From Knowing to Practicing: Turning Leadership Insights into Everyday Action

Speaker A: Hi and welcome to the Human side of Business podcast. I'm Angie Cabe, CEO and co founder of Intuitive Performance. I'm a performance coach, HR professional, whole person leadership facilitator, and your host. The Human side of Business podcast is fueled by the genuine curiosity to understand how personal characteristics and skills can be leveraged to drive individual and team performance, tangible outcomes, and ultimately organizational success within business. Each podcast is devoted to sharing knowledge, expanding our learning edges, and exploring the trends in corporate culture towards growing the emotional intelligence of organizations. I'm so glad you're here. Hi and welcome to the Human side of Business podcast. I'm Ange McCabe, CEO and co founder of Intuitive Performance. I am a performance coach, HR professional facilitator, and your host. The Human side of Business podcast is fueled by the genuine curiosity to understand understand how personal characteristics and skills can be leveraged to drive individual and team performance, tangible outcomes and ultimately organizational success within business. Each podcast is devoted to sharing knowledge, expanding our learning edges, and exploring the trends in corporate culture towards growing the emotional intelligence of organizations. I'm so glad you're here.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Human side of Business. I'm your host, Ange McCabb, and today we're diving into episode three of our back to Basics series. I'm once again joined by Maria Maycock, consultant at Intuity and leadership development coach. Welcome back, Maria.

Speaker C: Great to be here again, Ange.

Speaker B: Today's focus is a big one. We're going to be exploring the shift from knowing to practicing, from intellectualizing leadership to embodying it. Because let's really face it, the smartest leader in the room isn't the one who knows the most. It's really about the one who practices the leadership skill sets the most.

Speaker C: Yeah, knowledge is important, of course, but it's not transformation. We don't get better at leadership by consuming more content. We get better by doing reps again and again. So let's talk about this. Why is knowing such a trap for leaders?

Speaker B: Ang, I think that's a great question. Before we go there, I want to hijack you for a second. You said something really interesting so quick. I know. I think this was like, actually a record. Um, you say we're getting better by doing reps again and again. What do you mean by reps?

Speaker C: I think simply knowing and being okay with not knowing. So, uh, I don't want to say fumbling through because maybe that sounds maybe a bit more messy than what we might be comfortable with as managers and leaders trying, um, new things. I think it means Adapting. I um, know here at Intuity we like uh, to, to dig into disc styles and I. And it makes me think about adaptability and just your ability to try new things on for the benefit of your people. So I think when, when I say reps, maybe that means adaptability, if that makes sense.

Speaker B: Uh-huh. No huh. And when, when I'm hearing that word reps, I agree. Adaptability and whatever leadership skill set you're looking to elevate or practice.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: How I'm taking this is it's not so much about reading and being a specialist on that particular topic or skill, content, etc. But rather figuring out what is it that you need to do keep consistently so that it becomes a leadership habit again and again.

Speaker C: Yeah. It's not just theoretically.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: Um, we can know lots of things. Do we do, do we, do we walk the talk?

Speaker B: Absolutely. And so to go back to your original question before hijacking, I am talking about why is knowing such a trap for leaders? I think that's an awesome question. And to unpack it a little bit, it can feel like a process.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: And that can also feel daunting or taxing because oftentimes we feel like it's an and I have to do this on top of operations and everything else that we're doing in the workplace. So for example, you read the book, maybe you attend a workshop, you hear the keynote, you really get the um, context of whatever theory it is or that thing best practice. And then there's the other side of it, um, which often comes from a place of self pressure that really tells us we should be able to implement a new skill at a hundred percent. And Maria, you and I have seen this many times over and over again with our coaching clients and sometimes even within ourselves at intuitive performance is that we've been trained oftentimes from an academia perspective to go from zero to a hundred, not look at that 1%. Um, absolutely. And basically if we don't get it correct the first time, then we, we let it go essentially. Um, or it could be that kind of fleeting shiny ball from a conference type thing.

Speaker C: Mhm. We mhm.

Speaker B: Know especially in today's market, that for it to stay in your head, it's about automaticity, meaning that you need to have practice, um, you need to be able to act upon it. And you, you said it beautifully earlier with regards to you may know the thing, but how do you do the thing?

