#211 - Breaking Barriers: How One Woman Redefined Resilience in Business

Speaker A: Tell me a little bit about the power that you've stepped into as a woman, uh, in business recently, and some of the decisions that you've made, uh, that have really kind of empowered you, which some people might think would almost do the opposite. Like, in other words, they might feel like they're missing out on stuff, but you have made some decisions that have really empowered you, and it's really kind of beautiful to watch.

Speaker B: You know, I think there's nothing more powerful than a woman who knows her value and a woman who believes in herself and a woman who knows that she can stand on her own two feet. And my, um, personal perspective is I don't have any problem saying I'm going to rely on someone or that I need someone. You know, Mike, I rely on you. I need you. And at my core, I have now come to a place where I know my value, I believe in myself, and I know that if I need to, you know, I can stand on my own two feet.

Speaker A: All right, well, my name is Mike Alden, and this is the Alden Report, folks. It's been almost three years since our last episode, and, boy, things have changed. You know, my personal life has changed, my. My business life has changed, my location has changed, and the world certainly has changed. But I am super excited to be back. I am even more excited for my next guest. My next guest is my wife. That's what I said. My wife, Dr. Taryn Marie Staskel. Dr. Taryn Marie is the world's leader on resilience. She speaks all over the world about resilience and how to ultimately become a better person and also how to overcome challenges, changes, and complexity throughout your life. She's the author of the book the Five Practices of Highly Resilient People. This book is a number one Wall Street Journal bestseller. It sold all over the world, translated in multiple languages, and she continues to change people's lives each and every day. You know, I used to say this almost three years ago, and I'm going to say it again. This is one of those episodes. The guests that we have on the all the report are the best. The best, the top people in the world. But this is definitely one of those episodes that you're not going to want to miss a single word. And you're certainly going to want to share this with your friends, your relatives, and your neighbors. So please help me welcome Dr. Taryn Marie Stayskal. Thank you so much for being here.

Speaker B: I'm helping you welcome me. Hello. I am delighted to be here and honored to be on the show. And super honored, if that's a thing. Uh, beyond honored, whatever. Beyond honored is to be your first guest back for the Alden Report.

Speaker A: You know, we've been talking about this for a while. I think I originally invited you on maybe, like, two and a half years ago, and for some reason, I think I. I don't know, maybe I dropped the ball or something.

Speaker B: Yeah, you did ask me to be on your podcast when my book was coming out, the Five Practices of Highly Resilient People. And then for whatever reason, it didn't work. And since that time, I have become even more of a believer in divine timing and trusting the process and that things will happen when they're meant to happen. And so I know that today's episode was meant to happen just like this.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think you're right. You know, um, it's funny, when we talked about preparing for the show, we didn't really talk a lot about it, but I've been kind of talking to myself about it and, you know, uh, a lot about me, and I know obviously a lot about you and kind of like how I roll, so to speak. And, uh, as we're talking right now, I don't. I still don't believe that I have my first question that I was going to ask you, but I think I kind of do. So let's just jump right into it. So this book is really. And we'll talk about. I don't know what we're going to talk about, but we're going to talk about how we met. But this book, um, was released in April of, uh, 2023. It was your first book, um, before we get into the book and kind of what's happened, kind of give us the Reader's Digest version of how you got here to the. When you ultimately were to put this book together.

Speaker B: Yeah. So one of the stories I haven't told a lot, which I think will be super interesting for our audience, because I know a lot of people that are listening, are thinking about writing a book. Uh, have an idea, have an outline, are thinking about being an author. I was getting my hair done today, and I was writing notes in a. In a notebook. And a woman, and the woman who was doing my hair, she said to me, are you a writer? You know, and I. I don't know how I would have answered that three years ago. But because I published this book and also a compilation book called Triumphs of Transform, I feel like I can very confidently say, yes, I am a writer. Um, but the road to publishing that first book, the five Practices of Highly Resilient People, why Some Flourish When Others Fold, was very much a meta parallel lesson in resilience. Not just because the book itself emerged over the course of really two decades of me being really interested in how we as, uh, people effectively face the moments of challenge, change and complexity, or the big three Cs as I call them. So there's 20 years of me having interviewed hundreds of people and collecting thousands of pieces of data. So that's for all of you out there that are analytical thinkers that are like, is this just like some, you know, like five practices model that she, like, made up at her kitchen table during the pandemic? No, it really was two decades of, um, interviews with people, people from all walks of life around how people most effectively face their moments of challenge, change, complexity. But when I had the manuscript done, it actually took me six years to bring the manuscript to life. And I bounced around the publishing industry for about four and a half of those years before I met an incredible agent by the name of Shannon Marvin, who I truly adore, who helped me navigate the publishing, uh, process in the publishing industry, which is very not intuitive. And so, um, what I want to say is, for anyone who is interested in publishing a book, whether it's essays or poetry or short stories or fiction or nonfiction, you know, your voice absolutely matters. And that book or that idea that you have in your head, like the world deserves to get to experience that idea, that story, that perspective. And I almost gave up because I had a couple of agents. They didn't really understand the project. Anyway, you know, long story short, I am, um, so grateful that I had the opportunity to bring this book to life because it really was a portion of my life's work. And I'm so grateful that I didn't give up and that I tapped into some of those practices of resilience. One of them is productive perseverance. And, um, the literary industry is tough to navigate. It's tough to get your book published, and it's also very tough to sell your book and get the word out. Um, and I hope that that doesn't stop anyone from bringing your idea forward in the way that it almost stopped me.

