How Nutrafol CEO Cindy Gustafson is reaching men, growing retention with tech and plotting expansion

Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the Glossy Beauty Podcast, a show about the business of beauty and wellness. I'm Lexi Lebsack. In today's episode I chatted with Cindy Gustafson, the CEO of category leading supplement brand Nutrafol. As many of you probably already know, Nutrafol sells hair growth supplements for women and men direct to consumer in dermatology offices and through retailers like Ulta Beauty. Nutrafol, launched in 2016, quickly became the hair growth supplement darling. And just six years later, Unilever took on majority investment, eventually fully acquiring the company. Cindy started as Nutrafol CMO three years ago and then took over the CEO role 18 months ago from one of Nutrafol's co co founders, Georgios Sedis. We spoke today about her current focus and her biggest projects so far leading the company, including a new M men's product launch to reach men above 50 years old, an app meant to boost sales, and a lot more. So let's get into it. Here's my conversation with Cindy. Cindy, welcome to the Glossy Beauty Podcast. I'm so happy to have you here.

Speaker B: Thank you, Lexi. It's great to be here. I appreciate it.

Speaker A: Yeah, of course. Um, big congrats on your first year as CEO of Nutrafol. You took over in January 2025 and in 2025 Unilever's wellbeing arm experienced double digit growth, fueled by double digit growth at Nutrafol. Um, what was your sort of secret sauce behind this growth?

Speaker B: We've always been exceptionally mission led and that did not change as we, as I moved into this role. Um, it's since its inception, we're on our 10 year mark, our 10 year anniversary and it's always been, um, with a real focus on getting customers to success. Hair thinning is a real burden and so we've been very committed to how we can help people address that burden. And so staying committed to that mission throughout, um, our scaling, throughout our evolution has been very, very critical and a major key driver of our success.

Speaker A: Success. What was it like stepping into the CEO? CEO role and I mean, basically taking over for one of the founders.

Speaker B: Yeah. So Georgios, Georgios is incredible. He's an amazing human. This company wouldn't be here without him. And because he is such an incredible human, it made it, I would dare I say, easy in the sense of, I mean he's always approached what we do with such care and really thinks about every single person that we're helping on such an individual level. And as well as thinking about how the people that work Here and serve the consumer and the customer and thinking about them on an individual level. And so when we were transitioning, we didn't do it with speed. We did it very slowly. Um, we did it very methodically. We took the company along with us along the way. And so it felt very natural, it felt, um, very organic because we were both just so committed to the mission. We were so committed to making sure that it continued. And so it was, um, um, it was, it was. It worked. It just worked.

Speaker A: Wow. Well, I have to ask, you know, you've worked with Unilever in the past and of course Unilever acquired, um, acquired Neutrophil. When you came in in 2023 as CMO, did you sort of know that you were going to eventually be taking on this CEO role?

Speaker B: No, it wasn't even a thought in my mind. It was. I've always been very, um. I always had a gravitational pull towards brands that have a real true mission and really have an empathy for a customer. And I will say I always love, ah, a brand that I personally use. I became a devoted user of Nutrafol in 2021, so, well before I actually was here. And that was what really attracted me to join. And I joined as the CMO in 2023 and it was just thinking about how we could help and serve more people and how we could help and explain to more people what we do. And that was what I was focused on and that was kind of of what drove me to come here in the first place.

Speaker A: Well, Nutrafol is certainly a big success story. Um, you spoke to my former colleague Emma Sandler earlier this year, and she wrote that neutrophil is approaching $1 billion in annual revenue. Is that a good number still? Is that sort of what we're talking about here?

Speaker B: Yep, that's what we're talking about. We still have. And on one hand you're like, oh, my goodness, a billion and 2 million customers served. And on the other hand you're like, oh, my goodness, only 2 million customers. We still have so much more to go. And so that we look at it in a very motivating way to say we've got so many more people to still help. And so that's what we're very, very focused on. Wow.

