Truths Every HR & Leadership Professional Needs to Hear | Enter the Vault #3 | The HR L&D Podcast

Guest: Everybody's making it up. All the successful people jumped before they were ready.

Guest: Take more risks. Don't be afraid. Just be fearless. You only live once, you only work once.

Guest: And you've got to believe in what you're doing. Don't just do something you think that's going to make your money.

Guest: Without being authoritarian.

Guest: Yeah.

Guest: No.

Guest: You can be decisive without being autocratic. You can be detail oriented without being distrusting.

Alex: Walk away from cvs. Focus on skill based hiring full stop.

Speaker G: Look at, really analyze what you're doing and where you want to go. Talk about it.

Nick Day: What does it feel like when onboarding, payroll compliance and even IT access all through one platform. It feels like everything finally works together and HR finally has room to scale. Deal brings global people operations into one place. So new hires start strong, workflows stay compliant and teams move faster. See it in action at d e l.com nickdayhr Imagine sitting down with the most influential HR and leadership thinkers in the world and then asking every single one of them the same four questions. Now imagine hearing their answers back to back, distilled into pure wisdom. Today you don't have to imagine. Today is a special episode of the HR LND Podcast where we unlock the HR LND Vault, which is our curated collection of the most powerful insights, lessons and truths that have been shared by the people who are shaping the future of work. From the guests I've had on this show. And they include behavioral scientists, chros, psychologists, L and D directors, founders, futurists, and

Co-host: the occasional spiritual leader as well.

Nick Day: And these are the answers that stop me in my tracks. The ones that changed how I think. And they may just change how you think too. They're the ideas that keep rippling out across organizations all over the world. My name's Nick Day. I'm um, CEO at JGA Recruitment Group and the host of this show. If you're new to the HR L&D Podcast, welcome. Please do remember to click, subscribe or follow and if you can leave us

Co-host: a five star review.

Nick Day: Today we are connecting the wisdom of the leaders that are redefining what it means to work, live and thrive in the modern world. So without further ado, let's open the vault. Well, let's open the HRMD Vault. Some short, sharp questions for you.

Co-host: The first is this.

Nick Day: What's the one thing you now know

Guest: that you wish you'd known at the beginning of your career? M. Wow.

Guest: The one thing I wish I knew then, that I know now. Everybody's making it up.

Guest: Okay.

Guest: And I don't mean that in the con artist sense. I mean it in the sense that all the successful people jumped before they were ready. And I have the privilege of working with some very senior people in many industries, and I don't take that privilege lightly. Um, I have access to some really superbly intelligent and resourceful, um, and kind people. They've done very well in the world of business, and even they are racked with doubts and even they don't know what they're doing 100% of the time. And that's okay. Yeah. Because you. When I'm 21 and I think back and I'm looking up at these people, I'm thinking, I've got it all figured out. So maybe a better way to phrase it would be there's no adults in

Guest: the room or no one's figured it out.

Co-host: I mean, imposter syndrome is right at all levels of market.

Guest: Yeah, I think that's. I think that's powerful. Yeah. What's the overriding quality for you that you've seen in every great leader that you've worked with? Oh,

Guest: I can only pick one.

Co-host: You're forcing me. I am forcing you.

Guest: One. Calm.

Guest: Okay.

Guest: Calmness. Because, I mean, one of my favorite leaders, and he's become a very dear friend of mine, James Riley, uh, he won't mind me mentioning him because it's all positive. Uh, former CEO of the Mandarin Oriental Group, he said on my podcast, calm is strength. And he learned that from his mentor. Calm is strength. If when all is turbulent around you and you can keep your head, people will gravitate towards you because they think the whole world is falling apart. But if you, as leader, it's okay. We'll be all right. That calmness spreads. Um, so they all have that.

Guest: The good ones. Nice. I had, uh, a previous guest in the show that talked about having people that follow you or having all being part of a membership. And she said that followers, you can find followers easier than you can find. Someone's really bought into a membership. You know, that, that idea that this person's got me and I want to be part of that club.

Guest: Yeah.

Guest: It's slightly different having people sort of blindly, which is different. I'm interested to know you've used this as a soundbite today and I've mentioned it a couple of times because it resonated with me. You've been teaching me my listeners today. Mhm. But two people have been learning.

Guest: Yeah.

Guest: What have you learned today?

Guest: I've learned that it's related to listening. I'm not Actually, the best listener in the world, because there's a couple of moments today where you've been making a lovely point and my temptation. So it comes from a good place. So for me, I'm a very active listener. I do that.

Speaker G: Um.

Guest: Uh. Uh-huh.

Speaker J: Huh.

