Ep 135 Time Optimization with David Buck

Speaker A: Continuous improvement comes in lots of different flavors and styles.

Speaker B: I'm Bella Engelbach and I'm inviting you

Speaker A: to journey with me to the edges of Lean. Episode 135 Time Optimization with David Buck. What's the only thing we all have the same amount of? It's the number of hours in our day. We live in a culture that is focused on productivity. But David Buck, the author of the Time Optimized Life, has a different perspective on time. He says we should be thinking about time optimization, not time management. And he bases his approach on Lean thinking. I invited him to spend a little time with me at the edges of Lean to share his insights. This conversation is especially important for people who are considering retirement or, uh, or other major work transitions.

Speaker B: David Buck, welcome to the ages of Lean.

Speaker C: Honored to be here, Bella. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker B: It's wonderful to have you here today and I would love it if you would just introduce yourself to everybody.

Speaker C: Sure. I come to where I'm at right now through 35 plus years in business development. That's a fancy word for sales. And I found early on in my sales career, business development career, and this is very heavy on the sarcasm that these are stunning, amazingly good looks and charisma weren't going to get me anywhere. And I found that as I helped my clients, first of all, if I was better prepared than my competition, that helped me get the sale. And then when I made my life easier for my clients, I found I kept them. And that was through. I found my use of time. And so I've been fascinated throughout my career about how I can use my time and any of my direct reports through my corporate career. How they use their time was really became the signature for my success. And then when I wrote my book the Time Optimized Life, I actually got inspired by the concept of time optimization through Lean manufacturing principles that my last employer before I started my own business used in their process. And I'm like, wow, it's really. I was really impressed and amazed by how detailed Lean goes into things, but it's a continuous process and that's how I wanted to apply people in their use of time.

Speaker B: Well, it's really interesting and I love the connection that you're making with Lean. I mean, time is one of the few things that, you know, we all have exactly the same amount, right? We have different needs for how much time we spend with family, how much time at work, how much rest we need. I mean, so, uh, we all have those different needs, but we all have the same amount of time. And as you said, that in Lean, you know, we talk about flow and we talk about productivity and we talk about respect for people. And I would think, you know, part of respect for people is actually helping all of us make the best use of, uh, that same amount of time that we've been given. But when we think about productivity, it really is over time, right? It's, it's how much can you produce or how much can. How much waste can you eliminate over a period of time? It's so deeply tied into what we do. So, David, and you kind of specialize now, I understand, in a certain period of people's careers or lives. So can you tell us about that? Sure.

Speaker C: Two main elements. I still work with people in what I call in career. So those who, individuals, businesses and teams try to improve their productivity from an individual standpoint. So it's not tied to a process, but it's how do I help the individual. But in my own personal journey, I was blessed with parents who pushed me at my first job to save for the future. And I'm like mom and dad. I just, I just want gas money to go out with my friends. But they really emphasized with it. To me, it stuck. And so a, uh, few years ago, when my wife and I were with our financial advisors, I didn't know. My wife just asked the question. She said, hey, what if Dave retired today? And they said, well, we prefer you wait a little longer, but if you had to, yes, you would have to live a frugal lifestyle for while. Well, that was a total game changer for me because I hadn't thought about what happens to my life if I choose to remove work from it. And that led me on a personal journey to start to understand what would time be like in retirement without work.

Speaker B: It is such a shock, I have to. I have to say. So if I can just share a personal story. So I was, I worked. And the people listen to the show know this. Um, I worked for a very large international corporation for many, many years. Um, and one day, as it happens, as it happens to a lot of people, the company and I kind of decided that we weren't going to be working together anymore. And it was a little bit of a shock to me, but it was also, you know, a wonderful opportunity and went through the whole, you know, sort of retirement, leaving the company process to name my laptop and everything. And the first day that I didn't have work, David, I did not know what to do with myself. I didn't know where to go. I'd been working from home for years, so I have an office, so should I go to my office? Well, what am I going to do in my office? And my husband, who had been retired for a couple of years before me, said to me, said to me, you are driving me crazy. You're absolutely driving me crazy. And it's because, David, I hadn't thought about what I was going to do with that time. Right. It just seemed like this wonderful luxury. But then when you have that luxury, what are you going to do with it? And how do you, how do you, you know, get back to that fulfilling feeling that work gives you?

