The Culture Builders - Building a High Performance Culture in ASOS

Speaker A: You're listening to the Culture Builders Podcast, conversations with experts in culture change and um, people underpinned by lessons in well being for teams and individuals.

Speaker B: Hello and welcome to the Culture Builders Podcast. My name is Emma and I'm a senior consultant here at the Culture Builders and I am delighted to be joined today by Raz Vaggiani, who is the Executive Vice President of People Experience at asos. We'll be digging into how ASOS have placed high performance culture at the heart of their work. We'll be exploring topics such as how Raz's first boss made such a lasting impact, how her niece responds to seeing a cassette and how she puts people front and centre of all that she does. We'll talk about how to find balance in people and performance programmes and, and the positive impact that the focus and culture is having on the business which is at the forefront of an ever changing online retail environment. Raz, it's brilliant to have you with us. Firstly, you're clearly passionate about enabling people to thrive at work. Where does that come from for you and how has that shown up across your own career?

Speaker A: Thanks, Evan. Firstly, thanks for having me. You're right, this is a topic I'm absolutely passionate about and it really comes from part probably my upbringing and my family around. Actually, whatever you do, give it 110% but stay true to your values. And actually I've just taken the same concept and the same approach and applied it to work because a, we have to remember why we come to work. There has to be a sense of achievement and also why are you doing this? You're doing this to support your families and your own personal development and growth. So for me there's no delineation around actually how do I approach my life outside of work and then in work and staying consistent and true to that. So that's what's really created the passion and the drive. I don't feel like I'm two different people. You know when people say, oh, I'm very different outside of work, inside of work I'm not, you'll see the same Raz in both environments. That's what's behind my drive and passion for this.

Speaker B: So I love that, that real piece around we are one human being and we have one life and we come and we can get joy and um, development and um, thrive both at home and at work. And those things are interconnected for us all.

Speaker A: Funnily enough, something my coach surfaced a long time ago around, you know, this need to sort of see others thrive and grow has really also come from being the first generation to be born in this country. So I'm a daughter of immigrants and like, I saw what they sacrificed, so there was no way I was going to sacrifice my opportunity because I'm in a very privileged position with what my family have provided for me. And if I want to share some of that within work. So when I see that and sort of like a domino effect and then almost infectious within the organization, it's phenomenal and it's super rewarding. You know, it's not about claiming credit or having a big ego around. This is actually watching others grow and seeing the impact that they have because everyone wins, you know, if everyone thrives. So I love that.

Speaker B: Uh, so your passion for creating opportunity and allowing people to grab that opportunity to be at their best.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: I could sense your joy from seeing people grow. Definitely.

Speaker A: I look at my 7 year old niece, she's so curious and unbelievably articulate and I look at her and go, what kind of working environment are you going to enter into in the years to come and what can we do now to make sure it's the best environment for her?

Speaker B: So kind of looking forward to the future. What does the future of work hold for our younger, uh, generations in our society and how do we create opportunities and how do we grow the skills that they might need to thrive and be successful in the future?

Speaker A: Yeah, because the work starts now.

Speaker B: Absolutely. And Raz, you've had a long career in lots of different organisations. Can you tell me about one or two moments that have really shaped your own leadership journey?

Speaker A: Probably whilst I was at De Beers, I did a mix of roles at De Beers. I started off in HR and then I went into a Chief of staff role. I got a chance to run the Consumer and Brands division, which was a retail luxury division. I also was in charge of strategy and corporate affairs and government affairs. So most of the value chain crossed the Beers. I remember when I first stepped into the Chief of staff role and, um, I was supporting a transition between the two CEOs, the outgoing and the incoming. I remember the CEO telling me at the time, raj, you'll be great at this. And I'm like, I've never done this in my life. The imposter syndrome just kicked in. And also not doing hr. Oh my God, what's my value? What's my use? I remember my CEO, uh, saying probably three or four times a week when he saw my face in some of the meetings or saw my reaction, said, russ, pain is growth. Honestly, I got to a point where I'm like, if you say that one more time, I'm just going to walk. But I look back at that now and going, he was absolutely right. It was the sharpest learning curve for me. It was also probably where everything cemented for me around leadership, capency. And it's not about being the technical expert. It's actually the leadership and the space and the growth and removing roadblocks, collaborating, setting the standards, raising the bar, all those things. It just culminated in this one role. And what a fantastic opportunity I've taken that through around. Actually, when we talk about development growth, it's not just going upwards. It's about breadth. And actually how do you get that to become a better leader, not necessarily a technical expert. You can hire that all in and have folks in and around you who can pepper for that. Actually, leadership growth really comes from own your curiosity. I didn't realize I was doing that at the time.