Guest: Yeah. And on a podcast, that doesn't work because now I'm messing up the sound

Co-host: for the mixes later.

Guest: And sometimes I just need to let the other person cook. I just need to let you run with it. And my instinct is I want to actually show support that I'm listening. But dependent on the context in the environment, sometimes it's better just to shut up.

Co-host: What you say is, you already know where I was going. You can stop now.

Nick Day: I know what the question is.

Guest: It doesn't need me working on shutting up sometimes and letting the other person finish their sentence. Um, because it shows respect and it shows that I don't just want to jump in. And often it. It does come from a good place, but it's not helpful sometimes.

Guest: That's what I've learned. Last question. What do you believe is your greatest skill? But equally, I believe there's a dark side to every positive. What's on the dark side of the. Of your greatest skill? What's the cost of it?

Guest: Well, yeah, we said it earlier. Your superpower is next to your deepest wound. Um, for me, sensitivity. Uh, my sensitivity allows me to understand what the audience needs, and that's why my messages can land. But also, I feel everything too deeply. I feel things too personally. I take criticism very personally sometimes. Um, I don't have the tough skin necessary to, I think, be in the public eye sometimes. I'm better at it than I used to be. So I think it's the gift and the curse.

Guest: Full transparency.

Co-host: I hope you don't mind me sharing, but we've cried together, right?

Guest: Yes, we have.

Guest: Yeah, we have.

Co-host: I think it's a strength. I think that vulnerability and that ability

Guest: for us both to be comfortable in the same space dealing with difficult issues, uh, is a real strength in the superpower, for sure.

Nick Day: If you could change one thing about

Co-host: the world of HR overnight, what would

Nick Day: it be and why overnight?

Guest: I would really like to see this as a recognized strategic function. Uh, I think that's really, really important. It seems to be a side function that supports everyone else after the fact. Quite reactive. I would like to see it be a strategic function overnight.

Co-host: Perfect.

Guest: Side by side with finance and the CEO.

Guest: Yeah.

Co-host: Great. I'm sure many of my listeners will be in full agreement with you on that one as well.

Nick Day: What's one piece of advice you now know which you wish you'd known when

Co-host: you began your career.

Guest: Take more risks. Don't be afraid. Just be. Just be fearless. You only live once. You only work once. Go big or go home.

Co-host: Yeah, well, I'm very passionate about the world of the psychology of fear. I couldn't agree more with that statement.

Nick Day: Uh, what's one learning habit?

Co-host: So specific question for you here that every leader should try and build in 2026.

Guest: Read something new from someone you don't know every day. It can be on LinkedIn, it can be a newspaper, but someone you don't know.

Co-host: I love that.

Guest: Keep you in a growth mindset. New perspectives.

Co-host: Very good.

Nick Day: And last, but no means least, a little bit of fun. If hr.

Co-host: If you could summarize HR as either

Nick Day: a quote, a song, a movie, or a book, you can choose which you prefer, what would it be and why?

Guest: This is a tough one. Uh, I feel like it should be a song. Uh, I'm totally drawing a blank. Yeah, I have one. A Wayne Gretzky quote. Uh, you miss 100% of the shots you never take. It kind of goes back to the fear piece. But I think if you're in the people business, I think, uh, we should say we should feel that we should take more shots and we should encourage other people to take more shots within an organization. And actually, so that would be the

Co-host: quote that links nicely back to the thing I mentioned earlier where luck isn't. There's no such thing as being prepared for opportunity. Right. Go and take your opportunity and have a go at it.

Nick Day: What is one book, resource or idea that's really shaped how you think about

Co-host: hiring or building teams?

Alex: One idea. Have a beer with the candidate.

Co-host: Yeah, I like that.

Alex: Yeah, have a be with the candidate. Even if it's like, you know, okay, if he. If he or she are up to it. But if you can have this during the, uh, interview process. This is magic.

Co-host: Yeah, I mean, it really goes back to the point you just made about, you know, this myth. Everyone's in the headphones and head down. You know, developers and engineers, they've got families, they've got outside pursuits, they've got interests. You know, you only really get under the hood of that when you meet someone face to face and have that kind of, or, you know, have that deep kind of level of conversation that goes beyond the job spec. And I think that's a really good opportunity to do that. So it's great advice.

Nick Day: If you could give one Piece of

Co-host: uh, advice to an HR leader who's listening to this at the moment about hiring their first engineer or their first developer, uh, what would it be?

