The coupon deal that revealed retail media's power with David Glaza

Speaker A: If you build a good experience and you got a great brand, people want to spend time with you. And so you just need to find ways to invite them in. And so if you do that, well, there's no real limit to how much you can cultivate that shopper experience.

Speaker B: Hello, fellow insight seekers. I'm your host, Molly, and welcome to the Curiosity Current. We're so glad to have you here.

Speaker C: And I'm your host, Stephanie. We're here to dive into the fast moving waters of market research where curiosity isn't just encouraged, it's each episode.

Speaker B: We'll explore what's shaping the world of consumer behavior. From fresh trends and new tech to the stories behind the data, from bold

Speaker C: innovations to the human quirks that move markets, we'll explore how curiosity fuels smarter research and sharper insights.

Speaker B: So whether you're deep into the data or just here for the fun of

Speaker C: discovery, grab your life vest and join us as we ride the Curiosity Current. Today on the Curiosity Current, we are joined by David Glaza, founder and CEO of Digits Agency.

Speaker B: David has spent years at the center of retail media's evolution, from helping launch Target Cartwheel, which is now Target Circle, to building retail media strategies for brands, grocers and retail networks across the country.

Speaker C: What makes David's perspective especially interesting is that he understands both sides of the equation. He comes from a merchant background, but also deeply understands media loyalty, e comm and personalization.

Speaker B: So today we're digging into the rapid rise of retail media, how loyalty and first party data are, uh, reshaping commerce, and what brands still misunderstand about retail media performance.

Speaker C: David, welcome to the show.

Speaker A: Thanks for having me. It's good to be here.

Speaker C: It's good to have you. So, you know, David, you've worked across merchandising, loyalty, e commerce and retail media during a period when it feels like all of these worlds started converging. So I'm curious, you know, to kick us off here. When you look back, when did you first realize that retail media was becoming something a lot bigger than just another ad channel?

Speaker A: Yeah, for me, I mean, I got my start in retail as a merchant, so we were always trying to, you know, drive more units, drive more sales, anything we could do to kind of see that business go up. And I consistently look back to one of my days when I was on Target's Cartwheel team, which again, was a coupon program that we had driven to 40 million shoppers on the app. And there was, you know, probably within our first year or two, there was one day where we ran a deal for shoes. Shoes and boots, whatnot. Boots for the family, uh, was the name of the deal. And within like two hours, I was getting phone calls from like, our VP saying, like, stop the deal, you're selling too many shoes. Right. Like, we, this is more than we, we thought. And so we. I tell that story because I think it was one of the first times where my team was like, oh, holy cow. Like, all we're doing is putting these little deals in an app on people's iPhones and they're running out to the stores and buying shoes. And, like, we're able to influence this customer purchase journey, like, within hours, to a point that our merchants were like, oh, like, we didn't plan for this and we're starting to get scared. Right. And so I'd say earlier we broke a couple of eggs, if you want to think of it that way, because it was just a growing thing. But I would say we knew we were onto something. And again, this is years ago. Nobody called it retail media, but like, being able to use your retailer data to talk to somebody on a digital form to then influence their physical purchase, it was retail media. We just didn't know that at the time.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: But yeah, that's when it all first came together for me and, uh, probably kicked me on this new career journey.

Speaker B: I think that's so funny. Oops. I did my job way too well.

Speaker A: Well, you know, retailers, everything's planned out, right? Like, you know, exactly. And yes, you want to sell more, but you don't wanna sell more too quickly because it takes a long time to go get more. And so you'd rather be kind of right to plan or a little bit more than plan. But yeah, yeah, job's too well done.

