Heather Wood @ GOODLES

1 - > SPEAKER_01: This is the Omnichannel Marketer, the show 2 - > where we get real about what it takes to build a brand, create a 3 - > seamless omnichannel experience, and drive customer LTV across 4 - > B2C, Amazon, and retail. 5 - > I'm Kate Stevens, the CEO of Bridge. 6 - > Join me for unfiltered conversations from the trenches 7 - > of e-commerce. 8 - > We'll unpack strategy and leave you with tactical advice you can 9 - > use today to drive your business forward.

10 - > Let's rock and roll. 11 - > Hi everyone. 12 - > Welcome back to another episode of the Omnichannel Marketer. 13 - > This is your host, Kate Stevens.

14 - > Today I'm so excited to have Heather Wood, SVP of Marketing 15 - > at Goodles. 16 - > Hi, Heather. 17 - > Hi, Kate. 18 - > Thanks for having me.

19 - > I'm thrilled to have you. 20 - > So tell me, Heather, a little bit about your career journey 21 - > and what led you to Goodles. 22 - > SPEAKER_00: Well, I studied nutrition and food systems 23 - > management. 24 - > And I've always primarily been in the food industry.

25 - > I did a couple of years in the agency world, specializing in 26 - > graphic design and marketing. 27 - > But the bulk of my career in the early days I spent uh working in 28 - > organic produce, which was an incredibly, you know, taxing and 29 - > fun industry. 30 - > It was sort of trial by fire for earlier years in my career. 31 - > But in between produce and Goodles, I did a stop over a 32 - > year in the craft coffee industry, which was sort of a 33 - > great bridge from a commodities-driven business into 34 - > consumer packaged goods.

35 - > And then I was connected to Jen, the co-founder of Goodles, um, 36 - > after a year in craft coffee. 37 - > And I made the switch and have been here for the last five 38 - > years. 39 - > So amazing. 40 - > SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I am a parent of a four-year-old and 41 - > a two-year-old.

42 - > So we are, you know, very much Goodles customers and love, love 43 - > the product. 44 - > But could you tell, you know, for those who might not be 45 - > familiar with Goodles, what is Goodles? 46 - > How are you guys positioned in the market? 47 - > SPEAKER_00: Sure.

48 - > So we are a better for you mac and cheese company. 49 - > We say mac and cheese, but you know, we also are generally a 50 - > noodle and pasta company. 51 - > So we also have a line of dry pasta products in addition to 52 - > our mac and cheese product line. 53 - > We innovated this product to have mass appeal, right?

54 - > So rather than sort of picking a niche marketing trend to 55 - > formulate our product against, we rent like the mass market 56 - > route. 57 - > So we basically dialed up the nutrition in this product to 58 - > make it as nutrient-dense as we possibly could without affecting 59 - > the eating experience. 60 - > So it's the yum plus nutrition, is what we always call it. 61 - > And it's selling like hot cakes.

62 - > It seems to have struck a chord with a lot of consumers in 63 - > really just going straight at the need of the product that's 64 - > being consumed in mass every day in the market rather than sort 65 - > of going after niche dietary trends or or or marketing 66 - > positioning for food products. 67 - > SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you spoke to the mass strategy. 68 - > You're you know very much going up against these massive 69 - > incumbents like crafts and annies. 70 - > Um, what does it take to, you know, build a brand to go after 71 - > such large incumbents?

72 - > SPEAKER_00: I always say it takes a lot of heart, right? 73 - > Because out of the gate, we're not gonna have the same sort of 74 - > marketing budget and the deep pockets that they have to go 75 - > after traditional advertising. 76 - > They'll beat us every day on, you know, buying keyword 77 - > searches and doing massive national campaigns. 78 - > So, you know, we have to be nimble, we have to be creative, 79 - > we have to be authentic.

80 - > And I think more than anything else, we had to make sure that 81 - > our product and our brand was dialed in before we launched, 82 - > that our consumers' first experience with our brand and 83 - > product was a positive one rather than rushing to market 84 - > and then, you know, we'll reformulate later and optimize 85 - > later. 86 - > No, we spent a full year formulating the product and 87 - > laboring over every single detail and touch point of the 88 - > brand before we launched to make sure that our first impression 89 - > in the market was a good one.

