Podcasting Secrets to Make Money & Build Influence | SHAWN ANTHONY #342

Speaker A: My name is Jeff Lerner, and I interview elite performers from a wide range of disciplines. Entrepreneurs, athletes, celebrities, scientists, artists, and more. This is unlock your potential. Welcome to another episode of Unlock your potential. Jeff Lerner, your host, always so excited to be back having amazing conversations with amazing human beings. Today, that amazing human being is Sean Anthony, founder of Pod Pro Max and the host of the schools over now what podcast, which is a top 5% global ranking podcast. And you know, you hear these stats, you're like, what does that really mean? So if you're into podcasting, here's how it goes. 97 podcast percent of podcasts have, like, two listeners. If that. And they. And they fizzle out in less than 20 episodes, then you have the top 2%. And it's like a hockey stick curve of audience and viewership from there. Like, top. A top 2% podcast is not nearly as big as a top 1.5% podcast. And top 1.5% isn't nearly as big as the top 1%, and the top 1% isn't nearly as big as THE top 5%. And that's the thin slice of excellence where Sean Anthony finds himself with his schools Over. Now what podcast? Uh, he's. I mean, the podcast speaks for itself. Go check it out. In the meantime, I'm going to skip the rest of the bio and just. Welcome Sean. Welcome, Sean. Glad you're here, man.

Speaker B: Let's get it. M. I'm excited to be here, man. I always like it when someone's done their research and also give credit to a lot of hard work and a lot of time, man. So glad to be here.

Speaker A: A lot of hard work and a lot of time. Okay, so let's. Let's actually kick that. Kick off with that. Um, actually, first of all, I got to explain something to my. To the YouTube viewers here. If you're. If you're just a podcast, not, I don't want, say, just a podcast listener, but if you're audio only, you don't know that. I. I look like I'm broadcasting from, like, a warehouse. But if you're on YouTube, I got to explain. So wrote. And Sean, forgive me, but I haven't explained this to the audience yet. And there have been a few episodes where I'm here. So we bought a new house. Uh, this used to be the gym. The previous homeowners, which is. Which is why there's a water fountain. Water fountain in the corner, which I actually think is a cool touch.

Speaker B: Uh, that's fine.

Speaker A: Save a bottle, save a dolphin or whatever. And, uh, anyway, we're going to build this space out into a really cool, like, content lounge, broadcast studio, podcast space. But right now I'm basically coming to you from what looks like a warehouse. So thanks, uh, for. Thanks for indulging. All right, Sean, thank you for letting me give that, uh, that nation to the, to the audience. But, hey, let's get, let's get into the hard work of podcasting. Um, I, I haven't, I haven't had a podcast host on in a while, and so. And I've. And the last time I did, I was like, man, we talked about all this stuff, but we never actually talked about podcasting. So next, I made a deal myself. Next time I'm talking to a, you know, a successful podcast host, I want to get into, like, the actual grind of podcasting because it's, it's such a rewarding thing to do, but it's not perhaps as like, sexy and glamorous as a lot of people might think, because they see the big. The big ones. So can we talk about podcasting as a business and, uh, as a, as an undertaking for, for a minute here? I'd like to hear how long you've been doing it, how you got started, and any commentary you have on, like, what it's really like to try to grow a podcast.

Speaker B: Oh, man. I got in podcasting in 2018, so that's when, uh, people couldn't even understand what that weird purple app could even do. And when I got into podcasting in 2018, the main thing to capture was professional, good sounding audio. So if I, if I were to go back and like, listen to some of the past episodes, that was the main thing. YouTube and crossing it over to video and audio experience became bigger when Covid hit. Right. So prior to it, you know, you could probably get away for probably a year or so in 2018 of just literally just doing video. Not. Sorry, just doing audio. And with podcasting in 2018, we're starting schools Over Now. What? Like, whenever you start a show, you have to say to yourself, okay, how do I create a show that when you hear it, it immediately puts you into a feeling or it immediately wants you to say, I want to be a part of that mission. And so naming the show Schools over now. What? Uh, Jeff, I actually did it because I was guilty. I had succeeded in life after being a successful party promoter. I transferred those skills over into corporate and into management, and I actually was a brand manager for, uh, companies that we all shop at. Target, Macy's and Belk. And when I was a brand manager for Macy's, that's when I discovered podcasting. And I had all these amazing things happening for me in my life and I felt guilty because I was succeeding. I was promoted six times in four years. And I say, you know what? Instead of me doing all these amazing presentations, and I noticed how everyone would respond whenever I would talk at these corporate meetings, I said, you know what? Let's do a podcast. And I wanted to do a podcast that would allow for an audience to learn. But most importantly, answer the question we've all asked ourselves at some point in life and that school's over now. What I mean, the podcast took off, man. I sat down with everybody you can think of, from Ed Milette to Seth Godin to Jasmine star Amy Porterfield, Grant Cardone, you name it, they've been on that show. And it became a six figure side hustle, uh, which has allowed for me to go full time entrepreneurship in 2021 and to now what we're doing with Palmax.

Speaker A: Man, that's super cool. So, uh, so yeah, Ed, we've had him on the show. Grant, we've had him. Amy, we've had. Jasmine is actually, uh, about to come on the show. Funny you mentioned her. Uh, haven't, haven't landed. Seth, who. Who else did you mention?

Speaker B: Oh, ah, that's a crazy roster, man.

Speaker A: Uh, it's incredible. But, but here's the thing. Like, I mean, I, and by the way, every. Obviously Jasmine hasn't been on the show yet, but every. And, and I will say Grant was with. Withholding with his cell number, but.

Speaker B: Cool. But, uh, but I put up on grand in Miami. I did him in Miami.