Speaker A: Well, thank you for that. You know, as you're talking, you know, we met and we'll talk at some point as a result of your book. Um, but the process of writing the book, as you kind of alluded to a little bit, is a long process. Um, as a professional, as a former executive at Nike and Cigna, uh, and an executive consultant. What was it that really, uh, kind of, um, made you want to write the book? Because I meet a lot of people that talk about the stories that they have or the things that they want to do, but they ultimately just never do it. Was there one particular reason or was there a bunch of reasons? Like why did you ultimately write the book?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, that taps into a really kind of early childhood experience that, you know, people who are listening today who are familiar with my work may have heard the story. Many people haven't. I've talked about this, uh, in my TED talk, which also has, you know, around 1.2 million views. And when I was 14, I essentially came to the realization that I had a stalker. And, um, that happened the second time that he came to our house. The first time I was told, you know, it was a fluke, just someone kind of passing through the neighborhood, don't worry about it. And the second time, my parents were out of town and I was in my childhood bedroom when he showed up again. And he said, I've been waiting a long time for this. And I remember standing there in my bedroom when, you know, sometimes our life changes very gradually, you know, and we kind of look back over time and say, oh, like, look, you know, all these, you know, kind of little, you know, I turned left and I turned right and these little shifts that I made. This was a moment where my life changed precipitously in an instant where I went from kind of this naivete as a 14, 15 year old girl, you know, in my childhood bedroom, to coming to a place when he said that I've been waiting a long time for this, to knowing that this was someone that was targeting me, that I was going to need to protect myself, and that places that had been sacred and safe for me, such as my childhood bedroom, were no longer going to hold that sense of being a sacred, safe place. And we had some babysitters staying with us and I called for them to, you know, come down, help, you know, and they had little kids of their own that they were doing the nighttime routine with, you know, upstairs in a different area of our house. And I remember he said to me through the window, he said, no one is going to come and help you. And, you know, I spent a really large portion of my life, like two decades trying to prove him wrong. You know, like, I didn't want him to be right. Um, and so when I think about why did I write this book, very early on I faced a significant challenge. This man went on, when I Went away to college to brutally attack and sexually assault another woman in our neighborhood. This was a very dangerous person. And at a young age I was dealing with fending off, warding off someone of this caliber. And I thought, wow, challenge is really hard. Change is really hard. Life has gotten really complex and I didn't have the tools to really deal with what was happening in my life. And I thought, I'm going to go out and find the tools and I'm going to ask people how do they affect, uh, you know, most effectively deal with their challenges. And so the inquiries started from that experience with a stalker and from me saying, wow, these moments in life are really tough. I don't necessarily have the tools. How can I learn the tools? And how can I learn from other people who have faced their own challenges, you know, more effectively than I knew how to at that time.

Speaker A: Taking a deep breath. I, um, remember the first time I saw your TED Talk and you told this story. And um, I was in my car and I, and I, and I started crying thinking, uh, about, you know, that moment as a, as a young girl. Um, we didn't know each other that well at the time, but it was really, um, you know, as a father with a, with a 19 year old daughter, um, and just thinking about how traumatic that must have been for you, um, you know, um, it makes me sad. Right? You know, and as I'm, as I'm smiling, trying not to cry on the podcast, uh, I, I, I'm smiling because, because you're my wife. And this is the first time I've ever interviewed anyone that, that I know, like as much as I know you. Uh, and so I know a lot of this story and I'm so glad that you shared it because I know that you've been on some progress, pretty big podcast, and, and have decided not to, not to share that story. So as you told this very vulnerable story, which is one of the practices which I, I, I, I think I, I think I want to spend a decent amount of time on. So as you start to write the book and so, so you're younger, you're in your, you're in your teens, you, you know, you, you graduate high school, you go on to college, you get your master's, you, um, so then you, you know, I'm just kind of like fast forwarding a little bit, uh, you know, so then you start to think about writing the book, right? Um, what was it for you that really said, okay, I want to put this, you know, on paper. Was it because you wanted to share with the world. Like, hey, you're not alone. Like, everybody, you know, they're, you know, everybody has their own difficult experiences. I want to tell you mine and I want to tell you how I got through it. Like, what was really the impetus for you to put it in paper? And then really again, your TED Talk was one of the first things where people learned that story. But why the book?

Speaker B: Mhm. Yeah. Well, I think what I'll say, um, of the world today, and it's been this way for some time, is that we are living at least here in sort of the Western world in the United States, in sort of a culture, in a society that I believe is continuing to become progressively more isolated. I believe people are becoming, um, angrier, more frustrated. There's an epidemic of loneliness that's happening amongst all of us. And what's really, um, what's really sad, what's really notable is that a lot of times people feel alone or lonely when they're in a room with their family or friends or colleagues in a room full of people. And so the first reason that I wrote this book was because when I was going through that experience with the stalker from 14 to 18, I felt profoundly alone. Um, like many women, you know, I have not experienced sexual assault. Uh, I was fortunate in the sense that I was able to think quickly and act quickly and lock doors and barricade myself in different parts of the house until police were able to get there to help. And I was able to avoid that. Um, you know, 25 of women are sexually assaulted. It is a, you know, monstrosity, uh, of women that experience that. And every woman has been in a moment where they've felt afraid of that happening. Um, you know, every woman has, you know, held her keys in her hand or, you know, lingered too long or walked more quickly or walked more slowly. Feel really m. Emotional about this today, I, I guess. And um, I, I, you know, it's um, that's the vulnerability of emotion that um, is really powerful. And so the first reason I wanted to write this book is it's, it's not just about women and it's not just about a stalker or sexual assault, but it's like every single one of us has faced a capital C challenge in our life. And the vast majority of us aren't talking about it. The vast majority of us sort of have this slip of paper in our pocket and we don't take it out and we don't talk about it. We don't show it to people because the Vast majority of us are afraid that if we told people about this experience that we had, if we were honest about who we are, that people might see us differently in some way and not necessarily in a good way. And so I thought, you know, I felt profoundly alone when I was going through this challenge. And, um, I wrote the book to answer your question. So that even if someone didn't feel comfortable talking to a single other person in their life, even if they didn't have even one person, a teacher, a friend, um, you know, a mentor, a parent, a neighbor that they could talk to, they could have me, and they could read this book and they could have the tools to effectively work through their challenge and so that no one ever again would have to face challenge alone

Speaker A: again. Deep breath. If the camera's on me now, my eyes are closed. I'm taking a deep breath. I wanna, um. I'll just. I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I'm gonna break the fourth wall a little bit. I could run downstairs and go hug my wife right now, and I kind of really want to, but I will in a couple minutes.

