998: Tony Martignetti - The Illumination Framework: Discovering Your True Potential

Speaker A: M

Speaker B: welcome to the Self Employed Life where we discuss business strategies, personal development and daily habits that create sustainable success. I'm your host, Jeffrey Shaw. We go into business for ourselves to control our destiny, yet find ourselves in uncontrollable circumstances. I'm here to help. Hop on over to jeffryshaw.com to find out more about my speaking and check out my small business consulting and branding services, the Self Employed Life. This is business with a soul. I am thrilled to be concluding our series of conversations with members of my High Achievers group with Tony Martinetti. Coaching Tony for the past couple of years has been one of the most significant transformations I have ever witnessed. And I absolutely love where he's going and the message he has that will, I'm confident, will resonate for you and for so many. Honestly, the future lies in what Tony has to say. So listen up. Tony is a leadership advisor, hosts the Virtual Campfire podcast, is the author of Climbing the Right Mountain and Campfire Lessons for leaders. He's a two time TEDx speaker and he's been featured in many publications including Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, Forbes, Life Science Leader, CEO World and CEO Today. Welcome Tony.

Speaker A: Well, thank you so much. I'm so thrilled to be here, Jeff.

Speaker B: Awesome. Well, we always love to hang out together and you've been on the show before but you know, kind of representative of that. You have gone through a major transformation in your within yourself. We'll talk a little bit about that. But your messaging has changed. Like you've tapped into just this, this channel of clarity and I can remember the exact moment when you and I were on a call when it just like came through and I'm like, thank you. That's it, like go with that. Like, it's just so incredible. And what you're speaking of is this multidimensional way of living and the need for multi dimensional people. How we can live in a one dimensional world. So let's start with explaining that contrast and what, what that means. Multi dimensional people living in a one dimensional world. What exactly does that mean to you?

Speaker A: Yeah, and I'll just start with, you know, this element of how we started to identify that for myself, I mean this was the world that I was living in. You know, I felt uh, the stuck feeling of, you know, always showing up and feeling like there's gotta be more to the world that I was living in and is living in this one dimensional world and feeling like I was holding myself back. And so what it means to be multidimensional is, is to realize that we have all these other parts, these identities and these senses of, of who, that we're holding at the sidelines and feeling like they don't fit, they don't fit into the main part of who we, who we are and in the work and in the way we show up. So we just say, um, on these guardrails, I'm heading towards doing the work that I'm doing in the way I'm doing it, because that's what my professional Persona has told me I need to be. And then you realize that you're not feeling fully expressed, you're not feeling fulfilled. And because of that, you know, there is a sense that we need to bring those parts back in. People often think like this is about what we call the family systems. You know, this psychology has this, this internal family systems. It's kind of like that, but not the same. It really has to do with just bringing in elements of what we've done, how we've shown up, different identities. We played along the way, but you know, collecting those identities, bringing them into the room and allowing them to play in uh, how we express ourselves.

Speaker B: Yeah, I would even say, I think another term that gained popularity a few years ago is to be a multi potentialite. And I'd say this is different than that too. Right, there's connection, but this is different than that. It's not just about the multiple things you can do, which I've been an advocate for for my entire life because I've been fighting against the, the typical advice to niche my, my entire career. It's like that just, that was just stifling and from a business pers. So multipotentialite kind of became a popular term. But I, you know, where I think you're onto something different and what feels incredibly current is. Well, for one, I'll say this, I don't think. Let's talk about this for a moment. I don't think people realize how much of a one dimensional world they are living in. It's like living in the Matrix and not realizing it. And you know, we even sing it. And I'm certainly not going to get into politics, but that is the root of, of the strife in the US anyway, if not the world right now where there is, there's an attempt to force people into a one dimensional way of thinking. A one dimensional world. So what to you are some of the symptoms that you're living in a one dimensional world and you may not even realize it? I have my thoughts, but I'm kind of curious for you uh, what are some of the symptoms that you're living in a one dimensional world?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, first of all we're rewarded. Our reward systems are all designed to reward our specialization. You know, the fact that we know something really deeply is what we're rewarded for. So I think that there's a sense of, you know, when you're showing up and you're feeling like I am the go to person for just this one thing then, and you feel like, I wish I had the opportunity to express other things. You know, I'll use an example of, you know, my prior life. I was in finance. I was the analytical type that people always thought I would be that I was always thought to bring in the analytical perspective. But I felt like that wasn't me. That wasn't the only part that I wanted to express. I wanted to express my creativity through the arts, through, you know, using my perspective on design and other things that I had a lot of experience and a lot of perspective on. And so bringing that into the room was what I wanted to be able to do, but it wasn't what people thought of me for. And so I think they're um, bringing that perspective in is what we need to be able to look for. And you know, you're in that one dimensional world when you start to feel burnt out and feeling like you just kind of lost the, the, the desire or the kind of thrill for the work.

