From psychology PhD to frontend software engineer and career transition coach, meet Manana Jaworska

Speaker A: Being unhappy in your. In your current situation and feeling guilty for it because, like, why am. Why it's not enough for me if it's enough for my colleagues? Like, why I'm not happy with a job that, like, pays me well, that I have all these benefits that I had, Uh, I don't have to work overtime, that I get my vacation, and. And, yeah, I just felt guilty for wanting more.

Speaker B: Hello, friends. Welcome back to the Career Flipper Podcast. You already know this podcast is just me handing you a big old permission slip to chuck the rule book out the window and rethink work. I'm Jenny Dempsey, furniture Flipper, host of this show. And yes, after two years post layoff, uh, I got a day job again. I like to call it the investor in my dreams. It keeps the lights on while I build the stuff I really care about on the side. And okay, for that, I'm grateful. So let me ask you something. Have you ever felt like you were doing everything right? You got the degree, you got the good job, you got the steady paycheck, but deep down, something still felt off, and you felt really guilty about that? That's exactly what today's guest, Manana Jaworska, and I get into on the podcast. Her. Her story is really this gut check reminder that you're allowed to change direction, even if it means letting go of some stability, starting over, and admitting that the thing you worked so hard for just isn't it. She's been through a lot. She got her PhD in psychology, worked in academia as a researcher, then decided that didn't feel quite right. So she took a programming boot camp, which led to an engineering job in Barcelona with the golden handcuffs.

Speaker A: This is.

Speaker B: On paper, it was a dream. Inside, totally different story. She just couldn't ignore that little voice, saying she needed more meaning, more freedom, more purpose. So she listened. And now she's a career transition coach, helping people find clarity and build lives that actually fit. But here's the real plot twist. She didn't just slam the door on her old career. She still does freelance software engineering on the side while she builds her coaching business. Because sometimes the smartest career flip isn't a clean break, it's a bridge. And in this episode, we dig into family and cultural pressure to play it safe, why stability is really not always what it looks like. And how she finally found the courage to walk away while still keeping one foot steady as she builds the life she really wants. So if you've ever felt guilty for wanting more or wondered if that voice inside you Was just being dramatic. Been there. Consider this episode your permission slip to believe it. Let's get into the episode now. Manana. Welcome to the Career Flipper. It's so good to have you here.

Speaker A: Hello, Jenny. I'm very happy to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. Well, tell everybody about you. You know, who you are, where you are, and what you're doing right now.

Speaker A: Sure. So I'm from Poland. Um, I live in Colombia currently. Uh, and yeah, my way here has been long and with a lot of turns that we are going to talk about. So right now, I'm a career transition coach. So I help people with career transitions. I help them figure out what would be the perfect career for them. And, um, I was inspired to do this job because I had career transitions on my own. So, first of all, I was studying psychology, and I really didn't know what I want to do. When I was in high school, I had no idea what to study, as many people. Right. So I feel like that's when the problem started for me. Like, it was this big conflict in my life, like, what I want to do in the future. And. And I really never had, like, a proper support in Poland. There is not really a lot of help in that. Not a lot of career advisors. And I just didn't know that there was, um, this kind of help available. And I was asking my parents for advice. And the thing with asking parents is, of course, they try to give you their best advice, but they just don't know. Like, they give you advice based on the world that they grew up in, which is, like, already it doesn't exist, basically. Right. So I remember I was, like, asking my mom, uh, well, I'm interested in geography. Maybe I could study geography. And she was like, but you. What would you do after geography? There is no jobs. Right? Like, this was like, the. The only thing that mattered. Like, you need to do something that will give you a job. And of course, my parents had no idea what would give you a job. Right. Like, the world is changing so fast right now. So I feel like, well, I. If I can give one advice to everyone, it's like, don't ask your parents for advice. Go to a professional official advice here.

Speaker B: You heard it.

Speaker A: And it's not only. Okay, it's not only because of what I said, but also our parents want us to be safe. So the advice that they will give us is going to be based on that. So that they just want us to have a stable job with a good paycheck with, like, you Know, lawyer, doctor. Right. Like, they just don't think outside of most of the parents. Right. They don't think outside of the box. They just, like, they think the stability is the most important thing, and it's not.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And also, in today's world, there is no such thing as stability.