Speaker A: What's the sort of biggest thing that you've learned about the supplement consumer since joining in 2023?

Speaker B: I would say the evolution probably since 2023 is just how much more educated people are and how more interested people are in supplements as a whole. But also in their own health and really taking control of their own health. So saying, all right, I've got something I need to do. I want to think about how I can address it. Where should I go? What should I do? What's the first thing I should consider? So I would say just even in my time here between 2023 and now, there's been just such a catapulting of people's understanding that they can do things to help themselves feel better. And that is. That has been a, uh, probably one of the biggest shifts that, that I've seen in the past few years.

Speaker A: What do you think that that's driven by?

Speaker B: I'd say a few things. There's just been naturally, not just within our category of supplements, but just in general in the world. There's just been a greater understanding of people's health and wellness and what they can do now to be, well, you and healthy years from now. So that whole longevity trend is obviously very, very critical and very, very real. And so I would just say people really knowing that a decision you make today and what you're doing today can impact, um, how you feel and how you show up ages from now. And so that's probably been one of the. One of the biggest pieces that makes sense.

Speaker A: It's sort of like a rising tide lifts all ships and within wellness supplements.

Speaker B: Yeah. And that's absolutely where people and you were like, I can do something now. And whether it be preventative or be in the moment to feel better about yourself, or you're going to set yourself up for greater success in the future, that has just been a larger trend in the world and absolutely something and a mindset that we see impact our brand in the category.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think that for a company to sort of reach the heights that Nutriful has, you also have to have a tiny bit of luck. And I think that the, you know, people are become so aware of hair shedding and hair loss. Saw it with COVID now we're seeing it with GLPs. I mean, you guys are kind of in a really, really great position to win.

Speaker B: I agree. I would also say that you, you need a real commitment to delivering on something someone actually needs. I really believe if you stay committed to that. We have m. Actually quite a small portfolio of products. Like you have brands that have hundreds and hundreds of SKUs. We are not that kind of a brand. We are not that kind of a business. We have been so fixated on really delivering against what a customer needs, what a customer is looking for. And staying very, very grounded in that. Which I think then when we do launch a product like we just launched Men's 50 plus, which you know, we don't do a lot of innovation. You know, we're pushing out 7, 8, 10 per year. It's really like, what do you need? Where is the science? How can we really offer a superior, most efficacious, most safest, um, solution and then really evolve and innovate against that? And that has been a really big piece that has helped to the success.

Speaker A: Yeah, I know that Nutrafil leads with science a lot. Talk to me a little bit about the most sort of successful way to reach consumers. And I mean what we're talking about here, a very saturated market. Um, and I'm also curious if that's sort of there's nuance between men and men over 50 and women. Um, yeah. How are you reaching people best?

Speaker B: So it is a calibration and a combination people. The science brings the credibility. People want to understand what is going into a supplement, especially a supplement. You're putting it in your body, you are ingesting it. And so they really want to understand what's gone into it, what kind of testing has gone into it. I mean every single product goes through rigorous clinical testing before it moves into the um, commercial and consumer space. So the science piece is so important to us, for Pete, for us, for ourselves, to make sure that we are creating the most efficacious and safest product and that people can understand what it is about Neutrophil that is going to work for them. But then it would absolutely not connect if it wasn't delivered with genuine empathy. I mean, you'll see in all of our marketing material we use real people with, with people m that have really been on, uh, neutrophil for extended period of time so that they can really explain how it works. So I think this other part of when I say the calibration is the empathy, it is the understanding of science is science. You can just read every publication, read every white paper, but then how is someone explaining it to you, that it matters to you? And so, you know, we really lean in on real customer voices for that. And by the way, not only our customer voices, but our, our community of dermatologists to really help explain with a genuine level of care and understanding of why this one will work for you.

Speaker A: Mhm. And is there nuance there in, you know, packaging up that science for men or for women or I guess even for men or women under 50 or over 50, 45.

