The Long Game of Hotel PR With Melissa Benhaim

Speaker A: Welcome to the Lights on podcast featuring stories behind building and running successful hotel businesses. Let's get started. Welcome back to the Lightson Podcast. I'm Kin SEO, CEO of Lightson and your host. Today on this podcast, we share stories across hospitality about building and growing hotel businesses. This episode is sponsored by LightSun. Lightson helps hotel grow revenue more consistently by managing pricing, distribution and digital marketing. Together, we help hotels identify new revenue opportunities so they don't leave money on the table. We also run the full revenue and marketing operation so the team on the ground can stay focused on delivering the best guest experience. If your hotel needs more revenue growth, visit Lyson Co to learn more. Before introducing today's guest, I want to give a big thank you to Alan Mason from the Independent Hotel Show Miami, who connected us to, uh, the guest today. Minister Benham, founder of Benham Public Relations, a boutique travel and hospitality PR consultancy based in Miami. Melissa is a Canal Hotel School grad who started her career in hotel operations at, ah, Four Seasons before crossing over to the agency side, which means she understands hotel from the inside in a way that most PR professionals simply don't. After near a decade at top hospitality agencies, she launched her own firm in 2019 and has since helped independent hotels earn coverage in the New York Times, Business Insider, travel leashes, and more to count. She's here today with me to talk about how independent hotels can use earned media to compete without outspending the big brands. Melissa, welcome to the show.

Speaker B: Thanks so much for having me, Ken. It's great to be here.

Speaker A: Yeah, honestly, this is a, uh, a big gem for myself because I honestly don't know too much about how PR works on that side of the world. So, uh, this session is going to be fulfilling. Lots of my own personal curiosity. Um, but before we get to that part, I think a very curious, um, great angle for, um, how you started hospitality because you're not one of the normal PR person. You actually started working in hotel on the operation side. So how, how did you start from there and what makes you transition over time to, um, the PR side of things?

Speaker B: So, yes, so I originally started in hotel operations as you mentioned, um, with Four Seasons Hotels, was my first job out of college, um, and I was sent to Jackson Hole, Wyoming to work in the spa department. M. This was after I had worked a little bit in, um, other departments and, um, through working in spa operations, ended up collaborating with the PR manager on a project. M really enjoyed that. And so when a transfer opportunity came up to Miami, especially after having been through, um, A Jackson Hole winter and all six months of it. I, um, took the opportunity and um, went to work in the marketing department at Four Seasons Hotel, Miami, which is where I really got my foundation in pr. From there, as I, um, discovered that was my, my passion. Um, I then went to work for several PR and then social media agencies before going out on my own. But the time that I spent working in hotels and through um, Four Seasons as well as internships during my time at the hotel school, I've worked in nearly every department of a hotel. I think that gives um, kind of a unique exposure when I am thinking about PR campaigns or um, you know, especially on, when I was working on the social media side, more thinking about the types of questions that I um, could expect from guests because I was so many times on the front lines, um, you know, answering those guest questions or um, you know, thinking about the guest experience.

Speaker A: I see. So with that operational experience, um, what do you think most um, PR professionals um, Ms. Entirely today? Especially ones that haven't never worked with hotels, um, inside before.

Speaker B: I think one aspect is definitely thinking about things from a logistical perspective. So one thing that we love to do, especially on the PR side is come up with a fun package, um, something that can be, let's say, over the top in your um, penthouse suite that can combine, ah, food and beverage experience, maybe a, um, a private jet, um, experience in there as well, kind of throw in all of these items and make it really over the top with a bunch of partners. But one thing I think, um, you know, folks often miss is the question, what if somebody actually wants to book that package? You know, is it bookable? How does somebody book it? And let's say if somebody books it, um, you know, what does the operations team need to know in order to execute it? Um, so I try and think through a lot of those aspects, um, regardless of the kind of PR campaign or initiative. But thinking about is this something that can translate into operations and what are the kinds of questions or needs that the operations team might have in order to make this a success.

Speaker A: I see. It's funny thing, we had uh, some experience in the past because we were um, brainstorming ideas with our clients about um, doing upsell strategies and uh, how do we provide a better check in experience for the guests? Sometimes we bring something, hey, what about we give um, all the guests a pineapple or something? Springstorming. And then kind of on the operational side the GM will be like, oh, how are you now going to be keeping stock of all these, uh, Fruits and pineapples is going to go um, bad in a few days. Logistically it's just not um, I mean it's viable but it's going to be very lots of hassle trying to um, put that off to have really the return on investment. So I think these are the things without knowing the in and out of operations, sometimes things that people will miss and um, great idea but operationally just not easy to do so.