Speaker B: Baby.

Speaker A: Um. Boy, you know, um, I know the story, and I can feel the tears coming up for me a little bit right now. Um, as you know, I don't think a lot of people know I'm also a crier. Uh, and, uh, it is, um, really, really, um, beautiful of you to, to share this in, in, in such a vulnerable way, because, you know, you and I are together every day, and I. And I know what a beautiful person you are and the challenges that you've been through, but to share this part of it publicly, because your TED Talk talks about some of this stuff, but not this deep. And when I said, hey, this is going to be one of those episodes you're not going to want to miss. Honestly, like I said before, you, uh. And I didn't even talk about it. I didn't even know exactly where we're going to go, and I still don't know exactly where this whole thing is going to go. But, you know, thank you, uh, you know, for, for sharing that. And since we're talking about it, vulnerability, I'm gonna maybe try to lighten it up a little bit about, about vulnerability. You know, you are known, um, for, you know, resilience. Right. The five practices of highly resilient people. Even before that, you know, you were, you were speaking about it. I, I, you know, I had mentioned it, um, before, you know, you're, you're, you're dealing with, you know, not Fortune 50, Fortune 100, Fortune 5 companies. You're dealing with some of the biggest companies in the world. You're a management consultant. You work with, you know, um, you know, uh, executives that are um, high level executives in helping their mindset and ultimately and helping them, um, you know, to be, to be resilient. But one of the things that I think that a lot of people don't know about you, uh, which I do, uh, is your resilience as a businesswoman. Right. So you talk a lot about, you know, mindset and overcoming these very difficult things like you just talked about. But I'd love to, to, I'd love for the world to, to start to hear about you as a businesswoman. So, um, let me just set it up a little bit. So you, uh, were, uh, you know, an executive at, at Nike. You were an executive at Cigna, and um, you know, kind of like, you know, kind of the top of the top. And you ultimately decided that you were going to leave Nike, uh, and um, and start your own, um, company. Um, tell us a little bit about that, that, that story, what happened, and then we'll, you know, I'll probably have some more questions as you go.

Speaker B: Yeah, um, you know, it's interesting. When I departed from Cigna and I was going to Nike and I had announced that, you know, publicly and to my colleagues, a lot of people said to me at that time, they're like, you know, I'm surprised that you're going to another corporation because I thought you would go out and sort of hang, hang your proverbial shingle and kind of, you know, do your own thing. Because already back then I was writing articles on, you know, LinkedIn and kind of developing my uh, brand and my voice external to the company that I was in, which was Cigna. And I absolutely planned on doing that. And what I felt like I needed is I needed like one more tour. You know, I needed one more company to go to and to be able to lean into what I had contributed. Um, you know, and it's interesting because some of my greatest contributions in terms of leadership development, executive leadership development, talent strategy, high potential programs. I made a lot of those contributions at Cigna. But it's interesting because people are more interested in my time at Nike. And what I knew I also needed is I, I needed a sexier brand. You know, Cigna is health insurance and health and wellness is, you know, of course deeply important. But I knew that I needed sort of like a sexier brand to build off of. And, and you Know, everyone is super interested in my role as head of executive, head of executive leadership development and talent strategy at Nike in large part because of the sort of storied element of that company and the um, you know, the, the compelling, you know, sort of products, right, that, that Nike makes. Um, Nike. You know, I made a lot of sacrifices for Nike. I saw a long term plan, a long term play to ultimately be an entrepreneur and to have my own company and to found the Resilience Leadership Institute. And I knew that I needed more, more time sort of inside of organizations before I was truly ready to go out into the world and to be of service. And so um, I made a lot of sacrifices for Nike and I made them intentionally. I was pretty sure when I took the job at Nike that I was not going to be able to relocate my family, my two sons at the time, uh, who were three and five and my former husband, you know, across the country from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania to Portland, Oregon. And so, but Nike is a very in person culture. They call Nike the berm. And it's, you're either in the berm or behind the berm or you're on the other side of the berm, right? And so you need to be in office, you need to be in person. That may have changed a bit with um, the pandemic. But so I was you know, talking about like resilience as a businesswoman, as a single mom at the time. Here was my schedule for any given week at Nike. Sunday, um, afternoon at 2 o' clock I would catch a plane, um, from Philadelphia to Chicago. Here's a fun fact. There's only a direct flight on American Airlines like two months out of the year from Philadelphia to Portland, Oregon. The rest of the time you got to catch a connection. So Philadelphia, Chicago, layover. Chicago to Portland, Oregon. I would arrive about 11pm local time in Portland, Oregon. So 2am um, you know, back on the east coast I would pick up uh, a new rental car. I would drive to a new corporate housing. You know, so if you just think about like how when we travel for work it's like, okay, I've now I've got this car and okay, this is how I work it. And this other GPS turns on. Okay, I got my phone connected, all right. Then I'm driving to the corporate apartment that I'm going to stay in for that week. And you know, you find it, you get checked in, right? I never knew how to get from Nike, from the corporate apartment to Nike because it was like a different place. You know, every Week. All right, So I, so I get there. So now it's like, you know, midnight local time in Portland, 3:00am um, so then I'm gonna get up at 6 or 7, go to the gym, get into the office. I work in office Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. My former husband would have our boys. I work in the office Wednesday until about 6:00 o', clock, 6:30. And then I would go directly to the airport. On Wednesday night I would do a red eye that connected back through Charlotte. Um, and so I'd red eye home Wednesday night, get into Charlotte about 6am, get back to Philadelphia and be walking in the door. 10:30, 11:00 if it was late. And then my meetings would be starting at 8:30 or 9 Pacific Time on the West Coast. And so I'd start meetings. I do meetings all day Thursday, pick up my kids from daycare, have the kids Thursday night, work from home Friday, kids Friday, do stuff with them on Saturday. And then I would drop them off at my former husband's house Sunday morning, go to the airport and do it all again.