Speaker B: And I would say, I mean it's possible, I think, tell me if you agree or not, but I think it's possible you could find that you are a specialist of one thing, you are particularly really good in one thing, but the fact matter is it's all the other dimensions that add up to that specialty and. Right. So, and to me I think the, I think that because I've thought about this so much working with you and again, I'm such a fan of this, I think this is the future. I think this is uh, the future of solving big world problems and helping people get out of their own way, I think is to start realizing that you don't have to be stuck in a one dimensional world. To me, I think the telltale symptom that we live in one dimensional world, if you in any way deny it to me it's, look how compartmentalized we are told to believe and be in this world. Right? Everything's so freaking black and white. You're on this side or that side or you know, corporate. This is your role in the company and that's the only role but self employed business owners, we know compartmentally how, for how long has people been telling you that? Keep your personal life, it's business, you know, business is business, it's not personal. Separate your personal life from your business life. And I've been out there certainly since my book the Self Employed Life, saying that's not possible. We are whole people living holistic lives. And when you're self employed, there's even greater integration. So if anyone has any doubt that we are living in a, uh, there's an attempt to keep us all in this one dimensional role, keep us in our place, keep us in our boxes, just look how compartmentalized this freaking world is.

Speaker A: And when you think about it, there's an element of, you know, just hearing you describe this, this feeling of, you know, when we start to bring the different perspectives into the work that we specialize in, it actually expands our capacity to see things differently. So I'll give you an example. Just using one of my clients that, you know, I won't name names, but I worked with uh, a tech executive who used to be a dancer. And she told me, she's like, look, you know, I don't really dance anymore, but that's something that I, you know, did professionally for a period. I'm like, oh, that's so cool. What happens if you were to like, bring some of the perspective of what it means to be a dancer and just let that identity and uh, that part of you be, part be in the room. And there's a key part of this which I think is we haven't really talked about yet. And it's about integration. It's not about like just letting things, um, be, you know, I'll bring this hat in or I'll bring this in. It's about really letting them become fully integrated in the moment. When she started to bring uh, and integrate the dancer into her work, she started using metaphors and ways of seeing the word, uh, the world in a different way. And her confidence started to go up and her expressiveness was on fire. And so I think that's what I think is so powerful. And I'll use the word that I often say is illumination, which is when you find that spark inside of you in that, that sense of like, now I'm on, fully expressed. I'm illuminated from the inside out because I'm using all the parts of who I am.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I'm using it in capacity that I am maybe professionally paid for.

Speaker B: What's crazy is as a, as a marketer myself, this is Actually, what makes you the most marketable, you know, one of our fellow high achievers, Tom Roberts, a guest, uh, very recently on the show, you know, he's writing a book about flow. It's been done before, it's not a new conversation. But this is flow from a race car driver's perspective. Like, that's the integration of all of who he is. His, you know, he. And he's a 35 year dentist. And I've even been encouraging him. You know, he's done with that and he's kind of. But I'm like, there are elements of it that need to be brought into your whole picture, if nothing else, other than you had your own dental practice for 35 years, so you know how to do some stuff, you know, so even if it's not dentistry or maybe, uh, there aren't teeth metaphors, but the race car driving is an entire metaphor for what this man knows about flow. And yet I've also watched him as his coach struggle with stepping into his sense of authority about that. Because, you know, you're only supposed to be an expert on flow if you have a degree in it. I'm like, I, uh, don't know about other people, but I think most people are more curious to hear about the benefits and the pitfalls of being inflow or not in flow when you're driving 160 miles an hour and can crash into a wall. Like, that's because that's what entrepreneurship feels like. So I don't care what degree you. But that's that, that sense of integration and that you and I love that you use illumination as much as you do because literally that's what you see in others. And that's what I saw in you. Like it was like this moment of discovery about a mult, the possibility of a multi dimensional world. Like, you were absolutely illuminated from the inside. I mean, you knew you were on it is the way I like to describe it. On it, whatever it is, like, it was obvious you were on it. So for you, because I've seen this unfold in you. What has, what has shown up for you? I mean, here you were this leadership as I knew you. And I sometimes joke, like I met you, you're the blue blazer leadership coach guy that I've seen a million times over. Nothing personal and, you know, but that's who you were. But since then, like so much has shown up and I feel like I've been on constant road of discovery of Tony Martinent. Like you do that too. Like, so what are Some of the pieces that you have really unearthed and are embracing you now as the leader of Illumination. Great, um, title for you, by the way. Leader of illumination. What has shown up for you? What are the parts of you that the world may not have known before as a leadership coach?

Speaker A: Yeah, it's a great question. Before I answer that question, I just want to say Tom was such a great example of this element of integration coming together. So thank you for sharing that. And, uh, you know, I think it's wonderful to see that on display. But for me, I think about this and I say, you know, my journey and what kind of brought this out is this idea that, like, I was trying to be like everyone else in the work, and it was actually frustrating. Even though I was doing work that was really amazing. And, uh, even, you know, doing facilitation, writing books and all things were great, but there were parts of me that were still kind of like hiding in the background saying, like, um, dude, come, you know, come play. Come do the things that, you know that are inside of you that need to come out and be part of the work, because you are not like everyone else. Just like everyone else is not like everyone else either.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: As they always say, like, you know, don't try to be like everyone else because they're.