Speaker B: Exactly. So it's so important to think about it from all angles.

Speaker A: Mhm. Yeah. So that's a great beginning um, with that knowledge. So kind um of from there moving on now um, getting on the agency side right before you started your own firm to now having your own firm. Right. Do you um. Maybe a better way to say it is what was the steepest learning curve to going from inside of a hotel to now being a outside partner to the hotel?

Speaker B: Yeah. So I think inside the hotel um, what I generally found from my experience is that um the role itself would encompass a lot more than um, strictly pr. So it may include especially with a smaller team in a hotel. Um, you might also be responsible for marketing, for um, content development, for um, graphic design, maybe for internal communications. Kind of all of these things that end up um, going into one and then on the agency side um, the main difference is that you are doing um, mostly pr, especially if it's a PR agency. Um, but you'll work typically on multiple clients. So for me I adjust adjusted from just working on one hotel and going really deep into all of the different um campaigns and angles to working on multiple hospitality or travel clients. So it might be a mix of hotels or maybe a destination or a tourist attraction in there as well. Um and that skill has been something that um, has definitely helped me especially since going out on my own being able to manage effectively um, different clients and different priorities.

Speaker A: Yeah. Um, can you walk us through how this shortage is made? Right. Because I think from a hotelier's perspective they work with PR agency. They know um, the goal is to um, earning some media coverage and all that. Right. So I think uh, lots of portal leaders just don't understand um, kind of how that whole end to end process will look like. Right. And I know um, I think you had a great story a while back to earn some really good um medias for a Florida uh property uh from and go lodge. So um, can we use that as an example just to walk through how that end to end m. Process work from. Kind of like okay, we have to identify where and what Kind of media needs to be earned kind of from that process getting to um, having something on the news. Right. What is the whole process like?

Speaker B: Yes. So a great example with that Florida property, Flamingo Lodge and Restaurant is um, a Travel and Leisure story that we worked on. Um, so we got a query from um, an editor at Travel and Leisure in um, it was I think January of 2024 saying um, I'm interested in doing an Everglades feature in an upcoming issue. Can we talk further about this? Um, so we got on a call with the, with the editor there, talk through um, that she was thinking of assigning a writer to do it um, and visit the Everglades and um, do a whole week long immersive experience. Fantastic. So then um, we connect with the writer who gave more specific information about the dates and what he's thinking, um, that happened. His visit ended up happening in April. Um, so leading up to the visit a lot of the work that I and my team were doing were working on his itinerary. For example, when somebody says, let's say they want to come do um, a stay at your property or in your region, um, and you're leading it, you then come up with the itinerary. What are the things that they're going to do, how are they going to get from um, let's say the airport or if they're driving in, how long does it take to get from um, point A to point B? Thinking through um, you know, just like with the hotel operations side, all the logistics, um, and then after his visit, um, working with him to answer fact checking questions, questions he had about the hotel or the Everglades as a whole. Um, and then for that feature they actually wanted to send a photographer in um, to mirror the writer's itinerary to capture images to go along with the piece. So then it was a matter of condensing the writer's itinerary flower for a photographer to come in, um, duplicate it again, answering any questions that came up or such. And in total it was um, over about 14 months, uh, multiple calls, emails, uh, in person visits and the Result was a 8 page print feature in Travel and Leisure magazine as well as an accompanying online piece about a week long immersive experience in the Everglades, which not only featured the client, the uh, Flamingo Lodge and restaurant, but also featured um, various other partners and entities inside and outside of Everglades National Park. So of course the folks, our partners at the National Park Service were incredibly happy with um, with that as well. And um, the reason I like that example is because it shows one, the timeline. So 14 months from start to finish. I often say that PR is the long game. And um, it is, you know, it does require some waiting and a lot of um, follow up. But it's incredibly rewarding to see the results come together. Um, and then also everything that goes into it from the itinerary to um, helping answer questions to the photographer. There's really a lot of components and it's so helpful for hotels and partners, especially the independent hotels, to have someone on their behalf to handle all those aspects. Um, because you know, quite frankly, let's say, ah, um, an independent hotel that has multiple other um, things that the marketing manager or such may be handling may not have the time and resources to dedicate to um, putting together an itinerary forum, walking through a writer for that. But the coverage from that is of course so valuable that you wouldn't want that opportunity to pass you by.

