Ditching Corporate for Freedom ft. Elisabeth Sabin

Speaker A: Hey, folks, thanks for jumping in on another episode. Really delighted to be welcoming such a great fractional CFO to the show. Elizabeth Sabin. Based in Portugal, Elizabeth came on our radar about 18 months ago via, uh, LinkedIn, and we were really impressed with her positivity and her attitude to business and life. In this one, we dive into her journey into the fractional CFO world and how she took the leap into starting up on her own. We also talk about how she chooses the clients she works with and how she goes beyond the numbers, supporting her clients and building her personal website and brand. It's a great one if you're starting out on the fractional journey. Hope you like it. Welcome to the new F Word podcast where we cut the fluff on business finances and lift the lid on the new F word, the fractional finance revolution. It's a game changer for small businesses. I'm your host, Colin Hewitt, co founder of Float Cash Flow Management for Xero on QuickBooks. We believe that really understanding your business finances makes all the difference in the world. And having a strategic partner like a fractional CFO is the key to unlocking that. So join us as we dive into personal stories and actionable insights from forward thinking finance leaders and seasoned entrepreneurs to discover why fractional finance leaders have become an irreplaceable part of small business leadership. All right, it's great to have Elizabeth Sabin with us today. Really excited to have you, Elizabeth, welcome. How's your day been?

Speaker B: The day is really great. Thank you for having me, Colin. I'm very excited. I'm a big fan of your show and so I can't wait.

Speaker A: Awesome. Well, yeah, so the show's about what we're calling the new F Word. It's all about the role of fractional. And so we really, it was great to, uh, come across you because you've just made that journey into the fractional world. Why don't you tell us a little bit how that came about and a bit about your story as to how you got here?

Speaker B: Yes, sure. So I'm, um, now a fractional CFO. I come from a little bit over than 15 years of experience in corporate finance. And just four months ago I decided I wanted to be on my own. So I actually changed everything in my life four months ago because I was living in Malta, I'm originally from France. I decided to relocate to Portugal. I decided to leave my job and start my journey on my own as a fractional cfo. So that's quite recent and it seems I'm not alone. It seems it's attracting more and more people. So more and more are, uh, leaving their jobs, actually. Yeah, it has been very. Well, it's a different experience. So you have upsides, and then you have downsides as well, just to be fair.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So tell us a bit about what's the. What was. What were you doing before? Like, what was the. What was your kind of day to day look like before? Was it. Was it December that you went into this full time?

Speaker B: Yeah. So, um, actually, in February. So I relocated first, and then I changed job, let's say. So I left my previous, uh, job, and in February, I started my, uh, practice. I did so because I just realized a few things. So first of all, I wanted more flexibility, obviously. I think everyone will tell you the same thing. I had a very good job, a stable one, uh, good pay. So there was really no issue for me to leave. It's just that I just realized that I needed more flexibility. I want to spend more time with my son. He's 5 years old, and I don't want to be a weekend mom anymore. So I really need this flexibility. And fractional CFO offers that flexibility, you know, being able to adapt your schedule to choose with whom you want to work with, to partner with. So it's just a lot more freedom and control over my own life, actually. So that's one thing. And then I also realized that I kind of needed a more fulfilling reason to work. So I was. I worked for big multinational. I worked for family offices, different industries, different countries. I've lived in seven countries. And no matter what, there was always one day when I realized that I made so many hours, so much efforts, and, you know, I just went the extra mile and just one day, and I felt like I was just at peace in the whole corporate machine, let's say. And I, uh, was contributing to making investors richer. That's great. I like money. Everyone likes money and need money. But I just felt like I needed more. And there was always this entrepreneurship way that I had at the back of my head. And what I really don't want is to wake up when I'm 70 with a lot of what ifs in my mind. So I said, okay, that's time for me. Oddly, being a fractional CFO brings me a, uh, stability. Because. Because I like to change countries. I like to change, you know, people I'm working with, knowing new business models and so on. And when you have this curiosity, I guess, well, you want to build something that is more stable, then Each time I change a country, then I go back from the start and then, you know, you have all these interviews, it's a lot of energy and new work starts and so on. So for me it's also about stability.