Speaker C: Well, and consider this, what if. And yours is a great example of how many people are like, they wake up going, wow, this is, this is a lot different. I hadn't thought of it. And so I try to tell people, uh, regardless of where your stage is in life, because if someone's listening and they lose their job in, in essence for a period of time, they're going to have to flow through until they seek gainful employment again. But if you're working 48 hours a week and you're fortunate enough to sleep seven hours a night, that's 40% of your awake time. That is with built in structure. Mhm. And so what happens if you take that away? How are you going to fill that 40%? And I work with clients who I see do amazing jobs filling that 40%. And then I see others who, it becomes a cycle of their world becomes smaller and smaller and smaller. So I want to help train people beforehand to make good time habits before you head into retirement so your world doesn't get smaller.

Speaker B: Wow. And just to uh, kind of feed on what you just said, I just read something the other day about how you were talking about how people's worlds could become smaller and smaller and smaller. How that becoming smaller, having fewer connections is really bad for people's mental and physical health and it can lead to all kinds of problems and contribute to um, disability in older age. So those human connections and having things to do, meaningful things to do, is incredibly important for our health and not just for avoiding boredom.

Speaker C: Well, and I don't know your own personal situation, but the data indicates, I know I've experienced it. When I left corporate world to start my own company, my social network decreased by over 50% because so much of what we do in work today and those interactions with people are tied to our uh, work. So when you step away from it, if you choose to say, I'm going to Totally stop working. You need to understand that your interactions with people are going to drop significantly. And I have neighbors around me who are retired. I have some who I'm like, wow, they live very active lives. But there are others of my neighbors where I literally watch the garbage can every Wednesday to see that it's out as proof of life. Because you don't see them hardly at all.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And that's, that's not. Well, you know, that's, that's the, I guess in some cases, perhaps the choice. In some cases it's because, as you said, they have not, uh, planned for something different. So, David, when you say time optimization, what does that word optimization mean to you?

Speaker C: Well, because we use time management so frequently, I really, I was like, I was, I'm bothered by that phrase, uh, just be transparent. And the reason why I'm bothered by it is manage usually means you're reactive, doesn't mean that you're not going to use that time well. But typically it means people react to what they do. So I'm going to manage to a particular outcome. And when I find, when I work with people, when they use time management, uh, they have a last in, first out mentality. Something comes at them and they're like, oh, I've got to fix this, gotta put out this fire. They might do it really well. But then you've got all these other things that you had planned to do that were important. They're still there. And so now you have to figure out, how do I reallocate my time? And so I wanted to flip the script with optimization and really tie it to being proactive, going out and trying to anticipate to some level. I do two weeks, for me personally, I plan out two weeks in detail, knowing it's going to change. But the very act of preparing for what you think your future looks like allows you then, when things come your way, to be in a better position to figure out what to do with it. Do I need to do it immediately or can I tie it later on to what I want to do?

Speaker B: So that makes me think, you know, right away of, you know, a Kanban board, uh, in a manufacturing facility, in an office, you know, where you have estimated what you're going to be spending time on. And then, as you said, things come up, you know, machine bakes, breaks, somebody's out sick, you know, some kind of crisis arises that you have to manage and then, you know, what you have to move and what is really important to stay. But when you mentioned, like, you know, the last in, first out. Then the other thing is really first in, first out. Right. That's the way that we want to run things.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: So that we don't end up with these piles of things that didn't get done. And I think they kind of weigh down on us. You know, that sense of, you know, I never did get to writing that thank you note or you know, calling that person that I intended to call because. Because these other things arose. Yeah. So. So how do. When, uh, you, when you're working with people, you know, the other thing that optimization means to me is, is that you're getting value out of the time. Right, Right.

Speaker C: So yes, very much.

Speaker B: It's optimized for me, may not be optimized for you or may not be optimized for somebody else, but it is. So, so is there also a step of, of, um, of really starting to investigate what really is of value to me? What, what are the things that I, I personally value?

Speaker C: Yeah, that's a great transition and lead in and ultimately what I want people to do, and this is regardless of your age, but it is very important if you're going to, if you're going to choose not to work, if you head into retirement, is what is my purpose in life. And so that's the defining thing. I take them through an exercise. Just like companies have vision and mission statements. You can have your own vision, mission, purpose, whatever you want to call it, but what is your guiding principles, your North Star, so to speak, of something that you're going to derive value in your life based upon how you use your time. And this is where many people choose not to stop working in some form or fashion when they go into retirement, because that's allowing them to express some purpose somewhere. And so I don't discourage people who want to continue to work, but at the same time define for yourself the ultimate purpose that may work may be a component, but it's more broadly than that. So then that's where you get to use that lens by which you then figure out how and why you want to use your time.

