100. Using Audience Testing To Avoid Expensive Mistakes w/ PickFu’s Justin Chen

Speaker A: Well, hey, folks, welcome back to another episode of the Brand Builder Show. Uh, but it's not just any old episode. It's actually the 100th episode of the show. And I'm super pumped about this huge milestone we've got to. I wanted to jump on to do a little bit of a different intro before we dive into today's episode, just to let you know that as we reach the hundredth episode of the show, we are taking a little bit of a break. Now, the reason we're doing that is because we've got some great plans and great ideas around the podcast, making it even better, sprucing up the format, bringing you the very best content we possibly can. But in order to do that, we're just having a little bit of a break to get everything sorted out on that, and we'll be back in the spring with new episodes. We thought that we would wait until the hundredth episode because it is a pretty distinctive milestone. So here we are with the hundredth episode. And, uh, we will be taking that short break, but we will keep you communicated about when we'll be back inside our weekly newsletter, the Ecom Memo, which will continue. If you're not subscribed, subscribed to that yet, please do subscribe to that in the description so you can hear all of the latest news coming out of the world of E commerce and stay in touch with us there as well. Today's episode, we've got Justin Chen from Pickfu. It's a really great episode. Just finished recording it and we talked all about preference testing to really test your products, your branding, your packaging, your marketing, everything you can think of prior to investing money into it so you can save that money on making mistakes, on not doing things with your products that your audience wouldn't particularly like. So, uh, really good episode. Justin's a really sharp dude. I really enjoyed the conversation and I know that you will get a lot out of it. So without further ado, uh, let's get into it. But do make sure you are subscribed to the podcast wherever you're listening, so you do get notified when those episodes restart. Episode 101 coming at you in the spring. All right, let's jump into the episode. Hey, folks, welcome back to another episode of the Brand Builder Show. And in today's episode, we are going to talk about one of the most important, important marketing strategies you can employ in your business, and that is split testing or AB testing. And, uh, it's going to be a really fun episode to talk through that today. We have Justin on the show. Justin, uh, thanks so much for coming on.

Speaker B: Yeah, thanks for having me Ben.

Speaker A: I'm excited to talk through, as I said, what is a massive, massive subject. But before we do that, why don't you talk us through who you are and why you are such an expert in this field.

Speaker B: Sure, yeah. So I'm one of the co founders of Pickfu, which is a, um, consumer insights platform. And we kind of fell into this actually because uh, my, my co founder John and I were building a completely different business years ago and we needed something to get feedback on a redesign that we were working on. And so being engineers we decided to build a solution and that was Pickfu. And uh, over the years we've uh, we've developed a lot of, a lot of experience and expertise as we continue to hone the product and really fine tune it for um, a market that's been underserved for gathering consumer research, which is a lot of small businesses, even mid sized, that don't have the budgets or the expertise to tap into market, uh, research. Consultants.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And whereabouts in the world are you guys based?

Speaker B: Um, we're both in California, I'm in Los Angeles, he's up in the Bay Area. But our team is fully remote, um, all over the globe. Uh, and, and part of that is very intentional because we found that our customer base is very global. So we particularly have respondents uh, in the U.S. and so we started seeing a lot of customers outside the US testing, um, because they sell into the US marketplace. And so we wanted to have a team that reflects that diversity and make sure that we keep uh, all the cultural and language, uh, uh, differences in mind as we build the product.

Speaker A: Yeah, very cool, very cool. Good stuff. Okay, so, um, lots to obviously talk about and pick up from your journey. I suppose the beginning question for anybody that's listening to this thinking, especially as you said, this is like an underserved market. The traditional Amazon seller doesn't think too much about split testing because it's not been an inherent part of the platform for so long. Obviously starting to change a bit more now, but still not a, uh, you know, a forefront strategy that the typical Amazon seller would look at. So let's start at the beginning. What is split testing and why is it so important?

