AI, Parenthood, and Authentic Business

it's evolving quickly . I have like a don't trust tech bros mentality . I'm from New York , I'm really skeptical about a lot of things , but like they're in a bubble and they're like this , we are changing the world , right , like some of those people talk , like like they are Steve Jobs , yeah , and we need to remember that we have evolved over thousands of years and the thing that accelerated our evolution was togetherness and community and like properly communicating , because that's how we innovated and that's still deeply embedded in us for better or worse .

We seek companionship . We go to these conferences for in-person interactions , but then we're also very tribal . That person looks different from me and I hate them , yeah , but like the , it's so deeply seated in us that the tech bros , who think everything will be replaced by ai , are completely forgetting that we crave human interaction start recording , so I don't forget to do my leader yes , that's the moon so I will say it's unfortunate that the all black studio um has all of my wispies showing oh I'm like , oh , I'm trying to brush them down from the bottom .

Oh my gosh , this is so oh my gosh , hi joe , how are you ? I'm well , how are you ? oh , we're just gonna dive right into it , because this is who we are this is how we roll this is how we roll um . You've been on the show before anyway , yeah , and I want to know what are you up to ?

uh , yeah , so gosh , the last time we spoke , I was really focusing on podcasters . Um , now , uh , you know if you release the video for these things , yes , okay , so people see , we're recording it in Kit Studios . Welcome to the . Market Kit Studios .

Tell them who's studio you have . This is Nathan Berry's personal studio he opened up for Craft and Commerce . So this is like I feel like this is in the sound like I'm like being sarcastic , but I feel like it's in the show . Yes , that's what I .

This is the show that will help you in your time saving shortcut , so let's get right to it . Just this morning , like hours ago , like where you're sitting . Right , I was there . Nathan was right here .

It's like , oh , how fun is this ? Yeah , awesome . So I assume we decided to record this , like same day . Yes , we have no idea what we're doing .

And it's fine . Yeah , it's good because we're both professionals . Yes , we have no idea what we're doing . And it's fine .

Yeah , it's good because we're both professionals . Yes , my audience knows they're just like oh , whatever . So I learned perhaps something you also learned when you first started targeting podcasters , which is just using the word podcaster is not the best move , because my friend Becky said I have a podcast and I don't call myself a podcaster , I call myself a business owner , and I'm like right , right , call myself a podcaster , I call myself a business owner , and I'm like right , right , uh .

So since we last spoke , I've really moved into the solopreneur space . Specifically , I help uh busy solopreneur parents uh spend less time checking their email at the playground , um , and I do that by implementing business systems , the same sort of things . I help podcasters . I've just kind of expanded to other things that people are struggling with .

Yeah , yeah , I mean just just so you know , Joe like nailed it because we were like challenged to really craft how we introduce what we're doing , and so like I'm just going to do a fantastic job , but I love we were actually chatting about this because , again , we go way back . Joe and I are like chatting in between sessions and everything and you were talking about how you felt like you had it nailed who you were targeting , until someone was like oh , that playground piece .

Yes , that piece . So tell the story behind that . I've gotten like kind of mixed feedback on this is should I make parents part of my icp ? And a bunch of people said no , because , like , you're eliminating people who have said that they want your help , but aren't parents , um , and I determined , yes , parents , because when I talk about , uh , parent business owners specifically , it's like they're like there's no business advice for parent business owners specifically .

It's like there's no business advice for parent business owners . And so I want to . I can speak passionately about that . Wes KO says spiky point of view , that's my spiky point of view .

And so I was talking to Austin Church and I was like I help solopreneurs , you know , build systems to save time . Or I , you know , and we're workshopping that , and he's like you know , everybody says save time , right , um , he says you help parents , and then he said you help parents not be on their phone while they're at the playground and I really love that . I switched it to email , um , because that's like a more , I think that's a more concrete thing , right , um , because I think , like some people might be like , well , facebook isn't right , but like email is a very concrete like , oh , I got to check my emails .

I'm going to panic now , so yeah . So I feel really good about that and I've gotten really positive feedback about that . Shout out Austin Church . He mentioned the playground thing , like that's what I love about this event , because I feel like you get connected to all these incredible people right that you can ask them those questions where , like I think about rebranding , whereas if you were to ask other people in your life , your friends or your family that maybe they're not entrepreneurs .