Speaker A: Yeah, um, I think people never would expect, oh, pr, just having somebody write an article. Right. Uh, it shouldn't take 14 months. And just knowing actually what happens outside of just writing something on the article. I think just that uh, it all turned into ultimately the experience that we want to showcase. Not necessarily. And this is the part where I uh, think lots of people always talking about, oh, now when you have AI, uh, you can write all these things. Why would somebody still need this kind of earned media and things like that? I think it's really those behind the scenes, like the piece of content is the outcome, a distilled outcome of that 14 months of planning and prepping and things like that. I think people um, don't, many people probably did not realize the process behind the scenes.

Speaker B: Yes. It's funny you mentioned about AI because we do see that definitely as a trend in the travel and hospitality industry. But a writer friend recently remarked to me, and I think it's so true, she is prioritizing um, first person experience content. You know, I visited this hotel and here's what it was like. Um, because that's not, that's simply just not the kind of thing that AI can, can do at this time. Um, and people still want to read those kind of uh, um, articles. You know, here's what it was like, here's what you can expect for, for your trip.

Speaker A: Yep, definitely. Uh, and actually we will um, have some questions for you. We can go kind of further in that area but kind of, you know, back. Um, one thing I find very interesting, what you just ment is that PR Is a long game, right? And uh, when you cannot show a very immediate return on investment in front of the hotelier, right, because we all know everybody is talking about I need more revenue this year, I need that asap. So how do you think about that long game and really showing the um, return on investment in the long term uh, to a hotelier who's all they are thinking about is kind of the immediate return, what I'm going to see in the next two to three months. Now in this example we're talking about even like 14 month process, right? So um, how does that make sense? Um, for a hotelier it's a balance for sure.

Speaker B: So um, at the same time that we might be working on um, a placement like that that we know is going to take a year plus we'll be working on shorter lead opportunities as well for um, you know, looking to place uh, interviews and um, and bylines and such that will continue having coverage. Because the idea is to keep your awareness and keep your hotel top of mind throughout the year so that people continue to, to see it and have those touch points in terms of looking at it from the ROI perspective. One example I love to go with, um, that I see a lot of hotels doing really well are strategic partnerships and alliances. So I actually um, did this for a museum client. So looking at more the travel attraction space, but I think it's definitely something that can be replicated for a hotel. So um, they had mentioned to me that um, you know like many hotels in Miami, um, August is a particularly slow month for them, um, and wanted some ideas about how we could um, you know, get some more people in. So I came up with the idea to partner with a local graffiti artist to do a spray painting pop up workshop at the museum. Um, and the way it worked was that you, it was included in your general admission ticket for the museum, but it was first come first serve so you had to be there um, early enough to guarantee admission. And so we promoted it, um, we got some fantastic media coverage um, through local outlets. We coordinated with the artist who had a strong social media following of his own to do pre event promotion and in the end the results speak for themselves. They had um, nine times the amount of people buy tickets for that Sunday versus a standard weekend in August. Um, so all those people bought museum tickets and then um, were free to explore the museum afterwards. Um, but the important thing is from the museum's perspective they had that revenue come in and it also opened up an opportunity for future collaborations with that artist, particularly for an untapped audience, um, at least as of that point the parents. Because a lot of the people that came to that workshop were the parents um, of the kids who wanted to meet the artists as well themselves. So I try and counsel hotels to think about some of the local uh, partners that you work with or um, maybe some of those brand ambassadors who are already enthusiastic fans of your property. Could you maybe explore some sort of an event or collaboration or such with them that could be mutually beneficial? Especially during a need period for you?