Speaker A: It's interesting because I guess a lot of people feel like, you know, the thought of going on your own is actually less stable than the, than the uh, kind of corporate world from a paycheck point of view. But you're saying that it's giving you more stability from a lifestyle point of view. Uh, is that right?

Speaker B: Yes. So it's giving me more, well, a more stable way of living actually, because I know that if I'm able to succeed in building this in the long term, and I think that you need to have a long term vision for that because that's a very difficult, let's say a very difficult decision to take when you start on your own. You know, the clients aren't waiting for you, they are not going to line up for you. You are going to have to market yourself, pitch yourself, which is incredibly difficult when you have been all your life, you know, incorporate. You're not just used to that, being more visible, uh, as well exposed. So it's really about getting out of your comfort zone and I think that's okay. You can do that little by little. You can get used to it. But that brings me stability in a sense where I'm, uh, able to build something for my future. So it, I might not be as successful as I wish now, but that's okay because I have a long term plan and that's okay for me to wait a bit because I want to build things properly and I have this long term vision which I hope will help me build that stability I'm looking for.

Speaker A: I love that. And yeah, so you're saying that it's the long term vision that gives you the confidence to kind of push through the short term pain because you see where and you feel where you're trying to get to with this. So how did you. Was that like a lot of soul searching? Was that something you've been preparing in advance of taking the leap? Or did you. Is it all kind of, you're doing it on the fly day by day?

Speaker B: No, actually I've read a lot, I have looked up a lot about fractional CFO's profile, which by the way, I wasn't aware of before December. It's a new world to me, like you're mentioning. That's really basically a new word for me. So I started to look this up. Uh, I started to search for people doing that. I started to call them and ask them questions and, you know, kind of putting in place my, my plan. And let's say it took me around three to four months. I talked to a lot of people, I got a sense of, you know, what people needed, what were, uh, the downsides and so on. And then I said, okay, let's try, because it's only when you try that you really feel, you know, the reality. So that's when I started to actually practice.

Speaker A: So, I mean, that is the real entrepreneurship of it. And a lot of people maybe don't feel that they can do. Did you have any clients lined up at all? Was there any sort of something that you felt like? I think I've got, I'll start with one and one that I've already kind of scoped out. Or were you completely right? Today I'm going to start going out there and trying to win business.

Speaker B: Well, because I'm a bit crazy. I'm a believer. So I didn't have any clients lined up, but somehow I was trying to build a presence on LinkedIn and that helped me because that attracted people to me actually. So I, uh, felt like I was really putting much effort on LinkedIn, trying to get those posts that would provide value to people. So I was really focusing on value creation for people, what could possibly help a business owner. And I started to write about that and that's when people started to contact me. Potential clients, but not only partners as well. And lately I have been very focused on building partnerships. So, uh, and joining also some of the communities out there, which was very helpful to me. So those are kind of the things I'm discovering as I progress.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think that, uh, that's great. And LinkedIn's been such, you know, it's been so good for this kind of movement because I think there's a lot of people out there who can benefit from the services that are already on LinkedIn. And, you know, I think that's how we, we came across you. And it's, you know, so you're obviously doing something right. Like, how's that been? Did you get discouraged at any point or have you, like you say, have you just committed to a certain amount of time where you were going to see it through and it started already to yield results?

Speaker B: Yes. So I'm not that, you know, huge on success yet, but I still have some good outcome, which for me is really winning a, uh, you know, a small battle because I took obviously huge Risks and huge risk, not only for me, but also for my family. And that's why, you know, I'm very positive so far. But the downsides are really that for anyone thinking about going on their own, that's great. You have lots of positive things associated to that. But also be aware that it takes a lot of time to build trust. And really people do business with you once they trust you. So it's really all about trust. Be aware as well that you will have to not be a, uh, CFO anymore, but a cf like a business owner, which means that you will do less finance at first and you will do more marketing and selling and you know, outreaching and this kind of stuff.