Speaker A: Oh yeah, you hit him up? No, he, he came on a while back. He was doing the promotional tour for the Undercover Billionaire when, when that was coming out, it was like a quick pop in. Uh, his, his business partner though is a good friend. But, but this is the point. And actually I'll use his business partner, Brandon Dawson with, uh, Cardo Ventures. You know, these are like, I have their cell numbers, I text with these guys. And, and that there's like a fraternity of podcasters. And, and the reason I say that is like genuinely not as like some lame high school flex of like, let me tell you who my friends are. But it's like, you know, a lot of people that follow these mega m influencers online or these people that we look up to is like, how would I conceivably break into those circles? I don't think there's Actually a better answer to that question than a podcast. I mean, that's the reason that I can count those people in my network. And without a podcast, that would not be true 100%.

Speaker B: I mean, podcasting, let's be honest, right? If you, uh, put together a great show, it's a easy consultation. And if you're really strategic about it, you're selfish in the questions that you ask because you're in front of somebody that would have took somebody else a very long time to get in front of or a strategic way to get in front of. So why not look at her that way, right? And make the most of it.

Speaker A: Yeah. Speaking of. So Ed is a good example. I had Ed on the show, had an amazing one hour conversation with Ed, and then probably two weeks later, I reached out to Ed's team and was like, hey, I'd love to have Ed come do a training in my community entre. And, um, they sent over a quote. It was like $35,000.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I psychedelic. I could pay 35 grand to have Ed come talk to the community for an hour, or I can do a podcast for an hour for free and have a bet on and then just share it with the community. Like, I mean, that is an example of the, the, the, the leverage of starting. And, and I didn't even have. I don't, I still don't. I think I'm top 1%, which means I'm an order of magnitude smaller than you at top half percent. But, like, you don't even have. And, and, and that might, even, that might sound like, oh, uh, top 1%. But top 1% basically just means. Or I'll say this, I think top 2% basically means I did a hundred episodes and I didn't quit, I spent it on Amazon. And quick, you know, maybe that's top three, but I mean, you can get into that, that tier where you can start getting some big guests, start building a pretty powerful network, and then when you have your next big thing that you'd promote or create or develop or want to launch, I mean, I had. In 2022, I think. Yeah, geez. Uh, I published a book. It. It peaked at number two on the Wall Street Journal nonfiction bestseller list.

Speaker B: Like it.

Speaker A: How the hell did unknown Jeff Lerner publish a number two bestselling book in the country? The only book I couldn't knock off that list was Atomic Habits. Because you want to know the answer? Because I reached out to the network of all the people I'd had on the podcast, and I said, hey, if I send you an advanced copy and you like it, will you tell your audience about my book? It was just. I mean, it's just been such an incredible thing, but it is a long game. So talk to me about the journey from 2018 to 2020. I guess now 2025.

Speaker B: Well, it sounds crazy when you say 2025, because now you're looking like, what, seven years?

Speaker A: Uh, you got to be a pretty old man to have done anything for seven years.

Speaker B: Well versed, right? You know, I got into podcasting. Literally, I got into podcasting. I was in my 20s, and now I'm in my 30s. You know. You know, the. The longevity of doing it is you, uh, you have to think about some of the comments and some of the things that you receive that keeps you motivated to keep going. So, yeah, we talked about the podcast. It's seven years strong, but it also has over 650 plus five star ratings. So if you ever were to say, man, I don't want to do this anymore, you can go back and read one of those ratings, read one of those reviews. But I also still remember when I very first started traveling to guess very, um, strategically, I started traveling to guests in 2019. Um, and one of the very first guests I ever traveled to and sat down with was at my lap. You know, that we're talking about them. Um, and. And the people were sharing their top five favorite podcasts, and Ed slid in my DM and said, let's make it happen. And I flew to Laguna. Uh, that's how I met him, and that's how I sat down and did that interview. And we think about podcasting for longevity. You think about the little moments where you saw that it was promising. I remember being at my last house on the couch that everyone had interviewed at. Now he does it in his studio. And I remember him looking at me and saying, man, if you just stick with this, if you just stay at this, this is 2019. You are uniquely positioned to be unlike everybody else. Uh, and I remember that, and I still remember that. And it's one of those things that put a battery in my backpack, and I just kept rolling with it. There's also certain episodes that were released, and I'm like, hu, I don't know if I want to drop it, I drop it. And I remember one, um, time I had this episode with a guy who was a hip hop artist by the name of Mims. He had a song called this Is why I'm Hot was the number one song in 2006. In the world. Um, and I remember seeing a comment or someone said, thank you for releasing this episode. I listened to this particular portion of that episode, and it saved my life. I was about to harm myself. So I think about the longevity of podcasting, the comments I received, and I think about the people it's helped, and that's how I keep going.

Speaker A: So you said 2018, you were working in corporate America.

Speaker B: Yeah, I was a manager. Yeah. So brand manager.

Speaker A: Brand management. And you had this idea. Was. Was schools over now? What the concept from the get go.

Speaker B: From the get go, yeah. From the get go, yeah. Uh, think about it. I. I dealt with guilt. I was already running it up in terms of making money, fresh out of college, promoted six times in four years. I saw all my peers struggling, not knowing what to do after school was over. It was a no. Br.