Speaker B: That's interesting.

Speaker A: I did it for two years. It took me six months to get truly comfortable with that, uh, and go, actually, what's the worst that's going to happen? I've got the support and backing. I'm in the right environment, I'm role modeling that you can't step out of your discipline and do another role and grow. So that was a massive turning point and that came quite late in my career.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I'm so thankful for it. Another example was when I was at Hotel Chocolat. Uh, I joined as a learning and development specialist. And through various restructures and for various reasons, I was then suddenly overnight put in charge of the HR function. And uh, Google was my friend at that moment in time. Okay, how do you run this process? And what I quickly had to learn was that don't paralyze yourself, ask the questions, spend the time actually creating a plan, hiring. It was my first hires back then hire the team in and around you, make sure you clearly communicate, understand everything. So that's where I really got my structural learning to how do I approach something that's completely alien and new to me and the stakeholder management piece. So they were the two pivotal points for me in my career.

Speaker B: And Raz, there's so much rich learning in everything that you said and um, I guess a few takeaways I took from there is in really uncomfortable to be at your learning edge, but also really important for our growth. But the environment within which you are at your learning edge really matters. You talked about kind of being pushed, but you knew you had the support there, uh, there were senior people backing you that you were allowed to make mistakes and that was all going to be fine. And I really felt that coming through and then also about kind of stepping up and stepping out. And we see that in all the work that we do with leaders as they step into those big first strategic leadership roles is they kind of think what am I going to do if I come to work next week? And I'm not doing all the doing and being my subject matter expertise, what is it I'm bringing, what are the skills, what can I add value to to the team and the organisation? And so that, that's a really important message for people. And then the final one I've got through that was around leading through people. So you can't do it all yourself. Who do you need great hires and being really confident in their skills and abilities.

Speaker A: I think that last point is really important for leaders. I hear this all the time, certainly within the organization I'm in right now with an ASOS around you, I constantly advise leaders to go, go hire people that are better than you, that know more than you, that you can learn from. I'm m constantly telling my team I learn from them every day, not just in terms of technical knowledge but also how they're approaching things. The diversity in thought. Yeah, they're here for that reason, not because they're another version of raz. We might as well be robots. Yeah, there is that. And then the other extreme is I was in a management committee meeting the other day and there was a topic on pricing and I said to my CEO, uh, okay, I'm going to step out of this time because I don't think I'm going to add any value. And it's something I'm always encouraging people to do in terms of managing their own time and effectiveness. But he made me sit back down and said no, you do add value just by asking the questions and looking at it through a different lens. And I did. It's also the importance of having other people around you who should never be underestimated, you know, and having those buddies that you aligned with beforehand going actually please call me out in a meeting if I suddenly go quiet or give me feedback after a meeting around what I could have been done differently and it should be a two way relationship, which trust as well.

Speaker B: And that takes a lot of courage. I was sitting here reflecting, he was thinking the courage to ask for uh, feedback, knowing sometimes it can be a bit painful, but we're going to grow from it. That really struck me. Is that something that you've learned to grow with over time?

Speaker A: That comes back to my upbringing, actually. It's been super critical and I don't mean that negatively. It's always been, you can do better, you can do better, you can do better. So ask for feedback has come very naturally to me and it's also an expectation I have that you will just give me feedback, won't you? Even if I don't ask for it. But honestly, it's the one vehicle you grow through.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker A: Very rarely about technical capability, because that will surface in the results. But leadership and behavior, it has to be observed. So therefore it's so powerful when the person that has seen it or experienced it gives you that firsthand.

Speaker B: I agree. We often talk about technical capabilities can be taught, they can be learned, but your, your values, your behaviors, how you show up, that stuff that is harder to learn. You can grow those skills, but you have to be really intentional about wanting to understand your impact and how you can improve. The other thing that really struck me as you were talking was this kind of sense of humility or vulnerability, being comfortable, not having to know it all and know all the answers.

