From the film industry to professional dog walker, meet Justin Cohen

When I first did it, of course, it was just a way to make some money while I was figuring out what was next. Right. But immediately I felt like, wow. Yeah. My mental health feels incredible. I'm sleeping well. Yeah. I'm getting like— I was off the jump, probably getting 20,000 to 30,000 steps in a day. Yeah. And Hey friend, welcome back to The Career Flipper. If you've been waiting for a sign to stop chasing the shoulds and start chasing what actually lights you up, this is it. This podcast is your permission slip to rewrite your story one imperfect, brave, slightly unhinged step at a time. I'm Jenny Dempsey, furniture flipper, podcast host, and proud creator of San Diego Furniture Flipper. After getting laid off, I rebuilt my career piece by piece literally, sanding, painting, and giving forgotten junky furniture a second chance. These days I've got a great day job, aka the investor in my dreams, while I keep growing my business on the side and cheering all of you on doing your own thing at the same time. So there I was, deep in some very important dog video research one day, sitting on the couch and just taking a breather, and I stumbled across a reel of some happy pups trotting through Los Angeles. But it wasn't just about the dogs in the video. Okay, maybe mostly about the dogs because I love dogs, but, but it was about the guy who was walking the dogs who was talking about how he completely flipped his career and life. So naturally, I slid into his DMs and I said, "Hi, your story is amazing. Please come on my little podcast." And For whatever reason, he said yes. So today you get to meet Justin Cohen of Justin Walks Dogs in Los Angeles, California. He moved cross-country from Connecticut chasing his film industry dreams, only to trade office burnout and Sunday scaries for long walks with dogs and slobbery smiles. We talk about how he saved up for a leap of faith took a trip that changed everything, and discovered that loving something, like music and movies, doesn't always mean you have to work in it. Justin shares how shifting from spreadsheets to sidewalks didn't just change his career, it transformed his health and happiness. He went from sleepless nights and anxiety to walking 25,000 steps a day, feeling grounded, clear-headed, and genuinely alive again. This episode is about trusting yourself enough to try, even when the plan doesn't make sense yet, when you're not even sure what the plan is. It's about finding meaning in unexpected places, choosing peace over prestige, and remembering that sometimes the best path forward has paw prints on it and dog barking in the background. If you've been craving more freedom, more joy, or just a career that feels a little more you, this episode will resonate. Let's leash up and get into the episode now with Justin. So one day I was just scrolling on like Instagram, just kind of, I don't know, you get targeted with different reels. And there was this one reel popped up, there was a bunch of dogs, and of course I just gravitated towards it. But as I was listening to the, the story being told in this reel, I realized, oh my gosh, this guy's a career flipper. And of course, you know, me and all of my like awkward glory just slides right into the DMs. I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. Your story is incredible. How, you know, I would love to talk with you on my, my little podcast. And sometimes people answer, sometimes people don't, but Justin, you answered. Thank you for answering. Welcome to the Career Flipper. Hello. Hello. Hello. Thanks for having me. Oh my gosh. Tell everybody who you are, where you are in the world, and what you're doing right now. So my name is Justin Cohen. I am in Los Angeles, California. So not, not too far from Jenny over here. And I am— I have my own dog walking and pet sitting business here in LA. That's amazing. It's amazing. And watching you with all of your stories on Instagram and like just how you're doing this. It's impressive because you didn't start out doing this. Like, this isn't what you have always been doing. You kind of found your way into it. But how did this happen? Where, like, where did this start, Justin? Like, yeah. So funny enough, I will actually start with the fact I didn't even have my own dog growing up with my family, which a lot of people are like mind blown by that I know out here now that I've been doing this. But yeah. No. So I eventually, like, the first reason that I came out to Los Angeles was I wanted to be like many before me in the film industry. Okay. So I went to, you know, in college, I have a degree in film and television. That's like what I came out to do. And I got out here back in 2012. Where were you from originally? I'm originally from Connecticut. Connecticut. Okay. So East Coast coming cross-country to LA. You study film and you're out here. Out here. And I studied film on the East Coast, so I was totally an East Coast guy, like totally Northeast. Drove out here on a whim at, you know, the very end of 2011 and got out here, worked on a couple of film sets, ended up landing a job, actually not either in kind of the areas of expertise that I had studied, but It was at a film distribution company. So essentially what I did was I would help put the movies into the movie theater. So once they were already finished, yeah, I would like, I would go to film festivals, see these movies, like see if the company that I worked at wanted to acquire them and then help put them into the movie theater. For anyone that like doesn't understand, how that whole part of the business works. And so it was so interesting because that job, I was there for about 4 years, could not have had 2 better bosses, the 2 people that ran the company. And so it wasn't like it was a bad, you know, a bad work culture or anything like that. It was just You know, you're sitting in an office 9 to 5 or more every day. You're getting paid. I think my first year I was paid like $25,000. Like, it was so— you can barely— I mean, think when you think about how much things cost now, like, how could anyone live off that amount of money? Yeah. And it was just, it was just the classic, like what maybe other people feel too, like soul-crushing. What am I doing with my life? Yeah, I'm typing things into a spreadsheet for most of the day. Yeah, there's sometimes the perks of going to the film festival or, you know, doing something that's fun or cool, but it was mainly just very very soul-crushing. And I just always thought there was going to be more to life than that. So pretty much I did that. And about 3 years in, I think I was just at my wit's end and