What makes a successful pop-up? (RERUN)

Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the Glossy Beauty Podcast, a show about the business of beauty and wellness. I'm Lexi Lebsack. I hope summer is treating you well. I am personally heading to Palm Springs this weekend with some girlfriends for some sun and some pool time. I hope you are doing something even more fun this summer with friends and family. We are off this week as part of our two week hiatus. So we are bringing you a best of rerun episode that I absolutely love. There are so many amazing nuggets of wisdom from three guests. Yes, this is a panel episode and it is so good. We are welcoming three women to answer one big question. What makes a pop up shop or experiential event successful today? Today I speak with Jacqueline Barrett, the SVP of marketing at uh, Patrick Ta Beauty, as well as Netta Whitney, the president of creative agency Matte Projects. And our third guest is Michelle Lee, the chief brand officer at Front Row Group, Fractional CMO of Landing International and the former editor chief of Allure magazine. These ladies share so many great anecdotes from their past pop ups including some that have mile long lines. They also give advice on navigating the various options you have when throwing an event. Whether it's a one day gifting event or a million dollar plus investment plus so much more. So sit back, relax and let's get into our episode with Jacqueline, Nada and Michelle. Hi everyone. I am so honored to be here with three true powerhouse voices I leaders in beauty marketing, experiential, all the things that go into popups which is what we're talking about today. First up here to welcome Michelle Lee, chief brand officer at Front Row Group, a creative e comm and marketing agency and fractional CMO of Landing International. Welcome Michelle.

Speaker B: Hi everyone.

Speaker A: I'm also here with Netta Whitney, president of creative agency Mat Projects and former CMO at ring concierge. Hi Netta.

Speaker C: Hi there. Excited to be here.

Speaker D: Yay.

Speaker A: And finally, Jaclyn Barrett, senior vice president of marketing at Patrick Taw Beauty and former marketing exec at Kendo Brands and beauty Counter. Welcome Jacqueline.

Speaker C: Hi.

Speaker D: Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker A: Yes, I'm so glad to have all three of you here. Well, let's start with a big question. What makes a beauty popup successful today? And I'm going to start with Jacqueline because you are fresh off a massively successful popup at Patrick TA Beauty. We reported on it fans, uh, here in la they camped overnight. They waited in a mile long line. I know the event converted for you. So let's kind of jump into this. What makes a popup successful today?

Speaker D: Well, I think the first thing I want to think about when you think about a successful popup is what's your brand all about and who your consumer is, because that's going to make a big difference in creating the optimal pop up experience. What do your consumers love about your brand? What makes it special? What's an experience that you can create in real life that maybe your consumers can't get from you in a very digital, social first kind of landscape? So for us at Patrick top beauty, we are very social and digital first. But the vision for this pop up was we have this incredible relationship with so many consumers via, uh, this small screen of your phone. And how can we exist in real life outside of that little square that we all love so much, um, and create an experience and a shared community that people are really, really craving? I think a lot of our customers grew up in the COVID era. I know we all did. And people want to be together. They want to find other people who love the same things that they do and create that sense of community that just gives everyone a little bit of extra purpose and a little bit of extra excitement. And so for us, we want to build that emotional connection. So a big part of our pop up, of course, is bringing the brand to life, Having Patrick there, um, and having him meet, interact with so many of our consumers. We really thought about the experience first. Not to say that this doesn't work, because I think that sales in a pop up is also incredibly great. But for this particular pop up, our very first one in our hometown in Los Angeles, we were thinking more about that connection and the experience than about building a transaction or building a, you know, a sales driving ROI, so to speak. And so we did see a lot of people wanted to buy things on site, but we wanted to use this as an experience to really give back to that community, to kind of show them the love, to gift them things and make the experience all about them. Um, and I think that was an incredibly successful. We could feel the energy, the warmth. I mean, people waited overnight. They camped on the streets of West Hollywood, which we. It was so unexpected. We were so incredibly grateful for. And so we were just so thankful to give back to that community and kind of pour more love back into all the people who have essentially made this brand what it is.

Speaker A: I feel like that's a big theme that I hear a lot, is that, you know, coming off of COVID we see people just really hungry for this in person, in person. Sort of activities. Um, Michelle Netta, have you found that as well? Are people sort of hungry to get back and what are they looking for?

