Building a passion-driven agency (featuring Emily Allard)

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: You're listening to Chats with Chip on the FIR Podcast Network, featuring conversations with agency owners and experts. Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Chats with Chip podcast. I'm your host, Chip Griffin, the founder of saga, the small agency growth alliance. And I'm delighted to have with me today the founder of 24 Sports Marketing, Emily Allard. Welcome to the show, Emily.

Speaker A: Thanks, Chip. Thanks so much for having me.

Speaker B: It is great to have you. I'm really interested to get into your story, uh, for reasons that will become obvious to listeners as we go on. Hopefully, if not, I'll spell it out for them just to make it simple. Uh, but before I do that, why don't you just share a little bit about yourself with our listeners?

Speaker A: Sure. Sounds good. Uh, so my name's Emily Allard. I was born and raised in the Bay Area. Um, I grew up playing sports, literally, since I could probably walk is what my parents would say. Um, I ended up playing softball for about 21 years and was able to take that career into division one and then for a couple years into the pro league at the time. And as I was going through all that and really just trying to understand how much I was loving marketing and all the things behind the scenes, I was able to merge those two passions, um, over the last couple of years, bringing high level digital marketing back to an industry that really needs it in women's athletics. So, um, 30 seconds. That is the, the story arc, but there's a lot in between that I'm sure we'll get to.

Speaker B: I was gonna say we'll dive into lots of that. And, you know, I mean, I love that you were able to take something that was a passion of yours for most of your life and find a way to parallel that as you moved into the agency world. And, you know, there's a lot of debate in agency circles over whether you should have a passion for the kinds of CL serve and the work you do, or whether it should just be profitable work or. And I, I'm a firm believer, um, that there's a Venn diagram where those two can intersect and you just need to find it.

Speaker A: Sure. I think that's a great point. And I am definitely the type of person who wants to wake up in the morning and, like, enjoy opening my laptop and enjoy what I'm doing. That is me, for sure. So I lean on that passion side as well. Very much.

Speaker B: Excellent. And, and, you know, my view is if you want to be miserable, just go get a regular job. It's a lot Less stressful than running your own business and all that entails. 100%, go be miserable and let someone else cut you the check.

Speaker A: I like it. I like it.

Speaker B: So, uh, for those of you who may not know, um, one of my side passions, side businesses is sports photography. Uh, and so that's one of the things that particularly drew me to this conversation and the fact that you have a background in sports and, you know, I kind of dabble with it. For those watching on video, you can see a picture of a mocked up, uh, front page from the local newspaper where they were thanking me for some of the pictures I had given them over the years. Um, and so it's always part of me. Uh, and so, you know, finding this intersection is really interesting because we don't see this all that often. Um, and I particularly like that. And we were talking about this pre show that you've sort of found a niche within a niche. So you're not just doing sports marketing, you really are. You have a special focus on women's athletics. So talk to me about, I mean, other than the passion bit of it, was there a, was there business thought behind being that focused or was it really more driven just by the passion?

Speaker A: It's a great question. I would say it's a little bit of both. So the passion from me, as I grew up playing softball specifically, I got to see so many different levels of women's athletics. Little league, travel, ball, college pro. And we've seen a huge shift, I would say, over the last three to five years in women's sports. But while I was playing, it was lack of resources, lack of investment, lack of this ability to like hire the right people and all of these different things. So I saw both sides of wow. Once I was learning more about marketing, I was like, this would be amazing for teams and programs and schools and leagues to be able to have this type of just high level foundation and bringing that to an industry that really needed it. So it was a passion project for me. It still is. But at the same time, I think there was this, this need in this niche that I spend a lot of my time just educating clients on what's out there and what are the channels that we can use and how can we best like fit within them. So it's, it's a lot of fun. And I think it, it's both.

Speaker B: Yeah. And, and I, I like how you sort of, you bring those two together. And you're absolutely right. I mean, you know, women's athletics has had a transformation in, in recent years. Um, you know, it's still not where it probably could or should be. Um, and it hasn't really fully trickled down or really trickled down all that much to the youth level, which is where I spend most of my time. Um, given my preferences, I generally prefer to shoot, um, women's sports in high school and those kinds of things, in part because I'm not competing for as much space with other photographers and they don't get the same level of attention. So they're more appreciative of when I show up at a game.

Speaker A: Very much so.

