Columbus Calling Kim Cullen on the Road to NIGP Forum

Speaker A: M hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Big Bid Theory, the show powered by bidprime and beaconbid. I'm your host, Bill Culhane from here in Austin, Texas, and we have a great episode coming up today. It's a special episode of sorts. First up, we're bringing back a familiar voice, a, uh, familiar guest to our TBBT audience. Kim Cull is joining us again. If you caught her first visit all the way back in season 12, episode one, you know she's got great insight on where public procurement is headed. Real informative, uh, a person really in the know when it comes to public procurement. Today, we're talking about a variety of things, including forum prep, what beaconbid has coming up at booth 223, uh, a session Kim's co presenting that you will not want to miss while you're there in Columbus. And Kim and I are going to chat about a few other things as well. Then, later in the show, as everybody knows, it'll be time for crazy bids you can win. Rick Jennings is standing by with another really good, uh, entertaining, informative, crazy bid. He's not telling me what it is yet. So you and I will all be finding out together on what crazy bids is in this episode. But before any of that, a, uh, quick reminder. Again, nominations are open for the David and Beverly Nash Leadership Award. If you know someone in the industry who's, who's raising the bar for public procurement, go nominate them right now@thebigbittheory.com. many thanks to everybody who has already submitted a nomination. Uh, a guarantee, by the way. You're going to see somebody at NIGP Forum and the bell's going to ring, the light bulb is going to go on, and you're going to say to yourself, they are a great nominee for the Nash Award. As somebody once said, just do it. Uh, please get those nominations in. We will be awarding the third ever Nash Award, uh, TBD in, uh, December. Rick, it's great to see you out there. And speaking of, just do it, what about you do a tease of what's coming up later in crazy Bids?

Speaker B: I will just do it, Bill. We're going to keep this one pretty simple. In this episode's crazy Bids, we're going to be looking at polar opposites comparing a couple of pretty crazy things, so to speak, and show that the crystal ball that, uh, procurement officers obviously have and use to look into the future is very much alive and well. So stay tuned. This one's going to be a pretty interesting one.

Speaker A: Thank you, Rick. And let's get into it. Stick around for our visit with Kim, but let's hear from the partners who make the show possible.

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Speaker A: we are back and like I promised, I've got Kim Cullen standing by on the TBBT hotline. Kim is the Director of Marketing and growth at Beaconbid. She's got more than 25 years in marketing and customer relations and her focus has always been on public procurement insight, customer engagement, education across the public sector and a myriad other things. Those who know Kim know exactly what I'm talking about. Uh, on top of that, she's been actively involved in the NIGP Business Council, NBC Marketing Task Force. She holds the Supplier Mastery Designation. She leads seminars and webinars and other kinds of education opportunities all over the country from sea to shining sea. Here's our visit with Kim Cullen, everybody

Speaker C: and everybody by now, longtime listeners, listeners and viewers of the Big Bit there. You kind of know the drill by now. Much appreciation to the folks who have been listening over on their most favorite audio, uh, podcast platform. I'm Bill Culhane, the host of the Big Bit Theory from here in our Studios in Austin, Texas. Glad to have you. Now on the YouTube side, as I mentioned, over on the audio side, we do have a very special guest coming up in a moment, but just a couple of administrative things to go through. First of all, and another reminder, the day David and Beverly Nash Leadership Award, the third ever award that'll take place at the end of 2026. So get those nominations in. You can go to thebigbittheory.com. and all of the details are there. Uh, you know, you know somebody, you know, you know, a team deserving of that prestigious award. So get those in asap. And the second thing is. And we'll talk with Kim. Speak with Kim more about NIGP Forum in a moment. But yours truly, I will be there and I look forward seeing you. If you see me in a hallway, if you see me in an elevator, be sure to grab me. And I'd uh, like and love to speak with you. So return guest on the Big Bid Theory. Uh, I've mentioned before that my good friend Dr. Rodney rode down at Texas State University in San Marcos. He has the record of the most appearances on the Big Bit Theory. But our guest today, Kim Cullen, is going to, uh, sneak up on Dr. Roady at some point, I predict. Kim is the Director of Marketing and Growth at, at Beacon bid and bidprime. Has 25 years plus experience in marketing, customer relations, wears a lot of hats, knows a lot of things. Her focus areas are public procurement, insight, customer engagement, education across the public sector. More on that in a second. We'll be talking about NIGP Forum. So it's only fitting that I mention that Kim, she's been involved in the NIGP business, uh, council. She was a member of that NBA PC Marketing Task force leader. Kim earned a supplier Mastery designation. And if you don't know Kim by now, that probably means that you're new to procurement because Kim has led regional and nationwide seminars, webinars, all kinds of opportunities for sharing information. Kim was a guest on the very first episode of season 12. So Kim, no further ado. Welcome back to the show.

