GameChanger Fitness: Lessons From Private Equity | Joe Meglio | The Owner Seat Podcast

Speaker A: Welcome back to the Owner Seat podcast. The show for operators, franchisors, franchisees and founders who want the real playbook for where fitness is actually going and how to build a model that doesn't get left behind. Today's episode is for anyone, the owner, you who's ever wondered what it actually takes to go from one studio to a platform to a portfolio and what happens when private equity is starts paying attention. Single unit operators plateau for a reason. I see this all the time. Scaling a boutique Fitness brand from one location of 16 isn't a marketing problem. It's a finance, operations and discipline situation. And most founders hit a wall long before they figure that out. Here's what I'm excited about. My guest today is Joe Meglio, Founder and CEO of Game Changer Fitness. I know you've heard of them. They're everywhere. Check them out in New Jersey and Maryland. We're going to talk about that. But they are pumping it, they're rocking it. Joe started game changer 12 years ago in a 600 square foot baseball facility in New Jersey. Today Game Changer operates 16 locations across New Jersey and Maryland with Wayne, New Jersey in pre sale and and then there's two new studios, Montclair and Hillsborough, which grand open in March. So excited. Game Changer was named to the Inc 5000 in 2025. On the back. Listen to this. 125% in revenue growth over three years. No wonder private equity is looking at this platform. The concept is personalized strength training for busy adults over 40. Small group coach led, no front desk, no guesswork. The average member is a 50 year old woman who wants to feel strong, move well and not lose the next 20 years of life to injury and inactivity. And here's what's interesting about Joe's story and you're going to hear it today. Game Changers now sitting inside active conversations with private equity and family office capital. Have you been there? Get ready for it because these are the next three years that you're going to hear about the unit at Economics speak for themselves. I've seen it. I've lifted up the hood roughly 40%. 4 wall EBITDA margins, 150 member cap per studio, a simple 1400-2000 square foot footprint and a coach retention. My favorite model that most franchises would kill for. I wish you could see all of this stuff. We're not going to share all the financial details but I want you to hear about the journey that Joe's going through. Joe, I know that was a mouthful. Welcome to the owner seat podcast brother. Great to have you.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm excited to be here, Albert, and ready to dig in.

Speaker A: Let's dig in. Well, let's go back. So take me back, man, to 2013. What? You were 24 at the time and I was looking at your background. We've had some chats, underground strength, uh, and York Sports Club. Like, massive amount of experience. I mean, you're in it, right? You've lived this industry, It's a small industry. You've lived this industry and then you decide, let's just do it, let's pull the trigger. Game changer. 600 square foot baseball facility. Just walk us through it. What, what happened? Why did you decide to be an entrepreneur and take us from there?

Speaker B: Yeah, I was, I was probably two years removed from school, so I was 23 and up to that point all I did, it's all I knew was fitness. Right. I was a college baseball player and I started as a trainer when I was 17. My parents were like, if you want to get a car, you need to get a job. And I was like, I like working out, so let me go to New York Sports Club and, and get a job. And then I quickly wanted to learn for myself how to better for my sport. And that's really where the journey began. I think as you realize you're not going to be a professional athlete and you want to then help others, that's really what spurred, uh, the move towards this. And I think it was always very entrepreneurial. Right. In college I was, it was less accessible to get to order off Amazon and all that. So I would, I ordered supplements and redistributed them in my, in my dorm room. Right. So I always knew I wanted to run my own business and do all that. I was at a place where I was coaching as a, as a trainer somewhere else and that really ran its course and the time just felt right. I had five years of experience at that point as a trainer and coach. And yeah, I just, I never considered alternatives. When I graduated college, I never looked for a, quote unquote, real job. I was like, uh, I'm m gonna, you know, run my own business one day. And I just got more experience and when I was ready, I was ready. So that, that's really how it all started. Um, more on the backstory. I, I started inside a baseball facility. One of my college coaches worked there and was able to get me in. So I started Game Changer out of the room, the utility room where they throw birthday parties or biking gets Underutilized.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And um, yeah, so that's how I started. I, I scraped Craigslist and found equipment and drove up and down New Jersey, Long island to find equipment and, and started. That's how it started. So 13 years. Yeah, this, this may will be 13 years. And since I started, well, we got

Speaker A: to give a shout out to coach, man. He, he, he opened the door. That's awesome.

Speaker B: That's cool.

Speaker A: Is he involved in Game Changer at all or is he just a rating?

Speaker B: Yeah, no, yeah, he just got me in there because he was working there at the time and. And um, yeah, the rest is, uh, the rest is history.

Speaker A: Yeah. That's awesome. Well, shoot. We're still going, uh, you have a lot going on, a lot of exciting things. Yeah. Huge success and it's going to continue. So was it always Game Changer? I know at the top I talked about kind of the average member and now I know it's, it's for everyone. But I was wanting to go y more on your niche. But did it always start the way it is today? When you look at your demographic and some of the things I love, by the way, whoever's doing your website and all of the PR marketing, they're outstanding. Has it always been that niche or did you have to evolve over time?