Speaker C: At our agency we do a ton of experiential work and a ton of experiences and we've seen more and more demand from our clients for this in person connection. I think, you know, maybe uh, uh, five, ten years ago, everyone was so thrilled with the idea of social, right, the reach. It's incredible you can reach so many people. It's so scalable. But now people are starting to think I'm getting two to five seconds of people's attention span. And uh, when I talk to people and we all have bosses, we all have CFOs, we all have CEOs and they're thinking about their marketing spend. Why am I spending on an event where you're going to get hundreds or thousands of people to attend versus a uh, digital activation or a social activation where it's scalable to millions? So I like to say, listen, fractional attention, you get two to five seconds. What Jacqueline was just describing, people camping out overnight, people getting in a vehicle to come to your event and then spending 30 minutes, an hour, drinks and dinner with your brand. That is extended attention that on a tissue and cellular level builds a different connection with a brand. And I think in today's um, super crowded environment, brands are realizing that they absolutely need to connect on that cellular level and make a different level of impact in order to have extended brand loyalty and extended brand love. When it comes to the amount of products people have to choose from and the amount of products they see on their roadmap that they need to launch. So we're really seeing a lot of people want to invest in experiences and then just to piggyback off what Jacqueline said about what makes brand activations and experiences really impactful, we are seeing that brands are really investing in customization and personalization, especially around these experiential and pop up moments. We recently worked with um, Maison Frances Kerjean for their launch of their fragrance Kirky. And one of the most exciting moments in the activation was, was laser engraving people's names on fragrance bottles. That was where the line was right. And it was a VIP and celeb and influencer event. And everyone, those are not people who like to stand in lines, but everyone was standing in line to get that customized fragrance bottle. And I think with these events, um, as we're talking, sometimes you sell product, sometimes you gift product. And when you have that giftable moment, what's really going to make it stand out and be something that people keep and treasure and come back to. And I think that and personalization element is what we're seeing really pop.

Speaker B: Definitely. Yeah. Agree with all of those things. I think that there's definitely been a big boom in pop ups post Covid, but I think it's also part of this effect of beauty, being more about community and being more about this connection and also just our digital world that a lot of times unless there's a brand that's like kind of, you know, fully all over in retail, it's really hard to experience that brand as lifestyle. And so pop ups are this way that you can really live this like feel physical embodiment of a brand to have fun. What Jacqueline was saying also about starting with, you know, it all comes down to brand and it comes down to making sure that the guest is having a really great time. I think it's so important for brands to understand who they're partnering with to help them build everything that that person is really starting from the why and from the emotion of everything. You know, whether you are a, uh, super luxury skincare brand and it's all about, again, living in the luxury or like a fun young brand that's all about having fun. I think sometimes brands get a little bit caught up in the tactics of things as opposed to the real. Why am I actually doing this? I think also to your initial question too, of like, what makes it successful? I think brands have gotten very smart now about squeezing as much value as they can out of every piece of things. Um, so Front row worked with Tatcha recently on their Dewey Milk campaign. And so we created this adorable little bunny character, Jiu Chan. So Tatcha kind of took all this branding, the amazing creative around and then created a pop up out of that. So thinking about how big Le Booboo has been, right? And like all the labubu bag charms and other things as part of the gifting, they created a little, um, Jiyu chan bag charm for that. They also had these adorable, um, matcha drinks out of Ube that kind of matched the colors of the branding. And so out of every single moment, it really was another social moment, but also another brand touch point and people really connected to that. And then also, um, in terms of figuring out your goals too, as everyone has said here already, whether it's selling product, whether it's social, whether it's just gaining awareness, there's a way to now with technology, kind of connect all of those pieces. So we work a lot with New face. They had mentioned that when they did a pop up, the first place that they saw a spike was actually on Amazon. So back in the day, in sort of like popup 101, like version one, it was really difficult to measure that value of things. And so now again, through technology and other ways, people are really starting to see whether it's through social, through sales, through other things. Pop, um, ups are really starting to have more legs beyond just that one moment.