Speaker B: And do you find that some people, as they do that exercise, they find that they want to work for the very reasons that you talked about is because that's where the human connection comes from. That's where their time structure comes from. And they just can't fathom a life without those things or where they have to find another way to find those things as opposed to. I know I really love, I m. Love my job in sales or engineering or Whatever it is. Because I'm fascinated with the topic.

Speaker C: Yeah. And that's where I try to tell people, great. So if you're kind of like, man, I really, really like this. But then I ask them to stop and say, particularly if they have a spouse or partner, what does that mean to your spouse or partner? Because a lot of times I work with couples, um, together in planning career, and they, uh, could be married for decades, and they've not discussed how this is going to play out in their personal lives. And so I try to say to them, great, if you want to work, but you need to be in concert with your spouse or partner to say, are they okay with you working? Did they have expectations that you were going to do certain things together? So to me, instead of treating it as an either or, try to find the maximum amount of flexibility in your life. So if you want to work some, great. But don't discount the wonderful opportunities that you can do with your spouse or partner in that timeframe if that's what you want to do.

Speaker B: So that's such a great point. I mean, that really is, because I think that's the other thing that happens in the work life is work life is done, for the most part, without your spouse or partner. Right. Unless you're in business with them. And so, uh, you do get used to. Well, I'm going to make this decision. We'll discuss what's the impact on our financial life or where we're going to live or whatever. But that really does makes me think it's another concept we talk a lot about in Lean. And I hate to use this word for your life partner, but, uh, it's also about customer expectations, right?

Speaker C: Very much so, yes.

Speaker B: What, yeah. What does this person. Yeah. What do they expect and what are they hoping for? And. And if you can do. If you can do what you're both hoping for, then that's going to make a much richer and happier, um, relationship.

Speaker C: Well, and if you consider today the con, the workforce is going to continue to age. I mean, right now it's 10,000 people a day. It's soon to be 12,000 people a day are hitting 65 years of age. So what the challenge is, uh, companies in business are not really ready for an aging workforce, which puts people who are like, well, I would like to not do at the rate I'm doing right now, puts people getting closer to retirement age in a wonderful position to negotiate unique employment structures that fits their life. So I encourage my clients, particularly if they sense they can do it is to begin to lay the groundwork with their employer that says, I'm seeing retirement on the horizon, but I don't want to step out totally. What can we look at for an arrangement that lets me bring value, but gives me flexibility in order to go off to do my personal stuff, but then plug in when you need me to do important work for the company?

Speaker B: Which is also something that people need at other stages in their life. Right, David? I mean, there are people, you know, perhaps with young families or, uh, you know, who. An aging parent, you know, who need more flexible arrangements. I mean, this is certainly something that people, I think, of many generations want, but I think you're right. I think companies are still having a hard time figuring out how I do this because. Because it feels like now you. You're going to have to specialize in arrangement for everybody. And how do you know what's fair? And then for managers, then, um, you know, managing work schedules and making sure there's coverage that becomes harder. But I don't, I don't, you know, it's not impossible. It's just we have to think differently about it. Yeah.

Speaker C: And they'll. We'll adapt according. Businesses will adapt, uh, to it. The other thing you, you mentioned about this idea of work and life is I am not a fan of the term also work life balance, because I can't define my life into eight hours of sleep and then eight hours of work and eight hours of play. Life is just not that compartmentalized. So I try to tell people, think about going back to flexibility. Think about work life flexibility, where you're developing relationship capital in both the professional and the personal side of life. Personal side of life, you're managing expectations to say to your family, hey, I've got to spend more time at work for a period of time because there's a major project due or something to that effect. And then work, you're building that relationship capital that says, I'm working real hard, I'm doing what I need to do for the simple fact of. And it worked with me. When I was still in corporate life, I had to go take care of an aging, dying mom with my siblings. And they were very, very accommodating. I still worked, but I was able to relocate back to Florida at that point and be able to spend time with my mom in the last six weeks of her life. They were very accommodating because I had built up the relationship capital at work as a result.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's really, really helpful when that can happen. Yeah. And, uh, then that makes us think so as we're, you know, as we're thinking about for those of us who are working with companies and working with leaders and managers, and we talk about, you know, creating that environment where people really, truly can grow and develop. When you had that opportunity then, David, to do that for your mom and to be with your mom and have those precious weeks with her, then how did you feel about the company? What. What did that do to your engagement?

