He Built Brands for L'Oréal and Honda, Then Bet on His Own | Jonathan Singer | The Owner Seat

Speaker A: Welcome back to the Owner's Seat podcast. Most founders fall in love with their product. The best ones fall in love with the experience their customer actually has. Then build a business around it. My guest today has spent 25 years doing exactly that for some of the biggest brands in the world. And now he's doing it for himself. Jonathan Singer has been engineering genuine brand experiences since 1999. He got his start at McCann, then launched GMR Marketing's Canadian business and had it profitable. Listen to this. In year one, working with brands like TD Bank, l', Oreal, Virgin, Volkswagen and the infamous Google, he went on to found jscm. Um, Jonathan Singer, Experience Marketing where he helped pioneer the experiential agency landscape in North America. From there he ran brand experience at Subnation, across gaming, fashion and entertainment and led the global brand experience practice at Winston Francois. He served on the board of LASD Foundation. And yes, he, he's a McGill man. Today, Jonathan is the founder and CEO of the Red Light Wellness Company. You're going to hear that name a lot. It's based in Miami beach and the idea is simple and hard at the same time. Take a professional grade red light therapy which is mostly live behind premium price tags and make it accessible to regular people like you and I who want to take control of their health span. He calls his opportunity philosophy the cultural currency. Think of this, the five Cs, culture, connection, community, diversion and commerce. It's the same belief that ran through his whole agency career. That community is the thing every real brand is actually built on. What makes this a great owner seek conversation is that Jonathan is a brand savant building a real world, physical, multi location business. And that means he has to make the experience sing and make the math work at the same time. That's the exact tension all of us, every operator listening to the show lives in. Jonathan, welcome to the owner seat podcast. Sir.

Speaker B: How are you, sir?

Speaker A: Uh, I'm doing excellent. I'm excited to have you on. I'm excited to talk about Red Light, but before we jump in there, you have this track record that is so impressive. I could have added more there and there was. Those were some amazing brands. I mean you spent what, 25 years plus engineering brand experiences going back to McCann, launching GMR, right? You had that profitable in its first year. I mentioned Google, I mentioned L'. Oreal, I mentioned TD. What did uh, what did running an agency P and L that early teach you about the difference between what a brand that looks good and a business that actually makes money?

Speaker B: Well, I think the Most important part of the equation is if you, if you look good, it will help you make money. And when you make money, you look good. So the relationship is direct and also inverted. It's not complicated. If you, if you do the job right and it looks amazing, chances are you will earn a living. If you earn a living and you do well and you're profitable, you definitely look good. So from an entrepreneurial standpoint, if you, if you can accomplish that with your P and L and your, your front, front window, I think you're in good shape.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I see, I see the differentiate a lot out there, especially in the wellness space where someone might have a great product. However, they don't spend a lot of time on the esthetics, the design, the brand messaging. Right. I know there's a lot out there now with, you know, maybe even the, uh, the, the owner, the founder identity out there, the personal branding that's been big on, on social a lot too. All of those things are important. It can't just be even. It can't even just be, oh, I'm great. I know the spreadsheet, I know the business model well. You gotta be able to tell a story because no one knows who you are. And you, you then started jscm, um, Right. And you were pioneering the experiential side of things right across North America, as I mentioned. Gaming, fashion, entertainment. And so when you, when you look back at those brands that you were serving, what, what did you find separated the ones that turned attention, as you're mentioning, like almost monetizing the eyeballs and attention into that real revenue versus those that, yeah, they're just great marketing, they generate buzz, but there's nothing really leading to them making money. What were the key differentiators?

Speaker B: Well, let me, let me answer this in two parts. I'll go back to what you said at the beginning of the question with respect to personal references in the business and, you know, the storytelling of the operation. I call that the red thread. So when you are weaving the fabric of the clothing or the blanket, you want to keep the red thread going through the entire textile piece of fabric. And what I mean by that is there should always be a personal story. There should always be a narrative. And if that narrative is effective, you will carry it through the storytelling process from start to finish. And I think that the credibility and the personal touch that, that adds to the formula or to the recipe validates and offers credibility to the business side of the equation. So part two, in terms of the business, it's Really a careful balance between transactional and contact. I think that from a call to action standpoint, you want to have, you know, uh, E commerce, for example, was the big play for the past 10, 15 years in terms of call to action. And now we're in a situation where we're or also push to retail. I think that, you know, for a long time our goals were always transactional, call to action, E commerce, push to retail to get people into stores.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And you know, as you mentioned a little a few minutes ago, a little earlier, um, that has all culminated into what I call the five C's where we're creating cultural currency through community, um, connection, conversation, like minded people being in the right place at the right time. So we go from transactional to more of a contact scenario. And uh, therein lies the evolution in terms of, you know, turning, turning our attention to creating real revenue as opposed to just buzz.