Speaker D: I just want to piggyback on that because you were both talking about something important. I think as marketers, as experiential creatives, increasingly everyone's getting pushed for what's the ROI? How does this dollar deliver $2 tomorrow? And I think there are a few ways to think about this. One is short term and one is long term. And I think what Netta was saying about getting into the DNA of your customer, getting that true affinity is a real long term strategy. And I think as marketers, we're always going to be tasked with balancing those short term and those long term priorities. And how do we make sure that, you know, every dollar spent is delivering the best possible return? How is it scalable? You know, what, what are all those pieces? And in the short term, I think we do see sales spikes. I mean, that's something we definitely saw with our Patrick Chop beauty pop up. But you also see emv, you see that earned media value, you see amplification. I think it's so important, you know, you can only reach so many consumers in a pop up. It's going to be in a location. And how do you help your consumer population feel like they're on that journey with you? It's a mix of a little bit of fomo, but also inclusion because you don't want people to feel like they're not part of it and therefore it's not relevant. And so how do you bring them on the journey? Whether it's the team packing the bags as we get ready for the event, or the content along the line, or what is it like to be inside? And then for us, I think Michelle, you were also touching on this. The details really matter. We really sweat the details. Um, we took the kind of House of Glos idea and we built a series for the summer called out of Office, where we're going on the road into different locations and all of those details really, really matter. What does the napkin look like? How do we present the drinks on the tray and how does that connect to product? In the Hamptons, we created kind of a Patrick's backyard hangout. We had ping pong, we had custom Jenga. Like, those little bits and details, to Michelle's point, create the lifestyle and the experience of the brand. And I always like to say it's like it's important for your brand to have products that people covet and desire. But there's this other, like, additional speed where it's. You're. You want to be the kind of person who uses those products. And when we build out these pop ups and these experiences and the details that you choose help people understand this brand is for me, this is a community I would like to be a part of. And so I loved your point, Michelle, about being, you know, sometimes in event production, you're really caught up in the logistics and how this is going to happen. But those little details are the magic that bring things to life and really cement people's connection with your brand.

Speaker B: Absolutely. I always think about the word clever because clever can be interpreted in a lot of different ways. And it's being smart about things. I completely agree. And Jacqueline, I talk about your Patrick Ta pop up all the time because I think you were the ones where you had the guys passing out water in line too, where truly think again, thinking about all the details that, you know, sometimes waiting in line, I'm not a line waiter. I don't like doing it. But if someone goes that extra mile to again hand out water to me in a clever way, um, when I was working on our K Beauty world, pop, uh up for landing also, we had a very long line, especially at Century City in la. And so someone had gone out and bought banana milks and other like, Korean snacks and went out and handed them out during in the line. And so it was just again, this extra bit of connection that as people are waiting, make sure that they understand that they're valued and like, we appreciate that they're there. And so I love the idea of thinking through the entire guest journey, like, what are they actually going to be doing? Where do we want them to be spending their time and making sure again that they leave there with like a big smile on their face.

Speaker D: Yes. We even staffed our event with complete employees that work here because we were like, we want our employees to feel that connection. And we were so cognizant as people were coming in, you know, thank you so much for waiting. We wanted to make sure that we get as many people through as possible, but that you're not doing a lot of waiting once you're inside. And we encourage people to stay kind of as long as they wanted. Because if you really think about it, you know, people were waiting 8, 9, 10 hours. That is brand love at its finest. And how can you make that worth it? How do you make it? You know, we sent Patrick down the line waiting. We cut the line when we knew we couldn't get any more people in because it would break our hearts to have somebody wait eight hours and not be able to get in. We were like, we'll stay as long as it takes to get this group through. But I think that understanding of what it's like and to your point, the journey and the just the humanity of thanking people and making sure the experience is great and giving those, those extra goodies and details shows that the brand is human on a certain level. It's not just a corporation.

Speaker B: Yeah. And we've definitely seen pop ups where it's gone wrong, where, you know, there's been a long line and then people have left and felt like they didn't get what they wanted to out of it. And then that can be really disastrous also.

Speaker A: Why do you think that happens? Why do you think that it's just too long of a way, people, you know, dissatisfied with what they get in the end, um, how do you, how do you like prevent that from happening?

