Season 8 Episode 2 - Procurement & Purchasing with Bruce Tiam-Fook

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Supply Chain Central podcast, the official podcast of the Rutgers Supply Chain Association. I'm your host, Farren Martin, joined by fellow content committee member Claudia Lee. In today's episode, we are talking to Bruce Tiemfouk, lead contract specialist at NJ Transit. Tune in to hear their insights about the supply chain industry and their unique perspective working in procurement with the largest statewide public transportation system. Bruce, welcome.

Speaker C: Uh, hey guys, how are you doing? Happy to be here.

Speaker A: Yeah. Ah, well, it's good to see you again. For those of you who don't know, I worked at ND Transit this past summer as an intern under Bruce in the procurement department. And so, Bruce, for like our audience sake, could you tell us a little bit about yourself and your experiences leading up to ND Transit?

Speaker C: Well, my experiences leading up to NDA Transit. I never expected to be in the procurement industry, to be quite honest. Um, when I graduated college, I really wanted to be in the financial planning industry. But, um, after a year of looking for a job, I was like, you know, I don't know, to try anything. So I ended up in, um, state procurement under, uh, I'm sorry, not like the state entity, uh, known as Empire State Development. Uh, for those of me, those of you who know in New York, I ended up being a contract auditor. So, and it was really cool, I thought, because one of the first projects I worked on was, um, the Freedom Tower. So I go to have the contracts for rebuilding the World Trade center, as you guys probably know. Um, so they were kind of in the pinch because to be honest, I was, um, I was fresh out of college really, and even with someone with some, some years of experience. So I guess a lot of the interviews didn't go well and I kind of lucked out. So they just gave me a little trial and it turned out to be really good. And so I ended up, um, managing contracts for Lower Manhattan Development Corporation and M helped rebuild the World Trade Center. Um, so I handled those projects. I handled, uh, Atlantic Yards, um, which basically, uh, helped to build Bar Place. I don't know if you guys know Bar Place as well. The state of.

Speaker B: In Brooklyn.

Speaker C: Yeah, in Brooklyn.

Speaker B: Oh, okay. Wow. Wait, so was that in procurement or was that.

Speaker C: Well, no, for that, it was basically. So after the procurement process you have these contracts you have to manage. And so the contract auditors, they kind of manage the contracts. They pay invoices, they make sure, um, the insurance is, uh, up to date, they handle all the amendments for the exact, ah, contract. Um, they just make sure basically the vendors are Being compliant and not ripping us off. Yeah, so yeah, I did that for a number of years at various levels and guided by various people. Um, so that was a really uh, insight into the beginning of public procurement. So I got to see it on the opposite side after the contracts have been procured. Um, so that was pretty exciting. And to be honest, I kind of, I won't say fell in love with it, but like it brought me to this whole new space which I had no idea about. And so I saw my buddies in uh, like the financial world. They were like working like a hundred hour weeks and I was like, you know what, that's not for me. So, yeah, so I kind of fell into this and I would say in about 2012, ish, um, the procurement director left the um, agency and basically they picked. They basically picked me for a job. Um, so the basic procurement at Empire State, uh, is really a lot of um, professional services, advertising, architecture, engineering, construction, management, things of that nature. Uh, yeah, so, well, those are the big things. You know, as a procurement director there, it was probably this very small group, only like three people. And we handled the procurement for everything from a pencil all the way up to like major construction services for all their subsidiaries. Incorporation. Yeah. And um, I did that for about two years. And unfortunately at that time there was not a lot of room for growth. So that's how I ended up basically transitioning over to New Jersey Transit, uh, which was a completely different aspect of procurement. Um, uh, because I found here there's a lot more regulations, uh, a lot more resources as well. And at that time I felt like. I really felt like things would move quicker in a sense. Because procurement in New York, it's like you would say it's like six to eight months for like an rfp. Whereas when I came to New Jersey, I thought that process would actually decrease, uh, in time. But I would say pretty much mistaken. It's complete opposite. Even though we do have a tremendous amount of resources here compared to where I was. Um, it's just a lot more uh, regulations, uh, to deal with here. Um, so I found the construction, um, uh, procurement in when I first got here. And to be quite honest, I really, at that time I didn't really even like it because of the nature of how long things took. Um, so I actually ended up leaving after the first year. Um, and it was actually, it wasn't just that, but it was like a lot of personal issues as well. But I did like the company, I did like the people. And so which is why I ended up coming back in 2018 into, um, it's called the purchasing group over here and they handle all the rail operations, the bus operations. Uh, as you know, we're, I think we're the second largest transportation or public transportation, um, ah, division, ah, in like the entire United States.