Speaker B: It's already been taken or something. Yeah.

Speaker A: Oscar Wilde is the, uh, is the person who said the quote, but we'll have to look that one up. But I think the idea is that I had to, like, let the parts of me that I was not expressing come in and play. And the things that I started to see show up is bringing art into the facilitation that I was working with and, you know, writing poetry again and just saying that I don't have to have that be on the sidelines. I started bringing poetry into the work, and I started to really see that the work, who I am is the work that I need to, uh, share with others. And other people started to see that and started to see, wow, I want more of that. I want to see that. I want to be part of this experience of what Tony is sharing. And that to me, it was almost reinforcing. It was like, do more of this. Like, keep on going and keep on moving down this path. Don't try to edit yourself. Express yourself foreign.

Speaker B: I'm very excited to announce that my latest book, Sell to the Rich, the Insider's Handbook to Selling Luxury, is now available everywhere you buy books, if you're currently serving the luxury market, aspire to, or want to stand out like a luxury brand and be exceptional in your field. This book is for you. Or as I like to say, this book is for those that want to elevate everything, including themselves. Because what you'll find out, one of the many inside secrets is that to sell to the rich, you have to rise to the level of those who expect more. And you can Sell to the Rich is available everywhere you buy books and@uh, selltotherichbook.com it's more than a business book. It's your call to greatness. I love it. M. Don't try to edit yourself. Self expression stuff. I love that. I mean literally, Tony, for me it was, as your coach, it was like watching the layers of an onion peel off. Like it was just crazy because I, I known you for, I knew you from a distance for a while. Then we started working together. You joined High Achievers a couple years ago. Initially, you know, more as a. The leadership, the Blue Blazer leadership coach. Which nothing wrong with, like I said. I mean I, I accepted that because like, okay, that's how he's presenting himself. But what started showing up as you started really stepping into your multidimensional role was. I mean, I had no idea you have art background.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Absolutely no idea. Your skill as a poet, I mean your poetry is astonishing. And, and I'm not just blowing air at that. Like literally some of the best I've ever read. I mean really impactful, beautifully written and real. You know, you're, you're speaking the words that so many of us feel. That's, that's been incredible. Tell us a little bit about your process. Like, and I know part of your process because I encourage part of that process. But for others, like how might they, what's the journey that they. Tell us a little bit about your personal journey and certainly Hero's Journey work you did. And tell us about a little bit of the coaching you received and the personal work you did to reconnect with these things.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean first of all there was a, ah, feeling of disconnect that had me feeling like, okay, I don't know what the next chapter is. Um, and I need to accept that, that I needed help. Um, and I needed to see, you know, and this is even after, you know, accepting the challenge of getting out of the corporate world, being out and doing the work with others and uh, being a coach and guide to others and then still feeling like there was work to be done.

Speaker B: And there's about six years there, right? I mean, six years, you Left corporate for about six years. You were doing the more typical leadership coach thing.

Speaker A: And you know, often you think the Hero's journey has been completed. But I came to realization that there was still work to be done. So I took a pause, a, uh, step back, and I said, where do I need to let go of some of these elements? I mean I did work with a Hero's journey coach, Paul Cuneo.

Speaker B: He's been on the show. I mean if you want to go back to past episodes, Paul Cuneo, it's actually, honestly it's our most popular episode over the past three years. My conversation with Paul, so.

Speaker A: Oh, and Paul is just, was fantastic. And one of the things that I really enjoyed with uh, working with Paul is he met me where I was and just allowed me to just explore what are the things that uh, were maybe holding me back. And you know, in that exploration, you know, we started to kind of let go of the, the parts of me that were trying to keep me safe, keep me safe from being the person who I really was meant to be. And as I started to, unlike you, the onion, uh, the layers starting coming back, coming off, I started to say like, oh, this is not what I'm meant to be doing. I don't need to belong to something else. I belong to myself. And what I need to do is get more connected to my full expression. And that's where I started to realize the work to be done is to get out and be the ambassador of my own, um, journey. And that's what I started doing and

Speaker B: unleash multitudes of people out of the one dimensional world. And I said, there is, it's a, you know, it's something in my work in the luxury market. I also, I often refer to there being a pull towards mediocrity. Right. It's something we face in the world. Like there's this pull towards mediocrity. Whether it's in the business world. Luxury brands really struggle against this, especially as they join conglomerates and they become part of a bigger picture. And there's an um, interest in big scale. Like there is a natural pull in the world and in business to, to pull people down to mediocrity. It is hard to stand out with conviction and say, no, I'm going to continue to be the best in my field to stand out like a Dior or Cartier. Like it takes real leadership strength to say, no, I'm not going to get pulled into mediocrity. And I feel like it's that same strength in the world. That wants us to believe we have to compartmentalize, that believes we have to stay in this one dimensional world, that we have to stay in our place. It's such a strong pull that we sometimes don't realize we're in the vacuum of it. M Until you do the work as you did, to look deeper, look at the merger of what was, what can be and realize, and to watch you absolutely come to clarity. And I want to talk about that for a moment because it's so easy. And again, if we get pulled up to the surface, up to the one dimensional world of thinking, people would say, oh, well, your business made a pivot, Right. Or you went, it's not a pivot. This is a depth of clarity that's so much more than a pivot.