Speaker A: Yeah, especially during need period when uh, ah for many destinations. Right. I think uh, hoteliers tend to uh, focus on the inbound um traffic, travel demand and not necessarily thinking about the local communities too. Right. Which is usually. It could be a saving grace when you don't have the inbound um demand coming in. So now what can you do with your local communities to draw some of those demand and kind of December that you gave was actually awesome. Trying to. It's a downtime now. Let's actually um, manufacture certain things to actually drive uh interest locally. Because there are people around you. Why always thinking about people coming from afar. Right. Um, so I think that example was great. Uh, it's a very easy tide, um between having an event, having a strategic partnership uh with influencer and things like that and you can actually see the return from uh, that we can face essentially jump. Right. So for broader, more strategic um initiatives. The long game part of things um, is that equally easy to measure the return on that. For example um, when an earned media comes out, great piece of article, um, people read that and all that. So now trying to tie that to um, awareness in a way or um, the replicating away. Are there any um, best practices to do that?

Speaker B: So one way is definitely to track um, go into your Google Analytics, track the top website referrers for that Everglades hotel. Actually we were able to see that in action. So m. We secured a mention for them in the New York Times 52 places to go list. Um, which was fantastic. And um, we were actually able to see the day that the online article came out, a huge spike in website visits. Um, we know at least one of those turned into a booking because the guest came and uh, said to the property team, I came because I read about this in the New York Times. Um, but aside from that you can take a look at the website traffic as well as simply surveying guests. How did you hear about us? Um, sometimes it's a combination of things. I think what we often find sometimes even you know, thinking about Ourselves when we travel and go to a hotel is that we may not necessarily remember the first time we heard about it, but oftentimes let's say it's we read about it in an article and then we were talking with a friend about an upcoming trip and they recommended that hotel as well. Um, or let's say then you see a social media post um, from them. So it can often be a combination of factors and that's why we focus on keeping the um, the awareness going, especially in I will say the, the outlets that really matter to you most. So focusing on um, you know, from, from a hotelier perspective, what does your GM read or listen to? What does your ownership team um care about? Often asking those types of questions will help you a lot in the long run as you can hone in on really what um, are the websites, magazines, even emerging media like um, podcasts like this, um, substacks or social media influencers. What are the ones that are most important and oftentimes a ah placement in one of those outlets, um, even if it's smaller, especially if it's important to your leadership or ownership, may have just as much um ROI as some of those bigger ones that you find.

Speaker A: Yeah. And um, I also want to add on to that kind of from our perspective, uh, I always like to think about um, when a piece of great content like that comes out, right. It's almost like a crime not to repurpose those opportunity into many other different ways. How do we stack more actions on top of a great earned media, right? So because we run lots of the um, pay ad campaigns and like that for our clients, right. So when something comes out uh, great awareness, great spike on that first moment and afterwards how do you going to bait that into all sorts of other marketing uh initiatives that um, a hotel can do, right? Whether it's going to be building retargeting campaign from a pay ad perspective so that we kind of sustain that awareness so we don't want a great piece of content comes out. You got that one spike and it just died down from there, right. So I think finding other ways from a marketing perspective, whether it's going to be social media, whether it's going to be pay ads, uh, when it comes to trying to uh, sustain that awareness and start turning those into booking now that also uh, uh it's important to make sure every property's website from a conversion perspective is also um, solid because we don't want to create uh, all this awareness but not being able to convert uh, those awareness into Actual bookings. So uh, sometimes what we saw is that generate lots of awareness. But when the website, uh, it takes to like 12 clicks to really to get a booking, people drop them there, then you're kind of like wasting all the investment to creating those awareness. When the guests literally just can't make a booking now they're going to go, what's the scenario? They go to a competitor or they uh, ended up just going to Expedia or booking and just book through OTA versus the direct website. So those could be missed opportunities, uh, wasted investments. So uh, it just have to be looked at holistically. I think awareness is the first, uh, the trigger point. But every step along that way has to be uh, thought carefully to maximize uh, the impact.

Speaker B: Exactly. And ah, I will just say with um, those press mentions that you get, always sharing is great, especially for the writers of those pieces. Um, if it's an online piece of you helping get more eyeballs on their piece helps them more. And um, when they, you know, when their pieces get more eyeballs on them then they, they're incentivized then to want to work with you, uh, more. So it, it helps everyone and it's that third party credibility, um, that when your guests see that um, it just adds another layer for them.

Speaker A: Oh, interesting angle because that actually goes both way. Right? Uh, you know, I did not realize that from a writer perspective they also appreciate the shout out too on that side. Great tip on that one. Um, so, um, since we're talking about the return on investment, right. I want to talk about something that you did super cool, um, um, a while back that earned you a HSMAI Adrian award. Uh, I think that was before your firm. So you built a social media campaign that deliver what, over 150x in terms of return on investment. Can you share a bit more how that crazy return uh, can be achieved?