Speaker B: So we see a little nuance in, in the way we engage men and women from, you know, um, kind of gaining their attention in the first place. We see the real difference actually when they become a customer, but in terms of the kind of bringing them into the fold in the first place, you really see men look at, um, how they look at their hair is really being escaped scorecard for how, where they're at in life and you know, how am I feeling? Am I, am I feeling myself? Am I in my zone? And so you really see that as a scorecard with women. You see as really that kind of emotional burden. I mean, you know, I went through very significant hair thinning in 2021 and it just, it overtakes you. And so you really are like, I need to do something right now with it. So it's definitely emotional on both sides. It's just the way then you express that outward is a little bit different from a male side versus a female side. But I would say the biggest difference we see is when the men and women come in. So on the men's side, the commitment to the cause is, is like elite. It is determined. It is. I'm going to stay here. Our 12 month LTV is 40% higher than on our women's side and our women's is quite impressive. And so the commitment once there is like all in. So we definitely see more of the behaviors, um, bifurcate when they actually come into the family.

Speaker A: Oh, that's so interesting. You think that men sort of, once they, once they get in, like they're locked in, they just, they, they, they want those results.

Speaker B: They want those results. And they're, they're just, you know, a, uh, more. Yeah, they're committed. They're like, I'm gonna do this. You know, Neutrophil requires you to take four pills every day and you need to do it for several months. I mean, the habit formation is so critical. It's something we put a ton of effort and attention to and really nurturing that men are like, I'm in it. I've got this, uh, I'm gonna do this every single day. It's fascinating. From a, from a consistency and a commitment.

Speaker A: I kind of, I kind of want to ask you a little bit about sort of. The founders were men. They came in because of their own hair loss journeys or the hair thinning journeys. I don't know that. But the company was focused so much on women for so long. And now you've come in and you're, you're really refocusing it on men. Um, talk to me about, you know, why.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, it's, it's such a, um, interesting backstory. So yes, the two, two of the founders were. Men have their very own, very different personal hair thinning journeys and stories. And um, when they, when they came in, they were looking for a solution for themselves. They want a natural solution for themselves that was going to work. And they, they found that they discovered that they created the science behind it. But then it was very quickly they recognized that there was a very underserved community which is women's hair thinning. I mean I genuinely believe that one of uh, the reasons that hair thinning is now such a part of the kind of popular culture conversation, one of not only, but one of, is because of the, the um, the stigma that neutrophil helped overcome with women having the conversation 10 years ago. I mean it's been 10 years. And so very quickly they recognized that there was an underserved community in women's hair thinning. Both just having the conversation about it and then actually having a safe, efficacious product that addressed it. And so they pivoted the resource, the science, all of it, to really understand how we could address um, the women's side of the business. And that was truly the, how the science was built. It was built against understanding what you need from a life stage perspective is, is, is critical. So what we need when we are 25 years old versus after we have a baby versus when we're in menopause or perimenopause is so different. And so now to your point, as we evolve the business and continue to expand, we thinking about the strategy in a very similar way. A, uh, man who is 25 years old versus a guy who is 55 years old needs something very different. And so how do we bring that life stage science to the men's side as well? Which is what we did with our Men's 50 plus launch earlier this year. Wow.

Speaker A: So Men's 50 plus launched in February. How is it, how has it been going?

Speaker B: I mean it's been exciting to see the response from people. Part of it I really. So one of the things that we always have women who are calling in, being like, I want to get my, my guy. I mean we have so many women who will call and ask for and say, I, well I'm in menopause, I need my husband have this, should I buy this one? Or should I buy. You know, and they're like, we don't have anything else. And so it's really did address the need state and the biological differences of a guy 30 versus a 55. And so we've seen, um, an incredible response from the marketplace for that. But I will say that really, um, ignited our efforts overall to really focus and engage men in a more meaningful way. We did our big MLB partnership. We also are nsf, uh, sports certified. And so really thinking about how we can connect with men and understand what they're looking for is something that's on our minds. And that, that men's launch was a big catapult there.