Speaker A: Uh-huh.

Speaker B: And I want to talk about the challenges of that. Right. Because when you reach the level of clarity that you have now, the level of clarity about yourself, what you believe in, the message you have, and the clarity of who you can help, the impact you're going to have in the world, it shifts a lot of things. Right. I mean, so tell us a little bit about that. Uh, relationships around you shift, even practicalities. Like, I know right now you're completely redoing your website, like everything has to change. So talk to us a little bit about where you're at right now. Uh, kind of post clarity. What's shifted around you, what's working, what's not working. You're redoing your wardrobe. Like it's. These are the. Tell us about all these post clarity things.

Speaker A: Yeah. It comes back to this idea that I, that I've always played with but never, never quite understood is that, you know, your environment shapes you. And then at some point you realize that once you've changed your inside, you know, your inner world has changed. You need to start shaping your environment to support what the inside has, has become. You know, and it's not like I'm like changing the inside in a way that is like, not congruent with who I am. It's who I've always been.

Speaker B: Correct.

Speaker A: But what I've done is I've gotten the clarity about who that is. It's like those long questions, the questions we always, you know, forget to ask or to even answer is, who am I? And, you know, having that clarity of like, I, uh, am starting to understand who I am finally. And with that clarity, I now need to change some things about how I show up and who I'm in conversation with and what is my brand. Really representing. And so with that, I've definitely am, you know, in this process of, of re. Of changing all the elements of my platform to be in resonance with me. Now. There's some things that are going to stay the same because they just, they have, uh, there are parts of me that are really resonant. For example, you know, I started this podcast, the Virtual Campfire, which has just been such a, um, warm and inviting part of who I am. And it's just been a wonderful journey. And I think in many ways that has been cornerstone of who I am is having these conversations with people and seeing them share the parts of themselves that have been knighted through this process. So that is one thing for sure that I'm like, yeah, I want to.

Speaker B: And you've morphed that out. It's a connecting the dots. Because now you talk about illumination all the time, right? Well, campfires illuminate. They illuminate the darkness. And it's, and it's also campfire becomes where it's always been a part of your brand, your podcast, your first book, Campfire as an essence. And it is so true to who you are. You are such a sit around the campfire kind of guy. Like, you just got all the warmth and, and not that you're at all woodsy, that's the thing, but you're warm and you're a conversationalist and. But now what you're realizing, like connecting the dots is like, yeah, but campfires illuminate, so the messaging changes. The dots just get connected more clearly. Not everything. This is, I think what has, what shakes up a lot of relationships when people go through this kind of metamorphosis is that it's not about necessarily leaving things behind, but having the freedom to let it morph into its next iteration. And campfire has always been there and now it's just iterating to campfire. But the, the essence behind it is illumination. Because your work now is about illuminating the parts of people that allow them to be multi dimensional, to fight against the one dimensional world.

Speaker A: It's interesting you bring this up. And I was just reminded recently of these fire ceremonies that they have in India. I spent some time in India and um, they had these ceremonies called the puja ceremonies. That fire is a big part of it and the whole essence of it is really about transformation. Fire transforms, right? And whether, you know, in many ways in a bad way, but there's also a sense of, um, it can be cleansing and it can also bring sustenance in many ways. And so Fire is. You're never the same through fire. Right. And I think that's one of the things that I started to think about is this idea that, you know, the symbolism of fire is that we want to transform through sitting through the campfire. And that's what I'm trying to, um, get people to think about. How can I create that flashpoint moment or uh, at least to remind myself of the flashpoint moments that can shift me to the next place I need to go?

Speaker B: What has been, as often happens, uh, when we go through these again, more than a pivot, more than transformation, I, I keep coming back to. It's like this, it's clarity points. It's like this next iteration of self that just becomes so profoundly clear. And yet in that clarity, inner, you know, inner voices show up. The doubters, the, the, I often call them the soul's gatekeepers. What has been the loudest negative voice to you as you, you know, with 99% conviction, know you're moving forward in the right direction? What's that 1% voice that is annoying the hell out of you?