Speaker A: So yeah, yeah, it's true. And a lot of people just don't like that side of it. Like they just, they want to focus. And maybe that's one of the reasons why it's, it's hard for a lot of people to kind of take that leap. But yeah. Have you read much? Have you studied anything on the marketing side of things or are you just kind of doing what comes naturally at the moment?

Speaker B: No, actually I studied other websites. I studied other fractional CFOs posts and website and their offer. And I also base my offer on my experience so far because. So I have a, uh, little experience as a fractional CFO, but over 15 years, as you know, in corporate finance and in corporate finance I was really doing the same as being a fractional cfo, which I realized afterwards because I was helping businesses build that structure inside. I was helping them grow and grow in a sustainable way. So they wanted basically forecasting, budgeting, but what they really wanted is having control over their finances so they can make the best decisions. So that's what was missing with them and that's the real value that you can bring as a fractional CFO. Talking about my friends listening to me here, fractional CFOs. So that's the value that you will, uh, bring to business owners. You know, the ability to sleep better at night. That's something that you can't overstate enough. I mean it's really something key. I, uh, recall that, Colin, that's also one thing that you said last time we spoke together. So that's what finance can bring you. It can bring you this ability to plan ahead and be more peaceful about what's coming next.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I had a really good chat with somebody, uh, who owns a bookkeeping firm yesterday and we were just talking about this and just talking about how a lot of Businesses. I don't know what it's like where you are in Portugal, but certainly in the uk a lot of businesses that I speak to pass all their finances onto their accountant and then they kind of, they don't realize that their accountant is more focused on a, uh, kind of often the year end and kind of being there on hand to provide answers if you've got questions about taxation or grants or things that would affect your accounting. But they're not really coming into that advisory rule very often where they're sitting down and looking at how you could cut costs or how you could explore multiple scenarios or invest money in the business. That's not primarily their role. And I think businesses are starting to wake up to the fact that, you know, there's a rule for that for the accountant and there's. But there's also this rule for the CFO and the advisor. Yeah. Does it, do you think, is that the same as in other. Where you are as well?

Speaker B: Yes. So that's a great point because the accountants are more so they have very tight deadlines, they have various clients and you know, they need to respect their deadlines. They have also regulatory and compliance requirement. So it's kind of a different focus. So the accountants will provide you the numbers and hopefully those will be accurate. And then your CFO would advise you interpret those numbers, tell you the story. They are telling you those numbers so that you can make the best decisions. But yes, in Portugal it's uh, it's actually the same. I'm, I'm experiencing and even, even further. It's. So the fractional CFO service in Portugal isn't very well spread yet. So it's quite, it's quite new. And Portugal in that sense is. So they are very well developed in all, you know, in all ways. But they uh, they're also very new in few areas and finance is definitely one of them.

Speaker A: Mhm. Yeah. And. And you're. Are you focusing on the, on that Portuguese market where you are. You're going beyond that into anywhere in Europe or the uk. You know, how have you kind of decided to target your, your market?

Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great question. So I was starting to target Portugal, but then I realized that, you know, it's just a market that would be too big for me currently because I need not only to provide a new service, but also to raise awareness. And that's the part that is really challenging when you're just one person. So I do, I do speak to Portuguese companies, but not only I also focus on the uk, Europe, the Middle east as well and also the US because I have a CPA license from there. So I'm quite, you know, versatile. And um, the good thing about me being a nomad at heart is that I lived in seven countries so I learned you know, the accounting languages, the various one in those countries and I also learn different best practices, how to deal with multicultural team and so on. So I'm not very scared of going abroad. Portugal and dealing with other countries.

Speaker A: That's great. I mean what an advantage to have all uh, that flexibility geographically. And how about targeting? Is there a certain client that you feel like you're speaking to direct? Do you have a sort of sense of the, the real business, the niche that you want to focus on or are you just literally happy to speak to any, any type of business, any size, any shape?

