From lawyer to therapist and author, meet Lauren Tetenbaum

Speaker A: Your job doesn't need to check all of the boxes, especially if it's early on in your career. But you shouldn't be miserable. Then we have a problem.

Speaker B: Hello, my friend. Welcome back to the Career Flipper podcast. You already know. This podcast is basically me handing you a big old permission slip to chuck the rulebook out the window and rethink your entire career or your entire life whenever you feel like that day. I'm Jenny Dempsey, furniture flipper, host of this show. And yes, after two years post layoff, I'm back in a day job again. And it doesn't kill my soul. I like to call it the investor of my dreams. It is keeping the lights on with some really good people around me while I happily and messily build my business. San Diego furniture flipper on the side. And for that, I am so grateful. In today's episode, you'll meet Lauren Tettenbaum of New York. She's a former lawyer who completely reinvented herself as a psychotherapist and author. And she's made it her mission to support women through big life transitions like menopause and perimenopause. So she wrote a book all about it. It's called Millennial Menopause Preparing for Perimenopause, Menopause, and Life's Next Period. And listen, I gotta be real with you. The read really opened my eyes to a lot of things that no one's telling you as you start getting into your 30s and early 40s. But enough of that. We're gonna talk about it now in this episode. You should definitely pick up the book if you get a chance. Highly recommend it. Um, give it to all your girlfriends. And in this episode, we're gonna talk about these things from, you know, walking away from careers that don't fit anymore to whether it's navigating motherhood or menopause or perimenopause and all the weird things that start to happen. Like, what is this itchy ear thing? Like, for reals? Uh, and the mental health and the mood. Okay, I could go on and on, but we're talking about it in a way that is honest, compassionate, and very, very real. The conversation couldn't have come at a better time. As I kind of navigate this in the early days, I'm trying to figure it out too. So the episode is real. Hopefully it's very validating for you as well, and that it's one of those, like, oh, thank goodness it is not just me feeling this way kind of conversation. So if you're In a season of change, whether it's your career, your body, or your sense of self, anything, this one's for you. Let's dive into the episode now. You know, timing wise. Lauren, I feel like you coming on the Career Flipper is serendipitous, because when I look at all of my stats and stuff of who's tuning in, it really is a high volume of millennial women. And so to have you here today talking about things, and we'll get into what exactly you're doing now after your flip, but. And why that's relevant about millennial women. But. But the thing is, is that why we're going through these things? And sometimes I kind of wonder. I'm like, is this career change thing existential crisis, or is it perimenopause? Or is it an actual career? So I think there's just so many. So many questions that I have, and I just want to open the conversation that we're going to have today for everyone listening, because this is something that I think is a unique opportunity to chat about career flips, perimenopause, menopause, and everything in between. So, Lauren, welcome to the Career Flipper. Tell everybody who you are, where you are, and what you're doing now, and then we'll dive into the Career Flips.

Speaker A: Sounds great. Super happy to be here and always happy to talk about career shifts and mental health and, of course, perimenopause. I am Lauren Tettenbaum. I'm a licensed clinical social worker based in New York, but licensed in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, and Florida. I'm a mom of two kids and a dog who's next to me and may make an appearance. And, um, I am a former lawyer, so I've had a few career pivots along the way.

Speaker B: Wow, that's a lot to juggle on a daily basis, I'm sure. And coming from a law background, I'm so curious to hear how you got to this point. So how did it all begin? Like, what made you decide to go into law in the first place? And then what made you decide to change and, um, pivot?

