Besties: We put on our first men's retreat! Here's what we learned. | #149

Speaker A: Hi, this is Will Chang and as always, I have my co host Andrew Hsu with me today.

Speaker B: Hey, good to see you.

Speaker A: I just wanted to talk a little bit about this past weekend. We put, uh, a retreat together. So actually you came down to LA from New York and we had six guys come mostly from la, but also from New York down to do a weekend retreat with us. And I wanted to just talk a little bit about why we did it, how we ended up doing it, and then kind of like our, our process of how we thought about it and then kind of like our feedback or maybe like results of where we felt and maybe what we could do to improve. How does that sound?

Speaker B: Yeah, sounds good.

Speaker A: Yeah. So over the last year or so I've been trying to figure out how to create curriculum for myself, to figure out how to find more alignment with myself. And through that I found a lot of things that were helpful, but it wasn't specifically for Asian American men. And so as I've been learning, I've been putting together things, whether it's activities or men's sessions, like three hour men's sessions, men's groups, and I wanted to stress myself and I wanted to put together a weekend. And I didn't really know if I could create value and I didn't have a lot of confidence. And um, so this weekend retreat was a sort of an experiment, a test to see if we could do that. And I brought you in to help me because I didn't know if I could. And so you were very instrumental in helping me plan and figuring out how to move forward with it and ultimately actually thought this weekend was really successful and maybe we could talk a little bit about how we did it and the things that we covered. Yeah, just do a debrief of what we had this past weekend.

Speaker B: Yeah, that makes sense to me. I think I came at it from a similar point where I practiced whatever this is daily for myself. But I hadn't turned it into curriculum before and I wasn't sure frankly how to package it or how it would land. So I think we were kind of in the similar boat. And then it's easier for you to know exactly who to invite and how to share it. And then the kind of setting it up is pretty easy for me. So I thought it was a good split in terms of getting kind of people hyped and finding the right folks and then having it run smoothly. But kind of to your point, I think we're still kind of refining, you know, what went, um, well and what we thought were like challenges, et cetera, from it.

Speaker A: So for anybody that wants to create something, maybe I'd share how we did the creation process just so that people can create their own things. This might be helpful. But basically it started out with an inspiration. So it started out with, you know, you and I have been talking about this for a while and, uh, I had a. I had a car ride with my friend Alex and I was just kind of telling him about what I was working on and what I was thinking about. And as I was starting to talk about my ideas around a weekend retreat, he got really excited and he wanted to join. And I was like, okay, well, since he's so excited and since there's something that something there for him, I want to create this weekend retreat for him and kind of build around him and his excitement. There's three things I wanted to get out of it. First is like, what were my intentions? Intention one was to make sure that everyone that were invited felt like they were among, like, high level peers and they had like a deep connection with each other out of the weekend. So that was number one. Number two was, is there any curriculum that you were doing and any curriculum that I was doing that we can share? Right. And so you're really good at figuring out like kind of goals and defining values. That's something that we talked about. And so, like, can the participants come out with that? And then the third piece was like, okay, I've been working on figuring out like awareness around feeling your feelings. And so can I create curriculum around that? And so before we did anything, I just pitched him and then like five other guy, like actually maybe like 10 guys on this thing is like, okay, I'm putting together a weekend retreat. These are the three intentions I hope that we get out of it. Like, who's in? I like collected six people that were in. And then we just started trying to build a curriculum around it. Like m. I was very comfortable with actually building the connection piece. Cause I've done it before. I've had a lot of practice both in like creating activities, but also mainly facilitating like deep conversations through like a men's group. I was putting on monthly men's groups where I would be facilitating these conversations. And so I was really comfortable with that first one. But then the second and third one. Like, I really had no idea whether or not we could deliver on that one. So that one was a little bit of more of a stretch for us.