I said to myself, all right, with the little money you are making, save every penny that you have. And it wasn't at the time that I was going to change careers. I said, I'm going to go on this big, like, Eat, Pray, Love trip, okay? And I'm going to save every penny I have. I'm going to go to Japan and Southeast Asia, and that's going to change everything. I'm going to figure out what I really want to do. I'm going to come back, maybe we'll switch it up. Anyways, I, I stuck to those guns. I did that. Yeah. And I went to Japan for a month and then I was supposed to go to Southeast Asia for 3+ months with the money I had saved. Yeah. And one weekend I got attacked by a rat in Bangkok, Thailand. Wait, what? Yes. You said a rat? A rat. My gosh, that's terrifying. It was. It is one of the most laughed about things in my friend group to this day. This happened a decade ago, 2015. I was just walking into dinner and a rat scurried across the road, ran into my leg and just went to town on my leg, broke like— went through like a pair of pants, broke skin. And I find myself in the hospital needing to get rabies treatment. Yeah. So needless to say, all was okay. I didn't get rabies because if you get rabies, there's a 0% chance that you live. Yeah. But after that I said, you know what, I think I'm going to go home for a bit. And yeah, but so I had this. I was fortunate in that I had this. What I had saved up, I still had a good amount of it because I cut the trip 3 months short. Yeah. So when I got back to LA, I regrouped. I thought, what do I want to do? And that's when I was just walking around near my apartment one day and saw a flyer for, at the time, this brand new company called WAG, which I don't know. Have you heard of WAG? Yes, I was a WAG walker briefly when I got laid off. Yeah. You're kidding me. Yes, yes. I signed up for WAG. However, the one thing that stopped me was there was a, I had a dog walk where you couldn't see like the code, the gate code after you already took the dog out. So I should have screenshotted it, but I didn't know 'cause I was a new walker and there was no instruction. And I remember taking this cute dog for a walk. I was like, I love this. Getting back, oh, where do I get the gate code? And like, it was terrible. And trying to contact support was pointless. The person, the dog owner wasn't answering. And I was like, I don't have this. It ends up being an hour waiting for someone to come open the gate. And I was like, maybe this isn't for me. But I, yes, I'm very familiar with WAG. It is, besides my personal experience, it was, it's great. It's great. It's such a great tool, I think, for anyone that wants to do something like this, that anyone that's interested in pet care, working with dogs, Yeah, because it's such an easy point of entry. I think it was, you know, you do, they do a background check on you and other than that you're pretty much in. And it's, I know back then they used to advertise it as the Uber of dog walking. Yeah. And that's pretty accurate. It's like they match you with clients that you can walk or, you know, sit their dogs. And of course, like, they're, they're one of the big ones. And then Rover is like the other big one. I was always a WAG guy, but both are great. Um, but yeah, so pretty much I signed up for WAG. It was in its infancy, so I was very fortunate in that when I kind of had to do my onboarding process, they actually ended up bringing me eventually to the corporate office in LA. So I like met the people that actually built the platform. Amazing. And I mean, this is going to be crazy, but one of those people ended up becoming my wife. So, yeah. Oh my gosh. That's the best. Yeah. Wow. Menschlichkeit. I love that. Yeah. One of my first dog walks ever was she who worked at WAG at the time asked me to walk her, at the time, two golden retrievers. Okay. Started and nothing. There was no dating for about a year, but I just— I'm throwing that in there. Yeah. Dog walking, you know, has given me a couple of things in life. I love it. But I started walking dogs through WAG and immediately I thought, wow, I feel so much better than I did at my office job because I can't tell you I didn't, like, dive too deep into it, but at that job, it was like I even had some of my best friend from growing up in Connecticut, who I lived with in LA. We actually worked at this, like, 12-person company together. Yeah. And even having him there, I still was miserable. So it was like, yeah, my mental health spiraled. I don't, you know, I'll go as deep as you want, Jenny, but I started going to therapy because of my job and just having trouble sleeping, anxiety stuff. So dog walking, when I first did it, of course, it was just a way to make some money while I was figuring out what was next. Right. But immediately I felt like, wow. Yeah. My mental health feels incredible. I'm sleeping well. Yeah. I'm getting like, I was off the jump, probably getting 20,000 to 30,000 steps in a day. Yeah. And so kind of my first, I will admit, like right at first I didn't think, oh, how do I do this? Like, how do I do this long-term, full-time? I just thought this is great right now. This is going to be my thing at this moment. Yeah. Let me dive in. And then I just started walking dogs 24/7. And literally back then in 2016, you could kind of, especially because some of us in LA were going into the corporate office at times, you could see who were the top walkers. And I was walking so much, I was literally the number one dog walker on the app. Oh my God. So it was like, yes. So I was like, all right, let's go. Like, let's keep doing this. And, but the hours were insane at first, I have to admit. Like, I was doing it from probably like 8:00 AM to like 8 or 9:00 PM at night. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Because that's a lot. Like, you're, you went, I'm going to backtrack for just one second because I have a couple questions along the way. Because you were at that job and while, you know, you had a friend there and your bosses were great, like, you knew it wasn't where you were supposed to be. It was so soul-crushing. You made— you were intentionally saved up money so you could leave that job and go on this trip and kind of figure things out, like what, what would bring meaning. And it sounds like you're very much that type of, like, you seek meaning in what you do. You don't want this soul-crushing feeling. But I guess, like, if I— if we can kind of take— go back to that moment where you put in your notice to leave that job, uh, where you're like, hey, I'm going on this trip, I put in this notice, Can you talk a little bit about what that was like? Like, how did you do it? Did you give it 2 weeks? Did you just be like, no, I'm leaving? Or like, were you terrified? Or did it feel like the right thing? Can we kind of talk about that just a little bit before we jump in? Because then I have another question for you about when you get back from the trip. But I'm so curious about this because I think a lot of us fear that moment of like, okay, I'm going to put in that note. Like, am I making the right decision? Am I not? Like, is this crazy? Like, Can you just talk about what was going on at that time in your head, but also how did you do it? Definitely. Yes. So a bit of it was serendipitous, and I think I was kind of lucky in that. I mean, not this whole situation, but I think you'll see why I say that when I get to the point. My two bosses, they were both like mentors to me at that job. And even though I did not love the job itself, Yeah, they were great people that I felt like set me up for success even to like where I am today. And one of them passed away, which was, was tough. And she was the one that was kind of like my direct boss. So through kind of that process of, you know, everyone like kind of grieving and figuring out what was next, I, I think everyone at the company knew that my heart wasn't in it anymore because she was like closest with me. Yeah. And so the other, the other boss was trying to sell off the company. Ah, okay. He got an offer, and as the, you know, as the person that was coming in to buy out the company, he kind of surveyed everyone that was working there. And the truth is, again, I was not my best for the 2 to 3 months leading up to this. And so my other boss, who again, fantastic, uh, he called me into his office and he said, look, he said, the guy that wants to buy the company, doesn't want to keep you on. And he said, but he said, I'm not going to let that happen if you want to be here. And so he's like, if you want to be here, I'm not doing the deal unless you stay, unless you are part of the deal. He said, but if you don't want to be here, let me know, because he's like, part of me feels like this isn't where your heart is anymore. And I, and I was honest and I just said, you know what? I want you to get the deal. Take the deal. I'm walking away. Yeah. And so he gave me like, you know, they gave me a little severance package and yeah, I walked away, but it like almost gave me the lifeline out because I'd already been saving up the money with the plan to do this trip. Yeah. And so the truth was I was going to be leaving in the next few months anyway. Yeah. But it just gave me that easy— it honestly made it easy for me. And I'm grateful for that because otherwise I think it would have been a lot more difficult and probably anxiety invoking. But I look at that as kind of a little parting gift that I was given in the sense of it kind of just allowed me to do the thing that was going to let my other boss, who I'm still friends with to this day, do the right thing for him. And sell the company and not deal with like a struggle to try to keep me on there. Right, right. Yeah. No, that does sound like it's just like all the ducks lined up in the right row. Like it just all kind of fell together in the way. I mean, terrible that you lost your colleague and friend and I'm just so sorry about that. And it's like, thank you. They— yeah, I can't even imagine. Like, and for someone that you look up to as a mentor, And then all of these big life-changing things start to happen. And then you go on this trip and you have adventures, but also you— crazy. So then there's this. So my next question is, Justin, is you get back from this trip after, I mean, the most wildest experience. And one, when you looked at the flyer for dogs, you didn't have dogs growing up and you just got attacked by a rat. How did you— I feel okay being around animals. So, okay, so I should clarify. So I grew up with cats, which is maybe even funnier, but I grew up with cats. And as I'd say over the past, what was that, 2015 going into 2016? Yeah. Probably in the past like 5, 6 years prior to that, I had become a very big fan of dogs. I'd always liked dogs, but I had, like, I had dated a girl that had, like, this dog that I loved. One of our best friends in LA, um, had this, this dog that I would take care of usually around, like, Thanksgiving time if I would stick around. So I was— I had kind of jumped on the dog train. Okay. Um, but I just had not had one myself yet. Yeah. So I saw the flyer. Yeah, the rat, you know. That damn rat. Damn. Had to ruin everything. But I— no, I saw the flyer and I thought, look, I need to make money. And this looks interesting. I love— I really like dogs. Yeah. So let's see what the deal is. And it was cool. I don't know if when you did it, they still were doing this, but back then you would go even not into the office, you'd like meet up with other prospective walkers. With someone that would come from the corporate office to like essentially teach you how to put on all the different like harness types and everything, which was really cool. Obviously for someone that had never really dog walked, it was very helpful because there's a lot of different harnesses and ways you can walk a dog. So, oh my gosh. Well, I love that. I, This was in 2022, 2023 when I did. Okay. Recent. And I wish I would've had an experience like that 'cause I feel like I grew up with animals. I grew up on an animal rescue. I have volunteered with dog rescues. I have dog, I just, I love dogs and I would've loved to have more of that hands-on. But honestly, even trying to contact Wag support to get help with certain things on my account, I couldn't even get ahold of anybody. So that was honestly the biggest driver for me. My customer, my career before I got laid off was all customer experience. And so I'm very focused on that. And if a business does not support me as, and I see myself technically as a customer working for them. I just, yeah, unfortunately I didn't have that same experience, but that is so cool to have that hands-on training and knowledge because there is a thing you're walking into someone's home. The dog is protective of that. The harnesses, You know, just knowing behaviors and like, put your hands here, let them smell. Like, there's so many things you need to know about dog behavior too. And to kind of have someone there to be like, here's how you, you know, the different ones, like, that's cool. But so you had this experience, you had this knowledge and this hands-on in a very like crucial pin or, you know, pivotal moment for you in your career. And it sounds like it just like, I mean, you noticed how your health was improving, your, your emotional, mental, spiritual, all the