Christina Kao @ Le Mini Macaron

Speaker A: Hi everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Omnichannel Marketer. This is your host, Kate Stevens. I'm m very excited to today to welcome Christina Caio, the founder of Le Mini Macaron. Hi Christina, how are you?

Speaker B: Hi Kate. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker A: It's so great to have you. Would love to just start with your personal story.

Speaker B: Yeah, sure. So my background is uh, actually marketing and advertising. I went to school in New York, uh, and I studied marketing and I worked in advertising agencies for the first part of my career. I and then I actually moved to Shanghai and continued in the agency world working in experience marketing and events. So I really had that background of working with creative people with clients and brands and bringing to light their communications and then stint working for a celebrity chef. So that was very interesting detour because I'm curious about the restaurant, food and beverage world. Celebrity chef in Shanghai for a long time and his restaurant group. Really great learnings. Getting a bit the entrepreneurial and startup experience because that's how they were set up. And then um, met my ex boyfriend who is my business partner from then and we met and literally dated for six months and started a business. We didn't intend to start a business or brand. We started to work together in terms of projects and 12 years. So we are her. So we're not a couple anymore but we run the business together and um, have grown the brand bit and are very proud of kind of where we are today.

Speaker A: Amazing. Well, tell me a little bit more about the brand and you know the story there.

Speaker B: Sure. So the brand is limiting macaron. We are a beauty brand specialized in nail products and very specifically gel manicure. For quite a long time our hero product has been the gel manicure kit and it comes with a little mini lamp. So I have one here which is a LED light to dry your nails. So if you're familiar with doing gel manicures like top coat.

Speaker A: Sorry. Actually your, your sounds cutting out. I wonder. Um. Yeah, maybe it's the headphones. Yes, I can hear you. Yeah, it's okay. Great. So why don't we just start back with um. I'll just ask you to tell me about the brand.

Speaker B: So the brand is limiting mackerel. And we are a beauty brand specialized in nail products and very specifically gel manicure products. Our hero product for many years has been the mini gel manicure kit. So if you're familiar with doing salon gel manicures, usually you go in, they have a little LED lamp. This is our LED lamp which is in the shape of a macaron, hence our brand name. Super cute. So you put your finger in, you can dry your gel polish. And then the polish that comes with our set is a three in one. So the formula has base coat, color, top coat altogether. And really designed for people who are new to doing gel at home. Uh, maybe they're familiar with doing it in the salon, but they want to get into diy and we wanted to make something so easy to be able to get into, you know, this kind of application at home. So our mini kits are the bread and butter. Like we've, you know, we're actually turning 10 in January. Um, our brand anniversary. Yeah.

Speaker A: Congratulations. That's exciting.

Speaker B: Thank you. So the hero product is the mini kit. And then we have a range of colors, probably over 100 shades at this point, as well as removal and the nail art accessories. And it really runs the gamut. We have hand masks for moisturizing, serums for your nails, all sorts of nail care. Um, really the full nail routine for whatever you need at home.

Speaker A: So I am a gel. I love gel manicures. Where. And I'm curious about your target customer. Customer. Is it, is it the person who's, you know, explored it in the salon but then wants to do it themselves or where have you found the best customer exists?

Speaker B: Yeah, we actually have been doing some interviews in the last three to four months. We call our loyal customer the Sherry because sherry is darling in French and we're a French American brand. And so we've been interviewing the Cheries to understand how they come into the brand. And we've seen two profiles. One are people who've done gel before. They've already experimented with like a three step gel where your base color topper separate, you have a lot of tools. And then they come into our brand because they feel like it's much more convenient because you don't need all those extra bottles and steps. It's a one step. So we have this profile and they really love the convenience and the time it saves them. And then the second would be someone who's never done it before. They are brand new. Maybe they use air dry, regular polish, but they haven't dabbled in gel. And for those people, you know, it's a step into a different routine. And we, um, spend a lot of time educating to make sure that they have a really good first time experience. But it could be those two profiles. Now we also have some people who are regular salon goers, but then they want to have the little mini kit if they're traveling. So if they want touch ups when they can't get into the salon, it's really convenient.