Speaker B: I, um, think I saw, I was like in the state, like for a single state, it's like the largest transit

Speaker C: system it might be. I, I refer to this chair. So, um, yeah, so I handled. So when I got back here in 2018, you know, it was um. Man, it was a lot of work to be honest, because my director, my former colleague who became director of that department, you had a backlog of contracts where we had to get them out. Uh, so I handled everything there, including like snowplow contracts to um, safety equipment, to real flaw testing. Um, yeah, a slew of.

Speaker B: So the, like the snowplow contracts and those kind of things. So New Jersey Transit, like they lease the, like those kind of some of the equipment from other companies or do they own them or as I work

Speaker C: the actual equipment to do the work. So we, we contract different um, vendors to actually do the, the actual work. Uh, so they provide all the equipment, the salt, the manpower, um, and predominantly for all the rail stations, the parking lots, uh, the platforms where people stand, uh, things of that nature. Yeah.

Speaker B: Okay, well, I was going to say, uh, what brought to you. What brought you to like NJ Transit? Well, I guess we kind of spoke about what brought you to the company, but like what keeps you there? What makes you really enjoy working at NJ Transit?

Speaker C: Good question. I gotta think about that one. No, no, to be honest, um, I've been very blessed to work here because of the people. Like, there's a really good group of people here. And just listening to the people in other industries and workplaces, they really don't have the camaraderie and volumes to help each other. Um, whereas here, especially in my tenure here right now with it, I have a really good group of people. Oh. So I should, I should probably say, as Claudia knows, uh, in 2023, New Jersey Transit basically created their own like it group because it is so big over here and it really just needed its own like it department. Uh, so that group was created in 2023. Um, I kind of oversee that group right now. I mean there is a direct and senior director. Um, but in terms of some, um, colleagues, I kind of manage them, guide them and help them, you know, throughout the processes and things. I would like to spend more time with them sometimes. But things really get chaotic within the it, uh, space. Um, so it's really hard to manage all that time. And as you can imagine, things are like, they're understaffed and things of that nature, with really a lot of deadlines to meet as well. But I really do work with a really good group of people, and I really, really can't buy that. But everybody has their own, you know, reasons and things of that nature. But for me, it's good people and wanting us to help each other.

Speaker A: Yeah, I definitely agree. The people there were extremely welcoming and like, everyone was open to sharing and helping other people learn. Um, especially when I was there, I learned a lot. So I can confirm he's not lying.

Speaker C: Yeah, I thought it was a huge help. Um, especially at the time she came. I, um, mean, one of our. We're a small group. It's only like three people and a director at some time. Unfortunately, one of our colleagues had a health issue, uh, and Claudia kind of stepped in, really like learned the process of really quickly got things done for, uh, us. So it was very, very well appreciated.

Speaker B: Claudia was in like the purchasing group, sort of like what we're talking about before or.

Speaker C: No, she was in the IT group. The new created. Yeah.

Speaker B: So, uh, we, I mean, we kind of touched on like the differences between NJ Transit and working in the private sector. Right. It's a lot slower and you have to go through a lot more regulation with the, uh, state. But maybe to rephrase it, what about like, when you came to NJ Transit, like, looking kind of behind the scenes of something that I think most people in New Jersey, most kids that go to Rutgers, you know, they have experiences with NJ Transit, like, what's something that kind of interests that. That was interesting that you found like, behind the scenes when you were, when you came to NJ Transit.

Speaker C: Uh, behind the scenes, um, well, I don't know if we call it interesting, but all the processes here, as opposed to. You mentioned the private sector earlier. Like, I mean, we have so much more loopholes where it's like, well, I guess you could say we have two different bosses. Right. So like, um, in the, in the public space where we have to adhere to, uh, taxpayers regulations, transparency, things of that nature, in the private industry, it's more, I guess, looking towards your profit, bottom line, um, with shareholders, uh, and things really moved a lot faster in that, in that realm. So here, for instance, we have to abide by our Office of Business Development. So in the procurement space here, we have so many departments we have to reach out to before we even put an advertisement out on call the street, uh, make it public. Um, yeah, so it has to go through the Office of Business Development. They may put a small business goal on it. So we might get an estimate, um, from our project manager saying, hey, we anticipate this project will be a million dollars. And when we send it to, uh, the Office of Business Development, they'll say, hey, this, we move 10% of this to go to a small business. So whoever gets the contract, they have to have a subcontractor who that part of the pie, we can say they'll go to them. And then you have to go to our risk management department and they oversee the risk involved in the scope of work that we have. So of course we have general templates, but based on the specificity of what we're doing, those might change. What else? And then there's the legal department. Make sure we're following all our regulations, um, and make sure everything is written correctly. Uh, it makes sense, um, because there's a lot of iterations of these documents before it actually gets the street. And then what else? The federal compliance department. So for using federal funds, there's a whole slew of regulations that they have to deal with. So if our project is being federally funded, it has to go through our federal compliance department and all of that, then we finally go to, to bid, I mean, to the street to advertise. And that probably take months, you could say on. If everything were to go well, I would say maybe three to four months, uh, before we even get to advertisement. Whereas maybe a private industry, you know, that could, you could have a whole thing wrapped up in even two to three months.