health. And so you didn't have that crushing feeling, and you're walking dogs 24 hours a day, like going nonstop. So how did this kind of all shift for you? Like, when did you know it was too much walking? When did you know that this was the thing you did actually want to do though? Like, So, okay, I would say, and by the way, I just want to say to your experience with Wag, sadly, I mean, yeah, too many companies as they get big, but the original founders of the app, they sold it in like, it was 2019 or 2020. And I've heard from so many people that the app and the customer service and everything has just plummeted and gone downhill since. So it's a shame. It's a shame. But yeah, it is. But no, I will say on my journey, so I'm dog walking like 12 hours a day. I think, okay, a couple of things I wanted to touch on. Yeah. And maybe you can relate. Maybe some people listening can relate. You know that feeling when you wake up in the morning and you just are like, oh no, like, I've got to go to work or I've got to go to the office. The Sunday scaries, obviously. I was thinking to myself when I started dog walking and I'm a few months in, I go, wow, I haven't woken up one morning with that feeling. I have not. I don't even— I haven't even had the Sunday scaries. And I wasn't working weekends at all back then with the dog walking. But I thought, it's— I just feel normal. Like every day is just another day. This is incredible. I've never felt this way about a job. So that, of course, was one thought of, I think I'm doing something right at the moment, for me at least. And I think where it shifted and I decided that I wanted to do this more long-term was— so when I was first dog walking, I, in my own head, thought I still wanted to be in entertainment. So even though I had left the film industry, a lot of the people in my life, if you ever met them, would tell you my real passion is music. And I— everyone was like, you have to be in music. Like, how could you not work in music? So in my head, I was thinking, okay, like, let me take a look, like, at the music industry, see what I could do. So while I was dog walking, walking. In my spare time, which was very little, I was, I was trying to maybe figure something out in the music industry. One of my best friends is like a very talented songwriter. So he had started a band and he was, he was having me manage it in a sense. Um, and so I was just like, again, very not like crazy levels or anything, but I was helping them book shows and you know, book meetings with labels and stuff like that. So it was— that was exciting for me. But I think I realized about a year into that, that even, even loving music and when you love these mediums, again, I'm a big music lover, I'm a film and TV lover. Working in them for some people isn't the same joy as having a passion for the material itself. And I think that sometimes that was like kind of a big realization for me that I think a lot of people, that can take a while to understand. And for some people it's different. Some people, they love working in it and the passion goes hand in hand. Yeah, but for me it wasn't. It was, oh wait, I can love this thing. I can consume music, I can go to concerts all the time, but I could not want to work in this industry. Yeah. It kind of was taking a little bit of the magic away from it for me, to be honest. And so I think I thought, well, look, I feel great walking dogs. Like, why? You know, I think there's this preconceived notion to some degree that you can't really do that as a full-time job. I think that's how I felt. I don't know if I'm jumping around too much right now with thoughts, but I found that in those, the first year or two, let's call them 2016 and '17, when people would ask me what I did, I would really minimize the dog, like talking about the dog walking. I'd say, oh yeah, like I'm, you know, I'm managing my friend's band and I'm walking dogs to make some money right now. And I realized I was always feeling kind of embarrassed talking about the dog walking. And even when, you know, my parents are very supportive, which I'm grateful for, but even talking to them, like sometimes I think they, I would get that feeling of, you know, did our son really go to college and get this degree just to like walk dogs for the rest of his life? And, and maybe they didn't think that at all, by the way, but So that part of it was weighing on me, but I just got to a point where I said, I feel great. I'm making more money than I ever made in the film industry. And why don't I ride this out and try to see if I can actually grow it into something and step away from, you know, the WAG app, which again, I am very grateful to WAG, Yeah. Because they helped me start out, but I do have to just be honest and like, they were taking 40% of what you made. So the splits are insane. I mean, so the price they're advertising to a client, the dog walker's only making 60% of that, which it's, it's, let's put it this way. It made sense why I was working like 12 hours a day. Mm-hmm. Because that's what I needed to do to have a full-time income. Yeah. And so in 2018, I said, I have so many clients on Wag, I'm going to start talking to them all. Yeah. See if they'll go off the app. And I'm going to try to build a, you know, very just small, modest little business from that where off the jump I should about double what I'm making, given that Wag was taking almost half of it. Right. So I did that. Pretty much every single person said, yeah, of course, let's take it off the app. I mean, you've— it was people that I've been walking their dogs for anywhere from 6 months to 2 years. So, um, I did that and I'll be honest, there was— it was a bit of an aimless approach at first. So I think that a lot of people now and what I know now, I would have been a lot more like targeted in what I was doing. But at the time I just thought, all right, I took everyone off the app. I'm making about double what I was making. I'll get new clients through word of mouth. And I kind of just coasted on that until, uh, that was later 2018. And then I pretty much just did that until COVID hit. In March of 2020, which that was a, that was a tough bump in the road for me as someone that was making a living off of walking dogs primarily when people were at work. Right. So yeah, when that shut down, that was a little bit tough, but I was very fortunate to have about 4 or 5 clients that had the money to keep me on. So they said, well, we don't— we said, we don't want to lose you as our dog walker. So we're going to keep you afloat to get you through the months when no one else is having a walker. And so thank you to those like 4 or 5 people. Wow. Okay. There's