Speaker C: You know, it. It showed me. As a matter of fact, it. I left my. That was my last job before I started my business. And I was really. I was really appreciative. I still. I'm their fan. I still send customers or clients to them if I think it's appropriate. For me, it was a matter of these people empathize and understand. It also made me a better manager and leader to my team as well. To ensure, if I know that the owners of the company are giving me this flexibility, I need to pass that on, understanding what do I have to do to deliver what I'm supposed to deliver. But how can I be more flexible with my people if that's the case and they have a need?

Speaker B: Yeah. And I think that there is a challenge there for us to think about that. As people who are practicing Lean and looking for standardization, you know, we want things to be. It's not just. And in some cases, it's not just what you deliver, but it's how you deliver it, because the process for delivery is what builds the quality in at the end. Right. So that is going to require more creativity, both on um, the side of the managers and the sides of the people who are doing the work to think about how can I really make sure I'm still capturing the important parts of the process that build the quality in at the end, whether it's a sale that you're delivering or something else. Right. And then, actually, I think I'm thinking about this, David, then that helps you really also identify what are the really important things that need to be done and, um, what are the things that perhaps got built into the process that you actually don't need to do. I think it's a lot to learn from that.

Speaker C: Well, and what I love about Lean and applying it to time optimization is you deliver a quality product, service, whatever it is, to your client base. They have no idea what happened behind the scenes to deliver it. They just want that delivered product quality or service. And when I led and trained salespeople, and there would be a breakdown in, oh, My gosh, we had to scramble. People worked overtime to try to deliver the product and they would be all mad and frustrated and I would say, but the client didn't know anything different, so don't wallow in that. And that's the same thing in life. It's not going to be perfect behind the scenes. You're going to be figuring everything out. But if you deliver yourself a, uh, time optimized or time efficient life over time, then that's great. You get to live and enjoy the experiences while you refine the process behind the scenes to make it as efficient as possible.

Speaker B: Right? Yeah. And it's actually good. Right. If something breaks, then we can improve it. If it works too well, sometimes the lean leader will actually go in and break it just to create that optimization.

Speaker C: Uh, and that's one of the things that I appreciate about the lean process is and I try to tell people it's this continuous search for perfection. You know, you're never going to attain it.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: But the journey is so worth it because you learn more about yourself, you learn more about others. And that's the same thing when you live a post career life is don't settle, but constantly try to figure out if you find you're in a rut. And one of the exercises I try to take people through and it's very difficult is plan me, uh, a typical retirement week. And what happens is they plan out Monday and then they either make a Groundhog's day or they copy and paste it to every other day. And then I say, I'll hand it back to them and I'll say, nope, not enough diversity in there. You need to think about. Doesn't mean that this is going to be your life every week. But if you can't put in enough diverse things for a typical life in retirement, then maybe work needs to be part of it for a while because that brings you that diversity through interactions with others in the structure. But you've got to be able to figure out how you're going to use that time.

Speaker B: Wow, that sounds really scary, David. I mean you're saying to people who have had structure, you know, we've got the Monday meeting and we've got the Wednesday meeting and we've got the Friday afternoon afternoon week wrap up. And we have, you know, we have the annual meeting and you know, somebody, somebody tells me where to go or I tell somebody else where to go and now you're saying to them actually don't do that. Is that what I hear you saying? Don't Put that structure, that immediate structure back, uh, into your life just because that's what you're used to and that's what you're comfortable with. So, so what are you saying?