Speaker A: Yeah. So, um, sorry, I mean, to interrupt you continue.

Speaker B: Sorry.

Speaker C: No, I'm just saying I, I hope I, I almost forgot too much.

Speaker B: It was just about like, what was interesting that you came, that you found when, um, you came to NJ Transit. But yeah, I mean, I don't see it like, I'm, I like to, I like to ride public transportation. Like, I'm a big, um, fan of, you know, trains, buses, you know, any sort of alternative forms of, like, transport other than, know, using a car. And so I like to ride, you know, the train a lot. And I see always, you know, people complaining about this and that New Jersey trains that. Like, I don't like, my dad isn't a big fan of like, taking the trains, everything because he's like, it's slow, like, they never. There's always these issues and they never get. It takes forever to get them Fixed. But I think a lot of people don't realize, like, you know, all the inner workings and how slow things can really be when you're working with like a state. I just understanding.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Um, definitely agree. Uh, which is why this kind of next question talks about that. So you mentioned a lot of these, like all the departments that a bid or proposal has to go through before it can finally hit the streets. So could you share a little bit about the challenges or bottlenecks that will come up specifically because of state restrictions or government regulations?

Speaker C: Uh, can you say that one more time? What are the.

Speaker A: Yeah, um, so can you share like a challenge or a bottleneck that comes up specifically because of state or government regulations?

Speaker C: And there's quite a few to it, I guess. Okay. Just to, um, draw a couple. Like, for instance, I'll just talk about the things I don't like. Um, so like maybe a challenge or a bottleneck are, uh, like, for instance, barriers, entry. For instance, we were talking about control insurance earlier. Like, we have a very set, um, insurance regulation policy in place at, uh, New Jersey Transit. And it's like a boilerplate template that we tend not to deviate from when it's quite high. These insurance policies can be extremely high. Um, for instance, our general liability policy is about $5 million. And that's from any. From any purchase almost. So if you're like shoveling snow or if you're, let's just say you're spraying weeds somewhere. So, like, it's one thing, right? If you're spraying weeds on a lawn at some office building, that should have a different criteria risk than if you're spraying weeds on a rail line system. That's a whole different set of risk requirements. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that we tend to exclude a lot of businesses because they don't meet those requirements. Whereas the risk can. Should. We should take the risk into account when we're actually doing these types of jobs. So I think that in terms of the state restrictions, I mean, I really feel we could do a better job with our insurance policy requirements. Uh, just to open up. Well, we already have a good slew of competition, but to open up the field to a broader set of businesses that are more, I guess, small, smaller. Uh, I think that's. That's one thing. Um, another thing is, um, the federal, like, federal, like dollars that we have to help come with a whole different set of regulations. Um, uh, and let's see, what else would I say? Um, oh, maybe the thing is People don't tend to budget properly. Um, like for instance we have, we only have limited staff. Right. So like people have like ah, maybe a $2 million budget, ah, that they need to use in a span of maybe two months because if you don't use it, we lose it. And those state dollars, like if you don't use those monies, the state will cut your budget. So like if they gave you 10 million and say, hey, uh, how do you only use 7 million? Well next year you're only going to get 7 trillion. It's cool. So sometimes they don't take their budgetary requirements into uh, they don't look at it all the time. So like in the end of the year we'll get slammed with a lot of procurements where we need to have them done very quickly because we need to spend this money in this process possible. So I think those are some regulatory bottlenecks that I know I tend to really don't like a lot.

Speaker A: Yeah, I definitely remember our like the flyer drills that happened during the summer and like all the deadlines that happened with it. So.