Speaker B: Yeah, the business I started is not the business we are today. So being in the baseball facility, being with my background as a college baseball player, my business was training athletes, primarily middle, uh, school, high school, college level baseball players and athletes. So that was the business that I started. One of the challenges with being in that business is it's very cyclical and seasonal. There's built in attrition as kids move from let's call it middle school to high school and into college. So it wasn't, it was, it was great. I loved it. It was one of my, it was my passion at the time. And then we slowly start to getting into adult training to really diversify the business offerings. You're in these business masterminds and that was one of the things that came up is think about diversifying what you're doing so you have more year round, uh, more consistency. So that's. We fell into the adult training for that reason. And I think a lot of the prints from a training perspective, a lot of the principles we applied to training athletes, we applied to training our adults and we just really ran with it from there. It started to take off. It was during like the boom of meta Facebook ads really first came onto the scene. Uh, and what have you? So that really helped expand our business and we just, I had my head down and was growing that one location. We were in that 600 square foot location for two years before we moved to 6,000 square foot. That's our HQ location. We still have that today and we still operate out of that today. But we went 10x in size and we just really outgrew that one little location. And at that time when we moved we were still training athletes. It was probably 50% or more of our business still at the time of the move. But our adult program was really growing and we really had nowhere to go with it. That's, that would really what necessitated that move is we saw a lot of opportunity, a lot of interest on the adult fitness general pop side. So it was just part of the plan to always. It wasn't going to be in that baseball place forever. That was a starting point, not an end point. So getting into our own facility, our own lease and doing all that was um, the plan. So we did that after two years and just continue to grow that one location from 2015 to I would say really around Covid 2020. Um, was, was really, that was my main role was just I was general manager of my one location and head down, growing it, building it and what have you. So and we, what uh, what changed was over the years we, I started, I was doing all the consultations, right. So I was mainly meeting uh, with women who at the time probably had younger kids I would say. But you just start to see a lot of the same things over and over and you hear a lot of the same things over and over again. So and our program was working so well that we just, we kept growing word of mouth and referral. So we'd started to build and design the program around that, that niche. And then I think it really was post Covid or I would say when we started to expand into these smaller retail footprints of 1400 to 2000 square feet, it really made our training more accessible to um, that, that population. And we really weren't, we didn't start that targeting, you know, fitness over 40 until it was abundantly clear that was our demographic. Right. So we, you know, I think when we look back and we look at okay, who is our average member, it's depending on the market, it's probably a 48 to 52 year old female, 80% or so. Um, that's really where we, where we focused on the marketing side around that. But I think that demographic really started to take off when we went into the smaller footprint, where it became more accessible. It wasn't an intimidating environment. There weren't many options, especially strength training at the time. I think it's been become more mainstream now but uh, six, seven, eight years ago it really wasn't. You were fighting, oh, I don't want to get too big, I don't want to get too bulky.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And all that. But now it's become more mainstream. So yeah, I think, I think that's, I think seeing that opportunity and seeing who we were servicing and then just coming at it from a different marketing angle is where we landed on that.

Speaker A: And I can't wait to jump into the unit economics and marketing your customer acquisition costs. Right. At a surface level. I want to chat about it but I'm curious because you just went through the evolution of where the brand started for more athletes and performance training and then you found this, you started to get more narrow, you started to laser in and notice where the massive demand was. But I can only imagine, right, you were mentioning even variety or diversification earlier and I see a lot of owners go through this where they want to cast the wide net. But you didn't do that. You wanted to get niche and you realized this was going to allow you to go from eventually here, 1 to 16 plus. What's your advice to owners listening to this? Because I'm sure, I mean I've been there too. I want to do a thousand things. I want to cater to everyone. Like how did you get through that? Was that you alone? Did you have to bounce those ideas on some partners? Was it data? Like what was it that made you say no, no, this is, this is game changer Fitness. This is what we're all about.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's a good question. I think there's a couple of different things. So at our peak at our HQ location we really had three different service offerings. We had our athlete training, uh, side of the business. We had our personal training in a small group. That's the one that we decided to scale and then we had a large group, more metabolic based, uh, program as well. So I think it was a couple of different things for us. It was really looking at what could we really be world class at. Right. We love the athlete side of the business. Uh, but that was, it was. It's a hard business to be in. Right. You're talking, kids are in school all day. So you're. That business is like a 4 to 9pm business Saturday and Sunday. Right. And everything. Um, and it just wasn't a business that I saw the future in. Um, and then you had the large group, which I thought was like, it was great that we did it, but it wasn't like, there's better brands out there that do that better than us. So it was what was the one vertical that I thought we could be really strong at and was really aligned from a training standpoint, philosophically and what have you. And it's also where the most money was, right when you look at the margins and where the interest was. We found like there was a real need there. We, um, found like that's what we, we did the best. So it was, it was going through it and having those experiences and understanding, okay, well, this is where the business is at. And yeah, let's look at the financial side of it. Let's understand what we believe we are, you know, we could be world class at. And it all, all, all signs pointed to that direction. Um, so, yeah, that's how we really ultimately landed on that. And that would be really. The advice that I give is you got to understand what your model is at the end of the day. And if you're going to try to do everything, you're not probably not going to do everything. Well, I think it's having the humility to realize that, um, um, it's not as easy as people think it is. Right. To grow and to build a business. Um, um, so I think, understanding, like, I think I realized that like, hey, like, we can't be amazing at all these things. We have to pick a lane and, and go all in on that lane and, and, and narrow our focus if we're going to be really good at this. Because I think for me it's like, give me the distracted operator. I think that's who I would love to go up against. Because you're distracted right where I, I'm saying, hey, I understand, like we've got limited resources and we're going to pile it but all into this, uh, one program or one, one way to scale because it's hard to do it all, man. It's not an easy thing to do.