Speaker B: Right, Right. And I hear that so much. I feel like our parents didn't have any bad intentions. Like you said, um, they're concerned about our safety. They want us to have money to do things and to be safe. And like you said. And I think that's so important to note that, you know, they're speaking from their own generation of what they experienced. And it is so, so different now. And so I think along the way of feedback, you know, advice across the board, who we ask is important, and the pieces of advice that we take from people and actually move forward, we really have to be picky about what we. What we listen to and who we ask. So I love that you brought that up. And I know, uh, people listening probably, like, giggling because they get, like, they understand. But at the same time, it's like our parents only know what they know based off of the experiences. And same with us. I mean, I feel like, you know, future generations. But it is interesting to bring that up because they want the best for us. But it's a little different now, so.

Speaker A: Uh, totally. Yeah. So going back to my story. Yeah. I had no idea what to do. And I remember I was so stressed about it when I was in high school, and. And my ideas were ranging from going to art school to, like, through architecture to, like, studying mathematics. I was all over the place. I think, like, the only thing I've never considered was medicine because I was, like, always too sensitive to blood. So I knew I cannot be a doctor, but I considered all the other paths. And then I even went to see a psychotherapist because of that. Because I was so stressed with this, I. That I don't know what to. What to do after high school. It was not helpful because, like, psychotherapist is not a career advisor. Right.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But it just shows, like, how. How it was affecting me. And then I chose psychology kind of randomly. It just seemed like it's interesting it has this prestige attached to it. Um, so my parents were, like, okay with the choice. But it didn't feel like something, you know, boring. Like, it felt like, okay, I can just study it and, you know, learn something that will help me in my life even if I don't do it after.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, so that's how I started studying psychology. And then during uh, so at the end, so it was five years, like a, like a whole master degree. And then at the end we were uh, supposed to write a thesis, uh, and do research. And that's where, that's when I became really into uh, doing research. I, I was really like, I kind of discovered that it's really fascinating for me. And uh, I also really liked analyzing data and statistics. And that's when I decided to continue to do a PhD in psychology as well. Mhm. Because I feel like I still didn't know what I want to do with my life. And it was just something that was like, oh, this is interesting. And it seems like I'm good at it. Um, and also my master thesis, um, won a prize. So I was like, okay, this is a confirmation I'm good at it, so I might as well continue. And of course my parents were happy too because my dad, um, is a scientist as well. So it was like, okay, okay, you know, I had their approval. And then I was doing PhD, uh, and also it was my full time job. I was working in academia as a researcher and getting a salary. And after about two years I understood this is not what I want to do. Because of course, you know, I didn't know the reality of the job when I started. I only knew, oh, it feels so good to do this research. But I didn't know about all the other realities. Like, you know, a lot of your time is writing proposals to get, um, like financial, uh, means to do your research. And then you also have to teach students and that takes a lot of time and this and that. And then also like you are not really able to choose where you are going to live because getting a job as a scientist is really hard. And then you get this job like in the middle of nowhere and you just accept it. So it wasn't really, um, so once I started understanding these things I was like, wait a minute, I think this is maybe not a career for me.

Speaker B: Ah.