Speaker B: So again, great question really. I think one advice I could give to other fractional CFOs who are starting is if you can decide on a niche, then go ahead and decide because that will be very helpful for you. That's a journey I haven't done yet because I'm still exploring. It's too soon for me. I, I feel. But what I know is that I already focus on impact, impact focused businesses. So businesses who want to make money but also who have a long term vision, a long term plan and they want to, to have a bigger impact not, not particularly socially but also you know, this kind of vision that people are motivated beyond money. Uh, I guess so. So that's one thing. And then I can help businesses who have already started so far their journey so they are not at the startup stage but they have let's say raised already investors money or they are looking to, or they are past this revenue of 1 million, I guess 1 million euro. That's when I can really bring value because so my, my focus will be more on the strategic side. So I would be assisting them with you know, the strategic decisions, the reporting, the structure, the controls. So that's the kind of things I would be able to help them with.

Speaker A: M. Yeah, I mean sounds great. And think that's um, a, that is a, that's a critical time for a business when they're just kind of hitting through that million mark and wanting to scale and yeah, they maybe don't have any kind of financial reporting in place. It can be pretty ropey up until that point. I know speaking from experience and um, uh, I love that about the impact and finding companies because life's too short, isn't it to Sort of work with people. You just don't, you know, you have to be excited about ideally, the businesses that you're working with. That's the uh, that's a great position to be in, if you can be. And yeah. Have you ever had to turn somebody away because you just felt like it wasn't the right. You just weren't excited about working with them or you just felt like, you know, yeah, this isn't for me.

Speaker B: Yes. So actually, well, one company approached me and so I started to have this conversation with them and you know, asking them some questions about, you know, their values and what's their long term plan. And. And then I suddenly realized they didn't have any values. Their long term plan was basically, you know, just making profit. And again, that's not a bad thing. But I just feel like I need to work with, you know, companies who have more, let's say in mind because I, I really need this sense of fulfillment, let's say, uh, you know, having a sense. What are you doing? I mean, can I ask you, Colin, you built your company, but why did you really build it?

Speaker A: Ultimately I, uh, always come back to my first company, which I built pretty much straight out of uni. And the idea for that was because I just saw so many of my friends who were going into the corporate world unhappy and I thought it'd be great if we could build a company that people enjoyed coming to work.

Speaker B: Uh,

Speaker A: so that was almost the first step for me of that's gotta be the thing. And then ultimately the thought about the business model and everything else after that and uh, maybe in some ways that wasn't great, but we learned a lot along the way. And then with float, it was really almost at a time when we felt like, we've got a solution, we think we've got a solution to a great problem, which is cash flow. But that sort of sense of like, let's continue to build a company that people want to come to work at just kind of continued on. And it probably wasn't until five or six years in where we felt like, you know, oh, do we have to sort of articulate our values and our vision and all that kind of stuff. But actually, you know, realizing like after some time people don't just. You can't assume that people understand that. So yeah, we have kind of done a lot of work on, you know, we want to create a great company culture that's almost our biggest aim. If the company culture doesn't work, then it's not a, you know, I Feel like I failed. Even if we make lots of money and you know, really the next step is then how do we get growth? Because growth is an exciting thing to be around as well, and it allows people to be developed. And, um, so the two have to go hand in hand. But certainly for us it was like solve a great problem and build a great place to work and then you can sort of go on to affect change and create impact in so many other areas. But you kind of have to get those foundations as well. There's no point in wanting to do a lot of impact and having a terrible business model or a dysfunctional culture.

Speaker B: Yes. So that's, I think, the difference between having a long term vision and a short term one. Because you have this long term expectation about building a healthy business. I guess that's what you really want. And I probably guess that you have seen lots of others struggle with cash, so you wanted to help somehow, or maybe you even yourself struggled at some point with cash. So I guess you have that meaning, you have that reason. And it's really not a big thing to have. It's just, you know, why you do that, why are you doing it? Uh, your big why. So that's. Yeah, that's it.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And I think it is really easy to lose focus of that when things get busy and work is tough and you know, you can kind of, you're working on not very much sleep sometimes and it's easy to kind of lose that focus. And it's almost been, for me, I think Covid was a big reset to come back to that and to really prioritize rest and joy and all the things that I sort of wanted to take into the next step. And so I've been on a big sort of re evaluation of all of that. But ultimately it's fantastic when you're working with great people and you're solving a problem and you feel like you're making an impact.