Speaker B: So, yeah, great adjustment needed in the future. Well, we know that retail media has exploded over the last few years given a lot of these different types of success stories. And a lot of it has changed in many ways as it's evolved. But I find that even marketers still struggle to define what it actually is. So from your perspective, what is it and what has changed in this time period that has turned retailers into a, uh, media business?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's, you know, broadly speaking, really just an evolution of digital channels. You know, as retail went online, that retailer communication went online. Right. So brands have always spent money with retailers. Historically, that's like, to buy shelf space, slotting fees, end cap fees, all this money to buy space in the weekly ad, which, you know, was sort of, uh, the today's equivalent of media. And really just over the last 10, 15 years it switched to digital tactics. I think someone like Amazon obviously created it, if you will, where you know, their equivalent of in store slotting fee was basically an ad. Like you want to be on the keyword page, you better pay for it. Right. Just like somebody at Target in my day as a merchant said you want to show up on the first four foot section. Well, it's X thousand bucks per planogram. So it's really the same thing just in a different way. But with your question on um, how to define it, I would say the avenues that brands have to buy just sort of keep changing. Right. Like first it was paid search, then it was email placements, now it's keyword placements, now it's on site, it's off site, it's social. Like the amount of things that you can do now has just grown exponentially. That I think it drives brands a little crazy.

Speaker B: Well yeah, it's also figuring out you have to know even more about your customer to figure out exactly where they are and what's going to convince them because their lives are saturated with so many different things.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's hard to break free.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Like to uh, you know, essentially if you're talking retail media, the job is to talk to Walmart customers or Target customers and where are they shopping, how are they learning about products, how are they planning Saturday's trip and just really trying to, you know, infiltrate your brand in those moments so that when they're ready to actually make that decision, then they pick your brand. And so either talking to them literally in the moment, which is like on shelf, or you're talking to them before the moment.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: But yeah, that's essentially what retail media is. Right. How it comes to life I think is kind of constantly changing. But yeah, those communications is sort of what we're trying to do.

Speaker C: You know, you mentioned this a little bit already, but you helped build Target Cartwheel, which eventually became Target Circle. What did that specific experience teach you about the relationship between loyalty and personalization and customer behavior?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think for us what it taught me about all of it really was like Target had a great brand. Right. And uh, what was interesting is when we were pitching the ideas of Cartwheel, we were sort of building it and talking internally into brands is people were a little bit concerned that shoppers wouldn't want to use it. Like shoppers wouldn't want to engage with it, spend their time. And uh, so I think what really showed me is if you Build a good experience, and you got a great brand, people want to spend time with you. And so you just need to find ways to invent them, invite them in. And so if you do that, well, you know, there's no real limit to how much you can cultivate that shopper experience. So what I mean by that is people would say, like, who would want to sort through 500 coupons and find something to shop at Target? You're like, well, good question. But if we do it right, 40 million people do, and they're literally pulling into the parking lot, sitting in their car for 10 minutes, looking at deals, deciding what they want to buy, and then walking in store. And I think if we would have asked leaders at Target before it launched, they'd be like, that's never going to work, right? Like, who? People don't want to sit and stare at their phones, like, but yet people loved it, and they loved looking at it and finding ways to discover products kind of in that manner.

Speaker C: I'm curious, like, was how you conceptualized it, how it ended up being, or did consumer behavior end up shaping it and making it a lot different than you originally sort of thought it would be?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think, you know, my role was a lot on the coupon development side. Like, how are we going to work with individual brands and media and dollars?

Speaker C: Gotcha.

Speaker A: Uh, on the UX side, to answer your question, I think we thought it would be a little bit more social. Meaning, you know, Facebook was actually a partner with us when we launched it, and all of the coupons tied into the Facebook social graph. So if you logged in, you actually logged in using your Facebook icon, and it would automatically pull in all your friends. And so it would say, Dave just saved 10% on milk at, uh, Target today. Right. And you would have, like, an activity feed or around it, which was actually pretty cool. It was like a Facebook news feed, basically in the app. And we thought that that would be a way to sort of drive discovery. Right. If I see my friends are all saving on, you know, pickles or whatever, right? Like. Like, oh, well, like, if they like them, um, I should like it, and I might want to do that too. So I think there was a lot of things right about that, right? As far as that, the social connection about products and discovery. But what people didn't really care for was the actual, like, feed, right? Like, I don't care what coupons you clipped. Right. But what was good was the coupons you clipped probably does influence the coupons I want to see. So how do we, uh, still use the data, but it just shows up in a different way.