Speaker C: Yeah, in fact we just had one. Um, when, when was it? Like, like four months ago. And what this is a federal grant. And it was actually we got this grant back in maybe 2022 or 2023 and those were like three years ago. We just realized, hey, these monies are going to be up in a certain date. And the next thing you know it was a huge fire drill because these are federal dollars which require a different type of procurement. Um, and it just takes a little bit longer. So of course there was a lot of late nights here because uh, we, I guess you could say we have bad planning practices. We don't plan as, as much as we should. And that's not, and that's not anybody's fault per se because everybody here I'm pretty sure has a full page. Everybody's kind of busy so.

Speaker A: And um, a little more background of fire drill is when there is a very tight deadline and then we need to have like a rush order or work really, really fast to make sure that this project or this proposal hits the deadline. And like Bruce was mentioning, make sure we use up like the budgetary monies.

Speaker C: Yeah, Pauli was definitely instrumental in a few.

Speaker B: So I was curious a little bit. I mean I guess Claudia and Bruce, you guys can kind of answer this because you both worked um, but like a day to day in supply chain in New Jersey transit, like what does that kind of look like a day to day, like the day to day operations. Like what, what. What would somebody be like in an internship role in NJ Transit or like you know, working in supply chain at NJ Transit. Like what are the kind of like the day to day things that come up when you guys are at work?

Speaker C: M. Well I just thought little first um. I'm involved as a lead. I'm involved in a lot of meetings that I try. Like I really. I'm not a meeting person but I try because of my knowledge basically get pulled into different meetings left and right and which is cool. Um, my director, he's kind of new as well so he wants a lot of what I have to say and he'll just drive me into meetings as well. Um, so a lot of um. I guess it's a little. Not hard to answer your questions but it's a little difficult because each day in it is a little bit different and you never know what's going to come up. Like what Claudia just said in fact just last week, and I don't even know if I should be saying this but um, we found out just on a random Thursday, I think it was Thursday. Yeah. That um, our web hosting, our website is actually going to expire on sometime in January. And this is a multimillion dollar procurement where um, where we, we need to acquire our web hosting services uh before this deadline or else potentially our website is gone. So you know we found this out like last Thursday. And with the multimillion dollar procurement you can't do that in two months.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: So.

Speaker B: And especially considering all like the slowly. How slow moving the operations can be behind the scenes.

Speaker C: Yeah. And it's not like you can just transition to. On a level you can't transition to another company on a whim.

Speaker B: So.

Speaker C: Yeah. So um, we're tasked to find a resolution to this problem which I've been working on with some other colleagues. So like on a typical day something like that could potentially arise in it because a lot of these companies, they're not like um, companies you deal with in the purchasing side where they're more um, flexible per se. A lot of the IT companies uh, we deal with are very stringent on when they get the money. Kind of timeless when they get their contracts is very deadline oriented because potentiality of losing service to any individual company is very damaging. So yeah, the day to day it can be chaotic. Okay.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah that does.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: I definitely say uh, you never know what you're going to expect when you walk into the office. Um Ruth, like you already mentioned it, it's Some things might just pop up in the middle of the day when you're working on something else, and you just have to learn how to pivot and navigate your time accordingly.

Speaker B: Okay. Trying, um, to think of any other questions. I mean, I'm learning a lot about NJ Transit and kind of how you guys work behind the scenes. Um.

Speaker C: Hm.

Speaker B: I think of a. Trying to think of a good question here. Yeah, I guess you want to share something with.

Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, so you touched on compliance in the beginning of this podcast. So I wanted to, you know, like, ask you to share a little more about why transparency and like, all of that is a major factor within purchasing and, like, the procurement side. Because, um, like when I was working there, compliance was a huge deal. And like, um, internal audits, we need to make sure everything was according to regulations. So can you share why, like, transparency is such a major factor in government purchasing?

Speaker C: Well, I mean, for me, when I think of transparency, I just think of, like, I've. I've never been in the private, um, procurement space. I've always been in public. So once you think of the public procurement, it's transparency, like the backbone. Right. Because without it, like, lose trust. You know, stories about potential corruption. Um, whereas we need to be fair, open, honest, we need to be accountable to all our stakeholders, uh, the taxpayers for sure, and more importantly for me, um, the vendors, because they have to know that when they're bidding on something that they actually have a fair and reasonable chance to, um, acquire these contracts. Because first, it's an R key. I mean, it could take months to create a proposal, for instance, to, you know, to even send it in, um, for our procurement. So when you're putting in all this work, you want to make sure that everything is fair across the board. Of course. We have to, um, keep everything compliant. We have to keep very good records. Uh, as you know, Claudia, you can have an Oprah request, uh, what is that called? It's open, uh, public records pact. Well, basically, you know, we can potentially have our contract sent over to anyone who puts in Oprah class. Yeah. So it's very good that we keep good records and, uh, everything is, you know, very open and honest.