Speaker A: Okay, so one of the things that our show really likes to do is. And. And actually, I'm making a mental note. I want to circle back on something else you said about. About kind of the v. The being selfish with podcasting. I think that's a. A separate thing to double click on. But. But let me. We'll come back to that. But for right now, um, one of the things our show really likes to do is try to understand the. The human behind the bio. You know, your bio is this. You've done these things. You have these accolades or credentials. But I mean, I'm always. I'm always probably even more interested than in what you're doing or what you've done in what is it that made what you're doing or what you've done inevitable for you as a human being? And so it sounds. Because, you know, how you do one thing is how you do everything. How you do podcasting is how you did brand management is how you did party promotion. It's like, there's something about Sean Anthony. So talk to me. Why do you think it is? And, you know, take off your false modesty hat. Not that you're necessarily wearing that, but if you are, take it off and tell me what is it that Sean Anthony did and to what he attributes getting promoted six times in four years, being successful in multiple endeavors, while, as you put it, many of your peers were struggling, uh, in the same trajectory.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think. I think what you're heading towards is the ability to identify a gift. And. And I heard that the. The ability to identify a gift. You really want to know what you're good at? You have to ask yourself, what am I doing that I'm the best at that. I'm not even trying and I'm really giving the least amount of effort. The moment you identify that and you attach that to a mission, it's a wrap. And whatever you want to do in life. I had a job review and I got an exceed expectations job review. I uh, remember my boss sitting me down. A lot of people right now listening to this, working a 9 to 5, they don't know their gift. A, um, lot of people who may be even entrepreneurs, they don't know their gift. You wonder how you can find out what your gift is. Job review. This person across the table from you is getting paid to identify what your strengths are. And if you listen, you may say, man, I'm not even trying. And so I remember him sitting me down and saying, man, listen, the way you communicate and the way you connect with people, the way that they're able to move when you have an idea and how you handle relationships, I've never seen anything like it. I'm giving you exceed expectations. And I said, hold on, wait a second. Everything he just said that I'm doing for them, I could do for me. And so that's what the main connection was. And then when I became a full time entrepreneur, if you really want to study and take off the hat, right. I paid attention to, okay, who is the person that pays me the most? Jeff, I'm being fully transparent. The person that pays me the most is an established entrepreneur who typically is already at the seven figure mark. Some of them even at the eight figure mark, if they're able to trust you enough, where their careers with your expertise, your judgment, opportunities, man, that is it. And not only that it's beyond communication and connection, but the real gift, underlining gift is the ability and knowing how to sell. Uh, and I would say that's it. Right. I got promoted so much because I was helping him make sales. I had the highest engaged team of all time. You know, I had the highest engagement scores out of like two states. Um, everybody knew it. And if I had the ability to do it for them, now I have the ability to create my own team. I have an amazing squad, you know what I'm saying? So I think that's the key.

Speaker A: So I heard three things in what you just said. I heard communication ability.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Or, or let's just call it salesmanship, which by the way, I deeply believe that sales ability is basically communication ability. It's the ability to, to passionately to convey an idea along with the emotion that's wrapped up in the idea or the belief that's wrapped up in the idea. Um, I heard leadership, you know, the ability to build a loyal, engaged, functional, you know, synergistic squad.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: And I heard honestly just some good old fashioned hustle like drive, like get it done. The reality is you could have the skills, but if you don't also outwork most people, you. You don't excel.

Speaker B: Facts, facts. And it's really being a genuine person, man. It's really being a person that could just connect the dots, you know, talent and, and one of the most funnest things for me is identifying other people who they should be in front of, who they should meet, who would they would just genely connect with. And I've seen that be phenomenons in a lot of people's careers and their businesses.

Speaker A: So talk to me about the development of the human that is a talented communicator, a highly driven, motivated, hardworking person and a strong, proven leader. Talk to me about little baby Sean Anthony and role models and influences and developmental experiences and I mean, were you born with it? How did those things come to be. And I'm asking for on the audience's behalf of like, how do we develop these skills? Whether it was then or now, man,

Speaker B: this is a good conversation. No one ever asked me like that. So I'm gonna give you an answer I never gave anybody all, uh, right. And it may shock people and at the end of the day it may either excite them or it m. May scare them. Uh, I think a lot of it.

Speaker A: Same neurophysiology, by the way.

Speaker B: Okay. Okay, good.

Speaker A: Depends on the meaning you attach to the, to the chemistry, but excitement and fear. Same chemistry, yeah.

Speaker B: So when you think about this, right. I think a lot of this is DNA traced. So I grew up in a household and I think you had to identify. You can identify very quickly. DNA trace. This is what I mean by it. I grew up in a household where my father is a professional bodybuilder. I seen this guy for years win trophy after trophy, become Mr. North Carolina where we're from. Just beat out the competition and just keep going. I literally watched my dad win everything. Huh. And he had discipline and he had the ability to like, you know, make sure he's only eating chicken breasts and like. But it was, it would be results.

Speaker A: Yeah, let me, let me just, let me just camp on that for a sec. I have a friend who's a, who's a pro heavyweight, ifbb, you know, Bodybuilder.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: IFBB ain't Nobody more disciplined than those guys.

Speaker B: Nobody.

Speaker A: I, um, mean canned tuna and dry chicken breast every day for six months while also doing three hours of slow steady state cardio.

Speaker B: Yeah. So look, think about it, right? Think about it like, like, so, like, think about this. This is my DNA trace thought process here. Um, so I literally watched the champion all of my life, you know, and then, uh, my mom took it to another level. My mom is a corporate financial analyst at a very huge company that covers several different states. She knew numbers, she knew money, she knew how to think. I literally watched my mom's hustle take us out of a trailer park to a very good neighborhood. And so I think a lot of it could be DNA trace and a lot of it could be understanding. Okay, what were some of their strengths, but also too, what were some of their weaknesses? How do they respond to certain situations? I think a lot of that stuff is in you. And a lot of that stuff, you know, I heard a rapper say, I'm very big on like slang and rapper coming out. Like me, uh, and my brother communicating rap lyrics. We can literally call each other and say a rap lyric and we already know how the other person is feeling. And there was a rapper one time who said, um, shout out to my pops, that's the older me. And I said, oh, I think he's onto something. They are literally the older version of you. And you can either understand what they were really good at and maximize it. You can understand where they were opportunities at and realize that at any given moment your attitude can go that way too. How can you shift it and change it? So that's um, my real philosophy on a lot of stuff, man. I think, uh, if you look back at this, you can look at some of the highest figures you could even look at it. The easiest way to probably say this is true is looking at professional sports. It's the easiest way, you know, it's the easiest way. When you look at father sons that go to the NBA, they go to the NFL, that go to baseball, like, it's almost a no brainer. You already know they're coming, you know, so you have to realize what incubator you're in and realize how can you be better than everything around you?