Alex: Wow, this is a tough one. This is a tough one. Advice would be find through your network somebody that already been through the first hiring or a few hirings, done the mistakes. Before you even start looking at the talent market, just have a conversation with a peer that has done it. Okay. And before, don't jump into the talent market because the CEO CTO told you that. You uh, don't have a CTO because it's your first one. You are the cto, you are the leader, you are the everything because most likely the CEO told you we need to hire something or whatever. Right. Don't run to the talent market. Talk to somebody from the industry.

Co-host: Yeah. And you'd be surprised how many people in the industry are happy to support as well. They've often faced the same challenges and it's a great way to build your peer to peer network work. Of course I'll do a little plug for you and there will be a link in the show notes for those interested in finding more about ath, but you can go to Atef AI as well and really get to grips with the platform there. And for those that do want to find out more, please do look at the show notes and click straight through to, to uh, to to that link and you can get access to all the kind of tools and things we've been discussing today.

Nick Day: So question three, in hindsight, what's the one thing you wish you knew at

Co-host: the very start of your career?

Alex: I would hire a professional in house HR leader much earlier because when you start the business you normally focus on, on sales, on marketing operations and we actually start looked at, you know, the HR function and I'm going back to the beginning of our conversation where I said this is the infrastructure. Once you go beyond 10, 15 employees have hire an HR professional if not part time, if not full time, then part time. This is ah, as early as possible as commercially financially you can afford. We hired, we created an HR function too late into the game and it was very costly in missed opportunities, internal frictions and you name it.

Nick Day: You know I've got a similar story.

Co-host: We're not business anything like the size of yours, uh, Alex. But um, I think I didn't really hire an in house HR director for our firm, H1 OPS director until 2011. We launched in 2008. And uh, what I'll say is when we hired that individual, I've said now it would be the first time I made if I started again because it freed up my time and my other actually senior sales guys time to go

Nick Day: and do what we do best.

Co-host: It's amazing how much time is pulled aside when you're trying to manage things that aren't in my area of expertise in the world of HR and people management and organization development and inclusion, all those things. And actually having an expert on hand to take that work off you so I can focus on what I do

Nick Day: well, it changed our business.

Co-host: It changed almost overnight. So I think it's great advice and I think it is one of those things we often as business owners, entrepreneurs, we think about later in the cycle. But you have to learn and then you go back and go, if I did it differently now, I'd be the same as you.

Alex: Yeah. Remember this is, this is your infrastructure.

Co-host: Yeah. This is your infrastructure as we started the show.

Nick Day: Well, it's my last one.

Co-host: This is probably a little bit more specific to your background, but what's one evidence early practice.

Nick Day: Any team, any tech or non tech

Co-host: could start using tomorrow to improve their engineering hires.

Alex: Wow. One. Well, if, if there is one to choose I would go back to and I already mentioned this is forget about the title Sit.

Co-host: Yeah.

Alex: If you're more than two guys or girls or whatever in the development team, understand what is exactly you want this, the new team member to deliver the next 90 days and based on that go out to the talent market. Not based on a title, not on. Based. You've. I've seen a nice TV and then I will look for somebody like this. No. What is exactly you need the first 90 days to be delivered.

Co-host: Yeah. And actually this advice is, is usable across any sector. It doesn't have to be in tech or development or engineers. I think this is really sage advice across any level of hiring across your business. I really do. I think this is absolutely critical. Doesn't have to be tech related, to be honest. I just think it's just good recruitment advice.

Nick Day: So when you look at the future, then you know, you've built Atelev. Uh, you've. What's the legacy that you want to leave? What's the hiring philosophy you hope the organizations will, will take on as a

Co-host: result of this organization as they try and hire engineers and tech talent, they

Alex: will walk away from using CVS full stop.

Guest: Interesting.

Co-host: I think it'll happen by the way. It will happen. I think the homogenization of it through AI is devaluing the CV every single day. Um, so it'll be an interesting future for sure.

Alex: Walk away from cvs. Focus on skill based hiring. Full stop.

Nick Day: HR leaders. I know you're driving culture transformation, engagement and now digital reinvention as well, but none of that works without the right people in the right seats. I'm Nick Day, host of this podcast, but also founder of JGA Recruitment Group and here's what I hear every week from top HR leaders. They say, nick, we can't find the talent. It's our biggest challenge and when we do, we can't retain them. Well, that's where we come in. At uh, jga, we specialize in HR recruitment and only HR recruitment. From executive search assignments, placing chros to contingency hires, finding HR pros to global HR transformational contract placements, and every people role in between. Across every vertical and at every single level, we know where the top people are, what motivates them, and most importantly, how to get them excited about your opportunity, even if they're not actively looking. With engagement rates over 90%, we don't rely on job boards, we rely on relationships. We place fast, we place right. And we do it in a way that reflects your brand, your values and your goals. So if you're building a strategic HR function, please, please don't leave it to chance. Visit JJRecruitment.com or reach out to me directly and let's build the future of work together. If I am an HR leader, perhaps listening to this, to everything you've said, I'm m going to get into that paradigm shift. I'm going to try and do those, do those deliverables to really unleash the potential. But perhaps something in their life, something a leadership role, has meant that they've done something that may have lost the trust of their employees. They're desperately scrambling to get it back, whatever that might be. Maybe they have micromanaged, maybe they've made an accusation, whatever it is, maybe it's their personal lives, not even professional, but they've done something in their mind that's catastrophic, that has lost the trust of

Co-host: one employee or all their employees.