Speaker B: It's a mismatch of the value of things, right. That it's like if you wait for a long time and again there's this FOMO element of I'm going to wait for hours and hours what you get, and it's not just in free stuff, but it's what you get in the experience of what you get from the way that you were treated. What you're getting in the end of it has to match up with what you've given. And so where I've seen pop ups go wrong and again, it's not always just, uh, related to how long you wait in a line. So sometimes it's the ask that it's like the ask of there's pressure for brands to again show ROI and that they collected a lot of data, they got someone's phone number, their email address, they got them to download their app. Sometimes the ask doesn't match the get. And so I have also, just as an attendee, been to pop ups before where I felt like what the brand was asking me to do felt like too much and I've actually walked away. So I think that you have to, as a, you know, a planner of an event like this, you have to really make sure that the value that you're Offering people is matched or even exceeds what you're asking from them.

Speaker C: I think that's a really important point. I think, um, at mat, when we kind of help facilitate events, we also work with them on understanding what is the goal from a KPI perspective in terms of not only what do you want to achieve, but from a capacity perspective, because it can be really overwhelming, especially when there's a freebie involved. You'll be shocked how many people stand in line for, um, things. So understanding what is the KPI, what is the audience goal in terms of are they looking for Gen pop, are they looking for vip, are they looking for celebrity? And then how do we best manage that guest flow so that it is a successful outcome? Sometimes we'll do timed entries, sometimes we'll do invites for certain time slots so that people understand I'm coming at this time. I'm waiting in line for an hour to 90 minute max to get through the event. Um, we'll try and be really explicit about what the duration of the event will be. We recently threw one in our owned and operated space Hero, in partnership with Ford's Gin. And it was really an experience where you went through the whole, um, making of the Gin. And so it took time. It wasn't like you're in, you grab your swag bag, you're out. And we wanted people to know and not necessarily think it was an in and out. Right? So we wanted to be really explicit with that so that people could make the time to experience the whole moment. So I think it's really important to also help set expectations, not only with the client, but when appropriate, with the audience, so that people don't walk away frustrated, like Michelle said she has, and we all have at certain points in time. Because that is the worst outcome when you've invested so much money in building that brand love and loyalty.

Speaker A: I, uh, wanna ask you guys, what is a good gift nowadays? What's something that's free, that's valuable enough to make people wait? To make people potentially hand over some data, maybe their email address or their phone number? Because I hear from brands all the time that do something like, oh, a hot, uh, chocolate or a sweet treat or something. And I just keep hearing that it doesn't convert. It's not enough. But you guys tell me, I would

Speaker C: say a good gift is an exclusive gift that makes you feel like you're more a part of the brand than you were before you received that gift. So, um, that's why earlier I was talking about customization and personalization. Being so important. Handing away a fragrance bottle is handing away a fragrance bottle that someone could have purchased, but customizing in some way that fragrance, or having an exclusive color run or a customizable charm that you're able to add to the lip gloss or some element that makes you feel like, I'm the only one who had this because I attended this brand event and it's made me part of that brand's club lifestyle and ethos. I think that's what makes it worth it. And for the customers that, that are really interested in your brand, that will be worth the wait. For the casual consumer, it's not going to be. It's going to be very transactional and they're either going to stand in line because they have the time and want something free, or they're not. And that's why I think like the hot chocolates don't make a difference. It's for the average passerby in SoHo that's like, I do want a free matcha latte and I have an extra 30 minutes in my day. But I think for the person who really loves the brand, it's something that they've gotten that's exclusive, that no one else can get because they didn't attend that moment. That would be my 2 cents.

Speaker B: I think there's not one right answer for every brand. And so the reason I say that is because of with K Beauty World, for example, so we've been doing this multi city tour with K Beauty World and all eight brands that uh, were with us in this pop up. Most of them had no retail brick and mortar presence in the US yet. And so that's quite different from how you might treat a brand again that has like full retail visibility. Um, so a lot of the people who came through these pop ups were not familiar with these brands. They're like maybe a little bit familiar with K Beauty at the time if you think about a year ago. And so really the idea was that we wanted to give a lot of gifting so that people could experience firsthand. And it was really important to give full size so that people left with like this giant box of goodies. So especially for our first stop in Los Angeles, we had kind of like a vip, like influencer box that was so over the top. Like it was a huge amount of product. And then, you know, for the average kind of consumer who came through too, it was a really sizable nice gifting. And so through that we wanted to again, our goal was really to introduce people to the brands and in a Lot of cases to introduce them in general to Korean beauty five years down the line. Once these brands are sort of like household names and fully recognized, the gifting might change. And so I would say, um, again, it goes back to what Jacqueline was talking about, that everything comes back to, what are your goals, who are you trying to reach, what's your brand, and then figuring out gifting from there. But I will say I agree. I don't think snacks are enough.