Speaker A: So there's two things I want to say to all that. One is, I want, one is serious and one is funny, uh, or laughable, maybe trivial. But the serious thing is I, I, I just think this is so spot on about under. I love the way you said that. Understand the incubator. You're in.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: And really, like, look at your life, look at your influences, look at your parents, look at your heroes. Who inspires you? I love that you said who. What is it that you do that seems almost effortless. Uh, who are the people that are. You said, who are the people that pay you the most? Even if maybe you don't have your own business to measure that by? Who are the people that are the most drawn to you, where there seems to be the most value being exchanged? Like, you can look at all this and start to identify your gifts. And then basically, and I think this is the sequencing error that a lot of people make is they go, okay, I'm going to get into entrepreneurship, or I'm going to get into, you know, trying to go my own way, do my own stuff. And I'm going to start by looking at what other people are doing and try to copy it. Because then I have the confidence of going, oh, this is a proven template or something. And then I'm going to get far enough down the path where now I feel like successful enough and confident enough that I can start to tailor it to be more authentically me. Uh, and it's like they, they have a vision in their mind of, like, if I get to a certain point of success, then I can start to bring myself and my gifts into it. Instead of starting with that and saying, I will absolutely not get into anything that doesn't align with my gifts. And I'll start with my gifts, not with looking outside of me for opportunity, which is how most people start. Because as humans, we're naturally insecure and we'd rather look out in here. But, um, but if we start with our gifts and we say I will, and then I will seek opportunities that align with those gifts, then essentially we're saying everything from here on, I will have a tailwind versus a headwind. And I think that's important for people to, To. To take from what you said. The other thing I wanted to say. I said there were two things is just because you talk about communicating in rap, just this morning I was, I was embarrassing my daughter. I think you'll appreciate this. Where I said. I said, girl, I feel like as. As your father, she's. She's turned 16 in 12 days.

Speaker B: Holy moly, Batman.

Speaker A: And every day I drive her to school. So my, My run of driving her to school is about to end in 12 days. So I'm having a lot of emotions, right?

Speaker B: Oh my goodness.

Speaker A: And I'm feeling very old and irrelevant. So I told to her to her. And I said, so. So, girl, Jada's room. I said, jada, I'm. I'm feeling old and irrelevant. I feel like in 12 days, I'm not even going to matter anymore. Right. So in order to stay cooler, I'm gonna start communicating with you in the style of suicide.

Speaker B: Boys.

Speaker A: Jada, I love you. Have a good day at school.

Speaker B: What's he saying?

Speaker A: And she's just like, dad, please stop. No.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's his thing real quick. You know, I'm a father, father of four, two girls, two boys. Oldest is a girl, youngest is a girl. Two boys in the middle. Uh, age range from seven, uh, down to one.

Speaker A: Oh, cool.

Speaker B: Um, and I'll tell you this, man, I'm just getting really blessed on information. But, you know, there's this thing that really stuck with me. They said zero to six. Do you have any boys or you just all girls?

Speaker A: I have two boys, two girls. My boys are 20, 22 girls are 15, uh, and eight.

Speaker B: Oh, you really recognize this? It said zero to six. Boys need their mom. Six, uh, uh, uh, from seven to 14. Boys need their dad. From 14 on, their biggest influence is their peers.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: So you have to look at, like, the time frame that you have. And I was listening to it, I was like, damn, Jeff, you got two more years than what a lot of people got off of just dropping her. You know what I'm saying? So I just thought it was interesting

Speaker A: to add, uh, but, you know, that's another good example, uh, I think, too, of this concept we talk about in my world a lot called life design. That's kind of the umbrella category of our business is life design. And like, I think a lot of people, when they hear, you know, when they. When they sort of pursue or they. They start scoping out, you know, the, The. Call it the. The visualized world of success online.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, influencers, these entrepreneurs, and, you know, podcasts like ours and so forth. There's a tendency to glamorize it and, and say, like, oh, arriving means having a Bentley or having a boat or having a mansion or something. That ain't the point. The point is that for as long as I can remember, I've been able to drive my daughter to school.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker A: And I drop her off, you know, school. The school bell rings at 8:20. The fact that I'm not having to commute to a job at 8:20 every morning is one of the great. My life, it's not a freaking boat, you know?

Speaker B: No, the other thing I read and came across, too, was that, you know, um, the real value of entrepreneurship is not to your point. It's not that. It's the ability to do stuff like that. You. You can literally take a lunch whenever you want to take a lunch. Right. You can literally pick your kids up, they got sick. You know, that was. That was so cool to me. Me, not me. Parent teacher association things. I've been to that. If I had still been the brand manager of Target, there is no chance it's happening.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. Um, I love going to school functions in the middle of the day. And, And. And there's kind of a look when. With other dads. So how.

Speaker B: Here.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, there's other dads where you're kind of like, yeah, we got it figured out, you know?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, anyway, man. Okay, cool, cool.

Speaker B: So.

Speaker A: So let's get to, uh, what you do in the. I know you have. You have your podcast, but you also have, um, Pod Pro Max, which I don't want to speak for it. Can you tell us a little bit more about what that is and what it does?

Speaker B: Yeah. Popper Max, man, you know, it's so crazy. I mean, long story short, if I were to give you one sentence, you know, we give people access to places, uh, and people and things they should be at, they just can't get into. I mean, we do that strategically through podcast placement. Uh, we also manage talent, so we manage some people you've probably heard of. We, uh, manage Beyonce and Solange's dad, Matthew Knowles. We also manage talent that is on tv. So if you ever, like, click a button, wanna watch Hulu on A and E. We have a couple that's in real estate. The polite say, I have a show on, uh, A and E And Hulu called 5050 flip. They take $50,000, they put it into real estate, sell it within 50 days. But we have a lot of talent also in the thought leadership and the entreprene. Um, um, so that's a little bit about Podper Max and. And kind of what we do. We're in a space of representing talent and finding the best opportunities for them.