Speaker B: Yes, exactly, exactly. Because I also thought, you know, I was making big impacts on the corporate side as well. Like I turned around the business and so on. But, you know, anyone else could have done that, frankly. I guess so. So you kind of feel like your, your impact, yes, you are doing an impact on the corporate side, but you always have that feeling. And maybe that feeling is kind of implied that, okay, if you're happy, that's great, but if you're not, you know, you're easily replaceable. And that's not really something that motivates you because ultimately we are all humans and at Some point, you know, maybe the pressure on you is too much, maybe you are asked to do too much. And on the other side, even if you are not looking at your paycheck on the other side you just expect, you know, maybe some kind of, I don't know, some kind of human reaction, let's say. And I think that incorporates, sometimes this human touch is kind of just overlooked because it has to. We are assuming that, you know, in big companies to run things correctly, we should just suppress our emotions, which I was the same by the way, uh, I'm no exception. But then I realized what's the point if I can't really leave things, you know, with my own terms, my own values, why should I suppress emotions? Maybe emotions are helping me to make decisions, maybe my instincts are helping me. So there's a lot of things that you start to question but because you don't really fit on one box. That was always my uh, uh, kind of question because I wasn't really fitting one. Instead I was sitting, let's say 50 bucks and people wouldn't understand that. They would simply not be used to that, which I completely understand. But yeah, that's the kind of things that you know, one year, two years, 15 years, 18 years, then you kind of wake up at one point and you realize, okay, what are my options? Can I do things differently? Can I be happier? And how. So those are very basic questions that life actually throws at you at some point.

Speaker A: M. It's fascinating about the emotions I think because you know, being in the finance world it's kind of, it's numbers, it's cold, hard numbers. Just give me the facts and you know, it's interesting. So how do you, how can you bring, and how do you think we could bring more emotion into our decision making or you know, how. Have you found any examples of how you've been able to, to apply that and bring that in?

Speaker B: I think sometimes when it's tough to make decisions on numbers because you're not going to have all the time the numbers that you want or access to those numbers or a certainty that those numbers are really accurate, 100%. So my take is actually to base your decisions on numbers as much as possible but always hear your instincts as well because instincts are here to give you indication about, you know, the non quantitative information that you see. So today I see you Colin, and you might show me you're a great prophet, but then maybe your body language will tell me that okay, that's a great prophet, but you're not happy about that for some reason, which might trigger an alert in my mind. So why would he not be happy about those numbers? They are great. So I kind of have to listen to my instincts as well to try and dig deeper. And that's when I almost always uncover things that might be related to internal controls. So that's great for spotting fraud, for example, which was the case for me as well, especially when I worked in audit and turning around that business that I talked to you about. So those are the kind of things that made me think, okay, numbers are really important, but there are so much more information that are not quantitative, actually, that can really bring you value and can really complement your decision so that you're sure that you can take the best one. I don't know if that was, um. Yeah, I love that.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, it makes total sense. It's great because I think. Yeah, I was chatting to someone else about this and they were saying, yeah, it's amazing how, you know, you could be, you know, you. If. Depending on your attitude towards money and towards risk, you know, uh, you can make completely different financial decisions. You know, if you're. If you feel like, you know, you're coming from that sense of things aren't going to work out for me, so you're holding on and you're not willing to invest or, you know, you've come from a place where, yeah, you're just terrified of losing everything. So again, you don't want to, you know it, or you're too risky and you're just thinking like, you know, it's wildly optimistic and I've never had anything go wrong. So, you know, you're not. You're not dealing with that. So there is a lot of psychology involved. And when it comes to investing and thinking about big decisions with the finances that, uh, I guess not everybody in the company gets to always speak into that. And so as a trusted advisor, you're really well positioned to get into some of that investigation.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's really right, actually, Colin, because what I have seen is some business owners who have come from, let's say, a very strict background, holding on cash, you know, very tight. And when it comes to investing, like you're saying it's kind of difficult for them, or when it comes to raising the payroll, for example, it's also very difficult to them because they are kind of anxious about having no money. So the more you create money and the more you're afraid of losing it, on the contrary, the less money you have, the less you have to lose. So you know, those kind of things affect, um, the mindset of business owners, the culture of the company, the investment decisions and so on. Um, so everything is related actually.