They're not entrepreneurs , they don't have this . You ask them their opinion and to a certain point you're like that's great , great , but I don't know that you're paying . She's like I love you and thank you so much . But also I don't know that you understand the pieces of it .

So even someone that's like in a traditional marketing role if they were to give creators advice I don't really know you can fully trust it because it's not the same absolutely I mean . So I I mean I always bring things back to sports and the Yanke great right . When I am . I say I rubber duck .

I do rubber ducking with AI and for those of you who don't know what rubber ducking means , it's apparently it's a longtime programming term and I didn't know that it didn't exist outside of the programming niche . And so it is the idea that , like a programmer would keep a rubber duck on their desk and talk through problems with it , um , and so that's what's called rubber ducking , and , like we've all experienced this , right , like , hey , I have this problem , and then you start talking through it and you get the solution before , like , the person you're talking to ever has a chance to respond .

And so I do a lot of that with a . I have thinking about doing this . What are the things I'm not thinking about , right ? Uh , you know , using your vast amount of knowledge and pattern recognition , what are the things I should be looking out for ?

But I always have this , like I include this in all of my projects act like a coach . Don't just agree with me . Push back on what I'm saying . Do this three to five times , because if you don't say that , it's going to just keeps pushing back on what I'm saying .

Do this three to five times , cause if you don't say that , it's going to just keeps pushing back on you endlessly . You never get anywhere . So , um , and that's been really helpful , Cause then it's not just like , yeah , good job . It's like it always says , push back colon , and then the pushback .

I'm like this is very robot . Yeah , but still it's super helpful . Yeah , I mean it forces you . I think that like that part is no different than like using a pre-made worksheet or like what's that 10-year exercise that's been cropping up a lot lately .

It's like picture it was on the tim ferr show and then jay klaus wrote about it , and then somebody else mentioned it this week too . Okay , um , where it's like uh , picture this date 10 years from now . Write down all of the details from the moment you wake up , from the moment you go to bed , and that is a very powerful thing for a lot of people . I started doing it and I'm like okay , it is June 2020 , 2035 .

All of my kids are teenagers . My daughter's about to graduate high school . This is stupid , but it's so good because , like you said so , this goes back to the parenting piece , which I think is so important . For anyone that's listening or watching that is a parent .

I think that it's crucially important to find creators that have lives that are similar to what you have or similar to what you want , and I've never really actually talked about this . I'm so glad you brought this up . You're the perfect person to chat about this , awesome . But I've had struggles with following , like Amy Porterfield and Marie Forleo's of the world , because , while they are stepmothers and how they are and you know , maybe it's not the traditional way of being a mother per se or being a parent , for me personally , it's just been very different in how I run my business .

It's like I have three kids at home . So , they have just very different experiences , even if they have you know sort of a parenting lifestyle that's different than mine , and so I like to find creators that have a whole slew of kids . Both of us have three kids Right , so we can talk the same language , and they're still small , like Marie and Amy . They're older than I am .

So , even if they had kids at home at one time . Now they're off . Now they're in college , where you and I we were just talking yesterday about being in the trenches with kids , right in the thick of it . yeah , I mean , and yeah , and that's that is super important because , like , I obviously can't speak to the experience of a step parent , so I'm not going to do that , but , like , as far as like just generic business advice , right , like Hormozy or like Tim Ferriss James , I don't think they have kids .

Tim Ferriss certainly talks like he doesn't have kids . You know , nobody can meditate for two hours every morning . Yes . Right .

It's just like you live a very different life and that's where the lack of you know I feel like maybe parents are just like too in it to like come up for breath and give the advice they need right . The thing I think that stuck with me the most was Marie Kondo . After she had her kid , they asked if she's still doing the Katamari method and she's like no , I have kids now . And that's like so refreshing because , like I feel like a lot of parents probably read that and were like how could I possibly do this ?

my kids just acquire things yeah so , yeah , I think it's , it's really important and it's like you're a little , like your kids are a little older than mine , yeah , um , and so it's nice to like see like who's ahead , who's with me . Yeah , and then I love helping people who are coming up Right , like our friend , jay just had a kid . Yes . And so you know , it's really interesting to see how he's shifting his business and adjusting , Because he , I think , the like the values right .