Speaker D: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, well, I look forward to going up against my rival for uh, the most visited and most on air time here on the Big Bid Theory. So I am excited to be here. Thanks for having me back. Excited to talk about NIGP Forum, one of my favorite times of the year for sure.

Speaker A: Yeah, no doubt.

Speaker C: Next time I see Dr. Rode, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell him he, he's our resident medical expert here as long, long time, uh, listeners are familiar with Dr. Robert Kim. Before we talk about those various things,

Speaker A: I think it's clear to, to many

Speaker C: folks watching and listening that you and I do have the relationship in that we, we do work together. And I'll say this, and you know, not to embarrass you Kim, in any way, but as Kim and I have started working together and I use this, this phrase that we always used in the Air Force when I was in the Air Force back in the day, and it is leaning forward in the foxhole. So, Kim, you have hit the ground running and then some, maybe not running, more like sprinting as you've arrived in your new position. And when I've heard you talk, when you and I have had our conversations, I've never heard you mention things like pipeline velocity, market share, growth trajectory. What I have heard you say are

Speaker A: things like, I want to help people

Speaker C: find the right solution for what it is they need. I've heard you and you and I have had this conversation about finding a platform, developing a set of tools that helps agencies and suppliers alike. Where does all that originate, that mindset of wanting to help?

Speaker D: I think, I mean, ultimately I am a part of, you know, as an E procurement provider and someone who works for BeaconBid, which is an E procurement solution. Um, I am part of currently and have been part of the public procurement ecosystem is what I like to call it, uh, for the past 20 years plus. Um, in that I think people who are in this ecosystem, either you are a public servant, right? So our public procurement practitioners, um, our CFOs, we work with those end users, those other really great stewards of their communities that work for the betterment of their community, of their taxpayers, of their students, um, or you are someone like me who's on the private sector side of that equation, but who still has those goals, that wants to work for the betterment of the community and all of the players within that community. So not only the students, The K through 12 students, uh, arriving safely to school every day, or your community having good, safe roads in order to drive on, but also those suppliers who provide those school buses and those safe roads, giving them the right opportunity and the information to allow, allow them to bring their services to the forefront and the attention of that government entity. So that was a really long winded way of saying, I think it's because I actually do care. Um, I care about the communities themselves, the people, um, and every part of that ecosystem, including the suppliers and the public procurement practitioners and um, the state or local government agency users as well as. So I think I've always been, I've said in the past that I'm kind of a connector of the two. Um, I can speak both, I can speak from the supplier side of things and talk to practitioners, procurement practitioners, about maybe some, some barriers to entry or some, some concerns that suppliers have about the procurement process that, that they have going on. And then the flip side, I can talk and explain to suppliers why public procurement Policies and practices may be the way that they are and why they are like that and why you have to be compliant and if you're not compliant, why that doesn't fly. And I think that's kind of what my role has always been. Just happens to be at a technology solution provider.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And when I say this, you know, I kind of joked a moment ago, didn't want to embarrass Kim and I don't want to do that now. But anybody who's had a conversation with Kim, you know that Kim's focus isn't so much when it comes to the solutions provider. It doesn't depend on whose logo is on the website. Um, that's one thing that I respect and I have found in working with and around Kim is she wants to find the right solution, um, for the right challenge. Um, so, um, on that note, um, we'll move over now to Kim. Something that's equally as exciting and that is forum, NIGP forum is coming up. I know we all, at least I can say that I'm about 80% packed as we get ready to head to Columbus. Anybody who has checked out recent episodes, Aaron Raz, Diana Landeros, our good friend Danny Mays, they're all our good friends. But one thing that I asked them is, you know, make the case for people attending forum. Well, it's, it's a little late for that right now, Kim. But what has you excited about heading over to Columbus, Ohio?