Speaker B: Yeah, I guess there's a lot of different ways that people define split testing. Um, when you're split testing live like on Amazon or website, uh, split testing, you're typically presenting um, one or another option at a given time and you're Trying to see which one performs better. So you're tracking like, oh, option a had a 10% lift over maybe the baseline, which might be option B. So when we do split testing, we actually do it off platform. So we kind of have these simple surveys where you ask a question, you present a couple options to our audience and it's privately done, um, so it's not impacting sales. And actually it could be something that completely doesn't exist yet. Right. You could be testing hypothetical products or images or logos or whatever it is. Um, so in our case we uh, call it more of a preference test because you're asking people to. They see the different options and then they choose which one they like and more importantly they give you a written explanation why. And so that's really insightful to understand how you can improve it for uh, perhaps the next variation or if you're testing against a competitor, understanding why you're not getting the clicks and maybe they are so that you also, uh, have things that you could work on. So there's a lot of different ways to do this kind of testing. Um, obviously Amazon does have manager experiments and uh, we definitely recommend people do that. But we recommend using Pickfu earlier in the process as you're developing those creatives so that not everything is seeing light of day. Um, and you're going to have a lot more creative freedom to try out different things in a private avenue than always testing live. And there is danger of testing live because you're losing sales kind of by definition. You're putting an option that's not as strong as the other option. Um, and it does take a lot of time, um, for those live experiments to complete, depending on how much traffic you have, um, and whatnot.

Speaker A: Yeah, that was going to be my next question, which you kind of answered there really. But I would like to understand a bit more and help the audience understand your best clients that are most successful. Uh, I imagine they're using the pre, um, preference surveys as you called them, as well as split testing. They were using them both hand in hand.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. So, um, they're typically doing all the iterative development of the creatives using Pickfu. And um, you could actually test things, uh, uh, not. You don't always have to test things against each other. You could also do open ended feedback on a single thing. So you might even just start with your. Whatever your image is. Now ask an open end question of like, hey, what do you like or dislike about this? You could do that on your listing as well. Point Point them to your whole Amazon listing, kind of get a crowdsource audit, um, and start getting ideas of what to improve. And so once you read through all the feedback, uh, the written feedback, you'll start to surface, like, okay, maybe, you know, maybe it's a layout, maybe it's the, you know, the color or whatever it is. Start working with your designer to adjust those and start iteratively testing first against your own variations and then validating it against your competition to make sure that, uh, you're not just optimizing in a vacuum. Because sometimes people get really caught up on just creating the best version of their own image without testing against the competitors. But it is a competitive marketplace. Like, at the end of the day, if you don't do better or get your competition, it doesn't really matter what you've optimized. So that's the typical process that we see. Um, but more impactful, actually, is our most successful customers are using it even earlier in the product process.

Speaker A: Yeah, and I'd like to talk through the different stages of where this can be useful, because as you said, there are a lot of different stages in the business where it seems like it can be really powerful. The question before we do that, though, is do you find that obviously with split testing, like on a live listing where people are buying, um, people are obviously voting with their money, do you find there's a similar intent with a preference, different survey? Ah, what are your feelings there?

Speaker B: Ah, yeah, obviously that's, that's going to be the, the best data, is that. That live data. Um, but I think what this can give you is objections, uh, that may occur, you know, like as they're thinking through the buying process, trying to surface the things that might come up. And so, um, obviously the, the numbers aren't going to reflect 1 to 1, 100% all the time. Um, but what we can do is provide as much directional feedback as possible. So, you know, it's kind of no different than if you were to go into a coffee shop or, you know, talk to a group of moms, if that's your target audience, and trying to get their feedback ahead of time. You're just trying to de risk as much as you can before going live with whatever it is that you're. You're trying to publish. So, um, yeah, the name of the game is, is de risking. And so, um, that's why we try to get people to do that final competitive test. Because, like, that is the, the closest thing we can approximate. And a lot of times we'll even have people testing uh, mockups of. It'll be like the image and the stars and the titles and uh, the price and all that. Because those are all factors in the click. It's not just the main image, it's kind of a combination of those things. And we've actually seen people just adjust the main image and be able to overcome um, lower number of reviews or a higher price. And you know, uh, it's really interesting to see how the interplay of each one of those components can actually impact uh, people's perception of the product.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And I think you highlight a significant aspect in terms of the lack of investment before you do the test. You can decide uh, before spending money,

Speaker B: you know, test before you.