Speaker C: Uh yeah.

Speaker B: And it really can't as a leadership best practice or style. It can't just live in your head, it really lives in how you show up and.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker B: You know, I, I go back to our, our adage at intuitive performance in the sense that we're big on knowledge to actions and when it comes to growing our clients or walking along our clients growth, it's really getting them to look within first. Um, I think that's a really important piece of it. And to come full circle, it doesn't need to feel like a daunting process.

Speaker C: No, I think accepting. In previous episodes we've talked about creating a culture of learning. Um, it's really needing to move from intellectualizing M to integrating. So we want to take the thing out of your head and like help you actually do the thing. But with that, to be successful or for that to be successful rather, there needs to be an environment created where failing is accepted.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker C: Curiosity is encouraged.

Speaker B: Yeah, I like how you pared that down. Intellectualized rather than integrating.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: That's what we normally do. Mhm. We need to be able to flip. That is what I'm hearing. Yeah.

Speaker C: We need to integrate, not just stay. Stay in our head.

Speaker B: Stay in our heads. Okay.

Speaker C: Um.

Speaker B: So leaders can know all the models and the frameworks, but essentially what we're saying is that if they, they don't apply them when it counts in the correct context, environment, workplace, climate, sometimes even timing, it just becomes theory.

Speaker C: Exactly.

Speaker B: So it comes back to practice is what turns knowledge into wisdom.

Speaker C: Exactly. Yeah. So a big part of this, obviously, or not so obviously, is emotional.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: The courage. So much of it is based in the courage to show up a bit messily.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: While you're learning.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Mhm. And it's to me, what I'm hearing is that this is where vulnerability comes into play.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker B: So yeah, vulnerability around admitting that we're still learning something. Um, and oftentimes we put the pressure tying it back in to self that we should know.

Speaker C: Uh-huh.

Speaker B: And vulnerability would be, um, almost like our superpower that allows us to have the strength to have that actual growth.

Speaker C: Exactly. So now I'm going to ask you.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: What does practicing leadership really look like?

Speaker B: Oh, um, for me, in the shortest form with an example, I would say it's. It's understanding your leadership habit loops. And what I mean by that is you need to understand what is a skill that you want to learn or apply.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: What is it that you're currently doing and what do you need to add to get to the application? So it's, it's almost Like a um, knowledge to action gap analysis is what. Okay, we've talked about in past. I know.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: Um, and how this looks in the real world is pausing to take a breath before responding. We know that it takes six seconds to go from our emotional brain to our cognitive brain. So even when we know the right thing to say, it's really staying curious in the moment of tension, of excitement or what have you. And then it's reflecting after a conversation asking did I show up in the way that I wanted to for this situation, for the department, for the person?

Speaker C: Mhm. Mhm. I mean it sounds super small, but I think where we fall over at resisting the practice is that it is super small. But it has to be very intentional.

Speaker B: Mhm. Very much so. And consistent. So yeah, thinking of it of like building muscles and it's not just about the big muscle groups and we know that one rep doesn't make a difference. It's really, statistically speaking, 18 to 254 reps depending on the person, the habit and the specific behavior. So that really changes how you move. And really the same thing goes with leadership. Yeah. I mean we've seen it with multiple clients in the sense of putting forward that stat. I don't know if there's been a time where I haven't seen someone's mouth kind of drop open and the epiphany of oh my gosh, it's a minimum of 18 times and upwards of 254. Like that's not something we think about. And when you put it into that perspective, I believe it serves, you know, looking at things from a 1% as to. Have you, have you gone from knowing to understanding? Have you gone from understanding to your own awareness? Have you gone from awareness to somewhat being able to apply it and then the graduation to 100% being able to know all of your triggers and being able to apply the thing.

Speaker C: Mhm. Yeah. I find this comes up so much in the realm of communication. M. In the, in the knowing to practicing space, trying for leaders trying on new ways to. Especially since the dawn of the hybrid work environment, you know, really trying to adapt to new ways of engaging their people. I don't know if you've seen the same things, but.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker C: Um, that's. That's just something that's. That's come up for me. And listening is um, how leaders have had to adapt to different engagement styles and many cases of knowing what and how folks should be doing, but then practicing the meeting them where they're at.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: To meet to meet their needs in a fairly, in some contexts disconnected work M environment has been been really interesting. Yeah.