a lot of— this story, thank you for being so open and honest. First of all, I just— I appreciate it. A couple things stand out and I'm going to jump around now. So I'm I apologize a bit, but I think one of the first things that you said just a bit ago was about, let's talk about music, for example. Music is something you're passionate about. You love concerts, you love music. I'm curious, what kind of music? What is your favorite kind of music? I'd say I love both rock and electronic. Okay. So my first love is all things rock. So my favorite band ever is Blink-182. Okay. Yes. Yeah. They're San Diego's favorite band. Yeah. San Diego. But I, so I love everything from that spectrum. Like Incubus, 311, Dave Matthews Band. But then electronic kind of became my love as I got a little bit older and that's been a big part of my life. So. So I don't know. I mean, if anyone's listening, big Chris Lake, Lane 8, Nora Impure. But yeah, so, and I'm a big music festival guy. So like since like 2013, I've gone to Coachella every year. And yeah, they're just like my concerts are my happy place where I feel like I can just forget about the rest of the world and just for those few hours, kind of be free, if that makes sense. Yes, that makes total sense. And I knew all the rock artists, love Blink-182, love all the— I didn't know any of the electronic, but I'll be honest. But I think what you bring up here, Justin, and the reason that I wanted like some more context about the kind— I know it was a random question to throw at you, but like, I feel like we have these things, you know, um, music, or, you know, everyone had like— some people do ceramic, you know, who knows what it is. Like, there's painting and Sometimes we feel like— there's that quote, and I personally, I personally don't believe in this quote, but I'm going to say it because maybe it'll resonate. Maybe you're not in the same boat either, just based off of what you said. But the quote that says, if you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your whole life, you know, that type of thing. I don't believe that's true because I think even the things that you do love, there is work involved. And I think the reason why I bring this all up to tie up my random thoughts here, but like we are taught, like, to, you know, go into a job that you love. And let's say you loved music, but you knew music became more of a personal love as opposed to the job love. And I think sometimes, like, I feel this way with furniture restoration. I love it. And then I wonder, I'm like, could I do it full-time? Would I love it the same way? And there's questions. Everyone has these things. It's like, how do you know that the thing you love is not necessarily for your job, but it becomes something else personal about your life? And so when you were kind of having those feelings, you know, you were helping your friend's band and you're managing, finding gigs, and you're kind of in it. What was going through your mind or your heart or, you know, whatever was it there, that soul-crushing feeling? Like, what did you feel to kind of point you in the direction of like, ooh, you do love this, but you love it because it's so personal to take you out of, you know, you escape from the world. Like, it becomes like something else for you. I guess, how did you— how are you able to differentiate between something you love being for work and something you love being for personal? Like, does that kind of make sense? Yeah, I think it does. I think with— I think for me, at least in that specific experience, what it was, was even though on some level I was finally getting to do certain things that I found very exciting. Like, even I'm going to actually use the Blink-182 love to tell you, with the band I was with, one of the members was friendly with Travis Barker, the drummer of Blink-182. Yeah. And we got to record an EP at his recording studio, and I got to, like, meet him and stuff. And it was— I mean, for me, that's like a dream, literal dream come true stuff. Yeah. And so like those experiences, incredible. But then it was just— I will— I have such conflicted feelings on the question you just asked because on the one hand, yeah, if the band was taking off, maybe I would have said something different. Like maybe then I would have said, okay, like I'm going to be making a full-time income from this. Yeah, this is interesting. But then at the same time, I do feel as if the differentiator— to answer the initial question you had— was that even though I was having some experiences that were, that were truly mind-blowing and super fun, I wasn't doing it in the way that felt like genuine to me in, in that Even when I was, for instance, like introduced to Travis Barker, I was introduced as like the band's manager. And it was just like, this might come off as weird, but it didn't feel good to be introduced that way because I was kind of looked at as like the suit of like the, the hang. And it was like, well, no, I'm just like an actual like music lover that is like geeking out about this entire experience. And I kind of like being that person more so than like the business guy behind it all. And I saw some— again, not nearly as much as other people that have been more into this industry, but I got to see like a few of the negatives that you hear about, about the behind the scenes of it all and And it is all a business, honestly. And so it's just— I think I thought to myself, this is my safe space, my special place. If I keep going down this road, I think it's— it's gone. I'm going to become jaded and it's going to be one of those things where it's more just this is the workplace now. And I was— I was a little scared to lose the magic because with film, I felt like for a point in time, brief, but I felt like I did lose the magic a little bit where my other probably special place to go to kind of relax is probably the movie theater. And so I think, I don't know, very long way of answering your question. I think what I'm hearing is that it really just— you knew because almost in a way you had a similar experience when you were working, when you moved to LA and you had that first job of like you're in the film industry. Film industry. But wait, it kind of killed that magic, um, in a way. But you still had— you still loved watching movies, you still love doing things. And it sounds very, uh, similar. And so you just kind of had— at least what I'm hearing, and correct me if I'm wrong— but it just became something where you're like, this— the magic of these experiences, of what music or film bring to me, mean more on a personal level than they do on the day-to-day work level that you want to be, you know, the