Speaker B: And that's unfortunate, right, because sometimes these games are, you know, better than the boys variation of the same sport. Um, but there's fewer people in the stands, there's fewer media there. And so I think there is real opportunity to be had in doing more to promote them. So as you're going about doing this, are you focused at a particular level of women's athletics, uh, for the work that you do? Is it mostly professional? Is it collegiate, is it youth organizations? Who are you working with within that subset?

Speaker A: Great question. So we are currently avoiding the college landscape because it's a bit of the wild, wild west. Currently we don't have to get into that topic, um, but our big focus is really the companies that are within sports, so not the athletes. At some point we'll get probably into the team space, I would say, but we are working with like nonprofit organizations, sporting goods companies, um, tournament companies and organizations. We're trying our best to help prove the value of being in the women's athletics space. And we firmly believe the more that we can grow the companies, the more the industry itself is going to grow and then, you know, give back to the players, the teams, the universities, etc. So we're in that company specific space, but of course we'll expand at some point. Wherever that goes.

Speaker B: Sure. I mean, any good business owner is always willing to listen to opportunities.

Speaker A: There you go.

Speaker B: And follow the, uh, the Golden Brook road wherever it goes. Um, so, you know, as you do that, I mean, talk a little bit about the kinds of things that you do for these companies and organizations in order to, um, help them break through, if you will, particularly given the special challenges that women's athletics have versus men's.

Speaker A: Sure. So I think I mentioned this a little bit earlier, but a lot of what we're doing is education of just, you know, tell me about your marketing efforts right now. A lot of times we're working with companies that have really small staffs or, or you know, lack of resources, lack of budget. So us even just coming in and being a second pair of eyes, a sounding board, like, oh, this is really interesting. Tell me more about xyz. Have you ever thought of doing paid media or, you know, we have some clients who are still emailing, like bcc, not using a, uh, platform. Like we are really working to bring, elevate this level of marketing. Right. So we have certain services, email, organic, social, paid media, SEO, things like that. But a lot of times, again, we're educating clients what SEO even is. So there's a lot of consulting. I think that just happens naturally from that. And then we can start to direct them into maybe some service specific channels if that makes sense for them.

Speaker B: Yeah. So it certainly sounds like there's some, some low hanging fruit to be had. Very much so in a lot of these, which is, I think always helpful. Um, when you're starting, uh, a new client engagement is to find those because it gets you those quick wins. That shows progress. 100%.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yep. Couldn't agree more.

Speaker B: Um, you know, what would you identify as the, if they exist, the particular challenges of reaching, um, the women's market versus the men's market when it comes to this kind of work. I mean, is it, is it, or is there really no distinction? You're just kind of doing it all and it just, it sort of, it all floats to the top as a result. I mean, are you doing direct outreach targeted at women and supporters of women's sports?

Speaker A: Sure. So we've been very fortunate as of late, where word of mouth is our biggest marketing, um, vehicle for the company. We will be getting into maybe some direct outreach here, I would say in the next year or so. But a lot of where we've gotten clients in the past have just been from my past connections through softball clients. Um, I, uh, don't want to speak for them, but they seem very happy, so they're sharing our work with others. And then it really is just, it goes back to that education piece of just companies knowing that this type of marketing exists. Um, I worked in a nonprofit for about six years and when I left, I went into corporate agency world and I was blown away. I was like, oh my gosh, like all of this can come back to. I know we don't know that this exists. You know what I mean? So there's just this big hole in a lot of areas that we're really working hard to fill.

Speaker B: Um, one of the things I'm always, uh, curious about when I talk with agency owners is sort of the thought process that went into deciding to pull the trigger and start the business. And there's all sorts of different ways that we become agency owners a lot it's purely accidental. We're just doing some freelance work and oh, look, I've got an actual business here I need to do something about. Um, I can say that's how I started my first agency back 20 some years ago. Um, it was very much, I was between jobs and so I called myself a consultant because it sounded a lot better than unemployed. And ah, pretty soon I was signing up clients. Figured I ought to set up an actual business around it. But, so talk to me, you know, was it, you know, was it a well thought out plan, uh, to go down this path, or at least as well as it could be at the time, or was there something else to it?