Speaker B: This m circles back to the skill set that you've pointed to needed for reps. Adaptability, like everything that you just spoke to to me is a perfect example of what that would look like.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: So understanding your team members, what they need from multiple levels of motivation, learning styles, maybe it's their behaviors, levels of emotional intelligence or their preference in how to work and being able to meet them where they're at.

Speaker C: Yeah. And I guess with that there's a lot like you need to be self aware. So I'm curious what you've seen as signals that a leader is in the knowing but not practicing space.

Speaker B: That's a great question. That's a great question. I want to start with the caveat that all leaders want to do better. Most leaders aren't sure how and uh, ah. So to answer your question directly, they might say things like I already know this or we've talked about that but in actuality the behaviors haven't changed which points back to the level of self awareness. Yeah. And when we're thinking about it from a key difference perspective, transformation really shows up and what you do, not what you recite. So you know, we wouldn't be us if we didn't have a list or model here on the podcast.

Speaker C: 100%.

Speaker B: So I'd like to talk about in more depth the leadership habit coaching process that we use. Um, so essentially we've navigated through thousands of coaching hours with our leadership clients and teams and we've aim to embed effective leadership behaviors into daily routines through small, reputable and simple actions that are internal to our clients or to the team and supported by neuroscience based habit formation. Yes. Um, so when we're thinking about thinking about it from that perspective, it's really getting into and unpacking um, what that means. So if we can break it down into steps and I think you're going to be, you're going to be impressed with me because I've made a list. I know, I know. Uh, you're rubbing off on me. So step one is really about identifying and targeting specific high impact leadership behaviors to develop. Right. So what it, what it goes back to our original conversation around when we're thinking about elevating leadership skill sets. What is it that you want to do really? And you can do this with a coach or individually through taking your results from assessments like leadership, 360 feedbacks, self assessments on core competencies and leadership. Um, or even based on what we would dub, uh, context, uh, analysis. So basically you're looking at it from a perspective of team needs and organizational goals and where you fit.

Speaker C: Right, that makes sense. Yeah.

Speaker B: Right, yeah. So looking at simplistic examples, it's receiving daily feedback. Um, this now can be seen through our own coaching agent, Selfish Plug here. With regards to having Nova, your coach in your pocket. Reach out to us if you want to hear more about it. And then there's also recognizing team wins and asking open ended questions. So that's identifying and targeting the specifics. Step two would be around designing the tiny habits. And so this is really the friction reducer and really serves to break behaviors into tiny habits that are super easy to do. So basically what we do within this model is looking at establishing an if then statement for yourself around that skill set. Right. So after a team meeting, instead of asking what else the team needs to accomplish, I'll identify the small wins from the meeting. So we want to ensure that the habit is low effort and tied to existing routine. Um, author, I remember correctly, James Clear actually speaks a lot about this.

Speaker C: Yes, James Clear, atomic habits.

Speaker B: Yes, yes. Um, he speaks a lot about this. Yes, he does. And throws out that term. Um, automaticity. Automaticity, yes, to ensure that automaticity. Yes, to ensure that habit formation becomes overlearned, essentially like we're overlearning something. So it goes from short term to long term. Memory becomes automatic. That ties back into that step of the reps that we talked about earlier, 18 to 254. So for any of our neuroscience geeks out there, what this does is basically it's reducing our cognitive load. Um, it is leveraging the automaticity circuits in a part of our brain called the basal ganglia. Uh, the circuits in the basal ganglia which plays a major role in motor control, essentially.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: So step two, design tiny habits. Step three, you create prompts to trigger that behavior. So the objective really of this step is to identify, um, reliable environmental or behavioral cues to initiate the habits. And what this means is that you identify different types of prompt. So when we're talking about different types of prompts, it could be time. So at the end of each one, one meeting I will do this. Or it could be location when entering a meeting or joining a zoom call. Or it could be action based. So after a check in or an email or slack, what have you. So.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: The cue behavior reward habit really strengthens with consistent triggers. So it's almost like you're picturing this as like a spider web. Based on the steps because it's interconnected. Um, I interrupt for a sec.