Speaker A: Hmm. How has the sort of different partnerships and different activations, um, so NSF and MLB that you just mentioned, um, how do those convert best? You know, like, how are you reaching men? You know, like, what are the sort of assets where. What are the messages? What works best when you sort of leveraging these, these sort of, um, marketing materials?

Speaker B: So we have a lot of heritage, I would say, in the category, and that gives us a bit of permission to take a bit of a different tone with various audiences. So what I love about the most recent work on the men's size is it has a little twinkle to it, it has a little kind of smile to it. And it's a campaign, um, that our brilliant CMO created, uh, called, uh, under every hat, there's a comeback. And it really takes that moment. Like, every guy knows that when you start to thin or you get. We call it the sunroof or whatever, you put that hat on and you're like, I'm not taking that hat off, and I'm just gonna make it work with my outfit, and I'm just gonna make it work. But what this effort really does is celebrate that little subtle moment where you take your hat off because you're so confident to do it. On the women's side, we always hear about the ponytail thickness. Like, I always love the thickness of my ponytail. Now it just doesn't feel the same. So if you think about that same kind of small little nuance in there that makes you, like, feel good about how your hair is doing that day or not. On the men's side, it's really, you know, that hat, that confidence to take it off. And so that's, that's the. The kind of little fuel, uh, behind the. Under every hat, there's a comeback effort. And that really coincided so well with our major, um, league baseball partnership. And then that really coincides so well with getting that NSF sports certification because it really, for. For the MLB M, you have to Be NSF Sports Certified, which is, you know, the most rigorous level of testing for supplements and to ensure players included can also take it.

Speaker A: Okay, that makes sense. And how is cross selling going? I'm assuming you're tapping the, the women who are neutral insiders and kind of hoping that they, they speak to the men in their life. How is that going?

Speaker B: My goodness. Do they. One out of every four, uh, purchases on the men's side is for. From the female. And so it really is a do it together. Well, it's interesting too, when you think about habit formation, right? Absolutely. There's research after research to say if you do it together, there's a greater chance that you will actually create that habit. So I think you also see that community piece coming together to be like, I'm going to do it, you're going to do it, and we're going to do this together. And so you absolutely see it. And, you know, women instigate and say, uh, maybe you need, you need a little bit, um, of more support there so that women play a really powerful role. But again, we also see men saying, I want to do something about this. Like, and again, men becoming much more, um, understanding that hair thinning is not inevitable. There are things out there that can actually address hair thinning and address it before it really becomes something that you're not feeling as good about yourself about.

Speaker A: It seems to me that men sort of have never had more options to either regrow or cover their hair. I, I don't know about you, but I get a lot of those, like, toupay videos in my Instagram feed. Are you. Yeah. And, um, of course we have, like, tons of different products, like, you know, spinoffs of Rogaine and we have Telehealth. We have emerging peptide science. Hair transplants have also become really popular online. Um, does this sort of backdrop help or hurt your mission to reach more men?

Speaker B: We look at the attention as something that is important and something that we absolutely welcome. Again, having the conversation, people being aware that there's something that you can do about it that you don't just. It's not just genetics. You don't just have to be like, oh, it's going to happen when I hit this age. I mean, that is something that we welcome the conversation around for sure. There are a lot of options out there. Two, uh, ways we look at the world is one, we welcome the conversation around it too. Sometimes it is just Nutrafol. You just need Nutrafol. That's all good. But if you decide to get A hair transplant, Nutrafol is good, critical on that journey both before and after. So the other part of it is thinking about it in kind of partnership. I mean, when you do something like a hair transplant, you need the support before, you need the support during, and you need the support after. So think about that. Lens is something that is really important also kind of that protocol like that, how you're going to regrow your hair protocol, piece of it. So I think it's really valuable for people to have the conversation because you don't need to just do nothing about it. You, you. There are solutions.

