 20. So five years.

Speaker B: Yeah. For five years after five million. Okay. And how much you invested? Singapore.

Speaker A: Singapore was probably in US dollars, probably about 2 million.

Speaker B: And how long did for you close that?

Speaker A: Uh, again. And that was doing really well, too. I closed that in 2020 also. And I had that same period. Five years.

Speaker B: And these places, they became profitable at

Speaker A: New York never really, Never really took off properly.

Speaker B: You invest $5 million in a. Whatever M. You've got to write that cost down. So let's, let's say that business runs for five years. There's a million dollars of write down each year. Yeah. And revenue and profit, EBITDA and everything else that goes with it. That's a massive risk.

Speaker A: It's a massive risk. It is. But you know what? Uh, this is why I say I think you live and learn too. I suppose you come to a point where, you know, at those times, everything was going right. Do you know what I mean? So if everything's going right, keep going. Um, now I'd be far more calculated about these things.

Speaker B: What does, uh, stress you? What does worry you? What does concern you?

Speaker A: What stresses me and what concerns me? Things that I can't manage. Give me an example. An example.

Speaker B: Um, my wife.

Speaker A: No, look, you know, you can't manage what's gone on in the country for the last three months. You know what I mean? You can't manage that. So that stresses. Because I hate not being in control and I hate not knowing. Do you know what I mean? Uh, and I suppose that really drives me nuts from a personal point of view. You have your goals as to where you want to be personally, with my wife, my children. You have your personal goals where you want to be with personal debt with homes or whatever the case would be. You want to have your personal goals with business debt. And look, I have those things. They're not stressful. Um, you work through all of that stuff, you get through it. Um, I love the challenge of looking at a space and a, trying to convince myself that's the right thing to do, or B, it's not the right thing to do. Um, so. So, you know, and as I say, the only thing that does stress me is, is as a stuff you cannot control. That's all. So Covid was another one of those times, like you couldn't control it. As I said to my father one time, I said I felt like I was a hamster on a wheel. We had about 15. We get against all over the place. Uh, I said, you know what? It's actually fantastic. I said, um, the hamster on the wheel has just got off the wheel and looking at the wheel, you know, and. And that's where your decisions came from.

Speaker B: How often do you speak to your dad?

Speaker A: Uh, not as often as. As I do or as I did. Um, probably I'd say once a week.

Speaker B: And when you talk to him, does he just generally ask you questions about the business?

Speaker A: Uh, yeah, but I suppose since. Since I kind of moved away from his business, per se, and. And it's my own business, um, it's actually much nicer because you're not talking about work all the time. Do you know what I mean? So I'm kind of dude like that. Of course he wants to know everything.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know what I mean? And you might tell him different things you're doing, and he'll say, sound advice at times. I just say, look, Dennis, think about that. You know, maybe don't do that. Do do that. You know, um, or sometimes I just don't tell him, so he doesn't know. And then when him and my mom come over here and say, oh, I won't show you a new place that we did. That's it.

Speaker B: And tell me about your relationship with your mum, because you've talked about your dad. You haven't spoken.

Speaker A: Yeah, my mother's a. An amazing, amazing, amazing lady. To have 10 kids and, you know, to. To rare this all. And. And, you know, superwoman. Definitely the backbone behind my, uh, not backbone. That's not fair. But certainly a very solid pillar for my dad. You know, she. She was the one that absolutely, you know, pushed me to come out to Dubai, Uh, which I wasn't going to do at all. She was, you know, always thought that. That I could add value, whatever the case may be. So she pushed me to come to Dubai, came out, et cetera, et cetera. And then, unfortunately, you know, m. My mother now is. Is what? 81 years of age. And um, she's, ah, this was severe dementia at the moment, you know what I mean? So you go home now and she knows that you're one of hers, but she couldn't put a name on it. And so, you know what I mean? So, you know, it's sad and I suppose, you know, I wouldn't see her as often as probably my brothers and sisters being there all the time. Do you know what I mean? So you see, I, I, you probably see, uh, an elevated level of, of deterioration, do you know what I mean? But, um, but anyway, look, unfortunately, that is life and there's not much we can do about it.

Speaker B: I'm sorry to hear that.

Speaker A: Not at all.

Speaker B: Okay, let's talk about a few more things. I want to get through what happened with Blah Blah. So Blah Blah's his name of this venue here in the uae. I've never been to it myself personally, although I've heard about it.

Speaker A: I'm, um, delighted to hear that.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm to hold a thing.

Speaker A: No, you're not. My, my, the amount of people who said that to me and we', there, uh, have said, my God, I never knew this existed.

Speaker B: I don't even know where it is.

Speaker A: Jbr.