Speaker C: We talked about a tool in several episodes of the one to two word check in at the beginning of of meeting. So if we're wanting to build the habit of more of a curious learning culture, a time based um, prompt could be at the beginning of each team meeting. I am going to initiate the two word check in. Or you know, what are the wins of the week or you know, whatever it is that you want to initiate.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you nailed that. Step four.

Speaker A: So this is the second last step.

Speaker B: What we want to do is make sure that we're reinforcing or wiring that habit, hardwiring it. Um, so probably an unpopular belief here. For adults especially, habits need to be emotionally satisfying to reinforce the rewiring or reinforcement of the habits. Um, I chuckled when I read this piece, um, of information because oftentimes you know what it's like in the workplace. We're really trying to separate the emotions out of our operations and it's just not. Not a thing. And this kind of backs it up as well. We'll save that for another day though. What this really looks like is you know, immediate self talk or acknowledgment minimally around that 1% win or growth. Um, it could also basically look like digital tracking so that you have that visual pros like that visual dopamine hit. Um, and then also too as a leader there's influencing the culture of recognition or team feedback. So, so that when these 1% shifts happen, it's not just you as a leader recognizing it internally with yourself. It could be peers, it could be your own team members, vice versa. Right. So yeah, uh, basically it's, it's like receiving a, like on a social post or a surprise gift or a bonus. Right. Like it's a, it's a motivator that's necessary for adults to stay motivated and engaged. Um, when it comes to the, the habit formation. And again from a neuroscience perspective, it gives that activation um, of the reward centers in our brain or the dopamine pathways. Um, I often say dopamine hits and I probably shouldn't because it's really about creating the positive neural pathways and that is truly what solidifies the habit loop. So oftentimes m. What we're seeing is that a lot of people talk about the physical and cognitive habits. Yes, 100% it matters. There needs to be an emotional attachment or it's not going to stay.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: And finally step five. Um, it's Iterating, scaling. So it's basically building the habit chain. Right. So you start from step one, getting to the final stage of step five and then you're gradually increasing the complexity of the impact of, of your habits from a leadership perspective. And this is where we dub habit stacking that comes into play, um, again popularized by James Clear. It's, it's not a new concept but um, one that has not been practiced a lot within leadership circles and I think is, is needed even more so so basically what I'm saying is for example when you're giving feedback, that would be one habit.

Speaker A: One.

Speaker B: Right. And then yeah, if, if you're used

Speaker C: to giving feedback layer in asking the follow up question, he uses the really basic example of if you're really bad at taking your vitamins for example, but you always make yourself a coffee or a tea. Yes. You have it stacked. So you set your vitamins right beside your coffee pot or your mug of tea. So you layer the thing that you already do.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: Uh, every day with something that maybe you forget to do because we don't prioritize it as much. So, so you pick the, as you're saying, you pick the habit you want to form the skill you want to practice, um, and layer that in with something that you already do. Mhm. And it's, it can be super powerful. So yeah, if you have ah, a standing monthly meeting that's about like feedback say you know, just make a mental note, set an intention of. I'm gonna ask a couple of open ended questions and outline you know, what, what those are ahead of time. One um, thing I've talked to a lot of our clients about, around difficult conversations, for example around using scripts. It doesn't need to be taboo because again it will not become natural feeling if you're just trying to free flow from your nervous brain every time because you're comp. You're conflict avoidant. So um, in, in the sense of building the habit of maybe asking more curious or open ended questions or uncomfortable questions. Layer it in with a meeting that you already have but also practice beforehand and, and use a script. We give you permission to do that. It will make it easier.

Speaker B: It does, it absolutely does. And I find too with a lot of leaders the, the practicing piece comes to life within the coaching atmosphere.

Speaker C: Oh absolutely.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: Because oftentimes, you know, being able to have an accountability partner or someone to hold up a mirror or someone to even just kind of navigate through a scenario as a thinking partner, uh, is super important.

Speaker C: It's really the only atmosphere folks give themselves permission to move into that, that practicing that practicing space or the uh, the adaptability space or getting to adaptability. I should say. So. Yeah. It's, it's the one defined space where folks feel comfortable to practice while they make their way to being adaptable.