Speaker A: So you mean the distracted operator. I freaking love that. That's so good. Don't be the distracted operator. Joe Miglio is going to pass you. All right? So, um, I want to switch gears into scaling. And you mentioned something I love, I love that you share this because the absentee owner or franchisee, I'll tell you, it gets under my skin. Cause it's just, it's not sustainable and it's very rare that that's successful. Happens every now and then. But don't be the absentee owner. So, Joe, you were talking about how you were on Craigslist. You're scraping, you're scrubbing. And actually, there might be some people that don't even know what that is. Go look it up. Uh, this is what we do. We shop for stuff. And, you know, not the Amazon. It wasn't around yet. So you're getting equipment. I mean, you're figuring this out. You're super passionate. You're making this happen. And then you were talking about. And I love that you share this. You're doing consults. I mean, you're wearing multiple hats. You're in it. You're in your studio, living, breathing. I'm sure you're sleeping there some nights. So that studio one, what? Had a change. As you like. Okay, let's go. Studio two. Let's go. Studio three. This is. This is where I hear there's a lot of pain point. Cause it's like, you can't be everywhere, Joe. You can't.

Speaker B: No doubt.

Speaker A: You can't be at all of them all at once. How did you, like, what did you have to give up? How did you figure out, like, what. Okay, here's what I'm great at. Uh, here are the things that I'm gonna have to delegate, like, walk us through that whole journey. Cause a lot of people struggle with this. It's crazy. It sounds so simple, but people struggle with this.

Speaker B: Yeah, no doubt. I think for Game Changers growth in the earlier days, it was more opportunistic than strategic. So our second location was a location in Maryland, a different brand from, uh, from a colleague of mine who wanted to get out of his business. So I. So I bought it for no money, out of pocket, essentially. And I took on, um, one of his trainers as an operating partner, who I vetted prior. Uh, he's still with us today. And it was an opportunity where I was like, well, we. You know, there's not a lot of risk here. There's. There's upside. It was. It was an established business in the area, and it was an opportunity for us to put in our brand, put in our training systems and to see how it went. Right. So it was a. It was a calculated bet that I made. And everyone always asked, how'd you land in Maryland? And that's how we took over an existing, uh, brick and mortar business and rebranded it and retooled it and everything. So that's how we landed there. And then the third one, likewise I was at this point I was still running our HQ location but I had great team members who wanted to grow and there was only so much they can grow within our first location. So at the time again it was more opportunistic. It was okay, well let's go do another location that you're going to really operate and run and I'm going to mentor you and lead you and give you the systems and do all of that. And we partnered on that. So that's really for us. I think as I think about the operator and how do you go from two to three? I knew that it wasn't going to be me running around from two location 1, 2 and 3. I didn't want to be in that, in that position. For me it was about having the right people in place to be able to facilitate that. And I think there's different ways to think about that. Right. One is the way that I did it. I'm going to do this because I have the right people that I'm going to partner with to go and. To go and be the person in charge and really take ownership and be that local business owner and live and breathe the business and do what's necessary. So I think that's one model. The other model, if you were to flip that would have been to secure HQ and let that run like a well oiled machine and then I'd be that person who's going to go and launch the second and the third one. So I think did you kind of

Speaker A: did both because you actually kicked uh, it off with the operating. And I'd love to hear it like how was this journey give us, you know, not, not the sensitive details but like how do those conversations go? How when was it like when it was going well? It's going well with the operating partners but we all know it's business sometimes like I got operating partners sometimes it's like man, we're not agreeing on some of these decisions. So you did that but then you also did the Holdco model. Cause you started to. I'm sure as things were pumping like holy smokes, we can do more. And you're just visualizing the future. Like walk us through that. Like you actually decided to pivot and go that Holdco model too.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think for me it was okay, well what's the end game here? Right? I think for the first couple of locations it was more, it was more opportunistic. I had great people, they wanted to grow. I didn't really know where things were going. Right. I was just I only knew what I knew at the time and, and I had good people in front of me. So it was more about what it was more playing checkers, I guess than chess. Right. But thinking about it more from a big picture standpoint, okay, what is, what is the ultimate goal here? And if it's to build a real brand and something that we can really scale, I do think that was scalable, right. Because I was dependent on having those right people and I knew those team members for a really long time, right. As we were, as we were growing at it. So I think it was more about the whole model is more about building the infrastructure in place that's going to go and open and launch businesses and run them than rely on the individual partner who was going to be that, that local business operator in that market. So I think it was a shift of how can we do this more at scale or ramp up a little bit quicker versus waiting for that next person to come through and so forth. So I think it was, it was a different challenge that I gave myself in terms of how we're going to go and scale this. And I thought there would be more teeth doing it that way which, which has helped get us here. Um, so yeah, I think, I think about our growth in two stages. That opportunistic growth like hey, what's in front of us? And knowing like I can't be at all places at all times and I have these team members that do want to grow and the more strategic part of it that some flip something switched somewhere where like, okay, well this isn't maybe the most scalable way to do this. We want to put more of an infrastructure in place that's going to be able to help support and grow and launch these locations at a little bit more of a rapid pace and not dependent on having that individual owner operator in every single one location.

Speaker A: Part of scaling. Right. You think about, and I chat about this a lot and maybe I should chat about it more on the show, but economies of scale, right. And finding these efficiencies, um, expanding, right. Is another pain point that I think a lot of owners on this, on this, on this, those uh, that are watching or listening, either you've gone through it and you know exactly what we're about to hit on here next, or you're thinking about expanding. This is something you need to pay attention to. It's very difficult. You think about build out costs. Right. And one thing that I know is Joe, through your experience in this journey of game changer, you've gotten really disciplined with understanding, okay, what is it going to take? What's the all in costs roughly per location? And so can you walk us through that as you're going from location one to two and you're learning more about the financial and the operational, even some of the personal challenges, but then getting into that build out number to launch, you know, 4, 5, 6, what were some of the things, now that you look back, it's like, okay, this is what I would go tell younger Joe. Hey, don't do this or hey, continue doing that. What were some of the learning lessons as you started to grow even faster? Um, specifically in that, that build out, that build out all in cost.