Speaker A: So I know this story and I was going to ask you this question. Uh, and, um, boy, that is, um, you know, quite, quite the schedule. You know, as you start to tell this story a little bit, I, um, want to, I want to pause for a second, you know, for those who are listening and watching right now. And I want to, you know, kind of dive a little bit deeper into what happened next, uh, when you did, uh, decide to start your own company. Folks, again, my name is Mike Alden and, um, this is the Alden Report. It's been, geez, three years since our last episode and I am beyond excited to have my wife as my first guest. Dr. Taryn Marie Stayskill. Um, you've been listening right now. You know, she is the world's leader, uh, on resilience. She's written the book the Five Practices of Highly Resilient People. It is a number one Wall Street Journal bestseller. Uh, it sold all over the world. Uh, it still continues to sell. She actually was just in Barnes and Noble and she, she posted a, well, she sent it to me, at least a video of it in Barnes and Noble. And if you'd like some more information about Dr. Tara Marie, you can just, you know, pick up her book, just go right to Amazon or anywhere where books are sold. Uh, you can also follow her, uh, on Instagram. I'm going to put that right in the notes, uh, as well. And um, you know, if you, again, if you want some more information, I think the first thing I would do is definitely pick up this book, uh, to learn not only about her, but also her work and how it's, you know, changing, you know, people's lives, including mine, by the way. We'll talk about that as well. So, m. All right. That schedule, it's just unbelievable. Uh, I don't, you know, I know you, so I know there wasn't a

Speaker B: lot of time for Instagram videos and documentaries, if you know what I mean.

Speaker A: Uh, well, for those listening and watching, right now, she's taking a shot at me and we'll take. We're, you know, it's a little inside. Inside joke. Um, yeah. This woman is, as we say, from Boston, the hottest working woman I've ever met, uh, in my life. And, um, something. We'll talk about it sometimes it's also not sustainable. Right, we'll talk about that. But. Okay, Women in business, I wrote down as I'm listening to you, and we talk a lot about this, uh, together, and you talk about it sometimes with some of your groups that you work with. Um, okay, so this insane schedule, you decide, okay, you know, I don't know if there was a schedule that made the choice or what have you, but you decide you're going to start your business. Um, you know, pre pandemic. Tell us, tell us what happened next.

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, well, in this case, my timing was not phenomenal. Um, I stepped away from Nike in February of 2020, and, uh, being in leadership development and talent management and talent strategy, you know, in sort of a broader, um, kind of underneath the broader human resources umbrella, um, I knew a lot of people who had, you know, these roles in other companies. And so I had closed a lot of business, uh, with a hug or a handshake with my colleagues. And because I was wrapping up at Nike, I had not gotten around to getting a contract, getting contracts sent out to people, getting those, you know, fully executed. So one month later, when the pandemic showed up, I had nothing on paper to back up those agreements. And our training and development budgets were the first things that were cut by companies. And so very quickly I found myself, uh, in my entrepreneurial journey, uh, with my two sons, who were three and five at the time. They were sent home from school to homeschool, and I had no income. Uh, I had no way to pay my mortgage or, you know, buy groceries or that kind of thing. Fortunately, I had, um, a bit of a cushion in terms of savings. But it was also a full time job to keep those kids. Um. Oh, no, sorry. They're five and seven now. So we've got a kindergartner and a second grader and so with a full time job just to keep them engaged on, on Zoom. And so I very quickly became technical support, you know, the lunch lady, uh, and also the like on site teacher's aide, which didn't leave a lot of time for developing my business and figuring out how the heck, you know, was I going to pay my bills and was this business, you know, even really viable or sustainable in, in normal times, you know, much less the pandemic. And so what happened was, um, I ended up being in the right place at the right time. Um, I'd been, call it studying resilience, my own resilience, developing the five practices of highly resilient people, um, you know, now for a decade and a half, it was two decades when the book came out. And Arianna Huffington said that year in 2020, she said Resilience was her word for the year. And that got a lot of publicity and it got a lot of people thinking about what the heck is this resilience thing and where do I get it and how do I identify it and how do I know if I have it and how do I expand or amplify it. And because this was my area and I had already been speaking on stages and publishing things on LinkedIn and on social media and um, articles, you know, my proverbial phone started to ring and I started to get invited to speak on stages to um, coach leaders, um, and, and thank God, right? Because I don't know what I would have done if that wouldn't have worked. And I think one part of the story that's really important though is now here we are at the end of 2025, I'm in my sixth year of being an entrepreneur and I would say things have gotten better, but they've not necessarily gotten easier. And what do I mean by that? What's gotten better is there is now a more sustainable sort of stream of financial income both for my company, the Resilience Leadership Institute, and for the companies that you and I have founded together, which we may talk about later, that are in health and well being and have really allowed me, I think, to expand the aperture of resilience from mindset and leadership, um, to thinking more holistically about well being, about health optimization, about longevity. So it's gotten better. And I think you and uh, you and I were just going over, you know, sort of our finances and where we were at the beginning of 2025 and where we are today. And we've seen a significant stepwise increase in terms of what we've been able to create in terms of financial solvency. So that's better. And you're often reminding me that things are better because I can be a bit of a chicken Little. Um, you know, I grew up with a stalker outside my window or outside my door and I didn't know who he was. So anytime I was at the park in a crowded, like, he could be there and I would not know it. And so what I've found in my adult life is like I have this nervous system that's calibrated up, you know, a few levels, you know, maybe 16 levels above where other people's nervous system naturally sits. I'm often naturally in hypervigilance mode and not just about physical safety, but about financial safety. Right. And security and the security of our family and the, you know, security of our relationship. And those are some of the vestiges that of those experiences that have been, you know, some of my greatest stumbling blocks and oftentimes also my greatest teachers. And so I can get very quickly, I can get very up leveled about finances, what's happening, you know, who's paying, you know, what's coming in this month. Um, so things have gotten better, but it hasn't gotten easier. And when I say it hasn't gotten easier, you know, there's this kind of phrase, I don't love it, but people say like new levels, new devils, you know, so every time we've gone up a level, things have gotten better. But it's also, in a way it hasn't gotten easier. And sometimes it's gotten harder because the stakes are higher. Because, um, you know, the visibility is greater, the stage is larger, the opportunity for failure or for mistakes, um, is, is more significant. And um, so as we continue to grow together, you know, I continue to have this opportunity to. Harnage. I was going to say harness my courage. So that came out as hernage.