Speaker A: That's a great saying. Yeah, I love it. If you know, you give people an option of a blue yoga mat and a red yoga mat and nobody wants a blue yoga mat, it's a good job you didn't order half of the inventory in that color because you know there's no point split testing it when you once you bought it if nobody wanted it in the first place. So. Yes, that's good thoughts. Yeah, um, in terms of platform, are you finding a lot of Amazon sellers are doing this? Is it useful for direct to consumer Shopify etc as well?

Speaker B: Yeah, um, most of our E Comm is Amazon just because that's where you've been kind of focused marketing wise. But we do have a lot of DDC brands and a lot of uh, DDC brands are selling on different marketplaces. So we start to see a lot of people testing different um, behaviors in different channels. Um, and then there's a lot of other aspects that are not Amazon specific that you could test. Obviously branding and packaging. A lot of uh, retail product packaging, testing that's even, you know, that's even harder to life test. Right. So um, really getting your packaging right design wise when you're selling into brick and mortar, uh, is really important. As we see a lot of Amazon sellers get larger, they're starting to get these distribution channels into uh, physical retail and that's when they're doing even more packaging testing.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's good, Very good. Okay. So it'd be good to talk about some different stages of the sort of journey. Uh obviously all begins with, I was going to say it begins with product research but it doesn't. It begins with you know, um, the brand, you know, building the brand and who your target audience is. Do you start that early or is the first time you would suggest using Pickflu for product research.

Speaker B: Ah, yeah, I would say, um, I mean, any of those things because if you think about it as a digital focus group and you had your target audience in front of you, like, what are the questions you would ask them? And you would probably start asking pretty broad questions. Like if, let's just say you're targeting moms with infants, uh, which is something we can target, and you say, what are the issues that you have? What are the issues you have with diaper bags? Like, what are the issues you have with feeding your child and just really getting them to articulate it. And maybe you're still at that phase where you're trying to figure out, okay, what's the exact product I'm trying to, uh, sell? This could be super, um, invaluable then as you hone in on it. Okay, I want to do a diaper bag, but I'm going to, I'm going to switch up some of the features on it. So I'm going to present a concept or even just write out an articulation of like the value prop that I'm going to have. Now, what do you think about it? Like, would you buy this? Maybe. How much would you pay for it? Um, how, how does this compare to some of the ones that you've seen? So really just think of it as that focus group and you want to keep going back and validate all these small assumptions as you're making decisions. Um, then once you've honed in on that, you could iterate on product design, you could iterate on branding, product, um, names, all those kinds of things. Um, obviously packaging design. Um, and of course, along the way as you're doing product design and packaging, you'll still want to compare it against your, your competition at some point. Right. So, you know, okay, like, I think I've got a new variation of a product and my moms are liking it. But I want to make sure that I'm going to get, you know, I'm going to chip away at the incumbents, uh, in that category. So definitely test the competition. Um, and then, yeah, kind of iterating on every step along the way until you get the final product and start working on the marketing creatives.

Speaker A: Yeah, m. Definitely. There's lots of stages there, isn't there? It's a lot more involved than I think, again, the traditional Amazon seller would get. You know, I think obviously do product research in a bit of a vacuum and think, well, you know, Helium 10 says it's a good product to sell. So I'M going to sell it and kind uh, of leave it there. And obviously we teach people, I look at the reviews, study ways you can improve on a product. But there's ah, again that's in a little bit of a vacuum still. And there's something to be said for actually getting in front of your target audience and asking them what do they think? Yeah, um, you know, product research. But as you've alluded to there as well, product development is another phase where you've decided on a product, you're going to sell your diaper bag, as you say. But there are maybe some things that you have, you've studied reviews and you think, I could improve on it here. But then taking it one step further and bringing it to an audience to give their thoughts back to you is almost sort of extra validation. Um, but do they then give you further ideas? How does that work? Can you kind of crowdsource ideas for improving the product?

Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. Uh, I mean a lot of times, uh, when people are testing, uh, doing an open ended test, they'll say, hey, this is the concept I have. What do you like and dislike about it? Or what would you improve about it? And people will offer up their suggestions. Um, this hypothetical test is so, so interesting in that our most advanced customers, what they'll do, um, you know, they'll start with the Helium 10 keyword research and all that kind of stuff, kind of seeing where the volume is. And you know, they'll have this huge spreadsheet of product opportunities. But the way they decide which one they actually go after is by running these hypothetical tests where they go through the process of, okay, I'm gonna, my approach to this product type is going to be this, you know, I 3D designed it, I've even gone so far to create like a pretty good main image. And then I do a pickfu test against a competition. And they'll just do that for every single opportunity. And only the ones that they make a significant dent against the competition are the ones that they're going to go after. Because at the end of the day it doesn't matter how big the keyword opportunity is if you can't dent someone. You know, if everyone's got 10,000 reviews and you have no shot at it, then you know it's going to be an uphill battle. So it's really interesting to see all these hypothetical tests. Um, and it's really disheartening because a lot of times our customers, our new customers will come to us and they come to us wanting to just improve their main image because maybe the click through rate's not doing well. They'll run a test against your competition and the, the feedback is uh, inevitably, oh, I don't like the design, I don't like your packaging, your brand name is silly. Like all these feedback on all these things that they can't change now. Right. Because they're just trying to move the product that they were having inventory and all these things. They could have had feedback earlier in the process. And so that's why we really try to get people to, to test these micro decisions throughout the process so that by the time you hit the end it's not showing up in low sales or in bad reviews or whatnot.

Speaker A: You mentioned brand name. There is, are those wider brand elements things that people are testing as well? Brand look, brand design, logo, name.

Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. So testing resonance, uh, with the target audience because um, I don't know about you, but a lot of times I'll see stuff on Amazon where I'm looking to buy a product and the brand name just does not fit for the type of product it is. Um, first of all, a lot of them, they don't make any sense. But sometimes it's like, oh, the name is like tech, but like it's supposed to be some like kitchen and home goods. And it's like that's kind of weird. Like it just seems like a mismatch. So, so a lot of times you could do things where you know, you ask a question, um, I'm starting a brand that's for kitchen and home goods. Which of these brand names like sounds like it would resonate with you? Um, and then you could do the same as you're designing the logo and just trying to get the look and feel to match so that it, because, because it makes a big difference. Um, even if you're a brand that's not well known, people do see the brand and they see the branding and it feels like, okay, well this, this is a company that's trying and that's going into this space. It's not a fly by night or a company that just has a bunch of random products because they're going after every single opportunity. Um, you want to go after someone who's focused in a specific category because it feels like they're going to be uh, around and that they put a little bit more thought into the product. And so I think all those things are important for, for getting that final sale.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And it looks like they didn't just mash the keyboard with their palm when they submitted their trademark, which is what

Speaker B: a lot of them look like.

Speaker A: I mean, I've, you know, I'm pretty sure it's just because they're easy to trademark and it's. Yeah, you know, they're just often selling commodity products where it's just the cheapest price wins and. But if you do want to build a brand, which obviously we believe is absolutely essential for success on Amazon and beyond, you know, in the coming years, then these, these things are important, aren't they?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, so listing optimization, then obviously we've mentioned main image a lot. What else can be done with Pickfu to really get that conversion rate really humming?