Speaker A: Um, and actually like this is so right now with my clients I always go through the process of checking the realities of careers that they are considering. It's like you cannot just base your choice on this rough idea of what it is. You actually have to go and interview people who are in these jobs and you have to ask them what, what's your day to day looks like? Um, what is the most annoying thing about your job? Like what is the most difficult? So you get these answers from real humans. And I know like, if I Had interviewed a scientist before taking this decision, which I did. I didn't even talk with my dad about it, you know? Yeah, like, I know if I asked, they would tell me, but I didn't ask. You know, I was just like, oh, fun research, great. So, yeah. So after two years, I was like, okay, I need to find something else. Um, and I. I kind of did, like, a break from doing my PhD. I started working in, like, marketing research because I could use my skills there. But then I got this, uh, in. What's the word for it? Um, internship. No, scholarship. Uh, I went. So I went to US for nine months, um, and it was just like, okay, I will give it another chance because I have this opportunity to go to the US So I just accepted. And I thought, maybe if I see how it's done somewhere else, maybe it will be different. But then it wasn't. So I still didn't want to continue in this line of work, but it made me finish my PhD. So I actually finished, uh, because of that. And then I was like, okay, what do I like to do? What do I like about this job, uh, that I have right now? And what I liked most was the data analysis part and the statistics part. So I thought, okay, I need to work in something that's more like numbers, you know, just like, analytical thinking. So I started thinking about being a data scientist, becoming a data scientist, um, because it felt like, you know, I have, like, the right prepositions, right skills to go into this career. But there was one piece missing, and it was programming, like, the data scientists. Like, I remember these graphs that were showing, like, what skills you need as a data scientist. And one of them was programming. So I was like, okay, let's try this. I've never tried this before. Um, fun fact, my mom is a programmer, but also. So I started learning with some online courses just to see what is it, what is it about? And I discovered I really liked it. It was like, oh, this is real fun, you know? Um, and it was, like, really, uh, quite easy for me, uh, to learn it. It was just coming naturally. And then at some point, I thought, okay, why data scientist if I just like programming? M. And also I learned that when you are a data scientist, you don't really do that much programming. So it's more about using the, like, tools that are already created, but you don't really program from scratch. And I thought, well, I do like programming, so maybe I could do that. And also at that time, it was kind of like a tech, um, like, everyone wanted to go into tech, it felt like this golden, um, mine. Like, you can just, like, earn whatever you want and you will never be without a job. That's what we thought at the time. Now the realities changed also. Yeah, but I was like, well, I would be so free, I could live wherever I want. Which was like, always, because I also forgot to mention, like, between this transition, I took a break and I went traveling to Southeast Asia for a few months. And this is where when I started dreaming about becoming a digital nomad, because I met so many people who just work and travel, and I was fascinated by it. So programming felt perfect because, uh, it would allow me to travel, to live anywhere I want. Um, and it was like this opposite of academic career in this sense.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And also good money and everything. So I just decided to do that. Uh, and I did a boot camp. And actually, my career transition was so fast. I think. I think it's crazy. It just took a few months. I started my boot camp in January, and in May, I already started my job. Wow, it was super fast. Yeah. Uh, it was like, a really good time to start. Um, and then also, like, after a year of working in Poland, I got a job in Barcelona, so I moved there. So it was like, all I wanted, all I ever dreamed of. And of course, you know, it was like, the working conditions were great. I never had to stay overtime. Like, it was like, uh, employees, markets, you know, so we were just, like, treated very well. Um, and so, like, in theory, everything was great and I did, like, programming, but I was slowly starting to be feeling that I want something more because, okay, like, I was enjoying when I had to, like, solve some programming problem. Great. But I was missing a purpose, like the sense of purpose, a sense of doing something meaningful. And I feel like this is something I was looking for always. I wanted to do something meaningful. I wanted to help people. I wanted to do some good in the world. And then I kind of forget about it. Like, I was just. I just, like, went into this programming path thinking that this is not important anymore because all these other things were. It seemed like a perfect path. So I just, like, discarded this idea of doing something meaningful. Um, but then it just came back. Like, I feel like if something's like, your core value, you cannot just. It's. You cannot just forget about it.