Speaker A: Yeah, it was something new at asos. And I ended up opening with that statement saying, look, sorry, this is a silly question or this is an ignorant question. I don't know the answer to this. Can someone help me in a way, because I was trying to create the environment around, please everyone do more of it. Because I'm pretty sure you're thinking the same thing, by the way, over there. So I tried to do that by bringing context in around, why am I asking? I just don't know the answer. Making it infectious. Like, let's do it, it's totally fine, or ask it after a meeting. But do find out. Never not find out, do find out in whichever way you're comfortable with and

Speaker B: coming out of that is you kind of role modeling what you are wanting to see, but also setting those really clear expectations. Actually, this is a place where feedback is given and received and is expected amongst us as a team, as an organization to drive the business, business to drive our learning kind of pace of change that comes through really loudly and clearly. Have you kind of faced any challenges to that feedback piece?

Speaker A: There is a real fear of feedback. And by the way, I think this has been in every organization I've worked for because it speaks to the vulnerability piece. A how comfortable are you delivering what is perceived to be a tough message? Whereas I'm very much like, no no, it's because you care enough about me that you're going to give me the feedback. So this is an absolute positive. So flipping the view on actually what feedback is there for and then also how is the person going to receive it? There's such a double whammy. It's something so basic. But honestly, it's the hardest thing. I agree.

Speaker B: And that intent is so important, isn't it? I'm giving you this feedback because I know you want to be even better at, uh, that if you did this, it would be even better because. And kind of going in with that positive intent and, um, shifting that mindset. That feedback is about criticism or negativity. It's about growth and learning.

Speaker A: It is. It's that. Would you not tell your friend that she's got spinach in her teeth or would you let her walk around the whole day? You wouldn't, would you? That's no different in the workplace when it comes to performance either.

Speaker B: Um, and in everything that you've said, there's so much to unpack. But everything you said speaks to culture, leadership and, um, performance at work. If you were to kind of summarise what a high performance culture means to you, Raz, how would you do that? What would you say?

Speaker A: That's a really good question. Firstly, the work on this is never done, as I found. Um, for me, at a very basic level, it's about setting the bar and then continuing to raise it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But making sure that's incredibly clear to everybody. The other piece for me is clarity. What are your expectations structurally, either through okrs, um, or actually through conversations around everyday feedback around. Yes, we've delivered. No, we haven't delivered here, the reasons why. So there is a real clarity and the communication is there and it's always on. Final piece for me is just continuous development. We've recently launched the Leadership Compass as a framework within the organization. And, um, this is about now bringing it to life, but creating a universal language and a structure to hang conversations off, hang the activities off, hang the initiatives that we're bringing in, whether it be engagement surveys, whether it be our, uh, new approach to performance management, whether it be the way that we hire folks in and how we assess those, whether it is everyday feedback and how you have those conversations, how you manage change, it all anchors back to this Leadership Compass. And it allows my function and my team and the leaders also to provide the appropriate tools, advice and support, depending on where they are, navigate how they're navigating through the Compass. That's how I describe it, it's really about the energy you have, the ownership and the curiosity. Are we all aligned so we don't have subcultures in terms of the high performance piece within asos. It's one and we're one winning team and we know what winning looks like and feels like. Sorry, I waffled there a bit.

Speaker B: No, it's obviously 5% brilliant. You're not waffling at all. I guess the bit I wanted to, uh, explain, explore with you there was this bit about work is never done.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And um, I think that's so important, particularly when people are feeling quite change fatigued or they feel like they're kind of working through uncertainty. How do you keep the energy up in that? Actually we got here, but we're still going forward, we're still moving, we're not going to stop and um, stand still. That's not what the world is like anymore. What do you do to kind of help people come along that journey with you?

Speaker A: For me, it's celebrating the milestones. That's all about bringing people along with you, communicating regularly around how we're doing. But more importantly, the impact it's had not just with them and the broader team, but also the business. For me, it's the small things in that around. This is great. We can do even better. And this then comes into how do we continue to raise the bar?

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: So this is what I mean. The work's never done in this space. You might be on the right track, but honestly, if you sit still on the right track, we're going to be run over. Yeah.

Speaker B: I mean the world and the economy and the market is changing so fast, isn't it? No business can stand still ever.