Speaker D: No. And I would just. I would echo everything everybody just said. I think the exclusivity is a symbol of belonging with this community, and it's a symbol of the experience that you had. So at House of Glow, we did do product as well, but we had exclusive hats that said, um, three of our blush shade names, not too much. She goes to the gym and she's so la. Um, and then the photo ops and the experiences that are shareable. So everybody got to meet Patrick, the male models going down the line. Um, the experience of waiting overnight. Like, we had people building friendships and communities in the line and people making tiktoks about their get ready with me as they were waiting in line. And so I do think that that exclusivity, whether it's through the experience, through the swag, through a photo moment, it's. I mean, look, we live in a very shareable life, and people want to share that experience and show, you know, people truly vote with their values. And so they want to say, this is a brand that I believe in, that has values that reflect who I am. And I'm in the club, I'm in the group. When we did the Hamptons, we did custom, um, sweatshirts and sweatpants because we knew people had to go a long drive home. Um, and so they could change their clothes at the end of the night. And they had really cute, like, custom, exclusive out of office Patrick TA sweatsuits. And it's like thinking about, what does that consumer need, want, like, love? And then making it really cute. I think it's super important when you make merch or swag that it's something people want to wear and display. Not your logo ten times over somewhere. Like, think about what you'd want to wear. Um, and then think about who that consumer is and find the right swag that's gonna make them feel proud to wear it and excited that they were part of the experience and bring more of that lifestyle community to life.

Speaker C: I wanna double click on that for a minute because we live in a swag world as well. And, and every brand wants to create merch. But what Jacqueline says cannot be underscored heavily enough. Don't just make stuff for stuff's sake. When we worked with Carolina Herrera fragrances, we launched their Bad Boy Elixir and, um, their Good Girl fragrance. And we made customized bathrobes, uh, for all of our guests. They were put in their hotel rooms when they came and traveled, and everyone took them out of the hotel rooms, and we actually went to see if people left them behind. Behind, because we wanted to know if these were things that were, like, lovely enough for people to want, and they did take them with them. I think it's so important to think of, like, what is something that someone will want to keep and then where to show the brand, because otherwise, you're creating landfill. And you do want people to be fans of your brand. Like, I love the example Jacqueline gave, because all of those sayings are sayings that you would want to wear on a hat.

Speaker D: Huh?

Speaker C: Regardless of whether it's Patrick Ta or not. And it's amazing that your marketing team was clever enough to come up with them because they work so well. I think thinking about, like, the litmus test of, like, would I and my friends wear it? Because we're all consumers. And if you're listening to this podcast, I'm sure you're a beauty consumer as well in some way, shape, or form. So use that rigor around. Like, would we do this If I called 10 of my closest friends and was like, this is the marketing idea. This is the event idea, or would you participate? Would you go to this? Would this be enough for you to care? I think in the marketing world, everyone gets swayed by the latest trend. Is it going to be, you know, ice cream? Is it going to be tennis? Is it going to be cafes? We've all seen the trends, but really keeping yourself honest about, is this something me and my friends would participate in? I think is one of the easiest and strongest litmus tests for success, because marketing moves so quickly.

Speaker A: Yeah, all such great points here. Um, and it's so true. I've gotten so much merch from brands that, like, I'm just like, I can't wear this.

Speaker B: It looks.

Speaker A: I don't know. It just. It's too branded. I just feel silly. Um, but yeah, um, okay, I want to talk a little bit about who and where. So maybe let's start with who. How do you form a guest list? How do you invite them? How do you make sure you're inviting the right people, the right amount of people with the right timing for the event. And this is open to whoever wants to start.