We both want to be present parents . Right . There are people who don't want to be and like those people are not . I'm not for those people , yeah , and they're not for me .

Yeah , yeah , and I think it just it goes back to you know , going back to your pivot right , your pivot in your business , and what you're adopting and changing to . I think that the through line of it is still systems . Yeah . So it's just an evolution of the systems that you teach or the way that you approach systems .

So just in knowing that , because you've been on the show before , right . We talked about automations and I hadn't heard of Make before you came on . You went through this full detail of like , okay , you can do this , and then you could feed this , and then all these files happen in the back end , and then you can go to . VA do this and I thought that was so awesome .

But for this conversation today , I was really just thinking about where do you see , as we like , cast perfect with the 10 year plan , right as ? You cast out to the future , like where do you see content creation going and evolving in a way that you can get on board with or that still has you excited about it ? Yeah , this is a great question and I , you know , nobody can see that actual cloud over our head , but the letters A and I are written on it and about a year ago I tweeted or posted on LinkedIn or whatever you know my social media .

People who say that they used AI to write their book are like people who say I used my car to run a marathon . Yeah , like , yes , technically you did the thing , but how much of the thing did you really do ? And I think some people took it like oh , so you can't even use it for research , and I'm like no , no , I'm talking to the people who told ai to write chapters , and I had a debate with my friend , alistair mcdermott , who , uh , is a ai expert and , according to his linkedin bio and I mean , he thinks about it a lot .

That's like a little shade , because there are people who are like december 1st , right , right , 2022 , ai expert . But we had a debate because he was like what if I give ChatGPT everything I've ever written , I dictate a bunch of prompts and I guide it towards the book , like when you can't , I can say I wrote that . And I said ChatGPT only knows what you wrote . Chatgpt doesn't know your lived experience that you didn't write about .

It doesn't know what happened to you today , doesn't know what's going to happen to you tomorrow that could shift your point of view , and so , for me , the most important thing and this is , if you listen to a lot of creators that are like us , this is not the first time you're hearing it I'm this is not like I'm not going to drop some giant knowledge on you , but it needs to feel human . Yeah , there needs to be some sort of empathy factor . Um , and I think , as long as that stays sure , use AI to learn how to code .

Like I have a master's in software engineering and I've been vibe coding a lot , yeah , so explain to me what this is , because I've been hearing this a lot and I think you're a lot more technical for the audience . Wait , hang on . I want to go back to your rubber ducking when you said that you know what I thought of . What Jeeps ?

No , I thought that's a good one to ask when brother has a jeep and I was like , why do you have ? I thought about the carnival games . Oh , you said , oh , so you just have a budget . But you just picked up .

This is my idea for the day yeah , that's so funny . That's a good idea , right like , what should I work on today ? um , yeah , five coding yeah so . So vibe coding is essentially explaining the project that you want coded .

Okay , and then having some AI , chat , gpt cloud cursor lovable , repel it , whatever . Actually write the code for you . Okay . And so I've been experimenting with this a lot .

The reason I'm like kind of into it right now is because I had a client project . I don't do a lot of websites anymore , but I will do them for non-profits , and , uh , so this non-profit is one that's like close to our family . It's called tail beyond cancer my , my father-in-law sales for them . My mother-in-law died of cancer a few years ago .

So , um , I did some pro bono work for them , but they wanted this like big project and they had budget for it , and so I wanted to charge them a reasonable rate and I realized I grossly underscoped this project . I was like , oh , wordpress , clickety , click , a few things , great , right , um , but like there were a bunch of assumptions I made that didn't pan out . Part of it is that I did rely on AI for the requirements and I'm like that sounds right . And so there was a point where I was like , well , I'm either going to have to do a bunch of pro bono coding or go back to the nonprofit and say , hey , this is going to cost like double what I quoted you .

Yeah . And I had all the requirements right , because I fed that all into ChatGPT and I'm asking questions and then at one point it's like , do you want to code up a prototype for you ? And I was like , oh yeah . Let's see what happens .

