Build a Book of Business One Conversation at a Time, with Deb Feder

I strongly push back at anybody who says that either you're a rainmaker or you're not, you're going to be a business developer or you're not. I think everybody can. It's all about really honing in on what is your strengths? What energizes you, right?

What are the topics that, truthfully, you could geek out on all day long? Welcome back to the Balancing Act podcast. I'm Andy Tempe. On The Balancing Act, we talk to business leaders and industry experts to explore the balancing acts we play in our professional lives and learn about the events that put rocket boosters behind their career success.

Today, we have Deb Fetter joining us. For the past 14 years, Deb has partnered with lawyers, leaders, and law firms as a speaker, facilitator, and advisor to make relationship building more intentional, structured, and effective. She's the author of three books on business development, and her most recent work is, Might I Suggest, Becoming the One Client's Turn to Time and Again. Today, we're going to talk about business development.

Welcome to the show, Deb. Thanks, Andrew. Thanks for having me. Excellent.

Well, please give our listeners the elevator pitch version of your story. So I have to tell you, I always talk to people about how you don't need an elevator pitch so it kills me that I'm giving you one, but I will. Right from the start, I help lawyers and professionals build great practices through a consistent flow of great clients. That's at the heart of everything I do.

Not by working more and scrambling and trying to get out there, but by really building strong connections, using conversations to solve problems and identify opportunities, and share your expertise naturally as a relationship connector and expander. That's awesome. Great elevator pitch, by the way. Thanks.

And just FYI for our listeners, if it feels like Deb and I are having just a little bit more fun today than we normally have with guests, it's because both of us went to the University of Iowa together. So today is kind of a University of Iowa love fest. It's like a homecoming. That's right.

Deb, if you had to pick an event in your life that was a key accelerant for your career, what would that be? You know, I love this question. And I thought long and hard about it. I think that it really is when my grandmother was in her late 90s.

So my mom had passed away years prior. And my grandmother came to live in Kansas City in her very late 90s. And I was the only family member nearby. And so it really became this massive juggling act of growing and managing a book of business, two small kids.

Now it was before we even called it the sandwich generation, but it turns out that's what it was. And I really had this epiphany that we had to not just, I'd already launched my business, but we had to really think through how to build a business and a career while life was happening, not waiting for the lulls. I think until that point, I had really kind of gone with the flow of like we fit it in and we make everything fit. And I, at that point, tore everything apart and rebuilt everything that I do for clients and for myself, because I just recognized that this is something that happens to all of us.

Yeah, yeah. Before we pressed the record button on the show, we were talking about our experience in Iowa. and both of our children were born in Iowa City during that period, that crush of graduate school, earning a Ph.D.

, building a business. And, yeah, you know, there is something to be said for the just getting after it, but the intentionality that you put around that just getting after it, I think is a lesson that we can all learn from. So thank you. Thank you for that.

All right. Deb, it's been a while since I've had an attorney on the show to talk about business development. I like this subject a lot, but because most law practices are small businesses, and it's always baffled me why entrepreneurship and business management aren't real core components of a law school curriculum. From your vantage point, what are the primary challenges that this disconnect creates for fresh, newly minted attorneys?

So before I get there, I think that all law practices, whether you are in a big law firm or on your own or as part of a smaller organization, have an entrepreneurial bend. I think you're absolutely correct that you are running and managing a book of business or what is really equates to a business, even inside a big umbrella, right? And it builds over time. I actually think when we step back and we equate, we look at how med school is like managed and like grown.

You go to med school and learn, you know, pieces of the practice of medicine, but you don't really learn how to become a doctor until you're in your residency. I think the first three or four years that you're practicing is really your residency. So if we take it that way and think, I have to learn about the practice of law and the technical skills during law school, it makes a little bit more sense that we're not trying to get you out there and bringing in business from day one.

Because first, we got to get you some legs under you and your practice to figure out what kind of practitioner you're going to be, right? That being said, I do think that there is a space for practice skills, practice strategy that could be in law schools, right? But then if you're thinking, okay, what do you do, right? How do you get out there and start it as a fresh lawyer?