Nick Day: And I think what you've said is great, Stephen, but how do I get there when I've lost it? Can you get it back? What would you do?

Speaker K: Yeah.

Guest: My short answer is I believe you can in most situations. There may be a few situations where the nature of the loss of trust might be so egregious. And uh, then maybe the nature of the relationship is more transactional, where people just move on and you don't have a Chance to get it back. But I think in most situations you can restore it if you're willing to pay the price and if others give you a chance to. And so here's the key. Learning. You can't talk your way out of a problem that you behave your way into. So if we've lost people's trust through our behavior, words alone won't get it back. The only way to get it back is through behavior. We have to behave our way back into trust just like you behaved your way out of it. And so we've got to kind of confront reality that we've lost the trust and we got to own it, be accountable for it, take responsibility. It's hard to restore trust with another if you're saying it's their fault. You got to own it.

Guest: Ah.

Guest: And then you got to right the wrong. And that might include apologizing. In some cases, that's a very good thing to do. It takes humility. It might include making restitution, making up for it. Restitution is a legal concept that means to make whole you do the best you can to right the wrong. Then you've got to clarify expectations going forward of what you're going to do to try to regain re establish re earn people's trust. You tell m them what you're going to do. Then the most important thing is now you've got to keep the commitment you just made. You got to do what you said you were going to do. And if you do this, if you're willing to kind of be humble about this and take it on, own it, make it right, and tell them what you're going to do and now do what you say you're going to do. It's possible to actually behave your way back into trust. It takes you longer. You know, you can destroy it overnight. It takes you a lot longer to get it back. But it's possible in most situations. And the people, the companies, the leaders that do this can regain re establish this trust with others, with other stakeholders in most situations. And so that's hopeful. And I would just preface all of this with right up front as a leader. Declare your intent and you might even say, look, I recognize that I maybe don't have the level of trust I need to have. I've lost it and I want to do what I need to do to reestablish it, to regain it, to restore it. That is my intent and I'm willing to earn it through my behavior. I'm not asking my words to be sufficient. I want to demonstrate it through my behavior.

Co-host: There's a chapter in your book, um, Steven, that you've titled what Trust and

Nick Day: inspire is, is not.

Co-host: Can you elaborate a little bit on that?

Guest: Yeah. I think this is critical, especially for HR leaders who are going to be helping the organization transition really from command and control to trust and inspire. And uh, the danger is you're going to have some managers that kind of feel like, gosh, well this trust and inspire is this is too soft or this is weak or this is not real leadership. This is not being in charge. And you know, and it's kind of there. It's almost be. It would be framing trust and inspire as kind of the opposite of command and control, which they might see as strong, decisive leadership and. No, the opposite of command and control is abdicate and abandon. That means, you know, I've moved from being hands on to being completely hands off where I'm not leading anymore. And that's not trust and inspire. Trust and inspire is a third alternative that means I'm going hand in hand.

Co-host: Sure.

Guest: And um, you know, so it's not excessively hands on where I'm hovering and micromanaging that command and control. But it's not hands off where I'm not lean and I've abandoned and abdicated instead, it's hand in hand and, and um, it's not soft, it's actually strong. It takes great strength to be trust and aspire. And it shows great strength because you're clear on who you are. It's just like there's great strength in being vulnerable. That's not vulnerability, is not a weakness, it's a strength. It shows. It's the greatest measure of courage, as Brene Brown says. And you can have a lot of vision and still have a trust inspired leadership and be a visionary leader. I like to say you can be a authoritative without being authoritarian, you can be decisive without being autocratic, you can be detail oriented without being distrusting, you can be strong without being forceful, you can be compelling without being compulsory. You can be in charge and have control without being controlling. And that's the whole idea of trust and inspire. It is strong and it's a better way to lead in a new world. And so I think it's important that we don't kind of default to what some might see of, uh, well, gosh, command and control is this, we need this kind of leadership in our world today. No, actually people don't want to be managed, they want to be led. And command and control, its expiration date has Passed. It doesn't work anymore. And it's not what the new people, new generations want. It's less effective. You're not going to build a great culture doing that and retain and inspire the best people or bring out the best in people. And you're not going to be able to collaborate and innovate with command and control. Instead, trust and inspire is a better way to, to build that high trust culture that inspires and to be able to create the collaboration and the innovation to stay relevant through trust and inspire. And it's strong, it's authoritative without being authoritarian. Um, and so it's a third alternative from abdicate and abandon or command and control. Trust and inspire. And so I think it's important because some people will kind of automatically default to, this is nice, but it's not real world or this, you know, this is weak. No, this is the strongest form of leadership there is. It takes great courage to go along with the humility.