Speaker C: Like, like, I think what I'm, um, trying to say is if you're going to transition into cold turkey retirement cold turkey, you're not going to be able to structure your life the way it was in corporate life because there aren't those expectations there. But you've got to find some type of new structure. And actually it's not my idea, but I have, I have co opted it. Someone has talked about taking a gap year, uh, like college students take or high school students take a gap year in the earlier part of their lives. You take a gap year and say, okay, I'm going to go into retirement and I'm just going to try to figure out what life is like. But that's your purpose for that time frame. So it's not just, I'm going to go cold turkey, wake up one day and say, okay, what is life going to bring me? I don't want you to be reactive, but you take time to say, well, what does that look like? And in some cases you might want to tell a prospective, your current employer, I'm going to go try this gap year. If I come back a year from later, uh, a year later, I know I can't do what I'm doing now. Um, but maybe I can do something different. And there was a recent study, it may have been pew. That like 60% of people headed into retirement are willing to do some form of their work knowing that they're going to take less money. And I think that's where employers are a little afraid because they're kind of like, well, I'm not going to pay him, um, her or her what I'm paying them for half time or three quarters time. Well, guess what? The person on the other end willing and understands if they can be plugged in, in some way that their compensation structure is going to have to change.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And particularly as you said, if they prepared for it financially, it's not a, it wouldn't be an issue. Wow. Yeah, I love that idea. Uh, because I think that is also then something I remember when I was first thinking about what was going to be next and someone said to me, bella, whatever you do, don't sign up to do the first annual anything. So, Right. Don't get, don't immediately get yourself into now, this is what I have to do. And uh, I think you Know, you're kind of saying the same thing is there's a world out there that, that you have probably not been as aware of inside that corporate structure. Once you step outside, there are a whole bunch of people who don't care what the quarter close was for your company. Right. They have never heard of it. Right. They, they have no idea. They have totally, completely different other concerns and lives. And you get outside and it, it's like, it can be like drinking from a firehouse hose. And I, I can certainly see people saying, well, I'm going to kind of retreat from that, um, and get away from that. And I love that idea of saying, all right, let, let me go and take that gap here. Let me have that purpose of discovering what is next. And as you said, then maybe that includes some of the work that you did previously.

Speaker C: Right. And I recent, uh, earlier this year, one of our neighbors, I think, uh, I think it was actually 4th of July, set up on their driveway, you know, some, uh, tents and stuff, and we had a neighborhood gathering and my wife and I ended up being, we were the only working people there. And it was interesting to me because no one asks you what you do for a living. They want to know what you're doing. And so that's where I try to challenge people pre retirement. Get out of the mindset. When you're introduced to somebody, don't ask them what they do for a living, ask them what motivates them for a living and then you can tell them what motivates you for a living because it gets you out of the quote, corporate mindset, the uh, work mindset, and allows you to think more broadly. And so that may help you then decide the steps you want to take for the life you want to live in retirement. But you know, we, it's so easy for us to say, hey, what do you do for a living? Well, no one cared what my wife and I did for a living. When they're not mean, they have wonderful neighbors, they weren't being mean. It's just kind of like that's not part of their life anymore.

Speaker B: Right, right. So what kind of things were they interested in? Where you had traveled, what you, what your family was like, what are the kinds of things that they were, they were, uh, looking to hear.

Speaker C: So you travel is one family, obviously, kids, grandkids, discussing what's going on in their lives, uh, things that they're doing. Some, some are doing part time or contract work, but that wasn't, it was more like, yeah, I'm working with Such and such. And then a lot revolved around, which was an eye opening for us, particularly the older groups as we listen in on the conversation, was helpful a lot around health discussions. And so it affirmed to me when I work with clients, I'm like, do not wait to do the things that you want to do that are important to you. Get them done now, because you're actually going to have phases you're going to have to live through in retirement and the latter part of your life. In each one of those phases, the amount of time you're going to spend on personal care naturally increases. So you need to be prepared for that.

Speaker B: And I think that that is also really important because, uh, in the United States at least we have this focus on youth and health and ability. And we're all going to, you know, we're all going to be able to do this. We're going to run the marathon or uh, do the round the world trip. But realistically that's not the case for everyone for their whole life. And I do appreciate what you're saying there, that it's, you know, I think part of our planning has to be, we're not going to be here forever. And before we leave, we know our bodies will start to fail us. Uh, so they may start to fail us. And let's prepare for that. And so I hear kind of part of that time optimization is, well, let's optimize the time when we are healthy and we are able to, to do these things and uh, create some memories for ourselves.