Speaker A: Oh, uh, goodness, that's a good question. You know, I think there's always going to be that, you know, the voice inside my head who's saying like, you know, retreat, retreat, retreat and go back. You know, there's been times when I've said, okay, maybe I should just get a real job. And you know, this, what I'm doing is, is just the fantasy of some sort. And I think a lot of people who work for themselves or are self employed or get into this world of doing something, creating something of their own making, they feel as though there's, there's someone who's going to wake them up or like knock on their door and say, hey, it's time to get real. Yeah, but that is what we need to sometimes realize is that this is real and this is happening. And you know, seven years later, I'm still doing this thing and it's going to take on different shapes and forms and sometimes we need to get more fuel for that journey. Yeah. And I think that's what, um, what I've realized is that along this path the fuel comes from, not from someone else per se. Sometimes we have people who are going to encourage us, give us a different perspective, but we're the ones who are going to save ourselves. We're the ones we're waiting for and we just need to give ourselves a new source of inspiration, a new way to see the world. And when we do, that's what takes us to that next path of saying, yeah, what we're doing is, is real, this is the dream and this is where we're headed. Um, we just need to kind of give ourselves that, that, that new way of seeing what we're up to.

Speaker B: And I would say honestly, and having been through various pivots, changes and, and big and small, my own life. And then that, that moment of clarity, which for me the moment of clarity was also the result of working with Paul. And uh, and it was shifting back into. Which, you know, in hindsight made perfect sense, me shifting back into the luxury space. And I course that makes sense. People have been telling me to do that since 2009 and I've been shutting it off and you know, but it was such a moment. But there's again, there's a difference between iterations, pivots, and what we're speaking of. When you just hit that thing, for me, the loudest inner critic voice that, that showed up both times and the most significant clarity points, and I'll even say the two significant coming out of the closet moments, for me, the voice that shows up is, what if this is just another change?

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: Because I mean. Oh, uh, and it's. And again, that's actually the voice of all the people, that one dimensional world trying to keep you in your place. What if it's just another chance, Tony? So much so that I don't know if you know this, if I've ever shared this with you before that. When I. When I came out, I don't know how many years ago now at this point, 15 years or so ago, when I came out of the closet, at that time, I guess it was longer than that because I was 44, I'm now 61. So do the 17 years. At 44 years old, coming out midlife, I was so confident that somebody would challenge my authenticity as a gay man, that somebody would say to me, are you sure this isn't just another fad? Are you sure this isn't just another change? I was so confident of that that before I told the world, came out to the world, I made a promise to myself. Whoever said that to me was out of my life.

Speaker A: Like, because I.

Speaker B: That was such a dangerous. I mean. And sure enough, a friend of mine that I had gotten incredibly closer to than anybody else in the three years, in fact, when I came out, people thought I was having an affair with him. Never did. Just. We had gotten so close. As a friend, he was the one of all people that said it. And he was out of my life for that. Because I made a commitment to m. Anybody that would say that to me is so dangerous.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I mean, to the point where he said to him, said, you really don't get what it means to come out of the closet then, do you? Because there's. I mean, this is not a small change, right? Yeah. You know, how could somebody think, are you sure this isn't just another. His exact words were, are you sure this isn't just a new fad? Like, yeah, being gay is not a fad. Coming out of the closet is not a fad. Like, that's the degree that somebody wants

Speaker A: to keep you in a box.

Speaker B: Right. So I think it's so important for anyone.

Speaker A: Listen.

Speaker B: That going through this, this depth of clarity, that you will be 99% committed to, that you're going in the right direction and that you have found your thing, and is that 1%, one dimensional voice that's going to taunt the heck out of you. And that's it. That was it for me. Is this just another change? Because in the back of your mind you're thinking, I'm going all in on this. Being the luxury guy. I'm going all in on reinventing myself as a speaker, rebranding myself, writing third book on the topic. I'm going all in. What if it's just another change? M. Uh, painful.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I know you've had similar experiences.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, just hearing you explain this, it's like, you know, we have to be willing to, to put in the, um, the effort to try things out and experiment, as we say. You know, experiments are worth it because. Because that's where we finally are able to get past that initial essence of like, okay, well, is this it? Is this the thing? Once, you know, you've landed, you've landed, that clarity starts to come in so strongly that it's like, wow, like I can hear the angels singing. You know, there's an element of just knowing that this is where it's going and know that even with that, there is going to be slight deviations, small, little, you know, tweaks along the way, but it's, you know, you're on the right path when you get there.

Speaker B: And it feels. I said that this, this. And I, uh, we have to come up with. I'll work on coming up with a name for it. Like this, this thing of clarity is, like I said, it's different than a change, different than a pivot, different than another iteration in your personal development or your career. You know, it, when you're in it, you just know that this is something different and you're going to fight for it harder and there's going to be that one element of Soul's gatekeeper that, that one voice from the one dimensional world taunting the heck out of you. But I think your work, this message of encouraging people to be their m. Multidimensional selves in a one dimensional world I think is so critically important. I think it's the only way we're going to solve the world's problems. Yeah. And Tony, I truly, I mean I look at the rate of suicide going up. The people that you never expect would take their own lives.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I have to believe a part of that is feeling trapped in a one dimensional world and not seeing any way out. There are many reasons for that level of lost in that level of depression. But I do think some of it is I feel trapped. It's why the rate of suicide amongst teenagers who have not yet come out or even if they do come out, why it's amongst the highest of all suicide rates because it's just, just you know, they're trapped. They feel like they're all of who they are is not being allowed to come out and that. But that relates to so many different people in all different stages of life. Your work is critical, Jeff.