Speaker A: Yeah. And so true. Um, well, going after men has been a big focus for you, but so has the app. Talk to me a little bit about how the app is sort of helping to drive your business goals. What was the sort of, you know, um, what was the sort of goal for it and how is it going?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I would say, you know, above even the focus on men's. I, I would say our foundational kind of omnipresent focus is around nurturing the journey. And I say it over and over again to the internally and externally and otherwise, because it does take such a commitment. Your hair growth cycle is an extended period of time, so you have to commit to an extended period of time. And anything you do in life, like, if you don't see a result in forget three months, if you don't see something in a week from now, once you've committed to it, you're like, man, am I going to stick with this? So when you think about the hair growth cycle, what's happening in month one, what's happening in month two, what's happening month three, before you see, you know, your part thickening or your baby hairs regrowing back. And so the, the, um, inception and the, the kind of inspiration behind the launch of the app was really to help nurture the journey and to help people understand in much more long form what is happening to your hair, what is happening inside as you start the neutrophil journey so that you could just have an area to understand a little bit more long form. I mean, we did not, did not anticipate the level of success of what this app would deliver. And, you know, whether it be just explaining to you you're on day 42, here's what's happening right now to, um, you know, account of your kind of accountability. Buddy, have you taken the pills today? Um, what more can you be doing? Because by the way, it's not just about the supplements. Are you Getting the right amount of sleep? Are you getting the right amount of nutrition? Right. It's really about whole body. And the app has been such a beautiful mechanism to help people really stick with the journey and to understand what's going on. And that is so critical for us thinking about ways that we can explain to people what is going on before you really start to see the results.

Speaker A: Wow. Do you have any um, data to support those sort of conversion or keeping people on and then also curious are people, you know, buying elsewhere and then coming in, making an account and then then becoming a DTC shopper?

Speaker B: Yes. So, uh, two, two pieces in that one. So yes, on the first side, when we first launched the app, it was to customers only. So it was just if you were a customer and you came through dot com, you would be offered to join into the app. We then launched the guest experience several months later. So if you were to buy somewhere else and then you were to come in and you were to say, okay, I want to really understand what's going on. We don't push it out in a broad manner. It's really people uh, finding it organically and um, just because it's again, it's not here, it's not built to like sell a product. It's not built for that. It's really built to help nurture the journey. And so that's how we really think about it. But yes, we've just lapped our um, kind of 3, 612 month users. And so to understand their LTV versus where you would normally see a fall off of month one to three is, except exceptional. And we are, I would still say we are just getting started. The app is just about 10 months old and that even the guest experience is, is um, much um, more immature than that at this point. And um, you know, we have nothing but big thoughts and opportunities for how the app goes. Because again, think about like with AI, I mean you can really understand what your hair growth count looks like when you think about the kind of tools that can be applied. So a lot more opportunity there.

Speaker A: Still so exciting. Um, so I know that you mentioned already in this call that the first few months are the hardest to retain someone, um, before you're sort of seeing those results before you, you know that it's worth it. Um, outside of the app, what other sort of methods are really nice for retaining people and keeping them on that, you know, that first few months.

