Empowering Leaders Through the Culture Journey with Tony Martignetti

Speaker A: Welcome to the Culture Design show, where we feature conversations with leaders and thinkers who are passionate about culture and design. Now, let's get started with the show.

Speaker B: This podcast is brought to you by Culture Design Studio. This is where I help creative organizations transform their cultures from being controlling to being collaborative. Now, here are some of the things that I've learned. Your creative talent demands a co creative culture in order to produce their best work. But there's a problem. Now let's see if you can recognize some of these signs. There's no framework to move your culture forward. You have high turnover and low morale. There's increasing toxicity across all levels. There's team engagement and satisfaction that are on the decline. There's a misalignment between the employer brand and the employee experience. And there's poor communication about expectations and values. So if you want to learn more about how I provide facilitation and coaching for your creative team, reach out to me@culturedesignstudio.com Tony Martinetti is an executive and leadership coach with a specialty in working with leaders and their teams to navigate through change and unlock their true potential. He supports leaders in gaining clarity so that they can make well informed decisions, improve their leadership skills, and ultimately increase their impact. When he's not inspiring entrepreneurs to be their best selves, Tony can be found dropping knowledge and interviewing fellow visionaries on the Virtual Campfire podcast, uh, working on his forthcoming book, which will delve into inside out transformation for people who feel like something is missing in their lives and are asking themselves, shouldn't my life feel more fulfilling than this? I, uh, recognize that question. Tony, welcome to the Culture Design Show.

Speaker C: Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be here. Thanks, Steve.

Speaker B: There's so much about even what is described in your bio, uh, the topic for your forthcoming book, personal and professional change, has been such a big part of my journey. I, uh, think I shared with folks on the podcast that I think I've come to the realization about three or four years ago that that which I desire most for others, which is transformation, is also that which I desire most for myself. And so this particular topic of sort of the inside out transformation, uh, is a really important one and I think even more so when we talk about organizational change. So first, Tony, I'd love to hear from you if you can share with our audience a little bit about your professional journey.

Speaker C: Yeah, I'm happy to share that. It's been quite a journey. Um, I first started my professional career in the world of high tech and biotech on the finance and strategy side. And it's funny, I was an artistic child who was kind of, I guess, pushed into the world of being more of technical, uh, expert, if you will. I was a pre med major, then went into business. So I followed all these different paths from being the artistic child, having the artistic side, to being the more financially minded technical side. And I loved what I was doing in the sense that I loved making an impact on people's lives in biotech. But from the perch of working the numbers and thinking about how to drive the business forward from a financial perspective, what I found was something was missing in my life. And I kept on pushing myself just to keep on doing what I was doing, driving the path, kind of thinking this is what society or this is what people have told me I should want to. And I did, kept on pushing and you know, I had some great success, I made some great impact and I'm very proud of what I did in that world. But ultimately I felt like there was something missing and that's what led me down this path of creating something different for myself.

Speaker B: Yeah, I love that story. And that's the reason why I love asking about the professional personal journeys first and foremost, because I have found that with many of our guests, we have found that, ah, many times we, uh, can almost describe our lives as this grand experiment, this pursuit of self discovery. And everything that we do is a process of learning about ourselves, you know, and it starts all the way in school, uh, you know, whether or not we pursue the profession we studied in school. Much about school was self discovery, learning what attracted us, learning what interested us. And then throughout our professional lives, we also learn what we love, but we also learn what we don't love. And we probably in some cases go through life okay, saying, I tried that, that's not it, I tried this, I learned from it, but that's not it either. And so I love you sharing that part of your story about your life, of just sensing that there were some things missing. And I think many visionaries kind of pursue that, uh, you know, pursuing what is that one thing that I'm looking for. I do see glimpses of what that looks like. So right now you are an executive coach with inspired purpose coaching. Let me let our audience in on what led you specifically to coaching and how that has transpired and who you work with.