Speaker A: I love it. We're great at making up wor. I was going to talk about one of my made up words earlier, but. Yeah, you begin to harness. Yeah. Huh?

Speaker B: Yeah, I begin to harness. To harness my courage.

Speaker A: Sure. Let's do that word harnage. Okay.

Speaker B: Harness.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's uh, dramatically better than harness.

Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah, I like it, I like it. Um, and that I think has been one of the greatest surprises for me around entrepreneurship and being a woman in business. And it's also been, um, one of my greatest challenges, um, without giving you any Time to comment on that. I'm going to roll into the second of one of my greatest challenges, which you and I have talked a lot about recently, um, which is being a woman in business. What? Um, I will tell you, when I was at large, Fortune 50, women in business.

Speaker A: I wrote it down. Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, Cigna, uh, became a Fortune 20 company while I was there. Nike's, you know, consistently in the Fortune 50. I didn't, I didn't really deal with any, you know, sexual harassment, you know, with, you know, issues of, you know, where I felt unsafe. And it's a really. It's. It's. It's not that people don't deal with that in the Fortune 100 or Fortune 500. It's just that it's much less common, and there are many more checks and balances, and the bad actors are often, you know, removed. And, um, I'm not saying that's, you know, the rule, but I, um, think that's what often takes place. And I always very much felt protected, and I felt very safe. Entrepreneurship is a completely different game. And, you know, just, you know, probably two weeks ago now, I was at a family office event. I was speaking to a man there with his business partner and his business partner's wife. His business partner and the business partner's wife are close with him and his wife. And, you know, he's doing hyperbaric oxygen chambers and peptides, and he's into health optimization and longevity, as we are in the expansion of how. I'm talking about resilience. And so we exchange phone numbers, right? We're going to do some business together. And the next morning, I get some text messages from him that are like, you're really pretty. You've got a great personality. It's like the lease on this conversation has completely changed literally overnight. And I did not sign up for some guy to start flirting with me. Not only did I not sign up for that, I think it makes it. I don't think. I know it makes it tremendously difficult for women to succeed in business when men shift the landscape in that way. He was very professional in front of his business partner and his business partner's wife. But as soon as now we're behind closed doors on text message, right? He's changing the tenor of his conversation, and that creates an incredible amount of whiplash for me and I think for many other women that are in these, um, that are in these experiences. And then as a woman, I can't speak for all women, so I'll just speak for me but as a woman now I'm in the uncomfortable position of do I entertain this guy's creepy behavior to try and get some business done, or do I shut this guy off? And also in doing that, shut off the potential for business. And I have heard from so many women that they have to make that decision, that decision between making money and tolerating creepy behavior or, you know, being in their integrity, but also shutting off the potential, you know, for business or for a partnership or for a foot in the door or for an opportunity. And it makes it incredibly difficult for women to succeed when we have to be put between the rock of someone's bad behavior and the hard place of, like, we need to sell stuff and make money.

Speaker A: Okay, deep breath again. Uh, trigger, warning. Trigger, trigger, trigger. As we, as I've learned, uh, from you, um, you know, uh, as I said, when we first started, I wasn't really sure where we were going to go with this. And I think you and I both said, hey, you know, is there anything off limits? And I don't. I think we said no. And if there was, and we could also, maybe we could edit it. But, um, that for me to hear, uh, as we know, as a man, as your husband, is a difficult thing to. To hear and, and, um. But trying to, like, step outside of it for a second and not as your husband, but just as someone who knows you and. And to think about, um, that minefield that you need to. That you need to navigate, which you basically were just talking about. Uh, you're right. It makes it. It makes it very, very difficult. And as I said earlier about, you know, you telling your story, it makes me sad because, you know, um, you are a very big, brilliant, um, ah, powerful, um, woman who has great ideas and, And. And it has a. Has a. The educational pedigree of anybody on, on the planet. And you've worked, you know, in the, in the. In the biggest businesses in the world and traveled the world, and you've done all these things as if like a man would. Right, Like a CEO. But you, unlike men, uh, have to deal with this stuff. And, um, yeah, I'm trying to, like, separate the fact. My wife from this, from this discussion. Um, but you said it. You know how. How difficult it is. You know, it does it. You know how. How. What advice. I guess. I guess what I, What I give you is. Is so that same exact scenario, like you said, you've talked to so many women that have been through the same exact thing, and you said that they're. They're They're. They're given this, you know, kind of impossible choice. Do I entertain this right, or do I shut it off? You know, And I.