Speaker A: Right. One thing I've learned about you is you like to get obsessed about the details in a positive way. Like you want to know that the messaging you're going to put out there and the experience you're going to provide is going to be extraordinary. Um, you've even described yourself as obsessed with the details that maybe some others don't see. So as you've moved from serving some of those major brands, like I mentioned, shoot, Google, right. And now to owning a brand, where, where does that obsession show up in the unit economics? The experience of, you know, standing up a wellness studio platform and then have you found that you. Is there anywhere where you just need to let it go and let things happen? Uh, how's that experience been?

Speaker B: Well, thank you for exposing my obsessive compulsive disorder.

Speaker A: Oh, is that a private chat? I'm sorry about that.

Speaker B: I think that, uh, first of all, I think that a lot of my success or accomplishments are attributed to the way I serve brands. And truthfully, owning my own brand is not very different than serving my clients. In fact, it's a little bit easier to own your own brand and be obsessed with the details than it is, you know, serving some of the world's greatest brands. I think that in my case, it's really about participation and getting my hands dirty. You know, everyone always says, roll up your sleeves, you got to get your hands dirty. I was just born that way. I was raised that way. My, my father had me raking the lawn on Sundays in the fall, pick up the leaves, wash the car. I think that, you know, chores as a child turned into getting my hands dirty. As an adult in my own business. And you know, from that personal analogy, it really comes down to training. You know, how I was trained, how I trained my team, what type of operating system you create for the business, both in terms of, you know, downloading an os, in terms of technology, but that applies to human nature and training and uh, you know, hr. And if you, if you bake the right ingredients into the recipe, the outcome will be a great tasting cake.

Speaker A: Got it.

Speaker B: I think that, you know, you also referenced earlier, how do we keep our margins clean when we're so focused on the details? And I think that clean is really the operative word, especially as we move the conversation into the wellness space. Anything to do with your well being, whether it's clinical or lifestyle, the cleanliness of everything, the, the, the gym, the spa, the clinical environment, the operating room, the, the place you go to feel your best needs to be in order. It needs to be a, you know, relatively clean place where you can trust the environment and you're going to relax and, you know, fix things that you want to address as opposed to be in an environment that feels like you can't be yourself and you can't expose yourself and you can't be comfortable. So I think that there's a lot of details in the process, from, you know, cleaning to air temp, to air quality, to climate control to lighting that contribute to, you know, cleanliness in terms of an environment. And, you know, that all comes back to the details. So literally, um, I stay up at night thinking about these things.

Speaker A: I like it. Well, let's switch gears. I really was excited to have you on because people need to know about Red Light Wellness Company. You know, I was, uh, at the time of this recording, ATN's happening in New York and I'm seeing a bunch of posts about Red light. I was, uh, I'm following this brand called Checked out and they do the red light mask and stuff and I'm like, oh my goodness, everyone does not know what's about to come around the corner here. This is exciting. Red Light Wellness Company. Everyone needs to check that out. So you worked on these brands. You started the Red Light Wellness Company. What did you see in the market? I mean, what was going on? What did you see as the pain point in the wellness market that convinced you to say, okay, I need to jump in, this is the right timing, I understand the unit economics. I need to build this because this is what people need.