Speaker A: That makes complete sense. Um, so talk to me a little bit about. You just mentioned that you're about to hit your 10 year anniversary. That's so exciting. Talk to me about where the brand is today from, you know, a revenue distribution perspective.

Speaker B: Sure. So today we are um, we're in the US and we're international. But probably 60% of our businesses in the US we're distributed in retailers like Ulta and Target, Nordstrom, Anthropologie among some others. Target, we have about 630 stores. Ulta, we launched in 265 stores in the nail section with our core products. But we've also been in their uh, checkout section. So you have the minis bin by the checkout area and that's full chain which is 1400. So it's been great to partner with them. And then Nordstrom anthropology cold chain as well. And um, our revenue levels. Well so we're double digit brand as a revenue um, level. And then we also have our international business. So there's Europe, uh, and in US and Europe we have E commerce sites. So there's limiting macaron.com and also EU, we have fulfillment centers in both places. And then international we have distributors as well who handle their own territories. But across Europe there's retailers like ASOS and Zalando which are online and then Sephora in France, some of the department stores in Spain and Italy like El Cord Ingles maybe you've heard of. So there's a mix of retailers across Europe. Douglas, the Pharmacy. So yeah, okay.

Speaker A: And where, you know, so that's where the brand is today. You know, 10 years ago where did you launch the brand? And you know, how did you think about that being the channel that you launched the brand in?

Speaker B: So January 2015 was our launch and we actually did a Kickstarter to begin with. Uh, you know back then it was really popular to kick off a brand that way. And in the first 18 months we did three kickstarters. So it was just an initial way to get going. We can kick off production, launch an initial assortment of colors. And Kickstarter was great because they obviously had their audience so your brand could get, your project could get like uh, awareness through their platform. And that was like a first set of kind of E commerce customers. Right. Because then we launched our website right after. So you can drive them there. But in the early days, you know, the E commerce like uh, industry back in 2015 and 2016, it wasn't as robust. So, you know, I mean, I was thinking the other day, like, what did Facebook ads look like back then? Like, how did Instagram look in 20? I kind of know because I took screenshots back in the day. But it was just really different, you know, how people were using those social platforms. And you know, E Com was a little bit of a slow start for us because we also didn't have a lot of SKUs. We didn't have so many callers. We needed to develop more of an assortment. And so while we did the Kickstarters and did launch an E Comm site, we then, because we were living internationally, I was in Shanghai at the time. Our method was to go to international exhibitions. Kind of an old school way of looking for wholesalers. Right. We would go to like CosmoProf, which is a big beauty, um, trade exhibition. They have it in Bologna and Vegas and Hong Kong. And so we would do that. We did ecrm. I don't know if you've heard of that. Like buyer meetings, you know, so it's kind of like speed dating, 20 minute buyer meetings, but you have like 80 meetings in three days. It's very, um, intense and you're meeting a lot of amazing buyers. So we did ECRM a couple times in Europe and that's actually where we met Ulta back in probably 2017.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: And yeah, it was amazing. And then they gave us the opportunity to launch an Ulta.com at the end of 2017 and those were the channels to look for sales opportunities. Now I think we were thinking more traditional wholesale. We did do some retail back then, but we were living in China. So the retail was like Sephora in China, which is a completely different game. Right. And then I think, uh, we set up shop in Europe and so we started to expand retail in Europe. And pre Brexit, we did a lot with the uk, so there's a number of detail retailers there that we worked with. But then post Brexit, we wound it down a little bit just because it was a bit challenging because you pay wasn't in Europe anymore. And then, um, the focus really turned to the US in 2020 because the pandemic happened, uh, for our business and our category of nail and nail at home, it was very, very fortunate, uh, for us because people were at home, they were looking for solutions for their manicures and they were also like, you know, bored and they were kind of looking for stuff to do. So the learning how to Do a dual manicure. I call it Beauty Entertainment because they were able to do their manicures, but they were also playing and learning how to do something, watching tutorials. And since COVID people got really good at doing their own nails makeup. So it was interesting. Like the consumer just devoured tutorials and became like a prosumer almost. Um, the business kept growing from there. Like we kind of thought after 2020, maybe it'll go down a bit. But it kept growing and we got the opportunity to launch in Target at the end of 2021. So that was great because, um, with the boom on the online side, the retail expansion was very good for the brand then and we were able to kind of invest into more marketing folks and marketing spend activities and uh, inventory as well in those years.