Co-host: Yeah.

Nick Day: And your passion, your knowledge, your energy.

Co-host: I mean, it's inspiring in itself, Stephen. It really is. And I think everything you're saying for me anyway, and hopefully for my listeners, is absolutely hitting home.

Nick Day: Um, it's a fantastic book.

Co-host: Trust and inspire said it's going to be in the show notes.

Nick Day: You can absolutely grab yourself a copy.

Co-host: It's going to be on Amazon, so I'll put a link on there as well.

Nick Day: But it'd be remiss of me, Stephen, not to ask with some of the amazing leaders you've worked with, 55 countries, you mentioned some amazing CEOs, some of the industry, world's industry leading, uh, leaders and professionals. I have to ask you, what is the, where is leadership going? What's the next big thing?

Co-host: Um, how are you seeing leadership going forward?

Guest: The next big thing is inspiration. Inspirational leadership. This is where, as Wayne Gretzky says, he skates to where the puck is going to be. That's what made him a great hockey player. Where the puck is going in leadership is towards inspiration. Inspiration is the new engagement. Um, inspiration is the next frontier of engagement. I am all in favor of engagement. We have been focusing on engagement for 20, 25 years, and we need to remain focused on engagement. But there is another, another frontier. Uh, uh, and that's inspiration. And there's data from Bain Co. That shows this, that inspired employees are even 56% more productive than engaged employees.

Alex: Wow.

Co-host: What great statistic.

Guest: Yeah.

Guest: And they're 125% more productive than merely satisfied employees. We all know that satisfied is not enough. That's why we've moved to engagement. But I'm saying engagement is not enough. The next frontier is inspiration. And that's why specifically this leadership style is called trust and inspire. And um, as you know, as opposed to command and control, you trust and inspire. And there's three stewardships to it. Modeling, trusting, inspiring. Modeling is who we are. Trusting is how we lead. Inspiring is connecting to why, to why it matters. And um, and so this is a, this is, that's where it's going. And I'm trying to name it. See, a lot of people are kind of, most people will come to the conclusion that, that we need to move away from command and control.

Co-host: I think most people say, I agree

Guest: that, I agree with that. And yet the data shows that about 9 in 10 organizations are still operating in some form of command and control. So we were to know and not to do is not to know. So we know we need to move, but we're still, we're still trapped in command and control cultures, industries, structures, etc. We need to move to trust and inspire. What I'm trying to do is name where we need to go, describe what it is that we need to be doing in this new name, trust and inspire. And that is modeling, trusting and inspiring. It's that simple. And then, and then try to give examples and models of, of leaders who are doing it and how to do it. And so I might just mention, I mentioned Eric Yuan. He's a trust and inspired leader. Um, Satya Nadella, Microsoft. He literally revitalized and transformed Microsoft through his leadership style. He's a trust inspired leader. He modeled, he trusted, he inspired and he continues to do so. They call it model care, Model Coach Care. It's the same three stewardships. Modeling, trusting and inspiring. He revitalized Microsoft. Their stock price under him is uh, up about 10 times. But more than that, they're winning in the workplace. They got a great culture again that brings in the best people and they're collaborating and innovating again. Um, Cheryl Bachelder, she ran Popeye's Chicken in the United States. A big franchise system and huge that had gone through multiple leaders in the past under the traditional models of leadership, command and control, even enlightened command and control. She came in trust and inspire type leadership. She modeled, she trust and inspire night and day. Turnaround in those two imperatives went in the workplace when in the marketplace. And their economic performance, their financial results also extraordinary. Six, seven times multiple on their stock, um, and so forth. And um, there's Many leaders that are doing this, we need those kind of leaders today. We need models who can become mentors of um, this trust inspired leadership. So people can see this is a better way to lead where you not only get better results but you also grow your people. And so for HR professionals, that's why I really hope that this book you'll find will be valuable because the subtitle of the book how, uh, Truly Great Leaders Unleash Greatness in Others. That's what we do in hr.