Speaker B: Where?

Speaker A: I'll send you the location. Sorry, what end is it? Uh, you know, uh, middle. So, so you know where Roxy Cinemas. You know, you know where mc.

Speaker B: I know where Roxy Cinemas are.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So, so you keep going down jb or, um, in on the right hand side.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And it's, uh, it's a hundred thousand square feet, which is a football pitch. Is a half a football pitch. What would it give everyone an idea so they can understand what it might be?

Speaker A: I actually don't know what size of football which is. Excuse me. I'm gonna say it's absolutely. Yes, of course it is. It's bigger than the football pitch, I'd say every two times. Yeah.

Speaker B: And so the venue can fit how

Speaker A: many people it can fit if you do concerts there. You see, it's all split up into 19 different bar areas. Um, so the, if you do a concert there, you can put in about three, three and a half thousand. Um, and that was probably one of my biggest attractions to this place because we have done an awful lot of concerts before. We, ah, brought over Ed Sheeran, we brought over Lyta Richie, we brought over, um, Stereophonics. We've done a lot of concerts over the years. Blah blah. No, in, sorry, in, in Media City. Ah, and then we did the football fan zone down at Media City.

Speaker B: Yes, I remember that.

Speaker A: Yeah. So we had150,000 in the space of 23 days, which is, you know, pretty amazing. So, so with blah blah, um, what you have there is you've got a nightclub that holds about 1200 people. You've got the beach club, probably five, 600 people. But when you cover in the pool and you do a concert there, you're into three and a half thousand. Then you've got a restaurant, an outdoor area to that restaurant. You've got an Irish bar upstairs. You've a record, uh, room upstairs. You've got um, another, an English bar above the tent. You've got replay in the back. And you've got a karaoke room for anybody who wants to sing. So it's, it's a monster. And look, right now I'm not going to do anything. I, uh, will make some adjustments, uh, to suit what I want to do. So we'll probably do that over, over the next six months, I would say.

Speaker B: And so, so you buy it, you don't, you don't buy the building.

Speaker A: You buy the lease.

Speaker B: You buy the lease? Yes. So you take over the lease, take

Speaker A: off the lease and obviously key money or whatever.

Speaker B: Okay. And then you have to pay whoever's selling it to you. Okay. First for moving. So what kind of investment do you have to make to take something like that? Give me a ballpark figure. You don't have to be too precise.

Speaker A: To take it on?

Speaker B: Yeah, to take something like that on

Speaker A: for someone to take on, probably, uh, around 70 million.

Speaker B: Okay, so you've got 70 million that you're going to spend and that 17 million spend. How long does it take or do you calculate it will take to make your money back and become profitable?

Speaker A: That's the million dollar question.

Speaker B: Uh, give me a guess.

Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, well, if we didn't have what we had, again, I don't want to harp on about that, but if we didn't know what we had over the last couple of months, it's very hard for me to know, okay? But if I were to take its historic figures, uh, and stuff like that, I would like to think that we can get this done in five years.

Speaker B: Okay, so a five year business strategy around it. Now, you signed for this phenomenal venue just before the war broke out, is that correct?

Speaker A: Yeah, I had a conversation on the 28th of December, uh, last, um, with, with, uh, the owner. I signed an MOU, probably, or we, we shook hands, uh, on the 13th of January. Um, we signed all our documents mid February, and I was to take over at, uh, 3:00 of the morning on the first of March. My wife had just flown out from Ireland. We were sitting in the garden in JLT on that Saturday afternoon and the fireworks started. I just couldn't believe it. But having that said, look, I think it.

Speaker B: Hold on a minute, hold on. Tell me about what your emotions. And we laugh about it, but, uh, I want to know what, what a businessman like you, when that happens, knowing you've just signed up for 70 million, okay, this massive investment and then missiles go over, they've never gone over before, all of a sudden.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: What are you thinking?

Speaker A: I am thinking, uh, I genuinely was probably numb. M. You know what I mean? I remember being in jlt, I think that night I closed. Not. I think I did. I closed every single bar because I didn't know what was going to happen. Um, I was in blah blah at seven o' clock the next morning. Uh, I was probably just numb, I think. And I was like, I don't understand what is going on. And I don't think anybody really knew what was going on until, thank God, the government went and said, look guys, this is what's going on, this is what we're doing. And a phenomenal job at that. So, so once everybody was educated as to what was happening, I think everybody calmed. And that was a hugely important thing to do, uh, for the population that were here. Um, but from my own point of view, I was like, look, I just can't believe this. I just can't believe it. I suppose my, my first. My head went to covet. I was wondering if they got, you know, would the government say, look, everybody needs to stay inside, you know what I mean? All that kind of stuff and the freedom of movement and all that kind of. That will probably got me more than the business itself. Do you know what I mean? Um, during COVID at least I could write myself a letter telling myself I was a, an essential worker so I could get out of the house. But, um, yeah, it was just. Yeah, it was very unsettling. That's. I suppose the best way to put

Speaker B: that is blah, blah, the biggest investment of any venue you've ever made in the uae.