Speaker B: Yeah, it will show up.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so I started thinking, like, yeah, but I would like to do something, uh, good with my skills. I was looking for jobs in startups that are, you know, maybe like, helping the Environment or like preventing food waste and something like that. But the truth is it's very difficult to find this kind of job as a programmer. Um, and then also it usually pays less than other jobs. So I was a bit in this, uh, you know, golden handcuffs. Well, I didn't want to go down with my salary, uh, at least not much. Um, and yeah, and I was kind of stuck, you know, just like looking, looking at jobs from time to time, not finding anything. Um, and then I had this idea of helping people with career choices since a long time because as I told you, like already in high school, it was like a big problem for me. So when I was studying psychology, I had this idea that I could be a career advisor. But then I discarded it because in Poland it's like a minimum salary and I didn't want that for me. Um, but then it was come, it kept coming back. And also I had this mentoring opportunities or kind of coaching opportunities because I was talking with a lot of people who wanted to get into tech, who wanted to become programmers. Like, they were just reaching out and they were asking me for advice. And I loved these conversations. I just loved. The feeling that I had during these conversations was like, oh, my God, this is the best use of my time. Just sharing my experience and helping them make a decision and like showing them, you know, like, there are other options in tech. You don't have to be a programmer. You can be a UX designer, you can be this, you can be that. And I don't know, it just fulfilled me so much having these conversations that I started to have this idea of becoming a coach. And then I also did this coaching, uh, during COVID my company was. We had this like, development budget and I, I did a, uh, short coaching program. And um, one of my tasks was to send these questions to like 10 people that, uh, are close to me and ask them what are my strengths, what I'm good at? Yeah, And I remember they like the answers. They were a lot about this. Like, you inspire me. Um, I love getting advice from you. Like, you always have this good advice, good ideas. Um, I, uh, like discussing like, important decisions with you. And my coach was like, well, it sounds like you should become some kind of advisor. And that was also like one of the times when I was like, oh, maybe I should do that. So, yeah, there were like a lot of moments that were like, inspiring me to do that. Um, and yeah, I finally kind of got ready, uh, to try this out. Uh, and I just, yeah, I just took a leap. I just I just left my full time job as a programmer, um, with the idea of becoming a freelancer. So I have time to develop, uh, my coaching business on the side. Uh, so it was kind of risky. Um, but I'm like, I really admire people like you who have full time jobs and then they're like passion job on the side. I'm not able to do that. I'm just like, I think I'm not hardworking enough to do that or like not organized enough. Uh, I don't know. I just knew like, I won't do this if I have my full time job. Uh, and fortunately with programming, like I was able to, to get like a really good client. Uh, so this enables me to develop my coaching business. Uh, because yeah, I'm still like in transition. Like still my main source of income is programming.

Speaker B: Ah.

Speaker A: But I'm working on, on the coaching. I, uh, would say like half of my time. Yeah. Uh, yeah. So that's my story. It's like really complicated, really long.

Speaker B: Oh, but there are so many like words of wisdom that you shared and so many like what? I like, I don't know, gold nuggets in here. And I have so many questions for you as well. So the things that are really standing out and I want to, I'm going to jump back into a little bit earlier of what our conversation was, but you know, you, you were really struggling with what to decide to pick. And this was going back to high school. And it sounds like there was a lot of pressure from, you know, culturally and also from your family to figure it out. And I think a lot of us can relate with that, especially when we're younger. Like, you got to figure it out, you got to pick something or, you know, and so kind of easing into it and picking something that was like, you know, kind of familiar. You're like, okay, I like psychology, but also your dad was a scientist and so you kind of had this familiarity of like, oh, this is a stable thing that one, they will accept. And two, you're like, okay, I kind of, you know, I'm interested in it and it's going to be provide that stability and acceptance culturally and all these things. And then as you're going through it and then, you know, finishing it and realizing, oof, this does not check the boxes of how I want to live my life.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And one of the things that you said when you were trying to figure out what to do next was and I think this is really helpful for people listening and maybe this is something you do with Your clients. But when you said, I didn't know what I wanted to do, so I listed out the things that I do like about what I'm doing, you focused on that. And then exactly when you were leaning into, I like the data, I like the research part. And then you looked into, well, what would someone in this day to day have to do? And then programming showed up. Programming was not initially on your list, but it became part of it because you got curious. You got curious, you started to look into that. And I think that's a very actionable tip that anyone listening can take away. You may not like your job, but there are probably elements of it that you do enjoy. And so what can you take from there? What can you learn about that? Who can you ask? I love that too. Like, slide into someone's DMs that they're doing that job. Call them, text them, you know, message them on Instagram, whatever it is. Ask, uh, them what their day to day is like because you might learn something else. Especially like you found programming and the fact that your mom's a programmer and that it came easy to you. It sounds like, you know, maybe there was also some part and I could be wrong, but I'm just like hearing like a little bit of acceptance as well. When you hopped into that, because your mom's already like, that's what I know, which is so cool. Female programmers, let's go, let's do it. Um, and, and so when you jumped into that, that, I mean, I just thought that was really impressive. The other thing that stands out for me. Oh, you said the, the phrase golden handcuffs. And so this, I am fairly certain anyone listening can understand this because it does get tricky, especially there are companies and a lot of them being in tech, not all of them, but a lot of them in tech, especially at the time period you were talking about, really provided these cushy, you know, benefit focused jobs. They paid well, they gave you all kinds of, you know, fun things and made it so you didn't want to leave. And then not only didn't want to leave, but that it was so hard to leave because you can't get that anywhere else. So you did that. And then, you know, to break away from the golden handcuffs is something that I definitely would love to have you talk more about because you knew that you needed something with meaning and you feel like that was kind of lost along the way when you took this job that really provided a lot of, um, you know, support financially and maybe there was some like, camaraderie with teammates and living in a place where you wanted to live. So it checked a lot of boxes.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: That meaning part was really the golden thread through all the things. And so how did you let the golden handcuffs go? How did you get out of them and make that decision to jump into coaching? How did that. You know, at what point was that, like, okay, I'm ready to do it? Because you even said the word risky. You even said that, but you knew that staying was probably going to be harder than going. But a lot of us, I think, are so scared to take that leap. So how did you do it?

Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great question. So I had a lot of fears about money around money. Um, I don't know why, because, you know, like, I didn't really. I didn't grow up in like, uh. We weren't poor. Like, we were. Okay. We were not rich, but we were like. Okay. So I don't know why, but I had so many, um. I felt, like, really insecure about not having, like, a stable job. I think maybe because I've never had examples around me of entrepreneurs. Like, everyone I knew was, like, on a salary. So I think, like, that's. That's what was, uh, like that. What felt familiar. I didn't have these examples of people doing, like, more. More risky things.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, and I just had this even, like, catastrophic thoughts when I was considering leaving my job. Like, I literally imagined, like, I'm going to end up homeless, which is like. Which was like, completely, uh, like, not possible. You know, like, it wasn't realistic because then I was like, trying to. Okay, let's look at the reality. I have savings, I have parents, I have a brother. Like, all these people would support me. I could, like, move back in with my parents. But, like, in my head, it was just like, you know. So, yeah, I had a lot of fear around that. And also I had this dream of becoming a, uh, property owner. Because in Poland is like, very, very cultural. Like, that you have to buy an apartment and everyone has a mortgage, uh, apart from me. And, uh, I don't know, like, I feel like, culturally this was like, really installed, uh, in. In my head as this, like, life goal. Um, and I knew that if I leave my job, I will. Like, I mean, now I think I might still become a property owner, but, like, I just thought I, like, I will have to give up on that. And it felt also, like, really scary because it would be like, failing at life if I don't. You know, what helped me? Um, okay, so first of all like from practical approach, I think. Okay, so I was in like a really bad moment in my life. This the year where I quit my job. At the end. I, I was struggling a lot like also with my mental health. Uh, I had like a burnout at work and then it led to depression and then like I was like in a really, really bad moment. And I think this is what many uh, of us kind of need to experience to make a change. And I think definitely like this was a huge factor because I just knew like, I don't want to continue live that way. I need to change something. So this was like one important factor then. Uh, so I was in a long term relationship. Um, and you know, I feel like this was part of this, of me living this kind of like my imagined dream life was like, yeah, I have a partner, we have this apartment, uh, we have a dog and like we have good jobs and we are gonna buy like take a mortgage soon and buy something. Like this was, you know, I was living this like prescribed life and when this relationship ended and suddenly I was like, oh Jesus, like I don't have anything right now. I'm like, I have anything but freedom. So I just took a decision to, I still had my full time job and I took a decision to start traveling full time. Uh, because I had to move out anyway. So like instead of looking for a new place, I just decided I'm going to try this digital nomad thing. Yeah. And the first place I went to was Berlin. And I feel like Berlin. Like I have to thank Berlin for my career transition because I, it's people of Berlin who like helped me and inspired me because I don't know if you've ever been but it's just like really free city like that. Like I feel like people, there are many people in Berlin, they live this unusual lifestyles. They, they, they have like two different career paths. You know, they are working part time and then they are part time artists or whatever. Like there are so many people who, they just don't leave this um, mainstream path. And what happened was like I was meeting a lot of people and I was just talking with them and I was just getting like when one inspired but also encouraged because it was like, oh, if they do it, maybe I can too. Maybe it's possible because you just need these examples. Mhm. Like if everyone around you has a full time job then it feels really scary to not have one.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But suddenly you are like meeting people who live different lifestyle and it opens your eyes. So yeah, this really Helped me. And then I also started going on dates, uh, because I was like, okay, let's try, let's try this again. Let's go on dating apps. Um, and I was going on dates and I was talking with these guys who were, who had their own businesses and, and they were, they just like started to contradict all my fears and all my um, you know, the things I believed which because I had this thing stung, these beliefs stuck in my head that, oh, don't become an entre entrepreneur because you will have to work more and you will earn less. Like that's what I had in my head. That was every, that was what everyone around me was telling me always. And then I was uh, I went on a date with this guy who did exactly that and he told me the opposite. He was a programmer before. And then he decided to quit his full time job and become an entrepreneur. And he told me, literally I work half of the time that I used to work and I earned double the money. And I was like, oh, okay. So yeah, it's what really helps because it was not like one person, it was like m. It was like multiple people. And, and I, I quit my job that month. It was just. Yeah, I, I just got this query. I think it helped that I was like, I, I was not in my usual environment. So it kind of really, I just felt more free. I just felt more courageous to, to take this decision. Uh, yeah. And I just did it. I don't know. Um, I just, the fear just went away. Um, and also, yeah, I think what really helped as well was somehow this idea of helping people with career transition. It came back yet again and it just, I just got this clarity that this is it. I was just like, okay, now this time I think like this like fifth time that I'm thinking.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So I, I really started like really heavily researching what could it. What could this career look like. And I somehow uh, found like this that I could be a coach. So not just like a career advisor, which is more traditional role that you are like based in a school or in like um, you know, like um, institution basically. Mhm. And then I, I kind of found this possibility that I could be a coach. I could work online, I could work with people from around the world. I could still travel, I could work in English. And once like I, I found. Because I found this, um, this course for coaches. Yeah, that was focused on that and I just saw like the title and I was like, oh my God, like this is it. This is what I want to do. So I think getting the clarity helped me to take the leap because that's. And now this is what I tell my clients. Like, you need the clarity and once you have the clarity, then you are ready to take action. This is like what you need to stop being afraid. Basically. Oof.