90 - > SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I really feel like Goodals is this 91 - > brand that people love. 92 - > How have you helped build that emotional connection as a brand? 93 - > SPEAKER_00: Well, I would say we don't go at it with the 94 - > intention of sort of manufacturing an emotional 95 - > connection. 96 - > I think we take a much more vulnerable approach to it.

97 - > You know, our co-founders both have marketing and brand 98 - > backgrounds, which I am extremely grateful for, both 99 - > because it makes my job easier and because I've learned so much 100 - > from them. 101 - > But we really labored over every single decision. 102 - > I can remember spending three hours on Zoom meetings sometimes 103 - > with our Pantone books and laboring over every single color 104 - > choice, really deeply debating every single message and claim 105 - > that we put on pack or what you don't see on pack was also very 106 - > intentional.

107 - > And really genuinely just had a love for that process because 108 - > all of us were so passionate about it. 109 - > I think, you know, it's been a large part of my job to make 110 - > sure that we maintain that passion in our work and a 111 - > culture that fosters that. 112 - > And I really think that that approach shows in the work. 113 - > I mean, there are times where I can go back and kind of look at 114 - > our channels and feeds and see, like, ooh, we were really 115 - > stressed that year because we were scaling big timers.

116 - > And I think it, think it and just sort of subconsciously 117 - > shows. 118 - > And when there's really fun times happening in the company 119 - > and we're really having, you know, a good time sort of being 120 - > creative and putting work out into the world that feels 121 - > genuinely like us, I think it's resonating with people. 122 - > SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 123 - > Um, let's talk a little bit about, you know, that scale.

124 - > So I think Goodles quickly went from D to C to launching major 125 - > retail to over 35,000 doors now. 126 - > What did that transition from D to C to retail look like? 127 - > And how has the business evolved over that transition? 128 - > SPEAKER_00: You're asking me to go back like four years, but it 129 - > definitely was memorable.

130 - > Uh, we uh that decision was kind of made for us very quickly 131 - > because it happened so early in the business, right? 132 - > So both because it was our biggest opportunity and because 133 - > we were so small when we made that decision that a lot of our 134 - > the sort of the realities of the business in making the switch 135 - > were just sort of decided for us, right? 136 - > We didn't have a bunch of marketing dollars and trade 137 - > spend to play with when we made that switch to retail.

138 - > So it was the clearest path to the immediate scale we were 139 - > looking for. 140 - > And then those sort of like budget dollars got allocated for 141 - > us because they were so limited back then. 142 - > SPEAKER_01: So uh effectively a you know, large retail partner 143 - > presented itself and you're like, okay, we're gonna do this. 144 - > Is that kind of how it happened?

145 - > SPEAKER_00: There was a go or no-go moment that I remember 146 - > very shortly after we launched the website, and um, it was 147 - > Target. 148 - > Target was our first retail partner, and they wanted to go 149 - > nationwide immediately, which was really amazing because back, 150 - > I mean, I think it's a little more common now because they've 151 - > realized how impactful these new brands can be for their 152 - > strategy. 153 - > But back then it was still kind of unheard of to sort of be 154 - > pre-launch and having that kind of conversation with a 155 - > nationwide retailer.

156 - > So there was a go or no-go moment where we knew we had to 157 - > put all our chips in to meet those first POs from Target and 158 - > get on shelves, but we did it. 159 - > And it's been gangbusters since then. 160 - > It's incredible. 161 - > SPEAKER_01: So now your true omnichannel brand, you know, 162 - > sold across multiple different types of retailers.

163 - > Amazon, are you guys on Amazon? 164 - > Yes. 165 - > Amazon, D2C, what role does D2C still play, if anything, you 166 - > know, your role as an omnichannel brand? 167 - > SPEAKER_00: We use our D2C channel primarily to stay in 168 - > touch with our community.