I know it sounds a slightly cliche and I don't mean it. I don't mean racing to networking events, But I do think understanding how to build, nurture and grow that network is your key to success. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, let's go from there to our first mentorship moment of the day. I going to give you a 22 year old college grad and let have that college grad be from Michigan which is where you came from You got this college grad sitting right in front of you right now They been accepted to a prestigious law school Maybe it the University of Iowa and they have aims to build their own practice in the future. What should this individual be doing right now to set themselves up for success?

So first of all, I have to tell you, I have a sophomore in college and a son who is heading off to college. So I have these conversations all the time with my kids and their friends, right? I get these phone calls, hey, can you help me? And I love, this is like one of my most favorite kinds of work to do.

So, and first of all, good choice for this mentorship moment for them choosing Iowa. I approve, I think it's a great choice. I think there are four things to do. Number one, get out of your comfort zone every single day.

Like actually embrace the scary, embrace the weird. The more that you can use this time in school, to do that, the better off you're going to be for understanding that that is just practice for your career and for life. And wouldn't you agree that like, that's the key to so much of what we talk about? I think that the next one is don't worry.

Like I said at the beginning, I kind of joked about the elevator speech. Don't worry so much about your introduction right now, but get really good at listening to others. Get curious about others. Practice curiosity about the people around you, the world in which we live, and asking the next question.

Our world is so noisy. We have so much social media, news, constantly people trying to be the expert. We don't have a tremendous number of people being quiet and listening. So it turns out it's a superpower.

Yeah. Right. And then I think I got to go back to starting to just not just build a network, but follow up with people. Be the person that is reliable and circles back, checks in on the classmate who seemed to be having a bad day.

Congratulate somebody else. Building those light touch everyday moments as a part of who you are will speak volumes when it turns to getting a job. It'll also let you see who aligns with you and your values. Well, Deb, you've written three books, and it's a series.

After Hello, Tell Me More, and Might I Suggest. What's the thread that ties all of these works together? And as you're discussing that thread, I want to ask you a very specific question. You mentioned it.

We live in an attention economy. So if a potential reader can only have make the time to dive into one of those three books, which one would you want them to read and why? Okay, so let's back up. The thread is this, that after hello gets you into the conversations.

Tell Me More takes your everyday moments and interactions and really allows you to be involved in the conversation, becoming the trusted person that clients can count on because you're showing up, right? And might I suggest actually puts you into the equation and allows you to share your expertise and be the resource that is not just one project, but that real trusted thinking partner that clients can rely on, refer, circle back to all the things, whether it is in your, you know, specialty space or not.

You're just a really great partner in this for clients. Might I suggest actually asks that you think about yourself as the CEO of your business. And we talk about having monthly business meetings for you and your practice. How do you think about this?

Because we think all those things as team related or corporate America, you know, corporate related, But we don't really think about it as if you're running a business, then act like it. And might I suggest makes that shift. As for which book, here's the thing. It depends.

It depends on what stage you're at and where you really want to start. I record each of the books for Audible at a sound studio here in Kansas City. And I asked the sound engineer at might I suggest, I said, so I got to ask, like, you've been through all of these with me. What do you think of the book?

And he said, Deb, I'm going to be really honest. I don't think of them as books. I think of each chapter as a different conversation with you. And he said, that's how they, that's the feel of them.

That's how they're recorded. So what I would say to you is think of them as mini podcasts, mini conversations. Pick one that's interesting to you, right? Scan the table of contents, pick one.

And it's okay if you have to like jump in and then double back. because I would rather somebody start where they're interested than thinking that they've got to really like start at the beginning and do everything. We do that in my programs from time to time. But at the end of the day, getting somebody engaged and interested in where they're at to me is the win.

Yeah. Well, that is excellent. And again, this conversation, we're focused on the law community and professional services. But this is for business developers everywhere.

And oh, by the way, if you're a CEO, if you're a chief financial officer, you are a business developer. So this conversation is for literally everyone. And we'll be right back with Deb Fetter. Want to understand money, markets and the economy to make better financial decisions?

I'm Andy Tempty. Join me every Saturday morning for Money Lessons with Andrew Tempty on YouTube or your favorite podcast streaming service. And we're back with Deb Fetter talking about business development for professional services firms. Deb, can you give us an example of an attorney?