Speaker B: The clarity is what you need to stop being afraid. And first of all, I would love to go to Berlin one day. Never been there, but it sounds like my kind of place. Um, I think that's so important that you call this out because it's not common. I mean, I'm in California. It's very uncommon for, uh, people to not have a salary job. And especially pretty much all my friends have it. Um, not my career flipper friends that have been on here, but like, majority of my friends that I know, family member, you know, that's just kind of how it goes. But to put yourself in an environment where people around you, where it's normalized, we're, uh, having a part time job and starting your own business or doing these things, it's normalized. And it does feel less scary because going back to what we were talking about earlier with like cultural pressures or family pressures, like it's all we know, or even asking our parents, you know, we were talking about that earlier, you know, if that's what we are, that's what we see, that's what we experience, that's all we know, that's all we think we can do. But then to open our world and, and also, gosh, I don't know if this resonates too, but to validate that feeling of wanting more and not feeling like it's wrong, because I can tell you, even to this day, like, I mean, I'm so, I'll be very transparent and I will share this with you and I'm so grateful because it took me two years to get a day job. I didn't think I wanted one anymore. And I, uh, I mean I'm grateful for what it provides, but it literally is the day job that pays the bills. Investor in my dreams, essentially. I don't want it forever. And maybe that's like career, you know, a problem to say on a, on a public show. But I'm gonna say I don't want that forever. However, I will say that it is like to give myself permission to feel that it's okay to not want to climb the career ladder, to not want a day job, to start my own things. The validation that that is okay, that that's huge. And you were around that you had People around you were going on dates and people were like, yeah, like, it's totally normal to have multiple things, to work in a way that aligns with your life, and to do things that help others and give you meaning and that that's perfectly okay. Like, you, you wrote yourself a permission slip manana. Like, you did it. You gave yourself that permission slip. And by doing that, you went into a role for coaching that gives others that permission slip.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I totally relate to this feeling of just like, okay, so being unhappy and it's your. And your. In your current situation and feeling guilty for it because, like, why am. Um, why it's not enough for me if it's enough for my colleagues. Like, why I'm not happy with a job that like, pays me well, that I have all these benefits that I had. I don't have to work overtime, that I get my vacation. And yeah, it's. I just felt guilty for wanting more. But in the end, I'm so happy that I listened to this voice because, you know, I was trying to silence it for a long time. Yeah, I think all of us do. Like, no one is making a decision to change careers. Like, the first time they have this fault. It's like you are letting it like, you know, just like be in the back of your head for like years, come back and then something usually, like, you really need to have sort of a crisis, like I had, for example, to really give it, um, give yourself self permission. Okay. Maybe this is because I'm like, I'm really not happy and I really want more. And then once you permit yourself to want more, like, for me. Oh my God. When like the time, the last year has been like the first time in my life where I just felt like, so energized, so motivated because like, I finally do something that, that is really important for me, that I really believe in, that I really. It's not because of like, external motivation. It's internal. I just want to wake up and, and work. Like, I never felt like this before. Or, you know, just like, you don't. Like, you're not afraid of Mondays. You are waiting for Monday. Um, I love this and I. Oh my God, I want this for everyone, you know?