Speaker B: And there's. And there's consequences to both.

Speaker A: Right? Yeah. And so. So, like, in, like, what, do you have advice, you know, in a general sense, of what women should do, uh, in that scenario?

Speaker B: Yeah. Well, first of all, I would never tell someone what they should do, um, because that's not for me to say. Um, but I am open to sharing what people could do. What could you do? Right. Um, and there's. I think there's three things here. One, I think it's really important for us as women to check in with ourselves and our integrity and say, can I live with myself, you know, with the decisions that I'm going to make next? Right. Most of the time, the answer to that question has been no for me. Most of the time I've said I'm not interested in feigning interest in pretending to like someone, in pretending that what they're doing isn't. Isn't creepy, is out of integrity with their relationship. And of course, now with our relationship, you know, there's also the layer of, you know, I'm no longer a single woman, so I also get to be in integrity with our relationship. Right. So the first question that I think any woman gets to ask herself is, can you live with yourself? And are you in integrity with yourself and any other relationships that you have in your life? And what does it also mean to be a part of something where another person is out of integrity with their relationship and who they are? Right. So that is a, uh, question that all of us get to ask ourselves. I won't tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do, but it's a very important question to ask. The second thing I think that we get to ask ourselves is like, you know, what's the potential upside and what's the potential downside? For me, the vast majority of the time, you know, um, it. I've. I wouldn't do it because I would be out of integrity. Right. And when I really think about it, there probably isn't an upside. Um, when men have flirted with me and said they want to do business, I would say 98% of the time, 99% of the time, it doesn't close. Right. So not only are they were we out of integrity in terms of, you know, our honesty with ourselves and other people in our life, but it also actually doesn't end up really leading to something fruitful, you know, it's more like a carrot, you know, that's being hung. Right. Um, and the third thing is I think we get to ask ourselves like, you know, what's. What's the, you know, the sort of trade off here? You know, if I invest time and energy in this business relationship, what might I be missing out on, you know, in some other place where I could actually make something happen or, you know, create something meaningful or develop a relationship that will lead to an exciting partnership or collaboration. And again, what I find is actually that investment just isn't worth it. The trade off isn't worth it because I will find a man who is integrity in integrity or I will find a great woman partner and we will create and build something together that will actually come to fruition.

Speaker A: Deep breath again for me. Um, yeah, you know, we talk a lot about this too, and it, uh, it just, it's just another layer, as you said before, or another thing that you have to deal with in order to, you know, to, to play in the world of business, you know, so to speak. And um, you know, we talk about, people talk about men and women in business and advantages and disadvantages. And I know you, we could talk, you know, a lot about, about that, but, um, yeah, I feel like women, I mean, like, men aren't. Men aren't put in this position. Like, we're not, we're just not. We're just not put in that position. And um, and for you to have to navigate that and you know, we're kind of touching on the surface on it, it can be very, very complex. You know, for you as well. There's, There's a lot on the line, there's other relationships. Um, and you are then having to. You, you and I've talked about these. You have to kind of like walk this tightrope, you know, and then. Yeah. And then on the other side, then you get me, right. Then you got the husband on the other side and like telling me about it and then how I feel about it. And then. So you're, you're dealing with this business stuff that you have to. And then, you know, is. You're in integrity with our relationship, then you tell me. And then that also could create a whole host of other things. Right. For, for, for me and then for us. And, and so then it just, um. Uh, I'm, uh, it's, uh. You really kind of enlightened me and you know, on like what it's like to be like a woman in business now. All that being said.

Speaker B: Well, and there's One more thing that I want to say about that.

Speaker A: Okay?

Speaker B: So don't forget what you were going to say after. Ah. All that being said, are you.

Speaker A: Are you okay? So I'm gonna be able to have this part of the conversation. Okay. Okay, cool.

Speaker B: All right.

Speaker A: That's an inside joke with us.

Speaker B: But, um, also, the more that I needed business, the more that I needed something to support my family, the more, um, concern that I felt about my financial picture. Uh, at times, I think there were moments where I felt very, very afraid of how things were going to work out financially. Desperate, um, isn't a very pretty word, but I think there were moments where I was like, I gotta, like, close some business here to, you know, make sure I keep this, you know, financial picture for my sons and I on the rails. And I think the more I felt like I needed it to survive, the more I was willing to entertain things that were outside of my integrity as a woman. And that's a really shitty place to be. It's a really shitty place to be between I've got to pay my mortgage and take care of my sons, and I've got to also potentially entertain some bad behavior that I don't really want to entertain because I think it might lead to something, and we need the money, you know, and that is a place that single women and single moms have to navigate that minefield when we don't have a financially solvent picture or a man in our lives like you, Mike Alden, who has our back.

Speaker A: I have to take a deep breath after. After all these things. Um, yeah. Um. Knowing your life and listening to you and people who don't know you and listening to what you just described, um, I do kind of want to qualify it a little bit, um, for people listening, especially men, um, which is, you know, when you say, kind of, um, you know, entertaining, you know, this. This behavior. Really, what I know about you, really what you're talking about, and I think someone. I think some people could maybe make assumptions that just aren't accurate about you. Uh, um, you know, they look at you and you see a beautiful woman, and they, you know, look, I look at you every day, and my head just is. You know, because you're so beautiful.