Speaker B: Yeah, so definitely copy. Um, so you could be working on, uh, your bullet points or any of. Any of your a content. You could test copy, uh, variations. Um, one popular test is asking people, um, what's important when you're buying this kind of product. So, you know, if you're buying a diaper bag, uh, just asking an open end question, like, what are the important factors to you and having them just kind of articulate, oh, I'm looking for this, I'm looking for this. Okay, well, maybe those are things that you should focus on. Uh, focus your bullets, focus your secondary images. Uh, make sure that you're really honing in on those points. Um, so copy is important. You could test video. Um, so as you're creating the video, uh, what we do, what we recommend is kind of testing the different components. So whether that's background, uh, music or voiceover actors, or even the script or we've seen people testing storyboards, um, even. And so there's a lot of different components you could test as you're building the video. So you're not spending all that production time building a video and then testing it. And then, you know, again, people saying like, oh, well, I don't know. This is. It doesn't feel right. And I don't like the voice. Like, the music's weird. So test all those components before you get to the final product. And by the time you get to the final product, you're going to have something that is going to resonate well with your audience.

Speaker A: Yeah, I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit here and ask you for kind of like, I suppose, a case study or an example of a brand. Not a specific brand, obviously don't name them, but if you don't want to. But, um, that's done this really well because I think that a lot of listeners will be thinking oh gosh. Like this sounds like quite a lot of hard work, um, you know, potentially expensive and lots of tests are run. And of course the response would be, well, you know, the cost will pay off because you avoid making the mistakes, etc. But have you got any sort of real world examples of how this has played out for brands in the current market?

Speaker B: Yeah, so we have a couple of case studies on the website, uh, that you guys can check out. But um, let's see, we can start with a simple one first. So a simple one would be yes, bar, which is one of those kind of nutritional, uh, granola bars. And uh, we were working with them to explicitly test out how just changing the main image would make an impact. And so um, we worked on just changing the layout. We didn't reshoot anything, we just tweak with the layout. We ran a pickfu test of uh, three different variations of it. Um, so I think the final, the one test was 70 bucks, 70 US dollars. Um, we ran it for two weeks and um, after those two weeks we saw a 12% increase in um, sessions and click throughs. And so that led to just uh, in those two weeks an increase of $3,000 in sales. And so immediately immediate ROI, um, of a 70 test and took almost no effort. It was just, literally just changing the main image, you know, kind of adjusting the layout of things. And so that was an easy one. Um, we had another one that was a headphone manufacturer and so they were losing against a top competitor. And so the first thing they did was enlarge the image because their competition had a larger image. And that immediately, um, they did well in that test. Um, and then they started looking at the other components that other uh, headphone, uh, companies were doing, like laying it out in a way that had all the um, individual parts that were coming with it, you know, all the extra earpieces and all that kind of stuff. Kind of like just playing around with all the different layouts. Ran about a different, a dozen different tests, kind of testing all these different things. In the end, uh, not only did they increase, um, increase the sales, but they were able to increase the price as well. But I think it was €8, uh, selling in um, the European market. And so all that from just changing the main image. So nothing to do with the product or the branding of the packaging. Just kind of iterating on the imagery, using pick fu, trying out different layouts, kind of learning best practices, see if it would work with their product and uh, actually improved like revenue, uh, not only through more sales but also higher price. So those are all really interesting case studies, rebranding, um, wise, kind uh, of our biggest one was the Thrasio brand Angry Orange, uh, which is one of their keystone, uh, products. And back in the day they came to us because after they had bought it, um, if you see the packaging that they bought, the original packaging, it kind of looked a little homegrown. And so they wanted to rebrand it to kind of give it edgier look. And so they went through all these different design variations, um, centered in. On. On one that they tested with Pickfu, really validated that it was going to do a much better, um, and um, immediately saw, ah, I think it was a 30 to 40% increase in sales of, uh, 180 units per day as soon as they launched that new, uh, packaging. And from there that's, that's still the branding and packaging that they still use across all the different line variations that they've developed. Um, so huge testament to, to kind of testing, testing these concepts out, um, ahead of time.