It wrote 2000 lines of nearly flawless code . Wow . It was really impressive , and part of it was I was a WordPress developer for 20 years . I knew exactly what to tell it to get the results I wanted , and I reviewed the code .

This is like you shouldn't just let a machine generate code that you're going to run somewhere right . So I reviewed the code and I tested it and I was really impressed by that . So I've been doing more of it lately and I think , if you know how to code , this is a good way to save a ton of time . If you don't know how to code , it's a good way to prototype or articulate what you otherwise would struggle with with words , and so I think that's a really good use case for AI for me .

Yeah , oh my gosh . I feel like we would go down a hole that my audience would never recover from , because I do love all the technical pieces , but I also love how you explain things in a way where it's like , okay , let's take this complicated thing and let's break it down because it shouldn't be so scary , right ? And I feel like you know , the more we get into adopting AI in our everyday lives I mean y'all , we just watched a presentation today on what is it ? the creative brain or phoning yourself Like the Delphi .

I mean , oh my gosh , we'll fill you in on all the updates . What do you think about that ? How do you feel about it ? I struggle with that .

So they did a demo last night I don't know if you saw it after this time and the example he used was Nathan Berry and I thought that felt weird because Nathan was there , there he was sitting in the room right , so like it's like , you know , the examples he used was , like you know , I forget the famous author he mentioned , but let's say , you know , like one of my favorite characters from history is benjamin franklin . Right , and in his , in his autobiography he stopped writing it before he got to the the kite and key experiment .

And so he's like , yeah , so if I , you know , if I wanted to , I could upload , uh , benjamin franklin's brain and ask him about that . And I'm like , but you're not really asking him about that . Yeah , um , and so like I think there will be a point where , yes , like tiago forte talks about building a second brain , like ai , if you give it enough information , can be your second brain . Heavy emphasis on second I don't think they emphasize the second .

Yeah , yeah , right , it's like , oh , I'll put everything and now you've cloned yourself and I'm like I didn't . You know what this ai doesn't feel that time I got pantsed in grammar school , right , like , or like the time I said something super embarrassing in front of my future in-laws , right . But as far as , like , uploading the knowledge I choose to upload , I think , yeah , we're like barreling towards that very soon . Yeah , and I think it's super interesting .

And I don't know about you , but for me , I have a lot of skeptics in my life about AI . And I feel like that is actually really helpful because I am like , oh , I love chat , gpt and I love , you know , I'm using all these different tools that have AI integration . So , like I've interviewed Laura Sprakel earlier , we were talking about the like we drank the Kool-Aid right AI . And we're like , oh , we're bought in , but I love that .

Like my parents are like absolutely not . Like I want nothing to do with this . It's very overwhelming , it's confusing , like I don't understand why people are doing this , and so I think it's really healthy to have that pushback in whether it's a business partner , it's a friend or someone just kind of keeping you in check . And whether it's a business partner , it's a friend or someone just kind of keeping you in check .

Like are you outsourcing everything in your business to AI ? Because then that's no longer you , it's not your stories , it's not your . You know that time that you really fell down the stairs and embarrassed yourself . I've done that a few times and so , yeah , I just think it's really interesting , it's interesting as a concept , and I think it's really interesting .

It's interesting as a concept and I think it's in its early stages , it's such in its infancy , of how this is going to be . I bet by this time next year . Oh yeah , I mean , who knows , who knows ? I scoped a course for LinkedIn Learning in December .

That was like using AI to help with code . I'm recording it soon as we have this conversation Vibe coding that term didn't exist when I scoped the course . Wow . But now I'm like , oh , this is a vibe coding course , right , but like that term didn't exist in December , like six months ago , right .

So like it's evolving quickly . I have like a don't trust tech bros mentality . I have like a don't-trust-tech-bros mentality . I'm from New York .

I'm really skeptical about a lot of things , but like they're in a bubble and they're like we are changing the world , right . Like some of those people talk like they are Steve Jobs , yeah , and we need to remember that we have evolved over thousands of years and the thing that accelerated our evolution was togetherness and community and like properly communicating , because that's how we innovated and that's still deeply embedded in us , For better or worse . We seek companionship .