Speaker B: I think what I think, fortunately coming bootstrapping the whole business, it almost forces a level of scrappiness and resourcefulness and discipline that is really a useful muscle as you continue to scale. So every decision I made, I always run it through the lens of is this, how is this going to help improve the economics of this business? And if it didn't, then it didn't make sense to keep. Right. So just some examples that are at our main location, we had so much different equipment and what have you. And I was like, how much of this is do we really need to carry over into the next location? Like, why is it that we're going to get people to sign up and what's going to keep them coming back? And if anything that we did didn't really influence that, it was, it was a nice to have, not a need to have. Right. So I think having some sort of framework of understanding what really drives the value prop in your business is super important. And then using that as the framework to make financial decisions, that was super helpful for us. I think it's very easy to get carried away with adding a lot of extra equipment, a lot of bells and whistles, a lot of things that are again, maybe look great, cool, but aren't going to drive the economics of your business. So I think it's really understanding truly what that is and maybe not being attached to everything at the same time. Right. So understanding like what, what equipment do you really need to make your model work? Um, from a staffing standpoint, who do you really need on your team to make that model work from a build out? Right. Are you building it out for yourself and your own ego or are you building it out because it's what your consumer wants? Right. So those are the things that I think. And again I think it was because it was early on, it was still is it's my money, right? And I knew like, okay, I'm investing this, like I want to see a return on that or I didn't, I didn't have, you know, money that I could just waste. Right. I wanted to be really efficient and smart with the money I was putting in to the business. So I think, I think that muscle, it's, it's, it's, I'm glad I developed it because I think now it's the lens I look at every decision through, um, and that transfers now to like, okay, well like that's going to increase our build out costs and that's going to make our ramps harder or that's going to make our payback periods longer. And is that something that is the juice worth the squeeze at the end of the day? Right? So I think, um, I think just being early on, being scrappy developed that and now I think that's been a good framework to look at it more through a financial lens of if it doesn't really improve the some form of economics of the business, is it really needed? And at the same time you still always want to innovate and you still want to iterate on what you do and find ways to get better and do things better and evolve. So I think there is a balance there or dichotomy to be managed. But uh, you just can't pile on and pile on and think that everything is gonna, you have to have good reasons for really driving your costs up. You have to understand how it's gonna impact your business.

Speaker A: What I love about what you said earlier though, it can be as simple as, as you're walking around, looking around or planning. And by the way, I love all this strategy piece that you go through here and I just highly recommend people go back in this episode and just listen to Joe and some of the questions he's asking himself, some of the things that he's talking with his team about, because this is where we have to slow it down and make really good decisions. You said is it going to make them join and is it going to make them come back? And I think that's an easy thing like everyone can do today, tomorrow and say, hey, as we're doing some of these things and I'm thinking about these ideas, does it meet those requirements? And if it doesn't, scrap it, crumble it up, throw it in the trash, or don't bring that to location two and three or whatever. Um, and speaking of that, speaking of expanding, another part of this is location. So how do you, as you Were going through that, I mean, were you using some data? Were you driving around? What were you doing to figure out, okay, this is, this is the next game changer. This is game changer ready as far as a market that you'd, you'd want to be in.

Speaker B: I'm laughing because I think early on it was not, it was not very scientific. Right. And I think we're still getting to the point to make it more scientific. So early on it was me, it was just like areas that I was somewhat, somewhat familiar with. Right. And okay, this could be a good area. There's a lot of money in this area, yada yada. So I think it wasn't, it wasn't, I'm not going to pretend here and say it was really scientific early on. I think it was, I think it was me knowing the areas a little bit and then getting with a broker who also knew the areas. Um, but I think, I think that's something that I wouldn't underestimate. Right. As you're scaling because you know you're signing a five or ten year lease, that's one of the biggest decisions that you can make is where are you going to put your business. Right. Right. And that is a fixed cost. You can't, you know, it's very hard to change your rent factor. So I think luckily we made some good choices in the early days with, with that and it wasn't all scientific. I think, you know, just knowing the areas that we're in, I think there's an advantage to that. Right. And, and having the supporting demographics are, are, are really helpful in believing that. But outside of that we weren't super scientific with, with things. It's like, okay, I think that that's a good area. There's good demographics. We're, we're pricier models. So understanding that there had to be the affluence in the area and you also want some density too. So finding the right balance of, of that's important. But I think that's something where. I'm glad that we got that right early on. But had we not, I think that would have been a big mistake. Um, for sure. Because you're locked in. Right. And it's hard to cut those losses off early on. So I think making sure you get the location side of things right is, it's one of the most important decisions you could make. So getting, getting the right people and resources around you on the real estate front I think is really critical. If you're looking to scale.