Speaker A: And businesses can outgrow people.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Somebody could be a super high achiever one year and then under delivering the next year because you've raised the bar and the individual hasn't been able to keep up. Actually. What have you done to support that individual? Because we've raised the bar of performance, but we just haven't brought our people along with me. To me that would be a sign of failure. Yeah, we haven't dealt with performance at that level.

Speaker B: And um, in amongst everything you just said, Raz, you dropped in loads of things for us to dive into a bit more about some of the actual things that you've been doing in terms of a, uh, kind of knitting together this kind of whole program of cultural organizational change which hangs together to create and shift mindsets and behaviors and habits. But before we dive into that Kitchen. Can you just uh, tell us a little bit about where ASOS has been and um, where you've got to so far, the highlights of your journey in asos.

Speaker A: Sure. So I haven't been with ASOS very long. Well, 18 months. It's been a very energizing journey so far because A, my area has a seat at the table which is super important and I have the backing of the management committee in terms of our agenda and creating this high performance, this culture. But secondly, it's been co created, it hasn't been bought off the shelf, written by consultants that don't know asos. It's been built bottom up and endorsed by the management committee. Because I've been in organizations where high performance culture A. It's a buzz term, isn't it, quite frankly? What does it really mean? So how do you make it your own? Making sure you meet the leaders where they're at, not this impossible place to reach because then you'll never get there and you'll constantly feel like you're failing, but incrementally raising the bar to get there. But when you have co creation, you have buy in from the very start and then you have ownership and then you have people endorsing it, talking about it, becoming very much part of everyday language. It's truly embedded. So my journey's been, it's been fun designing, creating, co creating, implementing. And we're away, we're finally away certainly the last sort of four to five months on some of the initiatives that we've been busy beavering away in the background. But they're uh, now surfacing to uh, our leadership and our broader ASOS population. So that's been really fun to watch and be a part of because everybody believes that they've all played part on it and they've got a fingerprint on it. It's their thing. It's not a HR thing or a RAZ thing, it's theirs.

Speaker B: And uh, I love that that's around co creation as a foundational principle of how you've done this work really well. And it's about meeting people where they are but keeping the expectations high. So not coming in with something that's unobtainable. People don't understand, they can't envision themselves being a part of, but creating a vision and then constantly looking for how next, what next? What do you need to do? And m. What was the one biggest thing when you first came into post that you wanted to shift? Was there something in particular you thought, okay, that's something we really need to be working on as a priority.

Speaker A: I wanted to make sure that we had a real reality check, like hold mirror up. Do we know where we are today on a culture basis? You know why? The cultural audit that we undertook with culture builders, which was so insightful, I wanted to really kick that off and design what we wanted to do with it, post it. Not just the actual analysis itself, actually what actions posted it. But the first thing was a reality check. Do we understand where we are? So that would then really focus on the journey ahead of us. And in parallel, I started with the basics. Are we actually talking to each other and giving each other feedback? Do we have the right systems and mechanisms in place to then have those discussions on a structured level? Do we set objectives? What do they look like? What are the quality? So there was a real sense check on what is the capability of our leaders and of our management. Do we know what that looks like and what that means and what are we trying to be, you know, when it comes to what does high performance culture look like at asos, how does that translate into business impacts and results? So a lot of it was around this is where we are today, this is where we want to go and then this is the journey without getting into it. But then I was chipping away at some of the just non negotiables around, just start giving each other feedback, start setting objectives. So it was a bit of a mix of the two, super strategic, but jumped into the operational uh, low hanging fruits that I saw immediately. I remember when I was hiring for some of my team at the time, I described this as there's so much low hanging fruit actually it's on the ground, we just need to pick it up. That's how low it is. There's so much to be done here and the business is ready for it. We're pushing against an open door, which isn't always the case. Sometimes it's just an exercise that's done and without any really meaningful. But at asos we understand that this does translate into business results.

Speaker B: And I think that's what's been really unique about the journey for asos. Your high performance culture journey is this real understanding of there's loads of evidence, there's loads of stuff out there we can use. It has to all be within the context within which the business is operating. So truly understanding the context for ASOs and as you say, lots of organizations we work with, they skip the understanding what's really going on, the cultural audit bit. So how can you choose evidence based practices and interventions. If you don't even know what the issues are, if what people really saying and um, feeling and um, therefore that the things you're doing are going to make a difference and that understanding where you're at holding the mirror up as you say, having then an ambition and a vision for what it looks like whilst alongside doing the things that can make a difference really quickly. So those low hanging fruit that you've been talking about and that feels a bit like your magic mixture because you've created a lot of change in a short space of time through your co creation and perhaps that understanding uh, where you are and where you're going and just getting on with a clear structured program and knitting all together has been what's made it really successful. Successful.

