The Logan Bartlett Show

The episode contains several genuinely useful frameworks - the CPC/impression-ads analogy for outcome-based pricing, the second-order effects of cheap customer contacts, and the technology-commoditization cycle - but they're diluted by significant meandering, run-on tangents, and long stretches of general commentary that don't deliver actionable insight.

“The analogy I would give for outcomes based as we're going from impression ads to CPC ads and one way of looking at outcomes based pricing that I don't agree with is you're leaving money on the table.”

“When the price of a phone call starts to approach the price of a page view, you're going to do a lot more of them.”

The CPC analogy for outcome-based pricing and the 'second-order volume expansion' argument for cheap AI calls are moderately fresh takes, but much of the episode leans on well-worn concepts like the innovator's dilemma, incumbent inertia, and the internet/mobile comparison that circulate widely in B2B discourse.

“The analogy I would give for outcomes based as we're going from impression ads to CPC ads”

“they had a B2B business model. They're essentially licensed. They search engine to portals. And that left out the opportunity to create outwards, which turned out to be the greatest business model of all time.”

Bret Taylor is a genuine practitioner at the highest level - creator of Google Maps, co-CEO of Salesforce, current OpenAI board member, and now founder-CEO of Sierra - and he draws on real operational experience rather than theorizing; the transcript would score higher on other dimensions if the conversation extracted more from that depth.

“at Google our first campus was sgi silicon graphics and we moved into their campus after they effectively were going out of business and at Facebook we moved into Sun Microsystems campus after they were acquired”

“I have so much admiration for people like Sean to do at Adobe who went through that transition from perpetual license software to routable revenue it's so much a craft and like true business model transitions”

The episode supplies some concrete numbers and named examples - the $20-to-$0.20 phone call stat, the illustrative million-to-$200k revenue scenario, specific company names like Inktomi, Siebel, and Harvey - but most figures are illustrative constructs rather than sourced data, and many claims remain at a high altitude without hard evidence.

“the phone call costs $20 today and it costs 20 cents with AI”

“they're paying you a million dollars a year and you have a disruptive new technology that in 10 years will mean they're paying you 10 million dollars but if you roll that out that year it would go down to two hundred thousand dollars”

Logan shows genuine intellectual engagement - pushing on price compression, introducing the internet-vs-mobile framing - but his questions are consistently long, meandering, and self-hedging ('I don't mean to ask you to speculate'), and he rarely follows up sharply when Bret sidesteps or pivots, leaving interesting threads unexplored.

“is there any framework or like how do you think price pressure plays out in some ways when there are these alternatives that can exist? Do you think that it ends up eroding some of the the ROI pricing that you can get in the early days?”

“Do you think that the lion's share of those will survive and be the next generation of it a kind of mobile or do you think we'll look at a lot of disruption and that new companies are going to be who captures ITSM or CRM or ERP”