Speaker B: Yes. So that was really fun. That was for a Christmas in July hotel, um, campaign that we used a Facebook offer for. So at that time, um, Facebook offers were a really great way to um, basically put out a sale, um, and have it be easy for guests to book. So um, when the client told us that um, they wanted us to come up with a social media strategy for their annual um, Christmas in July sale. We came up with the Facebook offer as a way um, to position it. So we put it up on there. We did a um, social media ads campaign that I want to say we spent maybe $750 on. It was not a big investment. And um, the revenue that they received from that campaign was over 110,000. That's crazy. So was huge return on ad spend, um, and really fun. And for me what was really fun about that campaign was we were able to do a bunch of tests. So we could test for example a GIF versus a static image or a video um, versus a static image and see in real time which was performing better, which had a lower cost per result and then allocate that spend there. Um, so that was uh, for the data nerd in me, that was a really fun campaign and obviously was incredible to get recognized for that um, by HSMAI as well.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's such a great story uh, because I did not miss it. It's 150 times on the S spend. That's crazy. Um, and it was kind of like a few years back then when Facebook offers was a thing. Right? Do you see now we're in 2026. If you were to replicate, trying to replicate similar result, obviously, uh, uh, we have a lot of the social media landscape, the PR landscape is a lot more different now. Do you see opportunities where, how people can think about um, building a low cost, um, affordable campaign that could drive very asymmetric result?

Speaker B: I think um, I would probably shift it to Instagram now. I think just Facebook has continued to become a bit more cluttered since then. Um, and then I would say, you know, thinking about um, an Instagram reel, a sort of quick um, visual campaign to drive um, clicks, let's say whether it's for a, ah, package or an event or such. Um, a lot of people are you know, scrolling through posts, scrolling through their stories. Um, and I think what we see now is that the attention span has decreased even more. Um, so you really need um, fantastic visuals, fantastic messaging to capture attention immediately. Um, and I think we see that to be honest, on the PR side too. Um, what really makes a PR pro stand out, and this goes back to the AI comment um, before as well, is being able to um, send a greatly targeted pitch to the right person. So looking at right messaging to the right person, um, and be able to get to the meat of what it is, um, very quickly. So for that reason I will use bullet points and a lot of my pitches, um, looking at bolding and underlining, really thinking about the way that people um, read and consume content these days. It's fast. Most people are skimming, not reading. And so um, you want to make sure it is, it is easy to understand, um, and that you're not losing your audience along the way.

Speaker A: I see. So imagine for an independent uh, property owner, especially on the smaller side who never think about PR or even have a budget for PR at all. So for these um, group of hoteliers, what would be the first move you will tell them to make tomorrow to start thinking about earning media coverage? Right. You know it could be hiring agency but you know, if they don't have the budget like what could they do or think about um, to earn some of those opportunities?

Speaker B: So I would say first thing is look at your um, local tourism board, especially if you have a membership already with them and make friends with them. A lot of independent hotels have um, memberships to their CVB but rarely utilize all of the benefits. So those tourism boards are bringing in local, national, um, international media throughout the year to the destination and they're always looking for hotel partners to host media whether it's overnight or let's say if you have a restaurant, welcome them for a meal. Um, and so if you are able to put your name in to participate in those, post those um, media, that's a great way to start earning the media coverage and you don't have to lay out expenses to bring in those media in. Um, so that's, I would say step one would be um, you know, make friends with and make sure that you are maximizing your tourism board membership that you're probably already paying for. Um, and number two I would say if you're interested in pr, um, you know, look at exploring some options. There are PR agencies out there, there are PR consultants such as myself. So you can see kind of what might be the best fit especially for an independent hotel. And then you can also see if there is um, you know, an offering that is something you can try rather than let's say um, a, a traditional retainer. If that's not something that you can commit to, whether from a budget or timing standpoint. Um, you know one thing that I offer for example is a PR boot camp. So it's for um, independent hoteliers or other tourism professionals who want to understand the fundamentals of PR and try and um, apply it, but don't necessarily have the bandwidth to let's say um, you know, have a full year round PR campaign. Um, or maybe is there a media opportunity that your GM or such has been approached with. Um, you know that might be an opportunity to explore working with a PR consultant on um, media prep and um, everything related to that. So those are a few recommendations I would say, but definitely um, the biggest one, the tourism board one um, I think is so Important and is so often overlooked.