Speaker C: Totally. Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker B: That's so fascinating because there's probably a closer link side by side between retail media and how it actually ties to sales outcomes. A lot of these things through the, through the coupons as well. So talk us through that process. Why have this, has this type of ad spend become really, really attractive to brands?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's because it is tied to the sale. So what is awesome about retail media and with new digital tools over the last decade or so is what we call first party audiences. So whether you're logged into a website like you would be on Amazon or a membership on Costco or Target, Circle is most retailers know who you are. You know, they know your name, they know your credit card number, you have an email address, whatever personal identifier you have in there because of that, then we can use that to go find you out on the open web. And we know that you actually see an ad. We can influence who sees the ads based on what you're shopping at retail and build all those audiences ahead of time. And then what was the real unlock a couple years ago was we can actually follow you to, in store to make your purchase. So today, 75% of Omni, um, channel retailers purchases are still done, you know, with a cart through a register physically. But we know you saw the ad on, on Facebook two days ago or maybe a weather app two days ago. And so then, um, we can go back to the brand and say, hey, craft, you know, you invested a million dollars in this ad campaign, you got 5 million of sales out of it and they're no longer wondering.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Real data brands love to optimize against data. So if you give it to them sometimes, even if it's bad results.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: They'll still, they're happy they saw it. They're like, okay, that's bad. But I know that I can measure myself. So I'm going to do it again, but I'll do it better this time.

Speaker C: Yeah. Optimize. Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. So it's really developed, I'd say a feedback loop for the brands that they crave. That's been really helping drive retail media.

Speaker B: Yeah. Because that, that black box of advertising to actual sales is something that marketers are always trying to figure out. And if there's, unless it's a case like this, that line is not linear. You don't know if people saw, uh, you could say, oh, there's 1.5 million impressions on your billboard, but Actually, how that translates to sales is nebulous.

Speaker A: Yeah, you'll see. Uh, I mean, that envelope is continually being pushed now. And so, you know, new retail media channels trying to find ways to measure two examples, one being, you know, in store audio. So there's a lot of convenience stores that are playing, you know, the average person's only in a convenience store for like a minute or something. It's pretty short. You walk in, you buy something, you're out. And so they have audio ads, and so now they will actually measure sales by the minute. And they have some sort of attribution that's like, all right, well, within three minutes after the ad that played on the audio, you know, sales were up, uh, you know, units per minute. You want to think of it that way. And then they'll attribute sales.

Speaker B: Crazy, right?

Speaker C: Yeah, which.

Speaker A: That's pretty cool. And then the other thing that rolled out is Amazon just announced leakage reporting for first party as well. So, you know, Amazon's the biggest player in the game. They know that you're trying to drive business to Amazon. But I may see an Amazon ad and buy it at Walmart. Right. And so they, they have data reporting that now says, okay, let's say you spent a million bucks, 5 million of sales at Amazon, maybe 1 million of sales at Walmart, and a half million at Target or whatnot. So they're aiming to capture that full spend and so you get better results. Right. They're not just taking credit for the people that are buying it with them, but you might have spurred sales. Lots of other retailers, too.

Speaker C: That's fascinating.

Speaker A: Yeah. So everybody's. They're all. To your point, the brands are hungry for that data. So every new channel that's rolling out is being tasked to figure out, well, how do you measure this one?

Speaker C: Yeah, it seems like there's a lot of excitement, I mean, to your point, uh, around retail media networks, but it's also clear that there's like, a lot of fragmentation. What kinds of challenges are brands running into as more retailers launch their own media ecosystems?

Speaker A: Yeah, this is one of the brands probably biggest, biggest bogeys, if you will, in this space. So if you go to conferences, there's sort of big brands continuing to struggle, I think, just how to manage this. And to me, there, there's two things that they'll talk about. One, first is just fragmentation of retailers. And I'll have to put our hands up that digits is part of the problem here for them in the idea, but hopefully part of the solution too. That digits you know, we are a leading agency to help regional grocers build out their retail media networks. And well, for brands it'd be so much easier if they only worked with Walmart, Walmart and Target. They're like, great, we'll just work with one and, but really that's not how it works. Right. Like there's all these regional grocers, there's all these stores out there that sell a ton of their products and especially in certain markets are really popular and shopped by millions of shoppers. And so it's on people like us. And I think the grocers to build better tools and better like APIs and pipes and technology integrations to make it easier for brands because today they want to sort of sit at headquarters and pull all the strings and it's, it's hard for them to pull all those strings and touch all the RMNs at this point. So.