Speaker A: Yeah, very cool. I think their, um, packaging, Angry Orange, I think it was white, wasn't it, before? I don't know. But just anyway. Yeah, it just seems crazy to me.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Because it's bright orange now, isn't it?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's a bright orange bottle that really pops. And, and that's the thing is it really pops in the search results. Right. As you're looking through the different, um, you know, pet deodorizers.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. Very cool. Um, you mentioned a few things there that bring me on to the next thing that I want to try and understand, I suppose, is about the platform and the dynamics of it. Some of the things that are being tested there, um, a few questions on the platform, how it all works. Uh, the first one is in terms of test size, what kind of, uh, size audience are you testing on a, you know, an average test?

Speaker B: Yeah, I would say on average, uh, Amazon sellers test between 50 and 100, uh, people. But it really, it really depends on, uh, the type of thing that you're doing. So, um, we can go as low as 15. And if you're iterating on some small design variations, like maybe I'm working on packaging and I'm just kind of playing with fonts or like small colors. I would probably just do 15 at a time. Um, and we sell them at a dollar per response. So it starts at US$15 per poll for 15 responses. And so that allows you to get feedback, uh, very rapidly, relatively cheaply. Um, and Honestly, if it comes back 10 to 5, it's going to be statistically significant enough um, to feel confident in that decision. If you were to run a test and you're trying to validate a more final decision or, you know, against a competition, yeah, I would recommend probably at least 100 responses. Uh, we can go up to 500, but um, that's usually the larger brands that tend to do that. Um, but yeah, so one of the, one of the nice things about the platforms that you can always add more respondents. So you know, if you start with 15 or 30 and it kind of comes back a little close, but you want a little bit more data, you can uh, you can add more responses to get it to 100 or 200. Um, you could always stop it early as well. So if you started with 200 and it's coming back 9010, uh, you can stop it early, get that credit prorated to your account and uh, go on with that lower number, uh, of responses.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's good. You have that flexibility to add more people in. I didn't realize that that's a really good feature. In terms of niching down. You mentioned mums earlier on for diaper bags. How niche can you get? Uh, what kind of demographics are we talking about?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think we've got over 70 different ways to target people. So we definitely have the basics like age and gender, uh, income. But we also have behavioral, uh, things. So do you play sports, do you drink coffee, do you drink beer? Do you take nutritional supplements or use cosmetic products? Um, so a lot of those things that um, uh, a lot of sellers are targeting, um, and a lot of these attributes were from customer feedback. So if there's something that, that we're not targeting yet, definitely let us know. It's, you know, and we'll look into uh, see, seeing if we can build that niche audience. Um, yeah, so primarily us right now we do have uk ah, Australia, Canada, Germany and we just opened up Mexico and Japan as well. So um, if you're looking to move into any of those marketplaces, I definitely suggest doing some product validation. Make sure that just because it sold well in the U.S. uh, make sure that the people want your particular version of the product in those marketplaces. Even testing all your branding, uh, branding is an easy place to make a snafu when you're going cross language, cross culture, uh, and of course packaging and marketing. A lot of different cultures like to see information displayed in different formats. So um, don't just take what works in one market. And think it's going to work in another one.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That is a really good use case to be fair, because, uh, especially when you've got such culturally different marketplaces, um, you know, I know you're not necessarily in all of them yet, or. Yeah, um, maybe the plan is hopefully. But the, uh, the, you know, places like Germany and Japan are so different to the US and the UK and there's so many cultural differences there, isn't there? So. Yeah, definitely. No, that's good, man. I, I really think it's obviously such a, A, uh, big important thing for people to be doing with their accounts testing this kind of thing. Are there any things that your more advanced sellers are doing to be able to take this one step further? Um, or is there any kind of other sort of final bits of advice you can give people when considering this testing side of things?