Speaker A: So I always, from a young age, enjoyed supporting women. I was always a reader. I read women stories. I wanted to empower women. I wanted to share their stories. And I took a class in college that was about reproductive rights in the law. And I thought, this is what I should be doing. I should be making the world a better place as a lawyer. Went to law school, hated it. So, yeah, I actually pursued my master's of Social work simultaneously after that first year. And I completed both degrees, and there's an element of, uh, social justice and advocacy in social work school, which I love. And then I was able to bring back the mental health lens and, uh, the compassionate care that I was trained in back to law. So I did work in the legal industry for 10 years as a lawyer, as, uh, a law firm, m personnel, manager of professional development and pro bono programs. And when I became a mom, I realized that there was still such a gap in the support that women in the workplace were experiencing that I wanted to be the one to provide the support I wish I'd had. So I went into private practice as a therapist and ultimately got the opportunity to write my book about millennial menopause. And I got to really do what I love, and I'm very fortunate. Wow.

Speaker B: Okay. I have so, so many questions. First thing, when you talk about when you were even young and feeling this need to want to empower women, where did that come from? Was there someone in your life that set that example for you? Was it just something that naturally came? I'm just very curious, because I think a lot of the times we feel these things as kids, and then as we grow up, we kind of push them down. And you didn't do that, but I love that you brought this up. So what inspired you? What was. Who kind of set that example for you?

Speaker A: I would say that both my parents really instilled in me this drive to use whatever privilege I have to help those who are less fortunate and to not hold myself back. My dad is definitely a feminist. Father always told me to go for it. My mom did as well. And the population that I work with, which is women, wasn't something that they specifically taught me. It was just something I was always drawn to. I do think, in large part, it's because I was such a reader, and I loved reading books about women. And it's funny, because I think that you're right. We do tend to push down our childhood interests. But I actually think that if you're considering a career pivot, you should think about what you loved to do as a child. And I loved women's stories and supporting women. And now I literally got to be in that world all the time through my job.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Uh, it completely evolved in this way that just, like, it came together so organically, and so you went into law thinking this is what you wanted to do. It sounds like you felt really confident about that at that time. And then you're actually in law school and you're like, oh, I hate this. But what did you hate about it? What was that experience like for you? What was that moment like when you're like, yeah, no, I'm not doing this. Like, what? Can you talk about that?

Speaker A: Sure. I. And I'm laughing right now because I was very fortunate to make good friends. I finished law school in 2011, so 14 years ago. But I was just the other night this week with a law school friend of mine who was in the trenches with me. So a lot of good did come out of it, including friendships and of course my training and my ability to relate to lawyers and law students. But what I didn't like was the philosophical approach, approach to learning. I'm actually quite concrete. And I really wanted to be on the ground with people. And I felt that it was very abstract. And I also am a rule follower. And, uh, in law you learn to argue both sides and there is no right answer. And I didn't personally connect to that.

Speaker B: Yeah, that makes sense. And so you were. You're so in touch with the things that you actually need to do. And I think this is a thing of, uh, career flippers sometimes. And maybe you can touch on this a bit. But we quite, we second guess ourselves a lot. We think, this is what I like to do. These are the things that I'm good at. But then, oh, I have this day job that pays the bills. I gotta stick with that. And so I can't go out and do these other things that kind of like, are true to my values. We question them because society says, just pay your bills and be a good person at work. In the corporate world, climb that ladder, it doesn't matter what you value. I know I have left roles in the past because they didn't align with my values. And it was the hardest thing it took me, you know, when I should have left, maybe six months earlier. Like, it took me so long because I was like, what am I gonna do next? What am I gonna do without this paycheck? But I think when we are, when we just own it, and it sounds like that's something that comes naturally to you, especially, like, I just gotta be honest too. Like, your parents sound amazing.

Speaker A: Oh, thank you. They're good ones.

Speaker B: Sound really amazing.

Speaker A: That does make a difference, of course. And we had many talks along the way over what was practical and what am I doing with my life. Because I was very idealistic, but they always taught me that I could do whatever I wanted. I shouldn't hold myself back.

Speaker B: Yeah, I shouldn't hold myself back right there, because it is so easy to do that. And so you hung on to those words, and you didn't hold yourself back with these steps. So when you made these changes and you communicated that to your parents, I'm guessing the conversations were fine. Like, there was no pushback. There was no judgment. It was just like, cool, sounds great. Like, what was that like when you told them.