Speaker A: Yes, absolutely.

Speaker B: When you make that kind of decision, how many of you sit around the table to do those numbers and make that decision? And is it. Are you a, uh, kind of. Are you details? Are you concept man?

Speaker A: Concepts and high numbers? Okay, so, so I will.

Speaker B: Do you have like a juju? Is Your gut part of your decision making.

Speaker A: Absolutely. 100. Absolutely. But I will run the numbers to back that up.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Do you know what I mean? So I know I will look at the last four years numbers, uh, you, you go into detail in that. Um, and then you know, you have to look at the benefits of taking on something like blah blah, not just the revenue thing. So one thing I always try to do is, and you kind of spoke about this earlier, one thing I try and do is keep yourself relevant at all times. So like last November we put on Madness in Media City and I also put on Ron and Keating the next day. Do you know what I mean? Did I make a lot of money out of that? No. But why did I do it? Because it's just keeping the brand relevant all the time. So sometimes you do that. Uh, so far as blah blah is concerned, there's a lot of economies of scale going to happen here. Do you know what I mean? So head office is one head office, it's not two. Um, office space itself all now and blah blah, uh, you know, the senior management team, the way I've set it up is each of my outlets pay into the senior management team, um, company and that pays the senior management. So therefore blah blah is now contributing to that. Do you know what I mean? So there's lots of things apart from just revenue, revenue revenue, um, as I say, the economies of scale, uh, and that will just drop into the bottom line.

Speaker B: Was there anybody in your team when this decision was being contemplated that was going, oh, I'm not sure we should do this?

Speaker A: Well, a typical CFO would always have an opinion. Do you know what I mean? Um, and I suppose, look, I don't like doing things until I've convinced everybody that is the right thing to do. So I had a little bit of convincing to do with, with him. Ah, then he saw it and he was like, okay, fair enough, you know, so that's it. So then as long as myself, coo, CFO are happy, that's it, we're doing it. And as long as I agree with you, yes, unless. No, but at the same time, no at the same time to be fair. Okay, look, my father always said to me, Dennis will do what Dennis wants to do. Do you know what I mean? But uh, you know, at this point if, if there was a very, very strong objection and a very well founded strong objection, you would absolutely listen. You know? Mhm.

Speaker B: You told Arabian business, when you commit to do something, you've got to keep going with it.

Speaker A: Yeah, well that's that's it, you know, blah, blah, what was it going to do? Yes, I'm sure I could have had a conversation. Look, guys, let's delay this for six months. But why, why, why do that? You have committed. Um, so just get on with it.

Speaker B: Tell me what's going to happen to Dubai over the course of the next, between now and the end of the year for your business.

Speaker A: We're going what's going to happen or what? And what is my version of what's going to happen?

Speaker B: I mean, I, I look at it and, you know, lots of feedback I've had is like, we've written off this year completely. January 1st or Q1 next year is when we'll probably get positive again. What do you think?

Speaker A: I think Dubai being to Dubai and uh, what I do love about this country is the ability to make decisions and get things done. I have no patience whatsoever. So this country suits me great, because Dubai will have its playbook. It will come out, I would say, in the next week or so. Uh, that playbook will be getting tourists back here, build back up the fabulous brand that is Dubai. They'll build that back up. And for me, I genuinely think October, November, December is going to be like something after Covid, except no restrictions. So I think it's going to be absolute bumper. Uh, I think there will be concerts going on. There will be so much going on here and I think you'll have a lot of pent up from Europe coming in, to be perfectly honest with you, uh, because they have been cut off, uh, completely from Dubai. And as long as Dubai, you know, as long as there's safety here, nobody would care less. Like me myself. Yes. Was I nervous flying home? Like, I probably back and forth five times since the time I had the second flight. I couldn't have cared less whether it was coming in or out. You know what I mean? I didn't feel fearful. I didn't feel, you know, I felt, look, everybody's doing the very, very, very best here. Um, but I think, I think we're gonna have a bumper. Ah, a bumper, uh, Q4 that's on per Q4. Yeah. And, and you know, the other thing, I suppose we're very lucky that we've done the fan zone for both Euros and World cup in the past. We're doing it in blah, blah now. Ah. And that's going to carry a fair bit of, of the summer. Do you know what I mean? So very, very happy that we did that and I'm glad we had a good Name of doing it to re. Employ it to put it back in. And we're seeing good numbers, you know, so that's good.