Speaker A: I think. Thank you so much for recognizing. I think I want to add like two related points to this. I think there's one part of this is that people who have that lens of the world, of this idea where they have a um, multidimensional lens or mindset, it also gets them seeing new possibilities. There's more possibilities. They don't have that limited lens as we were kind of describing about the people that you're, you know, seeing like, oh, like is this just another fad? Well, they don't see it that way. They're like, oh yeah, this is interesting. Let's see where this goes and see what happens. Right. So there is a, um, very open mindedness that comes with people who have a multidimensional lens of the world.

Speaker B: World.

Speaker A: And the other part of this is that we need to make sure that the people who see this way find their people who are similar, not similar, but who have a uh, similar way of thinking.

Speaker B: Come together.

Speaker A: Come together. You know, I kind of think of it as the modern Medici effect, which is this idea of like in the Renaissance there was a lot of these really interesting people who had multi passions. You know, they just came together and they just continued to uh, up Level the thinking and we need more of that. We need to connect with other people who feel like the possibilities are endless. Let's continue to dabble.

Speaker B: I mean you think about people that are at that depth of depression that they would consider taking their life. Often you reckon, you know, they feel like there's no way out. While multi dimensional gives multiple ways out. It's that clear. It's like people need to feel that there isn't just one way of being, one way of existing. And if we can, can help people feel like there's a way out, there's a way out of whatever situation you're in, whatever emotions, that to me is the uh, how significant thinking in a multi dimensional way is. And like I said, I just want to see how we can solve the complex problems of today. And yet I uh, will also say the force of one dimension is stronger than ever. The force of which is why I think the multi dimensional concept that you're bringing up, why it's showing up is because I don't, I'm 61 years old. I don't ever recall a time where I've seen such a force of putting people in a singular way of thinking.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: In my life, like you're either this or you're that or you're, if you're out of the, if you're not this, you're, you know, you're get got rid of in one form of another. I mean it is so, everything is so singular right now. I don't think we've ever seen stronger forces pulling us into mediocrity, pulling us into the one dimensional world than ever. Which is why, why we need to, as you said, bring people together to think in a multi dimensional way. I want to tap into just real quick so people can figure out a little bit, what do I do with this? You have your illumination framework, the four step path for unearthing what matters most, which is discover, distill, design and deliver. So can you just, let's just go through them one at a time. Just give us a real quick synopsis just so people understand there's a framework. Yeah. And this is what's so beautiful about leaders like you or helping others with this, is that you went to the depths of personal work and now you've come out of it. And if you, if anybody's studied the Hero's journey, it's, it's referred to as an elixir. Right. So you've gone into, but now you have an elixir that you can, you can help Others with. So part of your elixir is the illumination framework that you've distilled it down as an elixir is like you've distilled it down to these four steps. So other people don't quite have to. Not everybody has to hire Paul. Maybe you should. But you know, know, because you've done it, you can now help others get to where you are, perhaps a little easier than the journey you may have taken. So tell us a little bit about Discover, Distill, design and deliver.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean the framework is really in a very, you know, high level. Discover is really about, you know, unearthing the elements of yourself that you have been putting on the sidelines. And it takes some time, like, uh, doing an inventory, going back and looking at what are some things that you needed to, to recognize about yourself.

Speaker B: The hobbies used to enjoy, the education, the degrees you have and things that you don't, you weren't using but could use now. Yeah.

Speaker A: Or maybe even parts of your story that you've, you've hidden back there. So. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think about sometimes, you know, the journey we've been on, you know, coming immigrating for another country and, and realizing that part of that immigration story is a powerful, uh, part of your identity. And I think it's not something to run away from, it's part, something you should integrate into how you show up and how you think and how you play. So discover part is really foundational, very important. Distill is now that you've got this kind of raw foundation, what you want to do is how do I, I bring the concreteness to that, how do I bring it into something that I can now create a, uh, way to express what I'm doing. Uh, now it doesn't mean you're going to go public with anything or, you know, go out and, um, share things with other people. Distilling is really about playing with it, experimenting with what you've got and, and seeing what you can make sense of what you've done.

Speaker B: What matters most in a lot, you know, so to go back to Tom, right? I mean, Tom's dent, Tom, the guy writing about flow as a race car driver. Dentistry is a piece of it, but it's not what matters most. It's the race car that drives most. So distilling, like distilling a fine wine, is putting it through a filter and deciding what really matters most. And I love that, uh, terminology.

Speaker A: And then design, design is, is really about really focusing down on, okay, how am I Creating the environment that's going to support the new me that is emerging, the new way that I want to express myself, and that also creating an environment of people who are going to support how I'm showing up. And, you know, that might mean that, you know, having new circles of friends or connecting with new people. Because as you start to express yourself differently, it's important to know that you, uh, have people who are going to support you on this next part of your journey. Doesn't mean you have to completely change everything, but it's about making micro steps to design the, the environment that's going to support who you're becoming.