Speaker A: Cool, Cool. So who would be a potential client of Pod Pro Max? It sounds like it's not the aspiring podcaster. Well, maybe it's. It's not the aspiring entrepreneur, but maybe it's somebody that's already kind of done something and then they want to parlay that into podcasting or podcast guesting as

Speaker B: a combination of both. Right. Like, if you're listening to. Right now here's what I figured out. And I figured out when I, when I crossed over from being the gu who was just doing podcasting, made over six figures. With podcasting as a side hustle, I started to brand manage some of the talent, some of the talent that was on my show. And what I saw was the opportunities and what was happening on the back end. And I saw that the money was coming through strategic podcast placement. And that's when the aha, uh went off. The value ad became not the guy that was having the show. The value add became being the guy on the opposite side of the microphone and being positioned as the authority to speak, to share your expertise, to share your wisdom. But it also became very lucrative. And so the value of podcast guesting is where we lean strong upon. And I think you don't have to be someone that's established that uh, has something. You might be someone that is, hey, look, I've achieved something in my life. I've had people who have had the most corporate success realizing now the value is in social media, the value is in branding themselves. And now they are out talking about it, you know, and, or they might be someone who is a bestselling author or have a new book or have a new course who obviously is a no brainer for them as well.

Speaker A: So uh, we, me, I mentioned earlier that I wanted to come back to the idea of being selfish as a, with the podcasting. And this is something that, you know, I used to make jokes. I used to kind of have this like half awkward joke I would make on a podcast sometimes where I'd be talking to somebody and I'd be like, listen, you know, let's be honest, I'm um, you're basically here so I can get an hour of free consulting, right? Because, and, and it always, it's always funny because it's like it's implied because usually people are coming on to talk about their expertise. And when you have an opportunity to sit down with an expert, you like to get expert insights, right?

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: But it really is, I mean I think about the conversations I've had, you know, uh, I feel like uh, like right now we're, we're growing a SaaS business within my world. I've literally had Dan Martell, the guy that runs the largest SaaS founder coaching program in the world on the pod to ask him any question I want. And now I, now he's, you know, a friend of mine.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Like, uh, uh, it is crazy. So, so here you are. So, okay, commence. Uh, we got about 20 minutes left.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Commence selfish mode. Uh, you're an expert on monetizing podcasts. We've talked about the grind. I think we've alluded to the fact that a lot of succeeding in podcasting. Gary Vee talks about this too. A lot of succeeding in podcasting is just starting and not stopping and keep going because that next episode always forces that next level of creativity. All right, well, now who am I going to get on the show? And now how am I going to get him on the show? And now what am I going to talk to him about on the show? And now how is it going to diversify the impact of the show or diversify the. The concept of the show to add this guest as another facet to the offering of the show? And it's like you evolve in podcasting simply through continuing to do it, because every episode is different by definition, and that is evolution. So. So that's part A, but then for a lot of people, part B. And I will, I will say for our show, we've taken a different tack. We don't monetize this show at all. I have no ads. I never, I've never paid, and I've never been paid. I just do this show as kind of, uh, an offering, you know, an appendage of the rest of what I do. But for a lot of people, if they're going to commit to what it takes to do podcasting, they got to make money, uh, eventually. Or at least see that in the, in the distance. Right? So talk to me based on your expertise, you started to talk on it, but I wonder if you could go deeper. What do you think actually is the best way now to monetize a podcast? Hey there, it's Jeff. So real quick, I want to let you know about my text message community. I use text messages to provide unique value to the unlock your potential community. These texts could just be random thoughts. It could be letting you be the first to know about an event I'm planning, maybe giving an update on a special I'm, um, running or some free training that I host for my community. Anyway, just shoot me a text to get subscribed to the list. The number is 702-996-3926. Again, that is 702-996-3926. Let's get back to the podcast.

Speaker B: Yeah, um, give you several answers. You know, when I turned podcasting into a six figure side hustle, I did it with no ads. Um, let me say this again. I did this with no Sponsor ads. I was my own ad, you know, so. So if you're listening to this right now, you're about to start a podcast, you could be starting a podcast. Your podcast could be about. And let's just pick on the beauty industry. Maybe it's on the beauty industry. Uh, maybe you like certain things that are happening in the beauty industry. Maybe you are a hairstylist or maybe you are a barber. What you could do in that aspect, you can do several different things. You could do a, uh, three different spots where you can do promotional ads that we saw a lot of revenue come from. The number one spot you want to put it on is the very beginning. This is the highest ad return. The second highest ad ROI will be the middle, and the last, the least would be at the very end. So if you are back to this person who loves beauty and you're a hairstylist or a barber, and maybe you're having a show, um, and you're talking about a different hairstyles, maybe you have the very first ad, it might actually be a product that you actually use for some of your clients, and that becomes the very first thing you talk about. This product that you love so much that you created, or perhaps you didn't create it at all, and you're looking at affiliate income. The second ad, uh, that could be positioned there could be, maybe it might be them getting their actual hair done by you, right? So you could then potentially talk about what the different styles that you offer and then could potentially have a consultation and could do it. The last advertising spot, it could be a company, you know, especially in the beauty world, uh, especially in the urban world. I remember getting my haircut as a kid and there used to be so many people that want to just come in and start selling their products. Could be their colognes, it could be their dvd, all type of stuff. You know, there might be people you may know in a small business nearby you that would love to support you and put money in your pocket by just talking about them on your show. And then at that point, it's a numbers game. How much do you want to make, how much you want to break it down to? And then you just go ahead and shop it. Um, that's the fast way to do it. The next way to do it is you start to really make some noise. You start to actually have some stats, some downloads, and then you could then position yourself to go after certain companies. You know, there's a lot of advertisement dollars from like BetterHelp and all these different companies. That you got the numbers in a data in the back end, you could then go down that route as well.