Speaker A: Yeah. And slow down. That Signing process. To your point, you gotta vet that thing. Actually, I think I have a dozen episodes now. Um, occupancy costs. That lease is so important. Um, it's funny though, because you get so married to the spot and what it can be and you just want to make the dream happen. And sometimes that lease can. It should be the deal breaker if it's not mathing out. Um, yeah, it's very hard to change. I've been in some of these conversations. I'll tell you my win loss ratio on renegotiating those leases. You know, when you look at that agreement, you know what kind of leverage you have or don't have right off the bat. And the landlord knows it. So, uh, yes, slowing that process, uh, down for sure. Well, let's switch gears into infrastructure and back office. So to your point, and everyone can relate with this, like, you're in it, you're in the mix. You're doing consults, you're on Craigslist. I mean, you're driving to locations. There's not a lot of science behind it, but you got the feel like you're the entrepreneur, you know it, you're talking to people. I mean, that's the art, that's the magic. And I highly recommend that people do that. Don't just go to ArcGIS and think, oh, the data says this and it's great. Go right, get the clicker out. And that's the way I used to do it back in the day. You're clicking on traffic like, okay, one, they went by two, that's three or third car, you're looking at traffic patterns and all of that. Um, but walk me through the finance side of things or even the accounting side of things. Like, when did you know, okay, we need to professionalize this. Right? It can't just be me looking at my checking account. It's. I gotta start thinking about how, like bookkeeping and making sure that I'm looking at all of this KPI and I've been able to lift up the hood. And your reporting is outstanding. Like, how, when did you decide, like, okay, we need visibility.

Speaker B: Yeah. I think really, really early on. I think as an operator, you have to know what your strengths are and your weaknesses. For me, I knew my strengths were going to be more on the sales, marketing, leadership side of things. The training side. It was not in finance. Right. So I think it's understanding what your true strengths and weaknesses are. And if that wasn't going to be me, then we needed to get the right person, uh, in place to Help give that visibility in place. So we hired our fractional CFO way before we needed to because I knew that was an important part of the business and it always gave me uh, it always brought like a level of understanding that I just didn't have. So it was an education process for me. So we, we brought that resource on. And any business, you just think of the functional areas, right. They're the ones I just named. Sales, marketing, operations and finance. Right. And, and you're in a small business, you're going to wear a lot of those hats, but you can't wear them all. So really we're the ones. And there's some when it comes to like hiring trainers. Yeah, of course we can hire trainers that don't have a lot of skills in the beginning. We can train them up. That's not the case with, with, with finance. Right. So you have to understand what the needs are of your business and understand what's trainable and what you're hiring for skill or is that an area that you're going to train? So for us just knowing that was such a blind spot for me and knowing that like uh, this is going to be a really critical function of the business, I need to find someone who can bring a level of knowledge that I just don't have. So I think early on I think we hired well in advance or we brought that resource in in house. Not, uh, in house. We brought that resource on board well in advance of us needing it. We were probably, we were one location certainly I was probably three years into my business at that point. But it just brought a level that we just didn't have.

Speaker A: And how did you carve that out? Because you're in the day to day, things are moving fast, which we all get passionate about. We love that. We love the speed of this industry and serving others and changing lives. How did you carve out that time to get educated with your fractional CFO around four wall ebitda? Uh, and then as you were going into Holdco, understanding the economics there and then as we all probably want to, I mean this isn't a for free job. Like we want to get paid too. We got obligations like owner distributions and then the good old debt debt stack and your debt strategy. Like how did you start? How did you carve this out? Did you just spend a lot of time and did you set aside time? Like what did that, what did that look like?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's evolved over the years. I think when we were one unit it was really understanding what drove the Unit economics at that specific unit. Right. What were the KPIs, the critical drivers of that business? So when it's 1:1, it's one location. For us, it was, how many leads did we get, how many trials did we book, how many of those trials turned into memberships and what's our monthly churn or attrition? Understanding that was super important, right? And spending years really trying to understand, okay, great. If those are the. That's the scoreboard, what influences the scoreboard? Numbers and so forth. Right? Because those are going to be more of the leading indicators of revenue. Those aren't all leading indicators in general, but leading indicators that you can understand at least. Why. What's happening in the business? Are you growing? If so, why? Where are the inefficiencies? What buckets are strong? What buckets are leaking? What do you do? You need to improve your sales, your marketing process, your retention processes. So I think that those basic scorecard for us and looking at that week over week and understanding, like just having that embedded in my brain is important. I think as a former athlete, having a scorecard in general is great. You know, I think, I think I'm, um, I have been a distracted operator too, and I'm a quick start. You've got lots of ideas. You have to understand what you're optimizing for. You have to understand what the scoreboard is, and then you could pour your energy into improving those numbers in the scoreboard. So I think when we were one unit and even two, three, was really understanding that. I think when I started to change the room of the people that I was in, then the conversation just started to change naturally, right. It became more around four wall ebitda. It became around, you know, your consolidated or your corporate ebitda, uh, your corporate overhead, right. What are your payback periods? So I think that was a byproduct of me just asking myself different questions and with my vision changed. And you then, or you then start thinking differently, right? And you start asking different questions and you start finding the people in those networks who are maybe having those same questions. So for me, that shift came when we started to think more about, okay, we're building, really trying to build more of an enterprise here than just a few locations. Right. So I think the early stages and that opportunistic stage, it was very embedded of what are those critical drivers that they shared. But as I started to think about a bigger picture for Game Changer, it was, okay, well, let me understand what's going to really drive business there and what are the questions that they're asking? What are the metrics that they're looking at beyond just the ones that we're looking at for the first, you know, 10 years of my business? Um, so that's, that's really how we landed on that. I think it was. It was getting in the room with different people and asking different questions and, and just being around. That's how I learn. I learned by doing and I learned by getting, um, integrated into the process. So I think my focus changing also helped with that a ton. So cool.

Speaker A: You know, I love the books and even podcasts that you listen to that not only share, you know, the best practices, right? Like, just gimme the gems. And nowadays you can roll stuff into AI and it just, you know, spits it out for you off that podcast. But what I really appreciate is when someone shares, hey, here are, like, the three mistakes that I made. Don't do them, y'.

Speaker B: All.