Speaker A: That's like really exciting. And I wonder, you know, I experienced that myself in the Pandemic, you know, really exploring in the beauty tutorial space. Have you continued to lean into that as a brand now? And you know, how does the, how does video and content and influencer, you know, continue to, you know, drive the brand forward?

Speaker B: Definitely. I think with Zoom coming around as something that everyone is used to jumping on Zoom calls and doing master classes with people so that new consumers can learn how to use our products and do a good manicure at home, to doing lives like TikTok lives and Instagram lives that people can, you know, jump on with you and see what's going on. From educating them to just communicating. Hey, here's our holiday launch and these are all the new things that we have coming. Or here are the Black Friday items that are on promo. So really just having this like immediate touch point with the consumer has been amazing. And I think our brand, because education's so critical, if you're not used to doing gel, the first, I know the first time I did gel, I made so many mistakes and that we really want to ensure that people have a great first experience. So I think we're deepening our education and engagement, you know, next year as well, to create more opportunities for people to learn with us.

Speaker A: So this is a, ah, you know, a challenge that we run into with a lot of brands that we chat about on this podcast. So high education product. Um, I'm curious, do you think about that in just the pre purchase that is the acquisition of the customer, educating the customer, why they'd want it, or is it more in making sure that they're using it correctly and effectively?

Speaker B: I think both. Uh, we want to make sure at the point of Purchase, they understand how to use the products. One of the initiatives last year was like the one thing I think people don't know how to do when it comes to gel polish is that it's very, very thick. And when you apply it for the first time, you need to remove everything from your brush. You just like brush it over and over along the neck of the bottle, get it really clean and then you start to apply and you have to apply a very transparent layer. So I love demoing that in person when we do events because then I'm showing them how to do it and then I have them cure it and they, I have them touch it so they see it's instantly dry. All of that, you know, of course you can give them a QR code and watch a video tutorial once they're sitting at home and you hope that they do that. But we have found that, you know, customers kind of want to just jump in. They don't really want to follow instructions. Yeah, they just want to kind of get their hands dirty. Literally like get going. So we actually added a step sticker to the main product last year. So when they open the product, they're breaking through a sticker and it says the number one thing you need to know is this staining thin layers to have long lasting and not having chip nails. And here's a QR code so catching them before they even open the product to make sure you know, they can't miss it. And then all the other QR codes and infographics, instructions that are inside and you know, after they, if they purchase on our website, having an email that goes out right after education while the product is on the way, so many areas to develop, you know, to kind of get to them.

Speaker A: Yeah, um, that makes a lot of sense. So it's like really making a part of the customer's post purchase journey. It's like if you do nothing else, you have to do these things on the education side that makes a lot of sense. So how do you think about, you know, it sounds like these are some of the methodologies, but you have your DTC channel, you have wholesale. So all these retail channels which, you know, your ability to educate is, is a little bit more difficult. How do you think about that? Consistent brand experience across the channels.