Speaker B: It's cool to hear how you kind of how much work you put into it.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: I guess I take it for granted how you kind of tested it and, um, confirmed it before inviting each person. So it's actually very interesting to me to kind of hear your process. I think we have some overlap. So my goals were smooth logistics, so everything ran really smoothly. So people could focus on being with each other, application of beliefs and what they figure out, because I'm a very applied kind of guy. Whereas as soon as you have something, how do you kind of integrate it into something that works for you? And then I think where we overlap is the good hang part or fellowship or vulnerability. Because I've ran different just regular hangs without curriculum. And I knew, for example, I wanted to do a hike because I know people speed up and slow down. And so it actually lets different groups catch up on different topics for a long period of time. I knew the right amount of curriculum and like how to blend it with food and energy. So for example, I. It was great. You already incorporated breathing exercises before the start of a specific session. So kind of get people's energy in the right place. And then also wanting to blend the right amount of free time. I feel like we kind of hit the middle of our experience and I feel like after this we might go more curriculum heavy. Right. Because the free time was great. But it almost left me wanting one of either direction. Either let me do a full just hang, get to know these guys and. Yeah. Or make it more full curriculum and just take me deep on the work as much as possible. Or maybe there's like a dark horse third candidate, which is we could actually do a retreat on a per topic basis, I guess, kind of putting together everything we had, which is your ability to get people hyped and find the right people and their needs, my ability to plan, but then all around one topic. So there is a curriculum maybe. Right. But it's all focused on this one curriculum theme. For example, everyone is, you know, at a founder that might exit, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, that was kind of my outlook on the weekend.

Speaker A: So out of the three things, maybe it'd be helpful for people, like, what was the curriculum? And like, at least maybe my piece is how I thought about it and like what we actually did. And so at least for the men's group piece, or at least for the connection piece, I'll just share a little bit about how I thought about it and how I structured it so that maybe other people can do it as well. So, uh, I brought in six people, including you and me. And my intention was that we needed to get everyone to connect as soon as possible when we could and basically let go of a lot of the things that, you know, needing to show value and a lot of the things and basically get everyone a little bit of a deeper connection so that it'll set like basically the rest of the weekend up where people can actually be open and sharing. And so the way that I did it was basically having the first night be like a three hour conversation. And prior to the weekend, I gave everyone a set of rules and a set of things to think about. These rules included, like, not giving advice unless being asked for being on time, paying attention and full focus of the group. Don't talk about other men's stories, be willing to say and hear hard stuff without judgment, uh, being full of transparency and vulnerability and holding each other accountable. Those are some of the rules going in. And basically we started off with a breathing exercise. I just put on Wim Hof. So Wim hof, there's a YouTube exercise and basically calms everyone down. And then I start as the person that is here to create the vibes of the weekend. I'm the first one that shares. And so the agenda is like, everyone goes around and we talk about like our wins and learnings, our challenges for the month. And then what's really important for me is to be able to share as vulnerably and as openly about my challenges and my struggles that I've been facing. And that gives the permission for everybody else to go into their own. And then coming out of it, as I'm facilitating the conversation, making sure that people are like, I'm asking additional questions and making sure people are sharing the things that they need to share. By the end of the three hours, we'll have at least a deeper understanding of each other, even though nobody really knows each other. So it's like 10 minutes of sharing for each person. And then people can volunteer to be in the hot seat where they have a specific thing that they're working on. And we just basically ask them questions and help them kind of think through their situation. And what people start really understanding is that everyone is actually going through very similar things. And because we're all going the same things or we have gone through the same things, we can just share our own experiences to help people think through what's going on in their own lives and help people understand that they're not the only one that's going through it.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, that makes sense to me. I thought it was great. I wouldn't change too much on Friday, given the amount of work that went into sourcing, I think is how I think about it, it may have to change if sourcing was different is kind of my only observation there. But I mean, I loved it. I loved Friday night sourcing.

Speaker A: What do you mean by sourcing?

Speaker B: If there are strangers coming in? Right. I think people came in with an inherent amount of trust kind of already built in, which, you know, maybe will always be the case. That could be a high hope, but may not be. But otherwise, no, I, I don't think I'd change anything about Friday. Another thing maybe is, yeah, if it is us, uh, a bit more strangers, then, you know, we just want to get the house set up and other items earlier. But it's pretty smooth.