Speaker A: Great question. I had a very similar path as yours. So once I went to that corporate agency side, our, my first freelance client, real client, was the company that I used to work for. So stayed in touch with my boss, who is a dear friend and mentor. And as soon as I left, maybe six months later, she was like, um, what you're doing now, do you think that would help our association? And I was like, absolutely. And then again, it's this education conversation of here's what I'm learning. This is how it's impacting, this is how we measure. I would love to see what we could do, you know, with the association for this. So that's how it started as that builds to your point. Now I'm up at 6am Working on my freelance clients, starting my real job at 8:39. You get the idea. You can only sustain that for so long. Um, but I am very, very, I will jump off a cliff, but I am very calculated when I do it. So I built a safety net. I like, worked on an emergency fund where if I quit my job and then every single freelance client canceled, I would have a cushion to figure out my life. So I just, I worked both for as long as I could and then it was the scariest thing I've ever done to take that leap. But I have not looked back and I will proudly say I have not dipped into the emergency fund yet. Uh, we're almost two years in, so I feel very proud about that.

Speaker B: That is fantastic. As you look at those two years, what has surprised you the most in being an agency owner, for better or for worse?

Speaker A: Yeah, this probably will not surprise you one bit, but it is literally everything that does not have to do with marketing. So all of the behind the scenes, uh, hiring my first employee, I probably cried for nights over that. Am I doing this right? Are the benefits correct? You know, do I have enough to pay a full time salary? Taxes, thank goodness for CPAs. Also would cry myself to sleep trying to figure out how to do taxes. Um, just all of those different requirements. Um, I'm very much. I want to do it right and have that integrity and accountability. So, um, that's been a big piece of. Just something that surprised me or I didn't think would play as big of a role as it does, but trying to do it the right way.

Speaker B: Yeah. And that is, that is not surprising to hear. That is, that is a lot of what I do at Saga is helping handhold agency owners as they're. They're crossing those various bridges. Uh, what I can say to you is that the good news is once you cross those bridges, it's so much easier. Um, I always say that the hardest employee to hire is the first one. After that, it almost becomes too easy at times. And so you've got to be, you know, probably cautious that you don't overdo it.

Speaker A: Totally. It's good to know.

Speaker B: But so having having those systems and processes in place gives you the flexibility to make decisions that are right for the business without, yeah, I'm not gonna say without any stress, but without the same level of stress.

Speaker A: Totally. Um, I think the Brene Brown calls it an fft. Um, I'm not sure if we're allowed to cuss on here, but it's blank first time. Um, and anytime you go through something for the first time, it always comes with its own challenges. To your point. But it gets easier as you go. So, um, thank you for that.

Speaker B: Absolutely. And what I always say is that everything that I do and the content I produce and the consulting that I do is really just sharing what worked and what didn't work for me when I tried it. So that you get the experience of my first time instead of having to, um, do it, uh, with yours. Um, although even then, everyone's situation is different. Um, so as you think about the future of marketing in women's athletics.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, what are the, what are the biggest opportunities? What are the biggest challenges ahead? Sort of, you know, looking in that, that larger crystal ball.

Speaker A: Yeah. I would say 10 years ago we were really adamant, uh, while we were playing in the pro league about telling stories, telling our stories, which is what marketing is all about. Right. We're storytellers. But the, to your point, you know, photographers aren't there. It was really hard to get media companies there. Uh, us being on tv, like all of those things, there were so many cool stories to tell, but just one, no one was capturing them and two, no one could hear about it. And I think that's a big shift that we've seen over the last three to five years is now there are people in this space and there are people listening. And because it is visible, you know, a little girl can turn on the TV and see so many different, uh, women's sports. So it's, that has come such a long way. I think in terms of the maybe opportunity side of it is we're starting to see a lot more investment in women's athletics. There's lots of conversations that happen where, you know, the NBA was around for X number of decades before they ever made any funds. There's a lot of these leagues that were subsidized by xyz, like getting that type of investment on the women's side to then see that return, I think is the next like big opportunity. Um, and we're starting to see it, but I think there's a lot more that can be done there.

Speaker B: Yeah, and one of the things I'm particularly curious about is, you know, your thoughts on, on the focus, the extreme focus on one or two individuals when it comes to women's sports. And is that, I mean, obviously it draws a lot of attention to, you know, the various leagues. Is that, is that sustainable? Is that, do you think that that then, you know, lasts, you know, five or 10 years down the road, even as the personalities change, they have to get replaced by new personalities. Because it strikes me that the growth in a number of things, I mean, if we look back, you know, 25 years ago to women's soccer, that was, you know, it was personality driven by a single team. Now we're having the WNBA driven by one or two personalities.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: I'm curious, you know, your thoughts on that as a marketer and what that means long term.