Speaker D: Oh goodness. I have so many things that I'm excited about this, this year that I think we'll get into. You know, lots of them being, being there is the first time wearing my Beacon bid shirt. Uh, that's pretty exciting, right? Um, being able to talk with people about our awesome solution and tools, um, learning a lot, speaking at different sessions. But I would say the thing I am honestly most excited about is seeing some people that I haven't seen since either forum last year or before. So this, this is really a tight knit community, this public procurement folks that, that come to forum every year. I have gotten to know them as you have um, throughout the years and, and really made some solid friendships. Um, I'm not going to call this one person out, but there's one person I'm super excited to see. She actually had to miss last year and so I haven't seen her in like two years. Um, in person. We've, we've talked a couple times. So I'm like super excited. It's almost like that feeling of anticipation when we were in lockdown For Covid and you couldn't see people and participate with them. You know, I'm just excited to like go and give my friends a big hug and say hi. So I think that's what I'm most excited about.

Speaker C: I also. Kim, I also heard a rumor that somebody's going to have a birthday.

Speaker D: Oh, geez. Yeah. Well, that one I'm not too excited about. NIGP Forum every single year. Except for last year. Last year it was end of July, so that was awesome. Every single year my birthday has fallen somewhere in the spectrum of NIGP Forum. Um, a couple of times. It was really fun because myself and a group of practitioners actually I got invited to go on a ghost tour. Like a ghost hunt, um, or something. I forget. Exactly. It was like one of those walking tours that you do with ghost walks and everything. So that was fun for my birthday. But yeah, so my birthday, nearly every year spent in the town with my lovely colleagues and, or my lovely procurement ecosystem friends. Um, and I love it and it's okay because I'm not a huge, like, I need this for my birthday type of thing. But if you do see me August 22nd, so it's a Saturday, so it's technically the day before. So if you're going to any of the pre forum stuff or you see me at the hotel, you know, feel free to say Happy birthday.

Speaker A: Say happy Birthday.

Speaker C: And you are accepting gifts, right?

Speaker D: Oh, of course. No.

Speaker C: Okay. So, um, now as far as Beacon bids plans for Columbus and I know there's probably a long list of things that you, that you and I could go through. Beacon Bid will be at booth 223. They're in the exhibit hall on Sunday and Monday.

Speaker A: But what else is going on?

Speaker C: Kim?

Speaker D: Yeah, I think first and foremost, please stop by see us and do you know, in the Expo hall on Sunday and Monday. Um, in addition, there's a few other things going on. Um, I actually will be speaking, uh, along with Victor Lemur at a session. It's a two part session. Um, this one is actually only in person. So those people who are there in person. Unfortunately it's not going to be available for virtual. I'm not sure why they did that. I think it's because it's maybe one of those longer classes, but there it starts at 10am and then there's a break and then it goes again after lunch, um, for another hour and however long. Hour and 15. Hour and 20 minutes, whatever it is. Um, but it's called demystifying debriefs. And so we're really excited about that so you can come and see me. It's not really Beacon Echo. We'll see. Have a couple of little things in there. Um, and then beaconbid is also, uh, we're going to have some of our team members at the social event on Sunday night. So if you see us out and about there, please say hi. Um, and then we will also be hosting an Innovation Theater session on Sunday at 4pm I believe I should have had that pulled up right in front of me. Uh, but an Innovation Theater session, um, that's inside the Expo hall and we're going to be taking you through the history of procurement, um, through a 30 minute interactive. You might even get to touch and feel some stuff session of Procurement technology through the ages, uh, where it's been and then also importantly where you, the practitioners are helping to take it in the future. Uh, so that Innovation Theater session will be about 30 minutes long. And the cool thing is is that if you don't have time to come to this, to the session, you'll be able to see kind of a mini version of that at the actual Expo hall at our booth. Because one of the things that beaconbit is doing this year is having ah, an experience within our booth. So we're taking you on a little history tour through a museum. Um, you will get this fun sneak peek Procurement through the Ages passport booklet to take with you. Um, and it's going to highlight a bunch of different things throughout the history of procurement. Um, it's going to tell you where the future is. We're going to have videos there with some of your colleagues in public procurement, uh, remembering and telling their stories. Uh, we have other artifacts there from technology of the past and we'll also have some fun little things going on for the future as well. Um, as you really are public procurement friends and practitioners are the future of procurement. And we're just here to be a good partner.