Speaker A: M. Yeah. And it's so useful having somebody who's got a wider perspective because, you know, I've only got the experience of my two companies to, to draw on, whereas, you know, you'll have seen many more and be able to sort of see. Well, you know, I've seen been in companies that had the same financial position but a very different attitude. And you know, and that, that's invaluable really to get that if there's an openness to it, I suppose to, to bring that in. So it's a great, great thing to be able to do.

Speaker B: Thank you. So I guess it's. It depends on what you need. Some businesses would need maybe a more, uh, a CFO more focused on numbers, for example. Depends on the stages where they are. And some others would really need a copilot more on the strategic side being able to really tell what those numbers are and how we want to influence them. Because everything by the way translates into your numbers. So today you change your mind and you wanted to fly, you know, to the other side of the world. I will see it in your numbers. You know what I mean? So you're a mindset and your psychological, uh, state will also translate into your finance. Everything translates into that. The way you are treating your team as well. I will see that in the numbers. The way, you know, the way you handle stress. I can see that also in the numbers. If I see like, you know, a profit we made with one project, for example, but I know that this profit could have been, you know, twice. Why did we make such a decision today instead of waiting for, let's say, two weeks and having a bigger profit afterwards, for example, maybe you were stressed, maybe, you know, you were anxious and maybe you thought that, you know, you were at this time risk averse and that's something that you needed to do right now and not wait. For example, that translates into the numbers.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's a mix of psychology, maybe therapy and bringing some science to it as well.

Speaker B: Yeah. But definitely I would say, you know, emotional intelligence should be something that is when you want to choose a cfo, it's important that he has, or she has an emotional intelligence because there is so much more than just numbers. And I guess that what triggered that into me is really my experience in contributing in saving a business. That was really a huge experience to me because I started to realize so Much things, how my decisions impacted personal lives, for example. So I guess that was a turn point for me because I started to see much more and understand much more the business owners and their decisions and their psychological state and the impact. So when you have an extreme and extreme experience, I guess, and when you go to really an extreme state, when you have, let's say, eight months to save a business, otherwise people will lose their jobs and you'll have, you know, your residency canceled, then you'll have to leave the country. I mean, those kind of extreme situations make you learn, you know, uh, in a record time, in a light speed, you're just aware and you open your eyes to everything because everything can happen. And that's when you start to learn so much more because you see things much more.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So I'd love to move on to, you know, what's your ideal setup then? In terms of how many clients do you think, do you see yourself taking on? How do you think about pricing? Do you see yourself with a company for a certain period of time? Or how do you think about, uh, you've done some visualization on this. Where do you see it working for you?

Speaker B: I don't see myself, at least at the beginning with too many clients. Because, uh, what I want to do is really focus on quality, focus on really making my clients happy, making sure that I really, I'm providing everything they need. And so I guess it's a really progressive experience. I would be limiting my clients at first. That's what I expect until I'm really ready to have on more and more. And then I will start to build, hopefully my business, you know, in a, in a very sustainable way. But I'm not, I'm not in a hurry. I want to do things properly. So that's one thing. In terms of pricing. So people come to me with different expectations so far. And because I'm dealing with different locations, pricing for me is something, uh, that I need to figure out, really. That's something that I need to figure out because they all have different expectations and they all live in different countries so they can compare my quotes with their national, you know, quotes as well. So that's something I need currently to adapt on a one, on one basis. It's okay, I think, because I'm limiting my clients. So that's still something that I can handle. But obviously at some point when I will want to scale, then that's something, uh, that I need to really be clear on so that I can scale it as well. So that's Also an important thing for other fractional CFOs that are thinking of moving from the corporate side. Try as much as possible to build a scalable business from the start. Don't rush, don't rush too fast on tools and things that will cost you much at the beginning. I have received lots of questions about that because people are contacting me for that. And what I advise is really to keep things simple until you have a steady income, until you know more about your ideal clients, you have a more clear, clearer strategy, and then you can hopefully scale and you know, buy fancy tools and so on. Uh, but there are obviously some tools that are great. Among them Collins tool, for example, for cash flow forecasting.