Speaker A: Yes. I think what you were alluding to, that we're often our own worst critics, is very true. I know that when I did that first year of law school, a large part of me wanted to quit altogether, but the word quit is negative. I, uh, felt really ashamed that I didn't like it. My parents were never saying, you must finish. Um, but I said that to myself because of the expectations I put on myself. My mom had actually gotten her master's in social work when I was in high school, which also taught me it's never too late to try something new and learn a new skill or profession. So they were very supportive of me pursuing that. And ultimately, they wanted me to find, um, something that I would say, not that I was passionate about, because you're right. Bills have to be paid, but something I didn't hate. Right. And I say that to my clients now, too. Your job doesn't need to check all of the boxes, especially if it's early on in your career. But you shouldn't be miserable. Then we have a problem.

Speaker B: Right? Right. That's true. That is a good rule of thumb if we're trying to figure out, should we stay, should we go? It doesn't have to check off all the boxes. It can literally just be the paycheck. And then there's other things outside of that. I think there was a lot in our culture, at least in the tech world, where I come from, where it's like, you live and breathe your job. Like, this is. This is it. This is what you're good at. And it's like, no, we don't have to drink that Kool Aid. There can be other things, and that's okay. And to kind of challenge some of those, um, old thoughts that might not be actually true. So you then went, you know, you got your master's in social work. And then, so what happened with, you know, you're out of college at this point, and you start kind of going into the real daily work of things. And how. What is the time frame between when you kind of started working and then when you had kids and you kind of were, like, realizing, well, there's not this support here. Like what was that time frame like for you?

Speaker A: So I finished college, 2007, went straight to grad school, which I usually advise not to do actually now I think it's important to get some work experience. And I was always working, but they were internships and it wasn't quite the same. Um, so. But I did that at the time I didn't have a me to get that advice from. And I finished both degrees by 2011 and then I had my son in 2016. So I went through. At the time I was practicing law and I definitely believe that women and men and anyone can be hands on, involved parents and successful lawyers. But it really requires the support of a good employer and a good team. And I didn't have that at the time. I still, I had a great team. I'm um, still friends with those friends as well. But I didn't have the right kinds of support. And so I pivoted and went into. I was essentially the in house social worker at a law firm. So I was still doing, you know, the legal world thing.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But I felt like I started to notice how privileged I was and yet how difficult it was to be a working parent in America. And then I had my daughter in 2018 and then Covid hit and I said it's enough, I've got to do more for other women who are struggling. And so now I focus on supporting women in their 20s, 30s and 40s with everything from emerging adulthood issues, career changes, dating, family of origin dynamics through fertility, pregnancy, postpartum, um, and perimenopause. Wow.

Speaker B: Yeah, that covers a lot. And do you do this like all remotely? Do you do this in an office? How, like how does that kind of work on the day to day? How do you meet with clients? How do they, how do they find you?

Speaker A: So I primarily work from home, which is really a gift. And I don't know if I would have chosen this particular career path before television telehealth was as accessible as it is. My kids go to school right across the street they can walk to. And from now, you know, those things really make a difference in terms of childcare and logistics. But I work with clients who live all over New York and the other states that I mentioned. And they find me at this point now through other friends and former clients of mine or other providers that I collaborate with and through my writing and speaking engagements. And I really did work hard on building my practice. It wasn't that it magically came to me because at the end of the day. I'm an entrepreneur, which is not something they teach you in grad school.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But I've been able to. To build it, and it's been really a joy. Wow.

Speaker B: Yeah. That jump into entrepreneurship from working for a company, um, and kind of having the consistency of a, you know, the paycheck, but also like. Yes, exactly. All the things that go with it. What was that like to suddenly not have it? What was that moment when you put in, like, the notice, you're like, well, I'm gonna do something else. What was. What was going through your head at that time? What was kind of, what were you leaning towards?