Speaker A: I mean, for sure, the, the filter process was really about who would get along and the shared values and everyone had something to offer. And also everyone would came in with like a pretty humble attitude, an open attitude. That's really important. Right. And I knew each person, I knew what they were going to get out of it. So it was pretty easy to facilitate the conversations. Whereas, yeah, if, if we do start opening it up, then there probably would need to be a lot more of a filtering process so that we can find the right people for the right groups.

Speaker B: Yeah, you just actually reminded me too that, uh, we had discussed kind of an onboarding, maybe via paper, but I mean, effectively it might be. They must have already like, worked or worked with one of us or knows us. Right. And then you kind of just wouldn't have the issue. So something just keep an eye on, basically.

Speaker A: So Friday night and then Saturday morning we did a small hike which gave everyone some time to spend time with each other, get to know each other. Without a formalized process, the hike could have been harder. Like, uh, there could have been more of a physical exertion, but it was just a very chill hike. And so, yeah, I think next time we wanted to make it a little bit more of a challenge so that people kind of feel like they've gone through something versus just a leisurely stroll, which is what it was. We hiked up the grub, this observatory, so we were in a little bit of nature, but it was a very chill hike.

Speaker B: Yeah, I actually wonder if we should replace that with curriculum straight away and just make the big hike or whatever it is on Sunday versus Saturday morning. Again, like kind of keeping the focus. Yeah, it's definitely something I wonder about. I also wonder if there's priming work we could do Friday night after that session where there's kind of a written exercise, so they're kind of coming into the next day and flowing into the next piece.

Speaker A: Do you want to talk a little bit about your curriculum?

Speaker B: Should we do a quick breakdown on your curriculum, like your output first? Right. Because, you know, in our preparation, we just saw that my curriculum, quote unquote, is about the application of kind of what you're helping draw out of people. And then I think it might fit more into my quote unquote system.

Speaker A: Yeah. So I can start. So I thought one of the most helpful things, at least for me, and as I've been coaching other people, was understanding or bringing awareness to our core beliefs, to bring awareness to our emotions and then being able to source those emotions back to our childhood. And so my curriculum was really around three things or three concepts that I learned, and that has been really helpful to people and then showing people how it's done. So the first concept is our beliefs shape our reality. And there's this framework called Beckar that we've talked about before. Beliefs inform emotions, emotions inform thoughts, thoughts inform choices, choices inform actions, actions inform results, and then results reinforce the belief. So it's a cycle. Right. And so if. Even though if you want to change your actions to change your results, if you don't change your beliefs, your actions will go back to what it was before and you'll never actually change. So, like, basically, you want to make sure you know what your beliefs are in order to change your reality. The second piece is that especially as Asian Americans, we are not really taught what emotions are. And so we actually feel all of our emotions, and emotions are actually all bodily sensations at a young age, just like girls are taught to associate those bodily sensations with a label, and that label is emotions. Whereas for us, our radar is kind of broken. And so even though we do feel those bodily sensations, we don't know that those are emotions. And a lot of times we just, like, shut down our radar or our sensor so that even if we are feeling those bodily sensations, we kind of ignore them. And without having the ability to really feel our bodies and feel where it's directing us, we lose kind of the sense of where we should be in alignment. And our logic and our reasoning kind of will force us to places where actually our body and our actually true selves don't want to be, and it becomes miserable. And the third concept is that in Buddhism, there's the monkey mind, in Christianity, there's the devil on the shoulder, but there's a lot of voices in our heads and there's a lot of parts in us and a lot of our core beliefs and our core emotions. Whenever we have a trigger, which means an overreaction, an emotional overreaction to something, a situation, it means that a part of ourselves that has been touched, some type of emotion, some type of core belief that was formed when we were children as a way to protect ourselves because we weren't feeling safe. And so that'll come out, those emotions and those core beliefs will come out as when that is being touched. And so it's really important to be able to figure out when that emotion is happening and be able to source at uh, what point, like how old is that will for example? That is feeling that emotion because that will is not 40, but it's actually a seven year old will feeling that emotion. And so putting it all together then we started basically doing like a group uh, coaching session where I've asked for a volunteer. I help people kind of go through that process of figuring out the beliefs, figuring out like feeling their emotions physically, then being able to source that emotion back to their childhood self to figure out like where it was formed. And I try to do that for an hour or so so that people could kind of see it in action so they can possibly do it themselves in the future.