Speaker B: We're kind of nearing our time here, but I kind of want to ask, um, since this is a podcast really developed, developed and targeted for students interested in a career in the supply chain field, uh, and learning more about it, like, what skills would you recommend that students focus on to prepare for a career in the field, or any advice for students interested in pursuing procurement, either At a state level or, um, at the private level.

Speaker C: Uh, well, skills. Um, you definitely need to be organized. Uh, for sure. Got to have good communication skills because you're dealing with people all day, whether vendors, your stakeholders, obd, risk, legal department people. Um, all day. Um, you have to have very good writing skills. They're constantly editing documents, revising documents, creating memorandums. Uh, so your written communication has to be very good. Uh, you have to be very responsible. Uh, which is why I like Claudia, because she was extremely responsible. Um, you know, when you say you have to be there, you have to be there. Like, for instance, being on a site visit, we have to be on time. Um, what else? Oh, you said advice. So know, I think the one advice I can give to people is something I'm learning about, actually. And because my, actually my dad, he's really big into this, but is artificial intelligence. Um, he's really big into investing into these companies and stuff. And he's all up about how AI is changing all these industries. And I've started to look into it, and I feel now more than ever, especially like the, uh, younger generations, such as yourselves, really need to focus on the impacts of AI as it progresses. This seems to be progressing at a very fast rate, and especially now you guys are at Rutgers. I'm not sure what year you're in, but you should be questioning your professors and their thoughts on this. Uh, basically looking at all the resources you have in terms of industry leaders or whoever you can talk to, to figure out what's happening not only in the procurement world or supply chain, but in all the other industries which lean as well. Um, I don't know if you guys have any thoughts of AI if you're learning about it. Um, but it'd be good to hear your perspective, if you have any, on that as well.

Speaker B: I mean, in class, we haven't really been using AI the extent. Again, I'm kind of new to supply chain, so I'm, I'm a junior, but this is like my first real semester where I'm taking a lot of supply chain, like, uh, major courses. And I think the extent was like my professor for an essay we had. Well, I mean, it was a demand planning course, so we had to, we got like a forecast. We had to figure out, you know, how to, um, minimize their, uh, costs a production. But he was like, you know, he said you can use like, AI ChatGPT or Gemini, just like, cite it. But, you know, we haven't talked about. I think also because a lot of my professors, you Know they're not like working in the industry anymore. And so AI was kind of like, you know, last two, three years that's really been blowing up. Um, and so they don't really have any experience with that.

Speaker C: So I don't know.

Speaker B: Interesting for. I guess we, maybe we may be learning like a more outdated perspective. And I hope when I get to the um, get into a job and a position in supply chain, it's not like completely like outdated or something. But yeah, that's my perspective.

Speaker A: I actually have a different perspective. My project management professor, she um, like told us a lot about different AI resources that we can use and like within project management as a sector, they really need like AI. It can help with analyzing data and everything. But she always specified and emphasized do not just trust the AI. You have to make sure you review all the information that comes out and make sure you do your fact check. We had so many examples in class of times. AI gave out something and their outputs were complete trash because of the garbage in, garbage out, uh, policy and like, all of that. So my perspective is very different than Faren's. But we have been talking about it and like depending on your class, depending on your professor, you'll hear a lot about AI or you'll hear a, like a positive side or you'll hear a negative side. And that's.

Speaker C: I'm glad you guys are getting the um, exposure to it. And it's funny that you guys talked about like, yeah, uh, how it's being integrated because I know our risk management department, um, but the previous director used it a lot and I inherited that. But um, he. It's very outside the box thinker. So he said he used uh, chatgpt a lot. Uh, and I know our legal department is also using that. Um, I don't know how hopefully legally, but I don't know. But yeah, um, but yes, being solely implemented here, I think. I, um, don't know at what scale. Um, well, yeah, it'll be interesting to see how it does affect supply chain and the, you know, the industries as a whole.

Speaker B: Yeah, a lot of, uh, a lot of questions built to be answered with that. I feel like. So we'll see, we'll see where it's at when we get out of. When we graduate. Um, but uh. Yeah, thank you, Bruce. Thank you for your time. It was a great conversation.

Speaker C: Oh, well, thank you guys. It was a lot of fun and definitely important and happy holidays.