Speaker B: Wilcox up. That carries you through a period of time where the cools down a little bit. People come back. Concerts busy. I suppose with the World Trade center opening again to exhibitions and stuff like that. That brings business traffic back.

Speaker A: Of course.

Speaker B: Um, I don't know what's on the, on the, on the agenda for that when they're bringing exhibitions back.

Speaker A: But I, I'm personally, I'm not 100 sure at this moment in time.

Speaker B: When you look at what's going on at the moment. There's obviously we spoke earlier about a different hospitality, uh, group getting rid of lots of people in a short period of time. Is there a period of consolidation that you think is going to take place now or do you think everyone's got that stiff upper lip that you've got and is just going to battle through and go through the pain until things get good again in Q4?

Speaker A: I think you've got to go through the pain. Today I was talking to head of marketing and she said she wanted to hire another couple of marketing people.

Speaker B: People.

Speaker A: And I said, but look, where are we? We're the middle of June. I said, you get it out there, you start interviewing the middle of July. You know what I mean? These people start in September. I want everybody here in September. I said so absolutely, get moving, you know what I mean? So like I'm just going to build myself straight through, uh, to try and have the strongest team that we can. I didn't lose any, thank God. I lost one or two people. Not a lot, um, we didn't lose a lot of people and I just want to have a really, really strong team going into the auto.

Speaker B: If you could change anything about hospitality in the uae, what would you change?

Speaker A: Oh God. Um, if there's anything I could change. Sometimes there's a little bit of, of misunderstanding we'll call it and you know, a little bit of bureaucracy just, you know, keeping things a little bit simpler going in. Yeah, we'll keep things a little bit simpler. Oh God. Where do you want me to start? Um, you have, you know that like I think a lot of the hotels for, I can say, you know, who charge their 10 handle fee if your bar is in their, their unit. I, I think that's very wrong in this day and age. I think alcohol in this country is hugely expensive to purchase from my point of view. Uh, and um, to sell to the, the, the end user. Um, So I think that like 10, I think a lot of hotels, I, I won't sign anywhere that charges me 10% going forward. Just don't do it. Say, look, no, I'm not going in. You know that there's, you know, you have to have a, a license for every single musician you have. You know what I mean? I, I think that's, you know, I think that is tough and it's, it's a little bit outdated. Um, you know, everything else, you know, I completely understand. But if it could just be a simpler system for all your licenses, for all of your, your, you know, your health cards, all this. A much simpler system, that's all.

Speaker B: I suppose that maybe, uh, I think in all of our industries we've got things that are great and then we've got things that it's just like, what. Why? Do you remember when they brought out the, the Emirates ID card?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And they said everyone had said we had like a three month window to get an Emirates ID card. I remember there was like two locations in the whole city where everyone had to get them from and there were, there were lines for miles outside the post office on our wasp.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: And, uh, it's like, you haven't thought this through, guys, have you? But hey, if they do one thing bad and nine things great.

Speaker A: Oh, I'm happy. Out completely. 100.

Speaker B: Okay. Um, a few more questions I want to ask you. Sure. How much different to your dad are you?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think there lies the problem. I think we're, we're, uh, I think we're very alike in how we think. Um, I think I'm probably a little more, I could say flamboyant, but I'm certainly more out there. Um, my dad would be very reserved, uh, very well respected, very reserved, you know. Uh, but I think we would think very similarly so far as doing business and putting things together.

Speaker B: When you think about leadership, do you think you're a good leader?

Speaker A: Do I think I'm a good leader? Uh, well, I certainly ask myself that all the time, you know, Uh, I would certainly ask myself that. That all the time. I would like to think that I'm exceptionally fair. I would give anybody the time of day. Um, I would. You know, yesterday with a P and L meeting, I went through a few bits and pieces. Um, I would value and listen to anyone's opinion. Um, and the only way you're going to make a decision is by having everyone's opinion, having the facts, having the figures and say, okay, yeah, let's, let's do that. Um, I think, uh, you know, people come with ideas. If it's good, get it done. Just do it. You know what I mean? So am I a good leader? I hope I am.

Speaker B: Are you a good listener?

Speaker A: I am a good listener, yes.

Speaker B: And do you think that, um, if you think about a leadership lesson that you've learned over the years that really

Speaker A: cost, you know the full facts before you make a decision?

Speaker B: Oh, I meant to.

Speaker A: That, yeah. So if you have the full facts, then you make your decision. But do not shoot off about something if you don't know the full circle.