Nick Day: Absolutely. What a great. Well, I couldn't agree more. If you could change one thing about the HR community overnight or the HR industry rather, what would it be?

Speaker G: It just needs to go back to, to the basics of really looking, looking after the, the staff, really looking after people. Back to the people element.

Co-host: I agree, I agree. All this talk about AI, but we need to look after, we need to

Speaker G: look after our people because they're our most valuable resource.

Alex: I agree.

Nick Day: Question 2. What's one thing you now know that

Co-host: you wish you'd known when you began your career?

Speaker G: Don't be too frightened of things. Just, just go for it.

Co-host: Oh, I love that. Uh, just go for it. Just do it. As the light emblem would say.

Nick Day: Love that. What's one behavior every organization should adopt tomorrow to become more purpose led in the future?

Speaker G: Look at, really analyze what, what you're, what you're doing and where you want to go. Talk about it. Have that conversation that we initially had, Nick, that sparked all of this about values, about culture, what you want to create and then from what you want to create, Nick, you've rolled it down and, and it's, and this is what we have. We have, we have a company where um, we can all have an input and we can all be really proud

Co-host: of it and we can all have an impact and you know, we're a great place to work as well. I know there was uh, just uh, to give you some kudos here and champion you a little bit more. You've also helped us get great place to work status for the last three years. So, you know, it's something we're really passionate about.

Nick Day: And sometimes those questions are challenging, aren't they?

Co-host: Sometimes you're not going to get the

Nick Day: feedback that you always want. But that's how we improve.

Co-host: You need the truth as well as

Speaker G: the, we need to listen always. Yeah. Uh, you know, take on board. You know, it's not always the nice things. It might be something that's a criticism and that's fine too because we all have to Grow. I think it's listening is. Is important.

Co-host: I always say, are you a hippo or an elephant? Have you got a big mouth or big ears?

Nick Day: Both need to be used at different

Co-host: times, but for this you definitely need

Nick Day: to be an elephant.

Speaker G: I think both. But I think if the intention is good, if your intentions are good and you genuinely want to make some progress and create something, then B Corp is a great way to go. But you have to be really genuine about that. Aim.

Nick Day: If you could change one thing about

Co-host: the world of HR leadership overnight, what would it be and why?

Speaker J: I could change one thing, what would

Nick Day: it be and why?

Speaker J: I would change the structure of our day to allow more freedom for the brain to think.

Guest: Perfect.

Co-host: Uh, love that. You may have already given this answer away, but I'll ask the question anyway.

Nick Day: What's one piece of advice you'd wish

Co-host: you'd been given earlier in your career?

Speaker J: Ask. You don't need to know it all.

Co-host: Yeah, for sure. For someone that has optimized brain, body, mind, all those things together, what's one

Nick Day: daily habit that you use or utilize every single day that's really helped you

Co-host: to optimize your own performance?

Speaker J: The Nike tagline, just do it.

Guest: Just do it.

Speaker J: I think I can get stuck in thinking and procrastinating and making up excuses, and I just say, action. One step. What's one step you can take? Just do it.

Guest: Yeah, fantastic.

Nick Day: And my last question. I'm not.

Co-host: I usually say, if HR was the

Nick Day: one thing, but let's change this to leadership. So if you could sum up today's modern world of leadership, so as you

Co-host: see the world now, the leaders that

Nick Day: you work with, into a song, a

Co-host: movie, a book or a quote, what would it be and why?

Speaker J: Wow. Can you repeat that question? Yeah.

Nick Day: If you were to summarize modern leadership in the world that you're working in right now as a song, a movie,

Co-host: a quote or a book, what would it be and why? Not an easy question, but it's a bit of fun. You can go anywhere you like with this.

Speaker J: Define gravity.

Nick Day: Okay. Yeah, that works. It works. It's good. And it was a tough question to answer.

Speaker J: I think we could all do it, right? Everybody feels the weight. They've got a rucksack on their back of the internal self. Talk or beliefs or baggage or things you're carrying. Just let it go and defy gravity and you can fly.

Nick Day: What's one piece of advice you wish you'd been given at the start of your career that you now know it's

Guest: really Difficult because it was such a trial and error doing everything and I had such limited resource. I built the business from nothing. And like the vice would be, it's almost. Yeah, uh, you need other people, but I couldn't afford other people at the time. You need a team. You can't. But I'll take that. I'll take that back though, because I did have people who were, who are lovely and stepped in and helped me. You can't do it on your own. You do need to find people to support you and get their expertise in different areas because you can't wear all the hats all the time.

Guest: Sure.