We go to these conferences for in-person interactions with them . We're also very tribal . That person looks different for me and I hate them , yeah , but like the , it's so deeply seated in us , yeah , that the tech bros , who think everything will be replaced by ai , are completely forgetting that we crave human interaction . It's such a good point and I think that why I'm not on the tech bro vibe either is because I'm like , oh , because y'all are making all the money off of the people that are buying the courses from the AI experts that are out there and I'm like I see you .

It's like the MLMs that were rampant years ago that it's like I always had . It's this spidey sense that you just feel in the air like it's . It's like the , the mlms that were rampant , you know years ago that it's like I always had . It's this spidey sense that you just feel in the air like if it's off if it sounds too good to be true , it is hard right .

I just learned that the amazon go uh places where there's the stores , yeah , the stores where you walk in and shop and it's like all automatic , it's extra . There are people in india watching you shop and making your cart . I'm like this is the crazy , that's so crazy , yeah , and like it's just like , it happens like that . I'm like these people are selling a future that could exist could , if only they had say over it right but we all have say over it and we're still people and I mean , look at the pandemic like it's not , like we all lived in our house for two years and then we're like , wow , this was , this was great .

I never want to see any people again . I'm sure some did , but , like most people were so excited to , yes , get back into the world and see and interact with other people . Yeah , yeah , oh my gosh . We could chat about this forever and actually I do want to come like I want to bring all this home to one point , bringing it back to being a parent and looking at like they're exploring , coding and doing things with AI and my husband and I we've said this so many times to our kids Like it's not this , hey , you can just go to school and you can be this one day .

We , as parents , like I , have no idea what this world is going to look like . Right . In five years , Like actually I have a when we're recording this , my son , I was crying to Joe . I was like oh , my gosh I have a junior in high school .

Now , in two years , he's either going to be on the job market or trying to go to school and get an education , and we just don't know what that looks like . But I love that Nathan brought that part of himself into his talk and this is what we were talking about earlier . It's like just bringing that piece of being a parent , being an entrepreneur , whatever those pieces that you have like showing up that way , and I think that you do such a good job . So I just want to congratulate you and say thank you so much for showing up as your authentic self , because I think that you really helped a lot of people today .

Thank you , I appreciate it . Somebody asked me about this , so like , so do you like , is this , like , are you ? It was mostly because my New York accent comes out sometimes I'm like , are you just playing a part ? Like , and I'm like that's too much effort like to keep track of that like absolutely I have so many opinions , you think I could like keep track of faith opinions no way I don't , I don't have it in me yeah yeah , I just I can't , I can't not share , and I love that Nathan does that too , like it's .

You know , he , I think he's like very vulnerable at these events and he really speaks openly and that's , I think , what ingrates you . It's a lot of people to both him and Kit . Yeah . Right , like there , you know , kit has like any software development company like has its problems , yeah , and it's like little UI weirdness , but it's a , it's a great company and I can't see myself leaving it anytime soon .

Yeah , yeah , yeah , I mean stay tuned for 2026 . We'll be back . Who knows what studio we'll be in , I know . But we wrap up all of these .

I'm looking at our times . We don't get so much time in Nathan's studio , right ? Because ? It is really special , so nice .

And I didn't give you a chance to prep for this , so I know you're going to have different answers than last time , but we have some rapid fire questions that I think you forgot I forgot . So , which is good , break that into them totally differently . Well , maybe I'll answer them the same . We'll see .

The same . Yeah , I'll have to go back right after this . Yes , yes , yes . But the first one is what piece of advice would you give to a brand new creator Gosh .

I think it goes back to be your authentic self . Do what works best for you , right ? A lot of us fall into the trap of this person is doing . You know , we've seen some talks .

They're like all you got to do is clickety , click and you've got a hundred thousand followers . Show up authentically and you will attract the people uh , that people that will resonate with you the most . I think this is where my newsletter hasn't grown , because I've tried to copy instead of be me , and so , I think , be yourself . It's the best thing that you can do for the long term .

Yeah , that's great advice , okay . The next one , it's a two-part question , okay , and it's what is the dream podcast you would love to be on and who is your dream guest that you would love to interview ? oh boy , uh . Well , it's completely unrelated to my niche , but I would love to go on the lonely island seth meyers podcast because it just seems so fun .