Speaker B: I think some of the worst decisions I've made from an investment point of view over the years are because I know what I know, but I didn't know enough to know what needed to be known.

Speaker A: Understood.

Speaker B: And so what I have now is a group of four or five people that I go to if I'm going to make, uh, a decision on something. And I just say, can you just look at that? It's one page and tell me if I'm being mad or not, just so that someone can play devil's advocate to ask me some questions that maybe I wouldn't have asked myself?

Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker B: And then. And they're not. They're not related to my business. They're just people that I've known for many years that are successful business people that I know and respect. You know, one's in. One's in the crypto world, one's it. One's an accountant, you know, but just. Just people that know stuff that I don't know that made me stop and go.

Speaker A: And you could have picked up the phone and said, what do you think?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: But. But I also think when you're. When you're going to make a. Not a drastic. But when you're. Wherever you're going to make a decision, you know, I think you're really gonna dwell on that. Um, you gotta dwell on that and don't be hasty. That's all.

Speaker B: But once you go, you gone.

Speaker A: Oh, God. I'm done.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: 100.

Speaker B: Just like you ponder. Make the decision.

Speaker A: Catch up, please.

Speaker B: Yeah, I get it. I get it. I can get that. I can sense that. What's the worst business decision you've made since you've been in the uae?

Speaker A: The worst, uh, business decision I made. Oh, God. Uh, I was gonna say buying the Bonnington off my dad, but, um, let me see. The worst business decision I've ever made. Look, you make plenty of mistakes. Look, nobody gets everything perfect. You Know what I mean? Um, like the original DWTC, for argument's sake, that was huge. That was 20,000 square feet at a time, bearing in mind you had one McGettigan's, which is JLT, that was a big animal. Uh, it cost a fortune to deck it out. Um, and then eventually I was walking out of that lease. Do you know what I mean? That was a fairly big mistake in the uae. However, what it did do is it solidified the Megedigan name. You had an awful lot of tourists after year three. People were just going there, even if they were on their, uh, conferences, whatever, knowing it's there. Um, and funny enough, the second McGedigan's that we opened at DWTC is more profitable, even though it's kind of hidden a little bit because people know the name. Well, where is it? Oh, it's never moved over here, you know, so, yeah, I'd say that was possibly the. The biggest mistake, maybe.

Speaker B: What's. What's the one decision that you've made so far in your career that made you the most money?

Speaker A: Coming up with me getting it. Coming up with it. Yeah, that has. Yeah, that's. That's really, you know, it's a concept that people relate to. They like us and. Yeah, we've just grown and grown and grown. That. And you see, if you take a weighing scale and you look at, you know, the. The various, uh, failures, if you want to call it that, that you've had, I prefer to call them learning mistakes. Uh, but those. If you take that and you take what you have, you've done very well. You know what I mean? Uh, the scales are definitely one way.

Speaker B: You're 50 years old. 51.

Speaker A: 51 in August.

Speaker B: 51. Nearly 50 months. You're 50 years old. I'm 56. I'm six years older than you. What does the word retirement mean

Speaker A: again? I had this conversation last night. Uh, retirement.

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: Uh, I would just be so bored. I. I don't think I could. You know what I mean? Like, there's my dad at 89. I will still call him. I will bounce stuff off him at times. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, so. So the thing is this. Yeah, I can see me doing that, you know, very fortunate. Have a house down this main. Going there tonight. Um, and I will be doing my calls every single day with, you know, the relevant team here, and. And, uh, just keep going, I hope. I think

Speaker B: it's a horrible word. You know, I. I. To me, it's like you're about to die if you're gonna.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. You know, and there's so many people who've worked all their Life, and at 65, they've retired. You're just like. They're dead within a year. Like, what happened there. Yeah.

Speaker B: But also, I think I drive everyone mad. If I retired, everyone around me would hate me. Me.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Because I'd get on their nerves so much. I can. I can tense it in your personality. Sure. You. You and I, um, We don't live flashy lifestyles. We. We're not that. But we live in a flashy place. Great. And there's a lot of flashiness. Did you at, uh, some point live a flashy lifestyle and grow out of it, or did you always just not interested in that?

Speaker A: No, I. I think we were brought up. We were brought up to be exceptionally humble. Um, you know, whether it's an Irish mentality or not. In relation to having a nice car. Jesus. Your neighbor would be like, who does your man think he is? You know what I mean? So I. I think there's maybe. I. I don't know. Personally, yes, I like to have a reasonably nice car. Um, I. I don't think there's anything wrong with having nice things, but I would not be going out and blowing some of the silly things that go on in this town. Um, no, I like to just keep my life pretty simple. Work, go home. Work, go home.

Speaker B: As we get older, don't. Then they have so much money.