Speaker A: It's a great, uh, insight. The thing that comes to my mind first is it's a double edged sword. Right. Like one to two individuals have certainly put a league farther on the map. Let's say, um, everyone knows that the WNBA has existed. Now we're on this whole different level because of one or two faces. As you were talking, I was thinking a lot about like LeBron, Jordan, Kobe, like we've always had those one or two individuals on the men's side too. And my favorite thing is like, SportsCenter will tweet, post, whatever, something on LeBron. And then all the comments are like, shut up. Enough about him. Like, we're, we're so tired of listening to him. I think you're starting to see that a little bit too, on, um, the women's side, which I think is a good thing. Like, it's a, like, people are listening, they're engaging, they're interacting. And now we have an opportunity to spread that publicity across multiple, uh, different things. I think my favorite thing I've seen recently is Asia Wilson's, um, campaign for her new shoe, um, through Nike. It was a, like, so incredibly well done video. And I think there's just a lot more of those opportunities that are going to keep coming because of one or two faces who came in and kind of pushed this, this envelope. So a rising tide lifts all boats. Right, that's, that's what I'm hoping for.

Speaker B: Yep. Um, and do you, do you foresee this trickling down to more of the youth levels, um, and maybe changing attitudes and attendance, frankly, at a lot of those things, or is it really gonna. Is that a longer road? I mean, you've obviously experienced every level possible within women's athletics personally, and so, you know, you probably are better suited to speak to that than just about anybody.

Speaker A: I appreciate that. I do think there is trickle down effect for sure. I think as the pro leagues continue grow, um, you know, when I was growing up, I went to men's sporting events. I. We went to Giants games, we went to A's games, we went to, um.

Speaker B: You know, I'm so sorry. You know, I'm a Red Sox fan, so.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. You can't beat Dollar Dog Night, though. I don't know if that still happens for Ace games, but we were balling on.

Speaker B: I know the Coliseum is the worst stadium I've ever been to personally.

Speaker A: And I anyway imagine that being your home, though. Like, that's. That's all I knew growing up. And I was like, this is the greatest.

Speaker B: Now you went to other parks and you're like, oh, my God, it actually can be built properly.

Speaker A: Totally. 100. 100.

Speaker B: Sorry to take you off track.

Speaker A: No, no, you're good there. There is that trickle down effect though, for sure. I think what will be interesting and why I'm not a good person to talk about this is I'm not a huge fan of this nil landscape. Like, I certainly think that we should be, um, uh, like compensated maybe for name, image, likeness. But My understanding of that when it first came out was like, you know, someone buys my jersey and I get a royalty, not I'm getting paid and you know, I'm moving schools and all these. So anyways, we don't have to get down that road. But I do think the landscape in youth sports is changing and I am very much a passion driven person. You play the game the right way, the game will give back to you. And I think we're seeing a lot of money and profit involved in sports right now, especially at the youth levels with tournament organizers and things like that. So sports in general is shifting, um, and it's been really interesting to see that and I think that has a larger trickle down effect on the youth, um, uh, just landscape than maybe some of these pro teams.

Speaker B: So with all of these changes taking place and your optimism for where things are headed, what does that mean for your agency? You know, where do you see yourself headed, um, in the business and you know what, what are your ambitions, um, for the future?