Speaker C: Yeah, it all comes back to your goals for your event. The who, um, you know, what is the brand trying to achieve? Is it conversion? In that case, you want a bigger list and you want a broader list. Is it really for VIPs and celebs and press and influencers? Do you want to get that really, really high earned media value in that case? And reach, in that case, it might be a more select guest. Guest list. I think you've got to go back to, you know, what is the goal of any given experience? Um, but I think the timing. Listen, at Map projects, we work fast, so we love to have a lot of time, but we turn around events in six to eight weeks all the time. When M clients call us and they're like, oh, you know, we didn't get ahead of this tentpole moment. Fashion Week is coming up. We're getting a lot of Fashion Week is coming up calls right now. Um, so, you know, as long as you've got, ah, at least six to eight weeks, I think you should be fine. Um, and then making sure that if you're planning an event around a big tent pole moment, like a Fashion Week, or like an Art Basel or like another cultural tentpole moment, that you're doing it intentionally, that's another conversation we have a lot with brands because brands want to show up in places where other people are. The flip of that is everyone's really busy and attention's at a premium. So understanding if the juice is worth the squeeze when you're going into those really concentrated moments, are you going to have enough money to make a splash when you're in those concentrated moments? And are the people that you really hope are going to say yes to your RSVP list, going to say yes to your branded event at a really cluttered cultural moment in time? Those are all things I encourage my clients to think about.

Speaker B: Yeah, totally agree with that. That it comes down to what your goals are. Um, I've done events, uh, with all sorts of different goals. One being just first and foremost, awareness, or down to really deepening relationships that you already have with consumers. Um, I would say, uh, one of the events that we did earlier this year, um, for K Beauty World, we were at south by Southwest, and it was the one that we were the most iffy on because we were kind of like, I don't know, is a South by Southwest audience going to care about K Beauty? And so we had just come off of being at Century in la, which Was super, super, super successful. Had, you know, constantly in line all day. And so then when we were getting ready to go to Austin, we were like, okay, we hope this is good. It turned out to be the most successful venue by far. Constantly aligned. We had thousands and thousands of people and it was more even just at the end of it, we did surveys of like some of the guests and everyone was so thrilled. We had so many people say I was really not familiar with K Beauty at all, but now I really want to try everything. I'm so excited. And so from m going to a place that we were kind of unsure about. Um, we ended up making thousands of new fans and so many of them just organically shared and posted. It was a great lesson, I think, for all of us to not be so boxed in on certain venues. Because I know everyone wants to go to the Grove in Los Angeles, they want to do Flatiron in New York. But sometimes going to other locations that are a bit hungrier for more of a beauty audience can be a smart play.

Speaker D: I totally agree. Kind of depends on whether it's an influencer focused event. And then even in that. Are you looking at nurturing new relationships? Are you looking for new reach and new audiences? Is it about deepening existing relationships? For us, the Pop up in LA was community. So it was a celebration of our hometown Los Angeles and inviting everyone in our community who wanted to come to be able to come for the out of Office series. It was a mix. Um, we've been doing these kind of in real life market takeovers where we're tying, um, an influencer event to a retail personal appearance with Patrick and really kind of exciting the consumer base as well as the influencer community in those areas. And it's about both reaching new consumer audiences and deepening that engagement and driving ROI and having these little market takeovers, taking markets that really do perform for us, but also markets that maybe we can create new fans into. To Michelle's point, looking at all the different ways that we can bring the in real life experience in a kind of a more scalable way. We can't do a big house of glow pop up everywhere. It's just not financially responsible. But creating these smaller market takeovers allows us to reach more people in more places, builds that excitement. It's kind of like a tour. And using that out of Office thematic was really a way to tap into what consumer mindset is in the summer. I think we all wish we were out of office, but. Or you know, you see your friends on European Vacations or out, you know, um, in a beautiful beach locale. And how do you bring that energy to life for the brand and create these little out of office moments that tap into your consumer psyche at that moment? I think that that's important too is how do you as a brand become relevant in your consumer's life? What are they thinking about? Because people don't always want to be like, oh, you're selling something new. What is the brand pushing towards me? They want to feel like you understand their lifestyle and you can be kind of a part of what they're thinking about, what they're interested in. And so we always think about that when we think about locations and timing and the events. Like, how can this feel relevant and exciting and something that people would want to do for this example in the summertime, like a Hamptons backyard barbecue or a Miami yacht experience? Like, how do we make it feel relevant to the time and the place and the consumer that we're reaching?

Speaker A: I'm curious what markets are sort of interesting to you all right now as we talk about, like roadshows, we talk about traveling pop up. Um, you know, I heard Texas from Michelle. Of course, we know Miami. When I think of Texas, I think of the Ulta beauty world, huge success with their big event a few months back. Um, but curious what, what markets are sort of starved for beauty right now?