Speaker A: I don't give it. Yeah, great.

Speaker B: Okay, I want some quick fire answers to some questions here. So give me some. One word or one sentence answers. Give me one word to describe Dubai in 2026.

Speaker A: I think the growth of a new baby.

Speaker B: The best pub in the world that isn't yours.

Speaker A: Oh, that's very good now, isn't it? Okay, um, I'm gonna say Chios. South Ann street in, uh, Dublin.

Speaker B: What's it called?

Speaker A: Kiosk Chaos.

Speaker B: What's one venue you wish you had opened first?

Speaker A: JLT

Speaker B: hospitality. Are you born with it or you built in it?

Speaker A: I probably think both, in my case. You're born into it. Uh, you have plenty of choices in this world. Uh, but it's what I love, and it just makes me tick. Seeing people happy, coming in, busy. That's it.

Speaker B: Got it. The most, uh, overrated concept in Dubai. Fmb. Right now.

Speaker A: I'm not answering that. That's not fair.

Speaker B: The concept. You don't have to talk about the venue. You can talk about the concept.

Speaker A: Yeah. No,

Speaker B: the hardest phone call you've ever made in business.

Speaker A: In business. Um, I can't think specifically. Um, I can't think specifically.

Speaker B: Talk to me about firing people.

Speaker A: Oh, God. Yeah. Okay.

Speaker B: I hate. I literally hate it.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: I. If I've got to fire someone, it's like it needs to be, you tell me, Spencer, you need to fire him and you need to fire him in the next five minutes. Because if you tell me I've got to prepare to fire him in two days time, I become completely, I think, riddled with guilt.

Speaker A: I get it. And, you know, I often, you know, challenge myself after doing something like that. Do you know, But I think as you get older, you know, I remember walking into, as I said, the Roadster Hotel in Dublin, running the place at 22 years of age. There's this woman, she's 50. And that to me at that time, ancient. Do you know what I mean? Uh, and I'm like, I have to fire this lady. And I'm literally, you know, shaken about doing it. You know what I mean? But I did it. And, um, it's not something I take great pleasure in. It's not. Ah, but if I have to do it, you do it. I'll dwell on it, you know, for a couple of days and then I'll just get on with life and just say, look, you did the right thing.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: And there want to be a very good reason for me to fire someone, to be fair.

Speaker B: Yeah, there has to.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: If you could have dinner with any Irish entrepreneur, living, uh, or dead, who would you choose to have dinner with, living or dead?

Speaker A: Okay, well, I'm not going to go into the dead one. Um, living, who would I love to sit down and have dinner? Possibly J.P. mcManus. Uh, I met his brother. Uh, very funny. Actually, it was St. Patrick's Day three years ago. And I always go around to all the bars on St. Patrick's Day. I'll finish off in JLT. This is about one o' clock in the afternoon. I was sitting there and this gentleman drove to the bar and, um, he had ordered, I think it was a whiskey or something like that. And I didn't have a clue who he was. So I said to the bartender, I said, do me a favor, give that gentleman that Happy St. Patrick's Day. And he said, you know who I am? I said, no, I do not. And it was JP McManus's brother, actually. And, um, so it was actually very cool, you know what I mean? He said, you did not have to do that. And I really appreciate it and I Said, you're very welcome, but I'd love to see jp. You know, my dad's met him a couple of times, um, some of my family on. But I'd love to sit down with them and just to talk about business and just talk about where he went wrong. Right, exactly what we're doing. You know what I mean?

Speaker B: The mistakes you made. Okay, what does Dubai in 2035 look like?

Speaker A: Oh, my God. What? The way it works at the moment, the way we, we. The, the country has been built.

Speaker B: Will I be coming to the Gettygans in a flying taxi?

Speaker A: You know this country as well as I do, Spencer. Probably. I, I think, like, you can see how Dubai's gone. I think it's, it's, it's sprawling outwards. It's, you know, even from our business point of view, uh, the communities are where it's at, you know, and building those communities, people are getting far more comfortable. You remember, as you say in 2005, you'd have no problem going up and down Shakeside Road to go for a beverage wherever. Do you know what I mean? Um, now it's very much community driven. I think it's going to keep going like that. The infrastructure, you know, the Metro, like, they're just building and building and building. Um, I just think it's going to become more efficient and less cars. I do believe that. Less cars. Yeah, I do. Because I think the infrastructure, so far as the Metro, all these other things that are coming on board now. Yeah, but definitely flying taxis. I'm looking forward to that. I'll do the first one.

Speaker B: So your dad opened the Pub in 1964. What's your dad's reaction when he sees what you've become? How does your dad, do you think he's proud?