You don't have to name names, but an attorney who's the exemplar for turning everyday conversations into a business development pipeline. And I an educator I all about competency So what are the most important elements of the competency profile for this individual It was such a great question So first of all I think that there is no one competency I strongly push back at anybody who says that either you're a rainmaker or you're not, you're going to be a business developer or you're not.

I think everybody can. And I've seen it and I've worked with everybody. it's all about really honing in on what is your strengths? What energizes you, right?

What are the topics that truthfully you could geek out on all day long? And do you know your style and are you willing to find that flow? If you keep trying to show up where everybody says you're supposed to be, but it's just simply not energizing for you, it's not aligned for your clients, you walk out deflated, it's really hard to build business from that energy, right? But if you can stand there and talk about really what you love, and it may be work-related.

It may be very substantive. It might be just the practice in general or an industry. It also might be a whole lot of small talk, right? I have some clients who rarely get into the expertise when they are building business, but their expertise follows them.

They've got great credentials. They're well known in the field, but they're very good at connecting to the people behind the projects. And that works really well for them. I have others who really do love the substance and they light up when they talk about it.

And I tell them all the time, I'm like, I'm not interested at all in this topic, but you're so excited, I'm now excited. And what we do is we capitalize on that excitement. So I think it's a matter of knowing yourself and be willing to shift and find that flow. That is the magic combination.

Yeah, I like that you've used that word flow a couple of times. And I, you know, in the business community, I have this mindset of, you know, showing up as your whole self versus strapping on this, an emotional suit of armor to, you know, try to clunk around in a setting where you don't feel comfortable, where you don't feel like you connect, where you can't connect. with that flow that you're talking about. So, you know, follow the, follow the, it sounds awfully quaint, but follow the passion, follow what you're passionate about is really what I'm hearing and a lot will follow.

Is that right? Yes. And I think also we spend so much time thinking through things. Our brains are so well-developed.

They are such a strong muscle that we forget to like get back into our bodies and like get centered and grounded. So when we show up like perfectly put together, we appear flat. Yeah. Right.

And we're so worried about things falling apart. I once had a preschool mom say to me, you look all put together, but you certainly are not. And I laughed and I said, it took you this long to figure out that like I could fall apart at any moment. I had two very small kids.

I mean, you know, I was just trying my best every day. But that line is stuck with me, right, as we don't actually want to appear perfectly put together. People want to. Now, that doesn't mean this is not a permission slip for be sloppy, show up as a hot mess.

Like, that's not it. But people do really want the energy that connects between other people to be leading the way. Yes. Authenticity.

Thank you so much for that. Deb, this is mentorship moment number two. You now have the managing partner of a 20-attorney practice sitting in front of you right now. You know, not a really small firm, not a really big one.

The firm has done well since its inception, but is now facing headwinds from increased competition. Business development hasn't really been a priority. It's just kind of all fallen into place in the past. But the MP is realizing they need to improve in this area to thrive.

what's your advice to this individual? Where do they start? So this is the work I do a lot, whether it's a 20 person group within a large firm, a boutique practice, it doesn't matter really the size. It's that, hey, what we've done so far has gotten us here, but it's not going to get us there.

Right. So the first moment is to realize we have to shift and change and I have to be willing to change at the top and allow others to change with me, right? So I think where we start typically is recognizing the strengths in the room, what really does set us apart and can we talk about it without making it about the other guy. So that's a real hallmark of a mature practice is being able to talk about what makes you great without making it a big comparison story.

Then from there, going back and really re-energizing your network and recognizing where are their holes? Do we have holes in adding new people to the network? Is it how we're nurturing our current clients or potential clients, the people that were really our referral partners? Do we have referral partners?

Can we identify who those are? And then how do we share our expertise in a way that's not like just a constant sales pitch? Yeah. So we break down each of those elements and say, where is our, you know, easy button right now?

And then what do we have to keep our eyes on and start really focusing on for some longer term projects? Yeah. Well, I just love that what you said about the senior executive has to come along on the journey. They have to make a change.

I've made this mistake in my career where I thought, Well, we're going to adopt this new way of working, but I'm going to be somehow exempt from that change. That's just something for all of you to do. And that doesn't work very well, to be blunt. It doesn't work very well.