Speaker A: I'll never forget that moment. It was late 2020, so quarantine, all the things. And I wasn't happy at my job anymore. I wasn't feeling fulfilled. I was struggling. We all were struggling, uh, back to those dark days. But I felt a calling. I felt like I could do something about it. And again, I didn't know anything about business plans and things like that, so I didn't start with that. I just sort of started. I started by hosting a mom, uh, support group. It was very much in my wheelhouse. I'd had the training, I had the skill set, I had the people in my community, and I just loved it. And I kept my day job. And then I started talking about working part time for a private practice. And so I was dabbling very slowly. And, um, by February of, uh, 2021, I turned to my husband and I said, I think I can do this full time. And he said, okay, let's do it. And that's, uh, the rest is history.

Speaker B: Wow, that's impressive. To be able to just start small, keep the day job and do little bits on the side, but things that are very aligned with who you are and how you can help and who you want to help. And, you know, this is another thing that I hear from people who write in. They're like, oh, I wish I could leave my job, but I just can't. Like, well, you don't have to. You know, what's the smallest step of something that you can do right now? Maybe it is literally messaging someone. It could be one hour a week, it could be one hour a month. Like, the tiniest thing you can do to start on the side, to lean in towards these things and then get to that point where, like, you in February 2021, you're like, all right, I'm going to do this. And you did. And so when did the book come into play? How was that? Born. Where did the idea stem from? Yeah, talk about that.

Speaker A: So I love your advice so much, and I likewise give it to clients and friends. Just start with something very small and do things that are in line with your values, because you won't regret that. So when I said to myself, I'm ready to launch a business and, uh, work hard to build something for myself and something that's in line with all of my passions, and part of my passions have always been creating and being creative through writing. And. And I thought, well, I'm, um, putting myself out there as an entrepreneur. Might as well put myself out there as a writer as well. And I started writing articles for different blogs and magazines, both digital and print. And it was just fun. I really did it because I enjoyed it. I sometimes got paid. I sometimes didn't. And that's another thing that I teach, uh, my clients. You know, sometimes you will take things unpaid when you're starting out in a new career, and don't do that forever because you deserve to get paid for your work. But here and there, you know, be selective. And I have always been interested in women's health. And I wrote a piece about millennials and menopause because I realized that as I was 39, I knew nothing about it. And it ultimately led to the opportunity to write the book, which really feels like a culmination of all of my professional hats and passions and values all combined.

Speaker B: Well, thank you for writing that book. Um, I just want to put that out there because your experiences and your questions and you putting it in from this perspective of, like, I love to write. And I've been already sharing some of this information, and now it's in one place for it to be accessible for women to read and in a voice that we can relate to. Like, talking with you right now, I'm like, yeah, like, it's easy to understand. It's not this scientific paper by, um, no offense, but, like, an old white man who doesn't get it. And so it's like, absolutely so.

Speaker A: Yeah. And thank you for saying that. The book, very much, is in my voice. It's how I talk. The first line is a reference to the M. Mean Girls movie. It's full of pop culture references. It's fun, it's light, and it's very much science and research backed. I did a ton of research. I interviewed four dozen women's health experts, OBGYNs, um, nutritionists, gynecologists, and fertility experts, neurologists, startup founders. I went to the professional conferences. I did a lot of reading. And I taught myself everything I wanted to know, and I gathered questions from my peers and. And answered those as well. And it's. It's a fun and informative read. Wow.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah, it sounds like it. And I cannot wait to read it because I know I'll just probably read it in, like, one sitting. And so I want to shift the conversation just a little bit to pick your brain on something, because what I have noticed, and I am in my early 40s as well, so I'm kind of like navigating this place of, like, I'm, um, a what I like to call semi retired people pleaser. And that's how I know myself. Semi retired added very recently and so.

Speaker A: But good, uh, small steps. M. We're working on it.