Speaker A: And I think the other piece is we've got the board as a stakeholder group who are very invested in this space. They also want results. Very naturally you have that healthy tension and that debate around uh great Raz, you want to spend some time building your strategy and what you want but you need to move now at the same time that endorsement and support and one of the first things I picked up immediately was our uh, pay for performance. How do we change the incentive scheme ready for when the rest initiatives come and then we were able to marry those two things up. Ah, it truly has been a joint effort for sure not just within asos but also our board that support this agenda as well.

Speaker B: So that real identifying who your stakeholders are in true comms fashion as you would expect, nothing less but really clear kind of stakeholder identification and ah, strong stakeholder management and getting your board on side understanding that this will relate and translate into business impact.

Speaker A: Yeah, the success for me is I'm the person that's talking about this. The least success for me is the board are talking about it, my peer group are talking about it, the CEOs talking about it, all the Basos talking about it. Not me, not it being tagged a

Speaker B: HR thing as Raz's work.

Speaker A: Exactly. It's not, it's everybody else's work. And the other piece that I think has really worked is we started top down because behavior breeds behavior. If you have that ownership and that role modeling, I'd like to think that that would just naturally follow as we go down the organization and create opportunities for growth and development. Also uh, I agree.

Speaker B: The single biggest influencer on culture is the behaviors of the people right at the very top. What they accept, what they allow to happen, what they ignore, what they reward, that's what creates the culture for everybody else. It sets those expectations, sets those standards.

Speaker A: I say that all the time to my peers around. You do realise we're under a m. Magnifying glass. And they were like, no, guys, watch me when we're reading some of the comments from my engagement survey and they're like, really? Do we? Do we do that? How do they know that? I was like, we are watched.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker A: Who we engage with, who we sit at, ah, lunch with, honestly. And there's nothing ill behind it. It's just natural curiosity. I know I do that I forget the role I sit in. Yes. And I wonder, why does anyone want to sit with me? Why doesn't anybody want to have a coffee with me? So when someone says, raj, you are a management committee member, but so it's just demystifying, demystifying that and just knowing also, we're always on show. Always on show.

Speaker B: And it sounds to me like being really intentional about all those micro moments, those tiny little moments where you might say good morning or hello or have a coffee conversation with somebody and how, whether we like it or not, in positions of authority we hold power and that, uh, can be hard for people then to speak truth to us. So how do you reliably, consistently and intentionally break down those barriers, Create the opportunity where people are able and feeling more comfortable to tell you kind of what's really going on? And as you say, they're watching everything that you do.

Speaker A: They do. I mean, I had a beautiful moment on the Northern Line. We're right opposite Mornington Crescent Station. So the chances are, at the end of the day, when you've got almost 2,000 ASOs coming out of the building, they're likely to be on the Northern Line. Being in the position I'm in, people know me, but I won't know everybody.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Somebody struck up a conversation with me whilst we were on the train carriage and, um, I did not know that individual. I was very honest. I said, I'm really lovely to meet you. Thank you for talking to me and like engaging in a conversation. Tell me where you work, which department you work now, when I see that person, hi. Hello. How are you doing? You know, it's just. It's dense moment.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And not just shutting down a conversation just because we're on the way home and we're no longer at work.

Speaker B: Uh, it's that building human connection and every opportunity that we have, isn't it?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And, Raz, one thing that you talking a little bit about earlier was this kind of Pace of cultural change for asos. And um, I was just wondering about any tensions that you come up against in terms of performance and delivery and outcomes and impact, alongside maintaining engagement and a sense of belonging and a place where people feel that they can be at their best. Can you talk a little bit about that tension?