Speaker B: Yeah, so with Ulta, uh, we had the opportunity to do virtual trainings and you know, obviously it's not the easiest thing to roll out in a retailer that has just hundreds of stores. But you try to go, I would say step by step. Right. You Try to do what you can. So I visited Chicago about a month ago and went into five or six stores. And with those touch points, we're now doing store trainings of the ones that we've met. And I think that just sinks in more and getting testers into the hands of the store associates so that they become champions of the brand. They know how to use it and you know, their beauty. Um, store associates, like they just love all kinds of products and a lot of them, you know, they have people on their team who are nail techs and you know, influencers. So they're more inclined to learning and getting good at it. So when we have the products in their back room, their break room, they can play with it. So I think rolling this out in a way that's manageable for us to get to more people is one initiative. And um, yeah, I think just, you know, we are definitely, I mean, you know, we're talking omnichannel here. So we definitely have, you know, all our various social media channels where we talk about the gamut of topics and education, one of the pillars, and then, you know, paid media as well, paid social, um, and it's a mix of great brand content launches, but also education, you know, and kind of getting those points across. So we have a lot of channels and we've really leaned into video in the last couple years, like I would say since 2020, like video for us has, you know, like most brands have. We've really leaned into it and there's a number of people on the team who can do content creation. We have a great network of nail influencers who create very good content because they know how to use the products. Um, and they've been amazing partners for us as well as finding like UGC Nail Influencers. E commerce.

Speaker A: Yep, that makes complete sense. Um, and you also have a product where it's like you have your keynote product of the device itself, but then there's the consumable component of different colors, um, of the polish. So how do you think about customer acquisition and then growing the customer, growing that LTV of your customer across the channels. Is that, is that part of your strategy?

Speaker B: Definitely. I think when they come in with the system at first, some of the initiatives on our E Comm site have been, you know, you kind of want them to in the first purchase, ideally increase the AOV and they're buying their removal kit so that they're going home with a bit more. Like our kits include a one time removal, you have 10 wraps for your 10 fingers. But we sell the 100 piece removal, which is your future. Right. So you want them thinking about that. Um, there's other tools that help make removal a better experience. So we've got bundles on our sites and when they're checking out, they're seeing these things that they can add on to really go home with the full routine and kit. You know, all the shades I think we've launched, you know, like, um, buy three get a free pouch. Buy three get a fourth free. There's these types of promotions that encourage them to get more colors. So we have found that if consumers come in and they're quickly like, wow, I want to try that shade. Or Cherry cola nails are trending for Q4. Like, I got to get that because I'm seeing it all over, you know, my Instagram, us being there for that and that you can paint it with our particular shade that's like that. Or the glazed nail trend was so big. I mean, it continues to be big with Hailey Bieber. And we created a kit that reflected the glazed nail effect and that actually went into Ulta as an exclusive. And just building all this content around that so that consumers feel they can get this look at home and just being a part of the conversation that everyone's talking about.

Speaker A: Yep. How much is that? You know, you as the founder, that's part of that conversation on the content side or, you know, is that really more your brand and your brand team or content team?

Speaker B: I do some of it, but I don't do all of it because I know some brands, the founders doing just continuous content daily. We're not set up that way. I'll go on and, um, I peer through the content, you know, like every month. But the team, there's dedicated people who are making nail tutorials featuring the latest colors. And that's a pretty good formula that we have going on where they show how to use it, they really display the results and you get that color impact. We've got the education piece. So if it's about, hey, I'm struggling with removal, um, there's a team that makes that. So we have two different types of video content. There's more. The studio looking stuff, it's very pretty. And then there's like the real ugc. So it's like, this is really how it. And they shoot this at the office, which is pretty easy to do and lots of bite size. So actually one of the things we found out when our interviews with our customers is that where are they watching tutorials? They're watching very bite sized tutorials. So really small TikToks, short TikToks versus like a longer YouTube tutorial, which that was kind of surprising to me. They just want it really bite sized. So it, you know, informed us, moving ahead, we need to just do more of these and build a library.