Speaker A: Yeah. Um, the tourism, but honestly is such a, um, hidden gem that um, people don't think often. Uh, sometimes we talk about, uh, we are getting to a point in the industry now. It's very competitive. Right. When we think about marketing in general, not just pr. Right. Um, every hotel thinks really hard about competing with, um, the peers in the same market between hotels or hotels. Um, we are kind of seeing less and less on how, uh, hotel can ride a wave with the destination marketing as well. Right. Especially working with a tourism board, they really cared about, um, bringing um, traffic and demand for the destination. So kind of thinking about that and trying to ride that wave is just such an overlooked, uh, way to um, have big leverage. Right. Not, uh, necessarily with a huge budget. Um, what, what's the most you've seen, uh, a tourism board would do for, for a hotel property with that route?

Speaker B: I mean they will, um, support their, their partners. So one thing that I will say is that this pays dividends, not just in terms of pr. So when you are, um, responsive and eager to work with the tourism board, let's say their, their PR team on bringing in media, the PR team will then share your information with their sales team, um, for bringing in leisure or corporate travelers or um, you know, let's say they're bringing in an airline fam to uh, to promote a new flight to the destination. They will sit there and think through who are hotel partners who are responsive and great to work with and um, people that we can rely on to put together a fantastic experience for this fam. And if your name pops up, then you get the exposure to that fam, to that group, to um, you know, to all those people who are coming into their, to your destination. So, um, that's why, you know, I really do think make friends with your, your tourism board, it will definitely pay dividends for you.

Speaker A: Yep. Hey, end of the day, those connection, human connections, hospitality are all about that. And this is one thing that everybody's freaking out about. AI replacing jobs and functions and whatever. This kind of human connections is something that AI can replace. So I think hidden gem, quick tipsight. Honestly, anyone can start doing that tomorrow.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: Yeah. Well, thanks. Melissa. I got one last question for you. Um, with. I mean, at this point, you now have a very successful career in PR for travel industries in general. Like over this time, who are your biggest champions in your career and uh, what, what did you learn? Um, specifies from them that you still remember.

Speaker B: Um, so one mentor that I have had, I will give him A shout out. His name is Michael Smart. He's a PR coach basically. Um, and so much of what I learned came from him. And he runs kind of a professional, um, development program for care professionals like myself. Um, but a lot in terms of clear communications and um, um, you know, making sure that you're getting out your message to, to the people who, who matter most. Um, and another person I'll say is, uh, is our friend Ellen from the Independent Hotel Show Miami. Um, she's been I think a great champion in terms of um, sharing about PR in the media landscape for hotels. At the 2025 Independent Hotel Show Miami, I was part of a session on how hotels can navigate the new media landscape. So, um, looking at, from more traditional avenues like magazines, newspapers to um, emerging media like ah, podcasts and substack, um, Ellen has been I think a really fantastic champion as well as, you know, the Independent Hotel Show Miami. Overall, um, in terms of meeting the needs of the independent hoteliers and, and um, making sure that there is a space dedicated for that.

Speaker A: Yeah, I'm actually super excited about um, the show this year in Miami. It's happening in uh, September. So um, we have a lot of conferences about hospitality and I think the big problem is some of those are getting way too big and uh, they are more and more tailored towards the big management group, so big brands and things like that. I really like uh, the Independent Hotel show because it's generally smaller, cozier and it's more targeted for independent uh, hotel leaders who literally need the most support. So uh, I definitely am looking forward to uh, going to the show this year and uh, seeing Alan seeing you there. It is definitely a great time uh, today. So super excited about that.

Speaker B: Yes, likewise.

Speaker A: Yes. Melissa, where can people learn more about you?

Speaker B: So my website is BenheimPR.com um, and you can find me on LinkedIn, uh, ElissaBenheim, and I'm happy to connect with folks there. Of course. I've always answer any questions about PR and the media landscape.

Speaker A: Awesome. Thank you, Melissa. Thank you so much for um, joining us and sharing the power of pr.

Speaker B: Thank you.

Speaker A: All right, signing out. Thanks for listening to the Lights on podcast. We'll see you again next time and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.