Guest: So you need to find people who can support you, give Lynn their expertise. And yeah, you have to have the passion for it too because running, starting and running your own business, you start out very. Oh yeah, this will be fine. But it is a labor of love.

Co-host: It is a labor of love.

Guest: You've got to love and you've got to believe in what you're doing. Don't just do something you think that's going to make your money. It really has to be a crossover where they have that like, nice little diagram word crosses over.

Co-host: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Guest: Love and money. It has the passion has to be there. Because if you don't fully believe it, and that's what I do love about my job too. Because it's not just the thing that makes me money, it's putting good out into the world. So that's why I really believe in it.

Co-host: There's another saying, I think it says, if you don't chase, the money will chase you. So that's the key. Follow your passion and it'll come.

Nick Day: If you could give one piece of

Co-host: advice to a one uh, of my listeners that will help them in 2026, what would it be?

Guest: One piece of advice. Take some time to understand this. Like people, they're like, oh, I got so many things to do, I'm so busy, I gotta blah, blah, blah. But if you don't take time to actually understand how fear is sabotaging you, fear will keep sabotaging you and you'll actually miss out on more. So my biggest advice is, yeah, take that time. It's actually not wasted time. It is so important. Take that time of self care. Explore what you need to nurture and grow and change.

Nick Day: What's the most common fear you've seen

Co-host: in leaders that you've worked with that perhaps they would never admit to?

Guest: I think it is really much that classic and it's probably why you do it the imposter syndrome. Fake it till you make it. But people always don't believe they're good enough or I don't have enough experience, I don't have enough extracies. I'm an imposter in this role. And therefore that fear holds them back from progressing into a new, a more challenging role. So it sounds cliche, but it is really one of the. As you become a leader, that is the biggest challenge.

Co-host: Cliches exist for a reason, for reasons. Because it's common and it's true. Yeah.

Nick Day: I guess one of.

Co-host: Maybe the one I'm most interested in

Nick Day: here is what's the one fear every

Co-host: leader needs to confront if they need to. If they're going to unlock their full potential?

Guest: It's. It is generally okay to mess up. It's okay to make big mistakes. It's okay to fail.

Guest: Yeah.

Guest: Again, it's kind of cliche. But going back, the failure is an ancient caveman survival instinct, because back, uh, in those days, if we weren't good at everything, then we could be the one that was left behind, rejected. And so it's a very primitive fear within us, especially if you're a leader, because that's even more pressure to be the one that everyone looks up to, to perform, to be perfect. But actually, now I think the best leaders are one people who can be authentically open about their weaknesses and their struggles and where them. I messed up here. Um, I can own up to that. And I think people who follow them actually respect that a lot more.

Co-host: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Guest: And actually, even business partners and having that transparency and just no, I messed up. Uh, this wasn't. This is my bad. I didn't. It's fine. I've recognized my mistakes. I can see where I can improve here. But yeah, just taking that ownership and not again, like, not letting your inner caveman beat you up over that.

Co-host: Yeah.

Nick Day: And people buy into vulnerability, don't they?

Co-host: That's what's so successful.

Guest: Yeah, it's okay. It is okay. And that is actually a character trait that is actually really respected and admired that people don't realize that's actually way more just trying to cover up your mistakes.

Speaker K: People don't respect that.

Co-host: I agree.

Guest: I agree.

Co-host: And I think it's better to fail than to not. Than not to try. I think that's one thing. Uh, my friend of mine, Harry, said that the acronym fail first attempt in learning. It's how we learn. It's how we get that growth mindset. We've got to lean into it and see where it takes us. The opportunities will come somewhere, but they won't come if you don't try and you don't put yourself out there.

Nick Day: If you could change the HR profession

Co-host: overnight, what change would you make and why?

Speaker K: I would, um, I would professionalize it, um, so I would require there to be, um, some continuous professional development. As psychologists, ah, have to go through, lawyers have to go through, doctors have to go through. And actually involvo group, we ensure that engineers had to go through. So that professional of doing your job is gonna. It actually takes you backwards. Doing your job and growing as a professional is going to keep you, um, future proof. So I think I would professionalize it. I don't think I've seen an HR career path yet. The job, um, around how to develop your professional HR skills in a meaningful way across a career. So I think that's, that's the first thing, um, that I would probably do.

Co-host: Funny, it's a full circle thing. Going back to Trayton's quote, you don't need to be able to get. So, you know, uh, sometimes we may have to. While it's not in existence at the moment, the way that you see it, sometimes you have to take that upon ourselves to, you know, actually, how can I advance, as you said earlier, with the advice you're giving to new people coming into the profession, if it's not existing in hr, what other skills could benefit you a little later on? And take that on. Hopefully the companies will fund it. What's one piece of a career advice you wish you'd received earlier in your own career?