Speaker A: Very good.

Speaker C: That's a great summary. Now I'm just going to add this. So Innovation Theater, Kim just said it, it sounds like you're the attendees will be able to touch and feel things. How often do you go to Innovation Theater and get to feel something? So, so that's very good. And that whole concept, uh, of the history of procurement, I know that, that idea, that concept of looking and recognizing and celebrating the history of procurement, that's been in the works for over a year. So kudos to the folks over at beaconbit who have been putting that together. And then Kim, of course, uh, when you arrived I know that you grabbed the ball and I said earlier, you didn't just run with the ball, you sprinted with the ball. So I'm excited to see, see uh, how that plays out there at booth 223 in the exhibit hall. Uh, speaking of Beacon Bed and speaking of forum, and you mentioned it was July of last year when uh, everybody convened there in Denver, Colorado with the Blue Bears. So in the next 13 months or so, Beacon Bid has been very busy, kind of expanding that e procurement ecosystem that you made reference to. So I know you can't go through everything. Kim, this, uh, this is a 30 minute podcast, not a three hour podcast. But as far as Beacon Bid goes in terms of development, client support, marketing, what's been going on?

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker D: Well, I will tell you that one of the things that really captivated me about beaconbid even before I joined the team and then definitely was one of my decisions in joining the team, is how much they listened. Um, and beaconbid really listens to our customers, to our users, to our team members. Um, and that's really how we continue to build out our platform both on the supplier side and on the public entity purchasing procurement side. Um, so for suppliers we've made things a little easier. We've added some, uh, FAQ videos. So it's really easy on how to actually upload, uh, us, you know, and submit a bid today. But just in case you need that little extra help, we've added these great little, uh, quick videos throughout the site. So anytime you see a little play button, you can watch one of those little tutorials and it takes you just a minute to watch it and understand how to do things. So I think that's really helpful. We've also expanded the supplier profile so when you're logged in, you can see different things and add different things there. Now, on the supplier side, um, as always, we keep that supplier registration super simple and easy for you. On the Beacon Pit side side, on the practitioner side, we've added a lot of things. Again, it's really all based on feedback from what our users need and I think that's fantastic because it fits with their process. It's not built specifically for them because we have to expand it into all of our customers. Um, and so that's why when we make things and we launch things, we have a fantastic development team here. When we do that, we take an idea from a customer, we expand it so that it works for everybody and then we make it configurable so it can configure how exactly the Organization uh, needs it uh, which I think is really a great thing recently um, and I won't go back too much in time because we really do roll out new features all the time. But recently we added a couple of brand new things uh, one of which is really cool and it's add on to our document builders like our document templates and actual documents that uh, go into the RFPs. And so in doing that you can have these templates with injection injectable information. Um, we're going to be kind of demoing that um at Forum and we're also sneak peek going to be launching a couple of brand new features and functionality at Forum itself. Uh so stay tuned for that on our Procure AI side and we're really bringing some of those aspects, those Procure AI aspects into other pieces of our procurement solution.

Speaker C: Very good. That's a, that's a great summary. And the only couple things I'll add there is um, since we were in Denver last year, Caitlin Kennedy um, is overseeing the client support function in Beacon Bid and she continues to build out, build out that team because we understand Kim mentioned the how TOS and people do a lot of people like to be self sufficient when it comes to working through software, working through platforms. But ah, Caitlin Kennedy again is building out that team. So if you ever do need a human being, you want to speak to somebody directly. You have Caitlin, Caitlin and her folks. And uh, something else I want to add there is I mentioned Booth 223 earlier and Kim just said it. If you want to see what be Beacon has been up to over the course of the last 12, 13 months, swing on by um and get yourself a demo. See actually what Kim and I are kind of touching upon ever so briefly. And Kim, I also want to confirm this because Beacon since it was officially launched in August of 2022, still free for agencies, still free for suppliers, right?

Speaker D: Uh yes, 100%. Now we do have paid features for our and functionality and some tools but the basic e procurement solution is free for any entity, any public entity that's out there or nonprofit. And as a supplier you will always be able to register for free and get on interest list for free, respond to bids for free, ask questions for free, etc.

Speaker C: Et cetera. Free, free, free, free free free.