Speaker C: Which is why I challenge those who say, I want to work until I die. And I get a lot of that. I'm going to work until the day I die. And I'm like, great. Statistically speaking, you're not going to, because at some point, cognitively or physically, you're not going to be able to operate at the level that you are. Warren Buffett might be a, an exception to that rule. But for most people, statistically, at some point the body or the mind catches up and they have to adjust. And so that's where I try to challenge and say, great, if you're deriving value out of work, but what happens today if you can't do that work? So put yourself in the shoes it's taken away from you. How are you going to then handle that? And it doesn't mean you have to craft a whole lifestyle strategy, but you need to think differently about how am I going to derive work. And part of that could be in the case of both my mom and Then my wife's grandfather, the last couple years of their life, they wrote their life stories down. And so they have now transferred that to generations. And my oldest son has actually taken the unofficial mantle of being the keeper of the family history because he's been fascinated that two separate people on the side of the family have done this. And my wife and I are under pressure by our children to make sure we do the same at some point.

Speaker B: And I just want to share with the listeners. My son actually had a suggestion for, uh, my husband and myself. He said, if you don't want to write it down, it's easy now to record it. And very much so, you can sit down and do a zoom interview just like this, or a series of zoom interviews and ask those, those questions or tell those stories that you perhaps never had a chance to tell your, um, your children or your nieces and nephews or the people who, um, are important in their family. You want to press that on. And what a wonderful way. Again, when you think about time optimization, we think about, you know, I immediately think of, we know I've got to be productive, but this is, this is a productivity of sharing, as you said, stories and histories and things that have, there are of value, maybe not a financial value, but of, of family value. And, um, that's wonderful, David.

Speaker C: Well, and it's actually led to me to be a little frustrated, and I'm going to say politicians, but I'm not trying to be political. But if you look at our politicians today, particularly in Washington D.C. across party ideology, everyone is a lot older and they stay, they stay in position. And I'm not about ageism. Um, I'm like, work for as long as you have. But I look at some that are there right now, and I say, wouldn't it be beneficial for you to maybe step back a little bit? You can still be immensely productive and help transfer this wonderful knowledge you have to the next generations to prepare them to have great public service to serve the rest of their communities. Why do you need to hang on for the rest of your life in this position when you can use your wonderful skills and opportunities to share with others?

Speaker B: That is terrific advice, and I can think of a lot of people who should be taking that advice. David, as you said, um, it's irrespective of party.

Speaker C: Uh, correct.

Speaker B: Yeah. And it's actually, to me, it's fascinating that we see that in our legislatures and our administrative, you know, executive branches of government. But on the other hand, in the, in corporate life, there is, you know, you Talk about people, you know, working up to 65 or beyond 65. But in corporate life, there is also this, uh, and this, you know, part of my story, kind of this pushing out of the older people, you know, so you get to a certain point and, you know, for some reason, you know, the job's not there anymore. You know, I don't want. I don't want to go into that. So it's really, I think that there's a real diversity across at least American culture about. Around when you are old or you are too old to, you know, to be doing a certain kind of work. I mean, if you're flying a jet plane, I think that's different from being an office manager or, uh, you know, being a consultant or, you know, some of the, some of the other things that, that people do. But, yeah, that's. That's probably a whole other podcast.

Speaker C: Yeah, and I would agree with that, though. Companies are going to have to adapt and change to that. And, you know, a lot of times it's under the guise of cost cutting that these things happen. And I think that's when employers, if they were transparent and aware, that says to maybe some of their older workers, who they're paying a premium for, to say, hey, listen, here's our situation. Can we renegotiate what we are paying you for? Instead of saying, okay, well, I'll just move them out, bring in somebody younger who I can pay less. If, if you just. I think if both sides were a little bit more transparent, I think they're gonna. This will get figured out in some sense, because again, companies are going to need older workers just from a sheer number standpoint.

Speaker B: Right? Yeah, but, yeah, because, yeah, employment is very tight right now. And there is, you know, there's definitely a need for, for people with skills and people with experience and, and that, you know, the experience that the older worker brings can be technical experience. And, you know, people kind of disparage the technical experience of some older workers. But that knowledge of how do we all get along in the workplace, Right. How do we lead? Those are things that are developed over time. And you could definitely benefit from having a variety of people in your organization with all kinds of skills who can learn from each other. Um, so, yeah, I love. Go ahead.