Speaker A: Yeah, it seems like if it comes to sponsored advertising, a really big element is, is being pretty clear about who your audience is. So that, so that when you go to the advertiser, I'll use like, um, I listen to like the Jordan Peterson podcast for example, and they're always pitching gold. Like there's, he seems to have an advertiser on every. And, and uh, you know, there have been podcasts over the years. I've listened to that. They're always pitching gold. And I realize it's because I tend to listen to people that are, you know, pro free markets, pro economic liberty, tend to have, you know, sort of like trend lean conservative on values. And that audience is clearly an audience that's been identified as more prone to shift some of their resources out of the mainstream financial system and into like more off book type assets like gold. And pretty soon they'll probably have bitcoin ads on, on the Jordan Peterson podcast, you know, stuff like that. But it's, but it's clear that whoever's managing his pod knows who his audience is and has pitched it to certain types of advertisers on that basis. You know, ditto. Uh, you can hear it with the guys. I listen to Joe Rogan, you can hear it with Tim Ferriss. Like, Tim Ferriss, he. That people know that his audience is people that are into all of his hack life, hacking, biohacking, tools of titans kind of stuff. He's always mentioned how to get better sleep, how to get, you know, cleaner, cleaner nutrition. Like, but it's because they've, they didn't just grow a big podcast, they grew a big, uh, podcast with at least some theoretical avatar of an audience type.

Speaker B: Yeah, that is perfect. The avatar is perfect for certain brands. Right? You're talking about performance habits. I mean, just hearing you, I'm like, okay, cool. I wonder if Tim has he. She probably does. If he doesn't. His team is trash. He should probably have some sort of deal. Uh, but like aura, uh. Oh no, there's no sleep.

Speaker A: He has a sleep eight I think is his.

Speaker B: Is it a ring or something?

Speaker A: No, sleep aid is a mattress. But yeah, you're right. He should have a ring.

Speaker B: Maybe he should have a ring. He should have. I mean, if I was behind him. I mean, come on, we got to go get the ring. You know, those opportunities are in line for him.

Speaker A: But, but I like what you said because you know, the sponsored ads, I Mean that's a strategy for an established show with download metrics and an audience metrics. Um, but that first way that you presented it of like think of the podcast as the tip of your own spear where, where you're able to get your, you know, your pre roll ad is maybe an affiliate product, your mid roll ad is your own offer. Your, your, your exit ad is I don't know, maybe it's something that promotes virality or leaving a review or. I forget what you.

Speaker B: Yeah, I hear. I, I'll give another way too man, because I've done this. I'll uh, give another too. I've, I've literally, I literally have had podcasts make money before an episode even releases. Um, um, and, and so here's another way you could easily do it. You know, if you're someone listening to this let' advocate, let's say you're someone who actually has a, ah, decent size social media. You've been working on your social media for a while. You've gotten a good, substantial amount of followers, you got a good amount of engagement. You know, you're able at that point to utilize the social media data and analytics to then say to go out to maybe potentially a company or potentially a CEO or potentially someone who's about to release a book and you can position your, your podcast to actually have an in person element and you could charge them and give him a whole episode. I've seen it done. I made $6,000 for a client one time off the strength of the social media that she created. She had a podcast that had already was going to feature amount of people and a person who wanted people to learn about his book. Right. So those are other ways as well and looking at tying in different elements that you may have already working for. You just haven't exercised them.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's really powerful. I um, Talk to me a little bit about the, the personal growth that you've experienced through the process of podcasting for as long as you have.

Speaker B: Oh man. The personal growth and I'm pretty sure you resonate with this is once you have heard information, it's another thing. But once you have actually seen some of the stuff, it changes your life. I, I did a podcast, uh, a podcast series uh, with one of our clients and, and she shot this podcast uh, in hills, rented out a mansion, an Airbnb mansion. And it was one of the things I did was I, I'm also known for bringing out a cool, a lot of cool people. I brought out like Clinton Sparks. You may have Heard of him?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I've had Clinton on the show.

Speaker B: That's my guy. I was talking to him yesterday, you know, but. But what, what changed for me was as they're doing the podcast or recording the podcast, I'm looking at the background, Jeff, and the backgrounds just look like paradise. And all this is happening because of podcasting.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, and so now your, your mind, the personal growth is like, oh, snap, I gotta go all in. Oh man, this is the tip of the iceberg. This is a lot more to come with this, you know, So I would say over the years, all of the exposure, all of the conversations, all things I've visually seen, I could never go back. Could never go back.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's a really. I mean, man, you know, they say you are the company you keep, and to some degree you are also by extension the environment of the company you keep.

Speaker B: For sure.

Speaker A: Because you connect remotely with someone. If you're doing a remote podcast, it's a portal into their world.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: And so, you know, even right now, like, I feel like, like I'm in, I'm in your office. You know, I did a podcast a couple weeks ago with a, a lady that sold her fintech company for a billion dollars. Opened up a new fintech company.

Speaker B: Sounds like Scenira.

Speaker A: Yeah, it was.

Speaker B: She's our, she's one of our clients too. Good.

Speaker A: Okay. So awesome. You probably booked her on my show. I'm great. But I'm sitting there doing the podcast and she's in her conference room at her new place at her office. And it's like. And you know, I think I'm on episode 350 now or something. It's like 350 times where I've been in a conference room of a billion dollar fintech sounder. I've been in the home office of, uh, Ed Mylett. You know, I've done a pod, like we mentioned the pod with Grant, where it's not. And I remember when I was on with Grant, where wasn't just, oh, I'm talking to Grant, but in the background I could see his whole operation. They're like people running around. He's got big TEDx on the wall. It's crazy, you know, and I think about all these hundreds of people that, you know, that, you know, where I've, I've connected with artists and they're in their studio and you can see their instruments around them and you can see their awards on, on their walls. And like you, you end up like, I feel like I've been in 350 places with 350amazing people, doing 350 inspiring things, having 350, you know, scaled positive impacts in the world. If you are the company you keep, then I am getting better because I simply keep showing up to do this.