Speaker B: Yeah. To summarize that I take out of that is that's all the work that someone does to become self aware of themselves. So their beliefs, their emotions, likely sources or triggers and to actually notice it, which is not an easy thing. And then I felt like it fit uh, well into what I try and do is so kind of my own system for applying how I try to be more aware of those things on a day to day basis. And then as you already kind of talked about, how do I notice the emotional state that I'm in and then uh, shift it with intention to like an ideal emotional state where possible because that's kind of the ideal way to drive your actions. So kind of the application. But on top of that I just didn't know where people would be coming in from. And so I structured mine so that I would tell the story about how I grew up and kind of wrestling with all those beliefs and emotions and learning to hear emotions and then realizing that there are different personalities and people within you. Kind of to your point, I think you were talking about on your third one about kind of ifs probably right, uh, and being okay with all of that existing is already a big piece. So that was kind of the story. And I hoped by sharing that because I didn't know where people were coming in from, it would either inspire people that were in different stages or hopefully help them kind of believe why I landed on the application that I did. And then from there we got into the application piece, which was kind of reminder system, honestly, that should be tailored to someone's own life. About when is the best moment to kind of remind yourself of what your body, your emotions or your intellect need for that day and how to kind of change yourself or uh, change your state at that moment to be closer, aligned with kind of your ideal identity or emotion. And then just sharing that it really is work every day. Like awareness or being aware of those kind of beliefs and emotions is just the start. And then you actually have to like figure out how you kind of work on it each day.

Speaker A: I really liked that one slide that you have. Can you go through that slide where it's like the B and the do?

Speaker B: Yeah. So I mean, this is actually the end point tying to your whole piece. So. And this was the Hoffman concept. As soon as you hear it, if you believe it, you start to see it everywhere though, which is also very cool. And so the concept is basically most people, they start including myself in this world, they are, uh, do and then be and then get. So if I do, if I go to college and I get a great job and I do hard work, I will get an awesome house and a wife and a family and I'll be happy. I don't think I got that exactly right. But do get B right. Yeah, do get B right is what I think most people. That's kind of the standard operating. But the most powerful way to actually do it is to be first and so be happy or be honest or basically choose the state that you, you know, you feel the best in. And you try and be in that state and then from there you do actions that are aligned with it. So if you are already happy or you're already calm or whatever it is that your body or your mind needs, you push towards already being in that state. And then your actions will follow and they will kind of further reinforce it and then you'll get kind of that continuation of that feeling. You know, I put this in the story. I think when you're trying to solve your internal state, uh, you many times start living life like a to do list because you're just trying to like make the pain less, less. But ultimately it's not as fulfilling. Right. Because we're not machines that can work off like, oh, if I do these Things I'll be happy. And by making this switch, you kind of. You imagine the state and you imagine yourself when you felt the most happy or you felt whatever it is that you need that day, um, that state. And by remembering that, your body starts to shift, right? Like, your posture changes a bit, how you think opens up a bit changes, and then it's not prescriptive. And then you can look at the world around you and the opportunities that are in front of you and the possibilities and choose the one that fits that state for you at that moment. And then, as you can imagine, by doing that, it reinforces, you know, you're getting what that emotion kind of draws and it fits it, right? And, uh, it's a nice change. It's not easy by any stretch to do, right? And what you need changes daily. How you imagine it changes daily. And what you choose to do changes daily. So it really is a constant kind of work in progress. The coolest thing I'm reading right now is actually this book called Anam Kara, which is the Gaelic word for soul friend. And it's pretty amazing. But he describes how in this day and age, a lot of people, you try and solve your inner self just like you solve anything else. And a beautiful point he makes is that the inner self isn't like something you just solve, and it's constantly changing as well. And so it's more. You catch glimpses of it and you have to listen and kind of approach it sideways. And it's just a relationship that you have internally. And the amazing thing is that you are the connection between your inner world, which you can't ever fully figure out or map, and. And the outer world, right? Which I thought was a much more kind of poetic way to think about what you're basically trying to do, right? It's not a clear equation that you solve. It's just if you be and feel and do, like, things a certain way, you connect more with your inner inspiration. And then you can then hopefully connect it with the external that's in front of you. So that's what I was trying to encompass. It's a very difficult thing to encompass. And that's actually one of the pieces that I wanted to talk to you about today, which is like, you know, getting more refined on what we hope people take away, which is. Right, there's awareness, which I think is something they took away, but there's awareness, there's these concepts, but there's also potentially states we'd aim for, right? Like, were you content? And then there's also actually actions. Right? Could we find the right reflection time and technique for each person? And I don't know, it's really hard to fit into a day and a half to two days. So I thought that would actually be one of the big pieces you and I would try to refine in terms of what we hope people take away. Or it needs to be split out over a whole year or six months and there needs to be multiple sessions where each one is aimed at a different thing.