Speaker C: Yeah, I'd love to. I wanted to just kind of bring up one thing from what your prep, your, your, what you were saying earlier. Cause I want to respond to the fact that you Brought it into the school and how in, you know, in college, there's an element of self discovery. And I always ask people, what was your favorite class in college? And I always think about my favorite class as being anthropology because I m loved anthropology and I love organizational development. And I don't know why I didn't see those clues then. That was something up that I didn't love finance or the things that I actually did for a profession. But they were clues back then. And I often think of our lives are a research laboratory that we're constantly seeing that we should be trying new things and seeing where are there experiments we can do along that path. So I'll go back to your question. So sorry for the little diversion, but you made me think. What brought me to coaching was this element of, like, I had never been coached, um, until very, very near the end of my time in corporate. I had hired my own coach. And I said, I, there's something about coaching I'd want to explore because I feel unfulfilled. There was something that was missing. And so I started working with the coach. And almost immediately the light bulbs started going off. Like, there's something about this process that felt right for me. And I said, this is great, really cool. But still not sure what this meant for me, whether it was something I needed to do or how this was going to come into being. The moment that really kind of clicked was when I left the corporate world. I was sitting in a boardroom and I had this moment where I was seeing everyone checked out. There were some leaders in the room who were just, you know, kind of preserving their image of like, okay, I'm right, you're wrong, this is how it's going to be. They weren't being leaders. They were actually just leaders in title and not an actual acting leadership. And I felt this element of like, I can no longer do this. I can no longer collect a paycheck and just fake it, if you will. So I decided to leave the room, to change the room. Um, so that moment where I said, okay, now I'm leaving, I, uh, don't know what I'm going to do next, but I'm going to do something different. And I started to collect the pieces and I said, well, maybe this element of coaching that I saw that has been part of my life for the past, let's say, a few months, I was like, there's something about this that I need to explore. So I started experimenting with that and playing with that. And before you know it, I said, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to try this out. And that's really where it started. I started to play with that and even then I didn't know for sure how I'd do as a coach because oftentimes there's this imposter syndrome of like, who am I to be a coach?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: So I had to go on a journey and find out what inside what, what I was all about before I could actually be the coach that I wanted to be.

Speaker B: Yeah. Some of the coaching in the coaching training that I've undergone has uh, been very transformative for me because much of my career has been as a subject matter expert and uh, that's an advisor that's in a consultant capacity. If you're coming in from the outside, but the coaching has such a different perspective, you're not coming in with the answers. You're coming in with actually more questions, uh, to help guide along the individual. What was that like to make that transition from a subject matter expert to more of a professional question asker?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. It's so funny you say it like that because you have to really, um, train yourself into this world of being the professional question asker. But you have to also make sure that you respect your past as a coach, who I respect, who has always said you have to transcend and include your past. You include your past. You have to know and ah, understand the past that you're coming from and know that there's a huge foundation you're coming from. Um, don't disregard that. But you're taking that and you're transcending it and becoming something more. And the questions that you're asking are coming from a lens of, of who you have been, but who you can be and how you're helping that person to become who they can be too. So it's not just you're just showing up one day and you're like, plop down and you're saying, okay, let me coach you. It's about really including some of those elements of where you've been in the world where they've been in the world and helping them to see where they can go from that moment. And that's where the questions really come in, is helping them to see how to connect the dots between their past, their future and their present.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It is fascinating. When you shared with me, uh, your favorite classes in college. Anthropology is really about human culture. Right. The study of human culture, organization and development is about the organization itself. And so there's for Me the resonance, uh, with your work, at least your focus is then in your study. And, and the work that I do now is about culture and culture change and how do you become the better self, whether it's at an individual self or organization. I would imagine, as we're. The main topic for our conversation today is how to effectively navigate personal and professional change. I would imagine that as people reach out to you, they probably come in with a certain sense of the problem that they want to navigate. But then as you go through the deep work, you realize that there's actually some deeper things that they need to solve first before they solve the thing that they came in for. Has that been true for your work with your clients? And if so, how?

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. And I'm glad you bring that up, because this is also part of the courage it takes to be a coach and to be a person who takes a person on the journey is that you have to have the courage to, uh, challenge people to go deeper. My tagline, if you will, is inspiration through honest conversation. And that is because people don't often have the conversation with themselves or with others to go deeper beyond what they talk about on the surface. And when you start having those deeper conversations, people will explore things that they're not often seeing. And when they might say, like, hey, I'm having struggles to get my team engaged, or I'm, um, you know, I can't get my team to, to be where I want them to be, and I'll find out that maybe it's because they're not showing up fully, they're not being their authentic self in the workplace, or they're not communicating in the way that they really want to be communicating. And so getting them to see that if you slow down, you know, really understand yourself fully and bring your authentic person, the person you are as a leader, to the table, you'll find a difference. Shows up.

Speaker B: What are some of those challenges that folks generally reach out to you to help them navigate? You know, again, some of these are more of those surface things. And then, uh, I'd love to talk like, how those maybe surface related issues actually go to those that deeper work. Give me an example maybe of they came to me for this, but ultimately we worked on this.