Speaker B: Yes, exactly. That's so well said. And I think that guilt part that you mentioned is really important. It's so easy to lean into what's wrong with me for wanting more and feeling guilty for that or feeling like you're crazy. I mean, I'll be very honest. After I got laid off from my job and then couldn't find a new one and started to do furniture restoration and thinking, oh, my gosh, where has this been my whole life? This is what I want to do. Um, I actually put myself into therapy because I thought that I had lost my mind. Who goes from the stable tech world to that consistent, stable paycheck to wanting to work in the garage covered in sawdust and paint? And suddenly I was like, there's something so wrong with me. And so I was working with the therapist, and it's like, actually, there's nothing wrong with you. There is nothing. You're just really scared. And it's change. And change can be tricky when it is so outside of what you know and what you have experienced and.

Speaker A: Yeah, but, you know, like, I feel like you touched a really important point, which is what is sanity? It's like this. It's like what society wants you to do. Right. Like, this is what, you know, like the average. Uh, uh, it's like. Yeah. So you. You were thinking, like, something wrong with you and you need a therapy because you were happy with a choice that was not this, what society thinks is the best choice.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Um, right. Well, like, you know, like, doing this kind of transition requires a lot of courage, and this is the courage to break away from what society tells you that you should do.

Speaker B: Yeah. And accepting that exactly as it is. Giving yourself permission to take a different path.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I just think, like, the work that you're doing with clients to help them get that light bulb moment and figure out, you know, have that clarity around. Okay, what is it? And then having a hand to hold.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: While they take those early steps, that's the hardest part. But once they get going, it's like an avalanche. It's like all, uh, right, you're off. You're off to the races. Um, but those initial things are so important. And the work you're doing because you followed this for yourself is such a gift that you bring to the world manana. This has been an amazing conversation. I'm just, like, so lit up. And it's just. I mean, you know, let's just cut to the chase. Like, how can people work with you? How can they figure out these clarity moments, these light bulb moments, knowing that you've gone through it yourself and where can they find you?