guy in the audience, not necessarily the guy backstage. And yes, I feel like, yeah, right. It does. I'd rather— I'd rather be the guy backstage because I happened to like get brought back there by a friend that works in the industry. And then I get to have like that band artist exchange. Yeah, rather than be the guy that's back there because I'm working there and kind of have to fake the fact that I'm not like a big fan just to play the game of the music biz guy. And yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. It's that I wanted to protect the things that are special to me. And I realized that working in them wasn't exactly the dream to me that I thought it was. And that I'd prefer to keep it that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, I think that's, that's a really important thing that sometimes you don't know until you are in it and then you're like, oh wait, I remember when I was in high school, I wanted to be an actress. That was my thing. And I, and I did extra work. So I grew up in like Riverside County. My mom would drive us to LA. We do, you know, extra work on set. Seeing the TV and movies and all this stuff. And I remember like thinking, this isn't what it seems like in my dreams. Even watching, you know, the actors, the main actors and stuff, and just like, that doesn't look so fancy. Like it doesn't look like how my dreams thought it. And I was like, this isn't as exciting as I thought. And so it kind of became a thing. Well, how can I fit acting into my life in other ways? And so it kind of became ways where it's just, this is fun. This is what I want to. Like how I wanna experience it as opposed to it being the job. And so it kind of, it's just, I think it's interesting. You just don't know until you're in it. And then you just have these feelings where it's like either it makes sense or it doesn't. And you kind of were able to break it down that way. And with dog walking, you know, now, you know, back to your story as I completely derailed everything, but like, don't ever worry. I loved it. I loved it. Don't ever worry about long-winded answers 'cause my long-winded questions will, but basically, Basically, you know, COVID hit and your 4 to 5 clients kept you afloat. You had built that loyalty and that trust with them. And when COVID kind of, you know, everyone says it differently, ended or phased out, just kind of, you know, as life kind of resumed. And what started to happen for you? Like, did people come back? Did you find new clients? Like, how did it work when people were starting to go back into, you know, the office place again? Yeah. So yeah, I would say all my clients that I had had beforehand, that the ones that were not there through those months, through that, like it was probably about a year before, like some people started really going back to the office, they came back. And then, then things became a little bit more deliberate on my end in the sense of I'd had so much time to kind of be at home, think about a lot of things. And so I started crazy. It was crazy to me. I'd never done this, but I just did very simple things. Like I printed out flyers. I went around to my local, you know, the vet offices, the pet stores, the coffee shops. And asked all of them if I could put stuff up. So I'd put either, you know, a flyer, business card, or both. I did a little bit of advertising online. I built a website finally and just had like a landing page for people to go who either saw a flyer, saw a business card, and it started to slowly, pick up in the sense of maybe at first I was getting one call every 3 or 4 weeks and then down the line it was, you know, I was getting reached out to in some form probably once a week, which is great. Um, but I will admit there have been like tricky things along the way. In terms of trying to figure out how to expand as a one-man show and if you want to like hire people. I don't know. Yeah. For everyone listening, like California specifically has very specific laws about that. So, mm-hmm. So I feel like I got to a point where I said, okay, I have kind of the max amount of people that I can have without— Yeah. Without expanding to maybe another walker. And I don't want to get too into the weeds on it, but essentially I tried out some things and dabbled in the world of getting another walker, and it wasn't really working out and the finances weren't making sense. To do it like legitimate, like legitimately, like getting someone with a W-2 and health benefits and having an employee. So I decided, look, I'm going to take as many walks as I can myself. I'm going to dog sit when I'm not dog walking. And I thought, let me build my online presence a little bit and see if there's maybe another way to make money that isn't just from being out there physically with the dogs. And so I had had my Instagram, @justinwalksdogs, for years, but it was really just like a fun tool to like, maybe people could come to if they wanted to check out that I was a real dog walker. But I actually deliberately like tried to start building it up so maybe I could make some money through different avenues. Yeah. Wow. And here we are. It found me. Like, that reel that you put out there. I mean, it's working, it sounds like. Although I wish— my dog's actually sleeping behind me. I don't know. Oh, I can't see him. But he's back there. But I mean, it sounds like you're reaching people in a way. That is— it's— and it's slow, right? I think that's the other thing. It may not be like this overnight, right away, but you're trying different things. And I gotta say, like, the, the stuff in California with employees, or even just as a sole proprietor, and the amount that you pay for taxes, like, it's, it's just— it's like, oh— or even as an LLC, it's just like, it's rough. It's rough. And so hearing you talk about that, I think, can stop a lot of people in their tracks of like, oh, I'm not even going to do my own thing because It's, you know, too expensive, it's too confusing, it's too complicated, you know, all the things. I think it's a couple things that I would want to say to people, I think, that are listening is there's— and you've probably gone over this in other episodes, but there just is no— there's like, there is no like get-rich-quick schemes or anything like that. And so I just Everything is going to be hard in its own way. And of course, having your own business is going to be difficult because you're doing everything. You're trying to break away in a sense from the norm that we've been taught of working a job as an employee. But with that said, when it is difficult, it's not that difficult. It's, it's not like— it should not dissuade you from doing