Speaker C: I would say Dallas, definitely. Like, um, so doubling down on Texas.

Speaker D: We were thinking about this a lot. I think that most brands and hey, look guilty, are like la, New York, maybe Miami gets in the mix. And we also think a lot about what's that second tier city strategy. What are those cities where there's not 15 competing activities at any given time because those consumers deserve to have a branded experience too. And how does your brand story maybe play into that? Is there a connection to that city in some way? Is there? You know, are we already in one place and we can pop to another? Um, I think there's so many places that can feel left out. Um, to your point, there's so many incredible places in Texas. Uh, and so thinking about the big markets, but also what are those that tier right below those big markets that would love to have the experience and you probably will get even more engagement, even more attendance, because you're not competing with not only beauty events, but a thousand other activities that people in these larger markets can enjoy.

Speaker B: Yeah, I will say too, we're talking about very large pop ups right now, but there's definitely the opportunity to do smaller pop ups to do in store events and other things. And Lexi, like you just mentioned, um, you know, Ulta flc, which is now open to consumers as well. But if you're an Ulta brand now, you're, you're activating down there. If you're a Sephora brand, you're at like their management conference. And so there's so many different ways that brands are activating and doing pop ups that aren't necessarily just the big kind of standalone ones now. And I would say too like it's very, it is expensive, right? Like it's very competitive right now for pop ups and it's very expensive. Even if you're trying to do it on the cheap. It's somehow always like your cost ends up going up. I would say too that um, it's really important for people to look at partnerships and how whether it's partnering on a venue or partnering on some of the gifting. We've obviously seen partnerships work so well just within beauty marketing in general that it helps you align with a like minded brand. That's also cool. You're tapping into their audience, but it can also help you to alleviate some of the cost too.

Speaker A: Let's stay on cost here for a second because what is a reasonable amount to expect to spend? Michelle's laughing already. That is laughing. We're all laughing. What is a, I mean for a brand that maybe is just dipping their toes in here, like, give me some ballparks.

Speaker D: Oof.

Speaker C: That's like asking how long is a piece of string? Lexi? I think it really depends on the brand. Um, but if you want some numbers, I think we are seeing pop ups start at around 250k. Um, for the type of pop up that a brand is going to want to do, that's going to make an actual impact in like one of the types of locations, like a New York, Louisiana, Miami, Dallas, um, type of location. I think that's what you're looking at for at least getting something that is going to really cut through the clutter. I don't. Michelle, would you agree with that?

Speaker B: I agree. I think, um, yes. Could you do something that's less expensive? Absolutely, absolutely. So we've seen before, you know, there's lots of beauty brands that will do the ice cream truck, they'll do like the ice cream cart and things. But like I said before, it is incredibly competitive right now. And so yes, you'll get a little bit of attention from those things. But truly to get again the type of attention that we've been talking about during this Whole podcast. I do think that you have to be prepared to invest and that is because you want to have the best teams working on it. You have the most clever, creative ideas. You want to make sure that it's not just serving the people in that moment, but that again, it truly has legs beyond that one day or two days or however long it is.

Speaker D: And especially if you think about a large scale pop up, you're doing a full build out. So how can you think about that over the course of multiple days? How do you maximize the dollars that you're putting in? I mean these, these beautiful buildups are almost retail pop up locations. And there's different ways you can do it to your point, whether it's a traveling truck or maybe it's a little cart, or maybe it's something smaller scale on a community level that is a community masterclass or a dinner. So there are definitely ways to engage with your brand fans in your community under $250,000. But if you are talking about big, large scale pop up where it feels like an installation to make it feel meaningful and to have people again feel like what they're getting is worth what they're giving of their time, that feels about right.