Speaker C: I was just going to say. So it's interesting because, you know, I don't want to be generational here and disparage previous generations or ones, uh, that are coming up. It's. But my kids actually inspired me. My kids are living totally different lives in their 20s than I lived in my 20s. Because in my 20s, I'm 60 years old. It was about, boom, I go to work, start a family, I save, and then I retire. Well, my children have done more in their 20s than I ever did. I had one, I have one who hiked the Appalachian Trail. I've had another who spent two summers in Alaska, exploring Alaska. And they inspired me to say, well, why am I waiting for this figurative time in my life to then explore and do all this stuff? And so, going back to employers, employers have to understand that younger workers are thinking totally different and they have a different set of priorities. And actually, I respect and like a lot of what their priorities are. And so you've got this, this inner mix of older workers who are thinking about more flexibility potentially in their life, but then you have the younger generations who already are living it. So employers are going to have to figure out this dynamic. And that's where I think they need to embrace older workers who want to still stay engaged but want flexibility in their life.

Speaker B: David, tell us again about your book. You just mentioned it once. I want to just hear a little bit more about it.

Speaker C: Well, thank you. So the Time Optimized life actually came about. So as I started my business, I have a baseline assessment that I use with people called the Time management Analysis. It helps build the foundation. And after doing, uh, hundreds of those, I really saw some patterns that were occurring in people's lives. And I'm like, I think, think I can put together something here. So the time Optimized life is a result of that. As we, as I mentioned, I want to make people embrace time, productivity. But what I also say in this book, it's not a, uh, you follow these 10 steps and your life is magically going to change because we're all unique. And so the book seeks to help people identify their strengths, strengthen those even more, find their opportunities, and hone those to get better from an incremental approach. That is, small changes in behavior over time can lead to a lot of time improvement and greater quality.

Speaker B: Time that's so lean. Make those small changes. Learn. Experiment with them. Learn them. See if you can build a habit. Yeah. Yes.

Speaker C: And that was influenced again by my work, uh, with an employer who adopted Lean manufacturing. And what I loved about what they did is they said, dave, you don't need to be the subject matter expert on this. Thank you. Because it's pretty in depth. But I was able to use it as a competitive advantage when I went out and sold the products that they represented. Because it's kind of. Let me tell you a little bit about how we get to the marketplace on that. It was a wonderful story to tell in that. And I'm like, well, why can't I use those same principles in my life?

Speaker B: Oh, very smart. Good for you. That's great. That's great. So, so, David Buck, if people want to talk to you more, get some advice from you, what's the best way to find you?

Speaker C: Well, first of all, Bella, thank you so much again for this. This has been. I've had a lot of fun. Simply, if you'd like to go to my website@infinitylifestyledesign.com again, infinitylifestyledesign.Com you can go one of three ways. One, you can go download chapter one of my book and just kind of say, let me. Let me see what this optimization thing is about. And if you like it, it's available online, uh, all major online retailers. But then also give you an opportunity, if you want to take two assessments. So if you scroll further down, the first one's the time management analysis, which I just mentioned, you can take that, get a summary assessment. But then if you're getting close to retirement and you want to test yourself on your time skills in retirement, I have the retirement time analysis again, you're free to take that and you'll get a free summary report.

Speaker B: Wow, that's great. That's a lot of free stuff. Thanks.

Speaker C: My pleasures.

Speaker B: So the question that I ask everyone, and I think it's such a pertinent question, since we've been talking about kind of the, uh, transitions, you know, transitions that sort of late and career. What is your one piece of advice for a young person starting out?

Speaker C: I would say embrace the word patience. I found early on in life that I was too, um, I'm still in some cases too impatient. But if it's important, if it's complex, if it is meaningful, it's always going to take longer than you anticipate. So be patient, because in that patience, you'll learn, you'll grow, and I think you'll even appreciate when you get to the outcome that you had because you knew I had to get through it and be strong. So just be patient.

Speaker B: What wonderful advice. David Buck, thank you so much for traveling with me to the edges of Lean.

Speaker C: It's been my pleasure, Bella. Thank you.

Speaker A: This is Bella and Claire and I would like to thank David Buck for joining me at the edges of Lean. What did you learn from this conversation? What ideas did it spark?

Speaker B: We would love to hear from you.

Speaker A: Find David on LinkedIn and at affinitylifestyledesign.com TMA where you can take David's time management analysis. His book is the Time Optimized Life. Please find me on or@leanforhumans.com hey, subscribe to the Ages of Lean.

Speaker B: There's a lot to learn.

Speaker A: Check out all the great lean content@leancommunicators.com where you will receive informative new content weekly. The Agents of Lean is written and produced by Bella Engelberg, with support from Podcast, Inc. This is a Lean for Humans production.