Speaker A: The search, uh, functionality on TikTok for content is really excellent. Like I, I feel like I go there to learn actively now. Um, it's really, really interesting.

Speaker B: It's incredible. Yeah.

Speaker A: Are you doing anything to bridge the gaps across your different channels and for your customers? And then second but related question. How do you think about the different channels that you are sold in and what those, you know, the different purposes of those channels are?

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, so when we do marketing campaigns, let's say it could be for example Mother's Day as an idea, we'll think about what do we want to communicate in this lead up to Mother's Day. And maybe the messaging could be gifting, you know, and gifting at different price points. Then we'll take that idea and adapt it to all the different channels so you could have your email marketing newsletter that breaks it apart. Gifts at different price points. Moms that are different types of moms, um, you know, the paid media will talk about it in that way, but we might make it into a carousel or a video or a Instagram story that they can um, look into. And then organic video content and the feed for TikTok and um, Instagram will feature. So campaigns are kind of presented this way. And then we try, you know, we also do sms. So you'll have the SMS go out that, you know, kind of encourages them to shop early and there's some gift ideas. So we do, um, try to go across the board. And then, you know, we have found that when we talk about key products like anchor products, our gel manicure kit is the hero. And then if we have a, like the Pearlescence kit, which I mentioned, um, was an Ulta exclusive and it was, um, it's still in Ulta stores, but last year was in full chain at Ulta in the checkout section. And so while the brand was doing a lot of like paid media, talking about Pearlescence as a new shade and what is the effect and the Hailey Bieber nail look that you want to get and the brand was doing all this other marketing about this and we had the photography and lots of content around it, lots of nail looks you could achieve. Ulta had it in all the stores. So then we find that when we can create marketing for products that Our retailers have and halo it. You know, of course, like, a paid ad would probably drive to our D2C site for conversion. But the more of this marketing that's out there that consumers are seeing, then they walk into a store and they're seeing it there. Or we do like, an Ulta email where they're seeing all these gifts, you know, at Ulta, or all these, like, sets they can get and the pearlescent signatures there. Or we do like, Ulta Magazine. They have their monthly magazine. And so it appears in the pages. It's printed. You know, I mean, what's the thing that they say about consumers? Like, they need to see something seven to nine.

Speaker A: Seven times.

Speaker B: M. Yeah. And I mean, we believe this. It's like that first time is just probably lost in the noise. And they kind of just need to see it over and over when we can. Because Nail is very trend driven, right? Color cosmetics, very trend driven. So ideally, we have done good product development. There's a product launching at a moment that it's like a peak trend, trend, and then we can talk about it. And it just halos everywhere. So ultimately, I mean, it's great, the omnichannel approach, because I've always said, like, it doesn't matter to me where the consumer buys us. Uh, if they want to buy on our site or in a retailer, I just want them to be able to find us. And they are free to shop wherever they want if they want to come to our site and, you know, get loyalty points from us and enjoy special, you know, exclusives, like a free pouch if you buy something or if you want to shop at Ulta because you want, like, the ultimate, um, reward points. And they have a really robust program, um, that might be where you want to get your points, and you might just want to, like, drive up into a shop or, you know, buy online and go pick up. But we just want to be available and find. Yep, yep.

Speaker A: Makes complete sense. Shifting gears, topical focus. What is something that you feel boldly or passionately about?

Speaker B: So when we started, I would always say I could be having a bad hair day, but if my nails are done, I feel very polished. I feel like it makes my day better. And I feel, uh, kind of lifted up. And over the years, you know, that's just kind of become. The message is we want to bring to our audience our cherries. We want to lift them up, right? So we offer products that when you paint at home and, you know, you can get a great manicure, you feel more elevated, more uplifted. And I think that has also translated to this general notion of helping to lift up our community. Our team is mostly women. It's beauty, it's nails. So we have mostly women on our team, young women who are at the beginning of their careers, many of them, and also just lifting up the team, you know, developing them, helping them find their way, being part of our community, you know, so it's like the team, our consumers, like it's all one community, really.