Speaker B: A great question. I know that your instinct and intuitions play a huge role as a founder if, you know, you get an itch and founders scratch the itch and people who aren't founders, you know, put some cream on and make it go away. So, um, when, when I, you know, got the itch, I kind of felt like it was, you know, being in the right time at the right place and nothing happens by chance, especially how you and I met, which is a fun story for another time.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But our industry, our industry had the perfect storm in place. I felt like the return, return to IRL in real life is a real play on experiential. And when I brought experiential marketing to Canada and we pioneered that in like 1998 with GMR, uh, marketing, and then I went on to, you know, own and operate my own agency, people literally thought that we were saying experimental incorrectly and spellcheck would grab it and want to turn it around. And I was like, no, no, no, it's experiential. It means brand experience. It means what happens live, whether it's online or offline, connecting with an audience in real time. So I think the purple storm was a combination of IRL and experiential coming together with, you know, artificial intelligence, which is arguably one of the greatest technology revolutions ever.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Combined with wellness, which is also the biggest, you know, human social platform, uh, that I, I can remember in my short life. So when you, when you put, you know, brand experience with innovation and healthspan and, well, being together, that was the perfect storm. And I, I just, I felt not only attracted to it, but I felt like I could really raise the bar and make a difference. And red light therapy was my vehicle.

Speaker A: I love it. So the red light wellness company, redwell. And so it's built. And I did a ton of homework. We've obviously had, we've been having a ton of conversations, right. It's, it's actually built around this professional grade red light therapy, which I do want to chat with you about, you know, in the pricing, right. Where it's far more affordable for anyone, anyone that needs experience. And everyone needs to experience this. Right. Because it is true. You go to some of these wellness joints and man, it's obviously serving a certain demographic, which is fine, but there's been a void on maybe the other 80, 90% of the population. Right. That doesn't get to experience this. So I'm curious on your thoughts. Number one, read well from the science perspective, walk us through just the quality professional grade and why is this different than some of the other things that you see? And with high quality, how Are you able to offer it at an affordable price? I think people need to understand just all of the ins and outs and work you've done here over the, I mean, many years to get this right. How are you, how are you solving for all of that?

Speaker B: Let's assume I'm solving for it. Still a little premature, but we will, uh, we will hopefully together accomplish that goal.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: The game plan is actually quite simple. My recent experience consulting in the wellness space was such that I participated in a lot of events and conferences and trade shows over the past few years. And what I found was when you get all the right people in the right place, magic happens. And everybody's drinking the Kool Aid and, you know, we're, we're moving the needle, raising the bar, and it's super effective from an industry standpoint. And what happens after that is we all return to our homes and places of business. And I found that not as many people were really drinking the Kool Aid. And what I mean by that is the awareness was not there. And for those people who were aware, the call to action wasn't there. Where do I find it? How do I use it? What does it do? How can I benefit? And for a marketer, that comes down to something we call white space. And when I looked at the total addressable market, it was magnificent. As you mentioned, we had Medispas, who have memberships and subscription models that are on the higher end of disposable income, attract a certain demographic, and then at the other end of the spectrum, we have online shopping. Whether it's, whether it's, you're buying a product, you haven't touched it, you. It gets to you, you use it, you don't know if it's really the right thing. Is it professional grade? Is it, is it working? So there's a lot of white space in between. So the consumer adoption curve is the roadmap for me in this case. And the early adopters and innovators have all embraced red light therapy. The studies are being done, the results are incredible. And every day or week there's another finding. Result, benefit, and conclusion drawn. So I looked at, I looked at that and decided that as the curve was lending itself to the mass market, we could create a platform and use red light therapy as a vehicle to make wellness more accessible to the 99% as opposed to the 1%. Uh, the, the way in which I plan to keep everything in a healthy state of mind on paper, and, you know, in terms of our experience is really through the incredible amount of social impact. I think that if I could create a successful business that helps people every single day, nothing would make me happier. And I think that that's a pretty good legacy to leave behind. So building a brand with purpose is critical to me. And from a, um, pricing standpoint, if I can keep our costs low and use technology to its best, and staffing costs are low and operating costs are low, I think with a, uh, relatively fair margin, we can be profitable. And so my game plan is to focus on social impact with low cost, high margin, right place, right time, with a vehicle that I believe is flawless in a, uh, very large white space market.

Speaker A: I love it. I want to follow up with that. And, you know, we've spent some conversations together, and you can feel every time I talk to you, I could feel your passion around that social community aspect. I mean, we've talked about how this will impact firefighters, law enforcement, athletes, stay at home, moms out there, right, that need this. I mean, every, anyone that, that can benefit from red light therapy, which I'm a big fan. I nerd out on this stuff. So I really appreciate the passion around the social wellness piece. And we'll get into the details of unit economics here in a little bit, but I want to go back to what you were mentioning earlier around brand messaging and personal story. Why this? Like, where, where does this all come from? Is there something personal that is really tugging at the heartstrings here that is making you go all in here?