Speaker A: Thank you. You didn't have to say that. Uh, and obviously everybody should get it right from the beginning. No, when you're talking about tools, what do you mean by that? Do you mean like hardware, software? What sort of things would you say people buying before they need it? What have you got in mind there?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think they're asking me which type of software I use to make a budget, for example, to review financial statements, uh, to make sure that I'm sync with my clients and so on I think. Really. And that was one of my mistake as well because I had a lot of questions in mind before jumping and at some point I felt like, okay, I have too many questions. Let's do this, let's try and then let's see one step at a time. So first be able to not rush. So wait a little bit to build your business. You need time. Put some cash reserve aside, a good one, and then take it slow, little by little. Then you'll figure it out what type of tools that you need, softwares like access to any platforms and so on. So that's something you can figure out after. But really one step at a time.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. And yeah. And did you have a buffer? Uh, did you create like, did you create much of a. And drawdown, almost like pay yourself? Was that your kind of, was your main thinking.

Speaker B: So right now what I do is that I don't pay myself, but don't tell uh, anyone that I'm doing that obviously. So I don't pay myself right now because I think it's too soon. What I want to have is really a cash on the side so that I can develop my business. I can invest more on marketing, I can invest, you know, and build hopefully my business more in a more scalable way. So that's what I'm trying to do. And I obviously have some cash reserve on the side which allows me to do that.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, that's a big, that's a big factor, just being able to have that cash reserve to give yourself that, uh, almost that, uh, initial investment that you need to, to get to where you need to get to. Uh, and do you, like, when you talked about scaling, was that, uh, did you think, are you thinking about taking on staff at any point, or do you always see it just as you primarily. Have you thought much that.

Speaker B: Yeah. So first step is only me, and then maybe building like, like some kind of partners around me, like outsourcing some things first and then. And then probably maybe at some point, uh, hiring. But I'm thinking too much ahead. Uh, what I'd like to do, obviously, is to try to reach out to other fractionals. Not only fractional CFOs, but also CEOs and so on. Uh, that's something that is increasing and I think the future might be fractional, by the way. So I think it's really something that is developing and people are feeling that need more and more.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it makes sense because I think, you know, one of the things people always say is you don't want your CFO doing the bookkeeping. You know, like having to go in and fix your Xero account to your QuickBooks account. You know, that's not what you're paying for. So do you have trusted people on hand that you can call on to do that, or would you. Are you sort of starting just to build that network up from scratch?

Speaker B: Yeah, so I'm actually building that network and I have already reached out to some, you know, people that I can trust. So that's something I'm, um, building. I'm also building partnerships with CEOs, with CMOs. I think that's also important for a fractional CFO. So you're not on your own. You are on your own as a business owner, but you will have to work with other people because you can't really do anything alone. That's not the point also. So.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And your network is huge in terms of you'll have experience. If you're recommending somebody to a business that you're working with to have that, to be able to say, yeah, I know this person, I trust them. And somebody you want to work with as well, it's huge in terms of making sure that you're mitigating so much risk just in that introduction. So, uh, I think it's huge, and I think you're right. To be able to build that is, is a really valuable thing. So, yeah, hopefully we can make some introductions as well. We've got some great contacts, great partners that we work with that I'm sure would love to meet you and to connect in. So, yeah, um, it's great to see it all developing.

Speaker B: Yeah, that is really great. One thing that I learned, and thank you for offering that, is that if you want someone to help you in life, you have to help as well. So don't be really be generous with other people. I tend to not expect anything, by the way. I just do things to help really genuinely and whatever comes my way is great, but I also don't put any pressure on people. You know, I did this for you. Just do something for me. That's really not the way you should be thinking. And I'm talking to my colleagues out there, listening to the podcast.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, look, I think this is a great, great one for people to listen to who are thinking about starting up. And I think, you know, another thing, you've done really well. You created a great website, which I think people kind of put off because they're, you know, they're nervous about putting themselves out there. So how, how did you, you've, you know, I think yours is one of the best we've seen. How, how, how did you go about that? Uh, was it nerve wracking? Did you just bite the bullets? And, you know, how do you find that?