it because the truth is it's going to end up giving you more freedom. Them in the long run in so many ways. And I think for me, I realized something that's so important to me, and I haven't touched on this, but one of the reasons I chose to go into this full-time is I was realizing the flexibility it afforded me. Even if at the beginning I was working 12-hour days. Yeah, it was, oh, if I want to go to Connecticut to visit my family, or if I do want to take a vacation somewhere, I just choose when I do that. I just tell my clients a couple months in advance. And maybe figure out like a walker to cover it or something. But like, I loved the flexibility that was afforded. And if you run, if you have your own business, that's the only way you're gonna get that type of flexibility. Yeah. So I just think it's worth this. It's worth the initial struggle to start your own business. Um, yeah. Yeah, it can sound daunting, but it's, uh, it's very rewarding as well. It's very rewarding as well. Right. And I think this touches on like knowing what your, like your values, like freedom, flexibility, not having that soul-crushing Sunday scary, you know, all of these things. Like there are so many things that when you figure out what matters, that going into— and I had someone describe it to me once as like there's two paths. One is a very like manicured path with grass and trees and everything's all beautiful landscaped. And the other path is full of weeds and it's a mess and there's rocks and boulders. And you could very easily go down the manicured one and just walk in like it's fine, it's beautiful. Or you grab your machete and your wheelbarrow and your shovel and you go pave that, or you go figure out that other one and clear it out yourself. And how much better you'll feel at the end. And again, not everyone may want that, but I think that it kind of highlights what you're saying here, that like, don't let the boulders and weeds and rocks in the path stop you from getting towards that end goal of having the things that matter to you and freedom, the flexibility, you know, all whatever, whatever that might be, the ability to travel, the ability to go to concerts when you want, the ability to You know, oh, I'm going to go watch a movie in the afternoon because this is when it comes out, or whatever it is. Like, you have that freedom. And yeah, you don't get that in a corporate setting all the time. You may not have enough PTO. You may have— your boss may say no, you can't take that time off, or, you know, whatever it is. And so knowing what matters to you as you go into that kind of makes it seem like these hurdles are just little, little pebbles in the road. You know, they're not really they're tough, but you can ask questions and you can, you know, you can talk to people and you can figure it out. And it may take a while, but I hear you on that because it just, it is complicated and confusing, but you shouldn't let it stop ya. No. And like you, I'm curious if you feel the same, Jenny, but I think to your point earlier about when you said, oh, when did you know that you you know, wanted these things to be something you were a fan of rather than working. Yeah, I think you can apply it to anything. You're never going to know with anything until you try it. And so, yes, it's— if you are someone listening to this that's thinking about doing anything, I don't know what it, what it is, but anything out of the norm of what you're currently doing, if it just remains a thought in your brain, You're never going to know how it feels to do it. And if— look, I'm not advocating for some people leaving your job at this current moment. Maybe it's not possible. You have bills to pay. You just physically can't do it at this moment. But maybe consider trying to save a little extra so that you can do it in the future. Or all that I'm trying to get at is actually giving yourself a chance of doing the thing that you're curious about doing, you will then know if you want to continue doing it or not. But that's the only way. So, so well said. It's so true. You just don't— you just don't know until you try. And you are proof of that. You tried it. You're like, well, let's, let's see what happens. Let's see what happens if I do this. And See what happens when I go off the app and let's see what happens when I start this. And now, Justin, you're doing it. Like, how many dogs do you walk a day? I'm curious. I probably— so, wow, that's a loaded question, but— Okay, okay. No, no, I'd say it's probably about, let's say client-wise, like the amount of different houses that I'm going to and starting a walk from. Yeah. It's probably, like 12 to 18 a day. Wow. Okay. So it's the amount of dogs could be more depending on. Yeah. Because I do pretty, I don't do like those massive group walks. Yeah. Where you see the guys or gals out there with like 12 dogs. Yeah. I do a little more private, privatized walks. So it's typically one family or, you know, maybe two households that are friends that want to band together. But yeah, probably like 12 to 18 a day. There's days that are maybe about 10, but it's, it's still a lot of walks. But I feel like my hours are much more normalized. So I usually start around 8:30 or 9 in the morning and I usually go to about, probably about 6 PM. So it's a pretty standard, it is kind of like a 9 to 5 schedule. Yeah. And then I do overnight still, but it's a much more doable lifestyle and it's the best. I mean, I'm outside with dogs all day. Yeah. I still walk like 25,000 steps probably a day. Single. So it's, yeah, it's helpful for the fact that I love food 'cause I can pretty much eat anything and not gain weight because I'm just walking. So much. Oh my gosh. Yes. And in LA you have access to so much good food. So that is, that's, I mean, you and I both have like the best Mexican food probably in the country. Yeah. Done. Yeah. Lucky us. Yeah. Lucky us. But yeah, no, it's, it's, oh, but no, things are, it's, it's cool these days. I'm still looking to expand in different ways, but but right now I'd say for the last like couple years, I finally felt that I'm totally happy and content with where I'm at, like in all aspects. And, and the truth is, obviously I did a lot of learning along the way. Yeah. But I really think for a lot of people in their different industries that they wanna maybe break off into that are listening, I really think you can make these changes and get to the place you want to be in like 2 to 3 years. Sometimes you just need to know the pathway maybe a little bit better than I did, but I don't think it needs to take you like 8 to 10 years. I, I think it can be done in shorter. Yeah, it just little, every little