Speaker B: Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, I didn't know it was so, so obvious, but being transparent in a case like this only adds, you know, credibility to the story. And, uh, you're right, I am passionate about this, I think, really, for two reasons. One, like I described in our, you know, in, in the last answer, I'm a, I'm a passionate human, both at home and at work. And I always like to find the essence of things and, you know, do what I love. So finding this vehicle that helps people feel better, look good, do good every day was a huge inspiration for me. And I literally became addicted to the product and the segue there is. I had, uh, I had surgery almost a year ago to the day, and it was hip surgery, and the recovery was debilitating. And, you know, although everything went flawlessly, the rehabilitation was a huge challenge. And so I drank my own kool aid and I used red light therapy to heal. And it's not a complicated story. The, the surgeon said, stay out of the pool, the bathtub, no water for eight weeks. And I Used red light therapy every single day for, you know, the 20 minute self prescribed prescription. And when I went for my four week check, uh, the surgeon who's been doing this for a hundred years told me that I was healed. And so, you know, into the pool, hot tub, bathtub I went. And that was attributed to the red light therapy and the wound healing benefits.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So, yeah, I mean, I was, I was walking, hiking, biking a lot faster than I ever imagined. And the, you know, the rehabilitation and rejuvenation from the bone to the scar, a lot of it was attributed to the red light therapy. So there is a personal journey there. I've also met a lot of people who have been, you know, positively impacted by the use of red light therapy. And I just want to share those stories, benefits and results with, you know, as many people as I can. So, um, the businessman in me saw the opportunity and the patient in me benefited from the recovery and that was enough for me.

Speaker A: Amazing. I love that. And I'm sure a lot of people can relate with that and probably didn't even know that it was possible to do any type of healing that way and target inflammation and all of that through red light. I'll tell you, for those out there that can relate to this, I just thought I'm vain. I just thought it was good for skin or something, so I would use it for that. But, uh, you know, I'm getting up there. I'm getting up there in age. I need to start using it more for all these aches and pains.

Speaker B: You look fantastic for 62. I have to.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, exactly, exactly. All right, so let's have some fun with the math. Right? So you're opening up the flagship, which I'm super excited about out, uh, in Miami, which, by the way, I don't know what the heck is going on out there, but there is this wellness boom. Like everyone keeps traveling over there. We have people, and you and I know some similar people that are moving down there. I mean, there's just a lot going on. Wellness tech shoot. I might need a. Nevermind now. I love Houston. I can't, I can't leave Texas, but God, I really want to head out there. So let's talk about unit economics. You know, as you go through this kind of walk us behind the scenes, you don't have to give us, you know, the specific mathematics. Right. This is still private. Walk us through how you're going to build this model with all of this. As you started to think about visits and utilization and like, walk us through that. Because there's a lot of people listening to this one. They're opening. They want to open up location 2310. Or they're also thinking about, wow, I want a franchise or I want to start something. This has been a dream. Walk us through that whole process.

Speaker B: On the math side, it's not simple. Um, I mean, the equation is simple. The application is not simple. I think having a clearly defined, you know, model and strategy is critical. The simple part is I've divided it into three pillars. The not simple part is executing and operationalizing those pillars, which is where you come in. The, The. The first one is strategic. It's, you know, operational. It's scalability, it's fundraising, it's finance control. It's, you know, both in terms of where the rubber meets the road and the balance sheet. You need to have a strategy. Second pillar is more economical. It's where you focus on fast validation. It's where you hope to have disciplined growth. And again, in terms of my business, it's low cost, high margin, and how efficient and effective we are in terms of respecting that. And then the third pillar is what I call magnetic. In the world of brand experience, you want to be as magnetic as possible. You want to. You want to have people sticking to your brand as much as possible. And that happens most often when you are emotionally revealing and emotionally rewarding as a company. And so if you can tap into people's emotions and their five senses, you become relatable. And that creates what we call a longevity bridge. And that breeds, you know, through the power of healing, there's a human quest for connection. So the. The magnetic emotional reward becomes relatable. It contributes to longevity, and it's all done through the power of healing and human connection. So from. From strategy to economics to being a magnetic brand, um, that's really the model and the math for us.