169 - > So just being able to segment our consumers and drive them 170 - > into retail to stay in touch with them, convert them into 171 - > being our most passionate brand promoters. 172 - > We just launched a program last year called Gooddles Clubhouse 173 - > that is a segment of our super brand promoters, and we're 174 - > always doing really fun activities in the background 175 - > with them and sending them out into the world promoting the 176 - > brand. 177 - > So D2C really is just it's community driven for us.

178 - > We still get a lot of organic search traffic coming to the 179 - > website too. 180 - > So I think just an experiential moment for the brand to educate 181 - > people on the product and who we are and then pull them into the 182 - > funnel. 183 - > SPEAKER_01: Do you find that, you know, the shoppers on D2C 184 - > are similar or different than your customers shopping you on 185 - > Amazon or retail? 186 - > SPEAKER_00: Demographically speaking, all the research you 187 - > know we've been doing for our retail consumers, they're 188 - > they're pretty consistent.

189 - > It's across the board. 190 - > Yeah. 191 - > SPEAKER_01: And so that the D2C is really just those those 192 - > loyalists that you are learning from and building that 193 - > community. 194 - > Yes.

195 - > Just thinking a little bit about launching channels. 196 - > What is a recent channel that you you guys have launched and 197 - > why did you launch it? 198 - > And you know, how did you think about launching a new channel? 199 - > You mean revenue or just like comms or social?

200 - > Yeah, revenue, you know, i.e. 201 - > like a distribution partner, like maybe have you guys done 202 - > TikTok shop or maybe a new retailer. 203 - > SPEAKER_00: So TikTok shop, I think we dabbled in a little bit 204 - > a couple of years ago.

205 - > It just didn't make sense for us for what our product is, right? 206 - > Yeah, that makes sense. 207 - > SPEAKER_01: I mean, like it's not really how you buy pasta or 208 - > like, you know, mac and cheese. 209 - > No, it's really a it's a grocery product.

210 - > Like that makes sense. 211 - > SPEAKER_00: Right. 212 - > So I think, you know, it wasn't recent, but I think Amazon is 213 - > kind of a good anecdotal topic for us. 214 - > You know, we I think whenever you're approaching launching a 215 - > new revenue channel, all the, you know, old habits die hard to 216 - > looking at efficiency of scale and margins and all those 217 - > things.

218 - > And I think we just because we were so, you know, such a small, 219 - > scrappy team, we gave ourselves permission to say, you know 220 - > what, we need to be on Amazon as a point of discovery. 221 - > And we don't need to stress too much about what the metrics 222 - > there look like. 223 - > Obviously, we kind of set it and forget it to be as efficient as 224 - > it can be right now. 225 - > And then I think allow it to just be a point of discovery for 226 - > the brand and know that it's an opportunity for us to dig into 227 - > as it becomes strategically important from a business 228 - > perspective.

229 - > SPEAKER_01: Let's shift over to retail and you know how you guys 230 - > think about retail. 231 - > You mentioned you were effectively a pre-launch brand, 232 - > um, launching into Target. 233 - > What does it take for emerging brands today to be successful at 234 - > retail? 235 - > SPEAKER_00: You're at, I wish we were here with my VP of retail 236 - > marketing because she's incredible and so much more 237 - > well-versed in this topic.

238 - > You know, she does a lot of work in partnering with our sales 239 - > team to take incredibly good care of all of our retail 240 - > partners. 241 - > We plan out for the year, we make sure that everything's sort 242 - > of ticking and tying against our distribution forecast and making 243 - > sure that, you know, we're keeping a close eye on 244 - > velocities at all times. 245 - > But I think on from the side that I can speak to, especially 246 - > being so involved in it early on, and still today it comes up 247 - > all the time, is how important your packaging is.

248 - > I think people love to talk about packaging and think about 249 - > packaging from a fun perspective, and they just sort 250 - > of, you know, think through kind of trends and design and 251 - > messaging that are in the market versus, you know, we really 252 - > approached our architecture with a timeless strategy in mind. 253 - > So anything you see on PAC is really intentional to sort of 254 - > live through the fleeting trends that we're seeing come through 255 - > faster and faster in today's day and age.