Speaker A: I mean, this is one I'm always grappling with. It's always there, as in actually how fast is fast really? And what can the business absorb, you know, in our ASOs while still maintaining this, um, and it's a hot topic for us, how do you keep up the pace? But what I'm trying to do is get people to own their pace. It might be my pace, but it should be your pace too. But what does your pace look like? And if this is the vision, as long as you've got your anchors in place, then you go, you go run to it. And then the other piece is the support mechanisms and support being communication is a big one for me. If we've reprioritized something, let's communicate that. If something's not going so well, let's share that in the form of feedback. So it's a constant tension, but it should always be a constant tension, otherwise we'll get really complacent and you'll have 2,000 ACOs running in 2,000 different directions. Yeah, and it's about impact, not activity. Because that's the danger of not having this tension around. You can be super busy, but completely busy on the wrong thing.

Speaker B: And do you think that's where your okrs have come in and helped you? Because I guess I was thinking about. You talked about alignment and, um, we talk about alignment as well. One of the kind of the key elements of a high performance culture, which is how do you communicate that? Why across such a broad business such asos. And how do you know that people believe it rather than it just kind of sitting on a plan?

Speaker A: Yeah, we talk a lot about what's hardware and what software and actually the need for both. So hardware being structure, okrs is an example of that. Uh, so we will give you structure and clarity around actually what's expected of you. And then the software is actually, how do you manage against those okrs? What the conversations you have, what does um, feedback look like against those okrs? So you need both. You can't do one or the other, otherwise it becomes very one dimensional and you don't catch those moments of improvement and how we continue to raise the bar. So the structural piece helps. And I think the job to be as, uh, the job we're still sort of assessing and needs to be worked through is we've got a lot of process debt in the organization. There's a lot of. We've just done it this way. Russ, you know, why can't. There's nothing broke. No, no, it's not about being broken. It's about improving and becoming more efficient, especially with the backdrop of AI. Yeah. At the moment, I have a real overwhelming sense that we're already behind, and I can't tell you why. I feel that probably because of the amount of volume and traffic that's been discussed on AI at the moment. So how do I, like, assess that, bring that into the organization? Because I feel this overwhelming responsibility around, um, I'm not going to have. I need to get these 3,000 ASOs ready.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Potentially outside of ASOs, which means getting them AI ready. And I feel the responsibility for that. So, uh, you know, how do I. How do I sort of solve for that in some ways, you know, for their future growth? Because it's not just about their growth. ASOS is also their growth beyond. Sorry, I'm not sure I answered your question there, but, um.

Speaker B: No, I think it's a great answer because in all of our conversations that we're having, AI, uh, is the single biggest challenge that people are coming up. You know, there's managing through uncertainty and complexity, but people really grappling with that. Uh, how are we going to use AI within our business to drive change and transformation? How do we do that without losing the human connection? Because we know competitive edge for businesses is being able to learn faster than others. Everybody was going to be using AI, but how do you leverage it? How you do? Do you embed it? How do you use it to transform systems, people's processes? And what I love Raz about all of our conversations is you're always not just thinking about asos, but you're thinking about the future. You think about future work, uh, future generations. How do we equip people for what's next after them when they leave asos, their future careers as well? Um, I think that's quite special.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I go back to my niece. I mean, I gave her a cassette the other day just to see what she do. She thought you were binoculars. Know, you. You know, and like, it was like, makes me feel old, you know, and it's just like. It's that analogy, isn't it? Like, oh, my gosh, I don't know, maybe they won't be iPhones when she's in the work, there might be something else. So I'm just like, what's that going to be? So I think there's that, uh, in terms of that generation or the new workforce coming in, it's the current one in terms of developing. It's also, you know, going back to my early career and what sparked my own curiosity. It's such a hot topic AI through all my questioning and real like, you know, what do we do about it guys? What are we doing? You know, how can I help? How can I help? And what that's resulted into is I am now hiring under my remit a transformation team. This has nothing to do with hr. I'm hiring a AI enablement team which are going to bridge the gap between the business functions, whether that be marketing, commercial, brand, product and the tech function. Because the tech function are responsible for tooling the AI product. And um, the business function have just got all these things that they want to fix and they want to see if AI can solve for it. The middle block is missing.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So the middle block is the block I'm going to take accountability for in terms of folks that are going to come in, assess the needs, ensure and separate between. Is it just a process that needs to be automated or is there a genuine need for an AI tool? If there's an AI tool, they go off to the tech function and you know, and help facilitate that. Uh, if it's automation, pass it back to the function and go, it's your job, go automate it. So really delineate between the two tracks and what this team does and sees it end to end in terms of we're going to teach you business function how to take ownership of this. We're going to assign close to the right tool to use, but we'll be with you along that journey to embed it, manage the process for you and you'll be supported through the change management journey, any time, sort of people, implications, et cetera, and just make sure it lives and breathes and it doesn't run as a parallel track. So I'm just about to embark on that. Uh, and it's, you know, it's learned for me. It came through my own curiosity, but it also suits the business around. We need, we need this. That feeling we're already behind is the thing that's going to probably make me go a bit faster.