Speaker A: Let's talk about that magnetic piece. That's very interesting. Right. I obviously live a lot in the economics and strategic side, and also I want to switch gears here a little bit around the tech piece, because there's a huge differentiator that Redwell is driving here that I don't think anyone's doing right now. They're talking about it, but no one's far along the process like you have been since you've been in the details,

Speaker B: as we were mentioning.

Speaker A: But that experience piece, uh, that's. That's, you know, one thing that I've learned about Wellness Studios is utilization or repeat visits are the thing. Right. We have to get that Down. You just mentioned something about the five senses that piqued my interest because, you know, we'll get into tech here. A lot of people are going all in on the tech side or trying to and adopt and execute and all of that. And things are constantly changing. But what I'm finding is people. And why I think this is going to be a huge success is people are still longing, more so than ever before, thirsting for community and that human feel. The five senses. Can you go back to that? Like, walk us through. If, if one were to walk into a Redwell, like what, what would they experience as far as the five senses? I think that's important to touch on

Speaker B: the, the bottom line, there is captivation and credibility. The aura that you create, the fragrance in the air, the dimness of the light, the texture of the furniture, the uniforms of the staff, the, uh, background music, everything contributes to your first impression. And your first impression should be your lasting impression. So all of the science around brand experience culminates with the connection that you make with the customer. And most importantly is the lasting impression. If you walk into an environment where there are two brands that compete with each other and one of them, you know, is one, you know, and you look at the other one and it makes you smile because there's humor in the delivery or the message the next day when you need to buy a product and you think of those two brands, the one that made you smile is certainly going to resonate. So at the end of the day, my entire business was built around a quote that says, they may forget what you say, but they will never forget how you made them feel. I don't think there's a business on earth where that simple quote can't be applied.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So true. That's kind of how I tie it all together.

Speaker A: Yeah. And as you were explaining that, by the way, I mean it's, it's so true. We're, we're living in our phones and computers and chatbot prompting. And as you're experiencing the lighting and the sound, I'm a big sensory experience guy. By the way, when you say, uh, smell, I'm like, oh, I need something good. I have a, I have a very sensitive smell. And uh, that sounds amazing. And then you tie it and then you weave it in with what you're doing around AI and how you can hyper personalize these treatments, these experiences. Can you walk us through your plans there around the tech side and one, how that's actually going to lower costs. Right. We were talking about high quality. Right. But low cost, great experience, extraordinary experience. How do you do that and what are your thoughts there around using AI to do that?

Speaker B: The AI component is in one way, it's massive in terms of capability. The intellectual capacity of AI is astronomical, as we all know. Um, but on the flip side, it's actually quite simple. The development team that I'm working with is focusing very much on, on having personalized experiences that answer specific questions that are inputted by the customer. And the idea is to routineize the experience, demonstrate results through the human benefit that solves whatever the issue was. So in layman's terms, if, if and when somebody joins Redwell and goes online to learn more and, and book time with us, the first thing that they'll be asked is where does it hurt? What's the problem? What's your issue today? And whether it's wound management and surgical like in my case, or whether it's vanity and age lines in your face in your case. We are going to address those concerns and we are going to create an analysis of your treatment and your journey. And AI is going to provide the powerful engine to create a, a personalized experience and treatment plan whereby red light therapy can support whatever clinical mission each user is on. And the ultimate result is a habitual positive experience and return. Because red light therapy is its most effective when consistently used and our business will be most effective and profitable when consistently used. So there is certainly a parallel between, you know, what our business strategy is and how we're operationalizing our mission.

Speaker A: One of the things, you know, as I hear you talk about that, I think, and I know this is probably not the best way to say it, but I always say when there's something good out there, when we figured it out, I call it like the blood in the water and then the sharks smell it, right? The sharks are going to come in and they're going to try to repeat it, right? And they're going to try to steal the concept. So as I think about your amazing experience and the equipment, right, which we haven't even touched on, um, I mean the equipment is phenomenal and how you figure that out as well as the build out costs, all of those things, right, uh, scalable, repeatable. What part of the Redwell experience is the real moat where you feel like, yeah, I mean this, they may try to compete or even replicate, but it's going to take them a long time. You've been doing, you've been at this for quite some time. What's that moat for you? What's that Differentiator.