And it usually one of the questions that I start out as a defining moment of whether or not this is going to be a great working relationship and project that excites me because if I dragging people along that not fun for me It the group that shows up and says we are ready but we have no idea where to start Game on. Yeah, great. Deb, what have we not talked about today that you want to make sure that our listeners take away from this conversation? You know, I have clients across many professional service types of businesses and in different roles.

I think that when you go old school, right, the old school method, as much as we want to embrace new technology and new ways of being and thinking fast and using AI, And AI absolutely can supplement and support your business development. At the end of the day, the great books of business and the great careers are pretty old school. They're built at conversations around the table, lingering for five minutes. Doesn't take hours and days to do this.

Most of it is done in five and 10 minute chunks that really do energize the relationship, spark the next opportunity and allow you to follow up and follow through. And those that do that are the ones that over and over again, like have the stronger practice, the more energizing practice, the ones that are bringing others in and teaching it to others over and over again. Yeah. Excellent.

Thank you, Deb. Let's have a little fun before we say goodbye, shall we? Okay, let's do it. All right.

Three lightning round questions. Deb Fetter, you've just won a $100 million lotto jackpot, but there's a stipulation that half of your net winnings go to one philanthropic organization or a general cause. Who do you pick? Okay, so I'm not allowed to, but I kind of have like two or three, but let me explain to you the thread, okay?

I know I'm cheating here. I lost my mom to cancer way too young, okay? So, yes, the cancer research and support for families with cancer and for terminal illness back to the we need support for life is going to happen for everybody. Any organization that is supporting us as a as whole communities to be able to make things work, I think, do just the incredible work out there.

That being said, my mom believed in potential and possibilities. And I do, too. It's a hallmark of everything that I do. And I think that if there are ways and the organizations that help give access to everyone to experience networking, to have access to people who will help with networking, to help you get that foot in the door, there is something about that first win that can make a difference for everybody.

And it should not be based on what network you've had for, you know, years or where you grew up. I truly believe that any person deserves the chance to have a place in the room. And the more that we can help everybody build conversations, our world is better when we're talking. And the strong relationships help all the wins.

And it's not just about building business, but how we help our neighbors, our communities, our world be better is one conversation at a time. And to the extent that I can help support that, I'd give it all my money. Yeah, that's great. Deb, I give you access to a really small time machine and you can send a message to an earlier version of yourself.

What's the message and what previous version do you send it? Oh, I don't know who needs to hear this, but they probably all do. And I think the message is very simple. Dude, you won't believe what happens next.

Keep an open mind, be flexible, be creative, let it, let it, allow it to happen. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome.

Deb, we're all works in progress. What are you focused on right now in your personal journey of growth? So with every book project and every big work project, I have learned that I shift and grow to bring it to life. and there's different things that have happened at each stage of this journey as an entrepreneur, as a professional.

The work that I'm most focused on right now is, you know, the client conversation series is the mechanics. It's client, it's conversations, it's relationships, it's networking. But there wasn't room within the series for a whole lot of discussion about who you have to become to embrace the change, to pivot and to take on what's next. So I have a project right now that is focused on what just that and who do we have to become to be like growth first, right?

So not just waiting to have the time and the space for growth, but really feeding that muscle and for ourselves, becoming that person that embraces what's next. Excellent advice. Deb, where can folks get a hold of you? DebFetter.

com is my website. I'm on LinkedIn all the time. Happy to connect over there. And there is on my website a resource center with all sorts of, I mean, I'm a big believer in like, let's just sprinkle this stuff out there.

So at debfetter.com clients, you can get access to my resource center and a whole bunch of downloads and tools and tricks. But just email me if you've got questions. I'm always happy to answer, help out, jump into a question.

Excellent. Deb, it's been an absolute pleasure getting to know you. Thank you for your contributions to our listeners today. Thank you, Andrew, for having me.

All right. My name is Andy Tempty. This is the Balancing Act podcast. You can find us on all the major streaming services as well as out on YouTube.

Please like, subscribe, rate, and most importantly, share this public educational good with your friends, your family, your colleagues, and maybe a neighbor. The show is produced by Nicholas Temte, and we'll see you next time on The Balancing.