Speaker K: Oh, my goodness. Um, um, what would I have done earlier?

Speaker J: Um,

Speaker K: I received so much. I was so lucky. I think I received so much good advice. Um, I think that, um, maybe falling, taking a leap into the abyss, um, is, uh, a prerequisite for original thinking.

Nick Day: Oh, I love that.

Speaker K: I wish people had just said that to me. That actually the pain and the awfulness of it is a prerequisite for coming up with something that hasn't been done before. Um, and I thought it was about building on what was already there and finding the next step in thinking. That's how my first PhD went. I looked at that, did that literature review, thought about a new hypothesis and then built on that. But actually original thinking requires you to take the leap. So I wish, I wish I'd understood that a bit earlier.

Alex: I love that.

Co-host: I know it for my own journey. I won't share everything with everybody today, but you mentioned trauma, and there's big T trauma and small T trauma and they're not about comparing one to somebody else's. But I do think there are positives to be found in every element of trauma that I've come across. Sometimes you have to really be deep. You can find positives and I think that kind of links some that original thinking as well. Um, I'll use one case I've shared before. My 16 year old daughter now when she was 13, had a food eating disorder. But actually on the back of that, terrifying. As a parent at the time it was very serious. But now she's really passionate about helping others. She's found a direction.

Nick Day: All those things have come out on

Co-host: the back of what was a really difficult time. Of course it could have gone a different direction, but we are where we are and it teaches you to look at the positives in sometimes dark situations. So I think it, uh, doesn't surprise me that you have to be in the abyss to find the original thinking as well. Really, really like that. What is one uncomfortable truth that HR leaders you think HR leaders should face if they generally want to evolve?

Speaker K: I think I'd go back to the beginning. At the risk of repeating myself, I'd say that maybe we don't need HR anymore.

Speaker G: Okay.

Speaker K: Um, maybe we don't need it.

Co-host: That'll be interesting. Please comment. I'd love to get people's comments here.

Nick Day: That's a good, it's good to see. Let's see, let's see how they reflect.

Co-host: This is all about reflection and awareness, right?

Nick Day: So this is a really positive devil's advocate. Maybe

Co-host: we need to think about these things. If you want to come up with some original thinking and ideas, how we move it forward. I think it's a great response. I really do. You know what I mean?

Speaker K: Other little thing that I would say in the back of that is I think private equity is the furthest along in, in having that conversation with itself. So I'll just leave it there.

Co-host: That is interesting. Well, last one's a little bit more fun, a little bit more, uh, upbeat, I guess from some of the law of the conversation today.

Nick Day: But if HR was a song, a movie, a book, or a quote, what

Co-host: would it be and why?

Speaker K: Um, oh, gosh, that's difficult. I wish you'd given me some prep time. Um, uh, okay, so I think it's an Emily Dickinson quote which I, I think I trot out from nearly everything. So, um, so let me think. I, uh, don't want to misquote. Um, so here it is. Much madness is divinest sense. Uh, to the discerning eye much sense the starkest madness. Uh, tis the majority in this as all prevails, um, uh, ascent and you are sane, demure, you're straightaway dangerous and handled with a chain. So that for me is the conundrum that HR finds itself in more often than not require needing to dissent, uh, but then thinking that will be too dangerous, uh, and more often than not, then assenting, ah, uh, and then finding that it becomes part of the problem rather than the enabler of the solution.

Nick Day: And there you have it. A rare chance to hear the sharpest answers for some of the brightest minds in hr, uh, and leadership from around the world. If any of these ideas landed for you, if they challenged your thinking, or better still, if they've nudged you to do something differently, please remember to follow, subscribe and leave us a five star

Co-host: rating wherever you are listening.

Nick Day: If you're watching on YouTube, drop us a comment below. It generally really does help us bring more of these conversations to you, and it helps raise the profile of HR and L and D and people management worldwide. While you're at it, share this episode with a colleague or friend because that does more for the industry than you'd think. Want to go deeper? Well, you'll find the full episode with each of today's guests linked in the show notes. But most of all, thank you for joining me for this special edition of the HR, L&D podcast. Until next time, keep learning, keep moving and keep shaping the future of work. Deel is the all in one platform to hire, manage and pay your global team. Giving hr, uh, one place to work instead of juggling disconnected systems from onboarding to offboarding, deal brings payroll, compliance and even IT access together across 150 countries, all on infrastructure they built themselves. That means HR isn't wrestling with logins, tabs and tools all day long. Book your demo today at uh d e l.com nickdayhr that's deal.com nickdayhr.