Uh , that's definitely different , because that show launched last year , yeah , like after we recorded our last episode . So , uh , and then , honestly , um dream guest amanda gets oh awesome and I ran into her today and I said will you come on my show ? I was very like , I was like nervous , like really nervous about it , um , and she was like , yeah , totally , and I'm like my , you know , it's just , my audience is like solopreneur parents , it's just like that's perfect and so , uh , yeah , so hopefully we'll make that happen .

But she has a agreed in principle , yeah , um , so I'm , I'm making my dream guest happen . I'm really excited about that I love it , like putting it out there and like just like in real time . So next time you're on the show and maybe by this time next year we'll we'll have another one and you'll be like this was like you're just checking them off . Yeah , that's why .

That's another great thing about these conferences , right . It's like you meet great people . Like I did ask , like I said hey to a couple of people who don't like . If she says , like hey , this guy Exactly .

I just say he's got that same approval . He's got the blue checkmark . Yeah , the real life blue checkmark , right , yeah , exactly . Okay , my last question is do you consider yourself a perfectionist ?

I used to , and I've started to think 80% for most things , perfection for just a few , right , it's like that Fight Club quote like one second is the most we can ever hope for for perfection , uh , whatever , it's like something like that . Um , and I think , like , probably , like being a parent has helped because , like I don't have , if I I don't have the time to make things as perfect as possible , and the beautiful thing about working on the internet is that nothing , nothing is permanent in the sense that like it can't be changed .

You say something online , it's probably there forever , but like I can launch something and then iterate on it . Yeah . We're not building a skyscraper , and so I would say I used to be , and life has taught me that I don't need to be . Yeah .

I used to be , and life has taught me that I don't need to be . Yeah , yeah , oh . That felt like a mic drop , like these are really expensive mics . We won't drop these .

We won't drop these . You're good . You're good , perfectly positioned . Yes , I know , I didn't even have to move it , I know .

Well , before we let you go , I just want to know . Super memorable talk keynote . The conference isn't over like we're recording this , but is there one that you're like ? Man , everybody's got to go check out this one person uh , I mean gosh , uh , uh , amanda gets .

Obviously I just love what she's doing . Um , but uh , clay , the first guy who spoke yes , clay ebert , I think it was his name , yeah um , he just has a very refreshing take on what we traditionally call the elevator pitch . Yeah , and I thought I had a really good opening line before his talk . Yeah , and it just got better after this song .

So that's and it's something that no matter what you , no matter what you do , people will ask , like , no matter what field you're in , people will ask you what do you do ? Yeah and having a good answer is a plus . He had a clip of a bunch of tv shows I loved it dario was in it and I'm , like man , deep cut deep cut . Yes , for all the millennials out there , or the gen gen z ?

go look up dario if you don't know like it's totally worth it jimmy and garofalo didn't voice her , even though everybody thought they did . Like crack check Chanty's . like I don't know any of the words . Yeah , like I don't know what's happening .

What is MTV ? What are you talking about ? Well , Joe , this has been fantastic . Where can everyone connect with you and follow along with what you're doing now ?

Yeah , if you go over to casabonaorg you dot org you'll find my snappy intro and you'll be able to get on my mailing list where I'm being authentic and talking about the things I'm working on and struggling and helping solopreneurs be on their phone list Dot org . now that feels so fantasy . So let me tell you this is maybe the show after the show . Yes , I bought my domain in 2004 and dot com was taken okay and so I I bought dot org and I've been trying for 20 years and there was a point between 2010 and 2020 where the website was not updated , and so I'd email this .

A seemingly lovely woman named helen , um , you know , say hey , you want to sell the domain , uh-huh , and she's like no , I really like the email address and I'm like I will let you keep the email address . But then the pandemic happened and she revamped her website . Now she's doing like a bunch of stuff so yeah I'll just always beorg , I guess I love it , though I love it , though it's like super official yeah , so y'all go check out Joe's podcast . Go to his website , like all the places .

Yes , all of that is there . Casa Bona Network is the one true source . Okay , thank you so much , joe . We'll have to do this again next time , but I always appreciate our conversations .

Thanks so much for having me Always great talking to you , Crystal yeah .