step counts. Counts, every little step. And I feel like that's one thing you don't have to leap. And if that's something I've learned from talking to people who've made career changes, it's very few and far between that people actually just leap into the deep end. I think I've talked to maybe 2 people who have done that out of like the 75 that I have talked to. Everyone else, it's small calculated risk steps, or some big pivotal moment happens in life that slaps them across the face, and then it's like, Okay, I do need to make a change, but still there are still— there's some strategy and thought and intention behind it. But it all begins with a tiny little small step, and those add up over time. And you're taking 25,000 of those steps every day. And you're literally walking into the direction that is just so much more healthy. For you, mind, body, and spirit, how you show up with your friends and your partner. And dogs are just so happy and wonderful and such good energy to be around. And Justin, I just want to say one thing, which probably sounds a little silly, but thank you for believing in yourself enough to try. I'm glad you didn't give up and just settle for that soul-crushing job feeling of like, well, this is just what everyone does. Think it is just so inspiring and just really appreciate you, you, you doing that and also coming on and sharing, but just like setting an example that it is possible. So thank you. I really appreciate you saying that. That's really sweet of you. Um, yeah, I really think, I mean, you definitely are a proponent, but I, I really am a proponent of everyone just take those, those small steps, like you, everything you just said, take those small steps towards what you actually are interested in trying out because it could change your life. And, and it, yeah, it probably isn't gonna hit you over the head and be an overnight, like, my life has changed, but it, it, it will happen if you put the time and the energy into it and You don't have to have the soul-crushing job for the rest of your life, even if it feels like it's the only option. There is always another option. There truly is. Yeah, truly is. There truly is. Justin, thank you for sharing so much and for being so inspiring and all the wonderful things. And now I want people to connect with you because this is their chance to actually like see you doing it out there on Instagram, you know, if they're in the LA area hiring you, how can they connect with you? How can they find you and what's kind of coming up next for you? Yeah. So anyone that wants to check me out online on Instagram, I'm there. Justin Walks Dogs is my handle. You can also find me, my website is just justinwalksdogs.com. So pretty simple. If so, those would probably be the two main places to find me online. And if you're in the LA area, hit me up. You can find my, my phone number and everything on my website. But I, I walk in like West Hollywood, Hollywood, Beverly Hills, Larchmont. Pretty much all those surrounding areas. So they're, they're all on my website. If you're, if you're curious, come find me. I'd love to meet your dogs. So, and then coming up, I actually, Jenny, you and I talked about this briefly actually when, before we got on, but I've been building up my social media. It's been super fun to share things with, with with whoever wants to watch or listen. But I've been really fortunate that some like-minded individuals have reached out to me over the last few months. They've asked me if I would help them try to start their own dog walking and pet sitting businesses. And for me, someone that loves connecting with new people, I've said, sure. I've been doing it now for a few months and it's been super, super rewarding and gratifying.. And so I'm going to be expanding that and offering like mentoring services to anyone that wants to start their own dog walking or pet sitting business. And so if that is of interest to you, anyone listening, you will find all that info for sure on my Instagram @justinwalksdogs. But I'm really excited about it. So cool. That's so cool to be able to take all of these things that you learned, that you you never knew you were going to learn, and now you're taking them to help others. And yeah, it's been so cool. It's like pretty much some people just want, you know, maybe 1 hour, a 1-hour call with me. But then some of the— I guess I can call them students, but some of them have asked about, you know, a more full-length program. So essentially what I've been doing is doing like 5 to 6 classes over the course of about 3 months where I meet with them every 2 weeks. Yeah. And so I get to walk them through their intro steps, like getting their first clients, how to promote themselves at first. And it's been amazing. Yeah. Especially for the first couple to actually have them come back and say, oh my God, like I got my first few. And yeah, it's been awesome. I, I love this stuff. So I'm hoping that this becomes like a much bigger part of my business. I love that. I love that. You're just expanding that, all the opportunities to others. And so cool of you to do that. I hope everyone listening hops over to your Instagram, checks that out, and whether they need a dog walker or they just wanna learn how to do it, either way, you are wonderful. Thank you so much for being here today, Justin. I appreciate you. My pleasure. Thanks for having me, Jenny. This has been so, so fun. Thanks for hanging out with me and Justin on this episode of the Career Flipper Podcast. And wow, I honestly can't believe this is the final episode of season 2. If this conversation with Justin lit even the tiniest spark or reminded you that you're not out here flipping your career alone, keep that energy going. Hit follow, subscribe, leave a review, and send this to a friend who's also in the middle of their own career plot twist. That's how we grow this beautifully messy, second chance loving community together. And as we wrap up season 2, I just want you to remember this: you're not behind, you're not broken, and you are definitely not too late. Starting again is always on the table. The first step might be shaky or tear-stained. Trust me, I've been there. But that tiny brave move might just be the one that changes everything. Season 3 of The Career Flipper kicks off in spring 2026, and I cannot wait to share more stories, more flips, and more reminders that it's never too late to start over. So until then, binge past episodes and keep going. Write me and tell me about it. Be on a future episode. Take the steps. Get messy. Really messy. Make mistakes because really, what's the best that could happen? Thank you so much for tuning in. I appreciate you.