Speaker B: But in the early my. As I venture deeper into my 40s, I'm noticing that I am just caring less and less about a lot of things that I used to care about. And that semi retired is feeling like it's going to be a little more fully retired very soon. But I think the challenge is. Is. And I'm sure we could talk more on that. And I would really like to, but I think the people around you that know you as a certain type of person, personality, um, even, you know, when we talk about perimenopause, there's so many side effects that come with it that are weird. Um, itchy ears, mood swing. I mean, like, there's so many things that are not textbook, you know, hot, you know, hot flashes. Like, it's more than that. Um, but people around you suddenly start to see these changes, and they just may not know how to react. Maybe it's a partner, maybe it's, you know, friends that are like, what's going on? Or like, your anxiety is spiraling suddenly you can't be in social situations as long anymore. And so I'm curious, and this is maybe a loaded question because I'm asking a lot here, but how do you communicate perimenopause to someone who may not be going through it or may know you as a different version? And you're trying to just like, evolve and figure it out, but don't really understand what's going on? Especially to, like, a partner who wants to be there and support you, but you're like, don't chew. I don't want to hear you breathe. Um, leave me alone. I need to go upstairs and breathe.

Speaker A: But I don't get a chew near me.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: So I would approach this question. My answer would depend on who it is. That you're getting this information to. So I do have a chapter in my book dedicated specifically to mental health. Who care about millennial women or women going through this phase of life. And in general, if it's someone that you're close to or live with, like a husband or a brother or best friend or whatever it is, I think it's really important that they understand it's a biological shift that maybe you need help, maybe you need help with finding the right medical provider who can give you resources or reading information through my book and beyond and so that they are aware, much like pregnancy, it's the woman's body, but the partner in her life is also going through this phase and should be, uh, you know, somewhat aware at the very least of what it's like for her. So I would definitely be open and give them resources and invite them to join you in this conversation.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: For others that you're less close to or connected with or don't want to share, I think that we need to stop feeling like we need to give a reason. We don't need to give a reason. No is a complete sentence, and no means no. No, thanks.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's it.

Speaker A: And whether it's, you know, uh, a boss asking for something that's not in the scope of your work, or friends who are well meaning but give you guilt for not wanting to go out and you're tired, just say no, thank you. And we have to get more comfortable as women with not being agreeable to everyone, El instead of looking out for ourselves. And that could be due to perimenopause and you don't feel like it. Or it could just be because you don't feel like it. And that's okay.

Speaker B: Yeah. Uh. Oof. That hits. Yes. It always feels like it has to be a no, but here's why. And then you over explain and it's like, that's what's acceptable. But it doesn't have to be that way. And I feel like the, uh, I don't have the energy to be that way anymore. And I think that's kind of a great thing. And I know a lot of people listening are feeling similar ways. And so it's like you're in your early 40s and you're navigating these change, biological changes. But at the same time, I think I'm noticing a pattern as I talk to more and more career flippers that they, especially women, that this phase of life is where you really think about the pivots and the changes. Because maybe you have been putting up with something or settling for something for so many years. A job that you worked at for 20 years, but you really just. You're not. You've never really liked it. It's never aligned with your values. And then suddenly you don't have the energy to deal with it anymore. And so you make this change. And I think there's something really special and unique here, uh, to talk about, about perimenopause and career flips, because they kind of go hand in hand. We just don't have to settle for things. It's okay to change. And going back to what you said, we don't have to explain why. We can just do it right.

Speaker A: And, uh, I don't mean to make it sound simple, because it's not. But I do encourage women especially, but anyone, to talk to yourself, give yourself advice the way you would a friend. You probably wouldn't tell a friend to suffer through something or just accept that they have to be in this mediocre job or whatever it is. You would say, no, go for it, or, um, I'm here to support you, or what can I do to help you? And do that for yourself. And menopause does get a bad rap, but it often is and can be thought of as an opportunity. And every woman who had been through it told me that they feel more confident in themselves. They feel like they're the more authentic versions of themselves. And they do see it as a chance to reflect on what works for them, what isn't working for them, and what they can do to make a change.