Speaker A: Yeah. Ah.

Speaker B: I think the idea of like really lifting them up and we've been trying to work on this messaging as we move forward and I think one of the anchors for us is that we're a very playful brand. You know, I think a lot of our creative and our work out there is very playful and fun, but we also, I think inherently are very joyful brand. The tone of voice and everything is very friendly. We're very accessible. Uh, it's just part of our DNA. So I think as we move forward, this idea of helping people feel lifted up but also tapping into their joy and their creativity and self expression is very inherent in.

Speaker A: Amazing. I can relate to that because if I have my nails done, I do feel put together. So that really resonates with me. Okay. Lightning Round. Favorite Omnichannel brand.

Speaker B: So I have been really loving Live Tinted. Do you know this brand? They're at old. So it was founded by Deepaka. I think she's like an influencer and then she's a founder. She has this beautiful brand. It's very glowy orange and they do amazing Omni marketing. Like they will do all sorts of different. Like they'll do like truck ads. I mean we also do truck ads, but they, and then they're doing a lot of stuff with Ulta, uh, just in store events. And I think they do a beautiful job of really connecting with the community. So yeah, they've been really on my mind these last month.

Speaker A: I'll have to check them out. Branding looks beautiful. What's something that you wish you could change about our industry?

Speaker B: You know, it's interesting. There's a, um, lady that I, uh, speak to. She's kind of like a mentor and she's been in beauty for ages and she runs programs. Like she kind of teaches a beauty class at a university. And a lot of these young people in college, they want to work in beauty and it's very hard for them to break in. Um, and she's like always trying to connect the students with people for internships and entry level positions. And it's Very, very difficult. And so I was thinking it would be great if there were more programs to help people enter the industry. I think it's, you know, it just doesn't really exist that much where there are. It's very competitive.

Speaker A: Makes complete sense. Favorite podcast.

Speaker B: You know, I listen a lot to Diary of a CEO. Yeah, I. I learn a lot from, um. And, uh, I like to watch it on YouTube so I can like, visually see them and follow along and.

Speaker A: Heard that one. But I'll definitely check it out. Favorite newsletter?

Speaker B: I don't have one. I actually don't really. You know, I used to have tons of newsletters and it became all promo y, so I don't really get my info that way.

Speaker A: Totally. I get it.

Speaker B: Favorite social media channel I really like following. Traditionally they were magazines like Allure and In Style and Glamour for the beauty content. Like, I. I do follow all of those social sites to get the latest.

Speaker A: And do you follow them on Instagram or TikTok?

Speaker B: Instagram, yeah. Favorite book? So my partner and I have both been reading Edgai. It's taken us time to kind of get through it, but it's that ikigai. So ikigai is not Japanese word and it's about your inner purpose or your purpose in life. And so my partner's Italian, so he reads it in Italian. I have it in English. It's taking us time to get through it, but it's about tapping into your passion and. And having that be what you do.

Speaker A: Any events that you're planning on going to next year.

Speaker B: So I am looking at. I'm considering, like, Beauty Independent runs a new conference. Um, I think it's at the end of January. It might be in la, so I'm currently kind of looking at that. It's probably with retailers. Um, I just went to their event in London back in November, which was for more investors and brands. So, yeah, I think it should be an interesting one. They always bring together a great community of beautiful people.

Speaker A: And where can people connect with you?

Speaker B: So my LinkedIn is Christina Ko. My Instagram is the Christina Ko. And then. And then we have our brand accounts, which is Lemony Mackerel on Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn. Always find us there.

Speaker A: Amazing. Christina, thank you so much. Uh, I think that this was such an interesting conversation. Loved. I mean, honestly loved, really diving into the tutorials and the education component to your product. So thank you so much for the insights.

Speaker B: Thank you for having me, Kate. I loved your questions. It was such an interesting discussion.