Speaker C: Yeah, I've had people come to me and say that, like, um, you know, I don't have the confidence to be the CEO of an organization, you know, a biotech company or what have you. And, you know, I'm not sure if it's the right fit if I, if I'm really ready to take on this new challenge. And I will sit with them to unpack their emotions around that feeling that they have, like what's holding them back to be, to really step into the power of that role that they're taking on. Um, and I'll, you know, unwind it in the sense that, you know, why are they, uh, what in the past has really held them back? You know, where's this confidence, this, this element of, of not knowing that really, you know, is getting in the way. And once we start to kind of unwind it, they'll see that it's just taking one step, one step at a time and seeing that it's just not them alone navigating that journey. They can rely on other people to help them along that path. So there's been that. There's also an element of emotional, um, intelligence. Feeling as though they can't connect and understand the room, they can't read the room. So help people really develop that.

Speaker B: Yeah, that emotional intelligence. Yeah. I definitely have worked with some senior leaders, uh, even as my colleagues, when I worked at firms of folks who were very good in terms of their subject matter expertise, but were not necessarily as good as reading the room, reading people, uh, that emotional intelligence is something that could be improved on. So those are definitely some big things. One of the things I want to ask about, I know that when I realized for me that I wanted to help organizations transform themselves, uh, I remember a conversation that I had with my father in law and this was just before we started having kids. And those that have heard the podcast before may have heard me say this, but he said, steve, if I as a father wanted to see change in my children, I needed to change first. And so I immediately understood that that only applied to me as a parent, uh, as a spouse, but also as a leader. It's no secret that, uh, we're in a very fast moving, ever changing environment. Uh, even before COVID was launched upon us, you know, they talk about the VUCA world, A, ah, world that's volatile, uncertain, complex and ambiguous and that the best practices that we employed in the past may no longer suffice. And so we have to change the way we lead. Cultures are changing. Employees and customers have higher expectations than they ever had before. So it does require sort of a change of the guard, maybe not a change of the person, but a change in the way that we lead. How have you helped, uh, you know, these CEOs, these executives maybe come to an understanding that that is the case and how have you seen that? Some. What are like the, the questions that a CEO might need to ask themselves in terms of are they ready, any able to make that change?

Speaker C: Yeah. I want to start by maybe reflecting on this element of like. Because I love the way you put it, you know, around, you know, who, who do you need to be or how do you need to be to be that to create the right elements of the environment. It's really the environment that needs to be shaped.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: I think about this because um, when I think about your show, culture design is your environment shapes you. And if you don't have the right environment around you, then ultimately it's hard for you to come out of that in the right place, in the right way. So ultimately I think about a um, leader showing up in a way that allows them to shape the culture that they want. If they're going to be a uh, leader who has a command and control or a, you know, fast paced nature, uh, then they're going to get what they show up with. It's them leading by example and creating that, that container that really is a ripple of them. So it's no different than when you think about your childhood and you think about the children, your children, they're seeing what you create. If your environment is full of love and of really shaping them into somebody who sees love and beauty in the world, then that's what they're going to emulate.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: So I love that idea of creating more of what you want to see. Mhm. It's like be the change you want to see in the world. Why not? And to come back to the questions that you ask, how are you showing up today as a leader? How are you bringing your vision of what leadership looks like into your space? That's a question that you should start with. Mhm. Another question is how am I impacting the workplace? What am I owning in terms of um, that culture?

Speaker B: Yeah. Some very deep questions. Right. I know that when I've done some introspection of myself after some key seasons in my life, uh, I've asked a series of questions that sometimes adds or results in very affirming uh, responses but in other cases it results in uh, some gut wrenching realizations of areas that I need to focus on. I wonder if in some cases, you know, where you have the cult, the current economic, cultural, political environment that we're in that does require say us to shift in a new way of uh, of shaping our cultures. Uh, have you ever come to uh, or had a leader that has come up at the intersection of these questions, one, what choice will I take? Will I either one, continue in the way that I am status quo? Will I change the way I'm leadership to, to respond to the current environment, or am I still the right leader for this moment? Yeah, do I need to move on and hand the baton to someone else? Not so much in a self deprecating or even a demeaning way, but to say, you know what, maybe it is time for a new leader, for a new day. Have you had uh, a client that has been at that intersection of question?