Speaker B: I talk about four defensive tactics to defend our uniqueness, to defend the intellectual property of what we're creating. Although it's not a technical, it's not technically ip, but experientially speaking, I'd like to refer to it as unique. And the uniqueness is born out of four things. One is the design of everything that we will offer from the professional grade, medical grade machinery and red light therapy equipment, the environment that we're creating. The architecture will be second to none in terms of, you know, our space. And the process that people follow will be, you know, design inspired, going back to the five senses. So I think design, decor, branding, everything that is, you know, tangible will have a very, very strong design element, aesthetic and, you know, creative orientation. Uh, the second is devotion. We, my team and everyone that will bring Redwell to market are completely devoted to the mission, to the cause, to the benefit and to the proliferation of this incredible wellness technology. Third is development. From a development standpoint, yes, we want to have dozens of stores, spaces where we, you know, offer redwell to the 99%. We want to make wellness accessible and that that will come through the development of the brand, the development of the real estate, the development of future partnerships. So everything in the world of growth and business development is, is going to be critical. And then the third is the deal. M. The deal needs to stay strong, people. You know, if, if our foundation is access, we need to make sure that we're in the right place. We're going to be open 12 hours a day. The price is going to be, you know, affordable and everything to do with the deal is going to be strikingly impressive and inviting. So between the design, our devotion, the development of the concept and the deal we're offering is really the, you know, the not so secret formula on how we hope to stay unique and just grow it in our own way.

Speaker A: Love it. I love those. I mean, you're, you're dropping a ton of gems from the pillars earlier, the strategic pillars, to those pieces around. Right. Uh, the moat and then your five Cs. I got a lot going on here. I don't come from the marketing world, so this is really, really good. And I'm going to steal this. I know everyone tuning in is going to as well. This is so good. Now let's talk, let's get back into dollars, right? And I think a lot of people are going to really relate with this if they're thinking about it, if they've gone through it or going through it again, capital raising Right. So you're in this moment of capital raising right for this physical brick and mortar, early stage concept, this proof of concept. Walk us through this entire experience. You've had so many conversations. What have you learned? What's the feedback you're getting, and how does that make you better every single time as you go? And you've been pitching this and now you've gathered a ton of interest. People want to inject and be a part of this. But from start to now, how has that process been?

Speaker B: See this gray.

Speaker A: It got grayer.

Speaker B: I wasn't there 11 months ago. The. It's a. I mean, that's such a great question. And I don't want to diminish the value of the question with such a quick answer, but there is. There is a really huge obstacle hurdle that founders face. And the, the hard part for me, in terms of my red thread and my personal journey, my narrative needs to include the fact that my entire career as a marketing guy, as an agency side marketer, as opposed to client side, is that I was always offered a budget to create a campaign. And so the work that I did, you know, in most cases met the budget. In some cases we were under. In some cases we were a little over. But at the end of the day, money was given to me and I made really cool stuff happen. As a founder, no one's handing you anything. There is, there is, um, an idea, there is a model, there is a plan, there is funding. And all of these things, you know, need to come together or you don't have your opportunity. And the opportunity is not the end of the story. There's something called proof of concept. And that, for me, is proving to be very much the hurdle. Because of the old expression chicken and egg. There are a lot of people that want to see, you know, the first red well in operation, and then they want to, you know, contribute and be part of it and partner and invest. And those commitments have already been made. But they want to see proof of concept. On the flip side, I can't get proof of concept up and running until there is an injection of funds so that we can find the right real estate, train the right team, bring in the equipment, package the whole thing and go to market. So the chicken and egg, um, is probably the biggest learning curve for me how to approach that. And there was a, uh, there was another question that you and I talked about, which I think just segues very well into this one, if you don't mind throwing it in. And that is the only way I'm going to be able to achieve. My proof of concept is the team that I build around me. And, you know, the reason you and I became friends is you are an expert in your space. And I'd like to think I'm an expert in my space. So my chocolate and your peanut butter are required for the, for the, the outcome and getting the right people on your team. You know, as a quarterback, I need to have all the key players to complete the play. And that, that goes from board of advisors to, you know, outside mentors to, you know, staff who are willing to come on and help, you know, get the ball down the down, across the line, even before there's revenue. So I want to really credit the importance of having, you know, I'm a marketing guy. I've been building brands my entire career. I need a finance guy, I need a strategy person, I need an operations person, I need a technology person. Um, I definitely need a lawyer. And all of, all of these, all of these requirements are not met by me alone. So I just think there's a lot of credit that needs to be associated to the people that you associate with and share your plan with and that you can, you know, sell them and convince them in. In a way that is, you know, motivating both in terms of the business and the, the story, the narrative. So I just, I really want to just pay tribute to that. Proof of concept is critical, and I don't think I would ever be where I am today without, you know, the amazing people that I have committed to supporting Redwall.