Speaker B: Um.

Speaker A: Oh, geez. What are we talking about? Men. And anyway, so, um, I want to qualify it because. Because I know. I know your life, and I know the things that you've gone through. Really, what you're talking about, right, Is not crossing some sort of, like, moral. Well, everyone has their own moral standards, but Crossing some sort of, uh, line, uh, or boundary. Right? What you're really talking about is basically putting up with it, right? You're talking about some guy flirting with you. You're talking about, you know, some guy, you know, you know, kind of making advances, but not like, going too far. And you're just. You're just managing it and just trying to be nice. Right. Um, so that you can ultimately get to the. To the. To the result that. That every other. That. That men are trying to do together in business. But you have to be like, play nice and smile and, you know, but. And not come across as being, as we've talked about, as like, being a bitch. Right? Because. Oh, geez, God forbid you push back. Uh, that's what you're talking about, right?

Speaker B: Yeah. I'm glad. I'm glad that you qualified it for, for me personally, uh, the way that I have been out of integrity with myself is at times continuing the conversation, continuing the conversation, uh, when I thought it could lead to business, even though I knew the person was interested in me for more or flirtatious or, um, you know, doing things that were outside, you know, saying and acting in ways that were outside of the bounds of what we would think about as like, traditional business or if it. If. If I were a man, the way that they would handle things. Um, I personally, you know, have not crossed a line ever, you know, in. In business. I never. I never wanted something that bad to be out of integrity with myself. And I've also been fortunate enough that I've never been in a position that was that bad. And, um, and. And those are two different things. But they're really important things, you know, because as women. And again, I can't speak for all women, but as women, we sometimes have to choose the greater good, which is, you know, taking care of our family and our children, you know, and tolerating shit we don't want to tolerate. You know, I fortunately have, you know, not ever had to be that far outside of my integrity. And I'm, you know, and I'm very proud to say that I've never been for sale. You know, I have met a lot of, you know, the world's leading, uh, powerful men, and if I said their names, you know, folks listening would know who they are. Oh, and I know and those men have, you know, and. And those men at times were attached or unattached and available, but I just didn't feel a connection or a desire to be with them, um, beyond who they are. And I didn't pursue those relationships because I've always believed in love and I've always believed in connection and I've always believed that I wanted to have that soul level connection with my partner. The, the soul level twin flame connection that you and I have. And for me, being in my integrity meant I wasn't going to be with someone where I didn't have that because no amount of money or financial security was worth giving up the pursuit of that connection until I found it.

Speaker A: Wow. Uh, as I said, um, and from the very beginning I, you and I didn't talk about exactly where this conversation was going to go. We have these conversations, you know, just you and me, uh, one on one. And um, I'm very comfortable right. In sharing this conversation with the world too because I think there's, you know, so much value. We've been going for almost 50 minutes or so. I, I'm, I'm going to keep you here a little bit longer. You and I actually have something we have to do, uh, very shortly. But, but there's so much value here that you're, that you're giving, um, the world that I want to kind of keep you for a little bit longer and I want to transition into, um, you know, one of the things that you've recently discovered as a, as a, as a businesswoman, um, who can stand on her own two feet, uh, and can do things on her own.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Um, I want to talk a little bit about some of that, uh, in just a second. Again folks, if you've been listening and watching right now, we are on yes with my wife, Dr. Taryn Marie stay School. She is the author of the book the five Practices of Highly Resilient People. The book is available everywhere where books are sold. It's ah, been out for a couple of years. It's ultimately you know, how we met. Um, I'm not sure if we're going to be able to get to that today about, you know, maybe tell that story. Story. She's alluded to it a little bit but um, this woman not only has changed my life, um, but is continuing to change people's lives on a daily basis. I get to uh, be uh, someone who sits in the front row and in her speeches and also and see the people who she interacts with and changing, you know, from the little 10 year old little girl, you know, to grown men, yes, grown men. I've watched it, you know, where she's changed their lives and help them in ways and it's just a really, really beautiful thing. So this book has really been, you know, kind of, um, the stepping stone for her. And also, um, it's when people read it, like they say, you know, that it's. It has actually changed their lives. And if you know anything about me, I've written a bunch of books myself. I've had stuff like this happen to me, but not like this. Not like this level. And I wouldn't say that I'm jealous of it because I'm m. Not. Because. But she is an amazing, amazing writer, as we would say from Boston as well. And she hasn't even talked about it. She's dyslexic. And it's just an amazing book. So, um. I was going to say baby. I think I'm going to say baby, uh, because I think we're maybe at that point in the conversation, um, I have been so impressed, you know, with you in so many. In so many ways. And from. As a mom, as a single mom, you know, before we met, uh, as a. As a writer, as a speaker, um, and. And for all the things that you've done, all of the, you know, we haven't even touched upon. We touched upon the stalker and a little bit about, you know, uh, you know, starting your business, you know, during. During COVID But we didn't really even talk about how scary that was. And I just. You know what? We just. We. There's only. Maybe we're gonna have to. Have to have. Have you come back again. And when I say come back, maybe we'll just have to hit record and. And you'll be downstairs and I'll be upstairs and we'll go again. But, um, for the women that are listening right now, and I think this is. I think women are really going to really like this episode. And maybe some men, uh, are going to realize that. Yeah. Hey, you know what? Maybe I should maybe check myself. I don't know. But, um. One of the things that I've seen happen with you, ah, recently and I think you. Is that as a businesswoman and you have really kind of come into your own. And you would use the term. Use the term. You said how shitty it felt actually about, um, and decisions that you've had to make, um, or decisions that you, um, couldn't make. Um, tell me a little bit about the power that you've stepped into as a woman, uh, in business recently, and some of the decisions that you've made, uh, that have really kind of empowered you, which. Which some people might think would almost do the opposite. Like, in other words, they might feel like they're missing out on stuff. But you have made some decisions that have really empowered you. And it's really kind of beautiful to watch.