Speaker C: Yeah. It's funny you even mentioned this because I just had this conversation earlier today about this topic. Not with a client, but with someone else. And I think it's such a powerful insight and takes so much courage to be at that place where you say, I am comfortable owning that it's time for me to move on or time for me to part ways with where I am in this company. Especially for founders, when it's your baby that, uh, you've created and it's your vision that you've created, when you can say, okay, now it's time for me to pass on the baton, it's really hard. But at the same time, when you can do that, it shows great courage that you can do that and know that it's time for you to do something else. Um, I have worked with people on that, um, and it's not easy to navigate, but the folks who have done that have seen that in the long run, it's the best thing for the company and for them because each one of us goes through. As Whitney Johnson, she talks about the S curve, um, of learning, at some point you get to this point where you're at the top of your curve, there's no more learning for you to have, there's no more growth. So you either have to disrupt yourself and figure out, what am I going to do differently to learn to grow or you're going to stay stagnant or you're going to start to decline. So ultimately the best thing you can do is to think, where am I on my growth curve? Am I at a place where I need to make a change?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. That growth curve conversation with uh, Whitney Johnson is definitely a pretty powerful thing at a very personal level. But it very much echoes, uh, the journey that an organization goes through. And I've seen, you know, like, if you think of the growth curve in relation to the life cycle of a company, you know, you start up, uh, you know, kind of relatively flat on That S curve, then you have the high growth, then you have maturity at the top and then you have uh, a mature company that goes into decline because they haven't navigated with the times and ultimately possibly death if there's not this reinvention. I know even Nancy Duarte, who I, uh, worked with, uh, as part of her team for a little bit. You know her? Yeah.

Speaker C: And her book, a huge fan.

Speaker B: You know her and Patty Sanchez, when they wrote Illuminate, it talks about that life cycle or the S curve of an organization going through change. What are some, some skills or competencies that a leader needs to have as they're leading an organization through change? Uh, because obviously that has to first come up at a personal level. But what are some things that you have seen that is required to lead change in an organization?

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean one of the first things is to make sure that they're not being too tied into their ego's, not too tied to the growth of the firm or the status quo. If you're too tied to the status quo, then what happens is it's hard for you to make the change. So it's bringing yourself into reality. And so that requires some stepping back and seeing, okay, where are we right now and am I okay with change? And that starts with the leader or starts with the person who's really leading that program or whatever it is that's going on. Um, going through change and embracing the fact that it might be time for something different. If they can't get buy in for themselves and internal buy in, then there's no way that they're going to be able to bring an organization through change. Because it starts from the top. As we said earlier, there's an element of creating, um, the ripple effect of the attitude. The culture of change has to come from that top. You can't bring change through the bottom unless you have some really strong, um, people who are willing to speak up and say what they feel.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And that's a pretty important topic too because, uh, you know, say, you know, there's a visionary, a burgeoning visionary that is, you know, in the, either on the front lines or in the middle ranks who sees potential. And to your point, it requires a really strong person who's willing to kind of kick against the scripture. There's a scripture that says to kick against the pricks. It's kind of like to kick against the saddle spur or the spurs that you have to do that. It's going to be painful if you do it. And I almost Feel like in some cases, those folks, uh, need to be so passionate about what they believe in that they are willing to lose their job to see their message come through. Have you. Have you worked with folks that are either in the middle or on the front lines, you know, kind of like that are growing up and realizing they've got two, three, four layers above them, and they're like, how do I navigate this? Have you experienced or talked to folks in that respect?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: So I'm glad you brought this up, because this is one of the things when I thought about the leap that I took initially to jump out and say that I've got to do something different about the way people are leading today, I thought of it from two different angles. I'm like, well, there is the person at the top, but there's also the people who are sitting at the conference table and they're checked out, and they may have an opinion. They have a feeling about what they want more of, but they're too afraid to speak up because maybe there's an element of not feeling safe, not feeling as though their voice will be heard, or if they say something, that they'll be, um, fired or ostracized or something will happen to them, that their fear is ruling their world right now. And so I want to. I would say that I'm working with a few people like that. I want to work with more people like that to empower them to have the voice to speak into the room, to be environments in an environment that allow them to do so. And so this is going to sound really crass, but I'm going to say it. If you're not in an environment that allows you to do so, then I start questioning whether you should be in an environment that you're, you know, that allows you to have a voice. And that's. I guess that's where I kind of feel a little bit like.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean. I mean, I'm watching, you know, movies, uh, watching TV shows where there are these leaders that are authoritarian, and, you know, basically we just see that it's bad leadership. And part of, you know, the. The. The cynic in me says, why does that person that is receiving the brunt of all of this abuse, why are they accepting that? Why. Why don't. Why don't they just say, you know, I'm not going to accept this. This is wrong, and either we need to change or I'm out? And I understand that that sounds so, uh, uh, you know, so cavalier and so maverick, and there's so Many things that come with a decision like that. I understand that because I've been there, honestly. So I know what comes in those situations. But, uh, I think there is fear. Fear of the repercussions. I remember. I'm going to bring this up. This is a movie that. It's Wonder Woman, the first one, the good movie. And I remember, uh, when Diana is faced with the prospect of mankind perishing, and she wants to go and save mankind. And her mother says, if you go, you may never return. But then Diana says, but if I don't go, then who am I? And what you said about leaving the room to change the room is such a powerful thing to me because, uh, it felt to me that that's what she was doing. She was leaving the safety of something in order to change it. I don't know what thoughts come up to you in that conversation.