Speaker A: Ah, uh, he is, yeah. Like, I remember, you know, God, hindsight's a great thing. But I remember coming back, you know, like when we opened New York. And again, this is not a great story, but however, I wanted to watch Leinster playing whoever they're playing in the rugby. That's all I follow is rugby. So the only pub I could find, uh, online was an Irish pub called the Keg Room on West 36 between 5th and 6th. Uh, my wife brought me away for my birthday, but we didn't go till October. So I'm sitting there, tell the mom, I go outside for a cigarette. I'm looking across the road, I see this unit for Rent Etc. Etc. Took a picture, met the landlord the next day. And by the time I got to the Buy on Monday. The contract was on my computer. I rang the old man. I shouldn't call him that, but anyway, I rang the old man, I said, ah, I said, look, I'm thinking about doing New York. And he just said to me, would you do whatever you want because you're doing it right. I said, okay, thanks. That was it. So. So look, no, I'd say this is lovely. Well, it is.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's lovely.

Speaker A: Well, he kind of said, why are you asking me? Yeah, do you know what I mean? So, uh, which is you look, it's a, it's a nice tick box, I guess, for sure.

Speaker B: What will Magettikans be in 50 years time? Who will be running it? And, and is this all about legacy?

Speaker A: I've got five children. Mhm. Um, you know, Daniel is my eldest son. As I say, he's, he's now come over to join us here. Did hotel management, all that stuff now. So he's, he's on board. Um, I have two little gingers who are 9 and 13, and they probably know more about the business than I do because they're just listening all the time. And you know, um, I would love to see. I would love. And I have two girls. And the two girls, one of them might go into the business, one might not. But as I keep saying, I don't care what they did. They do whatever they want to do. I don't know. I don't really know. Like, I think Daniel will get. If he keeps his head and does it, you know, works hard and, you know, doesn't tell me everything. Um, I think he'll do really well, you know what I mean? Um, and the rest of the family. But if they don't go into it, you have to look at that too. So if they don't go into it, I suppose my plan would be, uh, like I've really, thank God, stabilize all of our businesses quite well at this point. Uh, we can expand, um, organically. Um, and we will expand organically. So if we get up to 100, 150, I'd probably try and float it. Do a small IPO, uh, on the London Stock Exchange, cash out 40% and have an executive team looking after the business. But I'll be on the phone every day.

Speaker B: It's interesting you say that. There's a guy that was on the show a little while ago and he did something similar, built the business, took 40 of it with an IPO. And I said, why'd you do an IPO? He said, Because I can't Be sure. My kids want this for the rest of their careers. And so I need to exit for their future just as much as I have to exit some of the business for, uh, for mine. But he still runs the business every day. It's not like.

Speaker A: But there's only so much you can give here. Like, what do your kids need? What did I get? What did you get?

Speaker B: You know, different cultures have different ways of understanding. This guy was Jordanian.

Speaker A: But it like, well, for me, like I, I will help them with a house. Mhm. I, I will make sure that they have, you know, X amount of money to a point. And that's it. They've got to fight, they've got to work. You know, honestly, the rest of it goes to charity. I don't care. Do you know what I mean? And I really mean that because you can destroy people too. Now, of course, it depends what age I am or what age they are at that time. Do you know what I mean? I'll help them on their path, absolutely. Back them up, do whatever. But, um, there's no point in it.

Speaker B: Jimmy Carr says it beautifully, doesn't he, when he says, um, show me a trust fund kid and I'll show you a tortured soul.

Speaker A: There you go.

Speaker B: And I just think that.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, that, that, that. Nice summary.

Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. Lastly, um, your hobbies. Race forces.

Speaker A: Oh, hobbies, yeah. Racehorse.

Speaker B: Tell me about, tell me m. Tell me about Royal Ascot. Tell me about horse racing. How did you get into it? And, and, and, and tell me how much of a passion it is.