256 - > But it's the biggest and best billboard in advertising for 257 - > your brand on consumer surveys. 258 - > It's still our number one reported point of discovery for 259 - > the brand. 260 - > So investing early on in all of those decisions and everything 261 - > that's going and involved in your packaging has paid off for 262 - > us in spades, and I think super important on the retail shelf. 263 - > What do you think is something that people get wrong on the 264 - > packaging side?

265 - > My executive creative director partner would say that I'm gonna 266 - > get on my soapbox about it. 267 - > I think it's probably because of my nutrition background, but I 268 - > think people think in terms of what I call fleeting dietary 269 - > trends and rely on that way too much. 270 - > It's moving, it's moving so fast now. 271 - > People are busy adding fiber claims to their box right now.

272 - > I promise you, the next thing is gonna be like micronutrients and 273 - > how important vitamins and minerals are for your body to 274 - > absorb, you know, the nutrients from the food we're eating. 275 - > That these things are moving really fast. 276 - > So I think relying on fleeting trends on packaging, especially 277 - > when it's such an expensive and cumbersome work stream to impact 278 - > each, right? 279 - > I think, you know, doing that work up front and kind of 280 - > setting yourself up to be able to speak to the trends as they 281 - > come through.

282 - > If you've formulated your product thoughtfully, then do 283 - > the same for your packaging. 284 - > SPEAKER_01: Makes complete sense. 285 - > So you mentioned the importance of community and you know, how 286 - > you're building community. 287 - > How, how do you think about growing community, cultural 288 - > moments, you know, all of that supporting Goodle's growth 289 - > strategy?

290 - > SPEAKER_00: I think the question that always comes up with 291 - > community is how do you scale it? 292 - > And we tend to think of our community in the opposite, 293 - > right? 294 - > We don't think of scaling the touch points we have with our 295 - > consumers or the number of touch points we're having with our 296 - > consumers. 297 - > We focus on the quality of engagement we're having with our 298 - > community.

299 - > So even if it's a small one or a slow growing community, the 300 - > quality of engagement we're having with them is more 301 - > important to scale, even though it's hard for us to measure that 302 - > and report back on it. 303 - > It shows up obviously in your sales. 304 - > So that sort of like faith and trust in believing that if 305 - > you're having really quality engagement with your passionate 306 - > brand promoters, they're doing the scale for you out in the 307 - > world.

308 - > Word of mouth is still, you know, a massive deliverer for 309 - > us. 310 - > It's right under discovery on shelf for how consumers are 311 - > discovering our brand is through word of mouth. 312 - > So it's it's really important. 313 - > And, you know, the good old clubhouse that I mentioned just 314 - > a minute ago is how we're staying in touch with them for 315 - > the most part.

316 - > They are in a recent brand survey we did, we did the first 317 - > touch in September, the second touch a couple weeks ago. 318 - > So I'm not through all the data yet, but there was a huge 319 - > statistically significant jump in word of mouth being a point 320 - > of discovery for our brand since we launched that clubhouse. 321 - > So that being able to at least have sort of some anecdotal, if 322 - > not totally causationally proved out, but we can assume that a 323 - > lot of that work we're putting into quality of engagement is 324 - > delivering against, you know, our top of funnel awareness 325 - > strategy.

326 - > Makes complete sense. 327 - > SPEAKER_01: Okay, so shifting into everyone's favorite topic 328 - > right now, AI, and how it is changing the way that we all 329 - > work. 330 - > How is it changing the way your marketing team is operating? 331 - > Where are you seeing some of the biggest opportunities today?

332 - > SPEAKER_00: It's not changing much for us, to be honest. 333 - > We are a creative-driven brand first. 334 - > We have never had an agency that we outsource our creative to. 335 - > We've always done it in-house, and it's something we're really 336 - > precious about and passionate about and love getting to work 337 - > on.

338 - > So I think there were a few moments early on in the business 339 - > where we outsource some of our creative and it gave us all 340 - > hives. 341 - > So we try not to do it at all anymore. 342 - > Even though people are so talented and do amazing work 343 - > when it doesn't feel like us, we just can't do it. 344 - > So we keep it all in-house.