Speaker B: And you touched on this too. But the digital coupons, the loyalty programs, the personalization, the, the feed ads that people are getting in their social media, that's highly targeted media placements, they all overlap heavily into one experience. So what separates a good retail media strategy that genuinely improves the customer experience instead of one that just feels very promotional?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think it all starts with the data and tech tools that access it. When we first start working with certain grocers, especially newer ones, not all their data is in the same spot. And so that is something they need to get cleaned up. Uh, I think second is a marketer with a strong eye. And what I mean is like a brand marketer that actually works for the retailers and they've gotta, they've gotta stick to their guns, I think a little bit as far as how these ads supposed to look, because they should look and feel and work well along with the retailer. Sometimes you'll have people in my seat that are like, we can sell more ads.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: We can sell more ads. And they gotta look what the brand wants to look like. And so we're always pushing from that end.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And ah, you know, we're a good team, will work together, I'd say on that and the experience will still look good. And what I mean by that sort of with the last point is there are some even omnichannel websites where I know if I go on and I search. I, uh, did this the other day. I was looking to get like craft beer, so I searched craft beer and I had nothing but three pages of like macro, basically Miller Light, Bud Light, whatnot. Because they're the ones to get an ad. So it's basically like three full scrolls of. Not craft beer, right?

Speaker C: What beer? Not the thing that you were looking for.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it was beer, but it was obviously not craft beer. Local. Right. And so I think, you know, that for me was a poor experience, especially being the industry. I'm, um, Like, I know these are ads. These are, this is not what I'm looking for. Right. Like, why can't you just take me to what I want? But I think if the ads are done in a right way, like offering those ad slots to other craft beer places, then that's done really well. Right. And so I think it's not necessarily always about having the ads. I think it's, are you able to serve it in a relevant way? Are you getting content from enough brands that you could be relevant? You're not having to force it. And then making the ad units exciting and fit. Sort of the style guide, sort of

Speaker C: balancing everybody's priorities who are in the mix. Right. Like the consumer, the brand, the retailer.

Speaker A: Yeah. And it's not easy.

Speaker C: Oh, it doesn't sound easy.

Speaker A: No. And you have competing priorities. And so it's not easy. But, you know, uh, at least it's journeys. We've been down before. And so those are things we can, you know, talk partners through and try to help them figure it out.

Speaker C: Makes a lot of sense. Well, David, we're going to take you into a segment that we typically kind of close with, where we like to ask our guests, and we typically ask it about the field of market research. But when we have folks on like you who are from slightly different industries, we're going to ask you in your own industry, but what is one trend or practice? And I guess I'll say in marketing that you would like to see stop. And what is one thing that you would like to see more of?

Speaker A: I think kind of to market research, I, uh, guess, but maybe more research within, I guess like our clients or even your service. Client service or whatnot is I have founded difficult to be innovative with market research in a way. And this is probably you. Maybe we're not working with the right people. You guys probably be great.

Speaker C: But I mean.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. What I more mean by that is, uh, I, I, in my career, I find it hard to ask our clients or customers what they want and listen to their words and have it be innovative because it's, they don't always know what they want. And even I say our perfect clients, like at, uh, digits, like, we'll ask them, how do you how can we help you better do retail media. And typically their answers are just so incremental, meaning like, oh, fix this spreadsheet, or email me on Monday mornings instead of Monday afternoons. I don't know. Very tactical. And, uh, so I guess what I want to see more of is how do we present them things that are completely new and different, or how do we figure out what they need before they can tell us? And that's. I push my team on that a lot because I'll push them that we need to roll out some new service or, hey, this reporting is not good enough, or we need a new feature. They're like, oh, if any of our clients asked for that, I'm like, no, they haven't asked for that. But that doesn't mean it's not awesome, right? Like, it doesn't mean it wouldn't be great.