Speaker B: And yeah, I like where we've set it up in the sense of like, okay, how do you navigate through this as an individual leader? I want to zoom out. How do you foster a, uh, practice culture? And what I mean by that is how can leaders personify, exemplify what have you to help their teams move from knowing to practicing? So it's, it's a standard thing that's just done within the department.

Speaker C: Yeah. I mean we've, we've said it even in previous episodes, but make it safe to experiment.

Speaker B: Mm.

Speaker C: So it's as simple as a leader saying we're all learning this together or let's pry it out and reflect on how it felt. So I think it's giving language to curiosity and it will build that culture of it's okay to make mistakes or try stuff out. Um, we want applied learning, not perfection. Mhm. Because in the land of perfection, we'll probably all just pretend again, we stay in our head. We know we don't actually walk the talk. So second, I would say embed the reps. So, you know, build in five minute reflection moments. Use team check ins to ask what's one leadership habit or um, communication habit you're working on this week?

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: And then, and then, I mean point blank, you just need to model it. Share your own imperfect attempts. Um, just say things like, I notice myself reacting in that meeting. Next time I want to pause and ask a better question. That's leadership and practice. That's what builds trust and that's what starts to build different, stronger habits.

Speaker B: Exactly. And um, this model really, this kind of modeling essentially is really powerful. It shifts the energy from performative leadership to authentic growth. Right. It's uh, it's more so focusing on the collective versus the individuals. Right?

Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. That's a great, that's a great way to put it, I would say. Yeah. If we're moving from knowing to practicing, it's absolutely individual to collective growth. I think those. That's a great way to put it. Well done. Yeah.

Speaker B: Thank you. Yeah.

Speaker C: Because people don't follow perfect leaders.

Speaker B: No.

Speaker C: It creates distance and separation. They follow people who are practicing and they see them as being leaders because they see honest growth and openness.

Speaker B: Yeah. The word authentic comes up for me when you say that.

Speaker C: Exactly.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Authentic leadership for sure.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: So that's our third episode in the Back to Basics series, Knowing to Practicing. The smartest leader in the room is the one who's willing to do the reps.

Speaker C: Yes. Leadership isn't a checklist, it's a daily discipline. We'll say so the more we embody what we value, the more real and effective our leadership becomes.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: I would say.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: I. I tend to agree with that statement. I think that's perfect. Wanting to give a shout out to all of our listeners across the globe. Thank you so much. If you're not subscribing to us yet, please make sure you do and share. And take one small action this week to move from knowing to practicing. We'll see you next time for episode four, Performing to Relating.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: Take good care.

Speaker A: Thanks for listening to the Human side of Business podcast. I'm glad you could join us. If you enjoyed today's episode and want to stay updated with our latest content, make sure to visit our website. The link can be found in the episode description where you can subscribe to the podcast. Sign up for our newsletter and learn more about our whole person Life Leadership Services.

Speaker B: Sounds interesting.

Speaker A: Explore the Whole Person Leadership Cohort by Intuitive Performance, a unique program that offers unparalleled support to managers on every step

Speaker B: of their leadership journey.

Speaker A: Our program features evidence based assessments, workbooks, group coaching, and interactive learning experiences to help you level up your leadership skills. Reach out today to apply to one of our upcoming cohorts.

Speaker B: Until next time, take care and stay curious.

Speaker A: Thanks for listening to the Human side of Business podcast. I'm glad you could join us. If you enjoyed today's episode and want to stay updated with our latest content, make sure to visit our website. The link can be found in the episode description where you can subscribe to the podcast. Sign up for our newsletter and learn more about our Whole Person Leadership Services.

Speaker B: Sounds interesting.

Speaker A: Explore the Whole Person Leadership Cohort by Intuitive Performance, a unique program that offers unparalleled support to managers on every step

Speaker B: of their leadership journey.

Speaker A: Our program features evidence based assessments, workbooks, group coaching, and interactive learning experiences to help you level up your leadership skills.

Speaker B: Reach out today to apply to one

Speaker A: of our upcoming cohorts.

Speaker B: Until next time, take care and stay curious.