Speaker A: I guess one of the things that uh, I've been recently kind of obsessed with or not obsessed with, but a good framework for me that actually I've been looking everything through is this concept of the four stages of development. So to me which is like victim mentality, the universe is working against me or things are happening to me. The second one is buy me. So once you have an understanding that you have high agency then world is your oyster and you can basically affect all results and you can do anything. So that's by me and I think that's where most of us are at, especially high achieving Asian Americans. Through me is the next one. Right. And this is kind of what we're talking about where how do you just be. And this is like flow state. So this is when people are talking about how they're writing a song and it just goes through them. This is actually the state where you want to be. Cuz you're not working against yourself. You're basically finding something like some type of source and it's just go working through you. You feel this when basically in flow state. And then fourth is as me. So you're connected to the universe and I don't really know what that feels like. I'm not at that stage right now so it's too crazy for me. But at least I know what through me feels like. And I think that one of the things that I actually really want to do is to basically move people from by me to through me. Because by me is very freeing when you first discover it. But then it becomes very controlling and painful when he gets the end of it. Right. Because you know that everything is controllable. Then you try to control everything. There's a lot of suffering, pain when it comes to it. And when uh, things don't work out then you blame yourself because you're not good enough. Right. And through me is this new way where it's like finding the moments of inspiration within you and then just following that. And it's a lot about finding alignment and a lot of it is about tapping into the awareness and tapping into yourself and kind of sailing. Right. So basically using the wind and the waters to move you toward the direction that you want versus forcing it. And so I think that all the concepts that we talk about is basically moving people through me. And I think the type of people that we're all friends with right now and the pain that we kind of see that we are solving for ourselves and others is this buy me to through me concept.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'd agree with that. I think definitely that's what I'm aiming at every day of just noticing those inspirations. Right. Noticing your imagination again. Yeah. Being less controlling or freaking out, extrapolating, et cetera. So I think that's a good one.

Speaker A: A lot of it is like, basically before the buy me is basically like, this is how you row really hard, and this is your direction, and you're just rowing really hard. And this is how you train and row really hard versus, like, the next one, which is through me is like, how do you actually look at the sun and the moon and the wind and, like, actually increase your sensors so you can actually be able to ride? That's like, how do you basically increase your sensors for your feelings? How do you increase your sensors for your inspiration and find the waves to ride versus just forcing it?

Speaker B: Yes. Well, I mean, the thing that I see is it's kind of on both fronts. Meaning, like, it's those sensors with the external world around you and then also the internal world. Right. And so you have waves internally that are happening. You have to learn to kind of figure that out and what state you're in or how to, like, make some changes. But then also externally, what are the waves in front of you? Right. And I think by combining it, you get those little glimpses of flow state, which are like, holy shit moments. Right. I mean, it's funny because you can't even chase it. It so easily switches into the by me. And so that's the tension line you're walking, which is like, I want to be through me, but I have these. Yeah. How do I stay between those two? It's quite tough.