Speaker B: Yeah, it really. I like that, uh, it is an opportunity. It is such a great thing. It's not something to fix. It doesn't mean you're broken. It doesn't mean you have to go to. You know, I think the other thing is trying to go to the doctor and explain this. A lot of the times you're brushed aside or they just hand you some type of pill. And while I'm not here to judge any type of medication that someone would take, obviously, I. No idea. I'm not a doctor, but I know sometimes that's not the answer, at least for me. Um, and so I think having, you know, just being able to talk about it, which is something that you are doing so well, because this was not talked about before. Like, I feel like right now this is. Honestly, I don't remember my mom talking about this or even my grandma. Like, this was taboo. And it's not something that is typically put in the public forum. And now I'm like, I'm sharing this on LinkedIn. Like, I mean, this is. This is what I mean.

Speaker A: It's just human development. Yeah, no big deal. Exactly. You know, Exactly. The more that we shrouded in secrecy, the more stigmatized it is. We're not getting the right funding we need for resources. We're not getting representation in the media, we're not getting. Getting policies that we need. So let's end that and talk about it and get what we deserve.

Speaker B: Yes. Yes. So well said. So well said. You know, Lauren, whoever is listening to this episode right now, wherever they are in their stage of career, flip, whether they're thinking about it and they feel stuck and scared, or they're right in the middle of it and they're just like, how do I keep going when it gets really difficult? Is there a piece of advice that has helped you along the way or something that you'd like to offer them of, kind of, how do you keep the momentum going when it gets really challenging?

Speaker A: Yeah, my heart sort of breaks when I hear that. And I've been there, too. And, um, so much of our identities, especially in this country, are tied to our careers. And again, that usually does go back to the expectations we ourselves are putting on ourselves. I would say you're not alone. It can be really difficult. It can be really dark. But please, please, please get the support that you need, because it is out there. I, uh, would also encourage people to take a pause if they need it. A lot of states provide paid leave or there's family leave, and there are opportunities to take care of yourself. And frankly, your health is your wealth, and that includes your mental health. So if that isn't going well and you think a new job or a career pause or whatever it is would be helpful, you've got to do it, and resources are available to help you get that done.

Speaker B: That's incredible advice. Don't hold it in, Talk about it, get the support you need. There's nothing to be ashamed of. Nothing. Lauren, thank you so much for this conversation today. It's just incredibly important to, again, just talk about this, open up about it, and to share it. And your journey into it is just like, I'm so glad you believed in yourself and your abilities and you stayed true to your values, because now you're bringing this book into the world to help so many women now and also down the road. And I just. Thank you. Thank you for doing that. Thank you for being here to share. How can people connect with you? Where can they find you? How could they buy your book? Tell everybody. I want to just send everybody to you.

Speaker A: Well, thank you so much. I am on Instagram as the counselor. Counselor but Laur for Lauren. And that's also my m website. But if you go to millennialmenopause.com it'll take you to my website and to where all the places my book is sold. My book is called Millennial Menopause Preparing for Perimenopause Menopause and Life's next period. It's on Amazon, Barnes Noble, independent booksellers and really I am happy to point people in the right direction if I can't help them myself. Like I said, you are not alone and I am, um, cheering you on.

Speaker B: Thank you so much Lauren. I appreciate you being here today.

Speaker A: Thank you.

Speaker B: Thanks for hanging out with me and Lauren on this episode of the Career Flipper. You'll find all the ways to connect with Lauren in the show notes. And if this conference conversation led even the tiniest spark or made you feel a little less out like you're flailing alone, the best way to keep this energy going is to hit, follow, drop a review or send this to a friend who's also mid career. Plot twist. That's um, how we grow this messy, magical little corner of our flippin community. And at the end of the day, here's what I want you to take away. You're not behind, you're not broken. And you are definitely not too late. Starting again is always on the table. And that first tiny step might feel terrifying, you might ugly cry through it. But it could be this step that will change everything. So go on, take that tiny first step. Even if it's messy. Especially if it's messy. Because really, what's the best uh, that could happen?