Speaker D: I will add. I'm sorry I forgot to mention Caitlyn. She is fantastic. She was here before I was and so I think of her as like an old time. She knows everything. I go to her for any question I have. Uh, she is Fantastic and wonderful. And her and I do work closely on a lot of things, um, some of the, especially on the supplier side. So she does do the customer support and service for the buying organizations. However, a lot of that also folds over into our suppliers. Right. Because we have to also notify the suppliers that hey, now you're going to find all of this agency's uh, open solicitations on Beaconbit. And so she handles a lot of that. We work closely, um, announcing to the supplier community where to find uh, a new newly joined um, customers solicitations and, and, and et cetera. So she's great.

Speaker C: Yeah, she's great. I've got a saying that if Caitlin doesn't know the answer, it's not worth knowing. So tip of the cap to uh, Caitlin. And speaking of tip of the cap, tip of the cap to you Kim and to Victor. You mentioned it a little bit earlier in the segment there in Columbus at NIGP forum. You and Victor are going to grab the microphones and are going to be presenting debriefs. Demystified. Give us the little spoiler tease.

Speaker D: Yeah, sure. So, um, it is a long session, right? Uh, I'm really excited about it because we're going to actually take a deep dive. Victor, ah, and I collaborated on a webinar with NIGP back in May on the same topic. Um, but it was pretty high level because you had an hour, it was a webinar, it was virtual. Uh, we had a lot of great interaction but it was very much Victor and I talking and the audience listening. This is really changing that. Victor and I are still going to talk because if you know Victor, he talks, I talk. But we're really going to be having our uh, group that's there, our audience members that are there to learn doing the learning, hands on. So we're going to have a couple of role playing things where people have to act. We're going to give you scripts, it's going to be fun and we're all going to laugh, uh, and hopefully also clap. Um, but we're going to be doing a lot of that of what is a good and a bad debrief. We're going to be sharing some exercises that have really helped, uh, Victor and his teams that he's led on debriefs. Um, and I'm going to be sharing a lot of insight and we're going to be working through some other, the other side of the hat of uh, why things really matter to the supplier community during a debrief. Um, our session is I believe open to any supplier as well who happens to have a conference pass. So if you are a supplier and you're wondering what do I do on Sunday before the Expo starts, come on in. You will really get some good information, hearing both sides and having that interaction with, with the debrief session as well.

Speaker C: Yeah, I agree totally with what you just said. Knowledge is power. So from the supplier side of things, if you can better understand the process, I think maybe I'm wrong. I don't think I'm wrong. Um, I think it only helps you as a supplier if you can understand the debrief process. So, uh, Kim, there's a sneak peek at what you have coming up at Forum with Victoria. So if you want to give everybody a quick recap, Rick or Lauren will put um, where you can find Kim in the description of this episode along with some of her bio information. But if anybody does want to connect with you, say somebody isn't going to Columbus. How can somebody, how can people find you?

Speaker D: Sure. The best way easiest is probably through LinkedIn. Um, just type in Kim Cullen Prather long three words. I know, but you can do it. Um, you'll see me. I forget what picture I have up. I usually don't have this blonde hair. In fact, by forum it will have changed colors. Um, I forget what color hair I have in the picture on LinkedIn. But um, you'll hopefully notice me and recognize me or you can email me. Ah k c u l l e n uh, eaconbid.com and I really look forward to hopefully seeing you at forum, either in person or virtually. Our Innovation Theater session is both in person and virtual. So if you're not there, it's a great way to learn. I suggest going to all the Innovation Theater sessions that you can and a reminder to anyone who is going to forum, either virtually or in person, you can always review uh, all the sessions afterwards too that were recorded now not my Victor and Kim show on demystifying debriefs because unfortunately that one's only live. So you have to come live to see us talk about that.

Speaker C: Yeah, but there are a great, a lot of, a lot of great pieces of, uh, content out there post forum. I, I agree 100 with you there, Kim. So, um, that's going to do it, Kim. I'm going to get with Dr. Rody. I'm going to let him know you're, you're coming for.

Speaker D: Yeah, for sure. We should, you know what we should do? We should do some kind of like, like countdown or Something and like, have a. Like a two. Can you have two people on at once?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: And have us battle. I don't know what we'd battle on. I'm not a doctor. Don't know anything in that field, but it would be fun.