Speaker C: You don't want to wait till they're asking for it, right? Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker A: Yeah. Like, if they're asking for it, then they probably already needed it at six months ago.

Speaker C: Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker A: And so I think that's one thing I'd say I struggle probably a bit in, like, the market research space of, like, how do you fill the gaps that you can't hear?

Speaker C: Not enough foresight. Is that a fair way to describe that?

Speaker A: Yeah, probably.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Like how to understand your clients, how to fill white space in a ways. But yeah, I'm sure you guys have some tools for that or whatnot.

Speaker C: Tools for that, yeah.

Speaker B: Awesome. Well, David, this has been a, uh, wonderful conversation. I wanted to close this out here, thinking about how we can maybe help some of our listeners out there. For someone who may feel really, perhaps overwhelmed by how quickly the retail media space is evolving, what is one principle that you think that brands and marketers should hold onto if they want to build stronger relationships with customers more intentionally over time?

Speaker A: Yeah. And I think this not even specific to retail media. I mean, yes, retail media, but it's just creating and publishing content as a brand as much as possible. So the world has continued to be more fragmented. I think a lot of brands are so, uh, scared in some ways or so protective of their brand that they're not pushing content. So, you know, they'll, they'll spend a week to come up with one Instagram post, and it's like, all right, you could have made that in 10 minutes.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: And I'd rather have you post 10 times, uh, than once in the right way. And know, between Instagram, TikTok, everything's becoming so fragmented. You don't have a megaphone anymore. And so maybe this doesn't help them not feel overwhelmed to your question because. But it's more of like do the content put it out there, you know, done. Obviously better than perfect because I think that's the. Especially the smaller brands we work with that are stealing share from the big brands. They're out there, they're active, they're talkative, they're really just involved in those conversations that their customers want them to be in and they're not sitting and waiting. So that's maybe the less overwhelmed is just get it done. It'll be good. Is, you know, don't worry about it so much. Just like know who you are and just act versus you know, everything's gotta be a big study or a big, you know, PowerPoint decision.

Speaker C: So gotta get back to that move fast and break things sort of mentality that that startups have. Right. That you kind of lose as you grow.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. I do think a lot of our big CPG clients are sort of still struggling with that. Right. And like can they do that or they do they need to buy those small companies or what. But they're all kind of trying to figure out how to adjust in that space.

Speaker B: Yeah. Uh, done but not perfect is something my perfectionism needed to learn really early on in my career. So I understand how hard that can be, but also how important it is because your audience doesn't know what's perfect to you and they just know that you're out there and you're being active.

Speaker A: Yep. All those posters, I remember those we were talking earlier about some of our kind of like cartwheel launch days is like we had borrowed a lot of that ethos from Facebook as a partner and so we had posters up the office with those types of things. And I do think for me and a lot of us that help did help sort of change our mindset in some of that space and continues to stay.

Speaker B: Uh, well, David, thank you so much for joining us today. This was such an insightful conversation. You really helped make sense of what why retail media has moved from a nice to have channel to really a core part about how brands grow inside of these retail environments.

Speaker A: I agree.

Speaker C: And it's so interesting how loyalty and personalization and E commerce and media are all starting to blend together into this connected ecosystem.

Speaker B: And I really appreciated too, David, the reminder that the measurement only matters when it helps brands make smarter decisions. So. So the really close attribution that brands can make between their retail media spend and then the sales decision was really interesting. So it's actually there's true data there, and it's not just another random dashboard metric.

Speaker C: It is super cool. David, thank you so much for giving us such a clear look at where retail media is headed and what brands need to understand as the space keeps evolving.

Speaker A: Thanks for having me.

Speaker B: And to everyone listening, thank you so much for being part of the Curiosity Current. We'll see you next time.

Speaker A: Thanks for watching.

Speaker C: The Curiosity Current is brought to you by aytm. To find out how AYTM helps brands connect with consumers and bring insights to life, visit aytm.com and to make sure you never miss an episode, subscribe to the Curiosity Current on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us and we'll see you next time.