Speaker B: You know, I think there's nothing more powerful than a woman who knows her value and a woman who believes in herself and a woman who knows that she can stand on her own two feet. And my personal perspective is I don't have any problem saying I'm going to rely on someone or that I need someone. You know, Mike, I rely on you. I need you. And at my core, I have now come to a place where I know my value, I believe in myself, and I know that if I need to, I can stand on my own two feet. And I think when we step into, as women, that ability to feel empowered by knowing our value and worth, by believing in our skill set and what we have done and can do, and we know that we can make it on our own, we start entertaining a lot less bullshit. And that is a really powerful place for women to be. You know, my, um, next book I think is going to sort of build on resilience and it's going to be about, it's going to be about burnout. And I'm really excited about this title, which is, um, the title is, you weren't made for this. You were not made for this. Uh, how we've created a crisis of burnout, stress and overwhelm and what to do about it. And what I'm realizing in the context of this conversation is that I write books, um, from the place of first being interested in the content for myself. You know, I wrote the five practices of highly resilient people because I was like, wow, challenge is really hard. Like, this isn't any fun. Like, you know, let me get the skills and meet the people and figure out, like, how do people most effectively do this? And you know, what has happened over the course of my corporate career and now my entrepreneurial career, um, is there have been times and not so recently, and I think there's still, you know, sort of vestiges of these experiences that have been burnout for me, you know, where I've been so overwhelmed by the number of things that I need to do, by the lack of time, um, by every day feeling like, you know, it's that onslaught of drinking from the fire hose. And from the first moment that I wake up knowing that I will not have enough time to finish all the things that I need to finish and I'm gonna have to make trade off decisions and let balls drop that I don't Want to let a ball, you know, that I. Will I do the proposal or will I go to the gym? You know? Um, and. And it gets really tiring to feel like I'm constantly choosing between those critical elements. And I think stepping into my value, believing in myself, and knowing, you know, that I can take care of myself and that I can take care of, you know, our family and that together we are also a powerhouse duo. It's allowing me now to explore how do I do less of the things that are unproductive, how do I think fewer of the unproductive thoughts that make me feel burned out or scared or overwhelmed or exhausted. Um, how do I say no more? How do I have a more streamlined area of focus? Um, and so I think all of these questions and this exploration is now coming from that place of being a more empowered businesswoman, and that is allowing me to ask these new set of questions, which is, um, going to be very valuable for my development. And I think when we talk about, you know, just like, posting things on social media, it's like, well, post, post stuff on social media that you would want to, you know, read, you know, post videos that you would want to watch. And so when I wrote my first book, I, you know, anything that I wasn't interested in reading, I didn't write it, you know, and so I want to write books and bring things to the world that are interesting to me. And if it's interesting to me, I feel like it's going to be interesting to at least one or two other people. And having the courage to step into what the next generation of this looks like comes from that level of empowerment and belief and knowing my value.

Speaker A: Again, deep breath. Ah. As I, as I, as I, as I listen to you and, um, you know, I want to, I want to keep going, but, you know, we, you know, unfortunately, we do, uh, have things we have to do and in life.

Speaker B: Family photos.

Speaker A: Tonight we have family photos we have to do. And we gotta drive, uh, I don't know, 25 minutes, maybe more, uh, to, uh, to. For the family photo. Um, and so I think we're gonna probably have to do this again. Uh, we also are launching, uh, our own podcast together, uh, which we're super excited about. I'll put that, we'll put that in the notes so you can follow us there. Uh, I want to thank you, uh, for doing this. It's been, um, really beautiful to, to hear you tell the stories which I have heard before, but in a way now, knowing that millions of people are going to hear this. And I think it's really, you know, going to, to help people understand and m. More specifically women and knowing that they aren't alone, right? That they're um, you know, that there are things that they can do. And I think one of the first things they can do is, you know, I am going to do a little self promotion. Well, kind of self promotion is, you know, pick up your book, you know, the five practices of highly resilient people. You can also just, you know, Google, uh, Dr. Taryn Marie. You can find all of our social at. Ah, Dr. Taryn Marie is. She's pretty active on Instagram. You can find her uh, Also, also on LinkedIn. Just. If you just Google her, you'll, you'll, you'll find all of her stuff. She has a, uh, another book out, compilation book called Triumphs of Transformation in which um, um, she wrote a chapter in. I also wrote a chapter in. We tell, we talk a lot, little bit about kind of how we met. But I will say this and maybe we'll save it for another one. Um, Dr. Tar and I met as a result of this book, um, and a result of my books and um, you know, became husband and wife fairly quickly. Um, so, you know, if you are thinking about writing that book, you just never know, you know, where it's going to. Where it's going to lead you. So, um, this has been, ah, an amazing kind of, um, episode, uh, for our reboot, so to speak, of the Alden Report. I could not have asked for a better guest other than, you know, my wife. And you are, um, you have not only changed my life, as I said earlier, but you continue to change people's lives on a daily basis. And I am so fortunate and lucky, uh, to be able to have a front row seat and literally and watch you do it. So again folks, um, my name is Mike Alden. If you'd like some more information about Dr. Tara Marie, just Google her. As I said a couple different times this is been the Alden Report and um, I look forward to our next episode and uh, we'll see you soon.