Speaker B: And it's that kind of real sense of energy as you say. It's that kind of looking up and looking out and thinking what's everybody else Doing, uh, I'll be harnessing this as quickly and efficiently as we could do in that sense of we need to get on the front foot here too. And um, the other thing that I was really thinking about as you were talking was around again stepping up in your strategic leadership role as being the person who joins the dots. He says actually this needs to join over here, over here and over there in order we can get maximum value for everything that we're, we're doing together. And we work with um, Fintech company last week who are absolutely exploring how are they going to transform their customer service experience, experience, business value, people value through AI. And one of the things that they were doing is making it objective for every single member of staff to spend 10 to 15 minutes at least every week on innovating with AI, practicing, testing, seeing what it does within a framework that keeps them safe. But um, actually making it part of someone's role, job expectation and um, owning it. So one of the biggest thing was we want again people to co design and own our own AI transformation journey. So I thought that was a really lovely idea.

Speaker A: I mean it's becoming table stakes, right? We need to, we need to be prepared for that on that very, very early stage at a very basic level and advanced as well.

Speaker B: And Raz, uh, you've talked quite a lot about pace of change and this kind of your 18 month journey for yourself and the journey that ASOS is going on. And um, I was thinking about how do you keep up the kind of collective energy of the business when this really is, it's a marathon and not a sprint.

Speaker A: That's a good question. I think it's just reminding everybody of what are we trying to achieve. And actually if we achieve this, these are the rewards and this is what it means for you and your team and um, for broader ASOs. So it's continuously reminding everybody here, uh, of what the purpose is and why we're doing this. So on those tough days, is entitled to a tough day. You should have a tough day. It means you're pushing yourself and you're leaning into all those difficult things. If you're coming in and everything's hunky dory, 365 days of the year I'm challenged whether you're pushing yourself. So I think it's, it goes back to the annoying comment that my previous CEO used to say to me around pain is growth. He's absolutely right. You know, I must ring him up and tell him that

Speaker B: all these years

Speaker A: later, uh, to say thank you and Put it in a plaque for him. But, um, it's those anchors. Let's just, let's utilize those anchors, remind people of why and what and where and actually what this means for you.

Speaker B: And Maz, as you've been talking, you've alluded to kind of some of the really important bits of work that you've done. So you've talked about, starting with your cultural understanding, where you are, you've talked about your leader compass. So really understanding what does it mean to be a leader here at asos? What are the behaviours we expect, how might we measure it? You've talked about the rolling out of OKRs. Some of the other bits of your culture journey that I'm aware of I'd be useful to explore is you're thinking about team effectiveness journeys. So taking it down to team levels, um, your leader labs and circles and how you communicate with others. You talked obviously about your pay for award and, and calibration process. How do all those things kind of work together and which of those have you kind of most enjoyed being a part of?

Speaker A: Oh, gosh, all of them. I mean, firstly, it's all one giant ecosystem and they're all connected and they all talk to each other. Whether people realize it or not, they all talk to each other. It's like a jigsaw piece. Like, you know, we're putting all the bits of the puzzle together and creating this beautiful ASOS canvas. What I've enjoyed is probably my own personal, um, team effectiveness journey with my first team being my peer group and then also with my functional team. So I've had a chance to do it with my peer group and watch us all grow and bond. We've changed a lot of the leadership team over the past year. There was a bit of an old crowd, new crowd, you know, so it's been a real moment of connection and getting to know each other and then therefore building that trust to lean on each other, give each other feedback, etc. And then at a functional level, I have a very unconventional leadership team because I want to stay close to certain parts of the function just to avoid duplication and make the time more effective. And also I work very inclusively. It's not about having certain levels only report into me. I want to stay where the work is. So I have a large team, very deliberately so. It's super important, this team, because of the size of the team and the impact this team has, not just at a, uh, functional level, but with the broader business, because they are extensions of me. Just as I am an extension of them. It's been super powerful and we've just started that journey. But I love the conversations. I hear, uh, we're starting some of the, uh, work post our first day in preparation for our second day around talking about commitments and it's playing through. So how do we create those and make sure that they become habits, everyday bits and then embed those? I'm already starting to see the benefits.