Speaker A: Or how do you expand the time you're in through me? It's how do you be aware that you're using by me versus through me. And how do you expand the through me more?

Speaker B: One of the most beautiful ways that I've heard about it is that the unknown is the piece that's the most common inside of you. And your job or the item to figure out is how to become friends and comfortable with the unknown, and then everything else will just get better. So it's like trust and glimpsing. Yeah. But it's hard, honestly, because I get a little lost even on the curriculum piece. So, I mean, I just wrote out. So what we could take people through is. So it's fellowship, I think is a prerequisite or friendship connection. Then there's awareness, which could go very deep. We could also try and engineer people having a feeling or reminding them, um, of those states of awareness. Right. So kind of like a chef going back to their country to remember exactly what a dish tastes like. So remember the best feeling, this thing you're aiming for. And then, um, there's some sort of reflective, transformative practice. An example is at my low points, I'm a big. I have low points every day around, like, three or four or most of the time. And I'm a big subscriber to the concept that if you change your state, your actual state. Right. You can change your mindset. And so I will go to the gym. But I also have certain podcasts on repeat. One of them is the Art of Accomplishment now. Right. And there is, like, a Tim Ferriss episode with John Baptiste, which I, like, love. And we didn't even get to it. Right. Like, we couldn't even get to the application piece. So I think there's also a application piece, but those are the four keys that I see. And I think the next thing for us is how do we figure out how to put that in a weekend or which topic? How do you structure the curriculum? But even more important is how do we tie that to the people that are coming. Right. Because different people will be in different states. And I don't know if you can hit all four. I just don't know. Right. And I think that's the thing for us to kind of keep playing with.

Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I think it's okay where people are different states, because even just talking through it as you're explaining it to people, that's helpful for you to, uh, remind people as well. Okay. So going through the rest of our weekend, after we kind of covered this curriculum, we just ended up just letting everyone do what, whatever they wanted. So it was more like a fun hangout where we just ended up going to Korean barbecue. We ended up going to a bar. Sunday, we had some coffee, and we kind of had, like, embodiment debrief where we talked about what we took away from it, the weekend and how we're gonna apply it to Our lives. And a lot of it also for me was just to understand what value they got out of it. Like, how I could improve it. Like, if I were to charge money for it, what would there mean to be. And it seemed like I think everyone really enjoyed at least the group and really enjoy spending time together, because I think everyone got a lot of energy out of it. Being able to just feed off of each other from an energy perspective and being able to be, like, having the depth of the conversation so early on, I think was really helpful. I think that everyone kind of were looking for more curriculum so we could definitely expand on. The curriculum. Also wasn't very strict in terms of the diet and the health of it. And so I feel like I can be more strict. Like we should be more strict so that people walk away from it only not being mentally, um, emotionally nourished, but also physically and spiritually. And so being more strict around those things as well, so that everyone kind of comes out of it in a state that is good, but on all ends.

Speaker B: Yeah. Playing that back, I think people definitely got connection. I don't know what to label it, like a life hack or. I just think people for each of their problems. So not the internal problems, but life problems. I'd say at least half got inspiration on something to update, whether they're business or some problem they're facing. And then awareness. Awareness of probably the key problem they're facing. And then to your point where I think we could expand is physically feeling great, maybe, uh, intellectually and emotionally. Right. Like, really dialing when they leave, how they feel, and then the how do they want to proceed afterwards. Right. Piece. I think those are the observations. And then within each of the first ones, you know, I'm sure we can refine those as well.