Speaker B: So even before the app, uh, we, one of our biggest groups of people at the company is our customer team. It is Our team that is built just to help people stay with Nutrafol. And so the efforts that we have to continue reaching out to people, even like onboarding, communication and what do you need to do and when, like really making the most of those connection points, when we have somebody, you know, we're heavily dot com, we're heavily D2C driven, but it's because we can have the highest real touch relationship there. And so we are always thinking about different methods and style. I mean we've tested and tested understand what do you. When do you need to hear from us and where do you need to hear from us? And do you need the SMS nudge? Do you need the email nudge? But how does that look? And what do you need to hear from us? And when we also are one of our other kind of little secret sauces, we're always like, okay, if you, Lexi, are on women's core and we know that we understand a few things about your behavior since you came in. It is very likely that, um, on month one, two, three, you might get an additional product from us to support your journey. And you didn't ask for it, you didn't do. You didn't have to do any work for it. But we know that if you sleep on a silk pillowcase, you'll have less breakage. We know that if you use a certain hair towel when you get out of the shower, you will have less breakage. So we're also very committed to, to kind of um, reminding you and being in front of you to say, listen, you've got to keep committing to this because we are committed to you. So you need to stay committed to your journey. That's really how we look at the retention side of it.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: So you'll.

Speaker A: The company will just send someone like some, like a gift without purchase.

Speaker B: Yes, that's exactly what it is though. Yeah, the purchase, that one. And it's always, it's very meaningful. It's not just like, here's something, it's a signal that we've caught. It's something that we know you might need in that moment because everyone needs the reminder. Right. It's like it's very similar to weight loss. I mean, you know, you have to get up every day and run and do that thing. And so what is going to motivate you to do that? And so it's always a very meaningful thing. But it's something that's that, that that we hope shows to customers you have committed to your journey and it's a journey and we are equally committed to you. And so that is, that is a major mainstay of how we think about nurturing the customer relationship.

Speaker A: Wow. Cindy. I just had a little, um, big connection in my brain because you were the CMO at Weight Watchers for a long time. And it, and it's, it's true. It very much is like a weight loss journey. Like, you're not going to get results where you have to lock in and you have to just, you have to have faith really, that, that it's going to work.

Speaker B: You have to have faith. And by the way, the other big, um, kind of similarity, it's different for every person. How I feel about my hair, how that makes me show up each day is totally different than yours. How I feel when mine gets thinner or isn't looking its best. I don't feel that it's very different than how you feel. Even if it's, it's, if it's, even if it's like universally emotional. Right. It's such an individual journey. And so that's where we say that, that, uh, you know, back to Giorgios and, and the founder, like that level of understanding of how individual your journey is and what it's going to take to commit is just. Has been such a foundational element of the business's success.

Speaker A: Let's talk a little bit about your other goals. I know international is a big thing for Neutropol and a big thing on your docket. Um, how are you approaching international and what are your goals there?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's something that's on our minds. We're obviously a predominantly, ah, U.S. business. Um, and so when we think about how we are very committed to helping more people, it's not just people in one continent or one country. It's really about how we help people around the world. When we go international, we were not there yet. When we do go international, we will, um, really think about it in a very similar, um, way to the way the business was built in the US which is thinking about those key opinion leaders. In this case in the US it's dermatologists. I mean, that was really the foundation of the business is really hearing and learning and partnering with the dermatologist community to say, what do your patients need? And how do we think about addressing that together? I mean, that's, that was such a mainstay of the business. It's a similar approach that we will take, um, internationally. And I say it because the way I said Giorgio, so we didn't rush the transition, it's the same way about international. It is not about rushing it. It is not about the next sale. It is truly about the next person that we can help and get them to efficacy, meaning get them to success on Neutropol. So you will take our time to see it. We'll take our time to really build the relationships, to hear from each market. You know what? Because even hair thinning is different in different countries, different people. And so really understanding how we can create the best solution is what we're looking for. Not to just scale the product we have here and say, let's put it over there. Um, and so it'll be a very similar approach that we have in the US to how we kind of launched very slowly and very thoughtfully.

Speaker A: Yeah, that makes sense. Are there any markets that you're eyeing? Um, sort of as you begin your plans?

Speaker B: I mean, there's a huge demand. It's. I mean, every time you mentioned Unilever, it's like every time we go to the global conversations, like, when's it coming to this market? When's it coming to this market? Um, so I would say at this point we are just focusing on knowing and, um, understanding where we can help best based on our formulations and what we want to consider doing from a formulation perspective. So, um, you know, Europe always is an interesting space and place, and so it's something that we are strongly looking at and considering. But we haven't made any kind of confirmed moves yet. Smart.