Speaker A: I love that, and I think it's a good lesson for us all right? As, uh, entrepreneurs and founders, there's the passion, the ambition, but then there's a, like, you can't go at it alone. Right? I feel like I always read about that is, uh, a lot of these founders that become super successful realize there was some inflection point either at the beginning or somewhere along the journey and said, wow, I need. I can't wear all these hats. It's, it's. It's not scalable, it's not possible. And I'm, um. It's going to lead to burnout. I've seen your investment pitch deck. I've seen the, the board and the advisors, y', all, uh, I'm telling you, you're going to hear this name a lot. Redwell. The names, and I can't name, but the names that are on there are so impressive. They clearly see this need, this pain point in the wellness market that Redwell is solving and Will solve. And so super excited about that. Love the shout out to your squad there, Jonathan. Uh, I think it's awesome. And, uh, that's difficult, right? This is your baby, this is your passion. You have the vision to stop, pause, and trust those that you're chatting and you're having a ton of conversation, but finally to say, yeah, this person needs to be a part of this story. I think that's really cool. And I know many out there, um, have either gone through that and can relate or you will. And this is a great lesson. Pause and stop to think about where are the areas that you need some cover, some firepower, as Jonathan mentioned, maybe that's legal, maybe that's finance, maybe that's ops or what have you. So, but this flagship. Let's go, let's go back to this flagship shift. In the plan, you roll this out, you roll out the proof of concept. You then want to target a ton of cities and get this thing scaling. What you know, what's going to make you comfortable, what's going to make you feel confident to say, okay, the systems are there, the numbers are there. I now feel, speaking of trust, I now feel great about trusting someone else to run this in another city and trust that it will perform what needs to be true in order for that to happen for you.

Speaker B: This is where my disease comes full circle. We're going to end with where we started. The, uh, the devil's in the details. And my, my grand slam will be our brand. And our brand will only be what I envision it to be. If we sweat the little things and if the details are there, we will achieve brand perfection. And if we achieve brand perfection, people will come looking for us. Uh, when they get there, we will make them feel better than they did before they arrived. And, you know, from, from the Kool Aid analogy at the beginning to the white space, to the concept through operate, operationalizing it, the output of social benefit combined with brand experience. If we can replicate this brand in different markets to help people all over the place, I really believe that the, the trust will be there. And if we can create this roadmap and this blueprint, I think we'll all be in good shape.

Speaker A: Well, I don't know if you all caught it out there, but that was like a, uh, freaking masterclass, like, marketing genius. I saw what you did there, Jonathan, and how you weave that all together in the story. I was like, I could feel my whole body, like, caving in. I'm like, I will do whatever you say, Jonathan. Like, that was really good. I'm so excited for you. This was amazing. Like I said, I think people are going to be really excited as they hear your, your brand name far more the red light wellness company redw going to be seeing it all over. So I think this is exactly. I'm pumped because I think this is what the owners listening to this, the franchisors, the franchisees need to be chatting about, especially because we talk a lot about finance on this podcast. But the marketing side, the brand messaging, it is so important, if not even the most important. So for those Jonathan that want to reach out to you, connect with you, pick your brain or be a part of this journey of Redwell, how can they reach out to you?

Speaker B: Uh, email's the best. Uh, Jonathan. Ah. Com.

Speaker A: Amazing. I love it. We did talk a lot about unit economics and some of the math. So if you're a fitness, wellness or longevity operator, franchisor or franchisee who's looking for that CFO level clarity, Financial modeling, capital raise prep. We talked about that. Private equity or family office readiness? Bank readiness, Unit economics. Feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn or@strategic.com and uh, yeah, this has been another episode of the Owner Seat podcast. As always, I'm your host, Albert Ramos, and if this is your first time tuning in, all of our episodes drop every Monday and Friday at 8aM Central. Jonathan, such a pleasure. Thank you so much.

Speaker B: Thank you for having me.

Speaker A: And you're going to crush it. Keep it up.

Speaker B: I appreciate you.

Speaker A: Thanks everybody.