Speaker A: Yeah. And so just to give you a little bit of context, I was in this coaching thing with one of my clients yesterday, and I was just talking him through my process of how I create. And maybe just walking through that might be helpful. Is that, like, I notice when there's moments of inspiration for me. So let's say, for example, getting to this next retreat is kind of daunting and there's a lot of unknowns. Right. But I'll notice when I have a bout of inspiration, it's the opposite of renewable resources, like a consumable resource, which I know is finite. And so I need to basically use that resource as much as I can while I have it. So the inspiration is like, okay, I'm pumped right now about this past Weekend retreat. I just got a. Some testimonials. I'm feeling really good now. I gotta go do the thing that forced me to keep going. And so what I ended up doing, which I only had that maybe like three or four hours where I was feeling that, basically I started recruiting people. I posted it on Instagram, posted a bunch of like a pitch and uh, a testimonials on Instagram, and basically started texting people that I thought would be a good fit. And I ended up getting six people that to say yes. Now I'm not feeling that inspiration anymore. So I'm really glad I got the yes because now there's like a pressure for me to actually deliver something since they all said yes, right? And then so that's the next, like, motivation for me is like, okay, they all said yes. I don't have anything yet. I don't even have a date. I don't know when it's going to happen. I don't even know if the next thing is I'm going to be able to deliver it. But at least this is like, okay, they. They all said yes now, and I'm forced to do it. And so that's kind of how I create.

Speaker B: See, it's really funny because, like, the part that you just did in your moment of inspiration, I wouldn't enjoy doing. And I already have the curriculum. I just sent it to you. Like, I have the structure. You know, we just updated the goals. It's just not hard. So, yeah, I've had it. And I feel like this tipped it over, but I sent it to you. And so I think we can already start to refine. Like, and I think that's probably why we work well together. Like, this is the stuff that's easy for me, right? I've already sent it to you. And then it's just like, oh, all right, let's break down. I already put it in. Let's break down more on the awareness piece. Make sure people are walking away with awareness around their emotions, their beliefs, and their top problems, right? Versus I think we people got tastes of it, but I think that's one. And then aim. Um, so people have an ideal feeling at a certain point in each weekend, walking away with an ideal physical state, emotional state, and intellectual state. And then lastly, let's figure out, or at least test a thing for them to take away so that they have a place to practice steering daily in the future. And then a more memorable athletic or some sort of story event. Right? And I think we're already. That's already kind of there meaning like that's the retreat. And then uh, the last thing we were playing with was I think one other person with this specific type of curriculum that would be inspiring, I think to both of us. Like we were talking about a headshot, but there's a headshot person who actually coaches your internal state and shows you how your photo can change as you think in a different way. I think we've got it. So I think it's filling those pieces out together and then finding a date that works for everyone, which I think will be tough. And then um, we'll just get to learn and kind of continue. Which is kind of amazing actually when you think about it.

Speaker A: One thing we talked about too is like what does this look like? Or what is the purpose? And then as at the end of ah, the weekend we're just talking about like what it could be. I think one of the things that at least my vision or my end state of what it looks like is kind of like a Asian American and Asian American. Like you don't have to be specifically Asian American but like share similar commonalities of the Asian American experience or the Asian American like cultural things that we all experience, not feeling your feelings, the achievement oriented culture, et cetera, et cetera. And just find a lot of people that both are interested in the adding value for other people. And kind of like we talked about the Asian American Hampton plus an interest in the self discovery which is like an interest in the material that we're going through. And if we can basically just build a community around both of those things that would be like my ideal situation is like if we just build a huge community of people like that through these types of retreats and stuff like that.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm there. The pieces I would add to that are memorable hangs like great stories where you can fully be yourself and then a clubhouse. I want cool architectural clubhouses that people can come hang out at.

Speaker A: Yeah. So that's like the end state. But at least for now we're just trying to get our second retreat a little bit more ambitious. Not too much ambitious so that we still feel comfortable creating it. But yeah, that's the next step.

Speaker B: Yeah. And you know, I think one of the coolest things is almost everybody or everybody that went to the first retreat is in a similar state as what you and I just named but just for different projects in their life. And it was really cool to see and understand each person like helping them define their next step. Right. So it's actually really amazing to feel like the ability to stack bricks, and it's not, at least currently not done from a place of forcing yourself to do it. Right. Like, maybe that should really be the goal. Right. We were talking about that B, et cetera. It's just like the B state is writing that inspiration. Right. And staying writing inspiration, I think, is, like, what we should focus on.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: That's the pod.

Speaker A: Yeah. Um,

Speaker B: that's the podcast.