Speaker A: Well, the supplement space moves very quickly and there's been a lot more brands and I say that every year, which is crazy. But are m there any trends or any sort of big changes in the supplement space that have piqued your interest?

Speaker B: Uh, I, I appreciate the longevity. Just focus and people saying, what I can do right now is going to impact, you know, how I, you know, feel, um, later in life. So the longevity piece, I think, um, in general with telehealth, you know, you mentioned that there's a burgeoning kind of, uh, collection of opportunities on the men's side. I mean, telehealth as a whole brings a level of accessibility to a space that maybe wasn't as accessible before. And what we look at is to say, okay, people aren't like, well, I want to take this solution or that one, right? They don't inbound say, I want to do an Rx or I want to do it with a supplement. They're just like, I need. I want to address a problem that I have. And so we Always think about how we can help, um, and engage people when they're just like, I have a problem, like, my hair is thinning. What do I do now? And there are a lot of opportunities out there. And so it's like, okay, so how we, how do we help explain, Explain that this could be really valuable for you based on where you're at on your journey. But I would say from an overall trend perspective, the, the, the people's. On people's understanding about longevity, people's understanding that, um, pharmaceuticals are continuing to evolve is, is just something that we are always, that's always on our mind.

Speaker A: Do you think there's a pathway eventually for neutrophil in telehealth or in something like similar?

Speaker B: I mean, right now we really look at our dermatologists and our naturopathic doctors as really being our health science solution. I mean, we have 7,500 dermatologists that recommend NCEL neutrophil. And we have, uh, dozens and dozens of our naturopathic doctors who, when you call in, you want to understand more about your hair concerns or what's going on. Um, you know, we have our hair mineral analysis kit. So if you're like, I don't know, this is, I'm still having trouble here. You can send us your hair sample. We'll, we'll test it, we'll understand what's going on with it. So we think about that. That's kind of our, our view at the moment of how to really address that space of, of health.

Speaker A: Last question for me. What might the future of the supplement category look like if we can look ahead a few years or maybe even a decade? Um, any, any sort of hot takes or guesses.

Speaker B: Oh, I like this. Uh, I think we're going to continue to see people focus on preventative. I mean, this is just my own musings and my own, you know, you'll continue to see people have a greater awareness that every decision they make x amount of time, months, years ago could, um, help be set up for greater health benefits years from now? I think that will be something that continues. And therefore, what are people going to do from a preventative perspective, um, now so that they can set themselves up for greater success? And that's probably one of the biggest ones. And I think as we continue to see the scaling of telehealth, you will see people just, um, be focused on, I want the best solution that's out there. Like, I just want the best thing for me. Again, years ago we, we saw even in my, my short time here, you saw the like people saying, I want a Rx, a drug solution or I want a natural solution. Now we see a lot more blurring of like, I just want the best solution for me. And I, I know that these drugs are becoming safer and I know that nutraceuticals are very potent. And so you know how I just want the best thing for me and so I think this goes to for me is the personalization side. It's obviously been a trend that's been in the making in the works for years, but people still, um, I don't think we've had a total reckoning with how personalized you can get and be in the supplement space. And so as we think, if life stage right now is an expression of personalization for nature fall, what does it look like to your point? You know, in a dream world a decade from now when I need something different based on you knowing my, my body's needs versus what you need. So I think that personalization piece will, will continue to, to take hold.

Speaker A: Cindy, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Wonderful insights and um, big congrats at Nutrafol.

Speaker B: Thank you. I really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you so much.

Speaker A: And thank you for listening to this episode episode of the Glossy Beauty Podcast. If you enjoyed it, please leave us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening. And for even more coverage on the beauty industry and more, please visit Glossy Co Beauty.