Speaker A: And I don't know. As a kid we used to go, you know, we lived in a place called Balls Bridge. And um, Leopardstown racecourse was about 15 minutes. And her dad used to bring, you know, the family was split up so far as he would call us the four small ones. So that was James, Dennis, Neil and Deirdre at the time. So we would go and we would go to the races. He'd give us a fiver, you know what I mean? And in Ireland at the time, you could back a horse, do you know what I mean? And we just loved it. So I think that's where it stems from. He also had a couple of horses. He had a Regency rake who won the Imperial Cup. Ah. Back in, God, I can't remember, 1988 maybe or something like that. Um, so he had an interest in horses. I think by default. We all had a, or so. Not we, but certainly I, uh, took an interest in horses. Um, and I used the brand company here to pay for those horses. Do you know what I mean? Got involved in. In quite a few over the years. Um, but the very special thing about Settle for Bay, um, was Nicola, my wife. She was, uh, diagnosed with cancer in September 2017. And I kind of went into myself a little bit. I wasn't really talking to a lot of people. Ah, because I suppose you're trying to figure out, you know, what the story is, et cetera, et cetera. But anyhow, so what happened was Dave Renan, who was the trainer of Settle for Bay, um, he'd rang me for maybe three months, you know, kept coming on to me, you know, dennis, need to talk to you. Need to talk to you. So I waited till November or. Yeah, November. He said, look, Dennis, I'll tell you now, we're on the Settle for Bay. He said, in Drowda, uh, three times over Christmas, if he makes the mark, we're going to run him in Leopardstown and then we're going to enter him into Ascot. He said, he's got a great chance. And I said, dave, sorry, I was ignoring you. I said, look, unfortunately, Nicola did a little. And he just said to me, will you tell Nicola that she's walking a, uh, winner into Royal Ascot in June? Which I thought was kind of cool. And it happened. So.

Speaker B: Are amazing.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And you're Westwell now.

Speaker A: Oh, thank God. 100%. Yeah.

Speaker B: Good.

Speaker A: Yeah. Still annoy me.

Speaker B: Joking. And. And talk to me about you and racehorses. That. That. That's been in your blood for many years. As a kid, do you. Do you think that, you know, as time goes by, you'll be. You. You focus more time doing that? I mean, how often do you go to watch a race?

Speaker A: Probably not a lot now. Like, we. We, you know, know, as it happens, we. We run an awful lot of the bars at Maidan throughout the season. I probably go out there maybe three times. Do you know what I mean? At home, I. I actually just don't have an awful lot of time to go to them. Like, we have a number of horses at the moment, various syndicates. Yesterday, uh, Jemison came third in Ascot. Um, but I haven't been to, like, the races in. In the UK or Ireland, I'd say, for maybe four years, you know, So I need to try and sort that out, balance my time.

Speaker B: And there's me finished. I just want to talk about university.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: University was a thing that when you and I were young, if you didn't go to university, you were gonna.

Speaker A: You were failed.

Speaker B: You're gonna be a van driver.

Speaker A: Correct.

Speaker B: I Didn't go to university because I became a van drive. No, because I, I, I, I wasn't intelligent enough. They wouldn't send me in at the time. I didn't get, I got one O level and the rest I failed at. So that didn't work for me. But I'm sure you went and did hotel management at uh, uni.

Speaker A: That, that.

Speaker B: Hold on, let me just finish. Because that then, okay, was a thing. The world has evolved into a place where there's a lot of criticism of university today because it's teaching stuff that's almost outdated. We have AI taking over so many different things in so many different ways that you can't even keep up with that. If you had kids right now that were 15, 16 years old and going through their, what we would call low levels and stuff, stuff, would you be advising them to go to university? Or even if you were employing somebody, would you rather have an 18 year old that has three years work, sorry, 21 year old with three years work experience or three years of university experience?

Speaker A: Look, I think education is hugely important. I also think there's horses for courses. So I know, um, I suppose, you know, if one of my kids came to me and said, dad, I'm not going to college, I don't want to go to college, I want to work, I would tell them that they have a better, I think they'd have a better start in life having a third level education. As an employer, employing somebody. If they've got a really good work ethic and a good head about them, I couldn't give a toss whether you have a third level education or not. And um, that's been truthful.

Speaker B: So isn't that a contradiction?

Speaker A: It is a contradiction, but I was, put myself in a personal situation with my children. Uh, if they said absolutely don't want to do it, fine. I just think it gives them a better start, that's all I'm saying. But if somebody came to me looking for a job and they hadn't got a third level education, be it my daughter or be it anybody outside, if they had a work ethic, they had a good cv, I'd be absolutely taking them to work. Corner.

Speaker B: My daughter walked out of her graduation while we were there and as she came out she took the gown off, took her hat off and she put the thing in my hand, the degree in my house because can I go and get a job now, dad?

Speaker A: Well, I think that's great. Look, I just love people with work ethics, you know this. Look, the world is great. You know, you've got so many things going on here, uh, that, that are good fun, but having a work ethic, you can have it all if you just work hard at it. That's all. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker B: Is that the secret at the end of the day, the harder you work, more effort you put in, the more committed you are. Uh, no matter what you do, you will make it.

Speaker A: Yeah. I really do believe that.

Speaker B: Dennis, thank you so much for coming to gentleman Spencer.

Speaker A: And thank you very, very much. I really enjoyed it.

Speaker B: Thanks for your time.

Speaker A: Cheers. Thank you. I'll just do that, should I?