Speaker B: Yeah. And then deliver.

Speaker A: And then deliver is really ensuring that you're going into every conversation, into every part of what you're doing, and putting what you've designed into action. You know, creating communities, creating paths to ensure that your full expression, your integrated self, is on display.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And it's, it's, it's, it's from, um, depth to pulling up in a way. Right? I mean, you're, you have to go deep in order, discover the parts of yourself that have been hidden, figure out what's most important to you, design what you want to do with that, what it will look like. And then you have to get practical. That's kind of the stage you're at now. Redoing the website, redoing your wardrobe. Like, what is the practical delivery of this message so you can actually help people.

Speaker A: And just one other thing I'll mention is that, you know, I, uh, just want to emphasize that it's not just a selfish endeavor. It's not like, oh, this is great. Look how great I am. It's. The benefit is not just for you, it's for others too. Because when you're shining your light, when you're illuminated, I don't want to sound

Speaker B: too

Speaker A: wacko out there and kind of hippie dippy, but when you're shining your light, when you're illuminated, the impact is on everyone around you. They all benefit.

Speaker B: I mean, I've openly admit, often that there was one line and one poem that changed my life. In 2009, I was in my coach training program and there were very first class. The teacher read Marianne Williamson's Our Deepest Fear poem. And there's one line of that poem that says, you're playing it. Small isn't serving the world. Yes. And it changed my life. I'm like. I had always identified as shy. I loved my cute little photography business. I only had to photograph 150. I mean, it was a very successful business. But the reality was I had to. I photographed 150 people a year. 80, at least 80 of those people were. People were repeat customers. So I wasn't stretching myself very far to have a big impact to the world. It was low volume. Volume, high ticket. And that line, right. And similarly, in our deepest fear, there's also a line in that poem that says you're granting yourself permission to shine. Grants other people permission. I mean, that's an adaptation online. That's what you're saying. And here's the crazy thing, Tony, and I'm so glad you brought this up, is that actually, as a coach, what I observe is the opposite. When someone has done this depth of work to get this clear, to have the message that they think is going to have the biggest impact of the world, the hardest stage for them. And you may be feeling this now, or here's a forewarning you will be, uh, is I'm ready to make the impact in other people's lives. And unfortunately, people don't show up for you to impact as quickly as you would like. And that's the most frustrating stage because you feel so ready to go so on message, so clear on this multidimensional need that you're ready to scream it from the mountaintops. Not because you want the spotlight, but because of the positive impact it's going to have on people. And I see this all the time as a coach because I'm the one helping my clients get to that level of clarity. And then once they do, I have to hold their hand and keep encouraging them. It's like just. You're not yelling into echo chamber. Just keep going. I promise you, at some point the world will hear you. But that's the. It becomes. It isn't driven by your ego. It becomes so. So part of your mission that you want the way you want to change the world. It gets frustrating. You can't get it out quick enough.

Speaker A: That really feels. I feel that viscerally. And, you know, it's. You know, we said earlier about the poetry and all that, and I'll just say, you know, this is where, um, I. I sometimes have to express myself through the poetry because there's, um. You can't really find an eloquent way besides poetry to really express those emotions. And so I wrote a poem called To Be of Love, which was really, you know, about this ide idea where sometimes we have to. We feel like we have to show up to add value for people. And value is interesting because you think, like, okay, um, you know, value. You get paid for value. But love, to be of love means that you're actually sharing what. What you have in your heart for other people to experience. And to be of love is so much more, um, powerful. And I'm not talking about romantic love, as we all know. There's, um, to be of love is to share what is you can. Your passion, your, you know, what is in your heart for other people to experience.

Speaker B: Yeah, 100%, actually. It was our mutual friend Paul, once again, that going. He witnessing me going to the stage of being so ready to be out there, be on more stages, speak to more audiences that I was showing up to, uh, our calls. What he described as, like. As if everything was urgent, like everything had to be done yesterday. And he gave me this mantra that resides on my wall, which is be pulled by love instead of pushed urgency. Because that was the only way I could slow my emotions down. Because I was just so eager to be, like, coming. I'm, um, not just coming out of the closet, but swinging out on a totem pole. Like, you know, it's like coming out hard and fast. And, you know, I was so wanting to, like, I was so in love with my clarity. I'm like, I can't wait to talk to everybody about what I know about luxury buyer behavior and mindset, because I've been in that world for 40 years and I couldn't wait to share. But he needed it, needed to slow down so I could manage how long it was going to take for the world to catch up with me. And that was his phrase. Just be pulled by love, not pushed by urgency. And it resides on my wall, reminds me every day. And you feel that. You can feel. That's why, you know, I shifted how I talk about audiences. My clients, people who listen to this podcast. Like, I refer to everybody in my world as my. My people. They're my people. And I do that because that, uh, my people resides in my heart, not my clients, not my audiences like that. That turns them into a thing. But my people I care about, I love. And that's. That's where that. That shift came for me.