Speaker B: Well, thank you for saying so. It was a lot of work, but it took me just five weeks. I, I was feeling a bit lost, actually. I didn't like my landing page. I wanted something that, to reflect my personality more and, um, for people to understand who I was. Because I think it's very important if people want to do business with me. So I, I decided to actually work with someone, a professional marketer, and she helped me through that. What I did is that I really digged into my experience. I really looked into the pain points of business owners. I tried to understand throughout all these years that I worked with them, you know, uh, at the end of the day, what is it that they were looking for? And that was what I translated into my website and nothing more. So, uh, I tried to be very genuine again about my experience, about, you know, how I helped those business owners and how I could possibly help others.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, no, it comes across. I think that's. So when's the URL for that? Is it Elizabeth Sabin.com?

Speaker B: yes, exactly. It's Elizabeth Sabin.com. uh, very simple so that people can remember hopefully my name.

Speaker A: Yeah, we'll have a listen, have a look at it. Because it's um, it's a really good example, I think, of what a, a fractional CFO website can be. You know, I think there, it's that, you know, the one thing that stands out for the, some of the guests we've had on is that it's that courage to be yourself that, that really makes a difference because it just, it, it just brings something more than just the, the feeling of somebody feeling like they have to, you know, there's the authenticity shines through and I think, yeah, people, people, you know, they smell whenever. It's not authentic. So I, yeah, I think, um, but it is, it's not easy, you know, and I, I've been on that journey too where you know, I didn't want to have to do things like this or put stuff on LinkedIn and so many people don't. But you know, I'm not saying everybody has to, but it, there is something really transformational personally that I think you have to go through and just get over yourself and um, be willing that not everybody's going to like it either.

Speaker B: I think you are doing a great work, Colin, really, because I am following your posts and your posts really take the essence of fractional CFO and they really focus on what we are interested in, not only what you are interested in, which is basically what we need to do as fractional CFOs. We need to make posts and give information that would interest business owners and not just, you know, finance people. So talk to non finance people as well. Find the right words to talk to them, like simple, simple way. I have been in companies where when the CFO comes in and I was one of them, you know, everyone would be holding their breath. That's, that's just something that is so past. You want to be natural, you want to be yourself. And that's what resonates with people because people will like you and will want to do business with you. If you're just authentic and you're just simple, you're just natural. Mhm.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Well, look, it's been so good talking to you, we have to wrap it up. But I wanted to ask you finally, like, is there, you obviously got a growth mindset, what have you. Is there one book or one podcast or a YouTube video or something that you watched recently or read recently that's inspired you that you think everybody, you know, you'd recommend to people who are

Speaker B: listening to This I read recently a book, and that was when I started to do my, um, my practice. It was from, uh, Alex Smith, by the way, and it's about strategy and I recommend that, but it's. No, no bullshit strategy. Sorry for the word, but, uh, yeah, uh, that's the book. And he has a really good way of conveying, uh, complex ideas with simple words. So try to look him up. I think it's important for you to have a strategy or start to think about it at least. So not have everything done from the start, but really start thinking about it.

Speaker A: I love it. That sounds good. I will check that one out. Elizabeth, thanks so much for coming on. It's been great to chat to you and um, really wish you all the best in the coming months. So, yeah, let's hopefully speak soon.

Speaker B: Thanks a lot, Colin, for having me. It was really a pleasure.

Speaker A: Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the new F Word. I hope you enjoyed it. Remember, expert financial advice shouldn't be limited to those with just big budgets. You can access the seamless level of advice for a fraction of the costs thanks to this fractional revolution. I believe that every growing business needs to know how much a game changer this can be. So if you love the episode, please consider subscribing to the show. It'll help us keep doing what we're passionate about. And feel free to share this episode with others who might find it useful. Finally, we'd love to hear your thoughts. Feel free to connect with us on LinkedIn. See you in the next one.