Speaker A: Great question. We have right now we're really service driven from like a digital marketing perspective. I think one of our growth areas that we've really been looking at and trying to grow into, well and strategically is branding. Um, I think that's a big piece, especially in the sports world, but for women's sports specific and helping companies establish a brand, um, and even things as simple as like a brand guide or those types of things, consistency across all of the different things that we're doing in look, feel, messaging, um, that is an untapped area. We believe that. I think we could fit well into, um, and also dream. We really want to get involved in pro, um, women's athletics, whether that's, let's say a WNBA team running ads for a league, like just that kind of stuff. We are, I would say more in the youth nonprofit, um, sporting goods retail space. And I think it would be really fun to get into that pro scene. Um, so those are just a few areas that we've been toying with and thinking about. But again, very smart, very strategic. Not trying to grow too fast and trying to, to go into services that we feel our clients would fit within versus just growing to grow.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's, that's smart. You know, it's a lot of agencies try to grow, um, too fast because they, they, you know, they chase the big logos and things like that as opposed to thinking about how do we, how do we grow and scale intelligently.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: And I've seen a lot of agencies struggle when they Manage to go out and win that big logo way too soon. And they don't have the, the know how the uh, the bandwidth to handle that kind of a client. Um, and it can be really challenging.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's really interesting. And we, we've had a couple of those like, kind of opportunities and I, the first thing I tell a client too is like, I'm so appreciative that you thought of us first and also I want to make sure that we can deliver. So you know, give me some days and times to, to think this through a little bit and if we aren't the best fit, I'm going to tell you and then we can have a conversation about maybe some rec. But I think, I don't know if it's because it's mine or like I started it or whatever that is, but I just feel this protection around the integrity and wanting to do good work for our current clients versus what you're saying, chasing some of these other logos. So um, that's definitely something that has come up a few times for us.

Speaker B: Yeah. And it's, I mean it's tough because you get, it's really easy to get excited by the prospect of working for large clients. And I'll, I don't have any particular, uh, experience with sports leagues or those kinds of things, so I can't speak to them. But, but in other sectors, a lot of the big businesses frankly are pretty abusive towards their agencies, whether that's in payment terms or things like that. And so, you know, oftentimes it becomes a little bit of an albatross.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: Uh, if you could say a little bit of an albatross for uh, for the agency when they win them. Um, and so, you know, oftentimes being more mid market can be helpful, um, at least for a period of growth until you figure out how to navigate those waters. If you were talking to someone right now who was um, thinking about building an agency, maybe it's based on their own passion, maybe like you, they're an athlete and they kind of want to find a way to continue to keep their foot in that game a little bit. Um, even though they're no longer playing. What would be your advice to them as they're thinking about doing that.

Speaker A: Really strategic in how you approach business. And I think what I mean by that is, um, clients talk, your employees talk, people who know you talk. And I think every day we try to approach doing good work, doing work well, um, communicating again under promising over delivering like that integrity piece, I think is the most Important part, especially when you're handling clients money, um, whether that be paid media budgets, their retainers, whatever that looks like. So I think my biggest advice is like how you move throughout the world is going to come back to you tenfold. Um, and like we were talking about chasing logos. Um, you know, I'm not a salesperson either. I just love what I do. So I try and say that as well of like I'm not trying to sell you anything. If this isn't a good fit, like, like let's move on or I'm happy to steer you in the right direction. Um, so just that integrity piece I think is, has served me really well and hopefully will serve others, um, in the same way.

Speaker B: Well, I don't think I could find a better way to wind down this interview because that is the exact kind of advice that we love to share with listeners because it's the practical things from your own hard won experience. Uh, and I think that's what tends to resonate with other owners the most. I certainly appreciate you doing that. If someone would like to learn more about you or have a conversation with you or whatever, how can they do that?

Speaker A: That's uh, a great question. So the company itself is on LinkedIn and Instagram. But I will be honest, we try our best. Like I said, 95% of the time we're helping clients.

Speaker B: So that 5% Cobbler's kids have no shoes, right?

Speaker A: Totally, totally. Our own website, SEO don't come for me. But um, so the, the company24sports marketing.com is our website. We did, did just start a newsletter so if you want to subscribe would be amazing. You can find that on our website. Social, um, media is the same at 24 sports marketing. Um, me personally, if you want to follow my shenanigans on Instagram, it's E and my last name, Allard A L l a r d 24. Those are probably the best places to start. Um, professionally. You can find me on LinkedIn as well. So yeah, that's all I got.

Speaker B: Excellent. Well, those are lots of opportunities for people to connect and I would certainly encourage them to do that. Thank you. This really has been a great conversation. I appreciate you taking the time, Emily, to spend with me and the listeners and um, uh, I wish you all the best as you move forward because I think what you've got is not just an interesting business but also a good mission, um, and something that needs more attention.

Speaker A: Thank you Chip. I appreciate that. Thank you so much for having me on. This was a delightful conversation, and I'm looking forward to learning more as well.

Speaker B: And thank you to everyone who has listened all the way through here. We do appreciate it and I look forward to having you listen to another episode very soon. You've been listening to chats with Chip. For more information about this show or to listen to previous episodes, visit chatswithchip.com.