Speaker C: Yeah. He knows a lot about medical labs and infectious diseases, so I don't. I don't know where you stand on those topics.

Speaker D: But the interesting.

Speaker C: Yeah, speaking of interesting, it'll be very interesting to head over to Columbus. We do look forward to seeing everybody there in the great state of Ohio. Kim, again, I know I'll see you soon, but do appreciate you sitting in. In front of the microphone here on the Big Bit Theory.

Speaker D: Great. Well, thank you so much, and I look forward to seeing everybody in Columbus or online again.

Speaker A: Thank you so much to Kim for coming back on the show. So everyone go find Kim on LinkedIn. There is a link in the description of this episode. And if you're at forum, go over to booth 223. You can catch her session with Victor and. Or you'll be able to find Kim on stage there at Innovation Theater. That's, uh, on Sunday afternoon. So many opportunities to cross paths with Kim. Now let's shift gears because it's time for. For the favorite segment of the show, the favorite for many folks out there. Rick Jennings is here. Rick, tell me you've got something good for us today.

Speaker B: I sure do have something good for us, Bill. I mean, like I mentioned a little bit earlier, I wanted to keep it pretty simple for this crazy bid. Uh, so we are going to keep it pretty simple by journeying up to our friends over at the Millville Housing Authority, who is inviting sealed bids for snow removal services, um, for just about everything you'd think. Roadways, drives, parking lots, walkways, just all around this authority. Uh, so obviously, snow removal services are pretty commonplace in procurement. We see tons of them every year for all kinds of cities and counties, municipalities in areas that get snow regularly. So why is this crazy? I'm gonna tell you that this is crazy for two different reasons. So, for one, uh, let's read out the forecast for Austin, Texas for this week. Uh, we're recording this early August. And, oh, just looking at the highs that we have for the next several days. Let's see, 100, 101. Uh, might get a little bit of showers in a few days with a high still of 97 degrees. Then we're back up to 1011-011031-00103, and so on. And so Forth, as I'm sure you can guess. So it's just kind of crazy to me that procurement right now, like I said, with their crystal balls and their foresight and knowing that they are going to have to procure snow removal services in a matter of just a couple of months. I mean, here for the Millville Housing Authority, the service contract that they're bidding this out for is for November 1st of this year, 2026, through October 31st of next year 2027. They are already prepared for this. They know they are going to have to put it out for bid. And so they are giving us plenty of time to get prepared for this. So I imagine folks who are in snow removal, in, uh, salt spreaders, all this kind of machinery, are probably looking out for those kind of bids even now when we're looking at, at least in Austin, 100 degrees, 101 degrees, 103 degrees, and going forward. That's a little bit crazy to me and that is why I picked this episode's crazy bid that you can win.

Speaker A: All right, Rick is money. That was another great crazy bids you can win. Rick, thanks for bringing that to us today. And that's going to wrap up us it up. That's going to do it for this episode of the Big Bit Theory. Huge thank you to Kim Cullen for coming back on the show and giving us the inside look at Forum and everything Beaconbit has planned. And thank you to Rick Jennings for another great round of crazy bids you can win. And of course, many thanks to the TBBT production team as well. And of course, thank you to Bid prime and Beaconbid for powering this show each and every single episode. If you enjoyed this episode, do me a favor. Like it, share it, drop a comment, send us an email. It genuinely helps the show reach more people in the industry. And one more time. Actually, not one more time. I'll, uh, be giving other reminders as well, but nominations are open for the David and Beverly Nash Leadership Award. Get your nomination in@thebigbitttheory.com all of the details are there. Thank you for helping to recognize the all stars in the profession. Safe travels to everyone going and see you in Columbus at Forum. This is Bill Culhane. Until next time, go Gunners, Barracudas, Tigers, Bobcats and Cubs. And we wish you the very best.

Speaker B: Powered by Bidprime and beaconbid. We thank you for tuning in to the big Bid Theory from Austin, Texas. The show is hosted by Bill Culhane, produced by Bill Culhane and Jim Ward, and co hosted and engineered by Rick Jennings distribution, research and production assistance by Lauren Jones. You can find other episodes of the show on YouTube, iHeart, Spotify, Apple Podcast, Podcasts, Spreaker, Google Play, and among other platforms. Thank you for downloading and sharing the podcast.