Speaker A: Like, you pass it down, you're leaving a legacy. On the financial side, and some of the decisions you made early on, you know, you even mentioned. And not that you made a bad decision on the, on the real estate side, that was just great advice. But is there anything that you, you did earlier on as you started to expand that you'd like to share with the audience on, hey, just don't do this. I made this mistake. It's on me. But don't. Don't put that in your L L bracket as well.

Speaker B: I think when I think about the most expensive mistakes that I made an operator can make, I definitely would put real estate at the top of that. Right. Because of the things we talked about. I also would put people at the, at the. Making bad people decisions. Those are mistakes I've made for sure. Right? Not having clearly defined roles for team members, maybe not holding them accountable, maybe not choosing some of the best ones, but I think of the biggest mistakes I made in my business, it's probably been, um, I could have made better decisions around, you know, people there. I also think not understanding your model is important. I think those are mistakes that are really important. When we went into our, uh, third location, the second one in New Jersey, this was really the second one that we started from scratch. Our initial model was going to be double what it was. It was going to be two coaches on up to 12 people. And then we, we quickly pivoted off of that because we just learned, like, um, man, like this was. This was going to be challenge. This is going to be challenging to, to do and maybe the square footage we had and so forth. So I think some of the. We're. We're constantly testing different things out. I think one of the things I would have done differently was make sure that we had the right resources to ramp quickly. I think when you are, you know, scrappy and lean, you. I think I overestimated what we were capable of in some ways. And I would have put more, uh, resources into play because then you're stretched thin. Your team's gonna be stretched a bit thin. So I think making the right people decisions is really, really important at the field level, of course. And I think that's where then we had team members who grew with us, and they didn't really have a clearly defined role. So I think those are things I would do differently as well. I'm an idea person at the end of the day too, right. Like, I'm a quick start. So I'd like to see opportunity in a lot of different things and people. But having more discipline around your structure and what that looks like is something that I could have benefited from, um, earlier. Earlier on for sure. But I think, yeah, like the real estate side. And I think that when I just think about myself and the, The. The biggest mistakes I've made, they've always been around the people side. Now I also think we've made a lot of good decisions on the people side, but those are the most costly, right, because they impact, you know, there's. There's a real cost to what you're paying those team members. Then there's the distraction it caused is for other people. Your other team members are maybe training them. So people are. It's not just. I'm not just invested financially in that. You're invested, uh, focus and energy and time from yourself and other team members around you into people as well. So I think getting really clear on who you need and why you need them and how you're measuring success is something that, you know, I think is really, really important, something that I could have done a better job with for sure. Um, and, you know, luckily we have a lot. We have a great team, and a lot of them have grown with us. And. But I think about, okay, what are the biggest mistakes I've made? It's the ones that haven't worked out, and you're not going to be a hundred percent. I don't think that's realistic either. But, um, yeah, I think those are probably been the most costly for sure.

Speaker A: Well, I met a couple people on your squad. I could attest, man, your squad Is awesome. I got to give her a shout out. I mean she's impressive. I hope she's watching this Jessica, she's a killer, man. I don't know where you found her. She is a awesome. Big shout outs to Jessica. She gets the big shout out today. I love it.

Speaker B: Jess is awesome.

Speaker A: Yeah, she's so good. So detailed. Let's talk unit economics. And then I want to get into private equity and I'm sure a lot of people are going to want to listen, so stick around. This is some good stuff. But you rattled off some, some KPIs here and can you walk us through that again? Because I could tell, man, you've, you've probably gotten obsessed about what is game changers KPIs that really, really moves the needle. So walk us through just that, that like that cadence, like you wake up, right? Give us, give us the behind the scenes, um, of the owner of Game Changer Fitness, the founder. What are you looking for? What are you looking at? Like, what needs to be in front of you? What does the team know needs to be in front of you and them? And like, what are you looking at to see? I, uh, always think of like the, the green, yellow, red, right. From a KPI dashboard. Like, what is that for you?

Speaker B: Yeah. So I think the end goal is we want the output to be revenue. Right. So what are the numbers that are going to influence that? So it's really, there's, I would say it starts with our sales and marketing funnel, right? So it's how many leads came into the system of those leads, how many were we able to book for a consult or a trial or what have you, whatever your process is. And then those that have booked for a trial or consult, how many were able to convert to membership? And then on the other side of that is what does our monthly churn look like? What's our retention rate month over month? So I think at a very basic level that's going to help us understand what's happening in our business. And you can get more sophisticated than that. But I think understanding that's really important. Right. And then by channel too, I think meta and paid ads is a big part of, of what a lot of fitness businesses are doing. So really understanding what your RO ads is, is important. And that's, that's, that's been a challenge of late getting that number. Right. But understanding that is, is really important because then understand, okay, great. If you're putting a dollar into the slot machine, what's coming out on the other side of It. Right. So I think customer acquisition costs would go into that. What's your lt lifetime value? Those are things that are going to help make, help understand the marketing process and what's working and not working there and what's happening in. From a retention standpoint. But I think from a pure. Okay, like if you have a locate, if I have a location that's bleeding and we're churning through 10% of members a month in our model, that doesn't work. That's not, that's not the standard of where we want to be. There's. That means that there's a coaching problem. There's something going on from a customer experience standpoint that needs to be addressed. Right. So those KPIs are going to help us unpack if they're, if we're off track, helps us understand. Okay, we need to take a deeper look at that. Right. So if it's a retention side, that's going to tell us there's something going on inside the four walls that needs to be addressed. What's the coaching like? What's the customer experience like? Why is that not at the level it needs to be at? Ah, if, if customer acquisition is off, there's a number of different things. It could be, it could be our sales process of how we're converting people. It could be our marketing funnel, uh, totally bounced.