Speaker A: So, uh, yeah, there's something about what you're. What you're tapping into. And I'll just. I want to share this because I think it's something that's been so important to me over the year, past year or so. Except especially, uh, is that, like, if you feel any sense of stuckness, if you feel any sense of, like, some things aren't Where I need to be. Uh, I always say, get in conversation. And I think there's something about that, which is, you know, the words that someone shares a little, you know, a simple phrase could open the door to something magical.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Could change your life. Right?

Speaker B: 100%. If anybody ever told me that one line from a poem would change my life in 2009, I would have. But I mean, so much so that I'm not kidding that that poem, that one line in Marianne Williamson's poem was read that afternoon. I contacted an organization in New York City called Performance of a Lifetime and hired a speaking coach. I had never been on a stage. I remember my. And I remember I also. I also hired a NLP expert who came to my apartment because I felt, uh, that I needed to do this NLP work to unwind from stage stage fright. So she's the first thing she said to me. She goes, well, you know, part of her work was, give me a story about where stage fright was a challenge for you. And I said, I've never been on stage. She goes, then how do you know you're afraid of it? And I'm like, good point. Like, I just assumed, because I identified as being shy and all these things, I just assumed that being on stage would scare the crap out of me. So I hired an expert, NLP expert to rid me of a stage fright that I didn't even know if I had had yet. But that's how quickly I moved from hearing the line in that poem to being like, oh, my God. Could it be that my shyness, my keeping my world small, my beautiful house fenced in in Connecticut, the fence represented more than I wanted to admit? And I was like, could it be that this is all just keeping me small, that I'm not serving the world? And it took one line from one poem to make the phone call. Calls to a speaking, uh, coach and an NLP expert to change my life? And here I am, all these years later, and there's my happiest place in the world is being on stage. So you're right. Get in conversations. One thing said by someone, one podcast you've listened to. Maybe this podcast might be the one thing that can change your life. So don't sit there quietly, is what you're saying. Get around a camp. Get around a campfire.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Have more campfire conversations. I always say that when I. When I autograph books, I'm always like, you know, have more campfire conversations. Because, you know, that's the gateway to really connecting more deeply with others.

Speaker B: And you have another way for people to connect. So tell us briefly about the Campfire Summit because this will be broadcasting before that. So what's that all about?

Speaker A: So the Campfire Summit is a three day virtual summit bringing together um, some amazing speakers who are not your typical type of speakers, but they're people who are illuminating the path to the future. And we're having some couple panel conversations but we're also doing some giving people a chance to share their view on where we're going from here. And so it's going to be magical. We're going to have some really cool sponsors who are going to share uh, what they're up to in the world as well. And, and then afterwards we're going to share a compendium book that we'll put out into the world.

Speaker B: So, so how could people attend that? And also just how can people in general find. And maybe it's connected. How can people find out more about your work and keep you so they can see that where you go with this message?

Speaker A: Yes. So first of all, I think the best place to start is to go to ipurposepartners.com and there is where I'll be posting more about the summit which uh, the page is not live yet. It will be very shortly. We'll keep you posted when that does go live. And right now we're just getting all ah, the back end in place. So we'll get that going soon and then I'll be posting a lot about it on LinkedIn. So please do follow me on LinkedIn. LinkedIn, uh, is where I'm very active sharing a lot of interesting information and I also do a lot of writing on Fast Company, so and check out some of my thoughts uh, that I share on Fast Company.

Speaker B: So before I leave you for a final time, what's one thing about you that says everything about you?

Speaker A: I am someone who really enjoys museums. And why is that something that's interesting about me? It's because I love being in places that in spites that in spite of incites awe that has us seeing that we are just part of something bigger than ourselves. And museums are great like that because it's like they're doorways into different worlds and it gets us thinking that, wow, this collection of things that was curated for us to experience is here for us to take in, including us as we're in this room, as we're experiencing uh, this experience. A museum is intentionally brought together for us to be in awe.

Speaker B: I love that. And it's so true. We should. Museums should be rated by gasps. Right? You know, the. The time, the moments that you step before an incredible piece of art and just gasp. Like, you know, like it just. It takes your. Not just your breath away, it just like it's that inhale. And I agree with you. That is the experience of a really good collection at a museum. And I love that. And I love that knowing that about you. Tony as a whole, always just a. A fantastic conversation. I love where you're going with this. And no matter what echo chambers it might feel like we're facing and you know, with all the changes you're making in your website, your wardrobe, it's. You're. You're so ready. Give it a little time. And this is precisely the message the world needs to hear. So thank you for being the. The Sherpa of that message.

Speaker A: Thank you so much, Jeff. This has been wonderful and always I appreciate. Appreciate you deeply.

Speaker B: Likewise. Likewise. Well, remember, you might be in business for yourself, but you are not in business by yourself. Be your best self, be proud and keep changing the world. Mhm. Sam,