Speaker A: Sure. So I'm mainly on Instagram, so my Instagram handle is career change guide, and that's how you can find me. And I put there, like, a lot of tips as well. So, you know, even if you don't want to be my client. Like just go there and check out um, the videos. Uh, because I give tips how to, how you can also do some exercises yourself to get uh, some clarity. And then how I work with my clients is one on one coaching. And there are two parts. So the, the first part which is super important, uh, it's getting the clarity. So I have like the whole process that takes you from uh, uh, well, basically what we discussed before. So like what you like about your current job. Like this is all, this is actually the where I start working with my clients. So we analyze all the past experiences, like what did you enjoy, what you want to do more of and what you want to leave behind. So this is super important. And then we go, uh, we analyze um, strengths so that like that we choose top skills. Uh, that's very important as well because um, you know, it's not like you will start from scratch. You have a lot of skills and some of these skills can be used in your uh, next job. And then we also analyze areas of interests. So like what, you know, like maybe you want to work in like environment protection or maybe. Yeah, so like just like also choosing your top in the. Maybe with animals, maybe with kids. Um, and then based on that we do this huge brainstorming exercise where we generate like all possible ideas for what my client could do in the future. And then we also include other people. I think this is really important. We include like whoever they want to include. They add ideas as well. And then from there we start narrowing down. So based on, you know, the realities of the job. Like you know, maybe you want to earn a certain salary. So maybe this is um, this is will not pay enough and maybe this requires going back to university and you don't want that. So we like start to discard options. And also we do this um, value exercise where we uh, personal values. So also based on that we are like choosing uh, and discarding options. And then at the end we are left with maybe five choices and we start doing research about them. Uh, and also the interviews that I mentioned before. And then people choose one or sometimes they choose two jobs that they want to combine. Um, so that's the first part, getting the clarity. And in my experience it takes about three months. Um, it could be faster, but the reality is that people have other commitments. And you know, getting this interview scheduled and talking with people, it takes time. M. And then there are usually like holidays in the way or something. So it usually takes three months. And then the next three months because what I usually recommend is six months program. The next three months is uh, actually putting it into action. So okay, how can I get from where I am now to where I want to be and then like just making an action plan and putting in into steps and you know, working on your cv, preparing for the interviews. All the practical part.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Yeah. So this is like the program that I offer right now and for some people, you know, because of course it's scary to commit to six months. So with some people we do three months and then if they want to continue, then they, they can do the second part. Um, yeah, so if you want to work with me or even have a chat, because I offer like, you know, like a exploratory, um, conversation. So you can just book it also through my Instagram. Um, and you can also find me on LinkedIn with my name and surname, which is a bit difficult.

Speaker B: Can you say it for us just so we know?

Speaker A: Yeah, so it's Manana Yavorska. Uh, so yeah, you can, you can find me on LinkedIn as well. And yeah, welcome to connect with me. Um, and yeah, that's it. I really enjoyed this conversation and I would like, I feel like we could talk for hours.

Speaker B: Very much feel like we could. There are definitely so many more questions that I would want to ask, but I don't know, let's make it a goal. One day we have coffee together in Berlin. So perfect. And we'll just talk for hours. Monona, thank you so, so much for being here today. I appreciate you. So many great pieces of advice for us, uh, career Flippers. Thank you so much.

Speaker A: Thank you for inviting me. I really enjoyed it and I really hope it, uh, will help someone and inspire, uh, someone to make a career change.

Speaker B: Thanks for hanging out with me and Manana on this episode of the Career Flipper podcast. You'll find all the ways to connect with Manana in the show notes. And if this conversation lit even the tiniest spark or made you feel a little less like you're out here all alone, the best way to keep this energy going is to hit subscribe, drop a review of what you thought and send this episode to a friend who's also mid career. Plot twist. That's how we grow this messy, magical little corner of our flipping community. At the end of the day, here's what I want you to remember. You're not behind, you're not broken, and you are definitely not too late. Starting again is always on the table. That first tiny step might feel terrifying. You might ugly cry through it. But it could be the step that will change everything. So go on, take that first tiny step. Step. Even if it's messy. Especially if it's messy. Because really, what's the best that could happen?