Speaker B: Facts, man. It is one of the most rewarding things that you'll ever do. You know, there, there, there, um. There's so many things you do throughout the day. You're like, oh, that was cool. But then you think about like, hey, I really enjoyed that. I'll tell you a man, uh, I'll take it to another level for you, man. Imagine some of those people you're talking about, right? Imagine when you start, like. Cause I've seen this is where another thing that shift everything for me. Imagine when you start having dinner with him. And imagine when you start going to, like, a bar with them. Or imagine if you go to an environment and it's just, y'. All. It's the craziest thing of all time. The conversations, the access and everything. You will never be the same. You know what I mean? You just would never be the same, you know? When I interviewed Ed, ah, Marlette. He paused his private jet to enter, to stay, to sit down longer in an interview. I actually miss. Look, take it a little higher. This power of proximity. That's what Ed taught me that changed my life. And I still text him to this day. Proximity changes everything. That's what he told me back then and still sticks with me. But even then, I was having such a good time, man. I actually was late for my second interview, which was with David Meltzer. And, um, I was supposed to go to, like, an office for David. The power, proximity. I told Ed I missed it. Ed picked up the phone. Jeff, he sent David, this is 2019. He sent him a voice note and he said, hey, man, I just interviewed with this guy, Sean Anthony. He's phenomenal, man. You should really figure out a way to interview with him. And granted, at this point, I was late my phone at this time, David, he never had my number. Don't know how he got it. At that time, he called me. I mean, I went from doing an interview at, uh, his office to leaving Ed Mylett's house the same exact day, taking an Uber and going to David's house with his family, um, and did a podcast there. We've had a relationship for years. Ended up eating dinner with his family that same night. And, uh, we're still tight. So proximity changes everything. And what podcasting does. It gives you, the proximity, whether virtual or whether in person, to shift your life.

Speaker A: Yeah, and it's really like, you know, because we, in my world, we have a platform called Entre. The audience all knows this, so it's, this isn't me pitching, this is telling them what they already know. But we have a platform called Entre. And in Entre, you come in, you take this assessment, and then we map based on the assessment. It's kind of like eharmony for people that want to do something entrepreneurial. We match them with the right type of entrepreneurship. And one of the newest things that we're putting into the marketplace is podcasting. So, so we're, we're trying to develop and then we have to, whenever we have a new opportunity, we have to weave it back into the assessment. Uh, we developed the assessment with a PhD psychologist. So it's like, we gotta work, we gotta reverse engineer the psychographic profile of a person that would be suitable for the recommendation to start a podcast. And so it's a really been a really interesting exercise to figure out, like, who, who can we responsibly say, hey, as part of your entrepreneurship, we encourage you to consider starting a podcast. Right? And so a couple things come to mind. One is it's gotta be long term. Thinkers like, you do not start a podcast for what it's gonna do for you in the next six months. Uh, honestly, you really don't start a podcast because of what it's gonna do for you at all. You start podcasts because of what it's gonna allow you to do for others. And you trust the process that over a long enough time horizon of consistency, all these amazing opportunities will start, these doors will start to open as a result of the output of effort. But you cannot at all predict. I mean, like you, you never could have predict. It's not like in 2018, you're like, I'm gonna start a podcast today so that two years from now I can have dinner with David Meltzer and his family. Like, you never know how long and winding road is gonna go, but you have to trust that process. But you have to be the type of person that can't and that can give without getting in return, except on an extremely delayed timeline. And you're willing to trust yourself in the meantime and not get up, give up and quit because you're not getting your needs met right now.

Speaker B: You know, I learned though, man, um, if it's calling for you, it's for you. And I've never, I've never seen, um,

Speaker A: are you A religious guy, I would say. I'm, um. Yeah. I mean, the word religion comes from the Latin word for bondage. So I don't like the word.

Speaker B: Huh.

Speaker A: But I believe deeply in Jesus Christ, my Lord and savior.

Speaker B: Oh, I love that. I love how you said that, too. You know the reason why I say that, man? You know, listen, man, I'm just telling you, man. Um, this is. I don't know the exact scripture. I just know when I heard it and I heard it from someone and I heard in the songs, and it made so much sense, man. And, um. And the words was, I've never seen the righteous forsaken. And it stuck with me. I'm like, if you have a desire to do something, you need to pursue it. And if something is telling you not to do it, it's the people around you. And if the people around you are telling you not to do it, you need to get a new set of friends. Uh, you know, when I started podcasting, man, podcasting was corny. Podcasting, no one knew what it was. People like Sean, why even want to talk on a microphone. It was extremely, uniquely different. You know, the very first podcast guest we had on that took the show to a completely different level was in episode seven. I was watching a show called New York, Million Dollar Listing. And one of my favorite people was Ryan Serhan. Ryan Serhan said, sean, let's do the podcast. At that particular time, he was launching a book. He gave me his phone number, told me, hey, do I want to come to New York? I didn't go to New York. Cause I'm like, that point. I'm only episode seven. I don't even know how serious this thing is. I don't know. Set up right. But that podcast and that interview shifted everything because he was recording, and when he was recording it, he put it on his YouTube. And the entire episode, you can go look at it. It was called, um, f. The Money and the whole thing. I named the podcast episode that he gave me a snippet man of, you should go to school. And how it's not about the money and how it's about the way he's set in this uniquely way. And his YouTube was already bigger than the show, obviously. We all know he has his own shows, own books, everything now. Um, and I woke up the next morning and I saw people. I saw people commenting that night, hey, who is he talking to? Who is he giving all this game to? And I comment. I said, hey, look, you want to listen to this episode? You can check it out with Ryan. I put the link up. Ryan penned the comment. I woke up the next day. Jeff, that podcast had over 75,000 downloads. Changed everything, you know, so, you know, I. I think about what would have happened had I had listened to other people. Other people will say why you want to start that you should get a co host, why you wanted to be called schools over. Now what, man? If I listen to them, none of the stuff we're talking about, whatever had

Speaker A: happened and, and so that happened for you on episode 7.

Speaker B: 7.

Speaker A: I'll use a different example of a. Of kind of a growth catalyst. For me, I had, uh. I have about 110,000 Instagram followers. About 108,000 of those came from five reels. That's crazy.

Speaker B: I.

Speaker A: That I dropped about two years ago. And the first one. And they all that for whatever reason, they. They caught favor from the Instagram gods and went by, you know, 1 to 2 million views each.

Speaker B: You.