Speaker C: And one other thing I would add to that is, and we do this, um, not in the beauty space, but for one of our other brands. We work for, um, Beyonce's whiskey brand, Sir Davis, and they have a lot of trade show events. So similar to the beauty space, they're always kind of like traveling around different locations on the B2B side. And um, we also work with Beauty matters in the kind of B2B space and, and creating custom elements. If you know that you're going to be doing pop ups quite often and then having that asset that you can move and ship from space to space is also something to be thought about. Oftentimes brands will do a pop up and then scrap everything and then call us a couple months later and we're like, I mean, if we had just invested in doing something right the first time, maybe we would be having some efficiencies of scale conversations. So I think thinking holistically about your roadmap and your pop up and experiential strategy and measuring, what is it? Measuring once, measuring twice, cutting once, measuring twice, cutting once. Um, I think that would be a really strategic approach as well because some of this stuff can be built up beautifully and custom to your brand and then travel with the brand to different pop ups at different locations.

Speaker B: Yeah. And it comes down to the audience that you're looking for too, because, for example, if you're doing a standalone pop up where you're inviting people to come, that's quite different from activating at a Coachella or a big event where obviously your venue and just the charge that you will have from being part of that event will be a pretty high cost already. But again, there's pros to that as well, where you're getting the audience from that event.

Speaker A: Well, well, Michelle, Netta, Jacqueline, I am so happy to have had you three here giving us so much amazing information. Thank you so much for coming on the pod. Any last pieces of advice or lessons for anyone, uh, planning a popup or wanting to plan a pop up?

Speaker C: The last piece of advice is just really to remember that the investment is a long term strategy. I think Jaclyn talked about it a little bit earlier and remember that what you're investing in is that love, uh, on a cellular level and that talking strategically to your stakeholders about the fact that it is a long term investment will go a long way.

Speaker D: I would just say to add to that and just cap off some of the things we've been discussing, um, really think about who this is for and is a pop up the right way to reach them? Right. I think we also can feel the FOMO of being a brand. Like everyone's doing a pop up. We should do a pop up. Let's think about what you need. What stage of your brand journey are you in? Are you building awareness? Are you trying to deepen engagement? Are you trying to get to new customers and reach? Is it about a city specific plan? Like, is popup the right strategy for what you're trying to achieve? And then I say do sweat the details. Really spend the time thinking about that experience, that journey. Would I go to this experience? What would make it worth it? How can we bring elements of the brand to life in a fun and experiential way? That's not just try this product. You know what, they can go to Sephora for our brand and try the product every single day. So there's an element of that. Of course we have an artistry team there, you know, to help them find shades, but they can't get custom swag or merch. They can't have that experience of the line and handing out the mochi card and the beautiful male models. Think about the things that will make it feel special, sweat all of those little details. Because if you're waiting 12 hours, you're looking at every single detail and it feels special to you. And then I think start with a mindset of gratitude, love and community as your North Star. Yes, behind the scenes, you have your budget, you have your spreadsheet, you have your roi. But what's going to foster that long term brand love? What's going to be the thing that makes someone feel proud to have attended and excited to share with someone else and really think about that love and care that you put into it and that's what's going to come back to the brand.

Speaker B: Uh, two things for me. One would be expect the best, but plan for the worst. Things happen all the time with events. This is a live event. There will be rain, something will come late, something's going to break, something's going to spill. So be prepared for all of those things. Make sure that you train the staff really well in case they have questions. You want to make sure that everyone is kind of like fully educated on things. Make sure you have. It's kind of like building a house too, right? Like, make sure you have more than enough time for setup, that you have full staff for setup. Because those things always take a lot longer than you might think. And then kind of, to Jacqueline's point too, have fun. I think ultimately it's about making sure that the guest has a great time. I've been to way too many pop ups in my lifetime that just feel kind of blah. And we're in too competitive of an environment right now for that to really break through. So like Jacqueline said, really sweat all those details because ultimately this is about how you can delight these people so that then they leave here wanting to be ambassadors for your brand and understanding that everything is connected. So as you are planning things, how do you connect this one physical event that you're having to every piece of your strategy? Whether that's retail, it's influencer, it becomes a content creation hub for you. Connecting all those things are going to be what help that event actually have that value that then people kind of take and like, you know, they're eager to have the next one.

Speaker A: Yeah. Amazing. Well, ladies, thank you so much.

Speaker C: Thanks for having us.

Speaker B: Uh, thank you.

Speaker D: Thank you so much for having us.

Speaker A: And thank you for listening to this episode of the Glossy Beauty Podcast. If you enjoyed it, please leave us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening. And for even more coverage on the beauty industry and more, please visit Glossy Co Beauty.

Speaker C: Mhm.