Speaker A: Real quick. Can you, uh, can you, can you, can you go back to what you're saying and then I'll edit that out or edit this out.

Speaker B: Um, which part should I pick up from the, from this, from the top?

Speaker A: No, no, you were, you were talking about, um, like CAC customer acquisition costs. Like.

Speaker B: Yeah, so CAC customer acquisition costs, those are really important metrics that are going to help us understand our marketing, what's working, um, and how much we can invest there. Um, but like these, these all play together, right? And I think the idea is if you want to understand how you're going to drive your business forward, you gotta understand where the leaky buckets are. So if our churn at the location is 10% in a month, as an example for us, we know that's a red flag. And we need to know like, okay, what's going on inside the four walls that's causing that? Is it the coach is not delivering the experience that's expected? What's going on? Right. Same thing. If our, um, customer acquisition cost is too high, we have to look at our marketing, our lead quality, we have to look at probably more sort of sales process and where are we not getting enough people on the phone, Are we not getting enough people into trial? Are we not converting trials so Those high level KPIs will help us. You have to unpack and understand really problem solve beyond that of why that bucket is leaky. But I think staying laser focused on that, it's going to really help you drive your business forward. And if all the conversations you're having with your team is around those KPIs, you're focused on the right things. It's easy to get distracted in business, no doubt. But I think staying focused on those KPIs helps the converse. Steer the conversation with your team in the right direction and you can problem solve for the right things.

Speaker A: Love it. Well, now you know, as you're built, you've built this platform, your KPIs, your unit economics are now getting pressure tested. Let's talk about it. Private equity. I've said it on different, on different shows that we're in a three year cycle. This private equity roll up back in the fitness, wellness and longevity space is definitely here and you get to be living it right now. This is what I'm talking about is some of you owners that are listening. You are going to be Joe soon. And Joe, Joe, you're, you're living it today. You've gotten massive amount of interest from family, office and private equity. And then I know the banks are knocking on too, but let's, let's talk about private equity here. Um, what have you learned through this process? Like what surprised you about the due diligence process and even some of the conversations you just had of uh, with some of the, of those that may be your partner, your advisor, your partner one day.

Speaker B: There's a lot, man, I think at the end of the day that the unit economics matter. So like it's everything, right? From a concept standpoint, they're not going to care. They're not. That's not their passion, right? At the end of the day they're in business to get a return on their invested capital, right? And the economics of that have to make sense how passionate you are about your concept, your training and so forth. It doesn't really matter, right? Uh, if they believe in the concept and they believe that there's teeth to it, that's like, that's table stakes for them. But I think that was a big takeaway is like they have to believe in what you're doing and they have to believe there's a market for it. But beyond that, the unit economics are going to really Drive everything beyond that, especially PE Inventure. It's a little bit different. They're going to take a lot of different bets and you know, not expect them all to hit. But in PE world they're risk adverse. They're not going to make bets on a, um, on a brand or a company that they m. Like that may not succeed. Right. They're very risk adverse. So they're going to be really calculated with uh, how they go about looking at your business and understanding if it's, if it's a business that they believe will scale because they're not going to put their money behind something that they don't believe is going to do well. So I think that was really eye opening is just like the, just how much of it is really a numbers game from their standpoint. And it needs to be like you could have the greatest, coolest business in the world from, ah, from what you do. But like if the numbers don't make sense, the numbers don't make sense. Yeah, right. So I think that was really eye opening how like that is, that's at the forefront of, of how they're really assessing your business. Um, you know, no matter your passion. And then I think the person that they're investing into, they need to believe that the founder that they're investing in is the type of person who can build the business of where, where it needs to go as well.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, I know you're in exciting conversations at the time of this recording. Um, so how did you like walk us through? Because I'm sure there's people listening and watching this like can relate with you. You were talking about bootstrapping and just organically funding the operation from location one two to then three and then those three to four. So how did you decide, okay, I'm gonna stop cash flowing it myself or I'm going to do some debt financing and chat with some of the banks out there to then. All right, I'm going to entertain this private equity knocking at the door knowing that I might have to give up some of my baby. That's very hard. Like that's a hard. How did you go through that and what were some of the things you had, I mean who were you chatting with that you trusted? Like all of it. Give us the whole real behind the scenes.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think some, I had some mentors who made some introductions for me. I think when I saw on the other side of the table that there was real interest in our model and in our concept and then our unit economics proved that There was real teeth there. I think understanding like there was a real opportunity for scale was really eye opening for me because I didn't really know that right, uh, without having those conversations, I didn't, you know, you just know what you know and you're just doing what you're doing. And I didn't know that there was really that interest. So I think once you realize, once I realized that there was that level of interest, it really opened my mind to the possibilities. We started with EOS in 2017, um, entrepreneurial operating system from the book Traction. And at that time we were one location. And I remember our BHAG goal that they have you set was like 50 locations in 10 years. And at that time it felt so impossible, like no idea how we were going to achieve that. No idea at all. And I think looking back on it now, it doesn't feel like it's a matter of uh, if it's a matter of when and how there's different paths to get there. But I think for me it's like you have to understand really what game you're playing. And I think for me and what I mean by that is if your goal is to run a lifestyle business, I would not go down this path. That's the reality of it. It's not the best path for that. But for me I think being um, motivated by growth and wanting to grow and wanting to build something, I think that's really what I love more than anything. That's where my passion has, it's working up every day. And this is like, I wasn't good enough to be a professional baseball player, but this is my professional franchise that I'm growing and being able to build. That is something that, that's what really drives me more than anything. It used to be fitness, it used to be X, Y and Z. Uh, but like that's really what Dr. Is the building process. So I think knowing what you're building is really, really important because that's going to influence whether or not you should even entertain these discussions or not. Um, because at the end of the day and you have to understand what you're signing up for. So if you're, if your real goal is scale and you want to build, you know, something that is going to maybe one day approach 100 plus units or what have you. Especially we're corporate owned, we didn't really talk about that today. We're not a franchise model. Um, but like you have to understand like what are the real pathways to do that and yes, continuing to Go at it organically. There is, that's a possibility and it's one that, you know, we're going to look at and see, uh, if that makes sense. But also there's opportunity to strike when the iron's hot, where there is real interest and understanding what are the accelerants. So if I think that's really why I've been having these conversations more is to understand like there's a true opportunity to accelerate what we're doing. And I know that's, that is how I'm wired. I like, uh, the journey to grow personally and professionally. So to have something that aligns with that is intriguing. I'll say that.