345 - > And AI obviously certainly doesn't feel any better. 346 - > If anything, it feels worse than outsourcing creative to an 347 - > agency. 348 - > Um, so it doesn't impact what we do creatively in the world. 349 - > We use it very, very sparingly.

350 - > So maybe, for example, on the creative side, we'll set up and 351 - > do a whole world shoot for a new flavor we're launching on our 352 - > mac and cheese line. 353 - > And we hire prop stylists and food stylists, and they create 354 - > mini worlds with all sorts of fun little props and we have 355 - > storytelling in the shot. 356 - > Maybe we will take, you know, we will layer an AI effect over it 357 - > where rather than just capturing one still image, we'll sort of 358 - > be able to make it look like we're punching into frame on it 359 - > or something of the like.

360 - > Right. 361 - > But there's still worlds and everything that we are building, 362 - > you know, with care and passion. 363 - > On the work stream side, we've tried out a few tools that just 364 - > help make our lives easier as employees, kind of get back some 365 - > of the time that we would otherwise be spending deleting 366 - > 30 junk emails a day, right? 367 - > Have an AI email agent that sort of filters through your email 368 - > for you.

369 - > So at the end of the day, you can kind of quickly respond to 370 - > everything that needs to be responded to. 371 - > It just makes us more efficient and gives us back quality time. 372 - > SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course. 373 - > From a kind of like lessons learned perspective, is there 374 - > any bold marketing bet that you've made that you feel like 375 - > has really paid off?

376 - > SPEAKER_00: Yes. 377 - > Well, so like I mentioned earlier when we made the 378 - > transition to retail, we decided to just turn off all paid media. 379 - > It was happening right around the same time as the iOS updates 380 - > where meta-ads were going haywire and everyone was like, 381 - > what is going on? 382 - > So we just made the bold decision to turn it off 383 - > altogether and say, we're gonna go all in on investing in our 384 - > retail presence and finding consumers that way.

385 - > And even though it feels scary to do that because we don't have 386 - > a direct, you know, link to those consumers, we had to kind 387 - > of just put all our faith and trust in that and make sure that 388 - > we set ourselves up for success on the retail side. 389 - > And it paid off. 390 - > It was very scary at the time because obviously we were 391 - > running ads in the very beginning days to drive to D2C. 392 - > And that was a way we could tell that something we were doing was 393 - > working and at retail longer, but it paid off.

394 - > SPEAKER_01: That is a that is a bold and scary bet that is 395 - > definitely clearly, clearly paid off. 396 - > What is your view of where the CPG industry is going over the 397 - > next three to five years? 398 - > SPEAKER_00: Well, I hope it's going in the direction I would 399 - > like to see more brands like girls that approach their 400 - > formulation, you know, with the value of nutrition to the 401 - > consumer in mind. 402 - > So really just deliver I think it's becoming more true, even 403 - > with, you know, everything that's going on with GLP1s, that 404 - > nutrient density is becoming a really important part of the 405 - > conversation and, you know, intentional clean ingredients 406 - > and making sure that per calorie you're delivering a nutritive 407 - > value.

408 - > So I'm hoping that we see more products in the market. 409 - > I think we already are, but I'm hoping that it starts to turn 410 - > away from marketing-driven innovation on the product side 411 - > to true nutritive value on the innovation side. 412 - > SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I um I agree. 413 - > I think that that's better for everyone.

414 - > And as we think about, you know, the better for you category in 415 - > general. 416 - > If listeners take one action away from this episode, what 417 - > would you want it to be? 418 - > Oh, that's a good question. 419 - > SPEAKER_00: Probably not anything I've discussed so far, 420 - > but I'm feeling really sappy right now because of how much 421 - > fun we're having in the office together lately.

422 - > But I think stop and thank your team. 423 - > Take a moment, celebrate the wins. 424 - > This is a long road. 425 - > I've been at it for five years.