Speaker B: Um, I think the biggest thing is just to get in the habit of gathering some kind of feedback from your target audience. Like you said before, I think a lot of us are kind of caught in our own heads and we've got our, our teams and circle of trusted advisors that we ask for opinions from, but a lot of times they're not necessarily our target audience or that you can get into that group think a little too easily. So just getting into the habit of using data, whether it's life testing with manager experiments or finding a Facebook group or something where you're kind of bouncing these ideas off strangers, I think is really important. Uh, and that'll start getting you used to um, the habit and kind of like culturally used to gathering, uh, data for things. Um, and then of course, you know, like start small and gather feedback on your listing or your, your, the product that you have now and just ask people like, what do you like or dislike about this? Uh, a funny question that a lot of people start with is what do you think this is? A lot of agencies will do this with their clients because they'll, they'll, the clients will go to the agency with like a really maybe poor packaging or something like that, and the agency will want to prove to them that like, hey, no one knows what they this is. And so just putting that image out there and saying, hey, what do you think this is? And uh, it's, it's quite comical what sometimes people think certain products are. So, you know, really making sure that uh, what you think you're communicating is being communicated to your target audience. And that's really, uh, the crux of

Speaker A: it made me think of another question actually. Do you get many brand DTC brands testing their ads? You know, like, uh, social media ads? Is that something you can do?

Speaker B: Yeah, we do see a lot of social, uh, media content, uh, testing, Even thumbnails for YouTube, um, you know, short video clips, things like that, um, even just ad creatives, uh, a lot of like pre testing. Yeah, because it can get really expensive when you're optimizing that though on, on those other platforms and this is at least a capped amount that you're paying and, and you get the written feedback. So it's like, oh, people aren't resonating with this tone that we're going with. Like let's, let's change.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, that was my thinking. It could save you a lot of money in ad spend to test things and when the creators are so important these days with paid advertising. Yeah, that could be a really good way to um, save costs but get some really good insight as well. So. Yeah, it's fascinating. Um, amazing. So where can people find out more about Pickfu and get involved if uh, they want to test us out?

Speaker B: Yeah, so check us out. Pickfu.com picfu.com if you use the code bbu, uh, you'll get 50% off your first poll. Um, also when you sign up for free, uh, we have an onboarding process that includes a small 5 response, um, uh, poll so that you get to see what it's like without, without uh, putting your credit card in. So that, that's a great way to get a feel for it. Um, so definitely check that out. You can connect with me on LinkedIn. Um, I'm Justin Chen on LinkedIn. Um, if you want to chat more.

Speaker A: Yeah, fantastic. Well we'll get all of those links in the description and the show notes. This has been, yeah, really insightful and I think it's really answered a lot of questions for people that might think, well, I could just use, manage my experiments for free. Uh, you know, but this is obviously shown that there's a significant, uh, you know, potential saving to be made on making wrong decisions. There's quick growth because of making the right decisions earlier on in the process. So yeah, I think really, really valuable tool, valuable discussion. So yeah, thanks for taking the time Justin. We, yeah, we really appreciate it.

Speaker B: Yeah, thanks for having me.

Speaker A: No worries. You're so welcome. Well, there you go folks. Um, let us know if you do decide to use Pickfu. I'd love to hear some of your results because, um, yeah, it's super, super useful. When you're marketing, you need to be testing things, testing new things, making sure you're serving your audience as best as possible. So thanks for joining us on this episode. Do give it a like a subscribe and we'll see you in the next episode very soon. Take care. There you have it folks. Episode 100 in the Can. Just a reminder if you didn't catch it at the beginning, we are taking a short break with the podcast now. We're we will be back in the spring with a freshened up format with some more great guests making even better conversations for you to learn and grow your e commerce brand to 2024 and beyond. So make sure you are subscribed to the eCommemo, our weekly newsletter and that you are subscribed on YouTube and the podcast platforms you listen on to make sure that you are notified when those new episodes do drop very, very soon. You can get in touch with us anytime you like through our website brand builder uni.com and we will look forward to seeing you in the next episode. Not quite real soon, but kind of soon. We'll see you soon. Take care.