Speaker A: And, um. But the first reel that caught fire, over a million views was my 281st. No, I'm sorry, I flipped two numbers. 218th reel. So 217 reels. Basically crickets.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: 218th reel somehow got me on Instagram's radar. And four of the next hundred reels also got on the radar and blew up. And. And now that's an audience that I've been able. And admittedly it's kind of deteriorated and I need to refresh and figure some stuff out. But for, uh, a point, I mean, I probably got six figures out of five reels.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Indirectly through people finding me, finding our stuff. Go, you know, swimming upstream through the funnel, whatever. But like, the. The point is, if. If I had listened, let's say I had stopped at 200 reels or. You had stopped at six episodes.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's right.

Speaker A: And you don't know if it's going to be the seventh episode or the 200th episode, but I can guarantee you, if you stop, It'll never happen.

Speaker B: 100% agree with that. You know, and then at that point, you know, now you have. Everything else is leverage right now. You got the followers, you have more people to speak to. At that particular time, I utilized everything Ryan had created, and it led me from Ryan Serhant to like Chris Drama path to. Then it just keeps on to more and more people. More and more people, you know, and

Speaker A: what else can the can call it? The average person. I mean, a person who doesn't already have some big established pedigree thing. What else could we do to Gradually incrementally work our way into these circles, into this type of exposure, into, to your point, being able to piggyback and springboard off of the decades of work of a. Of someone like Ryan Sirhan or Sirhan or Ed Milette or. Great. I mean, I don't actually know if there's another thing. I mean, maybe if you write a book and you work your way into the speaking circuit with your book as your business card, and then eventually you start networking in the green rooms and get on bigger and bigger stages, but that's a lot more expensive way to do it, because every one of those gigs you got to travel to, and you're probably doing it for free for the first 50 of them. Whereas podcasting. How else could you build the equivalent of what we've built through a podcast without having to front a bunch of financial risk, without having to go out into the world pretending to be someone you're not, or claiming something you've really never done? Like, it's kind of. It's almost like a. An organic hack to grow without having to spend money.

Speaker B: 100, you know, and that. That minimum investment that you probably will make, uh, for like, microphone setup software and all that, it's gonna be worth it, man. It's gonna be worth it. You know, And I think people have to think about it from a different angle, too, though. That's not necessarily connecting with the Ryan Sirhan. So the Ed Mylets, the first step is connect with people that they're familiar with. That will then allow for you to connect with them.

Speaker A: That's a really good point. For every ed Mylett, there's 20 people that are connected to Ed that aren't as expensive or hard to get. And you get to a few of them, and then they talk. And, I mean, uh, this isn't all about how to become friends with Ed Mylett, or else I would name those people's names. I mean, we know the people that got that door open indirectly.

Speaker B: Hey, Melissa. I'll tell you this, though, Jeff. They're not dumb. They know. They say it. So when I was going. When I was at Ed House and I was going down, you know, you watch YouTube videos, you see these two couches, you're like, man, those are nice couches. But you don't know. It takes a very long time to get there. And so you're walking down all these staircases and everything, and you're going down, and there's a lot of talk to get to those spots. And one of the very first things he said was, yeah, man, I was looking at your show, all the reviews, and, man, you done. We done had a lot of the same people on, and we. And he just name drops probably about five or seven people who we've both been in contact with, and they're doing their research, and it's important to do that.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, I think it's. I think that for. For people and, you know, the.

Speaker B: The.

Speaker A: The metaphor. I'll go ahead and share it. That came to mind. If you're like, okay, am I a person that will win at the game of podcasting? I'll ask you this. If you've seen the show Squid Game, did you immediately go out? Man, I would be one of the first people taking out. I would have. I would have lost on red light, green light. Or are you like, man, I would never want to play that because I don't want to be around that much death. But if it came down to it, I'd go the distance. Yeah. If you're that guy, start a podcast. Uh, because it literally is Squid Game right now. Today, there are 500 people starting a podcast, and if you're just the last man standing, you'll win.

Speaker B: Oh, for sure, man. A hundred percent.

Speaker A: So I'm going to end by giving you the last word. Um, something that you would like to share with the audience. And, of course, also, please invite the audience to come deeper into your world and share anything that you have to share.

Speaker B: Yeah. I think right now, what you have to do if you're listening to this is that you need to realize that you have something to say, and people need to hear it come out of your mouth. And at the same time, you have to realize that now more than ever, it's time for you to be the authority, not the minority. And you have to look at podcasting as the tool to do that. Beyond you just having your own show in 2025, the real value is you getting on the opposite side of that microphone and telling people about everything that you got going on. And that's how you really expand yourself. So, um, that's my message. I want everyone to always remember, dream it, believe it, go out and get it. If you enjoyed anything I've ever said today, uh, you can follow me at Sean R. Anthony underscore on all platforms, and be sure to listen to the podcast at schools over now. What? But if podcasting is resonating with you today, you can go to podpromax.com.

Speaker A: that's beautiful. I'm gonna. I'm gonna echo Something you just said about minority versus authority, that in statistics, the opposite of the minority is the majority. In mindset, the opposite of the minority is the authority. And that's something anybody can choose. It's not a demographic. It's a, uh, it's a mental state. And you can choose it. Man, thank you so much for being a phenomenal guest and as it turns out, a phenomenal host.

Speaker B: Appreciate you, man.

Speaker A: Yeah, of course. And of course to all you viewers and listeners, you know what I'm going to say, thanks so much for being here. You are the best part of this show. Even when Sean Anthony's on, you're why we do it. And I'm so glad we got this time together. Take care, everyone. Hey, it's Jeff here. So if you liked this episode of Unlock, um, your potential, it would mean so much if you would like and share the episode on whatever platform you're listening or viewing on. And if you really like what we're doing here and you enjoy this podcast each week, please consider leaving us a review. There is so much work that goes into these episodes, and you leaving a positive review lets us know that our work is reaching people and it helps us grow our audience. In fact, your review could be the reason that someone else decides to tune in, checks out the podcast and unlocks their potential, levels up their entire quality of life. So thank you, thank you. Thank you again so much for your support and for listening and especially if you like or share or leave us a review. Thank you in general for just helping us spread the word. And thank you for unlocking your potential and going out and making the world and your world a better place.