426 - > Most of my marketing team has been here for at least four of 427 - > those as well. 428 - > So to think we've been doing this and sprinting full speed 429 - > for so many years in a row, it's been really nice to take a few 430 - > moments and pause and express gratitude for one another. 431 - > We throw little parties at HQ whenever we launch a new 432 - > product, like really being intentional about pausing and 433 - > thanking everyone for the work that we're doing to make this a 434 - > success is so important as part of this process as a startup.

435 - > SPEAKER_01: I mean, I can very much relate to that. 436 - > It's so easy to just catch yourself sprint after sprint 437 - > after sprint. 438 - > So making sure to, you know, pause and and celebrate, you 439 - > know, how far you've come. 440 - > So as well as, you know, the people who got you there.

441 - > So that's a really great reminder. 442 - > Moving into the final segment of our discussion today, it's our 443 - > lightning round. 444 - > So just you know, quick answers to these questions. 445 - > Favorite omnichannel brand, of course, other than Goodles.

446 - > SPEAKER_00: Yes, I've been living and breathing up and 447 - > cheese. 448 - > So um, I am really excited about Mave Chocolate. 449 - > I met them at Expo. 450 - > They were a few aisles over.

451 - > And since Expo, I have seen them everywhere and in the weirdest 452 - > spots, like the most omnichannel I think ever. 453 - > Because literally last week and I was shopping in downtown Santa 454 - > Cruz here, and I was at a plant shop. 455 - > Literally, all they sell are plants, and I was there buying a 456 - > couple air plants, and I saw Maeve Chocolate by the register. 457 - > I was like, how did they even get in here?

458 - > They're doing such an amazing job. 459 - > I'm interested. 460 - > I don't think I know that brand. 461 - > I'm gonna check them out.

462 - > You should Google. 463 - > Their brand world is amazing. 464 - > Okay, awesome. 465 - > Most underrated growth channel.

466 - > Ooh, kind of of a similar vein. 467 - > I think I'd like to look into something like um boutique 468 - > distribution wholesaler partnership, like a fair. 469 - > I think maybe it'd be really interesting to set up a small 470 - > segment of the business where we could test and trial different 471 - > products that maybe are a little more adventurous than even what 472 - > we're used to. 473 - > I know we push a lot of boundaries here on flavor and 474 - > innovation, but I think we have some really wack-a-doodle ideas 475 - > that would be really fun.

476 - > We could figure out how to set up a segment of the business and 477 - > and trial it in a way that feels really intentional and gets 478 - > really good feedback, like in community small shops and and 479 - > boutique. 480 - > Well, favorite podcaster newsletter. 481 - > Okay, so favorite podcasts, I'm usually listening to true crime, 482 - > which is probably awful. 483 - > My favorite murder, something a little less, you know, scary, 484 - > probably Radio Lab.

485 - > I love Radio Lab. 486 - > Okay. 487 - > Awesome. 488 - > Favorite tool you can't live without the email agent I told 489 - > you about since I installed Fixer in my Gmail.

490 - > It is so easy to clear out my inbox every day. 491 - > Now I don't want to. 492 - > I love that one. 493 - > I use Fixer also.

494 - > Favorite event that you're attending this year. 495 - > Well, Expo was a blast, but now we're all hands-on deck planning 496 - > for our pop-up event in New York that's happening in May. 497 - > Yes. 498 - > We'll do a pop-up shop in Soho, and it's gonna be so much fun.

499 - > We're all very excited about that one. 500 - > Where can people connect with you? 501 - > LinkedIn is great. 502 - > I will get better at checking it.

503 - > I promise. 504 - > LinkedIn is great. 505 - > SPEAKER_01: Um, well, Heather, thank you so much for all of 506 - > your time and insights today. 507 - > I really enjoyed the conversation.

508 - > I am so excited for the pop-up in May and appreciate your time. 509 - > It was great to see you, Kate. 510 - > Thanks for having me. 511 - > Bye.

512 - > If you liked this podcast, follow me and the bridge page on 513 - > LinkedIn and Twitter for hot takes and tactical advice. 514 - > If you really love today's episode, we'd love a review on 515 - > the podcasting platform of your choice, Apple Podcasts or 516 - > Spotify. 517 - > Thanks for listening. 518 - > unknown: Yeah.