Speaker C: Well, Steve, I just got to say, my gosh, that was mic drop moment for me, because I haven't made that connection yet. But that's why you're so good at what you do, because m. It makes a lot of sense. It makes me feel exactly like that. It was that moment where I was like, okay, I don't know what I can do, but I'm going to do whatever I can do because that's what I'm here for. If I don't do something about it, then I will feel as though I've left something on the table. There's this concept, and I'm going to. I'd like to play with language that is a little bit out there sometimes. But, like, I think Todd Henry, the author, wrote this book called Die Empty, which is beautiful. It's an amazing book. But the great thing about it is that he talks about how we should have this feeling that we're putting everything out there and that we die empty because we've put all of the things that are inside of us out into the world. And that was the moment when I felt like, my gosh, I want to die empty. I want to make sure that everything that I have in the tank is put out there. There's this thought that, like, the cemetery is the most expensive real estate in the world because there's so many people who die with their dreams inside of them. And that's unfortunate.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's unfortunate. And, uh, as you were talking about, that that cemetery metaphor would definitely came to mind because I have a friend who says that his goal is to make sure that, uh, they get those ideas out while they're living as Opposed to, you know, when they, you know, to leave them buried in the graveyard. This is, this has been awesome. I know that you are in the midst of writing the book. I don't know if you can share a little bit about what you're researching, uh, for that book and what people can look forward to as you're finishing that up.

Speaker C: Well, thank you so much, Steve. The book has been quite, uh, a journey. I'm self publishing and doing all on my own. So it's been, it's been a longer process than I'd like to say. But it's called, uh, climbing the Right Mountain. And it's really a story about people getting to the top of the mountain and realizing that it wasn't quite the place they wanted to be. And I'm helping them to see different way to climb, so a different way to find fulfillment along their journey. And that's what I'm hoping to share with the world.

Speaker B: Yeah, I love it because one of the things that I've realized about myself again as you and I shared, uh, I love having this podcast because I learn so much myself and it gives me maybe in some cases new language and new discoveries even about myself. So, uh, not to say that this is a selfish endeavor, but I do benefit personally. But one of the things that I've realized about myself is that I love climbing mountains. I love climbing mountains, but I don't spend a lot of time at the mountain peaks by design. Like for me, the goal is not to reside at the peak. For me, it's to find another mountain to climb. And so to your question of like, so there's a little bit of self discovery that's going on in my head and heart right now is like, is it because I don't find what I'm looking for at the mountain peaks that causes me to just find another mountain peak to climb? Or is it that I love the journey, or is it that I love the transformation that I experience in the journey? And even seeing a, uh, valley as the place between two mountain peaks as a matter of perspective, those are all the questions that are going on in my head, uh, about your topic. And so, yeah, I look forward to reading the book when you're finished. So finish soon.

Speaker C: Yes, you'll get one in the copy, in the mail. And uh, I think that you hit it right on the head when it comes down to it. It's like this element of like, you know, you're. When people get to the top and they, you know, it's not about being happy when you get there, it's not about the end. It's really about having that real, the journey, being part of the, um, reward the transformation of who you're becoming. And I think that's not giving away the book. There's a lot more to it than that. But I think that's really at the crux of it. And I think there's an element of really embracing that mindset that can really change the way that you navigate.

Speaker B: Well, thanks, Tony. Thanks for being on the show. If, uh, people want to reach out to you and learn more about your work and all that you do, where can people find you?

Speaker C: Um, they can find me@inspiredpurposecoach.com and they can also find me on all the social media channels like LinkedIn and what have you. So, yeah, I'm happy to have a chat.

Speaker B: Well, thank you very much. I will make sure that people get all of those links in the show notes and we'll be talking soon. Thank you very much.

Speaker C: Thank you.

Speaker A: Thank you for listening to the Culture Design Show. We'll see you again next time. Be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes. And while you're at it, feel free to leave a review of the podcast.

Speaker C: Sam. Mhm.

Speaker B: This podcast is a part of the C Suite Radio Network. For more top business podcasts, visit C suiteradio.

Speaker A: Com.