Speaker B: And that comes through loud and clear, doesn't it? It's certainly in the kind of conversations I might have with people across asos is this real sense of actually leadership is just how we're experienced in the moment. So how are we going to build the behaviors that we want to see, the behaviors we want to commit to and people really going off and testing that. And you can feel this sort of energy and it's, it's not always easy, is it? Sometimes they can. You kind of feel like there's a shadow side to some of this stuff. It can be hard work. But this real sense of energy that the business has for keep going, keep going, we can, we can do this. And it is shifting mindsets and beliefs and behaviors in practice and what a huge commitment.

Speaker A: You know, you're taking out entire leadership teams for like five, six days a year. It just talk to the commitment the business has to this journey as well.

Speaker B: It signals, doesn't it, the importance of which the senior, the team has on people's, um, team effectiveness and driving performance

Speaker A: at work and actually sharing that, you know, with the teams. Blair around. Actually, we've spent the day together just in case you wondered where we all were yesterday. You know, we had a day together discussing this, this and this, and these are the things we're changing or that we've committed to. I think that's also equally important in terms of closing the loop and also just checking back in and going, are you noticing a different, is there a benefit, is this working, etc. So, so this is the interconnection piece as well for me.

Speaker B: And so often we see organizations where senior teams go out for the whole day and they come back and there's nothing said. There's sort of this tumbleweed moment and everyone's thinking, well, what were they doing? And um, certainly that bit about kind of collective commitment to check in. So this is what we were doing. This is what we're talking about. This is what we said we're going to do. And then checking back, have we done it? What impact has that had? And that's a. Something that's kind of really hard to create as a shared behavior, but something that can really shift the dial.

Speaker A: Absolutely agree.

Speaker B: So, Raz, I'm conscious we're coming to the end of our, uh, really valuable time together. Um, I had two final questions, if that's okay. So you've alluded a little bit to this, but I guess I was thinking you're on a journey. You've just said it never ends. So what's next? What's the kind of next big area of focus or priority for you and your work at asos?

Speaker A: Yes, it's going to be AI related, I think on a business level. And how do we embed that into everyday working practices so it becomes a table stakes piece, not a, oh, here's, you know, here's a separate thing. We've got to think about AI. And then I think it continues to be working on a high performance culture and continuing to raise the bar in this space because we've just started. Genuinely, it's about embedding it and, you know, making sure that we catch all the new folks that are joining asos. You know, the onboarding journey around what it's like and what we expect of you whilst you are here. And it's also really ensuring that our talent is top notch with our existing workforce as well, because they continue to push themselves, they continue to grow. It's a true win, win.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And that's not yet understood, I don't think fully within asos. So that's still a job to be done.

Speaker B: So that kind of embed, sustain and drive. Keep going, keep going. And finally, if you were to have one piece of advice for another leader in a, in an organization looking to roll out their high performance culture journey, what would that be?

Speaker A: I'm going to steal this from our previous class. Pain is growth. Lean into it. Don't stop. And if you pause, you'll lose the momentum. Do not pause. Find your buddies that uh, are with you in this. It's never a HR thing. It's just, just keep going and, you know, and don't give up. And it'll come. It'll come.

Speaker B: So throw yourself in, be committed, surround yourself with everybody, knit it into the business and, um, have faith and belief that, uh, change will come.

Speaker A: It will. Yeah. I do firmly believe that. And I've been, I've done this many a time in every organization I've been in and it's, and it's never not worked. Never not worked.

Speaker B: Thanks, Raz. I have loved our conversations and what has stuck with me is how a high performance culture work is never done, but is something you lead every day. It's how you show up, it's how you connect with others, and it's how you keep raising the bar for individuals and the wider business. I'm sure that those listening today have taken as much as I have from you sharing your journey with us. Thank you.

Speaker A: Thank you for listening. Continue the journey@theculturebuilders.com Sam.