Speaker A: Amazing. Well, I want to end with this last question and just respect your time. For those that are watching, you can see this, but you have these beautiful, beautiful pictures behind you, right? Uh, the most important people. And as you're going through this entire journey, I mean, you gave us a lot here. How are these conversations at the dinner table, especially with this very exciting inflection point that you're at? Walk us through the real there. Like, how is, how has that been?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's, it's, it's been. I never in the last year I thought about it more than, than ever. Right. Because last 12 years it's head down, build, build, build, and now head above water. Really. It makes you really have conversations around what is really important to you. Right. And really understanding what you're looking to get out of your life and your business. So I think been a lot of conversation around that and what the next, you know, five years could look like and, and all of that. So I think it's forced conversations that we wouldn't be having otherwise, quite honestly. Yeah, um, so I think, yeah, that, that's really what it, what it looks like. It's a lot of, you know, um, especially I've got two young kids, right. So that my days are. I'm, I'm building my business during the day. I'm a, I'm a present father. So a lot of these conversations are happening after 8 o' clock at night, right. In many cases and all of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I think it's just really understanding, um, what you really want to work towards and what you're optimizing for and just, and for me it's optionality, I think. Luckily, um, I'm in a place where I don't have to go down that path if I didn't want to. So having the optionality I think is great. Um, but not Ignoring that as, like, that is a real viable path. So really vetting that. I like to think I'm methodical about my decision making. Um, so understanding that I think is, Is really important. So it's been, it's been a lot of, um, ruminating and, you know, which I don't know that is the best thing, but just really trying to think through, um, what is that right path look like? Because there, there is no right path. Right. But what path am I going to ultimately choose? Those are, those are very real conversations that I'm having now with, uh, with my wife, with myself and people around me, for sure.

Speaker A: Well, the fact that you're just think, Thinking, stopping to think, I think we all could do that a little bit more. And then. And yeah, I just love. And I didn't mention it. So for those that are watching, they understand. But for those listening, he has these beautiful pictures of his family. And Joe, just getting a chance to know you here now, uh, over the last couple months or so. I know you're a big family man, and so I'm, um, sure they're super proud of you. This is such an exciting, uh, time for you. And thank you, thank you for allowing us to, uh, be able to kind of live through you right now and get to know what the heck, what does this, like, really mean and look like and sound like behind the scenes, like, what does it really take? You gave us a lot of gems here, um, and best practices and also what not to do. So thank you for that. This, this is very real. This is why, this is exactly why I started this podcast, is to have these types of conversations. Because I'm telling you, Joe, there is going to be dozens and dozens and hundreds of people that listen and watch this one. And, uh, they're gonna, they're gonna make some better decisions, um, so that they can build wealth for their family and have those types of, uh, conversations, uh, at night after bed and bath. So for those that want to connect with you, I'm sure as those that mentored you, people are going to be knocking at your doors like, Joe, help me. Um, how can they get ahold of you? And then for those that, as they are listening to this and they do some research and want to be a part of your growth story, and that includes investing. How can they learn more about Game Changer and how can they get ahold of you? They're going to want to chat with you.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's the best way to get in touch is my email. Joaimchangerjim.com, um, that would be the best place to get in touch and what have you. So you find me on Instagram as well. I'm not overly active on there, uh, but I'm there. Email would be the best way. And this was great. I love having these conversations and the thoughtful questions and everything. It's good to look back and reflect too on, um, how we got here, what worked, what hasn't worked and whatnot. And we're still in early stages of the journey. Uh, I'd like to say that as well. Just really getting started here. So we're by no means, uh, at the finish line.

Speaker A: Well, we talked a lot about private equity and unit economics and KPIs. And for some of you that were like, maybe your head's spinning, that's okay. We've all been there. And so for the fitness and wellness operators who want to chat more about that around cash visibility and cash flow, unit economics, uh, build out planning, we chatted about that. And real estate decisions and even your capital strategy to make sure that your entire portfolio, or maybe that single unit, uh, the decisions that you're making are defensible. They're the right decisions. Make sure to check me out@strategic.com or just shoot me a DM on LinkedIn. I'm pretty active there. Um, this has been another episode of the Owner's Seat podcast. I'm your host, Albert Ramos. We had Joe Meglio on. Had such a blast. Thank you sir, for jumping on and these episodes. If you didn't know if this was your first time tuning in, we drop episodes every Monday day and Friday at 8aM Central. Can't wait to release this one. Joe, such a pleasure. Thank you so much for your time and congrats. Uh, man, the best is yet to come.

Speaker B: Thank you, man. I appreciate this. I'm looking forward to doing it again soon.

Speaker A: Sounds good. Talk to you soon. Thanks, everybody.

Speaker B: Bye.